These people have no more control over who they are sexually attracted to than you do,so why do you think it is permissible for government to punish them for what amounts to a genetic birth defect?

I don't. Same way with adulterers (as they feel sexually attracted to other people's wives) , I do not want government to punish them.

Yeah who cares if those Catholics molest little kids. It is private and consensual right?

You would have a point if you could show us where it is only illegal for homosexuals to molest children,and just peachy-keen for pedophiles to molest children of the opposite sex.

You can't,so you don't have an argument.

Pedophilia is about the sexual attraction to CHILDREN.not just homosexual attraction to children of the same gender as the offender.

I am far from being an authority on this issue,but it seems like I read years ago that MOST pedophiles have a gender preference,but will abduct and rape children of either gender because their sexual "kink" is for children,not children of a specific gender.

This kind of conduct just cannot be allowed. They either need to be permanently sealed away from contact with any and all children,or chemically castrated as well as given drugs to decrease their sexual desire by checking in at a clinic every day and given the drug under medical supervision. If they are not willing to sign up for that,they just need to be locked away,

There should be laws against perverted sex acts.

Who gets to determine what is perverted,you?

And even further, all serial killers have been proven to be homosexual.

Where did you pick up on that little factoid? Hear if from your cult leader during Sunday services at the compound?

Why are catholics so tolerant of faggots?

Because Catholic Priests are their "mainline to Gawd",and Catholic Priests are not allowed to marry or date women. Kinda sets the tone for a certain type of male to want to become a Priest,doesn't it?

By 'adult activity' do you mean where one male shoves his pe-pee up another's poo-poo?

How old are you,9?

Does your mom know you are posting here?

Not so much any more unless they're rich and hire a surrogate mother.

Only if you live in a yuppie community like Hollywood,NYC,Bridgeport,etc,etc,etc.

The majority of children born to homosexuals are born to married male and female parents,and are usually the result of at least one partner being bi-sexual,in the closet due to guilt feelings,and trying to "pass" as what we all laughingly call "normal".

I don't. Same way with adulterers (as they feel sexually attracted to other people's wives) , I do not want government to punish them.

My apologies for misunderstanding you.

The majority of children born to homosexuals are born to married male and female parents,and are usually the result of at least one partner being bi-sexual,in the closet due to guilt feelings,and trying to "pass" as what we all laughingly call "normal".

There is another possible reason as well. A few that I know personally, sorely miss having a normal family life. They feel alone, and are sad when they see other people children and grandchildren. They told me this more than one time.

And curiously, they are quite conservative and dislike all those "LGBT" activists.

The majority of children born to homosexuals are born to married male and female parents,and are usually the result of at least one partner being bi-sexual,in the closet due to guilt feelings,and trying to "pass" as what we all laughingly call "normal".

You're living in the past.

Resurrect the law that outlaws homosexual acts and proselytizing today's thoroughly confused youth.

I'm all for it. There's nothing discriminatory or unconstitutional about regulating behavior. If we don't like it, why should we have to put up with it?

If liberals can ban prayer in schools -- a constitutional right protected by the first amendment -- we can certainly ban homosexual behavior.

These people have no more control over who they are sexually attracted to than you do,so why do you think it is permissible for government to punish them for what amounts to a genetic birth defect?

I don't.

You should. What about those born with "what amounts to a genetic birth defect" an attraction to young children? Animals? Dead bodies? They get a pass also because they were "born that way"?

There's a thing called "self- control". I don't care what you're attracted to. If society is against it, control yourself. We do not have to accept perversion.

You react with the same luke warmness that the Pope does when faggots are discovered in the Vatican in positions of influence. Your indifference to evil is your pc weakness.

Why are catholics so tolerant of faggots?

Because I believe in human liberty, and when it comes to victimless crimes, I believe that such things should be decriminalized so they are not crimes at all.

I do not want to pay police, prosecutors and prison guards, and empower them to intervene in people's bedrooms. I think people who are obsessed about the subject are themselves closeted perverts in some sense or others, sort of like cross-dressing Nancy-boy J. Edgar Hoover who loved to spy on people to get their sexual secrets, then blackmail them using it.

Because of that long-standing tradition of law enforcement and government to use evidence of criminalized private sex to control people, I want the power removed from government to do that. Monica Lewinsky and Stormy Daniels and that guy who Obama used to blow are not of concern to me, and I want to make sure the law stays with me, so that people who ARE concerned about these things are left without power to do anything about it.

I am not indifferent to evil: I think that extorting political concessions from people using the threat of revealing their sex lives is much, MUCH more evil than the actual sex acts.

