The Very Book The Government Does Not Want You To Read Just Went #1 In The World

Source: Collective Evolution
Published: Sep 18, 2019
Author: Arjun Walia
Post Date: 2019-09-20 07:27:10 by Deckard
Views: 23162

In Brief

  • The Facts:

    Edward Snowden recently released a book titled "Permanent Record." The US government is now suing the publisher of the book for not giving the CIA and the NSA a chance to erase classified details from the book.

  • Reflect On:

    What is the government really protecting? Are they protecting the well being of the citizenry or are they protecting immoral, unethical, political, corporate and elitist interests?

George Orwell’s 1984 is a classic book depicting a populace ruled by a political regime that persecutes individualism and independent critical thinking as “thoughtcrimes” that must be enforced by the “thought police.” This party seeks power above all, and, through the propagandist Ministry of Truth, presents the people with their version of truth and casts away all other information and opinion. Sound familiar?

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This is exactly what’s happening today right in front of our eyes. The “ministry of truth” comes in the form, at least on social media, as FakeNews watchdogs. These are entities that are flagging information that threatens corporate and political interests and labels it as “fake news” when a lot of it, is in fact, the complete opposite. Since when does an authoritative entity like the government have to step in and decide for the people what is real and what is not? Are people not capable of examining sources and determining this for themselves? These fake news watchdogs have some interesting sponsors. One of these sponsors, for example, is NewsGuard. They are funded by Clinton donors and big pharma, with ties to the CFR. You can read more about that entity here.

Companies and government agencies who are threatened by information also seem to be employing an “army of bloggers, surrogates, trolls, and bots on Twitter, Facebook, and by email” (Robert F. Kennedy Jr.) to try and sway discussion and brainwash people. We here at Collective Evolution have been experiencing them as well.

The world knows why the hunt for Julian Assange was ongoing for so long, it’s because he leaked secrets and exposed those who keep them. He exposed the lies, corruption and deceit that represents the backbone of the Western military alliance and the American empire. He exposed, in the words of John F. Hylan, former Mayor of New York City, the “real menace of Republic”, the “invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation.” He exposes the ones “who virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes.” (source)(source)

He exposed immoral and unethical actions that have no basis and justification, he is a hero.

The same thing goes for National Security Agency (NSA) whistleblower Edward Snowden, who leaked classified documents regarding the scope of the US governments surveillance programs, which is and was huge. He is and was not the first, William Binney did the same, along with Thomas Drake and many others.

Keep in mind that this is a global mass surveillance program. Snowden recently released a book about it, and more.

In the book, Snowden goes into great detail about how he risked everything to expose the US government’s system of mass surveillance. In it, he reveals the story of his life, including how he helped to build that system and what motivated him to try to bring it down.

Mass surveillance, facial recognition, etc, are justified by the national security state for the purposes of combating terrorism, for example. But, what does the connection between terrorist organizations and the US government say about these programs? If the US government itself, or factions of it, are arming these terrorists, creating them, and carrying out false flag events blaming them on terrorism in order to justify infiltration of a country for ulterior motives as well as a heightened the national security state which involves mass surveillance, this means that their justification for these programs is a complete lie. So what’s the real reason for them?

This is well known, a few years ago current democratic presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard introduced the stop arming terrorist act, which would stop the U.S. government from using taxpayer dollars to directly or indirectly support groups who are allied with and supporting terrorist groups like ISIS and al Qaeda in their war to overthrow the Syrian government. (source)

As far as false flag terrorist attacks go, many believe the chemical gas attacks in Syria were orchestrated by the western military alliance in order to justify the infiltration of the country. The evidence for this is quite grand. 9/11 is another example many people believe was false flag terrorism.

‘Protecting National security’ has now become an umbrella term to justify immoral and unethical actions.

Perhaps Snowden’s book sheds light on that. I have yet to read it.

William Binney is a former high ranking intelligence official with the National Security Agency (NSA). He’s had quite the go, starting in 2002 when he let the public know of a system ( ‘trailblazer’) intended to analyze data carried on communication networks (like the internet). He exposed the agencies eavesdropping program and has faced harassment from the FBI, NSA and more. He has been in and out of the court room ever since he decided to resign and blow the whistle.

Binney hasn’t stopped, one of the highest-level whistleblowers to ever come out of the NSA. He is now saying:

“At least 80% of fibre optic cables globally go via the US, this is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores. The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control.” (source)

The Takeaway

At the end of the day, the US government suing the publisher of Snowden’s book is only bringing more attention to the truth of mass censorship and that this global elite is losing power. The more the global elite respond the way they are, with this like the mass censorship of information, alternative independent media outlets being shut down, and jailing people like Julian Assange, the more they hurt their own interests… which is inspiring for humanity as we awaken.

Post Comment   Private Reply

#8: Deckard    To: Gatlin (#7)

Edward Snowden is a hero.

Alternate text if image doesn't load

Deckard posted on 2019-09-21 10:49:30   Reply   Private Reply

#9: misterwhite    To: A K A Stone, Gatlin (#3)

It is number 2 on Amazon now.

Then the headline should read:

The Very Book The Government Does Not Want You To Read Just Went #2 On Amazon.

misterwhite posted on 2019-09-21 11:44:44   Reply   Private Reply

#10: Gatlin    To: Deckard (#8)

Edward Snowden is a hero.

Why?

Provides Proof The Government Is Spying On Citizens.

And now at the dawn of the Snowden revelations, many wondered – and hoped – that the U.S. intelligence community would be destroyed. It was not. It has strengthened since the opposite has happened. Despite undoubted intelligence losses, new collection barriers, and diplomatic embarrassments, the community has emerged as a stronger organization despite, indeed because of, Snowden.

