because I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace, and they’re going to have to want to make peace, too,

I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all, except possibly on the condition that the Palestinians officially accept their second rate status. Israel will not accept a 2 state solution even if it means peace, though I'd love to be proven wrong.

Of course Israel will claim they do want peace. If Trump were to make the same ultimatum to Israel it would be interesting to see the reaction. Maybe a 2 state solution OR no more money type deal. AIPAC would go anti-trump in an instant.

Chamber of Commerce is, by itself, probably more powerful than the 4 I listed combined. And a half-dozen more. CoC is very powerful. In many ways, they are the primary muck in the Beltway swamp.

I found it interesting that Trump just happened to launch this threat to defund the Palis, had Haley reinforce it by telling off Abbas to his face, and all just as he arrived at Davos. Imagine their faces! LOL

I saw Times of Israel also reported that France's new prez, Macron, had said he will not recognize Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital but he otherwise will stick with the EU idea that Jerusalem should be a capital for both states in a two-state solution. It's not unthinkable, every peace plan has always had this concept in it.

A handful of small EU countries like Slovenia had been trying to agitate for EU countries to recognize Palestine as a state and its capital as Jerusalem, in effect granting Palestine the status of a nation. That would be a prelude to demanding that Palestine be given a seat at the U.N. So France won't be a part of that. And they do still hold a veto on the Security Council.

With any luck at all,that old asshole Jim-Mah Cawtur will stroke out.

Or former Dem Senate majority leader, George Mitchell. Did you know he has made a full-time job out of being a peace envoy to Israel and the Palis since he left the Senate about 20 years ago?

Or Lurch, who tried and failed several times to broker a peace deal with Israel. I saw he was making noises the last few days that he might run in 2020. If only.

I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all, except possibly on the condition that the Palestinians officially accept their second rate status.

This is not enough. They need to disapear or die.

Or former Dem Senate majority leader, George Mitchell. Did you know he has made a full-time job out of being a peace envoy to Israel and the Palis since he left the Senate about 20 years ago?

No,but it's no real surprise. He is a whore for anyone that will pay him,selling influence.

If Trump were to make the same ultimatum to Israel

because I can tell you that Israel does want to make peace, and they’re going to have to want to make peace, too,

But he did just make the same ultimatum, end the argy bargy or we are out of here

This Trump is so boorish. I wish we had a well-spoken chubby-faced College Boy like Marco who would talk tough for conservative crowds and then pursue the perpetual pay-off-the-Palestinians plan that the Establishment prefers.

For what it is worth, my dead dawg scruffy would have performed a much better job than Donald Trump. As an example, instead of spreading enmity with the Palestinians and favoring the Israelis, scruffy would be in the backyard of the WH burying a dawg bone.

See how the peace process would be infinitely more effective? Yes, scruffy would be worrying about the good ol' USA!

Cut off...that's the way.

In the eighteen hundreds a jewish fellow by the name of Hertzl in Russia made the suggestion that Jews should return to their traditional lands in Israel, which they began doing. In the 1920s they constituted 15% of the population of Israel. They then declared the other 85% of the population to be outsiders with British approval. This pissed the palistinians off. They are still pissed.

I don't have a horse in this race. I can understand why the Palistinians are pissed. I don't happen to like the Palis. I am not happy about Jewish arrogance.

Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years.

The historical record shows that couldn't be true. And I doubt the area was ever abandoned as is seems some imply when (many) Jews either left or were exiled from the region. I mean, what's the point of exiling a people from a certain territory if those ordering the exile planned to exile themselves from it as well?

It's just not realistic to think of any culture keeping such a solid line between their lineages and the lineages of other cultures, especially if, when looting cities, enough rapes occurred to create half Jewish offspring. As I compose this, it occurs to me that perhaps the reason for the rule about how any child of a Jewish woman (but not a Jewish man) is also Jewish is because it would, in times of antiquity, conveniently exclude the offspring of any Jewish men who would rape gentile women while pillaging gentile cities, or for that matter, even if they were not pillaging.

In any event, the Greeks conquered the area, followed by the Romans. Muslims later conquered the area, and Wikipedia claims many Jews essentially became Arabs, some even adopting Islam. That is believable as it's pretty much the norm worldwide when any people is conquered by another, including Japan after WW2. But the Crusades followed and so on and so forth.

