It is simple and should be easily understood.

The pageant has a statement posted on its website that the pageant is a "No Politics" pageant. Williams signed an agreement to keep her politics separate from her pageant social media page. The pageant statement also says, in part, "Ms. Williams acknowledged both verbally and in writing that she understood these rules before she was accepted into the pageant. The Ms. America Pageant has confirmed that it has removed Williams from their competition.

Williams said she didn’t violate her signed agreement – the pageant said she did. The pageant said that Williams was posting her Trump-related political content to the Ms. Nevada Facebook page which is strictly prohibited.

Result:

Williams 0 - Pageant 1.

Adios, Katie …

Williams has also published alleged screenshots of online exchanges with Jeske, which appear to show that the pageant director encouraged her to take pictures with President Trump and his son, Donald Trump Jr., while wearing the Miss Nevada sash and crown.

I think these kinds of events should be about their stated activities, not let anyone decide they want to create a platform for their own politics. For that matter, I'd like to see Hollyweird, the music industry, sports use that same standard. People don't want to see politics and don't want to know the politics of competitors. They just want their movies, music and sports. Not more politics being injected to absolutely everything in public life.

It surprises me that people don't see this. Americans kinda hate politics and they rarely choose to have more of it mixed in with their entertainment.

Williams claimed -

… that the organisers continued to voice their disapproval in personal communications of what she was posting on her personal account.

The pageant said -

… that Williams was posting her Trump-related political content to the Ms. Nevada Facebook page which is strictly prohibited.

Score:

Williams 0 – Pageant 1.

… published alleged screenshots of online exchanges with Jeske, which appear to show that the pageant director encouraged her to take pictures with President Trump and his son, Donald Trump Jr., while wearing the Miss Nevada sash and crown.

Uh, did you per chance catch the key words “alleged” and “appear?” With that aside, she was not prohibited from taking pictures with anyone while wearing the Miss Nevada sash and crown to be used to promote the pageant.

“No Harm – No Foul.”

“Williams broke a rule – The pageant ejected her.”

You seem to have many problems, Deckard. A reading assignment for you that should be of great benefit to help with one of those problems: Lesson Two - Accepting Authority.

I don't disagree with the pageant.

Normally I would agree with you.

I think these kinds of events should be about their stated activities, not let anyone decide they want to create a platform for their own politics.

Apparently she was told to run separate social media accounts – one where she could voice her opinions and an ‘apolitical’ one for the contest.

It appears that is exactly what she did.

In addition, it appears she may have been tricked or duped by the pageant director who she claims "encouraged her to take pictures with President Trump and his son, Donald Trump Jr., while wearing the Miss Nevada sash and crown. "

If that is indeed true, and she claims to have screenshots of those communications, seems pretty clear that this is a set-up from the start.

I'm not a huge fan of Trump, but Miss Williams should not be punished for supporting him on her personal facebook account.

It's not as if she wore a MAGA hat during the swimsuit competition or praised Trump in her acceptance speech.

Apparently she was told to run separate social media accounts – one where she could voice her opinions and an ‘apolitical’ one for the contest.

It appears that is exactly what she did.

In addition, it appears she may have been tricked or duped by the pageant director who she claims "encouraged her to take pictures with President Trump and his son, Donald Trump Jr., while wearing the Miss Nevada sash and crown. "

If that is indeed true, and she claims to have screenshots of those communications, seems pretty clear that this is a set-up from the start.

Deckard, listen to me – Listen to me, Deckard.

STOP AND LISTEN VERY INTENLY TO ME …

There, now – Start to read very carefully:

Williams signed an agreement to keep her politics separate from her pageant social media page. The pageant said that Ms. Williams acknowledged both verbally and in writing that she understood these rules before she was accepted into the pageant. The pageant also said that Williams was posting her Trump-related political content to the Ms. Nevada Facebook page which is strictly prohibited.

DO YOU CLEARLY UNDERSTAND THAT?

If what the pageant stated were not true, then Williams could sue the hell out of them, be reinstated and take home a “boat-load of money”.