Snowden actually helped that agencies. He made them aware of a problem and they scrapped much and they were forced to develop and install new and much better capabilities faster than before and ever planned.

Snowden’s influence has in many other ways been limited. For example, there in the rise of “smart speaker”, exemplified by Amazon’s Echo. It has left many privacy activists baffled. Why, just a few years after a global scandal involving government surveillance, would people willingly install always-on microphones in their homes?

Proving they really don’t give a shit – right? With the new-found privacy conundrum prevelant by installing a device that can literally listen to everything you’re saying represents a chilling new development in the age of internet-connected things.

We are still learning how Snowden helped the U.S. intelligence community.

The Guardian published the first story based on the huge archive of documents that that Edward Snowden stole from the National Security Agency while working as an NSA contractor. Then-Attorney General Holder’s Justice Department quickly charged Snowden with felonies for theft of government property and mishandling classified information. Last week, however, Holder praised Snowden. “I think that he actually performed a public service by raising the debate that we engaged in and by the changes that we made,” Holder said.

This seems like an improbable claim. Snowden compromised scores of surveillance techniques, representing billions of dollars of investments over many years. U.S. firms that secretly cooperated with government intelligence agencies stopped doing so to the extent they could, and public defiance became the business-compelled norm. Firms made encryption more readily available and easier to use, which made it harder for the U.S. government to monitor communications and access data. Many foreign governments responded with countermeasures like data localization laws, tighter privacy rules, and closer judicial scrutiny of U.S. collection practices.

The Defense Department claimed that the “scope of the compromised knowledge related to US intelligence capabilities” as a result of Snowden was “staggering.” This claim is unverifiable but seems plausible in light of the breadth of and reaction to the disclosures. The intelligence losses extend beyond counterterrorism, the main context in which these issues are typically discussed. NSA collections undergird every element of U.S. national security and foreign policy—including its extensive military operations around the globe, its pervasive diplomatic engagements, and its numerous economic negotiations and initiatives. Knowledge of what an adversary or other foreign intelligence target is doing or planning gives the United States a huge advantage in its myriad international affairs, and is central pillar of American power. Such knowledge is harder to come by as a result of Snowden.

Snowden forced the intelligence community out of its suboptimal and unsustainable obsession with secrecy. “Before the unauthorized disclosures, we were always conservative about discussing specifics of our collection programs, based on the truism that the more adversaries know about what we're doing, the more they can avoid our surveillance,” Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said in 2013. Post-Snowden, the intelligence community operates on the principle that secrecy is not an absolute value, but one that needs to be traded off for other values, including domestic legitimacy. Snowden made it realize that, in the words of former NSA Director Michael Hayden, “although the public cannot be briefed on everything, there has to be enough out there so that the majority of the population believe what they are doing is acceptable.”

Forced transparency meant that the intelligence community had to justify itself before the American people for the first time ever—about what it did in the domestic arena and abroad, about the legality of and accountability for its actions, and about its importance to U.S. national security. It had to open itself up to through scrutiny and judgment by many new institutions, including the President’s Review Group, and a Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board (PCLOB). Initially this was a painful, even bewildering process since the intelligence community had no experience at, and thus wasn’t any good at, explaining itself. But the transparency turned out to bring many benefits.

First, the intelligence community opened up. It got much better at talking to the public. And the sky did not fall.

Second, the intelligence community had a good story to tell. Credible public evidence emerged that the NSA was a thoroughly accountable institution performing a vital intelligence role. “Every program was authorized and approved, and whatever one thinks of the programs, it was not a case of running amok or exceeding its authority,” said civil libertarian and Chicago law professor Geoffrey Stone, a Review Group member. And the value of NSA programs were publicly revealed more extensively than ever. The PCLOB concluded that the 702 PRISM and upstream programs “played a key role in discovering and disrupting specific terrorist plots aimed at the United States and other countries.” These claims by outsiders to (and in some instances, adversary critics of) the intelligence community are significantly more credible, and legitimizing, than when the community itself makes the same sorts of claim.

Third, the main criticisms of the NSA ended up having silver linings. It emerged from the Snowden documents (and further voluntary releases by the government) that the NSA sometimes had problems complying with judicial orders, usually because of the difficulty of meshing legal directives with extraordinary complex technical collection processes. And yet these embarrassments also showed that the FISA court that monitors the NSA in secret was not, as many claimed, a rubber stamp. It was, instead, an important independent check on NSA activities. As a result of Snowden, the FISA court is a much more credible institution that can and in the future will be relied upon more thoroughly to monitor expanded NSA activities in secret.

Another criticism of the NSA was that its aggressive collection processes abroad did not consider the rights and interests of foreign individuals and firms. The main response was Presidential Policy Directive 28, which imposed restraints on collection abroad in the interests of non-U.S. citizens. PPD 28 does not have sharp teeth and, while it has reportedly been a pain to implement, will not likely have a material impact on U.S. collection practices. Like many post- Snowden reforms, it imposes process and oversight constraints and forces NSA to be more prudent in its collection practices. PPD-28 (along with the Judicial Redress Act, which extended Privacy Act protections to foreign citizens) has the side-benefit that the United States can now proudly and truthfully claim to have the most robust protections for non-citizens of any signals collection agency in the world.

