The doctor, learning they had not gone to the ER, called DCS, and later that night, the family got a visit from Chandler police.

The Dr, Nanny State may have called ER, then called DCS.

How he found out that they didn't go to ER is unclear. Maybe the parents themselves told him, if he called to check up on the kid?

Sounds pretty messed up.

I wonder if there is more to the story.

I don’t remember a time, or if, Deckard ever posted a story of this nature where he was not trying to defame and damage the good reputation of cops or authorities that there was not “more to the story” discovered later.

Can you?

Do you think the hospital called the cops?

And they ignore him ...

I will have a follow up …

I will have a follow up …

You must notice that the parents mentioned ONLY that “the child was suffering from a fever.” At no time in the article did they mention whether the child did or did not have OTHER symptoms they told the doctor about. There many, many, reasons for a child to have a temperature of 105 as a symptom of various illnesses. And I will never believe - as the article tries to channel me to believe - that any doctor will take a child’s temperature, see it is 105, “mention” a concern for meningitis ONLY on that basis and as the ONLY reason for INSTRUCTING the parents to take the child to the ER.

Can you?

Beck says the doctor found Heber's temperature to be 105 degrees and instructed them to take him to the ER, mentioning a concern for meningitis. Once in her car, his mother retook his temperature and found it was 102.

Sarah Beck and Brooks Bryce decided the 105 degree fever their child, Heber, had was of no concern after they returned to their car and the mother retook his temperature and found it was 102.

Twenty-four hours late, Heber died from a form of bacterial meningitis, leaving the couple from Chandler, Arizona, grieving the loss of their child and looking to spread a message to other parents.

[…]

It is blatantly obvious from the testimony that the doctor felt the child was sick enough and had symptoms of meningitis at that time for him to INSTRUCT the parents to TAKE the child to the ER.

If as you claim the child was that sick, why didn't the doctor treat the child himself or call an ambulance?

the good reputation of cops

The cops were doing what they were told to do.

Twenty-four hours late, Heber died from a form of bacterial meningitis

Fearmongering tool!

Police said Bryce answered the phone but told police that his son's fever had broken and "he was fine."

"Like we're holding our kids hostage or they're deathly ill or barely alive. He was perfectly fine. He was in my arms sleeping. As I was on the phone with the officer I took his temperature, it was 100 degrees. There's no reason to give up my kids because he has a temperature of 100 degrees and sleeping," said Bryce.

Not surprised however that once again your socialist views on raising children has you siding with CPS and not the parents.

Do you have any idea how criminally corrupt Child Protective Services is?

That's a pity.

The U.S. Foster Care System: Modern Day Slavery and Child Trafficking

The Corrupt Business of Child Protective Services

[Doctor] INSTRUCT the parents to TAKE the child to the ER

If Ron Paul told you to STFU, you'd have to OBEY.

Doctor's orders!

Sounds pretty messed up. I wonder if there is more to the story.

Do you think the hospital called the cops? Sounds pretty messed up. I wonder if there is more to the story.

The doctor called the DCS. It would appear that the DCS called the cops.

"The doctor, learning they had not gone to the ER, called DCS, and later that night...."

There are a few curiosities.

Police said the incident started on Feb. 25, when parents Sarah Beck and Brooks Bryce brought their 2-year-old son Heber to the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine because the child was suffering from a fever.

Beck says the doctor found Heber's temperature to be 105 degrees and instructed them to take him to the ER, mentioning a concern for meningitis.

They were with a "doctor" at a college of medicine. The "doctor" did not make a medical diagnosis, he mentioned a concern. The "doctor" advised the parents to go to the ER, presumably another facility altogether (read on). Why did the "doctor" release the patient to the parents rather than have the emergency patient transported to the ER if there was a "present danger" requiring "immediate attention?"

In case you missed it....

the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine

[...]

Beck says the doctor found....

N.D., not to be confused with a Medical Doctor, M.D.

According to the police report, they made the decision to go inside the home because:

-"there was a present danger [to the child] that required immediate medical attention"

-"Brooks and Sarah refused to come outside and refused to let DCS check on the welfare of [the child]."

-"There was a court order signed by the judge giving DCS temporary custody of [the child] in order to get him medical treatment."