You don't agree, obviously. The parameters of the law have been worked out in the public square, and the people agree with me a lot more than they agree with you, so you lose.

If society is against it, control yourself. We do not have to accept perversion.

If. Truth is, society is more against police intrusion in the bedroom than it is against perversion, and we - the majority -are right about that. So we've stripped away the power of you, the minority, to enforce laws on private sexual behavior. You still hate it, but you've lost the law. We took it from you, and we're not giving it back.

You have to accept that perversion is legal, because it is, and we're not going to let you make it illegal again.

I'm all for it. There's nothing discriminatory or unconstitutional about regulating behavior. If we don't like it, why should we have to put up with it?

You are a true democrat (little d): what "we", don't like, we don't put up with.

That's how we got to tolerating gays, legalizing marijuana, even ending the Vietnam War and racial segregation. We, the majority, finally got tired of putting up with things we didn't like, and we changed the law to suit us. It's why we have a progressive tax code instead of a flat tax or a national sales tax. It's why alcohol prohibition was thrown out.

It's why abortion was kept legal once the Supreme Court changed the law.

It's why the obscenity laws were swept away in all but name, and why sports betting will be sweeping across the USA soon.

It's why the 55 MPH speed limit didn't hold.

It's not hard to look at a couple of more things that we're beginning to like less and less: police brutality and school shootings.

On all of the various issues, the only one I can see that the people have gotten wrong has been abortion. So, I'm all for going the route you suggest: If WE don't like it, we outlaw it. WE is the people, the electorate.

We don't CARE about gay sex, and we don't LIKE laws that go into the bedroom. So now the former is legal, and the latter have been swept aside.

YOU don't like what the people like on a lot of vectors, which is why it's a mistake for you to take such a democratic line. Democracy works for me and the way I want to see things, it REALLY doesn't work for you. You're an authoritarian at heart. The people don't like what you like.

So yes, there's nothing discriminatory or unconstitutional about regulating behavior. if we don't like it, we should we have to put up with it? Let's put these things to a vote. Wait - we already have, in state after state. My side won.

So we've stripped away the power of you, the minority, to enforce laws on private sexual behavior.

I'm against the public, not private, behavior of gays.

I don't want my children exposed to perversion and a lifestyle choice associated with the spread of a deadly disease and other STDs, rampant drug use, sex orgies, sex with strangers, different sex partners every week, and a high rate of depression and suicide.

Even those gays who "fall in love" and "get married" feel no obligation to remain sexually monogamous.

So go ahead and engage in your private behavior. I won't stop you.

There is another possible reason as well. A few that I know personally, sorely miss having a normal family life. They feel alone, and are sad when they see other people children and grandchildren. They told me this more than one time.

And curiously, they are quite conservative and dislike all those "LGBT" activists.

I've had the same experiences with a few I have known.

The sad and simple truth is that most people just want to live normal lives and be happy.

Sounds easy to do,doesn't it?

The majority of children born to homosexuals are born to married male and female parents,and are usually the result of at least one partner being bi-sexual,in the closet due to guilt feelings,and trying to "pass" as what we all laughingly call "normal".

You're living in the past.

Really? Some super creature somewhere has developed a new and improved Mark 5 human?

I'm all for it. There's nothing discriminatory or unconstitutional about regulating behavior. If we don't like it, why should we have to put up with it?

It depends on the behavior and the situation,and you have to put up with it for the same reasons other people have to put up with YOUR brain farts,as long as you are not harming anyone else.

Nobody died and made you a public personality monitor.

If liberals can ban prayer in schools -- a constitutional right protected by the first amendment -- we can certainly ban homosexual behavior.

First of all,there is NOTHING the least bit "liberal" about those people,so quit bragging on them.

Secondly,you are a bleeping clueless fool if you can't understand that what YOU are demanding is PRECISELY the same thing you are bitching about,the right to deny other people their rights to live their lives in peace.

We, the majority, finally got tired of putting up with things we didn't like, and we changed the law to suit us.

Gays made their gains through the courts, not through the legislatures. Let's be clear about that.

You should. What about those born with "what amounts to a genetic birth defect" an attraction to young children? Animals? Dead bodies? They get a pass also because they were "born that way"?

Are you REALLY so stupid you can't figure that out?

You should have been born in Germany or Russia in the 20's. You would have fit right in with the official police state state of mind back then,and made a good work camp guard.