Fourth, and perhaps most surprisingly, the intelligence community has been able to maintain and strengthen the legal authorities for its collection practices. The bulk telephone metadata program was legally and on the merits the most controversial program that Snowden revealed, and the one that the NSA seemed least interested in preserving. The USA Freedom Act made some important reforms to this program—most notably, by replacing NSA collection and storage of the metadata with carrier storage of the data and by requiring more limited NSA querying of the data pursuant to court approval. And yet the NSA has ended up in a stronger position as a result. It gets access “a greater volume of call records” than before, according to the NSA general counsel, and probably at a lower cost to itself, since it no longer needs to store and organize the massive quantities of data. And even more importantly, the program has now been vetted publicly and expressly baked into the legal system, giving it a legitimacy and almost certainly a longevity that it never could have achieved in secret.

The improbable preservation and strengthening of the bulk telephone metadata program—the least valuable and hardest-to-justify of the programs that Snowden revealed—is emblematic of the types of changes Snowden wrought. Few if any important intelligence collection programs have ended as a result of Snowden, and the USA Freedom Act reforms actually expanded some intelligence community authorities. The intelligence community has had to subject itself to more scrutiny and process checks, and it has had to trim its sails a bit to make its practices more proportional to the ends it seeks. But the transparency resulted in public debates that concluded that the NSA practices were in the round worth preserving.

From the baseline of what almost everyone expected when the scale of Snowden’s revelations first became apparent, the intelligence community, and especially the NSA, have emerged in astonishingly good shape. The NSA is still very much in the business of aggressive signals intelligence around the globe. Its domestic legal authorities are sounder. Its value is more apparent to the American public. It is much more adept at public diplomacy. And its central and expanding role going forward—not just for signals intelligence collection, but for cybersecurity and offensive cyber operations—are secure.

These are but some of the public services for which the U.S. government has Snowden to thank.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-21 12:32:53   Reply   Private Reply

#11: Liberator    To: misterwhite (#9)

Then the headline should read:

The Very Book The Government Does Not Want You To Read Just Went #2 On Amazon.

They still don't want the book read and info shared, do they?

Liberator posted on 2019-09-21 12:40:30   Reply   Private Reply

#12: Liberator    To: Gatlin (#10)

Are you able to post your own thoughts on the matter?

Liberator posted on 2019-09-21 12:41:25   Reply   Private Reply

#13: Gatlin    To: A K A Stone (#3)

Edward Snowden an American hero.

Why?

It is said that he provided proof that the government is spying on citizens.

… “provided poof” …

If you didn’t already know that and needed to be “provided proof” of such actions – then the only proof provided was that you were dumber that a pile of shit.

What some hoped for with Snowden’s revelations was that the U.S. intelligence community would be destroyed. It was not. Exactly the opposite has happened - It has strengthened since Edward Snowden became your American hero.

Despite undoubted intelligence losses, new collection barriers, and diplomatic embarrassments, the community has now emerged as a stronger organization discounting – yes indeed and because of – Snowden.

Snowden actually helped the agencies. He made them aware of a problem and they scrapped much and they were forced to develop and install new and much better capabilities faster than before and ever planned.

We are being spied on better and faster today because of your American hero, Snowden.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-21 12:52:44   Reply   Private Reply

#14: Deckard    To: Gatlin (#13)

We are being spied on better and faster today because of in spite of your American hero, Snowden.

Fixed it.

You seem to love warrantless spying on ALL American citizens.

Obviously you are one of those sheep who constantly bleat "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear".

Those are the words of tyrants and their submissive sycophants.

Deckard posted on 2019-09-21 13:09:21   Reply   Private Reply

#15: sneakypete    To: A K A Stone (#4)

Uh Freedom of Speech and the press little bitches.

Freedom of Speech is NOT a universal right. When you have a security clearance you sign documents promising you will never reveal any information you gain due to the access your clearance gives you,and agree to the punishments outlined on the papers you sign.

This applies to Snowden. If you don't want to go to prison,either don't sign the papers and take the job,or stay silent. Snowden signed the papers and then went public,so now he is a whiny little bitch complaining about how "unfair" it is,just like he is some sort of spoiled 9 year old mama's boy.

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-21 13:18:49   Reply   Private Reply

#16: sneakypete    To: Deckard (#8)

Edward Snowden is a hero.

He is a whiney little bitch,

ANYBODY with 2 IQ points to rub together knows the government "spies" on citizens.

You don't think the Feebs didn't spy on recent German immigrants during WW-2? Hell,they put Japanese people who were born as US citizens in internment camps for the duration of the war.

The ygly truth is the end result was they were protected from attack by idiot Americans for "looking like the enemy" during the war. People from Germany weren't put into containment camps because nobody could look at them and tell they were German.

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-21 13:23:41   Reply   Private Reply

#17: sneakypete    To: Liberator (#11)

They still don't want the book read and info shared, do they?

So they are cleverly keeping it out of circulation by allowing Amazon to sell it via mail order?

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-21 13:25:06   Reply   Private Reply

#18: Gatlin    To: Deckard (#14)

We are being spied on better and faster today because of in spite of your American hero, Snowden.

Fixed it.

… “Fixed it” …

Uh …

How?

It’s saying the same thing with the same end results.

But if you like your version better – then I am perfectly okay with it.

If you didn’t already know that and needed to be “provided proof” of such actions – then the only proof provided was that you were dumber that a pile of shit.

What some hoped for with Snowden’s revelations was that the U.S. intelligence community would be destroyed. It was not. Exactly the opposite has happened - It has strengthened since Edward Snowden became your American hero.

Despite undoubted intelligence losses, new collection barriers, and diplomatic embarrassments, the community has now emerged as a stronger organization discounting – yes indeed and because of in spite of – Snowden. Snowden actually helped the agencies. He made them aware of a problem and they scrapped much and they were forced to develop and install new and much better capabilities faster than before and ever planned.

We are being spied on better and faster because of. in spite of your American hero, Snowden.

