Often I have stated as my subjective opinion that ubiquitous, widely listenable Rock Music died in by the late 80s. 1987 to be exact. The reasons for this are many. SOME say it died with the advent of Disco (c. 1974-1975).

While this claim might be considered true to a degree, what Disco *did* do is prove to the corporate Music Industry and Record Producers that the quality musicianship and what makes "good music" was far less important than the packaging, marketing, perception. And the notion and longer-range plan by liberals-Leftists that politics flows downstream from culture...

WHICH leads us to ask the hows and whys:

HOW in the world did vulgar Ghetto Rap and female yodeling of "empowerment" whinefest anthems ever wind up the default "music" of pop culture for the last 25 years?

HOW did Rap, wimpy male emo whining, and female yodeling and yapping EVER wind up displacing varied genres of pleasing music compositions, inspirational lyrics, swaying rhythms and sweet vocal and instrumental chords of the 50s-80s -- as well as its soulful, sunny harmonies?

Q: Just how did an earful of garbage become "gourmet" music?
A: The same way a crucifix in a jar of urine became "museum art"; The same way Barry 0bama became President. VULGAR has replaced REFINEMENT; UGLY has replaced BEAUTY; LIES have replaced TRUTH.

In other words, like almost all of music -- including contemporary arts, foods, science, history, and language -- quality has become relative, and graded on a curve.

"Pop Music" has been a akin to a Third World rotting corpse, the King with no clothes", a corporate polished turd that lies. 21st century "music" STINKS. Purposely. Just like movies. Just like "education". Just like anything the Left and its cousins, Globalists touches. Pop Culture promotes Anarchy, From the Sciences to History to Morality to Politics to Religion.

If you accept this premise, then the question would be, "BUT WHY?"

I may be straying here beyond the original tangent, but it needs to be said -- the consensus-makers have recognized the political power and influence of "Pop Music" (as well as Spectator Sports like the NFL and Movies) as driving forces of young opinion, "Religions" of sorts. Not news, but simply put, the purveyors/Powers That Be of Pop Culture are social engineers and anarchists in rebellion.

But over all, pretty still fresh to me.

We're all bound to have a diverging opinion, but to me Boston's debut album was 20 years a head of its time. There's still nothing that sounds like it.

D&D...Timeless album. To bad they couldn't follow it up. Clapton was a amzing artist.

Drummer Jim Gordon -- ever hear *his* story? GREAT drummer. Too bad he was psychopath.

Get the Knack

Can't say it's one of my favorites, but it's hard to deny its success.

The band quickly faded into oblivion shortly after, though.

HOW in the world did vulgar Ghetto Rap and female yodeling of "empowerment" whinefest anthems ever wind up the default "music" of pop culture for the last 25 years?

Here you go, explains it all: The TRUTH Why Modern Music Is Awful

Drummer Jim Gordon -- ever hear *his* story? GREAT drummer. Too bad he was psychopath.

I'll see you, and raise you "Beware of Mr. Baker" on Netflix or wherever.

I love listening to Clapton in any of his incarnations, with any other group of musicians. Has anybody else ever been a founding member of so many supergroups? It's too bad he's in decline finally but man, what a legacy.

Ever catch any of the Crossroads Blu-rays or CDs? I bow my head just thinking about them.

Then they took 8 years to release a 3rd album because of internal struggles. I don't think they have been heard from since.

I never did hear any other tune on the album. Pretty good?

Right -- The Knack was projected to be an up and comer but that was its apex of commercial success. They never did make it.

I will check it out and listen to another theory as to why pop music has devolved into the abyss.

I'll see you, and raise you "Beware of Mr. Baker" on Netflix or wherever.

Gordon murdered his own mother. (Dunno if Mr. Baker beats that. Don't get Netflix.)

I love listening to Clapton in any of his incarnations, with any other group of musicians. Has anybody else ever been a founding member of so many supergroups?

Good question. I'd have to think it over....

Clapton was creative for a good 20 years.

Ever catch any of the Crossroads Blu-rays or CDs? I bow my head just thinking about them.

Nope. Maybe it can be found on YouTube?

Ughhh. "The Millennial Root" (Wah-oh. Wah-Oh.) THAt'S the Disease and what the female "yodel" is called? They also use it with auto-tune. A chronic horror.

Thus far an excellent vid and explanation on youtube...The same TWO guys compose 90% of the vast drivel played on the radio. Which why the non-Rap Crap ALL sounds the same.

The Knack -- funny but I was a captive audience to listening to 'My Sharona' seemingly for the entire summer of 1979 while working on the Seaside NJ boardwalk. (Record stand nearby, so I would listen to every summer's array of "IN" music.)

That kind of reminds me of Meatloaf's "Two out of three ain't bad" in 1978. It was played 3 times an hour on any radio station you tuned in to. I liked it at first but grew sick of it by the end of the summer. I sort of like it again now, mostly because I don't have to listen to it every 30 minutes.