Rest assured, if the place was devoid of people, there wouldn't be much in the way of conquering required. People have been there for many thousands of years. And for me it's easy to speculate that the people native to the area over the millennia quite likely are at least in part, the descendants of ancient Israel. While some some left or were exiled, it was likely only a portion of them.

So it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the Palestinians and others throughout the region might, to some degree, have ancient Jewish blood in them.

Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years.

The historical record shows that couldn't be true.

You just made my point in an attempt to deny it.

I said Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years. You attempt to refute it by giving a list of people who passed through but were unable or disinterestd in hanging on to it for any period. It belonged to nobody but the wind. Is that so hard to understand?

Palestine was nobody's land over thousands of years. ... The rest is mostly mythology.

Another sign from God that this land was kept in reserve for the Jews.

In the middle of densely populated Near East, empty space waiting for the rightful owners.

I am going to post a book review "The Birth of Israel: Myths And Realities"

So it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the Palestinians and others throughout the region might, to some degree, have ancient Jewish blood in them.

"The closest genetic relatives of the Middle Eastern Jews are Druze, Bedouin and Palestinians."

https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots-1.5411201

For what it is worth, my dead dawg scruffy would have performed a much better job than Donald Trump. As an example, instead of spreading enmity with the Palestinians and favoring the Israelis, scruffy would be in the backyard of the WH burying a dawg bone.

No doubt, Scruffy was the man for the job.

But it is still pretty hard to elect a corpse. People just aren't ready for an undead doggie pres'nent.

Trump knows money talks. They were getting free dollars to continue to support terrorism.

I like how Trump laid this steaming turd right in the laps of the Davos elite, just as he was ready to arrive there to hobnob with his fellow-wizards.

That's a total hoot. No doubt he's given the diplos a case of the vapors.

I don't have a horse in this race. I can understand why the Palistinians are pissed. I don't happen to like the Palis. I am not happy about Jewish arrogance.

Regardless of the history, a bunch of Holocaust survivor families are in Israel and they and their military and their nukes say they're not going anywhere, ever.

So the Palis need to get the best deal they can so their young people can aspire to more than just blowing up a bus of Yid schoolkids. That's just how it is.

So it's not much of a stretch to suggest that the Palestinians and others throughout the region might, to some degree, have ancient Jewish blood in them.

Not all that much. The Jews have been pretty big on studies of mitochondrial DNA. However, these studies have left little doubt about modern European Jews having a very distinct common group of Semitic ancestors from the Mideast region.

"...I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all..."

Peace means the end of the nearly $4 Thousand-Million US tax dollars per year...

and you're "not convinced"??

This entire charade is about the money.

IMHO

" Palestinians officially accept their second rate status. "

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that they have full Israeli citizenship, with full rights, even voting rights.

That does not sound like second rate status.

You are a card carrying Jew hater, and you have demonstrated that many times.

You would have been dancing around like Bojangles while Jew kids were burned alive in concentration camp ovens.

The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists being used by Arabs as an excuse to conduct terror acts against Jews.

Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to.

" The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists being used by Arabs as an excuse to conduct terror acts against Jews.

Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to. "

The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists / trouble makers. They have been kicked out of all Arab countries, no one wants them, because all they do is cause trouble, and contribute nothing positive.

I seem to remember reading elsewhere that they have full Israeli citizenship, with full rights, even voting rights.

Some do, like the longterm Druze residents. And they are subject to compulsory military service as well, both sexes.

That isn't true of the Palis.

I get it.

You are a card carrying Jew hater, and you have demonstrated that many times.

Oh, I have, have I?

This makes twice in one week where you have completely mischaracterized me. But it is noteworthy that you would respond this way to me and not respond to another on this thread who stated plainly that Palestinians should just disappear or die, which certainly sounds like a card carrying Palestinian hater to me. But I suppose in your world that just doesn't deserve any condemnation, right?

Of course not.

You would have been dancing around like Bojangles while Jew kids were burned alive in concentration camp ovens.

I don't suppose you have have any references supporting this accusation, do you?

The so-called Palestinians are just Arab terrorists being used by Arabs as an excuse to conduct terror acts against Jews.

Ergo, all of them should just be exterminated. Roasted alive in ovens, perhaps?

Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to.

And there you have it. Proof they are subhuman and should just be wiped off the map.

They have been kicked out of all Arab countries, no one wants them, because all they do is cause trouble, and contribute nothing positive.

Prior to WWII, some said similar things of Jews.

That does not sound like second rate status.