You go on to say …
You seem to love warrantless spying on ALL American citizens.
Nah, I seem to love – well, I actually really do love – pointing out the errors in the rational and your seemingly fact less postings. You are so closed-minded and extremely agenda-driven.
Obviously, you are one of those sheep who constantly bleat "If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear".
Nope, I am one of those individuals endowed with the ability to use common sense and make good judgments. I can help you to learn those personal traits.
Those are the words of tyrants and their submissive sycophants.
No, those are YOUR words posted by YOU.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-21 13:56:23   Reply   Private Reply

#19: Deckard    To: sneakypete (#16)

ANYBODY with 2 IQ points to rub together knows the government "spies" on citizens.

No one really knew the extent until Snowden revealed it.

Deckard posted on 2019-09-21 15:47:52   Reply   Private Reply

#20: A K A Stone    To: sneakypete (#15)

What law would that be he broke.

Since congress shall make NO LAW.......

There is no law.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-21 20:59:24   Reply   Private Reply

#21: nolu chan    To: A K A Stone, Gatlin, sneakypete, Deckard (#20)

You are mistaking the government action as a criminal action when it is a civil action. The article is misrepresents the government action as one to prevent publication.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/united-states-files-civil-lawsuit-against-edward-snowden-publishing-book-violation-cia-and

Justice News
Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Tuesday, September 17, 2019

United States Files Civil Lawsuit against Edward Snowden for Publishing a Book in Violation of CIA and NSA Non-Disclosure Agreements

The United States today filed a lawsuit against Edward Snowden, a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and contractor for the National Security Agency (NSA), who published a book entitled Permanent Record in violation of the non-disclosure agreements he signed with both CIA and NSA.

The lawsuit alleges that Snowden published his book without submitting it to the agencies for pre-publication review, in violation of his express obligations under the agreements he signed. Additionally, the lawsuit alleges that Snowden has given public speeches on intelligence-related matters, also in violation of his non-disclosure agreements.

The United States’ lawsuit does not seek to stop or restrict the publication or distribution of Permanent Record. Rather, under well-established Supreme Court precedent, Snepp v. United States, the government seeks to recover all proceeds earned by Snowden because of his failure to submit his publication for pre-publication review in violation of his alleged contractual and fiduciary obligations.

The lawsuit also names as nominal defendants the corporate entities involved in publishing Snowden’s book. The United States is suing the publisher solely to ensure that no funds are transferred to Snowden, or at his direction, while the court resolves the United States’ claims. Snowden is currently living outside of the United States.

“Edward Snowden has violated an obligation he undertook to the United States when he signed agreements as part of his employment by the CIA and as an NSA contractor,” said Assistant Attorney General Jody Hunt of the Department of Justice’s Civil Division. “The United States’ ability to protect sensitive national security information depends on employees’ and contractors’ compliance with their non-disclosure agreements, including their pre-publication review obligations. This lawsuit demonstrates that the Department of Justice does not tolerate these breaches of the public’s trust. We will not permit individuals to enrich themselves, at the expense of the United States, without complying with their pre-publication review obligations.”

“Intelligence information should protect our nation, not provide personal profit,” said G. Zachary Terwilliger, U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. “This lawsuit will ensure that Edward Snowden receives no monetary benefits from breaching the trust placed in him.”

This lawsuit is separate from the criminal charges brought against Snowden for his alleged disclosures of classified information. This lawsuit is a civil action, and based solely on Snowden’s failure to comply with the clear pre-publication review obligations included in his signed non-disclosure agreements.

This matter is being handled by the Department of Justice’s Civil Division and the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Virginia.

The claims asserted by the United States are allegations only; there has been no determination of liability.

Attachment(s):
Download snowden_complaint_final.pdf

Component(s):
Civil Division

Press Release Number:
19-988

Updated September 17, 2019

nolu chan posted on 2019-09-21 22:04:18   Reply   Private Reply

#22: Gatlin    To: Deckard, sneakypete (#19)

ANYBODY with 2 IQ points to rub together knows the government "spies" on citizens.

Stop with the bullshit that “No one really knew the extent until Snowden revealed it.”

Since 2001 it has been common knowledge that the government has engaged in massive, illegal dragnet surveillance of millions of ordinary citizens. There were full blown press reports in late 2005. The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been at the forefront in an attempt to stops it. you can even read the timelines here.

In early 2006, EFF obtained whistleblower evidence (.pdf) from former AT&T technician Mark Klein showing that AT&T is cooperating with the illegal surveillance. The undisputed documents show that AT&T installed a fiberoptic splitter at its facility at 611 Folsom Street in San Francisco that makes copies of all emails web browsing and other Internet traffic to and from AT&T customers and provides those copies to the NSA. This copying includes both domestic and international Internet activities of AT&T customers. As one expert observed, “this isn’t a wiretap, it’s a country-tap.”

News reports in December 2005 first revealed that the National Security Agency (NSA) has been intercepting Americans’ phone calls and Internet communications. Those news reports, combined with a USA Today story in May 2006 and the statements of several members of Congress, revealed that the NSA is also receiving wholesale copies of American's telephone and other communications records. All of these surveillance activities are in violation of the privacy safeguards established by Congress and the US Constitution.

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-21 22:45:15   Reply   Private Reply

#23: A K A Stone    To: Gatlin (#22)

Stop with the bullshit that “No one really knew the extent until Snowden revealed it.”

It is a fact that no on knew the extent.

The contract can't make him keep things that are illegal secret. Since it requires a search warrant to search someone and they aren't they are in violation.