If. Truth is, society is more against police intrusion in the bedroom than it is against perversion, and we - the majority -are right about that. So we've stripped away the power of you, the minority, to enforce laws on private sexual behavior. You still hate it, but you've lost the law. We took it from you, and we're not giving it back.

ATTENTION MISTER WHITE!

NEENER,NEENER!

I'm against the public, not private, behavior of gays.

You sure don't sound like it. Seems to me every post you make is "there oughta be a law to make faggots illegal!"

Homosexuals father or give birth to children every day, and have done so since the dawn of time. You would agree that they do it a lower rate, based on common sense? Over the course of several generations such genes would be wiped out of the pool. Ergo - homosexuality is acquired.

Unfortunately your theorem isn't as supported as well as we might hope, there seems to be more of them or perhaps the zombie hordes have always been with us, hiding in the sewers like allegators

Gays made their gains through the courts, not through the legislatures. Let's be clear about that.

Not so. The Supreme Court swept aside statutes barring gay marriage, but anti-discrimination statutes have been put into place through the vote in states and municipalities all over the country.

In this sense, it is similar to Roe v. Wade, or to Prohibition.

Had a vote been taken to legalize abortion in 1973, it would have failed, but the Supreme Court ruled. Were it put to a vote today, abortion would remain legal.

In a similar vein, Prohibition was pushed through by organized Christian Temperance organizations, but once the law was in place the public at large resented the law, broke it on a massive scale, and ultimately overcame the standard apathy to come out and vote. Indeed, the drive to end Prohibition assisted FDR in getting elected President the first time.

The Courts and the ballot box work together to change things. Frequently the court breaks entrenched political power, and the people go to the ballot box to protect their gains against the revanche

Acts against NATURE should be condemned.

Condemned, sure. But outlawed? No. Empowers the police and politicians too much. If people want to piss on each other and roll around in feces, I think there's something wrong with them. If they do it in the street that needs to be stopped. But to empower the authorities to go into private places to stop and punish things that people do in private? No. It's much worse to have such powerful police than it is to have people committing acts against nature.

"My dear, I don't care what people do so long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses." - Mrs. Patrick Campbell

I agree with her.

perhaps the zombie hordes have always been with us, hiding in the sewers like allegators

What? Wait. You mean the sewers AREN'T swarming with zombies and alligators?

But to empower the authorities to go into private places to stop and punish things that people do in private? No.

I suppose it follows, then, to ask "Where do you draw the line?"

After all, people can molest children, beat slaves, drown puppies, traffic heroin and make bombs in private. Do we just let that go?

No. You draw the line at murder, non-consensual sex, slavery, animal cruelty and terrorism. Drugs is where the issue gets muddier. Is it better to maintain drug prohibition and thereby keep the general level of drug abuse and drug addiction lower in the society, as alcohol prohibition did (50% reduction in cirrhosis during prohibition - it massively reduced alcoholism and drunkness, but at the price of intrusion and organized crime)? Or is it better to let people consume what they will unmolested, and treat the results medically?

I would say it's a line-drawing exercise, just as drinking ages are. Strong drugs such as LSD and opiods are terrifically destructive fast. Weak drugs, such as cannabis or nicotine, don't destroy most people who have used them, and most people have tried them at one point or other in their lives.

The line is drawn where democracy draws it. If I were King, or running a political party, I would call of marijuana to be treated as tobacco, and for the drinking age to be lowered to 18.

I expect that in our democracy, I will eventually win on the first point: pot is gradually being legalized. I'm not really comfortable with that: I would have preferred that the harsh drug laws from Rockefeller until now really had stamped out drugs. But they didn't, and they won't, and I'm not willing to go on chewing up lives in a losing war.

I expect that I would lose on the second: when the drinking age was 18 there was a lot more death on the roads from drunken high schoolers.

Over the course of several generations such genes would be wiped out of the pool.

Ergo - homosexuality is acquired.

The basic concept behind the reasoning is flawed.

Is adultery acquired? What about democracy?

The basic concept behind the reasoning is flawed.

It is not. You do not understand how natural selection work.

Is adultery acquired? What about democracy?

Tendency toward adultery is based on genes. Why? Because it helps to pass MORE genes to the next generation.

Tendency toward equality and justice is supported by the selection as it secures more genes for the weaker to pass. So is tendency to dominate and grab more - it helps strong to increase their share in the pool.

You will say it is contradictory. Yes, because nature is not a legal code.

I could have that discussion with you, if you really wanted it. This forum is a strange place to try to have such a discussion, because it will be like Socrates and Plato having a discussion around a campfire...in a jungle full of angry bears and wild bucks in rutting season.