They are plainly discriminated against in all manner of ways. Bulldozed homes, illegal settlements, border crossings, destroyed orchards and farms and so forth Even when Isralies kill Palestinians and are prosecuted, they typically get the absolute minimal punishment that is politically palatable.

Any Arab country has plenty of money to fully take care of these people, but of course they don't want to.

And there you have it. Proof they are subhuman and should just be wiped off the map.

I've seen your responses on many web sites. It is obvious you prefer Arabs to Jews.

Boy given the quoted remark above, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion. Since you love Palestinian terrorists so much, go live there and give your money to them. Tell them how they are mistreated by the Jews. I'm sure they will treat you with love and admiration.

They are plainly discriminated against in all manner of ways.

Yeah, and those damn Jews want to take away their bombs and rocket launchers, and protect themselves by building walls.

I've seen your responses on many web sites. It is obvious you prefer Arabs to Jews.

Seeing comments from me is not the issue. Comprehending them is. You are pulling a borderline Gatlin.

Boy given the quoted remark above, I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion.

That does not surprise me.

Since you love Palestinian terrorists so much, go live there and give your money to them. Tell them how they are mistreated by the Jews. I'm sure they will treat you with love and admiration.

Well, there's a blockade instituted by Israel making life miserable so I wouldn't be very happy with that. They're not even allowed concrete at last count, as they might use some of it to build defensive structures. But why don't you lead by example and pack your things and move to Israel? You can prove your love of Israeli Jews this very same way.

illegal settlement

No such thing. That is UN tyranny talk. The solution is for all the Palis and Arabs to get their sorry asses out of Israel.

Yeah, and those damn Jews want to take away their bombs and rocket launchers, and protect themselves by building walls.

The noive!

Comprehending you is not a problem at all.

Well, there's a blockade instituted by Israel making life miserable so I wouldn't be very happy with that.

Uh Huh. That has to be the reason. The go live in Dubai. Convince them about supporting Palestinians.

" Yeah, and those damn Jews want to take away their bombs and rocket launchers, and protect themselves by building walls. "

How inconsiderate of the Jews. I guess to make the Palis & their ass kissers happy, the Jews should all just commit mass suicide.

You are a card carrying Jew hater, and you have demonstrated that many times.

You would have been dancing around like Bojangles while Jew kids were burned alive in concentration camp ovens.

That really is pretty harsh. I've never seen him say anything like that.

So I guess I don't worry about being harsh.

That really is pretty harsh. I've never seen him say anything like that.

References would be in order for sure. Coming up with them would certainly keep him busy for a pleasantly long time.

Thank you, by the way.

All I have ever seen him do is support every bogus grievance against the Jews, especially Israel.

You know, I was at the store yesterday and when I wasn't thinking about what I needed to buy, my mind wandered to this accusation, and it occurred to me that maybe it was my speculation that the rule for inherited jewry was based on birth by a Jewish mother was because it allowed Jewish men to disregard responsibility for their extramarital activities with gentile women. Was that what set you off?

Rest assured, rules, particularly religious ones, have historically been made by us guys. Women have largely had no say in them, at least prior to 50 years ago and that bias certainly rears it's head.

In the case of Judaism, I fault it for advocating a racial or religious based supremecy: You know the "we're God's chosen people" line. Putin once warned us Americans about the dangers of any people considering themselves exceptional, that after Obama made the claim for us Americans. Putin was right, and the same principle applies to Jews. No people should consider themselves more privileged then the rest of the world, and it's especially dangerous when it's religiously based. In my opinion we can see that in the attitudes of many Israeli jews in regards to illegal settlements and the general treatment of not just Palestinians. (i.e God gave us this holy land so everyone here should get the hell off it or die). Essentially, the basic tenant of Judaism (and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that non-jews pretty much exist for the benefit of jews. It's actually not unlike how we as humans regard the existence of cattle, though of course not to that level.

Christian zionists obviously enable this type of thinking, and of course they largely agree with it, as Judaism is without dispute the father of Christianity.

But to be clear, I'm not just picking on Judaism. Islam has it's supremecy tenants also, though it's not ethnically based (perhaps one tiny consolation with that faith). Their problem is it sex-based. The whole 72 virgins bit. Women are basically chattel ... property of men, and at some point centuries ago, perhaps dating back to even Mohammed, the guys there decided that paradise must like a brothel. I suppose that was due to the limits of their imagination, or perhaps sex was the only thing that gave them any kind of respite from a life perhaps devoid of any other physical enjoyments. So with Islam, women pay the price and with Judaism, gentiles pay the price.