Real Americans understand that.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-21 23:07:44   Reply   Private Reply

#24: A K A Stone    To: Gatlin (#13)

We are being spied on better and faster today because of your American hero, Snowden.

Snowden exposed corruption. You try your best to cover it up and put blinders on.

Your premise is a false.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-21 23:20:20   Reply   Private Reply

#25: Gatlin    To: A K A Stone (#23)

source
Stop with the bullshit that “No one really knew the extent until Snowden revealed it.”

It is a fact that no on[e] knew the extent. [Definition of Extent: The degree to which something happens].

On May 20, 2013, Edward Joseph Snowden [a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) employee and subcontractor] released classified documents there were initially published by the Guardian on June 5, 2013. source

NOTE – The date of Snowden’s information release was on June 5, 2013.

The massive, illegal dragnet surveillance of the domestic communications and communications records of millions of ordinary Americans since at least 2001 was first reported by the press and discovered by the public in late 2005. source

NOTE – The date of the MASSIVE surveillance was first discovered by the public in late 2005. [Definition of Massive: very large in size].

News reports in December 2005 first revealed that the National Security Agency (NSA) has been intercepting Americans’ phone calls and Internet communications. Those news reports, combined with a USA Today story in May 2006 and the statements of several members of Congress, revealed that the NSA is also receiving wholesale copies of American's telephone and other communications records. [Definition of Wholesale: Done on a large scale; extensive]. source

Secret government documents, [furnished by Snowden then] published by Guardian and Washington Post in 2013, confirmed – CONFIRMED – that NSA obtains full copies of everything that is carried along major domestic fiber optic cable networks.

Real Americans understand that: It is a fact that no on[e] knew the extent.
Well “Hot Diggity Dog” – I would perhaps consider becoming one of YOUR “real Americans” if you will please furnish me with factual evidence of your statement.

While I await that, I will continue by stating tjat I simply cannot find information to agree with your statement that “it is a fact that no on[e] knew the extent.” I find in different articles that everyone knew from press reports about the massive, wholesale, illegal dragnet surveillance since late 2005 and all that Snowden did was to confirm that on June 5, 2013.

I would say that YOUR real Americans knew of the massive, wholesale, illegal dragnet surveillance – the simply did not know the amount [extent] of the sophisticated being used.

Snowden did not reveal the “extent of WHAT” – since that was already known – he revealed the “extent of HOW.” And I am fully prepared to discuss with you the biggest actual revelations from Snowden’s leaks.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-22 07:32:16   Reply   Private Reply

#26: Gatlin    To: A K A Stone (#23)

source
The contract can't make him keep things that are illegal secret. Since it requires a search warrant to search someone and they aren't they are in violation.

Real Americans understand that.

Well, there – Good Buddy – will you please help out this poor ole country boy who you may not consider one of YOUR real Americans. I simply cannot understand what you are talking about here. I will therefore respond with a general statement.

Snowden signed non-disclosure agreements [contracts] with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and National Security Agency (NSA) agreeing to keep ALL things there and from there SECRET – and yes, it definitely does include anything illegal.

You are right In that they can’t MAKE him keep the things that are illegal secret – but they sure as hell can take him to court for violating the non- disclosure agreements [contracts] and seek a judgment against him.

Which they are now doing …

For on Tuesday, the US Department of Justice filed a lawsuit against Edward Snowden for publishing a book, Permanent Record, in violation of non-disclosure agreements he had with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and National Security Agency (NSA).

Since it requires a search warrant to search someone and they aren't they are in violation.
I sincerely apologize to you – but I do not have any idea what you are saying here and what it is in reference to. If you would like to clarify, then I will be more than happy to respond.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-22 07:52:55   Reply   Private Reply

#27: Tooconservative    To: Gatlin, A K A Stone (#26)

Well, there – Good Buddy – will you please help out this poor ole country boy who you may not consider one of YOUR real Americans.

If you were a real American, you would know better than to even say something like this.

I sincerely apologize to you – but I do not have any idea what you are saying here and what it is in reference to.

Another nonsense online apology. You state that your "apology" is "sincere" but you immediately gaslight Stone by insisting you have no idea what you are apologizing for. This is a way to deny Stone any agency in his own judgment of the matter and to try to pretend that he can have no rational basis for his opinion (even while you are "sincerely apologizing"). Why would you apologize to anyone unless you are admitting your own error in the matter?

First off, a sincere apology is one that is heartfelt, in which the wrongdoer has understood and confessed that they trampled on someone else's opinions and feelings and that they are resolved never to do that same thing again. Otherwise, apologies are simply empty meaningless words that are only used by psychopaths to manipulate others to do their will or accept their opinions or to persuade someone that their opinion is not a simple matter of right or wrong based on facts but is just one of many possible opinions on a matter that reasonable people might differ on.

So spare us all these self-serving, calculating and manipulative "sincere apologies".

Tooconservative posted on 2019-09-22 08:09:03   Reply   Private Reply

#28: A K A Stone    To: Gatlin (#26)

They are using a law for prohibit free speech. Since congress shall make no law.....

It is unlawful.

If that is to complicated for you then I cannot help you.

You can believe some lawyer talk to obscure the truth of what the constitution actually says if you like playing games.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-22 08:10:33   Reply   Private Reply

#29: A K A Stone    To: Tooconservative (#27)

I didn't state it very well last night. I knew that at the time.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-22 08:11:48   Reply   Private Reply

#30: Tooconservative    To: A K A Stone (#29)

No, you were clear enough. Gatlin was merely "apologizing" strategically as a way to continue to try to advance his own argument that you are profoundly wrong (but you have every right to be wrong in a way so mysterious that Gatlin cannot possibly even comprehend that you might hold a reasonable fact-based opinion).

