I think she should have been charged, and found guilty. However the most appropriate criminal charge should have been Manslaughter. recklessly causing the death of another person.

My opinion is not swayed by her profession... but by her acts.

Okay, copsuckers, take a deep breath and swallow it all the way to the base. ...

Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article, refuse to read the rest and then whine and carp and complain to A K A.

Mr. Jury Foreman whitey will hem and haw and rant about how the guy eating ice cream was putting the cop in mortal danger with his spoon.

Neither one of them will condemn this murderous cop lady.

And that is the taste of criminally reckless police getting the same taste of justice they hand out to the public every day.

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed.

The good news here is that juries are finally starting to see through the bullshit excuse "I feared for my life.

They will house her in a special prison.

Let's all hope not.

She'll be a real popularity queen in the TX prison system!

However the most appropriate criminal charge should have been Manslaughter. recklessly causing the death of another person.

Murder and homicide charges do vary by state as we all know. And sometimes what we call murder in one state is a homicide in another or manslaughter or wrongful death in another.

Since she is convicted and can be sentenced for 5-99 years, it sounds like what most states would call second-degree murder. The most serious charge is always first-degree murder and involves premeditated murder and intent to murder someone, generally with some malice or a profit motive.

In an earlier thread with a FNC article, we learned that the jury could have convicted her of 3 different charges.

Three days after the shooting, Guyger was arrested for manslaughter. She was subsequently fired from the Dallas Police Department and charged by a grand jury. The jury will have to decide whether Guyger committed murder, a lesser offense such as manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, or no crime at all.

So the jury had a range of charges to consider. They chose the most serious one so we can be pretty sure they were unanimous on this and that no juror tried to hold out for manslaughter. We all can recall those cases where one or two jurors held out for a lesser charge and prevailed over the rest of the jury.

My opinion is not swayed by her profession... but by her acts.

Her profession probably did hurt her. She chose to serve and took an oath to execute her duties as a peace officer to enforce public safety laws.

There can be no doubt the public would have been safer if she hadn't been given a badge.

I think the jury took that out on her. A civilian walking through the wrong door because they were sexting their fellow-worker might have gotten a lesser charge. She was likely held to a higher standard because she was a cop. It could also be the case that her defense team said things that made the jury angry, trying to get her acquitted.

Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article, refuse to read the rest and then whine and carp and complain to A K A.

No doubt.

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed.

We can ruin that for him by telling him that the she-cop was a Libertarian voter. Perhaps even a Ron Paul voter.

Word.

There can be no doubt the public would have been safer if she hadn't been given a badge.

If she grew up to be a porn star, prostitute or centerfold model, the world would have been a better place. I’ve never had much use for a chick I a uniform.

If she grew up to be a porn star, prostitute or centerfold model, the world would have been a better place. I’ve never had much use for a chick I a uniform.

You have to wonder if the jury was harder on her for being a woman cop than if she were a male cop. It is possible. Maybe a male cop with the same jury would have only got the manslaughter or wrongful homicide conviction.

Hard to determine overall though. We have so few cases that we can't study them statistically. But I did think of that angle earlier. Sort of a "well, lady, if you want to be a cop, you'd better not ever shoot a citizen by mistake" kind of verdict. I like to think no jury would do that but you never know. Juries are the most dangerous and unpredictable element in the justice system.

"well, lady, if you want to be a cop, you'd better not ever shoot a citizen by mistake" kind of verdict.

I did respond once as a back up, to a female officer that was dispatched to check the welfare of some guy (that was a paranoid schizophrenic) that hasn’t answered the phone from his family for days, so one of his LAZY asshole relatives called the police to do what they were too fucking lazy to do... check on the dude.

Well, the dude was off his meds, so when the officer knocked on his apartment building door, the paranoid freak opened his door and attacked the officer with a golf club. She folded like a blanket... and cowered as she was being beat. I’d have shot the fucker.

Anyway... as officers arrived and ran up the stairs, he retreated behind his locked door. Needless to say, the door was kicked in, he resisted arrest... and his arm snapped as he was resisting the cuffing procedure.