In the situation here – as it is many times with you – It is pure and simple that:

Effective communication is a two-way street. When someone is telling another person something and the other person is not paying attention because they are of the type who is going to think “fuck the rules” and “fuck authority” – and then damned well do what they want to do anyway, communication will be ineffective. There are people this way, Deckard, you are one of those people. “Listening” is very simple – however it takes skill and practice in order to perfect it. There is hope for you to learn. Start now …

Williams signed an agreement to keep her politics separate from her pageant social media page. The pageant said that Ms. Williams acknowledged both verbally and in writing that she understood these rules before she was accepted into the pageant

According to the dethroned beauty queen, the organisers told her to run separate social media accounts – one where she could voice her opinions and an ‘apolitical’ one for the contest.

However, despite creating a second Facebook account, she kept getting complaints about her pro-Trump messages and criticism of the group Antifa on her personal page.

The pageant also said that Williams was posting her Trump-related political content to the Ms. Nevada Facebook page which is strictly prohibited.

Proof? Other than the claim made by the "voice of authority"?

It is Williams made the charge – Ergo, it is Williams who must provide the proof.

The burden of proof is always on the person who brings a claim.

Right, libertarian …

You're wrong you should be a able to have a personal life too.

Does “having a personal life” mean having the right to unilaterally breech a written agreement [contract] and break the terms set forth in such agreement?

Nothing she did was wrong.

How do you figure that when it is reported that Williams signed a ”legally binding written agreement” to keep her politics separate from her ”pageant social media page”.

It is also reported that the pageant said that Ms. Williams acknowledged both verbally and in writing that she understood these rules before she was accepted into the pageant.

It is further reported that the pageant stated that Williams was posting her Trump-related political content to the Ms. Nevada Facebook page which is strictly prohibited.

A legally binding written agreement is an agreement which is valid and therefore enforceable. It means that the parties who have signed the agreement are expected to fulfil their obligations under the agreement. If they do not, they may be penalised. Although agreements do not have to be written to be legally binding, it is a good idea to have a written record of what you have agreed to. This minimises the risk of a dispute by ensuring you and the other party are on the same page. This article explains the requirements you need to satisfy to have a legally binding written agreement.

Continued HERE.

I ask you ever so kindly to please explain to me how you figure: “nothing she did was wrong.” I am sincerely interested in your rational.

There is no breach of the contract.

She used her personal facebook account to make political comments

Story and FOX News report HERE

"Williams claims that she did create a separate social media account, but alleges an official "continued to screenshot my page, my personal page, and email me about how she was disappointed and she didn’t agree with it and that I needed to speak with her on the phone."

According to Ms. America CEO Susan Jeske, Williams continued to make mentions of the Ms. America competition on her personal page.

"If you're putting pageant stuff on your personal page, then that's a pageant page," Jeske told NBC.

Noah Jennings, Williams' spokesman, told Newsweek that Jeske was allegedly sending "mixed signals” to his client.

“Ms. America CEO Susan Jeske, who would encourage Katie over the phone, and then follow that up with emails and screenshots of things she took issue with,” Jennings said. “Katie separated pages, combed through to remove posts, and overall made every effort to comply with the requests of the pageant.”

Williams, who did not immediately respond to Yahoo Lifestyle’s requests for comment, told Newsweek:

"I was censored for my beliefs. I was excited to compete in this pageant — everything was ready to go for this weekend — and so to have that opportunity taken away from me so quickly feels like a slap in the face. The entire reason I participated in pageants in the first place was to provide young women like my daughter with a strong role model to look up to."

Williams was deployed with the Army National Guard to Afghanistan in 2008-09 and is currently a fitness instructor.

***

I believe the obfuscation was done deliberately by the pageant director to insure that Miss Williams' title would be revoked when she won.

There is no breach of the contract.

Show me the part of the contract she broke.

You can't it's you speculating what the contract says.

[To TC earlier] - You're wrong you should be a able to have a personal life too.

Does “having a personal life” mean having the right to unilaterally breech a written agreement [contract] and break the terms set forth in such agreement?

I will be off forum for a couple of hours – I will read you reply later.

She used her personal facebook account to make political comments

“However, the Ms. Nevada Facebook Page should be devoid of political content” – It was NOT.

In a statement, the Ms. America Pageant said Williams is “distorting the facts” about her disqualification.

“All the pageant asked of Ms. Williams, in writing, is to keep separate social media accounts. (ie: Facebook) One is for politics where she can voice her own opinion as Katie Williams and the other is a new Facebook page for the pageant representing Ms. Nevada State 2019,” the statement reads.