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology". If he isn't wrong about the matter, why should he apologize at all? Why should you accept this condescending "apology" if Gatlin continues to say he doesn't understand why he is "apologizing"?

This business of "I don't know what I'm sorry for but I sincerely apologize for everything" is never a sincere apology in any way. It is a way to placate an impulsive child or a vindictive hysterical woman or a senile person.

Gatlin is humoring you, probing for weakness. That's all his "apology" means. It's the sort of thing a con man makes their living from.

Tooconservative posted on 2019-09-22 08:27:27   Reply   Private Reply

#31: Gatlin    To: A K A Stone (#28)

They are using a law for prohibit free speech.

Since congress shall make no law.....

You can believe some lawyer talk …

I understand that you are saying the DOJ is using a law to prohibit Snowden’s “freedom of speech.” Although he admittedly is in full violation of the non-disclosure agreement [contract] he signed with the agencies.

Let me see – how shall I properly express my take on this to you …

I will start by saying, Yes – they are using a law to prosecute him. But they are not using a law to prohibit his free speech. They are suinging him for breach of contract.

Please permit me to give you an example …

Okay. Let’s say that you [A K A Stone} want to come to work for me [Gatlin] and before I hire you, I have you sign a written agreement [contact] whereby you formally and legally agree that you will never tell anyone anything about me. But after you sign that agreement [contract] and come to work for me, you learn some things about me that you want to tell everybody about. So you say to me: “I am going to tell everyone things about you.” And then you proceed to do just that. Well, after you do that – I can then sue you for breech of contract and I will not be “ using a law [to] prohibit free speech.”

That, my dear friend, is as clear as I can possibly make it. And that is exactly what is happening between the DOJ and Snowden.

It has nothing – ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – to do with his freedom of speech.

And I close by wishing a happy Sunday morning to you.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-22 09:30:17   Reply   Private Reply

#32: Liberator    To: sneakypete (#15)

When you have a security clearance you sign documents promising you will never reveal any information you gain due to the access your clearance gives you,and agree to the punishments outlined on the papers you sign.

This applies to Snowden.

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?

If you don't want to go to prison,either don't sign the papers and take the job,or stay silent.

So. Break the law. Murder people. It's ok cuz, "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS", eh? Worked well in the Reich.

Liberator posted on 2019-09-22 09:58:46   Reply   Private Reply

#33: Liberator    To: sneakypete (#17)

So they are cleverly keeping it out of circulation by allowing Amazon to sell it via mail order?

They apparently haven't much choice in the matter. Unless they openly assassinate him.

It's not as though the reptilian global spy agencies are "cleverly" and secretly wanting Snowden's book published -- is that what you're inferring?

Liberator posted on 2019-09-22 10:01:41   Reply   Private Reply

#34: misterwhite    To: Liberator (#11)

They still don't want the book read and info shared, do they?

I have no idea. It does appear, however, that they don't want classified information released.

misterwhite posted on 2019-09-22 11:28:08   Reply   Private Reply

#35: Liberator    To: misterwhite (#34)

...they don't want classified information released.

I concur.

But additionally, they also don't like their entire operation exposed as illegal, immoral, dishonest, and abuse of authority and resources.

Liberator posted on 2019-09-22 11:32:42   Reply   Private Reply

#36: Liberator    To: Gatlin, A K A Stone, Deckard (#31)

Please permit me to give you an example …

Okay. Let’s say that you [A K A Stone} want to come to work for me [Gatlin] and before I hire you, I have you sign a written agreement [contact] whereby you formally and legally agree that you will never tell anyone anything about me. But after you sign that agreement [contract] and come to work for me, you learn some things about me that you want to tell everybody about.

Maintaining privacy about personal matters are one thing....

It's when acts and events start adversely affecting others.

Would this mythical case of this written/oral contract (or oath) also necessarily exonerate you from extenuating circumstances -- like committing treason, hurting people, and committing other highly illegal, immoral acts?

By demanding oaths, isn't one justifying a "Code of Honor" among thieves, rogues and scoundrels?

THIS is one reason God has explicitly frowned upon taking oaths to men in Scripture. THEY become authority over God's Law.

Liberator posted on 2019-09-22 11:44:12   Reply   Private Reply

#37: misterwhite    To: Liberator (#35)

But additionally, they also don't like their entire operation exposed as illegal, immoral, dishonest, and abuse of authority and resources.

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

misterwhite posted on 2019-09-22 11:56:16   Reply   Private Reply

#38: A K A Stone    To: Gatlin (#31)

I understand that you are saying the DOJ is using a law to prohibit Snowden’s “freedom of speech.” Although he admittedly is in full violation of the non-disclosure agreement [contract] he signed with the agencies. Let me see – how shall I properly express my take on this to you …

No matter how you cut it they are using a law to silence him.

No search warrants shall be issued except describing the exact place to be searched and what they are searching for with the permission a a judge.

Well they don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls. They were breading the law. Snowden is a brave patriot for exposing the treasonous government.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-22 12:01:01   Reply   Private Reply

#39: A K A Stone    To: misterwhite (#37)

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

You are hinting that he said what we already knew.

Well if that is the case then you should shut up we already knew what he said.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-22 12:02:26   Reply   Private Reply

#40: Liberator    To: misterwhite (#37)

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

Well to be honest, most people still did NOT believe Snowden's revelations -- given the MSM and goobermint tag-teaming smear of Snowden as a malcontent and rat who "jeopardized America's national security."

THIS BOOK DOCUMENTS an entire operation of what was/is still an illegal, immoral, dishonest polcy and abuse by authority and resources.

