Source: Zero Hedge
In what is a severely under reported but perhaps the most alarming development out of the Middle East this week, Iraq's government has said it's ready to down any aircraft violating its airspace amid a blanket ban on 'unauthorized' flights not specifically approved by the prime minister's office. Military Times reported the day after Iraq closed its airspace on Thursday:
U.S. military officials in Iraq will now seek out Iraqi approval before launching any air operations, a move made a day after that nations prime minister announced a ban of unauthorized flights, including those involving coalition forces fighting ISIS.
Prime Minister Abdul-Mahdi called for an end to all unauthorized flights including US drones, spy planes, jets, or helicopters on Thursday. The directive demanded that all aerial vehicles comply with Iraqi law and operations must be under Iraqi government authorization.
Monday's blast in southwest Baghdad, via the AP.
The US Coalition on Friday issued a statement saying that it is ready to comply with the order:
The drastic Baghdad decision came after on Monday a massive blast ripped through a neighborhood in the city, which Iraqi officials believe was the result of an Israeli strike on a pro-Iranian militia ammunition depot.
The resulting fire had raged throughout the day not far from the 'Green Zone' and sent mortars and exploding munitions across the city, resulting in the death of at least one civilian and wounding of nearly 40 others, many of them children. The weapons base reportedly belonged to the pro-Iran Kataib Sayyid Al-Shuhada militia, and an estimated $110 million worth of munitions were wiped out.
The prime minister ordered to revoke all special flight permits in Iraqi airspace for reconnaissance aircraft, reconnaissance aircraft with weapons, fighters, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles of all kinds available to the Iraqi and non-Iraqi sides, an official Iraq government statement said after an Iraqi National Security Council meeting this week.
All authorities are required to comply with this order. Any flights that violate this regulation will be considered an aggression, which our air defense will immediately respond to, the statement added.
While there's been no official government statement out of Baghdad confirming an Israeli jet or drone was behind the attack amid an ongoing investigation, Iraqi militia commanders and military leaders were quick to name Israel, and not for the first time (prior recent 'mystery' explosions at Iran-backed militia bases have also been blamed on Israeli). We believe that the US and Israel were behind these explosions, one Shiite commander told Arab News.
Indeed even Israeli media has been source of widespread speculation that Israeli planes have been conducting raids in Iraqi airspace of late. All of this also comes as Iraq's parliament has increasingly voiced anger and frustration at the continued US troop presence even after the Islamic State has been defeated.
#1: Tooconservative To: Deckard (#0)
They should not be hosting an Iranian munitions dump. Iran has no strategic interest in Iraq to even justify it. No one wants to see Iraq turn into an Iranian missile base like Lebanon or Syria.
I see the Iraqi objection based on their sovereignty. But hosting that missile storage alone had already compromised their sovereignty.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-18 18:01:44 Reply Private Reply
#2: Pinguinite To: Deckard (#0)
Pinguinite posted on 2019-08-18 19:56:12 Reply Private Reply
#3: Pinguinite To: Tooconservative (#1)
Who's to say? Certainly Iran wouldn't be storing munitions in Iraq without Iraq's approval.
Pinguinite posted on 2019-08-18 19:57:07 Reply Private Reply
#4: Tooconservative To: Pinguinite (#3)
It certainly sounds like Iraq is switching sides from the coalition which delivered it from ISIS and is now orienting toward Iran.
Iraq is the most vulnerable state to Iranian appeals. It is a majority Shi'a country. And so is Iran. Their enemies are all the Sunni Arab states (except Qatar).
If it comes to war, missile stockpiles will be targeted early. Also, Israel is well-known for striking missiles from Iran, having done so repeatedly. Israel bombed Syria's shake-and-bake nuclear reactor that was apparently supplied as a joint project between North Korea and Iran. Israel also bombed Saddam's Osirik reactor.
Iraq should consider what may happen if they continue to aid Iran against Israel. Israel has demonstrated many times an expertise in making their enemies regret their choice to attack or threaten Israel.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-18 21:20:24 Reply Private Reply
#5: Pinguinite To: Tooconservative (#4)
But weren't you just lamenting Iraq's loss of sovereignty earlier in the thread?
How is it that Israel should be able to influence Iraqi policies, but not Iran?
Pinguinite posted on 2019-08-19 01:59:17 Reply Private Reply
#6: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#4)
You got it completely wrong. The coalition delivered Iraq from the secular Sunni government and allowed Shia pro-Iranian majority to take over.
ISIS is Sunni, but it was suppressed by Saddam Hussein secularists.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 07:05:06 Reply Private Reply
#7: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#4)
Especially in 2006 Lebanon war.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 07:07:18 Reply Private Reply
#8: A K A Stone To: Pinguinite (#5)
Because Iran is an evil terrorist state run by kooks. Israel is a democracy run by civilized good people. How can you equate Iran who arrests women for attending a soccer match with Israel who doesn't act like the asshole Iranians.
Would you rather live in Iran or Israel?
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 08:14:18 Reply Private Reply
#9: A Pole To: A K A Stone (#8)
It depends who you are. LGBT activist will chose the second, the devout Shia will chose the first.