So assuming you are not simply confusing me with someone else who actually posts Jew-hating material (which maybe you are) it could be instead that I am simply open to criticizing Judaism just like I'll criticize any other faith or idea. Perhaps you, on the other hand, consider Jews to be God's Chosen People such that saying anything about them that does not cast them in a favorable light is automatically Jew hating or anti-semitic. If that's the case, then I'll leave the labeling in your little world to you.

I do have though at least one Jewish friend. I went to a bar mitzvah for his daughter many, many years ago, and I sat down for lunch with him a couple months back. He's a great guy. He loves people and he would have paid for my meal had I let him. Well he did, actually. I just insisted on paying the tip.

I don't know how you are going to sort all this out in your simple black n white world, but I guess you have some homework to do now, assuming you choose to do it.

Cheers....

In my opinion we can see that in the attitudes of many Israeli jews in regards to illegal settlements and the general treatment of not just Palestinians. (i.e God gave us this holy land so everyone here should get the hell off it or die). Essentially, the basic tenant of Judaism (and please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is that non-jews pretty much exist for the benefit of jews. It's actually not unlike how we as humans regard the existence of cattle, though of course not to that level.

I think you overstate or misinterpret this.

Jews, coming from such an ancient culture, do naturally consider Gentiles as transient peoples, always getting conquered, adrift in history. Naturally, they will seek their own advantage. And this is a characteristic of all the Semitic peoples. Arabs are certainly that way, just not as competently as Jews have become because of their considerable education and cultural diversity.

And modern Jews are simply not the Jews of yesteryear. In Israel, they still maintain a pretty consistent Jewish culture. But the larger majority of Jews scattered around the world (Europe, North and South America, etc.) no longer have that cultural solidarity. The rabbis have worried for years about the rates of intermarriage, about Jewish men marrying Gentile women (or vice versa), about all the issues involving intermarriage and children. And gay marriage has made it worse, with some wealthy Jews wanting their Jewish sons to marry their Catholic boyfriend and give them a few little adopted Chinese girls to play the role of granddaughter.

This is a long and increasingly bitter debate among the various denominations and endless organizations that Jews debate these issues in.

Judaism, especially in the Diaspora, just isn't nearly as Jewish as it used to be. Those old cultural norms have broken, perhaps irrevocably. And the rabbis and older generation can't get the younger generation to see it as anything important. Very upsetting to the traditionalists to consider that in 20 years, only 15%-20% of all Jews in the world will be married to a Jewish spouse. They also worry about producing enough children because they are well-below replacement rates (other than Orthodox Jews who have tons of kids). The Ashkenazim aren't exactly happy that the future of Judaism are the Orthodox Jews merely due to their prolific breeding.

These are not happy topics of discussion for Jewish leaders.

I'll repeat that BBC link from above. Look at what Bibi's brother-in-law is saying about the rumors that Bibi's son is dating a Norwegian Gentile.

BBC: The Jewish fear of intermarriage

Moderate & peaceful Muslims have to deal with accusations about how the Koran states that unbelievers must be executed. They accept the passages as real, of course but dismiss it as being either antiquated teaching or needing to be taken in proper context of the day. So it seems both peaceful Muslims and progressive Jews have that difficulty in common.

I remember Sally, AKA Goldi-lox of LP, a converted Jew, telling me on the phone once how Jews were not allowed ot charge fellow Jews interest on loans. If a white organization were to announce such a policy to fellow whites, it would certainly be a basis of serious accusation of white supremacy. But of course, you cannot accuse or ever suggest Judaism is a supremacist faith without risking being called an Jew hater or anti-semite, which, as you've seen, happened to me on this thread. Well, I guess my sin was in suggesting one Jewish tenant, however old it's origins may be, may have been formulated to excuse parental responsibility of Jewish men who have sex with gentile women.

Christians recognize that God loves everyone equally no matter their genes, origins or sins, but Judaism simply doesn't go along with that, at least as far as the old testament goes.

Deuteronomy 10:19 “Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.”

I remember Sally, AKA Goldi-lox of LP, a converted Jew, telling me on the phone once how Jews were not allowed ot charge fellow Jews interest on loans.

She never did convert. She flirted with it but didn't carry through.

So maybe a Gentile woman isn't the most reliable source of info.

And, yes, Jews do charge interest to other Jews.

