Four thousand.

Yeah. Some wandering Jew pitched a tent in the desert 4,000 years ago and that established the State of Israel forever.

The Jews legally bought and owned the land.

From whom?

Other Arab countries have plenty of money to take care of these squatters if they really wanted to.

And Israel has plenty of money and territory to abide by UN 242 and allow the Palestinians their own state.

As late as 1880, the American consul in Jerusalem reported the area was continuing its historic decline. "The population and wealth of Palestine has not increased during the last forty years," he said.

The Report of the Palestine Royal Commission quotes an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:

The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]....Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen....The ploughs used were of wood....The yields were very poor....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist....The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert....The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.

Lewis French, the British Director of Development wrote of Palestine:

We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered severely from the prevalent malaria....Large areas...were uncultivated....The fellahin, if not themselves cattle thieves, were always ready to harbor these and other criminals. The individual plots...changed hands annually. There was little public security, and the fellahin's lot was an alternation of pillage and blackmail by their neighbors, the Bedouin.

Surprisingly, many people who were not sympathetic to the Zionist cause believed the Jews would improve the condition of Palestinian Arabs. For example, Dawood Barakat, editor of the Egyptian paper Al-Ahram, wrote: "It is absolutely necessary that an entente be made between the Zionists and Arabs, because the war of words can only do evil. The Zionists are necessary for the country: The money which they will bring, their knowledge and intelligence, and the industriousness which characterizes them will contribute without doubt to the regeneration of the country."

Even a leading Arab nationalist believed the return of the Jews to their homeland would help resuscitate the country. According to Sherif Hussein, the guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia:

The resources of the country are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants. One of the most amazing things until recent times was that the Palestinian used to leave his country, wandering over the high seas in every direction. His native soil could not retain a hold on him, though his ancestors had lived on it for 1000 years. At the same time we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine from Russia, Germany, Austria, Spain, America. The cause of causes could not escape those who had a gift of deeper insight. They knew that the country was for its original sons (abna'ihi­l­asliyin), for all their differences, a sacred and beloved homeland. The return of these exiles (jaliya) to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually [to be] an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades and in all things connected with toil and labor.

A Population Boom

As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 1922­1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem. Jewish Land Purchases

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."

It was only after the Jews had bought all of this available land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al-Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land." Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (author's emphasis).

Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin. Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el­Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.

And Israel has plenty of money and territory to abide by UN 242 and allow the Palestinians their own state.

The Palestinians have actually had numerous opportunities to create an independent state, but have repeatedly rejected the offers:

In 1937, the Peel Commission proposed the partition of Palestine and the creation of an Arab state.

In 1939, the British White Paper proposed the creation of a unitary Arab state.

In 1947, the UN would have created an even larger Arab state as part of its partition plan.

The 1979 Egypt-Israel peace negotiations offered the Palestinians autonomy, which would almost certainly have led to full independence.

The Oslo agreements of the 1990s laid out a path for Palestinian independence, but the process was derailed by terrorism.

In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank.

In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis.

In addition 1948 to 1967, Israel did not control the West Bank. The Palestinians could have demanded an independent state from the Jordanians. On the contrary whilst Jordan was in control Arafat said there was no longer a claim as it was no longer part of Palestine. Once it was back in Israeli hands it miraculously became disputed land again! This is one of many reasons Jews and Israelis are cynical.

The Palestinians have spurned each of these opportunities. A variety of reasons have been given for why the Palestinians have in Abba Eban’s words, “never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” Historian Benny Morris has suggested that the Palestinians have religious, historical, and practical reasons for opposing an agreement with Israel. He says that “Arafat and his generation cannot give up the vision of the greater land of Israel for the Arabs. [This is true because] this is a holy land, Dar al-Islam [the world of Islam]. It was once in the hands of the Muslims, and it is inconceivable [to them] that infidels like us [the Israelis] would receive it.”

The Palestinians also believe that time is on their side. “They feel that demographics will defeat the Jews in one hundred or two hundred years, just like the Crusaders.” The Palestinians, Morris says, also hope the Arabs will acquire nuclear weapons in the future that will allow them to defeat Israel.

In 2000, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip. In addition, he agreed to dismantle 63 isolated settlements. In exchange for the 3 percent annexation of the West Bank, Israel said it would give up territory in the Negev that would increase the size of the Gaza territory by roughly a third.