“She could be a President Trump supporter on her Personal Facebook page all she wants for everyone to read. However, the Ms. Nevada Facebook Page should be devoid of political content,” it adds. The pageant said it gave Williams a deadline to edit her pages, but that she refused — proving she is “no longer capable of representing this pageant as Ms. Nevada.”

https://nypost.com/2019/08/22/ms-nevada-i-was- stripped-of-beauty-crown-because-i-support-trump/.

You're wrong you should be a ableto have a personal life too. Nothing she did was wrong.

Certainly, she is entitled to her private life. But she put this on her page(s) as a designated competitor who, in some sense, represents the pageant and its rules of decorum and inclusiveness.

However, she undertook certain obligations as a Miss Nevada and as a designated competitor for the national beauty pageant.

And that is the standard by which it must be judged.

If she wants to be in their pageant under contract as an official Miss Nevada and competing for the national title, then she is obligated to fulfill the rules as the pageant dictates. In competing for the state title and for the national title, there are certain requirements to observe. There can't be any lurid scandal associated with the contestant. There has to be a very direct standard for what the eventual winner will do or not do as the title holder. Even if she won the national title, she would have even more obligations to obey the petty dictates of the pageant committee. As she ascended in the beauty pageant contests, her responsibility to obey the committee in all publicity matters only increases until the day she is no longer a state contestant or until the day after she is no longer the national title holder.

She has no recourse to legal action because it's ridiculous to think any state contestant can actually sue their way into winning the national title. And if she can't win the national title, then why even compete since she already has the Miss Nevada title?

She may as well sell out and pose for a girlie mag to pay off college debts and call it a day.

Her only recourse would be if other contestants were using their social media pages as homage to 0bama or Hitlery or one of the current Dem prez candidates. If the pageant took action against only one contestant and not against others doing the same thing, then there might be a (remote) chance of legal action. As long as the rules are applied uniformly, she doesn't have a legal pot to piss in. Even so, the courts are likely to be reluctant to involve themselves in something as subjective as a beauty pageant.

Would you be as willing to demand freedom of speech for a contestant who was carrying water for 0bama or Hitlery or Biden or Warren or some political cause like abortion that you really hate? I think not.

Would you be as willing to demand freedom of speech for a contestant who was carrying water for 0bama or Hitlery or Biden or Warren or some political cause like abortion that you really hate?

I'm not a huge fan of Trump as you may know, nor am I a fan of any of the Dems you mentioned, but this just stinks.

None of those contestants would have been stripped of the title had they won.

The would have been praised and exalted, by the pageant and the medi..

Double standard.

I still contend that she did everything possible to abide by the rules, but the pageant director kept moving the goalposts specifically for her.

"Katie separated pages, combed through to remove posts, and overall made every effort to comply with the requests of the pageant.”

None of those contestants would have been stripped of the title had they won.

They've stripped others of their titles before. Quite a few times actually.

If you are in their pageant and you have signed their contract, you'd better obey their rules. They have all the power and you should know it by the time you have won a state pageant and sign up for the national pageant by signing the contracts.

Their pageant, their rules. Just as the contract says pretty plainly.

Double standard.

You keep saying this or implying it but I have yet to see you provide any proof that other state title holders are doing the same thing on their pages. If it is true, provide some evidence.

If you are in their pageant and you have signed their contract, you'd better obey their rules.

I do believe she followed their rules - it seems clear to me that this was a set-up all along.

You keep saying this or implying it but I have yet to see you provide any proof that other state title holders are doing the same thing on their pages.

It would be naive to think that they didn't.

It would be naive to think that they didn't.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's razor

And the pageant may be taking a more anti-politics stance here, given how sick people are of hearing politics in every sphere of life.

I know I don't watch hardly anything any more because I'm so sick of all the politics in everything. Sports, music, movies, TV, and now beauty pageants.

These hirelings need to keep their fucking opinions to themselves. Not a single person in America craves more politics in their entertainment.

Is there anything else you need from me?

Yeah, quit being to so long winded. Moreover, what did you do to yukon?

If only sports/movies/TV and other venues would embrace the same standard. I'm sick of the politics, especially liberal politics, being injected into everything.

If you want to show your tits and ass in a swimsuit, then just do it. Spare us your political lectures and promotional branding nonsense. After all, we only cared about the tits and ass to begin with.

