House Judiciary Committee Majority Report on Constitutional Grounds for Presidential Impeachment (Dec 2019)
The Foreward by Mr. Nadler contains the following disclaimer:
The views and conclusions contained in the report are staff views and do not necessarily reflect those of the Committee on the Judiciary or any of its members.
#1: nolu chan To: All (#0)
By a stroke of good fortune I just happen to have a copy of Black and Bobbitt's Impeachment, and I am able to complete the quote.
That was sure some fine editing by the Majority staff.
As a note for those not acquainted with the "authors" of this book, it was not jointly authored.
Charles L. Black Jr. was a preeminent legal scholar whose short work on impeachment is considered a classic. Part I of this book and ends at page 61. That copyright is from 1974.
Phillip Bobbitt, a nephew of LBJ, is a less eminent legal scholar. He wrote Part II of this book, which is appended to the classic work of Charles Black, and goes from page 65 to page 162, copyright 2018.
Phillip Bobbitt is known for being the then 63 year old Columbia law school professor who married a young lady (Justice Kagan presiding at SCOTUS) who stopped being one of his 3-L students when the relationship became known.
The Bobbitt maid/nanny (Sophia Samuels) sued the Bobbitts this year for violations of minimum and overtime wages, spread-of-hours pay, untimely payment of wages, and notice and record-keeping requirements.
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/13585162/1/samuels-v-bobbitt/
Samuels v. Bobbitt, SDNY 1:19-cv-00576 (20 Jan 2019) Doc 1 COMPLAINT
https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/26774329/Samuels_v_Bobbitt_et_al
The Docket Report indicates the case was settled on 31 May 2019.
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-07 21:15:06 Reply Private Reply
#2: Hondo68 To: nolu chan, Impeach and Remove, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#1)
President Donnell prefers to ignore the Constitution and spin some shuck 'n jive on the Sean Hannity show.
Hondo68 posted on 2019-12-07 22:01:41 Reply Private Reply
#3: nolu chan To: Hondo68 (#2)
Footnote 228 reads, "228 Black & Bobbitt, Impeachment, at 9."
Fortunately, I just happen to have that book, among others. Sloppy ass incompetent crap. The quote starts at 8, not 9.
Here, the missing material between the two quotes is "(Indeed, I shall argue later that they do not apply even in the Senate trial.)" Theoretically correct, but as a matter of fact, unless the Senate Rules are changed, strict rules of evidence will continue to apply as they have for a few centuries.
But in that faithful old government publication of Rules of Evidence in an Impeachment Trial, it states: [boldface as in original]
When they get out of that "fact-finding stage," and get into the trial stage, none of the hearsay or less than "best evidence" comes in. The Republican led Senate is highly unlikely to waive centuries of precedent to help Sloppy Jerry avoid disaster.
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nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 00:57:01 Reply Private Reply
#4: nolu chan To: All (#0)
Majority Report at 21-22:
Viewed from the perspective of reality, the radical nutbags of that time viewed Andrew Johnson's motives as illegitimate and not in accord with their personal desires, but they did not attempt to impeach upon alleged improper motives because they recognized that alleged improper motives to act legally was not an impeachable offense.
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 12:35:36 Reply Private Reply
#5: nolu chan To: All (#0)
If what the hearsay and nonsense they have presented thus far represents a full development of the facts, they have no case.
Professor Turley accurately describes this legislative circus as a Fast and Furious Impeachment.
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 12:43:17 Reply Private Reply
#6: nolu chan To: All (#0)
The citation to Black and Bobbitt at their page 18 should consider that said book did not necessarily recite the reality of the way things are or ever were, but the opinion of the author about the way things ought to be.
Consider the way things ought to be at the very next page. Who believes Congress could possibly adopt this point, from page 19, without invoking outrage:
As for the Gearhart claim in footnote 231 that, "they would not be enforceable against or binding on individual senators, each of whom traditionally has had the discretion in an impeachment trial to follow any evidentiary standards he or she sees fit," no individual senator can decide whether evidence is admitted or excluded. The Chief Justice will decide, but his decision can be overriden by a majority vote of the senators. If Gearhart is attempting to say that the senators, acting as jurors, can engage in behavior akin to jury nullification, yeah, they can. As in the case of jury nullification, they can choose to ignore the law or the rules and enjoy immunity from penalty. That does not mean the law or rules do not apply, or that they would not violate their oath, it means only that they would be immune from penalty for having done so.