Still, if you really want to have that discussion, we can. Could be interesting.

Still, if you really want to have that discussion, we can. Could be interesting.

These topics are more like work for me. Actually it was in my past. I could explain one thing or two, but to debate, the topics would have to be more advanced.

For example how the neo-Lamarckian schemes and original (pre-genetic) Darwinism relate to gene sharing and communication within ecosystems and biosphere as a whole. Also how the gene switching is regulated. Also the role of inter-population segregation in targeted streams of micro-evolution. Evolution of human gene pools interacting with collective psyche. Etc ...

These topics are more like work for me. Actually it was in my past. I could explain one thing or two, but to debate, the topics would have to be more advanced.

For example how the neo-Lamarckian schemes and original (pre-genetic) Darwinism relate to gene sharing and communication within ecosystems and biosphere as a whole. Also how the gene switching is regulated. Also the role of inter-population segregation in targeted streams of micro-evolution. Evolution of human gene pools interacting with collective psyche. Etc ...

I didn't say debate. I find debate useless and uninteresting. Nobody ever convinced me of anything by taking an adversarial position to me and fighting with me. Not one time, in 55 years, has anybody ever convinced me of a single thing by debate. Debate is completely useless.

I said "discuss", which is different.

Not so. The Supreme Court swept aside statutes barring gay marriage, but anti-discrimination statutes have been put into place through the vote in states and municipalities all over the country.

From Wiki:

"The strongest expansions in LGBT rights in the United States have come from the United States Supreme Court. In four landmark rulings between the years 1996 and 2015, the Supreme Court invalidated a state law banning protected class recognition based upon homosexuality, struck down sodomy laws nationwide, struck down Section 3 of the Defense of Marriage Act, and made same- sex marriage legal nationwide."

"Adoption of children by same-sex married couples is legal nationwide since June 2015 following the Supreme Court's decision in Obergefell v. Hodges."

When you can't get the votes, plead your case in front of a socially liberal court.

Acts against NATURE should be condemned.

I'll agree with you when nature files a suit in court and testifies,and wins.

But to empower the authorities to go into private places to stop and punish things that people do in private?

Who is doing that?

Prohibition was pushed through by organized Christian Temperance organizations

Who,like all the other commie "do-gooder" organizations was anything BUT "temperate".

No. You draw the line at murder, non-consensual sex, slavery, animal cruelty and terrorism.

Unfortunately common sense is very uncommon,and WAAAAY too many people confuse their own personal biases with common sense.

"Why,if I had MY way........."

It is not. You do not understand how natural selection work.

No,you don't. You confuse religious doctrine and prejudices with nature.

Nature doesn't give a flaming flip WHAT you,me,or anyone else thinks. Nature is something we deal with by trying to adapt to it,not something we give orders.

For example how the neo-Lamarckian schemes and original (pre-genetic) Darwinism relate to gene sharing and communication within ecosystems and biosphere as a whole. Also how the gene switching is regulated. Also the role of inter-population segregation in targeted streams of micro-evolution. Evolution of human gene pools interacting with collective psyche. Etc ...

You have no excuse at all for your arguments against the existence of homosexuality.

Ergo - homosexuality is acquired.

In my opinion what's acquired is the predisposition to homosexuality -- as with the predisposition to pedophilia, alcoholism, drug use, smoking or being overweight, to name a few.

Doesn't mean you have to engage in that behavior, or that you're entitled to engage in that behavior, or that the rest of us have to accept that behavior as normal.

When you can't get the votes, plead your case in front of a socially liberal court.

Yep. That's our system. The quickest way to ban abortion completely is to get five pro-life justices and have them abolish abortion nationwide as a matter of constitutional right of persons to life.

The power is there. The only question is: who is to wield it?

Doesn't mean you have to engage in that behavior, or that you're entitled to engage in that behavior, or that the rest of us have to accept that behavior as normal.

That is true. The only behavior we HAVE to engage in, involuntarily, is breathing and excreting.

So, the question is: what are you ENTITLED to engage in? I think we would both come down on the side of saying "What the law of our land lets us do."

So then it's purely a question of what that law should be (and who decides).

I think that the law should let people have whatever sex they please with other consenting adults, and I think the law should not give any recourse to those who dislike that. And that's actually what our law DOES, right now, so I am content with it.

The only question, then, is whether or not we have to ACCEPT legal behavior as "normal". You and I both don't think that homosexual activity is "normal". It's deviant. I shrug my shoulders at it because I just don't care what people do. You are horrified by it. I think it's important that you don't get to express your horror legally in any way, that you essentially have to passively accept something you really don't like, even if you don't think it's normal at all, because the law says it's legal.

