In Brief

Stop with the bullshit that “No one really knew the extent until Snowden revealed it.”

It is a fact that no on knew the extent.

The contract can't make him keep things that are illegal secret. Since it requires a search warrant to search someone and they aren't they are in violation.

Real Americans understand that.

We are being spied on better and faster today because of your American hero, Snowden.

Snowden exposed corruption. You try your best to cover it up and put blinders on.

Your premise is a false.

Well, there – Good Buddy – will you please help out this poor ole country boy who you may not consider one of YOUR real Americans.

If you were a real American, you would know better than to even say something like this.

I sincerely apologize to you – but I do not have any idea what you are saying here and what it is in reference to.

Another nonsense online apology. You state that your "apology" is "sincere" but you immediately gaslight Stone by insisting you have no idea what you are apologizing for. This is a way to deny Stone any agency in his own judgment of the matter and to try to pretend that he can have no rational basis for his opinion (even while you are "sincerely apologizing"). Why would you apologize to anyone unless you are admitting your own error in the matter?

First off, a sincere apology is one that is heartfelt, in which the wrongdoer has understood and confessed that they trampled on someone else's opinions and feelings and that they are resolved never to do that same thing again. Otherwise, apologies are simply empty meaningless words that are only used by psychopaths to manipulate others to do their will or accept their opinions or to persuade someone that their opinion is not a simple matter of right or wrong based on facts but is just one of many possible opinions on a matter that reasonable people might differ on.

So spare us all these self-serving, calculating and manipulative "sincere apologies".

It is unlawful.

If that is to complicated for you then I cannot help you.

You can believe some lawyer talk to obscure the truth of what the constitution actually says if you like playing games.

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology". If he isn't wrong about the matter, why should he apologize at all? Why should you accept this condescending "apology" if Gatlin continues to say he doesn't understand why he is "apologizing"?

This business of "I don't know what I'm sorry for but I sincerely apologize for everything" is never a sincere apology in any way. It is a way to placate an impulsive child or a vindictive hysterical woman or a senile person.

Gatlin is humoring you, probing for weakness. That's all his "apology" means. It's the sort of thing a con man makes their living from.

When you have a security clearance you sign documents promising you will never reveal any information you gain due to the access your clearance gives you,and agree to the punishments outlined on the papers you sign.

This applies to Snowden.

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?

If you don't want to go to prison,either don't sign the papers and take the job,or stay silent.

So. Break the law. Murder people. It's ok cuz, "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS", eh? Worked well in the Reich.

So they are cleverly keeping it out of circulation by allowing Amazon to sell it via mail order?

They apparently haven't much choice in the matter. Unless they openly assassinate him.

It's not as though the reptilian global spy agencies are "cleverly" and secretly wanting Snowden's book published -- is that what you're inferring?

They still don't want the book read and info shared, do they?

I have no idea. It does appear, however, that they don't want classified information released.

...they don't want classified information released.

I concur.

But additionally, they also don't like their entire operation exposed as illegal, immoral, dishonest, and abuse of authority and resources.

Please permit me to give you an example …

Okay. Let’s say that you [A K A Stone} want to come to work for me [Gatlin] and before I hire you, I have you sign a written agreement [contact] whereby you formally and legally agree that you will never tell anyone anything about me. But after you sign that agreement [contract] and come to work for me, you learn some things about me that you want to tell everybody about.

Maintaining privacy about personal matters are one thing....

It's when acts and events start adversely affecting others.

Would this mythical case of this written/oral contract (or oath) also necessarily exonerate you from extenuating circumstances -- like committing treason, hurting people, and committing other highly illegal, immoral acts?

By demanding oaths, isn't one justifying a "Code of Honor" among thieves, rogues and scoundrels?

THIS is one reason God has explicitly frowned upon taking oaths to men in Scripture. THEY become authority over God's Law.

But additionally, they also don't like their entire operation exposed as illegal, immoral, dishonest, and abuse of authority and resources.

