Fire Did Not Cause 3rd Tower’s Collapse on 9/11

Uh, yeah, it did.

"Fires on Floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 burned out of control, because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system had failed. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city's water supply. Those water lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and 2."

"After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires, a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building. Floor 13 collapsed, beginning a cascade of floor failures to Floor 5. Column 79, no longer supported by a girder, buckled, triggering a rapid succession of structural failures that moved from east to west. All 23 central columns, followed by the exterior columns, failed in what's known as a "progressive collapse"--that is, local damage that spreads from one structural element to another, eventually resulting in the collapse of the entire structure."

After 7 hours of uncontrolled fires

a steel girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to one of the 81 columns supporting the building

You would actually need a 'controlled fire' in order to cut steel. The fire would have to be highly concentrated, mixed carefully with oxygen under high pressure in order to even make a dent in steel. An acetylene torch (or nowadays, a plasma cutter) cuts steel.

Thermite will also cut or weld steel depending on what you want it to do.

An uncontrolled fire will not touch steel, which just begins to melt at 2500F.

An uncontrolled fire will not touch steel, which just begins to melt at 2500F.

The steel doesn't need to melt, just soften, and it does that around 1,000°F (500°C).

The steel doesn't need to melt, just soften, and it does that around 1,000°F (500°C).

I have yearly chimney fires that get hotter than that (1000-2000F). The flimsy pipe just glows red without any warping (it is scary though!).

Think about that massive beam hidden deep in the structure. You'd have to heat that beam (probably coated in fire retardant?) way beyond cherry to cause any movement. The joint, which is either welded or riveted, would then have to fail. The joint is designed not to fail, especially with mere warping. Multiple inspectors signed off on the joint as it was created.

The problem with heating, cutting or melting steel is that as you heat the surface, the heat is wicked away by the rest of the steel. Those beams in sky scrapers are massive, probably minimum 3/4 inch plate (although I don't have the exact specs). The possibility of getting any uniform heat into that beam by normal building fire is, well, impossible.

That's why I listen when the engineers speak. They know the exact specs, load capacity, deflection under every temperature, wind velocity, etc. You name it, they know it.

The problem with heating, cutting or melting steel is that as you heat the surface, the heat is wicked away by the rest of the steel.

The fire burned for 7 hours.

"The flimsy pipe just glows red without any warping"

Was it supporting 100,000 tons?

Was it supporting 100,000 tons?

That's an important factor. The building is an integral unit, all the pieces of the building supporting itself as one rigid structure. All that tonnage load would be distributed evenly, by architectural and engineering calculation.

Also, for one beam to move, first, there would have to be space for it to move to. And I'm not talking about some space created by a fire.

Think of how much effort it would take to extricate that beam and replace it. A huge void around the beam would need to be created. Other massive beams that are connected to the beam would need to be disconnected.

In other words, the beam and joint that we are told failed was not just sitting out in space, with a toasty fire heating it up to melting point. I say melting point because somewhere along the beam or joint there would need to be extensive cutting taking place.

Also, for one beam to move, first, there would have to be space for it to move to.

It would soften and sag, causing the end to pull away from the support column.

One look at that headline in the sidebar and I knew what it was.

I must be psychic.

I'll bet it's a riot.

And then there are the after-hours orgies. Dancing Israelis and jubilant Muslims (which Donald Trump saw personally), they can cater to every kink.

Video:

Dancing Israelis

Fake news huh?

The Five Dancing "Israelis" Arrested On 9-11

In fact they tell you important information that confirms what I basically knew: the WTC beams were massive, they were covered in fire retardant, the jet fuel was burned up in seconds.

The toothpick beam they show in the video is not connected at either end. It is given maximum room to move (warp). The fire was controlled and focused directly under the beam.

Not even close to being a true test of the WTC, but it looks convincing to the average American citizen looking for answers.

You should listen carefully to what the architects/engineers say (at great peril in losing their careers)

A new study by Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven.

Users (the few that remain) of this site can always count on a healthy dose of 9/11 or flat earth kookery. We are like the One Who Flew Over The Kookoo’s nest or the political forums.

Users (the few that remain) of this site can always count on a healthy dose of 9/11 or flat earth kookery.

What we need is a new theory of 9/11 and the Flat Earth.

Not just 9/11, not just a flat earth - they've both been done to death - but a grand theory to unify the two into one giant Kookarama.

That would really put LF on the map. We could get dozens of new kooks members posting here with something like that.

The history of the lithium mineral water sales from upstate New York is interesting. That was quite a booming little industry back in the day.

the WTC beams were massive, they were covered in fire retardant, the jet fuel was burned up in seconds.

Have you shifted from WTC7 to WTC1 & WTC2?

