You will never see an authentic Biblical record more recent than 1000 BCE.

Why?

Because there aren't any. The Jews acquired their writing skills by the Babylonians...

Moses lived in the 1400s BC.

Are you claiming any events that occurred BEFORE 1400-1000 BC and been documented/validated by Moses (yes, like Genesis) and the Prophets CAN'T be true or factual?

The coincidence in time of the Babylonian influence over the Hebrews is remarkable with respect to Carbon dating of the Dead Sea Scrolls!

You should perform some independent research, yourself besides listening to, "HELL FIRE & BRIMSTONE" sermons.

Again, what is your primary contention here?

To invalidate ANY Scripture or non-Hebrew-Jewish history and accounts that pre-dated Babylonian documentation?

Moses lived in the 1400s BC.

Are you claiming any events that occurred BEFORE 1400-1000 BC and been documented/validated by Moses (yes, like Genesis) and the Prophets CAN'T be true or factual?

Yes, i know. I think there were written records before that ( too conservative says they were all verbal). I can't show evidence of the written records, though.

It's pretty obvious they [Hebrews/Jews] did [learn ANOTHER or different language and written history.]

Absolutely.

Bucky is in Strawman-Mode today.

Moses lived in the 1400s BC.

According to the Old Testament, he lived for what ... one thousand years? That is quite a lifespan, don't you think? But with a range of one thousand years, why have you limited him to just 1400 BCE?

Yes, i know. I think there were written records before that ( too conservative says they were all verbal).

Facts, figures, places, people, dates, events -- ALL validated. Whether CNN or the Babylonians were there to record it.

Some folks also forget that Moses consulted with The Almighty directly. But again, TC might dismiss that as a source for Moses' Ten Commandments tablet and Genesis because rumor has it that Christiane Amanpour or a New York Times reporterette wasn't standing there to interview Moses at the base of Mt Sinai.

I think there were written records before that ( too conservative says they were all verbal). I can't show evidence of the written records, though.

As I said a few posts ago on this thread, you nor anyone will ever find earlier records than 1000 BCE; even then I give allowance for error. The first records are coincident in time based on the Babylonians educating the Hebrews about methods of communications beyond just simple verbiage. The time domain is about 500 BCE for the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Why can't you find any? Because there aren't any. The Hebrews were uneducated goat herders except for the invasions by Syria and Mesopotamia, wherein the Hebrews fought tooth and nail for their very own sand.

[Moses] lived for what ... one thousand years? That is quite a lifespan, don't you think?

But with a range of one thousand years, why have you limited him to just 1400 BCE?

Not nearly one thousand years (According to Deuteronomy 34:7, Moses died at age 120 -- still pretty long, eh?), but yes, the ancients did exceed our current life span by quite a bit. Hundreds of years. Especially Pre-Flood man.

Scripture tells us Moses was 40 when as an Eygptian struck the slave: (Acts 7:22-29)...

According to Exodus 7:7, Moses was 80 years old when he made his demands to Pharaoh.

Quite a resume, don't you think?

The Pre-Flood people as well as ALL life on earth -- possessed DNA that evaded eventual damage of the post-Flood planet when all life got smaller, weaker, and died much sooner. Many species as you well know went extinct.

According to Genesis, man routinely live to between 400-900 years. We can tell by the fossil record and bones embedded within the rock strata that very LARGE and different flora and fauna were completely wiped out, became extinct during the world wide cataclysim or the Ice Age, never to return after the Great Flood.

But with a range of one thousand years, why have you limited him to just 1400 BCE?

That's the approximate documented date at which Moses writings are said to have been transcribed.

I think he has been watching the History Channel too much.

That's one reason I NEVER watch those PBS or "History" Channel shows.

It should be called, The Historical Revisionism Channel.

They run these programs under the guise of "history" in order to bait and mislead the confused, the ignorant, or the ill-informed. It's pure political propaganda, lies, half-truths, and revisionism from both PBS or the History Channel. With respect to any subject -- "Science," The Civil War," especially ANY THING "Biblical," you're bound to mutter to yourself, "BS!" or "CHYEAH, RIGHT."

Take Joseph and Sarah as an example. Sarah gave birth to a baby @90 years old!

