between Boston's rock lyrics and Ozzy's, Boston's lyrics do not promote a blatant brand of evil and depression, the worship of Satan, or promoting suicide like Black Sabbath (Ozzy was sued FOR causing actual suicides, wasn't he?)

You are making stuff up. You ask so here are some Ozzy Black Sabbath lyrics.

"After Forever"

Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved? Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you? Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool? Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool? Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say If they knew you believe in God above? They should realize before they criticize that God is the only way to love

Is your mind so small that you have to fall In with the pack wherever they run Will you still sneer when death is near And say they may as well worship the sun?

I think it was true it was people like you that crucified Christ I think it is sad the opinion you had was the only one voiced Will you be so sure when your day is near, say you don't believe? You had the chance but you turned it down, now you can't retrieve

Perhaps you'll think before you say that God is dead and gone Open your eyes, just realize that he's the one The only one who can save you now from all this sin and hate Or will you still jeer at all you hear? Yes! I think it's too late.

I don't recall that song but remember the song title. Is it from a movie?

So...does it bother you that Ozzy and Black Sabbath (by their very band name) routinely mock the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ in their music, by appearance? They don't even hide it.

You mean this founder of Black Sabbath Tony Iommi. You're an idiot.

Believe what you want. Ignore what you want. You have free will.

I don't believe people who don't know what they are talking about. That would be you.

And you didn't show me that Jesus is Saviour site. I knew about that for over a decade.

I recall something about a splinter and an eye.

Believe what you want. Ignore what you want. You have free will.

Who is the one ignoring. You are. Here is another founding member.

In a brand new interview with The Weeklings, BLACK SABBATH bassist Geezer Butler was asked if he got any backlash over SABBATH singing a message of repentance and God being the only way to love on the "Master Of Reality" album.

"No," he responded. "People always like to find the 'evil' in the music, so they'd quote the 'pope on a rope' part out of context, as usual. People like to find negative in everything. We weren't interested in writing songs about the 'nice' things in the world; everyone else was writing about that. We wanted to inject some reality into music. I think if we'd been called WHITE SUNDAY we'd have had a totally different reaction.

Butler also talked about his thought process behind writing the lyrics to the SABBATH song "After Forever", which some historians have called the first real Christian rock song.

"A lot of it was because of the situation in Northern Ireland at the time," he explained. "There were a lot of religious troubles between the Protestants against the Catholics.

I'll have to listen to them again, now knowing a bit more of the background of MTAF. My feelings on them certainly won't change but I could better quantify my impression.

Your feelings or ear or impression could certainly change now that your senses are 40 years older. You focus on different things for some reason (maybe its me.)

I can't tell you how many songs I've taken a different listen to and appreciate far more now then then. (Not to mention the volume of good songs and music that fell between the cracks, never even heard. Wasn't it almost impossible to hear everything back in the late 60s, 70s-80s?)

For 41 years, I'd dismissed Boston's 'Feelin Satisfied' (second album, Side B track)...until I heard a cover band do it and heard the rest of song beyond the first over-used opening riffs. Love it. Took 41 years to appreciate it.

I read somewhere the conundrum he was in, having made great rock music songs in his basement but with no ability to put on a concert and no real bandmates. In that light, the backside description on the LP cover on that debut album is an interesting spin, so to speak, as it's a pitch to ignore the band history and "listen to the album".

Read the same. Ain't that something? Could be why once Scholtz made it with that smash first effort, he got a bit greedy. The "Band" afterall (aside from Brad Delp) was only image and for live shows on the road.

Good observation about that back side and what was basically a PR notation.

With the release of their first album, the band’s audience began to grow rapidly. Terrence became known as Geezer while the rest of the band became known for their ‘dark’ music. One night, Ozzy and the band were approached by a self-proclaimed witch and were asked to play at a satanic ceremony. The band declined the offer. Feeling deprived at this, the witch cast a spell on the band. Being paranoid, Ozzy asked his dad to make aluminum crosses for each member of the band to wear as protection. Bill Ward said that he is the only member who still has the original cross. The cross Ozzy wears now is made of 14 carat gold.