Barak also made previously unthinkable concessions on Jerusalem, agreeing that Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capital of the new state. The Palestinians would maintain control over their holy places and have “religious sovereignty” over the Temple Mount.

According to U.S. peace negotiator Dennis Ross, Israel offered to create a Palestinian state that was contiguous, and not a series of cantons. Even in the case of the Gaza Strip, which must be physically separate from the West Bank unless Israel were to be cut into non-contiguous pieces, a solution was devised whereby an overland highway would connect the two parts of the Palestinian state without any Israeli checkpoints or interference. The proposal also addressed the Palestinian refugee issue, guaranteeing them the right of return to the Palestinian state and reparations from a $30 billion fund that would be collected from international donors to compensate them.

“In his last conversation with President Clinton, Arafat told the President that he was “a great man.” Clinton responded, “The hell I am. I’m a colossal failure, and you made me one.”

Arafat was asked to agree to Israeli sovereignty over the parts of the Western Wall religiously significant to Jews (i.e., not the entire Temple Mount), and three early warning stations in the Jordan Valley, which Israel would withdraw from after six years. Most important, however, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict with Israel was over at the end of the negotiations. This was the true deal breaker. Arafat was not willing to end the conflict. “For him to end the conflict is to end himself,” said Ross.

The prevailing view of the Camp David/White House negotiations—that Israel offered generous concessions, and that Yasser Arafat rejected them to pursue the war that began in September 2000—was acknowledged for more than a year. To counter the perception that Arafat was the obstacle to peace, the Palestinians and their supporters then began to suggest a variety of excuses for why Arafat failed to say “yes” to a proposal that would have established a Palestinian state.

The truth is that if the Palestinians were dissatisfied with any part of the Israeli proposal, all they had to do was offer a counterproposal. They never did.

Anyone that is against Israel should satisfy themselves as why this may have been?

I believe, when it comes to the Palestinians, as David Crosby has it: "They Want It All"

I believe, when it comes to the Palestinians, as David Crosby has it: "They Want It All"

The Saudi Peace Plan calls for a Palestinian State with the borders defined in UN 242 (in the aftermath of the Six-Day War). This gives Israel more land than they had before under UN 181.

Israel rejected it and continues to this day to steal land beyond the Green Line. Because they can.

Those so called "Palestinians" weren't even there until the Jews bought the land and made it inhabitable.

The only people there were Palestinians until the Jews fled Europe and moved in. They bought the land from Palestinians, nitwit.

In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank.

Palestine would look like Indonesia without the water.

In 1947, Israel accepted the UN partition plan that allotted it only part of the land west of the Jordan, even though all Palestine west and east of the Jordan had been mandated to the British for the cultivation of a Jewish homeland. The Arab leaders rejected the plan.

After the War of Independence, Israel offered compensation for the property that displaced Arabs had lost (some accepted compensation, many didn't), and it allowed thousands of Arabs back.

In 1967, having conquered Jerusalem, Israel refrained from asserting full authority over the Temple Mount, leaving day-to-day management to the Muslim Waqf. Rather than keep the West Bank Arabs at a distance, it allowed them free travel into Israel and back (until terrorism forced a stop).

In the Oslo agreements, which were intended (at least by Israel) as an interim step toward a termination of conflict, Israel allowed the Palestinian Arab leaders, despite their terrorist past, to return from Tunisian exile and form the Palestinian Authority. It gave them civilian authority over a large portion of the population and terrain and it permitted the return of thousands more Arabs into Israel itself.

In the course of further negotiations, Israel has made such gestures as prisoner releases and building freezes. The most dramatic gesture was the total withdrawal from Gaza. Just as Oslo was followed by a wave of suicide bombings against Israel, the withdrawal from Gaza was followed by rocket attacks on Israel. Nonetheless, to this day Israel provides water and electricity to Gaza.

There are small concessions being offered all the time. For the most part, Israel has stuck to the 1993 Oslo Accords in terms of passing on territory to the Palestinian government as they have not fulfilled their end of the deal that would facilitate more transfers.

I really don’t want to go into all the concessions, but I’ll just state two instances.

The first and more recent was an attempt to kickstart peace talks before Donald Trump visited Israel.

The other and more well known concession was when Israel released 104 long-term prisoners, including murderers and those who assisted murders from prison as part of a demand to start peace talks with the Palestinians. I can’t think of any country other than Israel that would do that.

The only people there were Palestinians until the Jews fled Europe and moved in.

They bought the land from a number of Arabs at inflated prices. The so-called Palestinians are mostly just Jordanians.