Do you believe that?

The contents of the Old Testament are largely fictional about anyone's longevity. Why? These folks lived a difficult life (day to day struggle actually) with little nourishing food or adequate health care.

Are you referring to the Pre-Flood days? Or the post-Flood from Abraham till Moses... and beyond?

There are at least three different eras to reference. The Planet was far different Pre-Flood.

So of course they placed their trust in a God, or hope in a God or faith from day to day in a God. Thy had little recourse but to make up faerie tales of all sorts about themselves or the world around themselves.

Your lens is seeing things and people through recent eyes and logic. I get it. But you need to examine history fat more than a cursory look that you give it.

The more and closer you examine things, the more fascinating and logical it all becomes. You might surprise yourself.

Take Joseph and Sarah as an example. Sarah gave birth to a baby @90 years old!

Do you believe that?

You mean Abraham and Sarah?

Yes, of course.

In your defense even Sarah doubt God's promise to give birth at her age. considering it through contemporary eyes -- of course its impossible.

One factor to consider -- the genetics and DNA at Abraham/Sarah's time wasn't quite as damaged as it would eventually become.

Here is a fascinating Chart that illustrates the Great Flood's affect on an increasingly reduce age-span on various Biblical Patriarchs as the quality of genetics devolve over generations.

There are further notes on aging below:

In his book about the history of the Jews, the first century historian Josephus stated the following regarding the advanced ages of the pre-flood patriarchs.

"But let no one, upon comparing the lives of the ancients with our lives, and with the few years which we now live, think that what we have said of them is false . . . " (Antiquities (History) of the Jews, Book 1, Chapter 3).

Josephus also states that the reason for the very long lifespans of the pre-flood people was that God decided to be merciful to them and that the food they ate was much better for their bodies than the food eaten post-deluge. The average life span before the flood (ten generations) was 857 years.  After the flood, however, the average life span (for the ten generations from Shem to Abraham) was only 317 years!  In 2008, the average life expectancy of a person living in the United States was 78 years.

Did you know about the Patriarchs . . . ?

The word Patriarch is applied in the New Testament to Abraham (Hebrews 7:4), to the sons of Jacob (Acts 7:8 - 9), and to David (Acts 2:29).

Adam lived long enough to see EIGHT generations of his family born! Adam died when his great, great, great, great, great, great grandson Lamech was 46 years old!

The Biblical patriarch Abraham had eight children through three women. Abraham's son Isaac lived 180 years, longer than he did (175 years) or Isaac's son Jacob (147 years).

Abraham's wife Sarah holds the distinction of being the ONLY woman in the entire Bible where her age at death is recorded.

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/large-chart-life-span-patriarchs-from-adam-to-noah.html

I see it as a inane quarrel between liberal dumb high school teachers from New York or San Francisco with snake handling hillbillies. Neither of them has a clue what they are talking about.

To understand what is the real meaning of a scientific theory one needs to spend a few years in the research in a quality school or institution.

In the religious aspect both "Creationist" and "Evolutionists" are right, in scientific aspect many of them know as much as 5th generation city dwellers about farming.

Are you referring to the Pre-Flood days? Or the post-Flood from Abraham till Moses... and beyond?

All contained in "Genesis." And to answer your question, yes, and beyond.

What was the day to day life of People all about during those times when there wasn't any free food or health care or mass production of a plentiful bounty as in contemporary times? Miracles handed down by God? In a sense, yes as these faerie tales gave hope to those dealing with the day to day struggle of life.

Of course, they believed in a God. Why? To promote their lives as there was no other way for "hope" in the future. There is nothing more important to men and woman to believe in something, often anything, when challenged under forces of great oppression whether man-made or any other natural causes.

The story of Ireland in the 1800s is apropos here, during the Great Potatoe Famine. They lost everything with Great Britain ignoring the plight. And, all of a sudden, Leprechauns sprung up with Pots o' Gold!

Do you think the issues of day to day living was confined to just the Hebrews creating myths over 2500 years ago?

Just to make it clear. I get a little tired tutoring contrary, overgrown and disorderly students, without being paid.

You either forgot your sarcasm tag, or are delusional. You're posting to Liberty's Flame, NOT to your empty cyber-"classroom" down your basement or at the pub in between darts.