These guys can't cover up this mess with "This is the troof, those "satanist" stories are lies and just crazy BS!" stories.

And most certainly, neither can Ozzy hide the truth. Dude, the guy is a satanist and occultist, into magic and spell. Look at the symbols and upside down crosses; The Baphomet horns.

He loved Satanist Alistair Crowley so much, he devoted an entire song to him. To be so in denial and delusional about the truth is insane.

I always liked you but thought you were kind of slow.

Now you're just a judgmental prick who isn't to bright.

Flattard.

The name of Black Sabbath's Best-Of compilation could have been anything, but they chose THAT??

Come on, man.

I can't tell you how many songs I've taken a different listen to and appreciate far more now then then. (Not to mention the volume of good songs and music that fell between the cracks, never even heard. Wasn't it almost impossible to hear everything back in the late 60s, 70s-80s?)

No, one thing I've noticed about myself is that my opinion of a particular song never changes. Songs I liked and disliked as a teen I still like and dislike today. I like to think it speaks well about my musical maturity as a teen.

I'm a big fan now of epic music which didn't exist back then, except perhaps as a foreshadowing in the music of Mason William's "Classical Gas", or Ennio Morricone's famous tune from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

If you want a real ride, check this out. Two Steps from Hell. I've mentioned Thomas Bergerson to you before. Here's "Victory". Just know that if it's the first time you've heard it and you don't have your stereo totally cranked, it's a crime against humanity. Just so you know.

Can't talk about GB&U music without this brilliant piece as well by Ennio Morricone: "Ecstasy of Gold":

Boston: promotes fornication, wild immoral parties, drug abuse, indifference, smoking pot,

So, basically not any different than any other rock band?

...lead singer commit suicide in March 2007...

So? How is that the band's fault?

Believe what you want. Ignore what you want. You have free will.

Butler also talked about his thought process behind writing the lyrics to the SABBATH song "After Forever", which some historians have called the first real Christian rock song.

Not even close.

I'm a big fan now of epic music which didn't exist back then, except perhaps as a foreshadowing in the music of Mason William's "Classical Gas",

I always liked that song.

Boston: promotes fornication, wild immoral parties, drug abuse, indifference, smoking pot, So, basically not any different than any other rock band?

...lead singer commit suicide in March 2007...

So? How is that the band's fault?

I just used the same source liberator used to condemn Oozy. Showing him to be a hypocrite.

I just used the same source liberator used to condemn Oozy. Showing him to be a hypocrite.

So...that source is wrong about Ozzy but right about Boston?

I don't think Liberator is the hypocrite here.

I don't think Liberator is the hypocrite here.

Well you're dumb than.

I don't think Liberator is the hypocrite here.

Well you're dumb than.

Stone, you really need to stop antagonizing allies like Liberator and me.

Just let it go - pretty much every rock band is un-Christian when you actually look.

Let's not go to a holy war over this.

Stone, you really need to stop antagonizing allies like Liberator and me.

Just let it go - pretty much every rock band is un-Christian when you actually look.

Let's not go to a holy war over this.

I posted my opinion about Boston. I like them I don't love them.

Liberators source is what I posted later.

Liberator isn't my ally. He is a kook who thinks the earth is flat.

He isn't my enemy either.

Liberator isn't my ally. He is a kook who thinks the earth is flat.

So what? I'm a kook for not believing the official 9/11 story and believing Oswald didn't act alone.

I think David Icke is correct on a number of things.

You're a "kook" too.

As far as the flat earth theory - again, so what? Who cares?

Could be why once Scholtz made it with that smash first effort, he got a bit greedy. The "Band" afterall (aside from Brad Delp) was only image and for live shows on the road.

I'd bet that extreme perfectionists wouldn't have the patience to put up with real, human band members.