I understand Tom Scholz was an engineer at MIT and personally developed some of the electronics used for his guitar. Regardless of how it was done, the clean sounding electric guitar sound on their album was certainly was a new thing in the industry.

TOP 3 BEST DEBUT ROCK ALBUMS EVER

Might I suggest 5 Favorite debut Rock Albums - there is no way to quantify best...in no particular order:

5. Ramones - Ramones - Kicked the door down for a generation of punk rockers

4. Queen - Queen - Lyrics, melodies and Brian May

3. AC/DC – High Voltage - Speaks for itself

2. Rush – Rush - You cannot get better quality rock from 3 musicians

1. Bruce Springsteen - Greetings From Asbury Park - The Boss put the Jersey Shore sound on the table - still rocking 40 yearson....

Best Debut Album

Rock and Rollin' with Fats Domino (1955, Imperial)

Here are the next few he made..

Fats Domino Rock and Rollin' (1956, Imperial)

This Is Fats Domino! (1956, Imperial)

This Is Fats (1957, Imperial)

Here Stands Fats Domino

Then they took 8 years to release a 3rd album because of internal struggles. I don't think they have been heard from since.

The official band has, in fact, released new albums over the years but they've gone no where. It seems Scholz, for all his engineering genius, was a nitpicking perfectionist to the point of being a PITA, which was, perhaps, to the credit of their early albums but also possibly at least one of the anchors that kept the band from flourishing.

Appetite for destruction

I’d put that in the top 10

Back in Black (even tho I liked Bonn Scott better than Brian Johnson) also must be included in top 5

But over all, pretty still fresh to me.

We're all bound to have a diverging opinion, but to me Boston's debut album was 20 years a head of its time. There's still nothing that sounds like it.

I agree. It came out of nowhere,and flat took over.

And "Is dated now" doesn't mean squat. We are talking about DEBUT albums,and the impact that they had.

I can't remember which one it was off the top of my head at the moment,but whichever one was the first Allman Brother Band Album has to be right up there,too.

Ever catch any of the Crossroads Blu-rays or CDs? I bow my head just thinking about them.

Nope. Maybe it can be found on YouTube?

I would be shocked if there is ever a period of time in all of eternity that you couldn't just buy them on-line anytime you want. They,like most of Pink Floyd's releases,will never go out of print.

It's da blues,man.

5. Ramones - Ramones - Kicked the door down for a generation of punk rockers

Which pretty much describes why none of their crap is even semi-good.

Peter Framton Comes Alive -

Yeah,I can see that one making the list. Do you know ANYBODY that didn't buy it?

Pink Floyd

The Wall... maybe another top 10

Which pretty much describes

Enjoy the music you like, I couldn't care less about your opinion if all you can manage is "none of their crap is even semi-good"

Peter Framton Comes Alive -

Yeah,I can see that one making the list.

LOL

I remember he did a concert at my college in the early 80s. By that time, he was obviously balding and had trimmed his hair short. There were literally girls crying asking "what happened to his hair?"

Pink Floyd

The Wall... maybe another top 10

I think "Dark Side of the Moon" was a much bigger hit album than The Wall.

Maybe so... but The Wall was more than 15 songs on vinyl.

Rare that I agree with GI; "The Wall" was much more. Try a video link authored by Roger Walters. Turn up the volume of your surround speaker system. You won't regret it.

I'm not saying The Wall wasn't a good album.

Rare that I agree with GI

Please don’t ever repeat that ever again. Now wash your filthy maw out with a Tide Pod.

(I’ll try the link tomorrow morning over java).

Gordon murdered his own mother. (Dunno if Mr. Baker beats that. Don't get Netflix.)

Well, I don't think Ginger killed Mom, but you can decide for yourself here:

https://youtu.be/d7h8CqYXEx0

Thus far an excellent vid and explanation on youtube.

I understand the principle behind their theory, but I don't know what 99% of the referenced songs sound like because I don't listen to shit.

See how pervasive the rot is? I never listen to the shit and yet ...... I know it's shit.

I’ll try the link tomorrow morning over java

You should call into the captain ... that you are munching on piles of jelly-filled doughnuts along with your kup(s) o' koffee so as to avoid personal reliability reports against your personal performance.

Tell the boss, "you deserve it."

Rare that I agree with GI; "The Wall" was much more. Try a video link authored by Roger Walters. Turn up the volume of your surround speaker system. You won't regret it.

Blues from the 25th Century.

Enjoy the music you like, I couldn't care less about your opinion if all you can manage is "none of their crap is even semi-good"

Punk rock is for posers that can't play actual music.

"If you can't play good,play fast and loud".