Let's make THIS clear; To be considered a "tutor," one must be hired. You would have to pay ME to instruct YOU.

Secondly, the source of "quality school or institution" is relative to the beholder or behold-ee. Stuff that Cert or Diploma from Commie U.

THEN, he/she/it must be teaching subject matter based on legit, relevant FACTS and KNOWLEDGE based on legit qualifications from a legit authority or source. (A Bible will do in this case.)

(Btw, WHAT are you supposed to be lecturing, and to WHOM?)

Are you insisting that Author: Fr. Lawrence Farley in his cop-out essay is the be all, end all answer to the question, "Evolution or Creation Science?"

The oldest fragment we have of Hebrew scripture is the Nash Papyrus. It dates to around 100 BC to 150 BC, or so we're told.

Twenty four lines long, with a few letters missing at each edge, the papyrus contains the Ten Commandments in Hebrew, a short middle text, followed by the start of the Shema Yisrael prayer. The text of the Ten Commandments combines parts of the version from Exodus 20:2-17 with parts from Deuteronomy 5:6-21. A curiosity is its omission of the phrase "house of bondage", used in both versions, about Egypt — perhaps a reflection of where the papyrus was composed. Some (but not all) of the papyrus' substitutions from Deuteronomy are also found in the version of Exodus in the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Pentateuch from the 3rd-2nd centuries BC, made in Alexandria. The Septuagint also interpolates before Deuteronomy 6:4 the preamble to the Shema found in the papyrus, and the Septuagint also agrees with a couple of the other variant readings where the papyrus departs from the standard Hebrew Masoretic text. The ordering of the later commandments in the papyrus (Adultery-Murder-Steal, rather than Murder-Adultery-Steal) is also that found in most texts of the Septuagint. The papyrus preamble before Shema Yisrael, also found in the Septuagint, is taken from Deuteronomy Ch. 4:45 which is the only time the recurring formula “This is the commandment(s) and rules and teachings...” mentions the Exodus from Egypt. The Nash preamble correctly cites Moses as the speaker rather than God as in the Septuagint. The insertion of Deuteronomy Ch.4:45 before Shema Ysrael in the papyrus and especially the Septuagint, which has two preambles in the same section: Ch. 6:1 and the interpolation to Ch. 6:3, was probably done to distance the central Shema Yisrael prayer from it context: sections dealing with the entry to the Promised Land of Canaan. According to the Talmud it was once customary to read the Ten Commandments before saying the Shema. As Burkitt put it, "it is therefore reasonable to conjecture that this Papyrus contains the daily worship of a pious Egyptian Jew, who lived before the custom came to an end".[2] It is thus believed that the papyrus probably consisted of a liturgical document, specifically the constituents of a Phylactery,[1] which may have purposely synthesised the two versions of the Commandments, rather than directly from Scripture. However, the papyrus' similarities with the Septuagint, support a possibility that a Hebrew text of the Pentateuch was in circulation in Egypt in the 2nd century BC, and served both the Nash papyrus and the Septuagint translation as source, but which differs significantly from the modern Jewish Masoretic Text.

So the Nash papyrus throws rocks at everyone's modern ideas about the era. It doesn't agree with the Masoretic text of the Torah (dating from 900 AD and the official Hebrew of Israel). It doesn't agree with the (offically unauthorized) Greek translation of the Torah called the Septuagint, circa 300 BC. And it mixes together phrasing of the Ten Commandments from both Exodus and Deuteronomy but differs from both of them.

Well, that's a fine mess. I included the long quote from Wiki to indicate the limits of what we know or can know at present about many manuscripts and tablets from this era. There was a lot of stuff floating around and, obviously, much of it was not officially approved translations. These text variant could be the result of being part of a mezuzah or a liturgical text, not an officially approved copy of the Torah (by Temple standards).

This is a good site by a Jewish scholar of high standing in Israel on these ancient texts.

TheTorah.com: The Oldest Known Copy Of The Decalogue

If we want to look for older examples of what we call Hebrew, there are just a few. The oldest is dated to around 1000 BC and is a pottery fragment.