I'm a big fan now of epic music which didn't exist back then, except perhaps as a foreshadowing in the music of Mason William's "Classical Gas", or Ennio Morricone's famous tune from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

See? Your ear IS changing! (Or maybe how you process music. It's happened to me as well. Normal stuff.

The 'Victory' epic music is strongly reminiscent of 'The Good, Bad and Ugly'. Love that stuff.

Just know that if it's the first time you've heard it and you don't have your stereo totally cranked, it's a crime against humanity. Just so you know.

HA! yeah, I kinda cranked it :-)

Bravo!

Man, one of THE best guitarists ever.

(really nice rendition of Classical Gas, featuring Glen)

Miklos Rozsa is another of the epic flim score composers.

He composed quite a few of the Bible Movie epics and scores of the 1950s and early 1960s (Ben-Hur, King of Kings, El Cid, Quo Vadis)

Here is the London Symphony Orchestra doing an awesome rendition of Rozsa's Ben-Hur:

"He loved Satanist Alistair Crowley...

As did Jimmy Page, LedZep guitarist extraordinaire and the keystone to my favorite band of all time. Love the talent, not the bizarre anti-religion personal journeys...MUD

Of course, 'Turn Turn Turn' uses Ecclesiastes for its lyrics Id always associated 'Jesus Is Just Alright' with the Doobie Bros version.

Just a few others:

'Get Together' (The Youngbloods)

'Spirit in the Sky' (Norman Greenbaum)

'Put Your Hand In The Hand' (Ocean)

Hard to find live version:

Above is the late Dan Peek's ('America') Christian version of 'Lonely People'. He quit America over his beliefs.

Read Dan Peek's book/bio. Inspirational account and story of his faith.

Regads, Mr. Yeltsin, and BSOT**!!

**Be Safe Out There

Regards...MUD

("He loved Satanist Alistair Crowley...)

As did Jimmy Page, LedZep guitarist extraordinaire and the keystone to my favorite band of all time. Love the talent, not the bizarre anti-religion personal journeys...

You're absolutely spot on, Mud.

Page even bought Alistair Crowley's castle/house in England as his own.

Yup, Page and Zep were/are also Satanists. Jimmy Page has even described his creation process and inspiration as being a shared process. (read into the "fine print")

Talented, yes. On loan from WHOM? ;-) I can still enjoy some of Zep's work but not all of it for obvious reasons.

Many talented bands unfortunately have declared allegiance to their "god"; (and it ain't OURS.) Like...The Beatles....Stones...yes, quite a few sing homages to the Devil himself (Stones, Van Halen, AC/DC, etal etal...)

I'd bet that extreme perfectionists wouldn't have the patience to put up with real, human band members.

Makes perfect sense.

Probably annoyed Scholtz to no end. And...maybe even himself.

Pretty much every rock band is un-Christian when you actually look.

There seem to be degrees and delineations. Some are hard core, others more subtle.

Some bands make it a point or matter of branding to advance and promote demonic/satanist symbolism, messaging, and programming.

And...some of the branding and symbolism combined with the music and lyrics serve as mental imprinting devices at a subconscious level. It is actually insidious. "Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll." Teens begin relating to the whole package.

Is some of the music good? Of course. That's what makes it so effective at subversion.

Your taste in music probably is very similar and over-lapping to many here. Mud, I've owned almost every Zep album fwiw.

Like Dire Straits. Have 'Second Helping' (Skynyrd).

...you are correct that my faves are ever-changing.

Mood thang.

I know a lotta people like/love 'em...

Never could get into the vocals. Or melodies. Or them. That's just me.

See? Your ear IS changing! (Or maybe how you process music. It's happened to me as well. Normal stuff.

No, not me. It's the music has come of age. I said "now" because epic music as a genre didn't exist before 5-6 years ago. It might be something that is largely enabled by the digital age as it allows a single artist to not just compose it but to create it as well.