1950's

Elvis Presley - Elvis Presley 1956
Chuck Berry - After School Session 1956
The Crickets (Buddy Holly) - The "Chirping" Crickets 1957

1960's

The Beatles - Please Please Me 1963
Are You Experienced - The Jimi Hendrix Experience 1967
Truth - Jeff Beck 1968

1970's

Can't Buy A Thrill - Steely Dan 1972
The Clash - The Clash 1977
Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True 1977

1980's

U2 - Boy 1980
Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood 1982
R.E.M. - Murmur 1983
The Smithereens - Especially for You 1986
Tommy Keene - Songs From The Film - 1986

1990's

Copper Blue - Sugar 1992
New Miserable Experience - Gin Blossoms 1992

5. Ramones - Ramones - Kicked the door down for a generation of punk rockers

Which pretty much describes why none of their crap is even semi-good.

Took longer than usual for the thread to deteriorate into a "your music sucks" thread.

Often I have stated as my subjective opinion that ubiquitous, widely listenable Rock Music died in by the late 80s. 1987 to be exact. The reasons for this are many. SOME say it died with the advent of Disco (c. 1974-1975).

I agree with some aspects of your statement - however I don't believe that listenable rock music died in 1987. It was just moved to the back burner so to speak. Radio stations became more corporate controlled, many if not most of them got their playlists from central control and at that time a lot of stations were getting rid of local DJ's and relying on a more cookie cutter approach.

The good music has always been there - it just became more difficult to find stations that played it

...what Disco *did* do is prove to the corporate Music Industry and Record Producers that the quality musicianship and what makes "good music" was far less important than the packaging,

The "Disco Era" was a turning point in music, definitely a low point in musical history, but it did induce a backlash of sorts. The punk-rock scene developed at about that time - Sex Pistols, The Clash, Elvis Costello, The Jam - all of those bands and others created some great music in spite of disco being the dominant music genre at the time.

I think there will always be great, tuneful music, harmonies, melodies, musicians with great instrumental prowess and in a lot of ways there is even more than there has been in the past with the internet allowing any band to get their music out to the listeners, bypassing the control of record labels.

The downside is that there is so much music available now that it's sometimes difficult to find what you like.

HOW in the world did vulgar Ghetto Rap and female yodeling of "empowerment" whinefest anthems ever wind up the default "music" of pop culture for the last 25 years?

I read this article a number of years ago - it provides one theory as to why - take it with a grain of salt.

"The Secret Meeting that Changed Rap Music and Destroyed a Generation"

Interesting stuff.

HOW did Rap, wimpy male emo whining, and female yodeling and yapping EVER wind up displacing varied genres of pleasing music compositions, inspirational lyrics, swaying rhythms and sweet vocal and instrumental chords of the 50s-80s -- as well as its soulful, sunny harmonies?

My theory on that - especially the use of auto-tone to make the vocals on many songs sound robotic: The Transhumanist agenda

Transhumanism, a strange agglomeration of technology, politics, and even aspects of religion. The Transhumanist view of the future features a fully mechanized simulacrum of society teeming with visible and invisible robots and robotic functions that will engineer the minutia of life at every turn, presumably to make life easier and more fulfilling.

I'll see you, and raise you "Beware of Mr. Baker" on Netflix or wherever.

You could be right. Ginger Baker has been a crazed, belligerent lunatic for 50 years.

"Beware of Mr. Baker" looks interesting. (Or depressing, depending on your mood.)

Trailer:

Check out this Rolling Stone story fr0m 2009 (a South Africanthe guy is STILL alive today somehow):

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/the-devil-and-ginger-baker-20090820

'The Devil and Ginger Baker'

Inside a gated compound in South Africa, one of rock's most legendary drummers is still making enemies

Excerpt:

"F**kin' hell!" Ginger Baker shouts at the South African sunrise. His ritual morning curse complete, the 69-year-old drummer for Cream takes a deep pull on his morphine inhaler and throws his body back into the leather recliner where he spends the majority of his days.

As the drug takes effect, his tanned, weather-beaten face contracts and his vivid blue eyes go wide. His girlfriend, Kudzai, a beautiful 27-year-old from Zimbabwe he met on the Internet, hovers over him counting out his daily handful of antidepressants, stomach pills and painkillers.

"What are you looking at, Yankee!" Baker barks at me, his voice cutting through the silence like an animal shriek. Now that the morphine is running strong, he pops up out of his chair with the nervous energy of a teenager, but still he walks like a creaky old man....

Over the course of his life, during which he's raced bicycles and played polo, Baker has broken most of his ribs, mangled one of his arms and had his front teeth smashed in. He was recently diagnosed with a degenerative spine condition and the onset of emphysema. "God is punishing me for my past wickedness by keeping me alive and in as much pain as he can," Baker says bitterly.