It is a strange position for a constitutional lawyer to argue.
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 13:30:47 Reply Private Reply
#7: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#0)
If Drumpf is so "concerned" about corrption in Ukraine, why isn't he applying international pressure to expedite Firtash's extradition and prosecution?
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 13:34:35 Reply Private Reply
#8: nolu chan To: All (#0)
At page 36, the majority gives footnote 198 as follows:
I guess Trump's somewhat jesting remark was correct. We know that a sitting president can't be indicted. If one believes this footnote, neither can he be impeached for violating a state criminal law. It would appear that if Trump ran into Shifty Schiff in Virginia or Maryland, or maybe Sloppy Jerry on Fifth Avenue in NYC, and shot him in the head, causing anal failure and death, he could neither be indicted nor impeached. Who knew?
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 13:50:31 Reply Private Reply
#9: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#8)
Oh, well that must be why impeachment is a political process - not a criminal prosecution.
Criminal prosecution can come later, though.
Do you think Firtash will get Epstiened before he gets extradited?
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 13:54:05 Reply Private Reply
#10: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#8)
Maybe Drumpf is now wishing he'd tested his theory by shooting Lev and Rudy in the head.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/lev-parnas-handed-over-tapes-of-trump-and-giuliani-to-the-house-intelligence-committee-917769/
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 14:04:30 Reply Private Reply
#11: nolu chan To: Peromischievous leucopus (#7)
Who is Firtash? Your mother?
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 14:36:32 Reply Private Reply
#12: nolu chan To: Peromischievous leucopus, A K A Stone (#10)
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 14:38:04 Reply Private Reply
#13: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#11)
Maybe if your head wasn't so far up your and/or Trump's vociferously opinionated, arrogant, and flatulent arse - you'd have an actual clue.
"1. (S) Summary and Comment: Controversial Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash, best known as co-owner of gas intermediary RosUkrEnergo (RUE)..."
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08KYIV2414_a.html
search.wikileaks.org/?q=Firtash
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 14:44:05 Reply Private Reply
#14: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#12)
Didn't you get that memo?
{ shrug } Maybe the Drumpf cult doesn't remember how much he loved Wikileaks
There. Fixed that.
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 14:57:15 Reply Private Reply
#15: nolu chan To: Peromischievous leucopus, A K A Stone (#14)
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 15:01:47 Reply Private Reply
#16: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#15)
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 15:03:56 Reply Private Reply
#17: nolu chan To: Peromischievous leucopus (#16)
When they get out of that "fact-finding stage," and get into the trial stage, none of the hearsay or less than "best evidence" comes in. The Republican led Senate is highly unlikely to waive centuries of precedent to help Sloppy Jerry avoid disaster.
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nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 15:06:02 Reply Private Reply
#18: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#17)
Do Fearless Leader and his cult of Log Cabin Pipe Fitters/Pizza Pedophiles not LOVE wikileaks anymore?
search.wikileaks.org/?q=Firtash
Lots of evidence there. Odd how his/their/your "concern" over Ukrainian corruption seems to, conveniently, miss that.
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-08 15:20:03 Reply Private Reply
#19: nolu chan To: Peromischievous leucopus (#18)
Speaking of evidence....
From Rules of Evidence in an Impeachment Trial:
nolu chan posted on 2019-12-08 23:46:42 Reply Private Reply
#20: Judas Goat To: nolu chan (#19)
All Fearless Leader and his cult have in their game is to pray your base of 3rd graders can be mesmerized by "process" distraction. That'd be because all the actual EVIDENCE is weighing against him and the Odessa cockroach herd.
Judas Goat posted on 2019-12-09 12:52:39 Reply Private Reply