OK. Those fires burned for 1-2 hours, not four minutes, the impact of the plane knocked the fire retardant off the beams, and the average building fire reaches temperatures of 2,000 degrees without jet fuel.

The jet fuel exacerbated the problem by starting fires on multiple floors simultaneously.

Have you shifted from WTC7 to WTC1 & WTC2?

With you, misterwhite, I was talking wtc7

Gatlin's video deals primarily with wtc1&2 (Gatlin pinged me to his vid)

Wtc7 received no plane hit or jet fuel

With this in mind, can you please explain to me exactly what I am missing when it is said that “fire” caused the collapse of 17 story building in Terhran Italy – an uncontrolled fire that occurred with no jet fuel even involved.

You mean, without having a Con-Ed power station with diesel fuel in the large storage tanks? Or just questioning the quality of building materials used in major NYC construction projects from time to time? NYC is known for building projects of sub-standard construction overall, part of its longstanding reputation for corruption in the building and sanitation trades.

The Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven rarely want to discuss those in detail.

I must be psychic.

So what happened with the third airplane? Did it hit the WTC7, or missed?

The Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven ...

Yet another reason I like you ...

Terhran Italy

Couldn't find Terhran Italy...

Do you mean the Plasco Building in Tehran, Iran.

I doubt that the Plasco Building even needed a fire to cause it's collapse.

Have you ever watched videos of construction in places like Iran?

They don't even know how to operate cranes in Tehran.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=tChi81KfMa8

So what happened with the third airplane? Did it hit the WTC7, or missed?

I dunno, you tell me. Sounds like you already have a strong opinion.

They don't even know how to operate cranes in Tehran.

They seem to know how to hang homosexuals in public from them.

I'm not sure why their appalling human rights record is so overlooked. Probably because the Interracial Wonder Boy (0bama) cut a deal with the butchers of Tehran.

It's our duty to bring regimes like that to their knees, not placate their nuclear ambitions and give them tons of money to lead the entire region in going nuclear.

Sounds like you already have a strong opinion.

Ha ha ha. It is YOU who "already have a strong opinion"! I do not know what really happened.

But since you are so smart, please explain me why the third building was destroyed. What exactly caused it?

But since you are so smart, please explain me why the third building was destroyed. What exactly caused it?

Since you're doing your passive-aggressive Grand Inquisitor routine, why don't you explain it to us?

You obviously have some very strong kook mojo going about it.

Anvil - hammer

He makes meTal objecTs

OuT of iT

The volcano - Tower

Torch - GraviTy

Made a molTen mess

Of The TT's

Bldg # 7 Too

Love
boris

The Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven ... Yet another reason I like you ...

Here we have the same old bleating sheep and "official" government fairy-take shills weighing in with their ignorance.

I can understand why you left.

I can understand why you left.

If you REALLY understood, you’d fucking leave too... and hide out on a few acres of wooded land, far from big bad gov, located in the corner of the flat earth.

Expressing you doubt does in no way supply any scientifically supporting evidence.

Therefore I read a journal review by the Hong Kong Polytechnic University, International Journal of High Rise Buildings, Preliminary Modelling of the Plasco Building.

Conclusion: The Plasco collapse is only SIMILAR to the WTC collapse. The final sentence of the conclusion is that the similarities have NOT actually been found and significant further studies are required.

Of note: the authors believe that it is extremely important for structural engineers to analyze major failures with great care and dedication, such as is routine in other industries, in order to promote robustness/resilience of buildings that have similar vulnerabilities.

That is why all of our architects and engineers need to study the WTC collapse and be given our utmost support.

The Institute of Northern Engineering is conducting such a study and are at this moment reaching conclusions that differ from the official report.

The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.

Since you're doing your passive-aggressive Grand Inquisitor routine, why don't you explain it to us?

As I said, I do not know what happened there. It seems, you do not know either.

But you are ranting and raving for some reason.

But you are ranting and raving for some reason.

I thought you were the hysterical one, judging by your posts.

I thought you were the hysterical one, judging by your posts.

A nice cop out.

a wee bit differently

I may well attribute this to my advancing age.

Looks about the same to me.

The only difference is that you pasted the whole conclusion, while I provided a simple summation of the conclusion. I did that primarily because it was late and I couldn't figure out how to copy/paste from a pdf. That's why I gave you the exact title of the journal review...so you could find it and read it for yourself.

Well, your advancing age hasn't spared me from your biting wit, Mr. Gatlin!

I say let's encourage more studies. There has been a vilification of anyone who would dare challenge the "official report". Engineers are funny creatures...they have their reputations, and their inquisitive minds.

On a lighter note, I think you like gospel music and the mandolin. Maybe you have heard these boys before, but lately I think of you when I play this particular album of theirs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q...uQH_UIHGQfty_y87uEXtGLdNp

That is why all of our architects and engineers need to study the WTC collapse and be given our utmost support.

