Nice video about the Nazi army enjoying a luxurious winter vacation with their Soviet hosts in Stalingrad.

Don't be jealous, you can go there too.

sneakypete (#4). --- Nice video about the Nazi army enjoying a luxurious winter vacation with their Soviet hosts in Stalingrad.

Don't be jealous, you can go there too. --- A Pole

Pete did go to Russia, correct? Did you get down to Stalingrad?

A good friend (history teacher) organised a trip to the USSR/Stalingrad during the Reagan era. -- The Intourist agency canceled our trip at the last minute, with no explanation. -- We figured that one of us must have been outed as a spy...

sneakypete (#4). --- Nice video about the Nazi army enjoying a luxurious winter vacation with their Soviet hosts in Stalingrad.

Don't be jealous, you can go there too. --- A Pole

Pete did go to Russia, correct? Did you get down to Stalingrad?

A good friend (history teacher) organised a trip to the USSR/Stalingrad during the Reagan era. -- The Intourist agency canceled our trip at the last minute, with no explanation. -- We figured that one of us must have been outed as a spy...

We figured that one of us must have been outed as a spy...

It was you, wasn't it?     : )

When I first saw that picture, I thought it was present day Detroit ! : )

I thought Baltimore.

--one of us must have been outed as a spy...

It was you, wasn't it?

Trust me.. It's better you don't know... ;-)

Pete did go to Russia, correct? Did you get down to Stalingrad?

Nope,just Moscow once,and Yoshkar-Ola once. I intended to go back again and buy or rent a Ural motorcycle with a side car,and take a ride from Moscow to St.Petersburg to see some of the more rural areas,and of course to visit the Hermitage,but got sick and never made it back again.

Pete did go to Russia, correct? Did you get down to Stalingrad?

Nope,just Moscow once,and Yoshkar-Ola once. I intended to go back again and buy or rent a Ural motorcycle with a side car,and take a ride from Moscow to St.Petersburg to see some of the more rural areas,and of course to visit the Hermitage,but got sick and never made it back again.

sneakypete

What in hell did you do in Yoshkar-Ola?

Much the same happened to me on my much looked forward to trip to Munich, and the October Fest..

You can guess, I had it all ready to do, -- the week after 9/11...

What in hell did you do in Yoshkar-Ola?

Long story short,I was there visiting a woman I had made friends with while researching the origins of man. She was half-Mari,and the woman that created the first written dictionary of Mari words and terms. She was a linguist at the local university there,and read,wrote,and spoke 5 languages. Her husband was an engineering professor at the same university,and he also spoke excellent English.

The Mari are,for want of a better definition,"Russia's Indians. They were there when the first Caucasians showed up. The were also a few in Finland that mostly followed the reindeer herds,and a few in Hungrary. Look at photos of the Mari of the 20's and 30's,and you think you are looking at Cherokees. Birch bark canoes,teepees,feathers in their hair,etc,etc,etc.

" I thought Baltimore. "

Might be. I never did drive into Baltimore. I suspect there are multiple large cities that look like that.

But back when I was a truck driver, I frequently went to Detroit, and believe me, a whole lot of that shit hole looks like that!

The Mari are,for want of a better definition,"Russia's Indians. They were there when the first Caucasians showed up. The were also a few in Finland that mostly followed the reindeer herds,and a few in Hungrary.

Sounds like Norway's 'Sami?'.. I married into San Francisco's Norwegian community, and they were big on that kinda stuff.. -- Interesting....

Sounds like Norway's 'Sami?'..

It's been years since I have thought about this and Natalia and her husband are both long dead now,so I can't even ask them,but IIRC,the Sami are sort of distant cousins who share some of the same words,and known for having red hair. NOT dyed,red hair at birth.

If you get away from Moscow and St.Petersburg there are still obvious traces of the Mongol invasion when looking at the faces of the locals. My friend Natalia was married to a Slav,and she could have easily passed for a Slav herself if she wanted because she had black hair,blue eyes,and pale skin. No question about her ancestors,though. Her mother was a full-blooded Mari.

I find this sort of thing to be insanely interesting,and honestly can't understand why everybody isn't fascinated with it.

BTW,in the mid 90's there was still a remote tribe of locals living along the coast in Siberia that were "original peoples" to that area as far as anyone knew. They had their own language and customs,and were basically subsistence fishermen and trappers. The tribe was so small and so remote that even Stalin saw no harm in them,so he didn't move them to a city were they would be watched and no danger to him,and where their genes would be lost as the boys and girls did their things.