Have you been to either country?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 08:22:38 Reply Private Reply
#10: A K A Stone To: A Pole (#9)
Have you been to Poland?
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 09:11:51 Reply Private Reply
#11: A Pole To: A K A Stone (#10)
It shows.
Off the topic.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 09:13:16 Reply Private Reply
#12: A K A Stone To: A Pole (#9)
So Israel doesn't murder their citizens if they are faggots. Good for them. Iran does murder faggots. Faggots are pretty much useless but no one should be murdered. Ridiculing correcting making fun of laughing at telling them they are sickos is ok.
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 09:14:04 Reply Private Reply
#13: A K A Stone To: A Pole (#11)
No I haven't been to Poland.
I've been to Germany, Austria, Canada and Mexico. That is the extent of my foreign travels.
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 09:15:10 Reply Private Reply
#14: A Pole To: A K A Stone (#12)
It is very kind of you. You should move to Saudi Arabia.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 09:15:46 Reply Private Reply
#15: A K A Stone To: A Pole (#11)
Yes we are. It veered off long ago. That is ok. That is the way it goes sometimes. Sometimes something is said that relates to the original subject. Then it gets further and further from the topic posted.
That is ok. Just like a normal conversation.
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 09:16:37 Reply Private Reply
#16: A Pole To: A K A Stone (#13)
Talking to yourself?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 09:17:34 Reply Private Reply
#17: A K A Stone To: A Pole (#14)
Thank You I am a kind person. Remember that.
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 09:17:39 Reply Private Reply
#18: A K A Stone To: A Pole (#16)
No I am talking to a Polack.
How many polacks does it take to post on a forum?
A K A Stone posted on 2019-08-19 09:20:17 Reply Private Reply
#19: A Pole To: A K A Stone (#18)
Are you a rube or a dolt?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 09:28:47 Reply Private Reply
#20: Tooconservative To: A Pole, redleghunter (#6)
Well...Iraq was governed by led by Saddam and his gang of ruthless Sunni pols and cronies from Iraq's Sunni regions, especially the area where Saddam came from. They were supported by the Christian and Sunni minority and some of the Kurds (at least until Saddam gassed some supposedly disloyal Kurds).
But you are right that we destroyed the social fabric of Iraq.
And we've allowed the Saudis and Qataris to do the same thing to Syria, so the French and Brits could get natural gas pipelines into the EU. Which would end the Russian natural gas monopoly in the EU and establish a competitive market and much lower energy costs to the EU.
Syria is different from Iraq in that it was run by a minority of Alawite leadership with support from Shi'a and Christian minorities, all against a Sunni majority.
Being outside the region and having little grounding toward Mideast culture and religions, it's hard to remember all the details and cross-currents of all the former colonies of the British empire that we have to deal with.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-19 16:56:27 Reply Private Reply
#21: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#20)
Yes and not. Now the Shia majority is free to govern their country. The time of forced secularism and anti-Iranian policy ended.
It is like thinking that the Bible Belt is Catholic, Utah is inhabited by the Quakers and New England is Shinto. All those stupid details are irrelevant and annoying mumbo jumbo. Good humanitarian bombing will make it into a new Switzerland.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-19 17:05:44 Reply Private Reply
#22: redleghunter To: Tooconservative (#20)
redleghunter posted on 2019-08-19 17:44:28 Reply Private Reply
#23: Tooconservative To: A Pole (#21)
Or Iran is free to exploit the Iraqi Shi'a to use for their own purposes.
Your remarks earlier on ISIS were accurate in that they were Sunni. They were also elements of Saddam's former military/security/intel agencies. Just as Germany had cause to worry about dispossessed members of the former military after WW I reduced the size of the German army and therefore left a lot of entitled military families at loose ends and helped open the doors to the Nazi element, the end of Saddam left his military/intel/security forces without a job or anywhere to go. And suddenly you have ISIS establishing itself out in the desert regions fighting Assad's forces to break off the eastern part of Syria and moving north-by-northeast inside of Iraq to try to grab and hold the Kirkuk oil fields. Add a bold dash of religious fundamentalism (smashing up ancient artifacts and sites) and some executions and you have a wannabe caliphate, trying to attract Muslim recruits worldwide. "It's the end of the world as we know it and you can enjoy the end in style. Come get your 72 virgins." Of course, they mostly attracted silly unprepared Westerners and a bunch of psychopaths from all over the world. There are psychopaths in every society including Muslims. Islam does tend to reward psychopaths far more than Western societies do.
Welcome to the Empire, comrade.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-19 18:19:30 Reply Private Reply
#24: Tooconservative To: redleghunter (#22)
But that won't serve the purposes of their new masters in Tehran.
Iraq and Iran have been making each other unhappy off and on for some decades.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-19 18:22:01 Reply Private Reply
#25: A Pole To: redleghunter (#22)
Are you a socialist? Such amazing wealth should belong to the people and corporations from the more civilized countries. To the people like you for example, don't you agree? Iraqi are savages.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 00:38:34 Reply Private Reply
#26: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#23)
No Iranians, no Iraqis should be allowed to exploit anything in this region. Our little brown brothers should submit and obey.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 00:42:24 Reply Private Reply
#27: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#23)
No, thanks. I will leave it to you. Enjoy.