Who determined that there was a present danger to the child that required immediate attention?

What medical diagnosis was made, and treatment rendered, by the "doctor" at the college of naturopathic medicine?

Since when do residents inside their house have a duty to go outside to converse with police?

On what information and authority did a judge issue temporary custody to DCS, and when specifically?

https://www.scnm.edu/programs/doctor-of-naturopathic-medicine/scope-of-practice/

Arizona's scope of practice

The broadest scope of practice for naturopathic medicine in the United States is in Arizona, where naturopathic physicians (NDs also credentialed as NMDs) have increased scope beyond NDs in other US states. In Arizona NDs may perform many of the same activities performed by allopathic physicians, such as MDs or DOs. For instance, their formulary or list from which they may prescribe, includes not only vitamins and minerals, but also vaccines, antibiotics, oral contraceptives, anabolic steroids, and controlled substances such as morphine and cocaine. Additionally, the Federal Drug Enforcement Administration approved Arizona NDs to prescribe controlled substances from the formulary. This means NDs in Arizona are issued DEA numbers. Additionally, their scope includes IV therapy, injection therapy, minor surgery, physical medicine, botanical medicine and homeopathy. Finally, licensed NDs in Arizona may practice acupuncture as part of their scope of practice if they’ve completed 200 hours of acupuncture classroom and clinic coursework (included in SCNM's curriculum).

You will learn, practice and become skilled at using all of the modalities of naturopathic medicine at SCNM. This will make you a highly sought after physician no matter where you decide to practice. Once you graduate, your knowledge will empower you to pursue your dream career. If you choose to go into family practice, focus on certain conditions, or specialize in your favorite therapies, you’ll be prepared with the most broad and comprehensive education and training.

https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/arizona/az-laws/arizona_laws_32-1501

8. "Approved school of naturopathic medicine" or "school of naturopathic medicine" means a school or college determined by the board to have an educational program that meets standards prescribed by the council on naturopathic medical education, or its successor agency, and that offers a course of study that, on successful completion, results in the awarding of the degree of doctor of naturopathic medicine and whose course of study is either of the following:

(a) Accredited or a candidate for accreditation by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States secretary of education as a specialized accrediting agency for schools of naturopathic medicine or its successor.

(b) Accredited or a candidate for accreditation by an accrediting agency recognized by the council for higher education accreditation or its successor.

9. "Board" means the naturopathic physicians medical board.

[...]

23. "Natural substance" means a homeopathic, botanical, nutritional or other supplement that does not require a prescription pursuant to federal law before it is prescribed, dispensed or otherwise furnished to a patient and that is prescribed by a physician who is licensed pursuant to this chapter to enhance health, prevent disease or treat a medical condition diagnosed by the physician.

[...]

25. "Naturopathic medicine" means medicine as taught in approved schools of naturopathic medicine and in clinical, internship, preceptorship and postdoctoral training programs approved by the board and practiced by a recipient of a degree of doctor of naturopathic medicine licensed pursuant to this chapter.

[...]

28. "Practice of naturopathic medicine" means a medical system of diagnosing and treating diseases, injuries, ailments, infirmities and other conditions of the human mind and body, including by natural means, drugless methods, drugs, nonsurgical methods, devices, physical, electrical, hygienic and sanitary measures and all forms of physical agents and modalities.

A kid swallowed all the Scrabble letters. Now his poop shows more intelligence than a libertarian.

That’s brilliant.

I must steal it for other forums that are infested by the rabid dysfunctional 6%

Twenty-four hours late, Heber died from a form of bacterial meningitis

Fearmongering tool!

In law I would have been accused of entrapment.

You were set up.

The story I gave you was paraphrased from the story below.

Couple whose infant son died from meningitis has message for other parents

July 13, 2018 - By Scott Stump.

Alex Dempsey and Gabriel Schultz thought their 4-month-old son, Killy, just had a normal fever when they picked him up from day care at the end of last month.

Twenty-four hours later, on June 30, Killy died from a form of bacterial meningitis, leaving the couple from Richmond, Virginia, grieving the loss of their only child together and looking to spread a message to other parents.