It does resemble classical music which of course goes back centuries, and which I'm no real fan of, but which works for me much better. Maybe because percussion can be emphasized much better in a digital. But I don't know.

HA! yeah, I kinda cranked it :-)

Kinda?? You blew it, dude. hehe.

It's the music has come of age. I said "now" because epic music as a genre didn't exist before 5-6 years ago.

It might be something that is largely enabled by the digital age as it allows a single artist to not just compose it but to create it as well.

I believe you! I believe you!

If it's your own contention that you "know" your own ear is incapable of redefining or parsing past music so that your regard of it remains static (say from age 12 vs age 62), then who am I to say otherwise?

THAT said, I believe you're likely in the vast minority.

I've liked/disliked many a tune/style relative to my kiddie ear to middle age ear to...age 60+ ear. (I'd be curious about forum opinion consensus on the matter at either LF or 4um.)

With respect to the fairly new creation of the contemporary "EPIC" genre of music, true, that music has really come to age, hasn't it? Yes, it has enabled a guys like me and you to compose it, given we now have access to the digital equivalent of entire epic orchestration. Remember Yanni? And Enya from the 1990s? She did it.

Single composers can now pad glorious "epic" music with layer upon layer of different percussion and echo for maximum impact to their heart's desire :-) (Coincidentally, my son just yesterday was showing me how he'd just bought hundreds of additional digital instrumentation and sounds -- many otherworldly.)

Maybe this neo-Epic bender is about mirroring the emotion and "epic" times we're now living in. (Past "Epic" did exist in the form of the olde masters, Bach (Messiah, Mussorgsky ('Great Gate of Kiev'), Tchaikovsky (1812 Overture w/cannons); Even the newer-older Masters, like Morricone, Rozsa, John Williams, and score from 2001 Space Odyssey (orig composer, Richard Strauss end of the 19th century).

This latest new "Epic" music -- maybe best reflects...the "epic-ness" of planet earth as it can now be seen from drones and planes; Or as portrayed in Hollywood's new favorite genre: Epic Superheroes, epic inter-planetory, mega-universe super-powers, and Epic other-worldly alternative "realities." (In other words, flamingo guitar, heavy strings, piano, and harp were NOT gonna do.)

It does resemble classical music which of course goes back centuries, and which I'm no real fan of, but which works for me much better. Maybe because percussion can be emphasized much better in a digital. But I don't know.

I've found olde Classical to be a process of exploration and discovery. Some of it is so epic (But not in the context of contempo "epic" that you know and love.)

I think your observation and sense is spot on regarding the biggest difference or feature of the neo-Epics: Heavy duty, echoed, layered percussion. When paired with a videotaped fight to the death between two gnats, that kind of soundtrack could make even IT seem like an epic duel.

And then there was Yanni composing this epic:

(HA! yeah, I kinda cranked it :-)

Kinda?? You blew it, dude. hehe.

My tinnitus and blown eardrums makes it tough to get there :-)

Can't go there any more :-(

You're full of shit. Some things you said on your comment are true. Others are outright lies. Made up bullshit.

CHALLENGE:

On whatever YOU say is "bullshit" OR "made up."

Put up or shut up.

Many talented bands unfortunately have declared allegiance to their "god"; (and it ain't OURS.) Like...The Beatles....Stones...yes, quite a few sing homages to the Devil himself (Stones, Van Halen, AC/DC, etal etal...)

Bearing false witness is a sin. Kook.

It does resemble classical music which of course goes back centuries, and which I'm no real fan of, but which works for me much better. Maybe because percussion can be emphasized much better in a digital.

I wasn't quite sure exactly what you meant by the term - seems so broad, so I listened to some Epic music on YouTube, sounds like film soundtracks to me.

Seems sorta trance-inducing.

You can hear the classical influences and elements, but it sounds like something no real orchestra could do.

Would you say that Epic music takes classical music theory and uses digital techniques to make it more pompous and modern?

I don't mean pompous in a bad way - more like majestic or monumental.