The moral of the story, people in authority positions that often can’t physically handle situations as dangerous for them as Dicktard demands it handled, they either shoot too soon or give up and die.

I’ve seen it all.... it’s what happens when your police force is made up from the same group of humans every other profession is made from. A few winners, a few average players... and a whole lot of losers.

Anyway... as officers arrived and ran up the stairs, he retreated behind his locked door. Needless to say, the door was kicked in, he resisted arrest... and his arm snapped as he was resisting the cuffing procedure.

The moral of the story, people in authority positions that often can’t physically handle situations as dangerous for them as Dicktard demands it handled, they either shoot too soon or give up and die.

Your story brings to mind that case a few years back where a female jailer was caught in a stairwell or hallway without a camera and she got beaten and raped.

I had to wonder at the time if her attacker got more leniency, less leniency or if it made no difference that she was a female jailer and not a male jailer (who probably wouldn't have been raped even if he did get beaten). You never know what those jurors are really thinking; you just hear their verdict.

Like I said, these cases are rare enough with women jailers and women cops that it's hard to assemble statistics or case studies to prove anything about them in general.

Finding that someone has posted an article with a fabricated lie is no “minor issue.”

Give it up freakshow. You lost.

You STILL haven't commented on the numerous lies the cops told while trying to frame an innocent man.

Which is worse - a headline that may not have come true yet and was expressing a likely outcome, or lying costumed thugs violating the rights of an innocent citizen by fabricating a bullshit story?

Don't bother answering copsucker, we all know your track record here.

• Lying is bad because...
• Lying is bad because...
• Lying is bad because...

In general, most people are habitual liars. And they usually lie multiple times per hour. Only relatively solitary persons are not habitual and constant liars. The more you interact with others, the more of a liar you almost certainly are.

Forbes: Lying Is Good For You, 2005

I tend to be anti-lying myself and generally try to be silent rather than tell an untruth deliberately but I do recognize that lying is often the social grease that keeps people functioning. And I think I would be more popular if I made it more of a habit to lie. I do chide myself about being too priggish over white lies and drunk lies. Honesty does become more important in your primary relationships with parents, spouses, and children. A co-worker telling you a lie about a work matter or a friend spreading some lying gossip to you is rarely as important as your spouse lying to you and/or cheating on you.

The acid test of honesty is whether you tell your wife the truth about whether those jeans actually do make her ass look fat. Or the brutal truth that her ass is fat enough that she can't blame any jeans for making it look fat.

I think she should have been charged, and found guilty. However the most appropriate criminal charge should have been Manslaughter. Recklessly causing the death of another person.

But she was a trained cop and her actions were intentional. She pulled her gun, aimed it, shot for effect and hit her intended target. She intended to kill or down the person she shot at.

That's a cold reading of the law, but it seems to apply. She probably didn't realize she was in the wrong apartment, but being spaced out and reacting is not reckless. It's a tough one to call.

Texas has capital murder and murder. The do not have degrees as elsewhere. Manslaughter is as you describe. I posted the statutes on another thread here.

She can produce mitigating factors at the sentencing phase.

I’ve seen it all.... it’s what happens when your police force is made up from the same group of humans every other profession is made from. A few winners, a few average players... and a whole lot of losers.

You made me consider a bit whether the jury might have been harder on her because she was considered off-duty at the time of the shooting. If she had gotten a wrong address serving an address warrant, she almost certainly would have gotten a lesser charge by making a mistake during execution of her assigned duties. Or never been charged at all, perhaps only losing her job or not even that much.

In a populated and armed state like Texas, surely there are a fair number of similar cases over the years where a woman or man has a CCW and is routinely armed and they wind up on the wrong floor of an apartment building and enter the wrong apartment and shoot someone. In such cases, I think you'd see more manslaughter and wrongful death convictions than murder verdicts (requiring intent, as nolu pointed out) that she got from this jury.

I keep thinking that she got held to a higher standard by the jury, even off-duty, because she had had police training and the jury expected her not to make such an elementary and tragic mistake. They might have excused the wrong-address-killing if she was serving a warrant. They might have convicted of a lesser charge if she wasn't a cop with weapons training and situational awareness training and experience.