Four-month-old Killy Schultz, pictured with mother Alex Dempsey, died 24 hours after first showing symptoms of meningitis. Alex Dempsey

[….] Rest of story at the link:

Couple whose infant son died from meningitis has message for other parents.

This true story could have been their story …

I’d say when a doctor “instructs” to take your baby to the ER that you do so.

A kid swallowed all the Scrabble letters. Now his poop shows more intelligence than a libertarian.

That’s brilliant.

Yep ...

I’d say when a doctor “instructs” to take your baby to the ER that you do so.

They were with a "doctor" at a college of medicine. The "doctor" did not make a medical diagnosis, he mentioned a concern. The "doctor" advised the parents to go to the ER, presumably another facility altogether (read on).

Why did the "doctor" release the patient to the parents rather than have the emergency patient transported to the ER if there was a "present danger" requiring "immediate attention?"

H/T: nolu chan

I’d say when a doctor “instructs” to take your baby to the ER that you do so.

They were with a "doctor" at a college of medicine. The "doctor" did not make a medical diagnosis, he mentioned a concern. The "doctor" advised the parents to go to the ER, presumably another facility altogether (read on).

Why did the "doctor" release the patient to the parents rather than have the emergency patient transported to the ER if there was a "present danger" requiring "immediate attention?"

H/T: nolu chan

The Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine & Health Sciences is the leading medical school dedicated to a comprehensive team approach to natural health.

Did you read that….it said “natural health” and dealing with possible meningitis is definitely not NATURAL HEALTH. This college did not have the equipment to test for meningitis. (read pm)

It is in some cases faster to drive to the ER than to call an ambulance. I know this from experience. Also I know 5hq5 calling an ambulance in Chandler and the surrounding area can cost as much as five thousand dollars. Sarah Beck and Brooks Bryce may not have had, or wanted to fork out, THOUSANDS of dollars for a few blocks ride in an ambulance when driving was much faster. (read on)

The doctor was an ND and not a MD trained in the diagnosis and treatment of meningitis.

The question remains unaddressed in why the couple did not go directly to the ER with a child having 105 degree temperature. Since they went directly to a ND I have the distinct they couple are true believers in Naturopathic Medicine. I am surprised the ND even instructed them to go to the ER. I believe he did so because of his deep concern about meningitis and

Another distinct possibility is that these people may be true believers in “natural medicine” and would never go to an ER. We don’t know. Do you even know what natural medicine is? Probably not. Here, let me educate you.

Natural medicine can also be referred to as naturopathy; it is a form of alternative medicine which involves homeopathy, herbalism, acupuncture, diet and lifestyle counselling, and more. It is thought that naturopathy originates back to 400BC and its founding principles were discovered by the Greek philosopher Hippocrates.

As Stone said earlier: “ I wonder if there is more to the story.”

From what I have learned so far, there definitely has been lots of information omitted, either by design of ignorance.

F/N: Gatlin

It is obvious this couple were true believers in “natural medicine” because they went to a ND in College of Naturopathic Medicine. I am here today to tell you if I have a child that a ND who definitely believes in the healing effects of natural medicine and probably teaches natural medicine at the college thinks for one second that my child may have meningitis and has no way of even testing for meningitis or treating meningitis instructs me to make my child to the ER….BAM, I am on my way très rapidement.

These believers in “natural medicine” did not go.

Yes, Stone, I believe there is MUCH more to this story.

The question remains unaddressed in why the couple did not go directly to the ER with a child having 105 degree temperature.

Once in her car, his mother retook his temperature and found it was going down.

"He's acting normal. He's dancing with his sisters in his car seat. And I take his temperature and it's 102," said Beck.

Later: "As I was on the phone with the officer I took his temperature, it was 100 degrees. There's no reason to give up my kids because he has a temperature of 100 degrees and sleeping," said Bryce.

Socialists Melissa Harris Perry (and Tater) - Children Belong to the Collective Not Parents or Families

The question remains unaddressed in why the couple did not go directly to the ER with a child having 105 degree temperature.

Once in her car, his mother retook his temperature and found it was going down.

"He's acting normal. He's dancing with his sisters in his car seat. And I take his temperature and it's 102," said Beck.

Later: "As I was on the phone with the officer I took his temperature, it was 100 degrees. There's no reason to give up my kids because he has a temperature of 100 degrees and sleeping," said Bryce.