Q: Do you believe there is good moral standing, legal standing and reason to surveil every single American's movement and life of every America? And if so, by what Constitutional Law or common sense reason?

Liberator posted on 2019-09-22 12:03:44   Reply   Private Reply

#41: A K A Stone    To: misterwhite (#34)

It does appear, however, that they don't want classified information released.

Yeah they don't want their confidential crimes exposed. Snowden exposed treason and the people responsible should pay the heaviest price.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-22 12:04:24   Reply   Private Reply

#42: Liberator    To: A K A Stone, Gatlin (#38)

...They don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls.

They were brea[k]ing the law.

Snowden is a brave patriot for exposing the treasonous government.

Truth.

Liberator posted on 2019-09-22 12:05:39   Reply   Private Reply

#43: misterwhite    To: A K A Stone (#41)

Snowden exposed treason

Where's THAT headline? Let's get those details out there into the public arena. Where are they?

misterwhite posted on 2019-09-22 12:57:12   Reply   Private Reply

#44: CZ82    To: Tooconservative (#30)

No, you were clear enough. Gatlin was merely "apologizing" strategically as a way to continue to try to advance his own argument that you are profoundly wrong (but you have every right to be wrong in a way so mysterious that Gatlin cannot possibly even comprehend that you might hold a reasonable fact-based opinion).

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology". If he isn't wrong about the matter, why should he apologize at all? Why should you accept this condescending "apology" if Gatlin continues to say he doesn't understand why he is "apologizing"?

This business of "I don't know what I'm sorry for but I sincerely apologize for everything" is never a sincere apology in any way. It is a way to placate an impulsive child or a vindictive hysterical woman or a senile person.

Gatlin is humoring you, probing for weakness. That's all his "apology" means. It's the sort of thing a con man makes their living from.

CZ82 posted on 2019-09-22 13:02:55   Reply   Private Reply

#45: Gatlin    To: A K A Stone (#38)

Well they don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls. They were breading the law.
While hat is true about “everyone’s” calls, your old buddy Rand Paul said that the NSA is empowered to spy on Americans’ communications without a warrant.

Huh – you say.

Well, it turns out that Rand Paul is absolutely correct.

Let’s understand how that is …

Rand Paul was asked about President Trump’s accusation that President Obama ordered the NSA to wiretap his calls. The Kentucky senator expressed skepticism about the mechanics of Trump’s specific charge, saying: “I doubt that Trump was a target directly of any kind of eavesdropping.” But he then made a broader and more crucial point about how the U.S. government spies on Americans’ communications — a point that is deliberately obscured and concealed by U.S. government defenders.

Paul explained how the NSA routinely and deliberately spies on Americans’ communications — listens to their calls and reads their emails — without a judicial warrant of any kind:

The way it works is, the FISA court, through Section 702, wiretaps foreigners and then [NSA] listens to Americans. It is a backdoor search of Americans. And because they have so much data, they can tap — type Donald Trump into their vast resources of people they are tapping overseas, and they get all of his phone calls.

And so they did this to President Obama. They — 1,227 times eavesdrops on President Obama’s phone calls. Then they mask him. But here is the problem. And General Hayden said this the other day. He said even low-level employees can unmask the caller. That is probably what happened to Flynn.

They are not targeting Americans. They are targeting foreigners. But they are doing it purposefully to get to Americans.

Paul’s explanation is absolutely correct. That the NSA is empowered to spy on Americans’ communications without a warrant — in direct contravention of the core Fourth Amendment guarantee that “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause” — is the dirty little secret of the U.S. Surveillance State.

[…]

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/13/rand-paul-is-right-nsa-routinely-monitors- americans-communications-without-warrants/

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-22 20:42:45   Reply   Private Reply

#46: sneakypete    To: Liberator (#32)

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

How do you know the government didn't apply for,and get a search warrant?

You don't. There IS such a thing as classified search warrants.

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-22 22:02:12   Reply   Private Reply

#47: sneakypete    To: Liberator (#33)

It's not as though the reptilian global spy agencies are "cleverly" and secretly wanting Snowden's book published -- is that what you're inferring?

No,I am merely stating the obvious. The book and the classified info in it are already in the public domain,and you can't unring a bell.

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-22 22:03:59   Reply   Private Reply

#48: sneakypete    To: Liberator (#32)

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

How the HELL are they doing that?

To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?

To the Federal Government,and NOBODY MAKES you take the oath or sign the paper. You are free to walk away if you want.

So. Break the law. Murder people. It's ok cuz, "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS", eh? Worked well in the Reich.

When did you turn into a hysterical drama queen?

One word for you,"Midol".

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-23 01:26:36   Reply   Private Reply

#49: sneakypete    To: Liberator (#40)

Q: Do you believe there is good moral standing, legal standing and reason to surveil every single American's movement and life of every America? And if so, by what Constitutional Law or common sense reason?

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-23 01:31:55   Reply   Private Reply

#50: Tooconservative    To: sneakypete (#16)

You don't think the Feebs didn't spy on recent German immigrants during WW-2? Hell,they put Japanese people who were born as US citizens in internment camps for the duration of the war.

They put a significant number of Germans in America in the same kind of internment camps for the duration of the war. Interestingly, they were kept confined longer than the Japanese were after the war ended in 1945. These were the German American Bund which is a nice name to use instead of American Nazi Party (which was later established as a party in the Fifties).