In the same vein, I know that abortion is the intentional pre-meditated murder of an innocent unborn child. It horrifies me, and if I had the power, I would outlaw it and punish those who commit it. But the law is against me, so however abnormal I find the activity and the law, I just have to lump it. If it's important enough to me, I can emigrate to get away from that law, or I can persuade other people to agree with me and get an administration in there that will put five like-minded people on the Supremes.

In general, I find the liberalizing and relaxing of legal restraints on personal liberty to be a very good thing and I support it. I think we went too far with abortion, but everything else seems, on balance, positive to me. Including letting gays have whatever sex they want to have. I don't care. And I don't think that people who DO care, like you do, should have any say in it. So the law is permissive, and the politics have to be strong enough to stop you in your tracks. One of us is going to be unhappy. In general, moralistic, puritanical and racist types have had their politics beaten down and beaten back over the course of American history, and greater and greater liberty has emerged. I strongly support that trend, both of freeing people from puritanical laws, and of putting into place the political and legal structures to prevent your side from regaining momentum to ever be able to change any of the rules back.

Ergo, for example, in the case of race, not only did slavery and segregation need to be formally outlawed on paper, but we needed the FBI and internal intelligence and law enforcement apparatus of state to go in and smash the KKK and related organizations, to prosecute and persecute and beat them down sufficiently that people recognized that they would pay a heavy social, economic, political and economic price if they sided with the losing side of that fight. The past was racially oppressive. People did not change their minds easily. So once the racists were defeated in physical and legal battle, they needed to be forcibly oppressed by the government, persecuted, so that people would be afraid to join their ranks or mouth support for them, for fear of their own well being.

This was effective. The KKK was once a mighty organization that struck fear into many, both physical fear on the ground and also in the halls of power. But they were defeated and reduced, to the point that only a crazy person on the margins who was so filled with racial hatred that he would be willing to give up any prospects of a decent job or a normal life would join.

In some lands in history, masturbation was a mortal sin, and was punished violently through public whipping or worse. Unmarried heterosexual fornication and gay sex in private between consenting adults both fall into the category of masturbation: things that are nobody's business, that nobody should be able to punish. Since some people want to, and are unhappy if those things are allowed, those people have to be kept unhappy, by making damned sure they cannot wrest back control of the law to reimpose their views.

It's all based on power.

In my opinion what's acquired is the predisposition to homosexuality

You meant "acquired" or "inherited"?

There are two common etiologies of homosexuality:

One is a distant father and domineering mother. This causes fear of woman and longing for a male figure.

Then the second might add up - a seduction by a pederast in early adolescence.

Unmarried heterosexual fornication and gay sex in private between consenting adults both fall into the category of masturbation

Not exactly. Into category of mutual masturbation falls female homosexuality and sometimes male homosexuality. Heterosexual fornication is not a masturbation.

Serious unnatural sin is anal sex, also among heterosexual couples, perhaps lighter in the later case.

At least so say canons of the Orthodox Church that deal with sins and penance.

Not exactly. Into category of mutual masturbation falls female homosexuality and sometimes male homosexuality. Heterosexual fornication is not a masturbation.

I did not mean the mechanics. I meant to say that these are all grave sexual sins, according to the dominant religions anyway.

In general, I find the liberalizing and relaxing of legal restraints on personal liberty to be a very good thing and I support it.

Well, that would work in a society consisting solely of responsible adults -- as would most Libertarian ideas.

But our society also consists of impressionable children along with irresponsible adults who expect, nay demand, the rest of us to pick up the tab when things go bad for them.

Meaning, your argument is specious.

You meant "acquired" or "inherited"?

Ah. I had assumed you defined them the same way. I meant the predisposition was "inherited".

Given that predisposition, environment and sexual experiences would then influence the individual's decision to take the path of homosexuality.

The bottom line is that I believe homosexuality is not genetic and people choose that lifestyle because of the above.

So, the question is: what are you ENTITLED to engage in? I think we would both come down on the side of saying "What the law of our land lets us do."

Nope. It would be the behavior you choose to do because you're you. No one gets to tell YOU what to do. You're "entitled" to do whatever your personal moral compass allows.

An example of this would be Jeremiah Johnson or any of his mountain men friends. They live above the treeline and away from civilization.

Yor problem is that you want to behave like a mountain man but live among the rest of us. Doesn't work that way.