And you believed this.

Sad ...

Later: "As I was on the phone with the officer I took his temperature, it was 100 degrees. There's no reason to give up my kids because he has a temperature of 100 degrees and sleeping," said Bryce.

And you believed this.

And you didn't?

It's a shame that your obsessive fetish for authority will only allow you to see this family as child abusers.

If the child had still had an abnormally high fever, I have no doubt that these parents would have gone to the emergency room

/s

It's a shame that your obsessive fetish for authority will only allow you to see this family as child abusers.

What I see is that DCS has been called to their house many times.

And the police report show there was vomit all over the kids room.

And the mother admitted that.

If it walks like a duck ...

And you believed this.

And you didn't?

Not from the beginning.

Not even from the same story on the other thread you posted.

The fact check always reveals the lies in the articles you post.

It's a shame that your obsessive fetish for authority will only allow you to see this family as child abusers.

It's a shame that your obsessive fetish for anarchy will only allow you to see this family as saints.

Thousands of children are killed at the hands of their parents, every year. Scumbag.

Thousands of children are killed at the hands of their parents, every year.

And here you are, on a chit-chat channel doing nothing at all.

So, kindly fuck off, BuckerGoo.

Are you watching your reflection in a mirror

Well, BuckerGoo, you can’t make it on a UFC fight card if you’re an over sensitized pussy... like Paultards and Dimrats.

In a MMA match, they ain’t all equal... and there’s no compassion for the loser. lol

Thousands of children are killed at the hands of their parents, every year.

your posts having over 50,000 rounds of ammunition preparing for some make-believe war.

He's going to need a hell of a lot more than that for confiscations from libertarians, like "Take the Guns First".

The Trumpkanista Canary gun grabbers are outnumbered, and out gunned.

lol

It was your Paultard buddies that first started to claim we are gonna collapse and a revolution would follow.

Your narrative is a problem. You make everything up as you can.

However, I do not think the end of anything will come during my lifetime... not even a collapse. However, I hope some situation develops where it’s legal for me to hunt snowflakes, welfare, illegals, drug addicts and libertarians.

Jimmy Jones

was bf - ing The unruly

he haTed To have To do iT

belize - guyana

aren'T They The same Thing

love
boris

Jim Jones

That’s right, Boris. Jim Jones ran off to the jungle because he too liked fucking his children. He was a government and cop hater too.

Sick twisted fucks, they are.

Good catch.

He figured his compound was as secluded as a jungle, if he refused to answer the door for 51 days.

lol

You can’t make it on a UFC fight card if you’re an over sensitized pussy...

In a MMA match, they ain’t all equal... and there’s no compassion for the loser.

Homo's gonna homo.

Have you noticed the correlation between grandchildren fuckers and government/cop haters?

Stone - is this the kind of perverted filth you want at your site?

I hope some situation develops where it’s legal for me to hunt snowflakes, welfare, illegals, drug addicts and libertarians.

Spoken like a true sociopath.

Good grief man, WTF is wrong with you?

Lots of government & cop hating folk do so because they are actively breaking laws. Dumb shit. Many flee the country to avoid detection, dumb shit. Many rape children or their own children, dip shit.

Jones and Keresh were two examples of seeking seclusion to avoid detection, dumb shit.

convincing Stone to ban all voices that aren’t anti cop, pro drugs.

Relax princess, no one wants to see you banned.

I'd be happy to see you start posting like a sane adult instead of of a drunk sociopath.

The doctor could not make a medical diagnosis because he did not have the equipment at the Southwest College of Naturopathic Medicine.

The extremely relevant point is that the N.D. could not make a diagnosis. He lacked competency to do so.

Given all the equipment he desired, was the N.D. licensed and competent to render a competent medical professional opinion of a positive or negative diagnosis of infectious meningitis? The answer appears clear that he was not.

The doctor was an ND and not a MD trained in the diagnosis and treatment of meningitis.

That's much better. The N.D. was not trained to diagnose meningitis. I would also doubt his medical competence to differentiate between the symptoms of bacterial or viral infection. The judge acted with zero competent evidence that there was any bacterial infection.