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

I understand that you are saying the DOJ is using a law to prohibit Snowden’s “freedom of speech.” Although he admittedly is in full violation of the non-disclosure agreement [contract] he signed with the agencies. Let me see – how shall I properly express my take on this to you …

No matter how you cut it they are using a law to silence him.

No search warrants shall be issued except describing the exact place to be searched and what they are searching for with the permission a a judge.

Well they don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls. They were breading the law. Snowden is a brave patriot for exposing the treasonous government.

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

You are hinting that he said what we already knew.

Well if that is the case then you should shut up we already knew what he said.

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

Well to be honest, most people still did NOT believe Snowden's revelations -- given the MSM and goobermint tag-teaming smear of Snowden as a malcontent and rat who "jeopardized America's national security."

THIS BOOK DOCUMENTS an entire operation of what was/is still an illegal, immoral, dishonest polcy and abuse by authority and resources.

Q: Do you believe there is good moral standing, legal standing and reason to surveil every single American's movement and life of every America? And if so, by what Constitutional Law or common sense reason?

It does appear, however, that they don't want classified information released.

Yeah they don't want their confidential crimes exposed. Snowden exposed treason and the people responsible should pay the heaviest price.

...They don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls.

They were brea[k]ing the law.

Snowden is a brave patriot for exposing the treasonous government.

Truth.

Snowden exposed treason

Where's THAT headline? Let's get those details out there into the public arena. Where are they?

No, you were clear enough. Gatlin was merely "apologizing" strategically as a way to continue to try to advance his own argument that you are profoundly wrong (but you have every right to be wrong in a way so mysterious that Gatlin cannot possibly even comprehend that you might hold a reasonable fact-based opinion).

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology". If he isn't wrong about the matter, why should he apologize at all? Why should you accept this condescending "apology" if Gatlin continues to say he doesn't understand why he is "apologizing"?

This business of "I don't know what I'm sorry for but I sincerely apologize for everything" is never a sincere apology in any way. It is a way to placate an impulsive child or a vindictive hysterical woman or a senile person.

Gatlin is humoring you, probing for weakness. That's all his "apology" means. It's the sort of thing a con man makes their living from.

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

How do you know the government didn't apply for,and get a search warrant?

You don't. There IS such a thing as classified search warrants.

It's not as though the reptilian global spy agencies are "cleverly" and secretly wanting Snowden's book published -- is that what you're inferring?

No,I am merely stating the obvious. The book and the classified info in it are already in the public domain,and you can't unring a bell.

How the HELL are they doing that?

To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?

To the Federal Government,and NOBODY MAKES you take the oath or sign the paper. You are free to walk away if you want.

So. Break the law. Murder people. It's ok cuz, "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS", eh? Worked well in the Reich.

When did you turn into a hysterical drama queen?

One word for you,"Midol".

Q: Do you believe there is good moral standing, legal standing and reason to surveil every single American's movement and life of every America? And if so, by what Constitutional Law or common sense reason?

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

You don't think the Feebs didn't spy on recent German immigrants during WW-2? Hell,they put Japanese people who were born as US citizens in internment camps for the duration of the war.

They put a significant number of Germans in America in the same kind of internment camps for the duration of the war. Interestingly, they were kept confined longer than the Japanese were after the war ended in 1945. These were the German American Bund which is a nice name to use instead of American Nazi Party (which was later established as a party in the Fifties).

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

I will tell you more of my secrets.

Keep your perversions to yourself freakshow.

“ I am an old man on fixed income and …”

Depending on the price and profit margin involved, that usually will get me five to ten percent right from the start.

I'm a contractor and I hear that line I think hmm. I'll charge them a little more for trying to con me. They pay. lol.

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

So if the government wants to do something unconstitutional. They just make you sign a paper so if you find out you can't tell anyone.

That's a pretty fucked up view of how things should work imo.

They put a significant number of Germans in America in the same kind of internment camps for the duration of the war.

I know. The difference is they were recent immigrants,not citizens. 2nd and 3rd generation Japanese went into the internment camps.

Nobody likes to talk about this,but the truth is the Japanese who had US citizenship should be happy about this because they had MP's protecting them from attack. I had a friend whose father enlisted in the 442nd Regimental Combat Team,a unit composed entirely of Japanese Americans,and rumored to have been the most decorated US Army unit of WW-2.