I do believe she [Katie Williams] followed their rules -

In Post 20 , you will find in a letter from Susan Jeske, CEO Ms. America Pageant, to Katie Jo Williams [dated August 18, 2019] where Susan Jeske enumerated 9 instances in Footnote 2 where Katie Williams violated her signed agreement.

Can you dispute Susan Jeske’s findings or show where Katie Williams did not violate the signed agreement in those instances?

Again I ask, “what is the basis for you to “believe that Katie Williams followed their rules?

it seems clear to me that this was a set-up all along.

You said it “would be naïve” to think that “other state title holders didn’t do the same thing on their pages.” It appears that you are just “thinking” that they are – while you have absolutely no proof that they are. When you're thinking something is happening and there is no proof that it is, then you're imagining it. You need to stop conjuring up these wildly strong justifications to substantiate your weak positions.

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The key phrase that sticks out is the one which declares MAP as the sole arbiter of acceptable conduct and participation and that there is no venue for appeal or for suing the pageant.

Those clauses are illegitimate and you can sue anyway.

You cannot be forced to give up a constitutional right in a contract.

IF you would like to post about your political positions then create a new FB profile page for pageants only

Oh so you can talk about politics.

Those [covenants not to sue] clauses are illegitimate and you can sue anyway.

You are expressing your personal opinion here. In reality you will find that when you try to sue after you have signed a “covenant not to sue” – you will quickly learn that the “suit in law" you desire to have heard in a court of law ”will never go before a court of law.” This is true since “covenants not to sue are used to settle specific legal issues "outside of the court system”.

“A covenant ‘not to sue’ legally obliges a party that could initiate a lawsuit not to do so."
"The covenant is made explicitly between two parties, and any third party that wants to make a claim is legally allowed to do so. Covenants not to sue are used to settle specific legal issues outside of the court system. Parties may enter into this type of agreement to prevent a protracted, expensive lawsuit. In exchange for the covenant, the party that could seek damages may be provided with compensation or may be given assurances that the other party in the agreement will conduct a specific action."

Katie Williams IF you [Katie Williams] would like to post about your political positions then …

Oh so you [Katie Williams] can talk about politics.

You will see in Post 20, a letter from Susan Jeske, CEO Ms. America Pageant, to Katie Jo Williams [dated August 18, 2019] where Susan Jeske enumerated 9 instances in Footnote 2 where Katie Williams violated her signed agreement.

You can also read where Katie Williams was given ample opportunities to “edit” those posts and she “refused” to do so.

It was never about her not being able to “talk politics” – it was always about her not representing herself as “Ms. Nevada” by wearing the crown and sash while “talking politics” and she violated her sign agreement by doing that on at least 9 occasions.

So, Katie, say “goodbye” to your title …

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/nyregion/courts-say-man-can-sue-despite- signing-waiver.html

You can always sue. You may not win but you can sue. Comprende?

However, she added, the organisers failed to address her requests to clarify what content they found to be in breach of their ‘No Politics’ rules.

Williams has created a separate Facebook page for the pageant, devoid of political statements, but she claimed that the organisers continued to voice their disapproval in personal communications of what she was posting on her personal account.

F you would like to post about your political positions then create a new FB profile page for pageants only

She can sue for breach of contract. You can have a political page if it is separate.

You can also read where Katie Williams was given ample opportunities to “edit” those posts and she “refused” to do so.

That's a bald faced lie!

Story and FOX News report HERE

Noah Jennings, Williams' spokesman, told Newsweek that Jeske was allegedly sending "mixed signals” to his client.

“Ms. America CEO Susan Jeske, who would encourage Katie over the phone, and then follow that up with emails and screenshots of things she took issue with,” Jennings said.

“Katie separated pages, combed through to remove posts, and overall made every effort to comply with the requests of the pageant.”

Canning her is a political statement.

These posts, in her words, included a picture of herself wearing a red ‘Trump 2020’ hat as well as expressions of support for the United States and criticism of the leftist political organisation antifa.

Saying that you hate Antifa and one of their thugs murdered 9 people in Dayton Ohio and you wish they would rot in hell. If she said something like that. That is not political.

Did any of them say they were queer on their pages? If so that is political and since they were inconsistent breach of contract.

My point is there are tons of ways to sue them. Not that she will or necessarily should. But she sure can.

What political statements did she make?

Katie Williams was stripped of her title for representing herself as “Ms. Nevada” by wearing the crown and sash when those political statements were made.