Ginger Baker. He's been blessed than more than 99% of the population. Despite that the guy smoked like a chimney; Been a heroine addict for 50 years; Was reckless and rebellious and willfully disrespected his own body his entire life. Now it's all God's fault?

You wonder how the "Counselors" of the "Newton Model" would handle the case Ginger Baker. I'd imagine Baker's when his number was called, it would cause even that unlucky "team" to scatter ;-)

You could be right. Ginger Baker has been a crazed, belligerent lunatic...

Pretty much describes every great drummer.

Boston's second album was arguably better than the first.

I recall the anticipation of Boston's second album. Side One of the album was a good as anything on the debut Boston album.

Side 2 was a different story to me. It was turrible filler. Even Tom Scholtz conceded that knew it was pretty bad and was embarrassed by it. He felt rushed to submit the album to the record company before he was ready. Maybe if had had more time...

(crazed, belligerent lunatic...)

Pretty much describes every great drummer.

True to a large degree, ain't it?

On the otherhand Drummers seem to be either crazy OR the stabilizing factor.

Examples off the top of my head: Ringo, Charlie Watts, John Densmore (Doors).

That kind of reminds me of Meatloaf's "Two out of three ain't bad" in 1978. It was played 3 times an hour on any radio station you tuned in to. I liked it at first but grew sick of it by the end of the summer.

GREAT debut album by Meatloaf -- A definite Top Debut Album. Came out of the chute like absolute gangbusters. Like Boston, it seemed to be one of those albums that was its own genre. Arguably THE "Album of the Summer of 1978".

But yeah, "Two out of three ain't bad" was waaay overplayed, ruining it to a degree.

FWIW, the intro to 'Bat Out Of Hell' is a Top 3 Best intro to any song.

I was going to suggest Boston as well.

I understand Tom Scholz was an engineer at MIT and personally developed some of the electronics used for his guitar. Regardless of how it was done, the clean sounding electric guitar sound on their album was certainly was a new thing in the industry.

Glad I wasn't alone on that choice. Seemed like an obvious one...

Yup, Scholtz was an MIT engineer/nerd who did develop that totally unique guitar effect. I also appreciated that clean, note-holding tone.

Scholtz even marketed his electronic effect commercially as other bands also wound up usingit. He's *still* selling his doohickey for those who play electric guitar.

Everyone's ear is what it is, right?

THAT said:

5. Ramones - Ramones - Kicked the door down for a generation of punk rockers

Make that a garage door. The Ramones gave hope to every crummy teenage Garage Band who thought they were good enough to "make it". Mostly style over substance, a caricature. At the time, a wannabe. Nostalgia has created the legend.

4. Queen - Queen - Lyrics, melodies and Brian May

Brian May and his guitar was the best thing about Queen. That debut album gave a false hope of their "rock" future as Freddy Mercury took the band namesake literally as he transformed the band's sound into one giant Broadway effete showtune. If not for Wayne's World, Queen would have remained an embarrassing footnote representing "Fruit-Rock".

3. AC/DC – High Voltage - Speaks for itself

A legit heavy rock album

2. Rush – Rush - You cannot get better quality rock from 3 musicians

The irony is that Rush were 3 great musicians. Problem was their lack of composition skills. For a band who produced so many albums, the further irony was that rarely did they ever compose anything that flowed, was harmonious, and was epic or catchy. I found the vocals to be annoying. The band's most popular track (arguably), 'Tom Sawyer' to be too pretentious. Rush tried too hard to blend too many different styles and riffs (progressive, jazz, hard rock, emotional lyrics) into one song.

1. Bruce Springsteen - Greetings From Asbury Park - The Boss put the Jersey Shore sound on the table - still rocking 40 yearson....

Good effort by Springsteen. Nice debut album. His band's second album ('The Wild, Innocent & E. Street Shuffle') would have been a Top 7 Debut Album (IMO). Bruce hasn't cut a good album since 1984. That's nearly 35 years. His live show has always been one of the best.

The official band has, in fact, released new albums over the years but they've gone no where. It seems Scholz, for all his engineering genius, was a nitpicking perfectionist to the point of being a PITA...

Not only was he a nitpicking PITA, but pparently Scholtz was also an egomaniac with no sense of loyalty either (for all his brilliance.

That album cover of all the band members? Mostly a band-in-name and only show for the record company. Even though the band members were great musicians, Scholtz was greedy and didn't want to share the "glory".

Scholtz was said to have recorded that first album (as well as most instruments) all by himself in his basement. Brad Delp's vocals could NOT be duplicated of course.

How about a few choices in the past 100 Years, you old f**k.

Lol...that might have been the type of humor from my old gang once upon a time. Now even *I* know that was said in least HALF tongue-in-cheek.

When hanging out on the front porch we'd even get to the point where everyone's parents (no matter how nice they were) were targets of good-natured but biting derision. (I guess that's just NY/NJ/Philly-type humor.)