His uncle left home to enlist too,but was caught and beaten by his fellow Chicago citizens on the way to the enlistment office,and spent the rest of his life wearing diapers and being spoon fed.

The German Americans were lucky in that respect. The recent ones couldn't be told from any other American if they didn't have an accent or kept their mouths shut. The Japanese Americans weren't that fortunate.

So if the government wants to do something unconstitutional. They just make you sign a paper so if you find out you can't tell anyone.

No. You obviously have never had a security clearance,and don't understand the concept.

MOST military/national defense secrets are more related to not letting the enemy know what you know because if they did,it would be easier for them to track down the source in their country that supplied you with this information.

There are also METHODS OF OPERATION that are secret because you don't want the enemy to know how you operate to keep them from catching and executing your agents,who may be soldiers,diplomats,embassy workers,CIA agents playing the role of tourists,etc,etc,etc. They mostly "mine" the citizens of the nation you are investigating,and those citizens are providing the intelligence and they need to be protected. In most cases if they were exposed,they would die.

I used to have a Top Secret Crypto security clearance while in the army,and held a Secret security clearance at various times while working with the Army in an advisory role.

The whole time I held security clearances,I did not know of ONE single damn thing or operation that was being used against America or American citizens. Never even heard rumors. Such things are under the domain of the FBI,and they are VERY jealous when it comes to guarding their secrets. Even they are overseen and kept slapped into line by their political masters. Sure,some agent or tech geek sometimes goes wrong,but when they do,the Feebs go after them like a hungry dog after a nice raw steak.

This post & thread appears to have struck clear dividing lines of cynicism or support.

The respective subjects of "911" and role of gubmint Alphabet Agencies and military (in the name of "national security") seem always to evoke polarized opinion. Why is that? (Yes, I have my own theory)

The degree of support/criticism the respective two subjects receive appears to be based primarily on the fundamental trust OF Government, loyalty TO IT, and supposed function OF IT and its purported "mission" of "national Security" -- regardless of its proper role, lack of transparency, evolved political agenda, and especially, regardless of honesty, responsibility or ethics.

The side from which respective relative position of support or criticism seems to be dependent on whether one has been in the employ of government or military to some major extent. That same side and perspective also appears to be determinate factor in whether one is more open and flexible to "Truther" issues, OR remains steadfast and more rigid in their respective loyalty to institutional/governmental narratives (as they present it.)

What say you?

How do you know the government didn't apply for,and get a search warrant?

You mean all 325 million of them?

There IS such a thing as classified search warrants.

Yes.

In theory.

Q: Since when do all 325 millions Americans warrant 24/7 surveillance? The Patriot Act and NSA -- are you familiar with both of their alleged "mission"?

Are you familiar with the degree of carte blanche to which they routinely justfy and ignore the US Constitution?

Are you someone who supported the absurd the airport strip-searches of gramma, nuns, and WW2 vets (See Joe Foss) while ignoring obvious suspects (see Mooses.)

I am merely stating the obvious. The book and the classified info in it are already in the public domain,and you can't unring a bell.

Have you read the book?

ME: "EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

YOU: How the HELL are they doing that?

Do you really wonder *how* the NSA and various Alphabet Agencies are engaging in 24/7 surveillance and recording of our every PRIVATE phone and internet conversation? Or even watch our movements (via ubiquitous street cameras?)

Seriously?

ME: "To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?"

YOU: "To the Federal Government,and NOBODY MAKES you take the oath or sign the paper. You are free to walk away if you want."

Sure -- no one has a gun to the others head. But that's not the point. Any oath or signed paperwork regarding silence may indeed be mutual. These are the TWO points you missed (as well as a bonus point):

1) Illegal/rogue/immoral/unethical acts & missions may STILL be performed on behalf of these ruling overlords/commanders. WITH IMPUNITY. In complete disregard to justice OR actual security.

2) To whom does one owe allegiance? In support of US Constitution and to the citizenry (who actually pay a serviceman's salary)? OR, to a specific military/secret organization?