Can you even name them [the political statements]?

Since are apparently are so desirous to see those – then you can look them up yourself. You will find the links in Footnote 2 of the REVOCATION OF TITLE LETTER in Post 20. I trust you will have no difficulty in performing that task.

Canning her is a political statement.

She can also sue them for slander.

Exactly where did they slander her?

She can sue for breach of contract.

You can have a political page if it is separate.

But MAP stated that she could not wear the crown and sash in pictures posted on a political page and she did as shown in nine occasions.

She violated here written agreement and she was stripped of her title.

You can also read where Katie Williams was given ample opportunities to “edit” those posts and she “refused” to do so.

That's a bald faced lie!

Oh wait, - I see now – you used this Story and FOX News report to prove it’s a lie.

Noah Jennings, Williams' spokesman, told ...

Please now show your factual documentation to prove that Noah Jennings [Williams' spokesman] was telling the truth and that Susan Jeske [“Ms. America CEO] was lying.

Hearsay in news stories will not suffice since they cannot adequately substantiated.

These posts, in her words, included a picture of herself wearing a red ‘Trump 2020’ hat as well as expressions of support for the United States and criticism of the leftist political organisation antifa.

She was stripped of here title for wearing the crown and sash in the links in Footnote 2 of the REVOCATION OF TITLE LETTER in Post 20 for political statements

Saying that you hate Antifa and one of their thugs murdered 9 people in Dayton Ohio and you wish they would rot in hell. If she said something like that. That is not political.

Did any of them say they were queer on their pages? If so that is political and since they were inconsistent breach of contract.

My point is there are tons of ways to sue them.

Not that she will or necessarily should. But she sure can.

Uh, what was your point again?

Those clauses are illegitimate and you can sue anyway.

They are legal and binding, just like any contract.

Certain types of contracts cannot be enforced even if someone is stupid enough to sign them. This isn't one of them.

Courts Say Man Can Sue Despite Signing Waiver By Avi Salzman

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/nyregion/courts-say-man-can-sue-despite- signing-waiver.html

Keep reading The Times by creating a free account or logging in.

I “comprehende” from reading more than enough of the Deckard posted articles that newspapers, other media lie by slanting their headlines – especially shit put out by the NY Times.

Since I could not read the story directly, you made me work and it took me a while to get to the bottom of this.

Yes, there was an exception in New York State where “if you've been injured due to negligent actions, you can sue – even if you signed a waiver.”

Was Katie Williams “injured due to negligent actions” by the MAP?

No.

You can always sue. You may not win but you can sue. Comprende?

You showed me one exception – I will accept that, of course.

I ask you to now show factual evidence that can ALWAYS sue after you have signed a covenant not to sue.

Can you show me that …

Williams has created a separate Facebook page for the pageant, devoid of political statements, but she claimed that the organisers continued to voice their disapproval in personal communications of what she was posting on her personal account.

They are legal and binding, just like any contract.

Certain types of contracts cannot be enforced even if someone is stupid enough to sign them. This isn't one of them.

Sure you could. You could scour the other contestants pages especially the runner up. Then say something they said is political. Something everyone said is political. Again i'm not saying she should just she could.

Yes, there was an exception in New York State where “if you've been injured due to negligent actions, you can sue – even if you signed a waiver.”

Was Katie Williams “injured due to negligent actions” by the MAP?

It could be argued that she was injured, emotionally and financially.

They singled her out because she supports Trump.

She didn't tell anyone to vote for Trump that I know of.

Everything is political, or you can make that case. She could say they were being political because she just likes our country and the President. Nothing necessarily political about that.

Definition of political 1a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government

They are legal and binding, just like any contract.

Certain types of contracts cannot be enforced even if someone is stupid enough to sign them. This isn't one of them.

Sure you could. You could scour the other contestants pages especially the runner up. Then say something they said is political. Something everyone said is political. Again i'm not saying she should just she could.

That will NOT matter. Two or more wrongs will never make the first wrong be right.

All that would do would cause other contestants to be stripped of their titles if it were shown they violated their signed agreement.

Stone, with all due respect – you are grasping at straws on this one.

It could be argued that she was injured, emotionally and financially.

They singled her out because she supports Trump.

She didn't tell anyone to vote for Trump that I know of.

Everything is political, or you can make that case.