If a friend who had some medical knowledge, perhaps a former military corpman or medic, or an LPN expressed a belief that the child might have infectious meningitis, I should think that the parents should take the child to a competent medical professional.

However, that is not the question I address in this case. It is not a case of what the parents should have done, but whether the N.D. failed in his professional responsibilities, or the DCS, the police, or the judge failed in their responsibilities or exceeded their authority.

The question remains unaddressed in why the couple did not go directly to the ER with a child having 105 degree temperature. Since they went directly to a ND I have the distinct they couple are true believers in Naturopathic Medicine. I am surprised the ND even instructed them to go to the ER. I believe he did so because of his deep concern about meningitis

Notably absent from any recitation I have read so far is one syllable directly attributable to the N.D.

If the N.D. believed it was probable that the child had infectious meningitis, he should have notified the receiving hospital so they could be prepared to receive a suspected infectious meningitis case, and forwarded the medical record.

He should not have advised the parents to transport the child to some ER unannounced, there to plop in the waiting area to mix and mingle. The N.D. is without authority to order or instruct the parents that they must go to the ER.

As an N.D., he must know that his business is significantly an assembly of people who choose not to go to medical doctors. If he has a patient with a 105ºF temperature, how can he release said patient into the care of the parents??

The mother said the temperature went down to 102ºF on the ride home.

The mother said she called the N.D. in the afternoon and informed him the temperature had gone down.

The doctor, learning they had not gone to the ER, called DCS, and later that night, the family got a visit from Chandler police.

So the N.D. knew the parents had not gone to the ER that afternoon, but it became an undiagnosed medical emergency later that night.

After receiving the report from the doctor, DCS reached out to the parents to investigate. Brooks said that he spoke with a social worker and refused to take his son to the hospital. Brooks told AZ Family,

“They said ‘Brooks, you have to come out of your house right now… we have to check on them [kids],’ and I said, ‘I have Heber in my arms, he’s doing fine, his temperature is 100 degrees.

So, in the course of their nighttime investigation, DCS is outside his door telling him he must come out, and he says the child is fine and his temperature is 100 degrees.

Why didn't they force entry at that time?

After that,

Unable to convince the couple to take Heder to the hospital, DCS requested a temporary custody order from a judge.

What could they possibly tell the judge? They have a non-professional opinion that the child might have infectious meningitis?

Details from the police report:

-“there was a present danger [to the child] that required immediate medical attention”

-“Brooks and Sarah refused to come outside and refused to let DCS check on the welfare of [the child].”

-“There was a court order signed by the judge giving DCS temporary custody of [the child] in order to get him medical treatment.”

- - - - - - - - - -

-“there was a present danger [to the child] that required immediate medical attention”

How could these medical incompetents possibly swear to a judge that there affirmatively was a present danger, or that it required immediate medical attention? If so, they could have brought a doctor, or at least a quick read thermometer.

-“Brooks and Sarah refused to come outside and refused to let DCS check on the welfare of [the child].”

There is that little problem that they had no judge's order when they made their request. They requested the judge's order in response to that.

-“There was a court order signed by the judge giving DCS temporary custody of [the child] in order to get him medical treatment.”

What statement or medical record did they obtain from the naturopathic provider who was incompetent to render a competent professional medical opinion on whether the child did, or did not, have contagious meningitis, any other bacterial infection, or the flu.

Over on the other thread,

Officers went to the family's home to check the child's welfare, but no one answered the door, even though police could hear "someone coughing inside one of the bedrooms," according to the police report.

So, they concluded coughing means meningitis?

https://www.healthline.com/health/meningitis

Coughing does not appear to be a symptom of bacterial or other meningitis.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/symptoms-causes/syc-20351719

Dry, persistent cough; nasal congestion; and sore throat are symptoms of the flu, a viral infection.

So they broke in the door and,

Inside the home, the police say they found all three children sick and symptomatic.

That is worse than the DNC on spin cycle. The police found the children symptomatic. In their very best competent professional medical opinion, they found the children symptomatic of what? What exactly is their expertise in medical diagnostics?

After completing a search of the home, the police called for an ambulance. Two of the children were taken by ambulance to the hospital. A DCS worker took the third child to the hospital by car. The naturopath’s concerns were not unfounded. Doctors admitted Heder into the hospital to treat his symptoms.