3) There is an obvious reason "Black Ops" is a thang. Some might consider the Coup against President Trump a less horrific JFK example.

When did you turn into a hysterical drama queen? One word for you,"Midol".

Hey, the "Midol" line was mine first.

[Snowden] is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

Complete and utter BS.

...."damage the security of America if it [the illegal targeting & surveillance of all 325 million Americans for no good reason, having NOTHING to do with National Security] became general knowledge."

FIXED.

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

Exactly so. He signed an NDA that did not differ substantially from the NDAs that employees sign in the private sector to keep company secrets in confidence in perpetuity unless they are released by the employer to publish something. The difference with Snowden compared to people like Stormy Daniels violating an NDA is that DoJ/NSA/CIA all have a lot of power to do something about someone violating their NDAs.

Clearly, Snowden and his publisher knew the DoJ was very likely to take this action. A few of the books that were published by SEAL Team 6 members about the (alleged) Bin Laden assassination in Pakistan were subject to this but I don't think they actually sued to recover the profits. There was at least one book by a former CIA employee, maybe 5 years ago, that was threatened with a similar lawsuit. So Snowden and publisher both had cause to know that DoJ would likely take this action.

According to the copyright page of the book:

So the publisher is Metropolitan, one of five divisions of the big Holt publishing empire, and on their website they brag about publishing Lefty books specifically, mentioning a number of books by Chomsky. So it is a publishing house focused on Lefty books. Perfect for Snowden.

Snowden and the publisher must have known the DoJ would try to seize the proceeds. So they probably put a pile of royalty money in an escrow account overseas, possibly in a Russian bank, and have an agreement beforehand with the bank to pay out or transfer a certain amount to Snowden based on officially published book sales from Metropolitan for a certain period of time. There are likely some banks in Russia who don't care about U.S. sanctions at all, given how many oligarchs and businesses are under sanctions already. America already sanctioned Sberbank, VTB, Gazprombank, Russian Agricultural Bank, and VEB and we got the EU to join in. So they have nothing to lose as far as we're concerned.

I bet Snowden is getting paid, no matter what DoJ is doing. This is pretty much his only chance for a real payday for the rest of his life. We should assume that the Russkies have already pumped all the info he had from him by various means. They may not have but I think they have. It's just too valuable to them to leave him alone. Snowden has info they could not otherwise obtain or that would cost them billions in espionage costs to get. His familiarity with NSA software alone would be very valuable to them. So that is probably how he's earned his keep to stay in Russia. But he wants a nice fat bank account in Western money or cryptocurrency just in case his Russia gig ever goes south.

This may be a DoJ case where they prosecute only to uphold their NDAs with all their other contractors. If they fail to pursue Snowden and can be demonstrated in court as not enforcing their NDAs to the maximum, it could impede any future claims they have to enforce their NDAs on other employees or former employees or contractors. So this may be a pro forma case, not one intended to actually stop Snowden from getting his payoff from these book sales. It's to stop the next Snowden(s) and show the courts that they are serious about enforcing their NDAs.

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

I'm surprised you hadn't heard it before, given the articles you post. Gaslighting has become something of a buzzword in certain circles in recent years.

In truth, I should have called Gatlin's #FakeApology something like "a gaslit apology". Clearly, it was manipulative and deliberately so but it was not technically gaslighting which is used by psychopaths or con men to make a person doubt their own memory or understanding of events. But the #FakeApology does reveals that Gatlin either thinks he's a lot smarter than the rest of us or that Gatlin thinks we really are total morons. Probably the former since it is more self-flattering for Gatlin to think we are smart but that he is so much smarter in online debate tactics. If it were the latter, it isn't as much fun for Gatlin to try to play people that he considers to be morons; it's more rewarding emotionally to think you're much smarter than your devious but inferior opponents/rivals.

Gatlin: I know there is Financial Exploitation in Aging …

There's a pretty ugly suggestion there that you are exploiting and preying upon your elderly customers.

The conspiracy theorists said "no it didn't".

I'm going with the guys with the facts and figures.