Can you even phantom (fathom) the idea of being a law-abiding citizen not being able to have a gun unless they would swear allegiance to the government in order to have a gun?

They swore allegiance to the Revolution.

The government in power at that time was the British.

Bzzzt – Wrong!

Once again you are showing your ignorance. Don’t continue with this and make me also into an idiot. For it would be ar Robert Kiyosaki said: “If you argue with an idiot, there are two idiots.”

The members of the “American Colonial Society” rejected the authority of the British Parliament. In late 1774, the Patriots set up their own alternative government to better coordinate their resistance efforts against Great Britain. Each of the thirteen colonies formed a Provincial Congress that assumed power from the old colonial governments and suppressed Loyalism, and from there they built a Continental Army under the leadership of General George Washington. The Continental Congress determined King George's rule to be tyrannical and infringing the colonists' rights as Englishmen, and they declared the colonies free and independent states on July 2, 1776.

So, it is as I correctly stated: “A law-abiding citizen not being able to have a gun unless they would swear allegiance to the government.”

Tell me, why did you sleep through your American history classes …

Game on?

You have posted since this message so you must have seen it.
Are you contemplating a response to my challenge?
Or, are you ignoring me because you already know that you will show your ignorance?

BTW….I mean the recognized Official List of Founding Fathers [and Mothers].

Bzzzt – Wrong!

I really feel sorry for Mrs. Robinson. She probably is a very nice and kind lady who is the mother of some great kids but through ignorance drove into a “hornet’s nest” in New York at a time they were undertaking a severe crack down on the unauthorized carry of weapons. I make this statement assuming she was not intentionally breaking the law and expecting not to get caught. Furthermore, I don’t think she deserves jail time for her stupid mistake, but that’s not up to me….it is up to a judge and jury or a prosecutor to decide whether or not to dismiss the charge.

Furthermore, I am a firm supporter of the Second Amendment and I proudly carry. I accidently let my CCW permit expire but I continue to carry under the provisions of the Arizona law that now permits concealed carry [in unrestricted places] without a permit.

Having said all of this, I took umbrage with some folks trying to make the “Robinson Incident” a Second Amendment case….which it definitely was not. From all the research infor I could find, I determined that her arrest was Constitutional and performed under Constitutional Law. I don’t care how hard this grates on you or how much it may make you want to puke….but what I have posted through this thread are only facts and I have adequately defended all of my points.

Drawing a parallel to the song If you're gonna play in Texas, You gotta have a fiddle in the band ….I say, if your gonna argue in favor of the Second Amendment you gotta have your facts straight. Don’t argue from wishful emotion as to what you think things should be….argue from strength while armed with facts as to what things definitely are.

The Second Amendment is not some magical phrase you can shout out and then own and carry any weapon anywhere you want to at anytime you wish to do so. If you don’t know much about the Second Amendment….there is not a better time to learn ALL about it that now and there is no better place to learn ALL about it than the Internet.

Before I go, Deckard, I need to rate you….first on your factual knowledge of the Founding Fathers, then on your Second Amendment knowledge and finally on your Forum Décor.

Here are your scores presented in that same order reading from left to right …

But I really do fail to understand ignorant people who have an attitude to feel they are entitled and have the absolute authority to selectively choose which laws they want to obey and which laws they will disobey.

That's called ANARCHY. The only laws to be disobeyed are ones ALREADY DEEMED UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The AGENDA cult always feels they are important enough to deem what's constitutional or not from their constitutional scholar degrees.

Fuck them. That's not how we roll. They get ARRESTED... and if the law isn't constitutional, they have their case reviewed by the highest courts. The AGENDA cult thinks it works the other way around... they decide what's constitutional and deem the cops thugs... how can that not go wrong? lol

In late 1774, the Patriots set up their own alternative government...

Which did not supersede the British government.

So - when fed.gov decides that Assault Weapons are no longer allowed and that possession of any such weapons is a criminal offense, you will be completely on- board with armed government goons going door-to-door "collecting" any and all of these previously legal weapons.