I didn't realize LF was such a hotbed of Israel-haters.

These guys are pikers compared to the Jew haters over at Freedumb4um.

We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered severely from the prevalent malaria

There were other British reports, also from XIX century, about poverty in Irish villages. Must be English rule there was not much better , than of the Turks.

Do you hate Irish too?

Photos from Jewish town in 1920s Poland:

Next decade, poor Americans:

Poor Polish children in 1930s Poland:

Maybe you hate these guys:

Look, half of my family was killed during the WWII by people like you. I know your kind.

It is you who hates people who are weaker, or poor, or stigmatized.

I do not hate you at all. Probably you act our early trauma, when you felt to be under.

It is you who hates people who are weaker, or poor, or stigmatized.

I don't see that coming from gnu.

But there is a real stench of unwarranted smug condescension and Lefty accusations of various "thought crimes" reeking in every post you make.

My dad grew up in the depression and was genuinely hungry almost every day of his life at that time.

This isn't about poor people. It's about propaganda - keeping people poor to promote a political agenda.

I don't hate anybody poor, Pole. My dad grew up in the depression and was genuinely hungry almost every day of his life at that time.

So you try to distance yourself from the poor and excluded, by contempt and hostility.

I had comfortable childhood. Not because my parents were Commies, they were professionals who had good start before Communism. After the Communists took over they got "impoverished" as they could have only one servant. Grandparents had several.

I do not claim any credit for my inherited privilege, same way I do not put any blame on my friends of poor background.

Yet, sometimes I feel in them bitterness and resentment toward people like me. Those are toxic feeling, try to free yourself from them. Life and universe are greater than the social divisions and injustice.

But there is a real stench of unwarranted smug condescension and Lefty accusations of various "thought crimes" reeking in every post you make.

Sorry, I will try harder not to be smug ;)

The people in Palestine could be living in luxury right now if the other Muslims wanted it.

They bought the land from a number of Arabs at inflated prices.

Just the opposite. They screwed the ignorant peasants.

Man, you are like 0 for 10 in your claims. Where are you getting your information from?

What voluntary concessions has Israel made in their conflict with the Palestinians?

Honestly? They offered not to take as much land as they were planning on taking. That's their "concession".

"even though all Palestine west and east of the Jordan had been mandated to the British for the cultivation of a Jewish homeland."

Nope. The Balfour Declaration stated, “His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.”

A home for the Jewish people in Palestine. Not, "All of Palestine as a home for the Jewish people. All others not welcome". Which is how the Israelis read it.

You cannot reasonably hope to persuade them by arguing from the facts.

I'm waiting for facts. All I'm getting is propaganda.

The most dramatic gesture was the total withdrawal from Gaza.

Not total withdrawal. Israel continues their 12-year blockade of Gaza which has "devastated Gaza's economy, caused widespread destruction and left most people largely cut off from the outside world."

Then Israel has the balls to say, "See? The Palestinians can't function without us."

Where are you getting your information from?

Reputable sources. I've given numerous examples of where Israel tried to give reasonable offers to these mongrel Arabs, and you you have ignored them all. Arafat died a multi-millionaire. Why do you think that is?

This could go on forever. If you wish to worship people who cheered the 911 terrorism and want to hate Jews, feel free to continue in your line of thought. However, I am done.

I've given numerous examples of where Israel tried to give reasonable offers

They were not the least bit reasonable. UN 242 was reasonable. The Saudi Peace Plan was reasonable.

I need XXL size, hard to find. Really.

Go to the hospitals that specialize in treating hydrocephalics.

Yeah. Some wandering Jew pitched a tent in the desert 4,000 years ago and that established the State of Israel forever.

That's the way that "claims" get made, isn't it?

"It's mine!" "No it isn't!" "It's MINE!" "Why would you even think that?" "Because I said 'It's mine' first!" "So what?" "So therefore, it's mine!" "No it isn't." "Well, me and this gun here say that it's mine." "Ah. Well. Alright then."

Later: "He ADMITTED that it's mine!" "No I didn't." "You said 'Alright', which means that you admitted it's mine." "No, you were pointing a gun at me, so I said what I needed to say to save my life. I do not admit that it's yours." "You did!" "I did not!" "You DID!" "No, I didn't."

Both whip out guns and shoot each other, with their families watching.

10 years later, the boy of one of the deceased says to the boy of the other "It's mine!"