There were only about 400 of them still living in the tribal area in the mid-90's when scientists discovered and got to them to research the origins of the tribe,and by then fewer than 100 of them spoke the native language. The younger ones had gone "all Russian".

The most amazing thing,IMHO,that was discovered about them by western linguists is that you could take one of the tribal members that spoke their original language,pick him up and drop him off at a Sioux reservation in the US,and he and the Sioux had enough words in common they could both speak to each other and be understood while speaking their native languages.

Just think,cousins separated by a melting land bridge thousands of years ago,and nobody had a clue about this until the USSR fell.

The most amazing thing,IMHO,that was discovered about them by western linguists is that you could take one of the tribal members that spoke their original language,pick him up and drop him off at a Sioux reservation in the US,and he and the Sioux had enough words in common they could both speak to each other and be understood while speaking their native languages.

Just think,cousins separated by a melting land bridge thousands of years ago,and nobody had a clue about this until the USSR fell.

I find this sort of thing to be insanely interesting,and honestly can't understand why everybody isn't fascinated with it.

I've long shared this interest.. Thanks for your info, pete..

After the army I did a lot of construction work in the Dakotas, where the Sioux are still on the reservations,--- and far too many of them seem to be content to just exist there --- Perhaps there's something in their tribal culture where they just give up after being captured.. But after several generations, over 100 years, I wonder why so many of these proud people are in effect, institutionalizing themselves..

I wonder why so many of these proud people are in effect, institutionalizing themselves.

What would you expect them to do?

After the army I did a lot of construction work in the Dakotas, where the Sioux are still on the reservations,--- and far too many of them seem to be content to just exist there -

Of course. Making them tame pets with no self-respect that are totally dependent on the government was the intent of the Reservation System.

Section 8 housing and welfare programs are just more modern approaches that eliminate the obvious "Reservation" stigma and allows the denizens to still pretend they are free.

I wonder why so many of these proud people are in effect, institutionalizing themselves.

What would you expect them to do?

You have a point. After several generations,it's all they know and most are scared to leave the "comforting womb" of the Reservation.

Just like we have multiple generations of blacks that are afraid to leave the "comforting womb" of Social Services. A Reservation is a reservation,and nothing more than a polite way to say "Government Pet Reserve for those too stupid and lazy to take care of themselves.

What would you expect them to do?

You have a point. After several generations,it's all they know and most are scared to leave the "comforting womb" of the Reservation.

Just like we have multiple generations of blacks that are afraid to leave the "comforting womb" of Social Services.

Indians have never asked to join white peoples rat race, neither did blacks.

All others came out of their own free will. So perhaps Indians and Negroes do not want to fit.

If you get away from Moscow and St.Petersburg there are still obvious traces of the Mongol invasion when looking at the faces of the locals.

It is more complex. Ancestors of Russians and others lived there for many thousands years and there was always mixing of numerous different tribes. There is a genetic gradient east/west and north/south/.

It did not start with Mongols, there were Huns, Scythians, Avars, Khazars, Bulgars, Slavs, Goths, Sarmatians, Hungarians,Fins etc before.

Eurasian steppes and forests were vortex of chaos for millennia until all those tribes congealed in one community as Russians.

That is why Russia gets stronger and grows when well organized enemy with a plan invades her. At first she returns to primordial chaos and bounce back bigger.

: A Pole (#19) ---- What would you expect them to do?

You have a point. After several generations,it's all they know and most are scared to leave the "comforting womb" of the Reservation. --- sneakypete

The Sioux could use their reservations like the Blackfeet and the Crow, for instance. -- But they don't, and won't..

All around most Indian reservations, american citizens use the same land and prosper, as do a few tribes and individual Indians. -- I guess, like Pete commented, the "comforting womb" is just too easy.

I drove through Standing Rock a couple of years ago, and stopped for coffee at their casino.. --- Truely pitiful non-answer to their problems..

Indians have never asked to join white peoples rat race, neither did blacks.

My grandmother is dead,but I feel safe in saying she never received an invitation other than my grandfather's marriage proposal. There are many,MANY American Indians living full lives as normal American citizens. It's mostly the drunks,druggies,and the eternally lazy losers that stay on the reservation and become "Professional Indians|.

It did not start with Mongols, there were Huns, Scythians, Avars, Khazars, Bulgars, Slavs, Goths, Sarmatians, Hungarians,Fins etc before.

How many of them were Asian?

Easy solution - give them their land back and they will be glorious rich that you worship.

WHAT land? Indians didn't own land. They didn't even understand the concept. They had "territories" that IN GENERAL belonged to the tribe because they were powerful enough to control that area by killing any outsiders that came in,but no individual Indian owned much of anything.