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 00:44:55 Reply Private Reply
#28: redleghunter To: A Pole (#25)
Wow! Here in the US such language is a dog whistle for racism.
Care to define it?
redleghunter posted on 2019-08-20 01:24:01 Reply Private Reply
#29: redleghunter To: Tooconservative (#24)
And quite a few in the Iraqi Parliament who are quite uncomfortable the Quds seem to be overstaying their visit.
Even Sadr is giving signals of thanks for all that help when the American devils were in charge, but we got it now.
redleghunter posted on 2019-08-20 01:27:29 Reply Private Reply
#30: A Pole To: redleghunter (#28)
Define what? What are you babbling about?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 01:56:42 Reply Private Reply
#31: redleghunter To: A Pole (#30)
redleghunter posted on 2019-08-20 02:27:12 Reply Private Reply
#32: Tooconservative To: redleghunter (#29)
I haven't seen any recent reporting on Iran trying to colonize Syria but I recall reporting on it. They recruited fighters for Syria, promising a plot of land (in Syria) to those who would fight to defeat ISIS there. There were earlier reports that Iran was being rather forceful about trying to convert the sizable Alawite population in Syria to Shi'a. Alawites are, as you probably know, sort of not accepted to Shi'a and Sunni and some question whether they are even Muslim. So, maybe Alawites are considered heretic by Sunni and Shi'a, kind of like how, say, Mormons used to be regarded by both Catholics and Protestants here in America. Anyway, that's how I try to remember Who's Who in the region. Alawites are sizable and numerous in Syria but their beliefs are not widely accepted as being mainstream Islam.
Maybe America should start copying this tactic. "Sign up for the Army and go fight in Afghanistan. When you win our crusade for peace in Afghanistan, you'll get 40 acres of Afghanistan and ten goats. We promise!".
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-20 03:18:09 Reply Private Reply
#33: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#32)
I recall reporting on WMDs in Iraq, incubator babies and shredders. Do you?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 03:21:06 Reply Private Reply
#34: Tooconservative To: A Pole (#33)
The reports of WMD were certainly there which stretched back at least 10 years prior to our invasion. The same was true of reporting from human rights organizations about shredders (or wood chippers) being a favorite disposal method of Saddam's secret police.
The incubators are something you are misremembering. Those are associated with Gulf War I when we chased Saddam out of Kuwait. The daughter of the Kuwait ambassador just happened to be the person who accused Saddam's forces of dumping babies out of incubators and rushing the incubators back to Iraq. A lot of people still harbor doubts as to whether this was all just propaganda and no one seems to be able to find any Kuwaiti doctors or hospital administrators who say that their incubators got stolen. Surely there should be some witnesses to tell us steadfastly that their incubators got stolen but, so far, nada.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-20 10:17:00 Reply Private Reply
#35: redleghunter To: Tooconservative (#32)
That's not 'sweetening the pot' much. :)
redleghunter posted on 2019-08-20 14:02:00 Reply Private Reply
#36: Tooconservative To: redleghunter (#35)
So many stories from the region, you can't get very complete reporting on. It's very hard to get informed and stay informed. I don't think the Brit papers do much better than ours and the EU media is even worse than our own.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-20 18:06:19 Reply Private Reply
#37: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#34)
Do you?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 18:21:21 Reply Private Reply
#38: Tooconservative To: A Pole (#37)
Of course. It was a propaganda exercise, pretty successful. I'm pretty certain that State Dept. was in on it, probably planned it. They co-opted the Kuwaiti ambassador's daughter to do it, provided technical means for her pleas for help and the war crimes committed by the Iraqis. Of which some of them were clearly lies.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-20 18:38:07 Reply Private Reply
#39: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#38)
I wonder what are the consequences of persuading lower IQ segment of population (even majority) and alienating those with higher IQ?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-20 19:06:17 Reply Private Reply
#40: Tooconservative To: A Pole (#39)
Ever seen the movie Idiocracy? Something like that.
Obviously, you do have some notion of how a government-sponsored propaganda campaign does affect politics here in America just as it does in other countries.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-21 01:56:44 Reply Private Reply
#41: A Pole To: Tooconservative (#40)
Yes, of course. But I am wondering about another aspect. If you address a crowd, what is better - to convince a stupider majority or smarter minority? What are the benefits and disadvantages of the first and second approach?
I know that in our times the "democratic" reverence toward majority holds powerful sway over our minds, but what is the sober, real world evaluation?
A Pole posted on 2019-08-21 05:22:35 Reply Private Reply
#42: Tooconservative To: A Pole (#41)
Well, the smart political pros say you need to focus on the political elite (pols, media figures, show biz celebs, business people, academics). If you capture the thought leaders for your cause, the sheep will follow.
But your plans can go awry when the sheep get tired of the sham and elect some guy like Trump anyway.
Tooconservative posted on 2019-08-21 05:57:41 Reply Private Reply