Archtect: Well, I finished the design of the building. It meets all the engineering standards and will cost $10 million.

Buyer: Ah. But will it survive a fully fueled 767 crashing into it at 600 mph, extensive structural damage, and fires burning out of control for 7 hours?

Architect: Sure. But that will bring the cost to $100 million. Still want the building?

who had expected the buildings to survive airplane impacts.

Both buildings survived the airplane impacts. It was the fire started on multiple floors by the jet fuel coupled with the failure of the sprinkler system coupled with the exposed steel beams that caused the collapse.

They act kinda like they are afflicted with the “Dog Chasing Tail Syndrome”

Their theories consist solely of unanswered questions. No proof is ever offered.

And they are always unsuccessfully trying to show what didn't happen.

Because they have absolutely no way of ever showing what actually happened.

A total mixed up lot of good-for-nothing misfits ...

Have we covered pretty much everything in our accurate descriptive analysis?

Yea ...

Both buildings survived the airplane impacts. It was the fire started on multiple floors ...

So what hit WTC7 building?

So what hit WTC7 building?

Debris from the collapse of WTC1, which started fires on 10 floors simultaneously.

If you REALLY understood, you’d fucking leave too...

Attaboy! What you are trying say is that the site needs more cop suckers like you, right?

What you are trying say is that the site needs more cop suckers

It certainly doesn’t need any more foil hat wearing 6% assholes, banned from other sites for their kookery.

You flat earth kook. lol

"So what hit WTC7 building?"

Debris from the collapse of WTC1, which started fires on 10 floors simultaneously.

Debris? Could you provide sources?

(https://web.archive.org/web/20070809030232/http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_ june04/appendixl.pdf)

You flat earth kook. lol

I don't subscribe to that theory pig boy...but then you'd know that if you had an IQ above room temperature.

But by all means, keep up you quest for a cop- worshiping echo chamber, one where any opinions that deviate from the "official" government- approved 9/11 fairy tale are verboten.

You might want to run that past Stone - he's one of us.

Here's a link that completely debunks your fairy tale narrative:

The Most Outrageous 9/11 Conspiracy Theory

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.

Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours, the Administration knew within the day, and the evidence literally fell into the FBI’s lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history.

The investigation was delayed, underfunded, set up to fail, a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was based on testimony extracted through torture, the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of WTC7, Able Danger, Ptech, Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the Pentagon, the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney…well, no one knows what they told it because they testified in secret, off the record, not under oath and behind closed doors. It didn’t bother to look at who funded the attacks because that question is of “little practical significance“. Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all of the questions the public had (except most of the victims’ family members’ questions) and pinned blame on all the people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were “a failure of imagination” because “I don’t think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings ” except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD and the NRO.

The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that’s OK because it probably wasn’t important.

The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that’s OK because destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping.

NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7′s collapse, but that’s OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would “jeopardize public safety“.

The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that’s OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide.

This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him, him, him, and her. (and her and her and him).

Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team raid which wasn’t recorded on video, in which he didn’t resist or use his wife as a human shield, and in which these crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a couple dozen of that team’s members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.

This is the story of 9/11, brought to you by the media which told you the hard truths about JFK and incubator babies and mobile production facilities and the rescue of Jessica Lynch.

[....]

oh and BTW...... at least 7 of the 19 alleged "hijackers" are still alive and well...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

wtc.nist.gov

Hahahahaha!!!

metabunk.org

Bwahahahaha!

If you REALLY understood, [Deckard] you'd fucking leave ...

But - but - but -

Then we would lose our human punching bag.

I don't subscribe to that theory

You defend those that do. Let’s face it, if we had poster that hated cops like you do but was a self proclaimed shit eater, you’d be as nice as pie to them.

Go fuck yourself, criminal cocksucker.

Then we would lose our human punching bag.

He won’t go nowhere, this is his only resource. Every other site would ban his ass after his normal disruptive behavior and endless yella propaganda.

metabunk.org

Bwahahahaha!

Didn't bother to read the links, did you?

You guys are a hoot-and-a-half.

What a bunch of deluded and brainwashed tools.

As the North Tower collapsed on September 11, 2001, heavy debris hit 7 World Trade Center, damaging the south face of the building and starting fires

This debris was like a burning incendiary napalm? What was the content of it? Was it the same whitish cloud that we see on video clips?

What was the content of it?

WTC1.

Fire Did Not Cause 3rd Tower’s Collapse on 9/11

So what did and where's the evidence?

Crickets

So what did and where's the evidence?

Crickets

Too bad. For now, I will abstain from forming an opinion. Too many known unknowns.