She could say they were being political because she just likes our country and the President. Nothing necessarily political about that.

Definition of political 1a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government

It could be argued that she was injured, emotionally and financially.

She was, no doubt. And she agreed to be subject to the pageant's rules and directives. She was, in essence, applying to be the employee of the pageant for one year if she won the national title.

And she signed the contract, knowing that other contestants in previous years had been stripped of titles with no legal recourse.

If you sign their contract, you have to abide by their rules.

Do you consider this a political statement?

A photo of two men embracing posted on Instagram, one with an American flag
skin and the other with a rainbow skin. “Don’t assume my beliefs based on my
political party! Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!
I will fight for Fairness for everyone regardless of where you fall on the political
spectrum.”

You know what's likely to come next.     : )

She CANNOT sue them for stripping here of the title since she signed a “covenant not to sue.” [See Post 29]. Uh, what was your point again?

Yes she can. She man lose but she can sue them.

She may lose but she can sue them.

She can file the paperwork certainly. I'd bet the first time a judge hears the case, she'd throw it out of court.

The courts don't have any desire to litigate the role of political partisanship in beauty pageants. I can't imagine any judge wanting that case in their court.

She can TRY to file a ridiculously frivolous lawsuit. However, it will be to no avail and she will probably find that she got overly creative with her claims and attempted a lawsuit over laughable causes.

The worst outcome for Miss Nevada is a judge who decides to make it clear to all the beauty queens out there that they shouldn't try to sue their pageants. In that instance, the judge could admit the case and allow it to proceed for a while instead of dismissing it immediately. Then the judge would toss the case and leave the litigious beauty queen facing the court costs and the defendant's pricey legal team hired by the pageant officials. Then she might face a countersuit as well.

Recall how Stormy Daniels was suing under the representation of Creepy Porn Lawyer and found herself owing $300,000 in legal bills? Like that. She'll be stripping from town to town until she's 75yo to pay that off.

You don't get to drag the courts into anything if they don't want to be involved. And you have no recourse unless Congress passes some black-letter law to enforce.

Furthermore, I substantially believe that the MAP can sue Katie Williams for Breach of Contract.

Just because they could, in theory, counter-sue her doesn't mean they'd be foolish enough to file such a lawsuit. Too much downside, not enough to gain. The pageant wants to stay on defense, for publicity reasons if nothing else.

According to Williams, there was one instance where she thought what she was doing was ok because Jeske told her to take a photo with the president while wearing her sash. Williams then shared screen shots of the text message she received from Jeske.

Williams was asked to surrendered her crown and sash, and to never speak of the pageant again, but by the tone of her tweets, this isn’t happening any time soon.

***

BTW - This isn't the first time this has happened.

Miss World America's State/National/Chief Director accused me of being racist, Islamaphobic, and insensitive.

They stripped me of my Miss Michigan title due to my refusal to try on a hijab in 2018, my tweet about black on black gun violence, and "insensitive" statistical tweets.pic.twitter.com/K1Btho0Pgq

You sound liker an ACLU liberal.

I find that offensive opinionated people are all about being right and never being wrong, By name-calling and trying to talk down to you they are attempting to intimidate you to the point that you become agreeable – or they will try to infuriate you that they hijack your ability to think clearly and respond rationally.

I have no time or patience for dealing with that nonsense.

Good day to you, Sir, and I wish you well …

ou sound liker an ACLU liberal.

If you said something similar like "you're one of those libertarians" to Deckard. Would that mean you lost the argument?

BTW - This isn't the first time this has happened.

There are other times it has happened – in addition to the one you pointed out now.

And it will happen again - again and again – I can readily assure you.

It will happen to all those who act so “stupidly libertarian” as to think they do not have to follow the rules set forth by the organization they desire to associate with or to abide by the agreement they signed.

American culture values independence, but sometimes independence can be taken too far.

These ladies did – and you have always TRIED to …

to think they do not have to follow the rules set forth by the organization

She FOLLOWED THE RULES.

The pageant director kept arbitrarily changing the rules specifically for her.

It was a set-up to get her disqualified, and it's really sad that you can't see that.

What you saw was Gatlin reposting Katie Williams’ gay Instagram porn.

Oh -so now Gatlin the almighty has declared an innocuous image to be "porn"?

Will the insanity never end?