Go to the hospitals that specialize in treating hydrocephalics.

He, he. I did have tomography. No water, only brain tissue.

Palestine refers to a region. There is no country of Palestine.

And there won't be if Israel has their way.

And either way it is none of our concern.

so this would suggest Russians are smarter than the rest,

I don't know if Russians are smarter than other Europeans,but I do know they are the only Europeans who haven't been living as slaves ever since the country was founded. First it was the Czar,and then it was the Commizar. Either way things were upside down,and the idiots were in charge. A smart man that wants to live takes care to not embarrass or insult his idiot master.

I also know I have met a hell of a lot of smart Russians.

My head is too large for the hats. I need XXL size, hard to find. Really.

Have you tried letting some of the hot air escape?

They like the cold.

Yeah,those two look like they are having fun.

Yeah. Some wandering Jew pitched a tent in the desert 4,000 years ago and that established the State of Israel forever.

Why do you care?

These guys are pikers compared to the Jew haters over at Freedumb4um.

No kidding. I finally had to quit posting there. You just can't reason with foaming at the mouth cretins.

Why do you care?

That's where I am on this conflict between Jew and Muslim, Israeli and Palestinian, and the whole Middle East.

Time was, we needed the oil, so it mattered. Now we are an oil exporter, so the whole region doesn't matter so much.

It's a hopeless mess because of 4000 years of stubborn and violent culture. Two religions, neither of which are mine, are in violent conflict (my co- religionists are being driven out of the region in droves).

So, I say have generous immigration to CHRISTIANS fleeing the violence of the Middle East - and Christianity is easy to test. And as to the rest of the nuthouse? Not my circus, not my monkeys, don't need the region, don't care, ain't gonna - and wish we'd just get out.

THAT'S why I care.

That's our tax dollars. And what has it gotten us? THAT'S why I care.

Don't take it personally and you don't know they got it anyway, many intermediataries. Giving people aid doesn't buy you anything, not even loyality

Giving people aid doesn't buy you anything, not even loyality

Don't be ridiculous! It buys votes every day of the week,and politicians exist to gather votes. Kind of like tiny little perpetual motion machines. They say they have to get voted back into office in order to do anything,so they need to focus more on gathering votes than anything else. ESPECIALLY more than they spend on trying to bring America back on a Constitutional footing. kinda makes you wonder which came first,the bribe or the vote,doesn't it?

I also know I have met a hell of a lot of smart Russians.

It doesn't explain why they are so poor with an economy much smaller than Texas despite considerable oil wealth. They also tend to drink themselves to death at an early age. And they only seem happy while living under despots of some flavor or another. It never works out for them though.

Maybe they aren't so smart.

kinda makes you wonder which came first, the bribe or the vote, doesn't it?

Certainly the bribe

"The U.S. has sent almost $300 billion in military and economic aid to troubled Middle East and Central Asian countries over the past six decades." That's our tax dollars. And what has it gotten us?

THAT'S why I care.

We are brothers on THAT one!

I say we just let the backwards bastards kill each other off,and maybe make a few bucks selling them weapons to do it with.

It doesn't explain why they are so poor with an economy much smaller than Texas despite considerable oil wealth.

No,but communism does.

They also tend to drink themselves to death at an early age.

Yes,they do. If you didn't know any better,you would think they are Irish.

In the case of the Russians,it is 100 years of being born and living in a communist police state.

In the case of the Irish,it is possibly hundreds of years of living in a Catholic police state,plus they just like to drink and fight.

And they only seem happy while living under despots of some flavor or another.

And how would we know that? Other than the 15 minutes or so of living free under Yeltsin,all they have ever known were despots,going back to the time of the Mongol invasions. Maybe even before the Mongols.

It never works out for them though.

It never works out for anyone but the despot and his family.

kinda makes you wonder which came first, the bribe or the vote, doesn't it?

Certainly the bribe

You are right,of course. In fact,it could be safely claimed that a vote is little more than a bribe magnet.

And how would we know that? Other than the 15 minutes or so of living free under Yeltsin,all they have ever known were despots,going back to the time of the Mongol invasions. Maybe even before the Mongols.

Well, as Kanye said, after 400 years it sounds like a choice.

Well, as Kanye said, after 400 years it sounds like a choice.

Hey! If you can't trust the wisdom of a brilliant man like Kanye,who can you trust?

Hey! If you can't trust the wisdom of a brilliant man like Kanye,who can you trust?

Oh, spare us the sarcasm, please