I am not convinced Israel wants peace at all...

Huh??

All they've done is extend the olive branch while ceding land back to their perpetually hostile Muzzie tormentors after gaining it it two major wars (started of course BY Muzzie neighbors.)

Ping, you do understand the Koran's commandments with respect to Jews (I assume)?

Arafat was offered land, territory that would be considered a "Palestinian state" but rejected it. He took the money and the perpetual victimhood. Oh. And their "deal" is to occupy Israel. No compromise.

*It needs to be noted that there is no "Palestinian" people, nor "Palestinian" culture, history, or semblance of gubmint or official leader UNTIL the sliver-state of Israel was re-established in 1948 (btw, their share of sovereign land was originally promised to be far greater -- until the Brits decided to give the vast majority of territory to Muslim pan-Jordan.)

If Trump were to make the same ultimatum to Israel...

a) Trump, the US, the UN are in NO position to deliver any such ultimatum to any sovereign nation.

b) "Palestine" DOES. NOT. EXIST. Nor does its culture or ANY history.

AIPAC would go anti-trump in an instant.

I would concede that AIPAC does wield too much influence in America's affairs and self-interest.

I saw Times of Israel also reported that France's new prez, Macron, had said he will not recognize Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital but he otherwise will stick with the EU idea that Jerusalem should be a capital for both states in a two-state solution.

That's mighty WHITE of the Micro-Leader. And French. Maybe Trump out to move our French embassy to Marseilles. JUST BECAUSE.

I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years.

The EU "idea" of a bi-capital for an alleged "two-state solution" makes as much sense as the EU's suicidal importation/invitation of Muzzie invaders, looters, rapists, and terrorists.

The EU's agenda is a literal occultist, One-World dictatorship in any case. Much like the Democrat Party in the US, the EU/UN are focused on "Divide & Conquer" tactics, lies, and propaganda...

As of late, even the subversive Vatican has stepped out of the closet to support the occultist One-World Gubmint agenda.

I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years.

There have been many eras with widely varying Jewish population in Jerusalem and across the lands of ancient Israel.

It's a very long history.

A handful of small EU countries like Slovenia had been trying to agitate for EU countries to recognize Palestine as a state and its capital as Jerusalem, in effect granting Palestine the status of a nation. That would be a prelude to demanding that Palestine be given a seat at the U.N. So France won't be a part of that. And they do still hold a veto on the Security Council.

France NEVER warranted or deserved any UN VETO power to begin with...I know -- irrelevant to this debate.

As sister-EU leader to brother Germany (oh, the irony, huh?), behind the scenes the French PTB indeed support statehood for "Palestine"; They just won't publicly support it for a few reasons -- one, it would agitate Jews in high places. As well as Americans in high places. And anyone with a sense of propriety and truth.

There have been many eras with widely varying Jewish population in Jerusalem and across the lands of ancient Israel.

It's a very long history.

Yes, it is a very long history; Keyword: "Ancient." Jerusalem has been strongly associated with Israel historically longer and more legitimately than any other nation on the planet. If ever a case could be made for a nation's "Capital," "Jerusalem" is at the very top of the list.

Despite the many conquests and occupations by foreigners, Jerusalem has never stopped being the unofficial capital of Israel.

Historically and culturally -- Jerusalem more than any nation on earth -- merits and warrants official recognition and respect as a capital city of its people. In this case, obviously of Israel.

Any political proposal that suggests any other nation "share" its capital -- especially Jerusalem; especially with Muslims; especially the contrived "Palestine" -- is too bogus for words, based on a lie, and ...frankly, insulting to one's intelligence.

I realize you know this, but it bears repeating: Jerusalem has been historically JEWISH and the de facto capital of Israel for over 2000 years.

You mean, other than in 70 AD when the Romans leveled it, leaving it unrecognizable according to Josephus. Jesus did prophesy destruction of Jerusalem and the Disapora in Matthew 24. That's when they destroyed the other fortresses and cities of Israel. Enslaved the able-bodied adults and sold all under 17 as personal slaves. Josephus said 1.1 million inhabitants, mostly Jewish, were killed. Then Titus built the Arch of Titus to celebrate. The Jews really hate that thing.

Jerusalem has been strongly associated with Israel historically longer and more legitimately than any other nation on the planet.

The Chinese and especially the Japanese would dispute that. Others as well. Although I'm not saying that Jews have not had a substantial presence there throughout history.