One thing that is pretty annoying with this stuff is the wide variety of names given to these ancient dialects. Here's some that I can recall: proto-Hebrew, paleo-Hebrew, Old Hebrew, proto-Canaanite, proto-Samaritan, proto-Masoretic, proto-Phoenician, Early Alphabetic and at least as many others I can't recall or never heard of. Quite often, the type of alphabet used and the style of writing (elongated traditional type or the little square Babylonian text type) indicates what flavor of proto-whatever it is considered to be or the spellings of individual words indicate their dating and relation to other ancient texts. This is a technical area that only the experts understand at all. And they constantly argue over all their research and results.

Wiki: Khirbet Qeiyafa inscription

Dating to 1000 BC, this is a faded portion of text on a clay tablet. It is in the most ancient known Judaean city.

BiblicalArchaeology.org: Qeiyafa Ostracon Relates the Birth of the Kingdom of Israel

    Do not oppress, and serve God…despoiled him/her
    The judge and the widow wept; he had the power
    Over the resident alien and the child, he eliminated them together
    The men and chiefs/officers have established a king
    He marked 60 [?] servants among the communities/habitations/generation.

Just to make it clear. I get a little tired tutoring contrary, overgrown and disorderly students, without being paid.

I hadn't even noticed that you were tutoring us. So I don't know why you think anyone would pay you. You've really posted very little since you started this thread. We've somehow managed to keep it going despite your lack of interest.

Let's make THIS clear; To be considered a "tutor," one must be hired. You would have to pay ME to instruct YOU.

To get paid by A Pole, you probably have to submit an itemized bill of services rendered.

What was the day to day life of People all about during those times when there wasn't any free food or health care or mass production of a plentiful bounty as in contemporary times? Miracles handed down by God?

Life and finding sustenance was probably much easier before the Great Flood.

Afterward, likely a best a challenge; at worst a struggle, but do-able. We ALL struggle to certain degrees.

As to "Miracles," yes, some have received them and still do. (Don't ask me how God adjudicates this, but yes prayer is involved.)

In a sense, yes as these faerie tales gave hope to those dealing with the day to day struggle of life.

Ok, I get it.

Look -- no one is forcing their view and beliefs. Yes, someone like me will share my faith (and it IS faith, but yes, a faith in God and His promises that must be fed like any plant or person.) People of faith also struggle, sometimes mightily. Very few don't.

The very same consumption of the Word and Promises from God has been passed down for thousand of years, BEFORE the written word as you'd noted could only be the case. Oral traditional handed down generation by generation helped inspire all people. Without the circuses, distractions and narcissism of modern man.

Ever read Proverbs? (Wisdom) Ecclesiastes? (reminder that life without God is mostly fulfilling and empty) Psalms? (Praise AND complaints to God) Song of Solomon? (In praise of married love)

Best "Self-Help" books in wisdom and advice on living ever written.

Buck, it's all there for the taking. All the answers you'll ever need. All you have to do is ask God to help you turn just the first page.

This Mortal Coil/Bio-Shell has an Expiration Date as you know. Yes, we all struggle. This is the thing -- we are all ultimately responsible for the destination of our respective soul. It survives our bio-shell/flesh.

Q: Would you rather live every one of your days and 90 years on this earth as an absolute and joyous King? But at the same time...being unsure of your Final Destination? (perhaps passing on to a dark or silent Eternity)...

OR...

Q2: Endure both good and bad times during your time here on earth; Struggle in many ways. BUT...invest in the key to a life beyond our bio-shell, and KNOW your reservation for Eternity is set and will be bathed in light and love.

Only you control your own steering wheel, direction and place you wind up. Once it's over IT'S OVER.

One has to be flabbergasted that so much ancient scriptural text has and had been preserved -- enough so to survive throughout the centuries of war, climate, confiscation, and...TIME.

Talk about miracles.

If God has NOT wanted what *was* preserved preserved it simply would not.

The excavators at Khirbet Qeiyafa identify the site with Biblical Shaarayim. After David slays Goliath, the Israelites pursue the Philistines “on the way to Shaarayim” (1 Samuel 17:52). According to the Bible, Shaarayim must have existed during Saul’s reign, and finds from Khirbet Qeiyafa corroborate the chronology.