Of course, you never objected to yukon's posting a link to a disgusting gay porn site. In fact - you DEFENDED him.

If you said something similar like "you're one of those libertarians" to Deckard. Would that mean you lost the argument?

Is that not what you did, since all you had to offer - to no avail - was your personal opinion?

Oh -so now Gatlin the almighty has declared an innocuous image to be "porn"?

Oh -so now Gatlin the almighty has declared an innocuous image to be "porn"?

But you are indeed dead wrong in your stating of my assessment.

"Gatlin the Almighty" - Damn, I sure do like that.

Attaboy, Deckard ...

"Gatlin the Almighty" - Damn, I sure do like that.

It was sarcasm, you arrogant, obnoxious ass.

In fact - you DEFENDED {yukon}.

And I will forever continue to defend any and all who are wrongly, viscously and maliciously charged.

"Gatlin the Almighty" - Damn, I sure do like that.

It was sarcasm, you arrogant, obnoxious ass.

Sarcasm is a defense mechanism and it definitely is not a very good one because of the inherent negative nature of sarcasm.

While you search for a better defense mechanism – you desperately need to try friendly laughter.

In fact - you DEFENDED {yukon}.

That I did, and so ever courageously.

That you appear to be proud of that fact only further displays your lack of character.

And I will forever continue to defend any and all who are wrongly, viscously and maliciously charged.

Yeah sure Parsons - he was "hacked", or so you claimed.

Sarcasm is a defense mechanism and it definitely is not a very good one because of the inherent negative nature of sarcasm.

Yada,yada,yada.

She FOLLOWED THE RULES.

The CEO of MAP linked to 9 different instances she did not.

The pageant director kept arbitrarily changing the rules specifically for her.

So she alleged and provided no supporting factual documentation to that effect.

The agreement she signed NEVER changed. It specifically stated “NO POLITICS.” [See Post 20]

It was a set-up to get her disqualified …

This an unsubstantiated claim by you.

She signed the rules and she violated the rule stating ”no politics” on at least 9 specific occasions. [See links in Post 20].

Sarcasm is a defense mechanism and it definitely is not a very good one because of the inherent negative nature of sarcasm.

Yada,yada,yada.

That you appear to be proud of that fact only further displays your lack of character.

displays a quality that defines me as a considerate human being...

...towards perverts like your man-crush yukon.

It's sounding like TC and Gatlin like a PC world where your thoughts are forbidden to be thought or shared.

Not at all. I am very much a free speech guy.

However, if you are competing for a chance at scholarships, paid travel, maybe a chance at modeling or in video journalism and you are entering some beauty pageant to try to open those doors, that is essentially a job application to become their employee and reap those benefits. If they restrict something like politics (or appearing in porn) by contract, that is their right as the owners of the pageant and as a brand that is used to attract worthwhile candidates to their pageant. In that case, the rules are what they say they are and can be arbitrary (by design).

It's their pageant. And she read and signed their contract. She further has knowledge that both state pageant winners and even a few national pageant winners have had their titles taken away for somewhat arbitrary reasons not involving illegal behavior by a contestant. And once she had won the state title, the state pageant director is increasingly unimportant (even if she urged her to get pictures with the Trumps) and the CEO and national director and pageant board are in control. When they told her "no politics", she should have cleared every bit of political content off her pages, both personal pages and pageant pages. Because if she didn't do that, they would have legal cause to strip her title and she would have no legal recourse.

People do sign away their free speech rights every single day in non-disclosure agreements. They sign away their right to apply to work for the competitors of their current employer via non-compete clauses in their contracts. They sign away their intellectual property rights for their inventions in employment contracts that say that anything they produce while employed by a company belongs to that company even if their invention is not directly related to their work product at that company.

Pageants have always been a shady operation, run by scumbags. You'd better understand up front before you ever apply for one exactly what you're getting into.

It doesn't help this former Miss Nevada that beauty pageants are, by definition, stupid. And clearly arbitrary in choosing winners. The ex-Miss Nevada is very unlikely to find a sympathetic court to hear her claims.

It doesn't help this former Miss Nevada that beauty pageants are, by definition, stupid. And clearly arbitrary in choosing winners.

At least you admit that the application of the rules in this case was arbitrary.

And stupid.

If you want people to pay attention to what you have to say, then it’s time to abandon the cliché introductory writing crutches you’ve been relying on for years.