[Before anyone says it, yeah, I know that cops are legally always on-duty, even when they're asleep.]

She probably didn't realize she was in the wrong apartment, but being spaced out and reacting is not reckless. It's a tough one to call.

IMHO, if she felt she was 100% justified to use deadly force, and that justification would have been spot on, had she actually entering her home, and mistaking what floor your on was common place, as reported by others in the building... and she wasn’t drunk or high, then I would consider that reckless.

I once investigated a dude that had narcolepsy. Was driving his vehicle around 5 pm, fell asleep at the wheel, drove through a glass foyer of a large grocery store, running over a small child... killing the child.

Driving with that condition is reckless. Zero intent to do anything unlawful. However a human life was taken. A punitive action should be taken, but imho, lack of intent should be a monumental consideration towards the length of sentence. With that said, if this bimbo should be sentence lightly, we have a few that will shit themselves here... start a whole other thread.

A punitive action should be taken, but imho, lack of intent should be a monumental consideration towards the length of sentence. With that said, if this bimbo should be sentence lightly, we have a few that will shit themselves here... start a whole other thread.

I think she should get at least as much time as any other killer in a similar mistaken-location killing would get. The judge and jury should be badge-blind (even if I suspect they already were not badge-blind in convicting her on the murder charge instead of the lesser charges).

I think there is a distinction here where cops should not get any extra leniency just because someone gave them a badge. But I don't think they should get punished more for the exact same actions. And this murder conviction may, in part, reflect a higher expectation of a cop than it would for a woman with a CCW shooting someone in a mistaken-location shooting.

Justice will be best served if she gets the same sentence as any armed civilian would in a mistaken-location shooting. No more, no less. And that is often harder for a judge to achieve than it would seem.

IMHO, if she felt she was 100% justified to use deadly force, and that justification would have been spot on, had she actually entering her home, and mistaking what floor your on was common place, as reported by others in the building... and she wasn’t drunk or high, then I would consider that reckless.

I feel your reach for a just result, but I am giving a cold look at the law to explain the verdict of the jury. Aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur, does not fit with intentionally pulling her weapon, aiming and shooting. In her act of shooting, she did exhibit a conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result. Due to apparent disorientation, her decision to pull the weapon and shoot was due to a horrible mistake. But the result of the act was the intended result. She intended to shoot him but based on her mistaken assessment of the situation.

As for knowingly, she did not know the actual circumstances that existed, but she did know the probable result of her conduct and had a connscious objective or desire to cause the result.

I'm not sure what justice is in this case. Maybe it can be reached in the sentencing phase.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-6-03.html

Texas Penal Code § 6.03. Definitions of Culpable Mental States

(a) A person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.

(b) A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to circumstances surrounding his conduct when he is aware of the nature of his conduct or that the circumstances exist. A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to a result of his conduct when he is aware that his conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result.

(c) A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

(d) A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

I'm not sure what justice is in this case. Maybe it can be reached in the sentencing phase.

This is why I went with "no more and no less than a civilian with a CCW would get under the same exact circumstances". And that is something that an appeals court in a big state could determine with some degree of accuracy.

This is why various states have sentencing commissions, why appeals courts consider the average sentences handed down for similar crimes, etc. But it can never be absolutely perfect in every case. Perfect justice is an illusion.

Of course this is, in part, why Lady Justice is always depicted as blind. But she does have nice hooters.

Of course this is, in part, why Lady Justice is always depicted as blind. But she does have nice hooters.

Isn't that the statue that Ashcroft had covered up with drapes when he was AG in 2002?

Isn't that the statue that Ashcroft had covered up with drapes when he was AG in 2002?

Ah, I see you recognized those famous and ample titties of DoJ's topless Lady Justice instantly.

What tipped you off?

What tipped you off?

I'd have to go with cup size.

Not that big - 34B I'd guess.

" Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article, refuse to read the rest and then whine and carp and complain to A K A.

Mr. Jury Foreman whitey will hem and haw and rant about how the guy eating ice cream was putting the cop in mortal danger with his spoon.

Neither one of them will condemn this murderous cop lady.

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed. "

LOL !!!