Gerard Leval writes “for Puech, the text announces the installation of a centralized royal administration and it makes this announcement to a distant frontier province. He concedes that it is difficult to establish with certainty whether the new royal administration is that of Saul or David… ...

If Puech is correct, the Qeiyafa Ostracon is the only known artifact to reference the first king of the Kingdom of Israel...

So that is a nice little sample of what we know about the oldest examples of Hebrew and OT scripture. And it indicates how tentative our knowledge is. It is clear that we cannot draw strong conclusions from such evidence. The entire field of higher textual criticism in ancient texts has this problem. A lot of it is just highly educated guesswork, a working explanation until someone digs up something more comprehensive.

That's a trip. Imagine the rush for a biblical archaeologist of discovering this? Then translating the text?

At this point, I'm not sure if further survival of newly found text even matters. From an archaeological point, anything more is just a bonus.

Related to that, my speculation about the giant skeleton findings is that they are being hidden because there are those who may fear having to explain them as well as tangents that just won't increase faith, but instead undermine it.

Sufficient OT and NT texts survived -- more than enough to understand OT underpinnings of history and wisdom, the Patriarchs, more than enough to understand a continuum in the NT, the Gospels as written -- along with Romans and Revelation etc.

New discoveries are always exciting. IF real and not a hoax -- which is what I would fear.

I hadn't even noticed that you were tutoring us. So I don't know why you think anyone would pay you. You've really posted very little since you started this thread. We've somehow managed to keep it going despite your lack of interest.

Heh...

Which is why I'd assumed that maybe he just forgot a sarcasm tag...OR, maybe WE don't grasp his sense of humor.

He's like the server who brings the mints and check, and claims credit for preparing the meal.

Ok Pole -- you got us!

To get paid by A Pole, you probably have to submit an itemized bill of services rendered.

I'd like to see HIS invoice...

So basically you are saying is that you are not a real American and the Declaration of Independence was a load of shit.

I have told you before that I am a Deist, assuming you understand. I am probably closer to the founders of the USA than you will ever be.

Let me put it bluntly: the creator left everything to human folly after the Beginning of time. He doesn't meddle at all and there is no indication that he ever will.

Then translating the text?

At this point, I'm not sure if further survival of newly found text even matters. From an archaeological point, anything more is just a bonus.

You need to understand that ancient manuscripts undergo intense processes for deciphering far beyond a slap on the back based on a chit-chat channel. I is through "codecs" which are used to maintain a method of consistent interpretation of the manuscripts which are often small pieces or fragments of documents.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are some of the best interpreted documents ever found and lead to some of the more advanced "codecs" which have been used for other documents.

We have no church in the natural world around ourselves other than what our senses transmit to our reason which is tempered by education. It is self evident. Don't you rely on your own senses to determine your own reason for survival? Or do you go to a church and beg to be forgiven because you feel powerless about your own circumstances whether real or imagined?

There's a lot to consider about survival and I have yet to see anyone SURVIVE based on someone's prayers or belief in a Holy Book.

It reminded me a lot of something Mel Brooks did in a movie. Just slapstick comedy.

Yes, quite like a Mel Brooks nonsense comedy. Funnier than hell and some well deserved jabs at the church.

Of course, those with a stick up there ass will miss all that.

There's a lot to consider about survival and I have yet to see anyone SURVIVE based on someone's prayers or belief in a Holy Book.

Well you couldn't see George Washington but you obviously think he was a liar.

Why do you say I am a liar?

Deists were not liars or not now.

There is an important separation of any religious doctrine from everyday experience that Deist's often choose. As an example: are you aware that Thomas Jefferson created the Jefferson Bible? Are you aware that George Washington created the first national day of "Thanksgiving" not for some ceremonial issue to eat a turkey and some savory goodies on the side but to ensure that REVOLUTIONS don't occur again?

Just a few, of course. As I write, I wonder about your understanding of Thomas Paine's, "Common Sense"? Have you ever read any of these documents? Have you ever looked for any outside material beyond your Sunday School Pulpit of HELLFIRE & DAMNATION?

I am just asking, of course.

((I have told you before that I am a Deist, assuming you understand. I am probably closer to the founders of the USA than you will ever be.))

Deism was far different at that time, than what we see today. As an example, they beloved the Lord controlled nature. Today Deism is similar to atheism.