Wiki: Internment of German Americans
Shortly after the Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor, some 1,260 German nationals were detained and arrested, as the government had been watching them.[26] Of the 254 persons not of Japanese ancestry evicted from coastal areas, the majority were ethnic German.[27] During WWII, German nationals and German Americans in the US were detained and/or evicted from coastal areas on an individual basis. Although the War Department (now the Department of Defense) considered mass expulsion of ethnic Germans and ethnic Italians from the East or West coast areas for reasons of military security, it did not follow through with this. The numbers of people involved would have been overwhelming to manage.[28]

A total of 11,507 people of German ancestry were interned during the war, comprising 36.1% of the total internments under the US Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program.[29] By contrast, an estimated 110,000–120,000 Japanese-Americans were forcibly relocated from the West Coast and incarcerated in internment camps run by the US War Department's War Relocation Authority.

WarHistoryOnline: The Internment Camps of Germans in America During WW2
... After Germany surrendered, many of the internees were released and sent to Germany. Others remained in the camp. It was not until 1948 that the last “enemy alien” was released – three years after the war had ended.

None of these internees was ever found guilty of a crime or proven to be a threat to national security.

Those who were released back to their homes were obliged to sign a secrecy agreement regarding the time they spent in the camp. They were under threat of being returned to Germany if they breached the terms of the agreement. Staff who had worked at the camps also had to agree to secrecy. ...

Tooconservative posted on 2019-09-23 10:07:52   Reply   Private Reply

#51: Deckard    To: Tooconservative, A K A Stone (#30)

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

Deckard posted on 2019-09-23 10:13:20   Reply   Private Reply

#52: Gatlin    To: Deckard, A K A Stone (#51)

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

Look uo the “Columbo Method” … Never mind, just read this version:
The key to the Columbo Method is to remember that all you really know is that the facts are conflicting. You don’t know for sure what else might be going on. So you carefully approach the situation in a humble way pleading lack of knowledge for if you approach the situation with an accusatory tone, assuming that the person is either incorrect or lying, then they most probably will get defensive. They will then check out mentally from the conversation and you will get nowhere. When you politely use the Columbo Method, it is more likely that the person will courteously open up and you get your point across better. All the while leaving the relationship intact.
Uh, let me see now, Deckard.

Hmmm…

Where were we?

Please help me correctly understand.

I think you said that “gaslighting” is a “very apt description of Gatlin’s tactics.”

I am a very old man, and I sometimes don’t get things straight.

Did I get that right?

Well, if that be so – then I guess that my “Columbo Method” needs more practice.

Obviously …

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-23 10:40:45   Reply   Private Reply

#53: Gatlin    To: Deckard (#51)

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

Look up the “Columbo Method” … Never mind, just read this version:
The key to the Columbo Method is to remember that all you really know is that the facts are conflicting. You don’t know for sure what else might be going on. So you carefully approach the situation in an humble way pleading lack of knowledge for if you approach the situation with an accusatory tone, assuming that the person is either incorrect or lying, then they most probably will get defensive. They will then check out mentally from the conversation and you will get nowhere. When you politely use the Columbo Method, it is more likely that the person will courteously open up and you get your point across better. All the while leaving the relationship intact.
Uh, let me see now, Deckard.

Hmmm…

Where were we?

Please help me correctly understand.

I think you said that “gaslighting” is a “very apt description of Gatlin’s tactics.”

I am a very old man, and I sometimes don’t get things straight.

Did I get that right?

Well, if that be so – then I guess I need to practice on my “Columbo Method” needs more practice

Obviously … Edit: Since I am so generous this morning – I will let you in on another of my techniques. I always start my effective price negotiations with “ I am an old man on fixed income and …”

Depending on the price and profit margin involved, that usually will get me five to ten percent right from the start.

Then I move ever so slowly forward with a hesitantly speech pattern using a modified “dumb” Columbo Method and work towards twenty five percent in my favor. Or, as close as I can get. I do often time use the “walk away” knowing full well they need to sell more that I want to buy.

I Have now shared with you, two secrets this morning. I will tell you more of my secrets. But it will cost you – dearly.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin posted on 2019-09-23 10:57:46   Reply   Private Reply

#54: Deckard    To: Gatlin (#53)

I will tell you more of my secrets.

Keep your perversions to yourself freakshow.

Deckard posted on 2019-09-23 11:19:11   Reply   Private Reply

#55: A K A Stone    To: Gatlin (#53)

“ I am an old man on fixed income and …”

Depending on the price and profit margin involved, that usually will get me five to ten percent right from the start.

I'm a contractor and I hear that line I think hmm. I'll charge them a little more for trying to con me. They pay. lol.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-23 11:55:46   Reply   Private Reply

#56: A K A Stone    To: sneakypete (#49)

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

So if the government wants to do something unconstitutional. They just make you sign a paper so if you find out you can't tell anyone.

That's a pretty fucked up view of how things should work imo.

A K A Stone posted on 2019-09-23 11:57:12   Reply   Private Reply

#57: sneakypete    To: Tooconservative (#50)

They put a significant number of Germans in America in the same kind of internment camps for the duration of the war.

I know. The difference is they were recent immigrants,not citizens. 2nd and 3rd generation Japanese went into the internment camps.

Nobody likes to talk about this,but the truth is the Japanese who had US citizenship should be happy about this because they had MP's protecting them from attack. I had a friend whose father enlisted in the 442nd Regimental Combat Team,a unit composed entirely of Japanese Americans,and rumored to have been the most decorated US Army unit of WW-2.

His uncle left home to enlist too,but was caught and beaten by his fellow Chicago citizens on the way to the enlistment office,and spent the rest of his life wearing diapers and being spoon fed.

The German Americans were lucky in that respect. The recent ones couldn't be told from any other American if they didn't have an accent or kept their mouths shut. The Japanese Americans weren't that fortunate.

sneakypete posted on 2019-09-23 12:04:35   Reply   Private Reply