But I love those crutches. They're LP and LF memes that are very popular.

Establish a room full of people and they may never agree on who they like. But they will always find someone to hate. Online forums reflect that basic truth.

That was not “Gatlin posting HIS gay Twitter porn” – smart ass.

LOL. Gotcha!

And it is gay porn. Clearly a rainbowed black man hugging a stars-n-stripes white man, both with shaved heads (eliminates racial attributes of hair texture/color). The photo is strongly suggestive that both are entirely nude and that their genitals are touching each other's hips. Notice that White Uncle Sam is cradling his head on Black Rainbow's shoulder in a submissive and emotively receptive attitude toward Black Rainbow. This is a message, clearly. And my description of it is way too honest for Twitter to allow to be peddled on their little propaganda venue. The photo is, in fact, a cheesy ripoff of Mapplethorpe's photography but without the charm of a bullwhip rammed up his butt and snapshotted for posterity.

Anyway, it's totally gay. And you posted it.

Tooconservative, you are so damned PREDICTABLE – All the way to the core depth of your libertarian being.

Thank you. Apparently my consistency has finally helped you learn at least a few things over the years. It's very rewarding.

At least you admit that the application of the rules in this case was arbitrary.

And stupid.

When did I deny it?

I didn't say I agreed with the policy.

Only a libertarian would ever see defending a malicious injustice as being a “man-crush.”

You presented such a shameful display of anosognosia – a malady most commonly found in all libertarians.

Nowhere has Williams – or anyone on this thread – ever shown that Williams did not violate the agreement when she posed with her crown and sash on at least 9 instances doing political discussions. Please ping me when you can do that …

Thank you …

The pageant director kept arbitrarily changing the rules specifically for her.

Prove it.

While you're at it, prove that Miss Nevada isn't just using all this as a publicity stunt, perhaps so she can go on a college speaking tour at conservative and Christian colleges and private schools. Maybe Miss Nevada knew she had 2% (or less) chance of winning the title/scholarships/travel/resume but that she could garner some free publicity and an opening for a chance at something a lot more rewarding to her financially than trying to win to win a booby prize like Miss Congeniality.

I think it is clear that they are all playing a lot of publicity games and have been all along. I take none of it at face value.

Except that contract that she signed. Toss everything else out of court and the key fact is that she still voluntarily signed that contract and knew that rules can and will be enforced on contestants and especially on the winner.

I don’t know how this thread got on to discussing “can she sue – or can she not sue” and got off the point of the original discussion which began where I stated in Post 1: “It is simple and should be easily understood.” I then proceed to factually document – many times over – the evidence MAP presented to show the violations by Williams.

I did appreciate your effort to bring some evidence to bear so we were not in a fact-free dispute, as we so often are on LF threads where you get a lot more arguments and bickering than facts. I would say that nolu is still a little better at it, more consistent, perhaps has better resources on legal topics. But you're no slouch at adducing facts to support your argument.

This was not "name calling" Stone - This is to be considered a compliment.

... nolu is still a little better at it ...

His presentations are great - I only wish they were shorter and get to the point more quickly and directly.

To get an idea of the organizational structure, let's look at the grievance policy from their website.

His presentations are great - I only wish they were shorter and get to the point more quickly and directly.

I say the same thing about my own posts. Too long. I need to work more on conveying more info, more concisely and unambiguously.

The CEO of MAP linked to 9 different instances she did not.

Legally, the CEO was dotting i's and crossing t's. The pageant does anticipate lawsuits.

That kind of documentation is prep work for a possible disqualification.

Not at all. I am very much a free speech guy.

I am here to testify to that fact with an – AMEN - shout out.

In fact, you speak so freely that I can truly say you are without a doubt the most loquacious person on LF.

And I am in second place while trailing along right behind you – following in your footsteps.

In fact, you speak so freely that I can truly say you are without a doubt the most loquacious person on LF.

I've been bored lately and a little hyper. So after being gone from the site for months and posting nothing, I find myself posting a lot more, maybe just from boredom.

I think I'm losing my ability to watch TV and find it entertaining. Or even interesting enough to try to follow the details of a story or a news program. Even stuff I would normally like. It's troubling because you start to wonder what you'll do with that time you'd normally waste on entertainment and news.

I considered a new hobby, maybe 3d printing or flying a drone. Just not that appealing or something I could really spend much time at.