I suggest otherwise and always have. There is a creator. He is unknowable and immediately following the creation of TIME, the creator has never intervened in anything, especially in human affairs.

((I suggest otherwise and always have. There is a creator. He is unknowable and immediately following the creation of TIME, the creator has never intervened in anything, especially in human affairs.))

And YOUR evidence for an unknowable God is what?

And YOUR evidence for an unknowable God is what?

Actually you have my perspective back-asswards. I say organized religions are contemptuous instruments towards mankind, no matter their affiliation.

And YOUR evidence for an unknowable God is what?

You can't find any other than through our senses an being planted here to include the creator's intervention in any human endeavour through thousands of years of human history beyond hearsay, innuendo, gossip and hand-me-down information from dogmatic approaches of mesmerizing mind control.

I recall pinging you recently to red's thread on that first-century fragment of Mark a month or so back but Vic kinda hijacked that one into weird topics. Supposedly, we may finally see a final assessment of the fragment from mummy wrappings this year. I hope so.

The Progressives within academia, politics, and the left-leaning media are concerned that religious ideas may receive too much attention or acceptance within the general culture.

This is an age old issue between those of a establishment culture and those espousing religious doctrine. Both are dogmatic and unprincipled to the core. Their diametrically opposed goals are conflict for some sort of "upsmanship" value beyond mere survival where most of us are positioned in life.

As William F. Buckley said "...what we're up against, and though the Academy and the judiciary, is a felt disappointment that the American Revolution was not the French Revolution, and a consequent attempt to Jacobinize the Constitution into religion and its influence are wholly vanished from our public life." This attempt to marginalize religion, or even exclude it from the public sphere is an unstated recognition that religious ideology has profound influence on the minds of people, ideas that might run counter to contemporary Progressive elitism. William F. Buckley

There are some understatements in Buckley's quote. For me and those around me, I want no part of a government that is controlled by religious or any other institutions; this includes a political party called the GOP/DEM Party. The continuous and unnecessary circus act reveals an inefficient and certainly an ineffective system.

Deism was far different at that time, than what we see today. As an example, they [believed] the Lord controlled nature.

Today Deism is similar to atheism.

Pretty spot-on on both counts.

Although I would also add that today's "Deist" appears to straddle the fence more as more "Agnostic."

You just don't seem to understand that organized religions are full of silly traditions and impractical ideas and ideals that do not respect or understand TRUTH about the world around us.

Now hold on thar, Baba-Looey...

You've leaped into a few fires here.

1) The crux of Christianity -- a simple belief in the Gospel of Jesus Christ -- requires NO "organized religion."

2) Without "Ideals" you have NO basis of morality or standard of "Good" vs Evil." Are you saying YOU possess no "ideals"?

3) As Pilate asked Jesus Christ, I'd ask you: "What is THE 'Truth'"?)

If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter.

If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true , but rather because of a series of chemical reactions… …

Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before.

If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality.

If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else.

Excellent examples that demonstrate Purpose and Reason of a personal Creator-God vs. Random Chance of a Chemical-Reaction "god".

I do not believe however that Buck has committed to an "Atheism." He's just anti-organize religion, which admittedly has NOT helped many develop their faith.

It's good to "see" you.

The oldest fragment we have of Hebrew scripture is the Nash Papyrus. It dates to around 100 BC to 150 BC, or so we're told.

Oldest before Qumran discoveries. The article even says that. There's no telling if Nash is a Torah fragment or a teaching document as commanded in Deuteronomy 6:8. Nash could just be that a Torah teaching document like we see in the deutercanonical works like Ben Sira.

What's interesting is we still don't have the Qumran discoveries fully analyzed and examined.

I'm currently in a discussion on another site on the book of Daniel which Qumran caves 1-4 sheds a bit more light on:

DSS shed new light

What's interesting is the discovery provides evidence Daniel was in fact considered canonical in the 2nd century BC. It also provides evidence of wider circulation which evokes a call for an earlier date of the autograph than what 19th and 20th century scholars previously determined.

Lastly the Qumran Daniel fragments follow the later Masoretic Text (MT) and does not contain the apocryphal chapters seen in the Greek.