Ph.D., piled higher and deeper?

There was absolutely no basis for the claim that the naturopath's concerns were unfounded.

If the naturopath's concerns, whatever they may have been, were well founded, why was only one child admitted?

According to the medical expertise indicated in the police report, all three of the children were found "symptomatic." What, one had more serious symptoms of contagious bacterial meningitis than the other two? Two symptomatic children could be released and not need isolation to protect the world from contagious infectious meningitis? And it appears the parents were not checked out for bugsies at all.

While doctors admitted Heder to treat his symptoms, that falls far short of stating Heder had contagious bacterial meningitis, or any bacterial infection at all. Maybe Heder was dehydrated and they hooked him up to a bag of fluids to treat his symptoms from the flu. What was his temperature at the house? What emergency care was given? What was the child's temperature at admittance? In any case, this information was not available when authorities requested, and the judge ordered the forced entry. One may not bootstrap information found after the fact to justify the order.

What evidence did the judge have that there was a medical emergency that night?

A veterinarian may be better qualified to diagnose a bacterial infection than anyone involved in this matter prior to arrrival at the hospital. Do the belated concerns of the N.D., on their own, justify the nighttime forced entry? What else did they have?

There is the alleged temperature of 105º attributed to a naturopath, at some unidentified time. The mother called the N.D. later, sometime in the afternoon. DCS showed up still later, that night. The father told the police, on the phone, the child's temperature was then 100º. Did they check the temperature with a quick read thermometer? It only takes seconds.

The question is whether there was a medical emergency at nighttime when requesting a judge to authorize a forced entry.

Did the N.D. call the receiving hospital and forward the medical record? If not, why not? I would bet the farm that the N.D. did not call the hospital, did not forward the medical record, and did not provide medical paperwork to the parents to take with them.

Did the judge speak to the N.D.?

Did the judge inquire and know that the doctor in question was an N.D., not an M.D.? Did the requesting authority make that known to the judge?

Did the requesting authority make known to the judge that the N.D. was incompetent to render a medical diagnosis of meningitis or bacterial infection, and that he did not make any such diagnosis?

Was the judge informed that the father just told the police that the child's temperature was 100°?

Quite simply, did they have sufficient competent information to make breaking down the door legal?

Did the requesting authority withhold relevant information? [Think FISA warrant.]

The judge and DCS and the N.D. may yet have some splainin' to do.

When those inside the house continued to refuse to open the door, police said, "The decision was made to force entry of the home for DCS in order to take custody of the child."

Another masterpiece of obfuscatory writing with the passive tense has the decision appear to have descended from the heavens. It is not attributed to any person or agency. The decision was an orphan that just appeared.

It is obvious this couple were true believers in “natural medicine” because they went to a ND in College of Naturopathic Medicine.

Was that obvious to the naturopathic doctor, or do you and I just have psychic abilities not apparent in the N.D.?

He allegedly had a child with a 105º fever. He delivered the child back into the care and custody of parents who were "true believers" in "natural medicine."

These believers in “natural medicine” did not go.

And why did he believe they would?

Later that day, did he develop a concern about the child or his license?

Assuming he had been correct in his incompetent non-professional suspicion, and the child died that night, how would he explain returning the child with the 105° fever to the care and custody of true believers in natural medicine?

It is obvious this couple were true believers in “natural medicine” because they went to a ND in College of Naturopathic Medicine.

It was “obvious” to me because with a child having a temperature of 105 (if information in the article is correct) and we don’t know of any other symptoms the child may have had, they went to a ND instead of the ER in Chandler.

Was that obvious to the naturopathic doctor …

… or do you and I just have psychic abilities not apparent in the N.D.?

Do you?

He allegedly had a child with a 105º fever. He delivered the child back into the care and custody of parents who were "true believers" in "natural medicine."

These believers in “natural medicine” did not go.

And why did he believe they would?

Later that day, did he develop a concern about the child or his license?

But it was reported that the mother called him later that day and told him she had not taken the child to the ER.

If that be true, I can readily assume that was “when” he “again” become concerned about the child.

And maybe also concern about his license.

I will add …

And also concern about the possibility of a lawsuit for malpractice.

Who knows?

Only that ND knows …