Gee whiz pumpkin - it's a simple question, since it's obvious that you support ANY law that fed.gov decides to enact.

I'll take your non-response as a "yes".

In late 1774, the Patriots set up their own alternative government...

Which did not supersede the British government.

The point was NOT whether the alternative government supersede the British government or not.

The point always was that the colonists had to swear allegiance to the government before they could own a gun. The government they were required to swear allegiance to was the alternative government of the colonies.

Damn, boy, I hope your poor ole mama didn’t have as much trouble keeping you straight as I am …

This swearing allegiance to the government was required by the Founding Fathers and yet you continually stand up for them like they walk on water. This swearing to support the government is gross by your standards against how any American government should operate. I can only image how you would react if Trump requited you to swear allegiance to the government before you could have a weapon.

At some point in your life, you really do need to your shit together and GET FUCKING REAL …

Gee whiz pumpkin - it's a simple question …

I'll take your non-response as a "yes".

Here, I’ll let you listen to it …

And, your question was not a simple question. It is the same type false premise I would use were I to ask you: “If the people to whom you give blowjobs start requiring you to rinse your mouth with Listerine before you try to swallow their dicks….would you do it?”

See how stupid that is. Your question was just as stupid.

It was stupid and a false premise since it is something for which there is no evidence it would ever happen [let’s hope so in your case] ergo, it was a mute unanswerable question as I see it.

You really do need to get real. I know I have said that before….but I cannot say it often enough to you.

… it's obvious that you support ANY law that fed.gov decides to enact.

I can say that I have never found any reason not to support any law that the federal government has enacted so far in my life. At least none that I can ever remember. But I am not going to waste time searching my memory bank to try to find one.

That does not mean I will, nor is it intended to imply that I will, support all future laws the federal government enacts. I will make a decision when and if it ever becomes necessary.

FOOTNOTE: Get the fuck out from under your bed, Deckard, and quit falsely worrying each day that the Feds are going to smash in your front door and confiscate your guns. Learn to live life to the fullest….turn off the worry mode. Geeze …

--- the founding fathers would not permit ownership by many law-abiding white people either unless they would swear allegiance to the government in order to have a gun.

-- the colonists had to swear allegiance to the government before they could own a gun. The government they were required to swear allegiance to was the alternative government of the colonies.

This swearing allegiance to the government was required by the Founding Fathers ---

Gatlin has failed to cite exactly where or when this requirement was enacted by the founding fathers, or by "the alternative government of the colonies"..

Someone else may have to ask him, because he usually hides behind the bozo function to avoid my questions...

Gatlin has failed to cite exactly where or when this requirement was enacted by the founding fathers, or by "the alternative government of the colonies"..

Someone else may have to ask him, because he usually hides behind the bozo function to avoid my questions...

Gatlin is having some problems with queer-eye transplants etc., so who knows when his/her/it's surgical modification issues will be resolved, if ever? libertysflame.com/cgi-bin...gi?ArtNum=53601&Disp=7#C7

Probably started as a result of severe eye strain, from following yukon's ghey pron links.

In late 1774, the Patriots set up their own alternative government...

Which did not supersede the British government.

That is not the point.

That is EXACTLY the point!

We were REVOLTING against the British.

I can say that I have never found any reason not to support any law that the federal government has enacted so far in my life. At least none that I can ever remember.

Well, that pretty much sums up your submissive fealty to fed.gov.

Abortion, gay marriage, the assault weapons ban in 1994, NSA spying on American citizens. Doesn't matter to you - the State is your god.

I look forward to reading your post telling which part of “shall not be infringed” is NOT confusing to you” with great excitement and high expectations.

My apologies. I didn't realize you are senile.

You probably have never known that the founding father actually barred large portions of the public from possessing guns. Surprised? Oh, they surely did....slaves and free blacks were prohibited from owning guns. Reason? Because the founding fathers feared they might revolt if armed.

HorseHillary!

Slaves couldn't legally OWN firearms because they were,well,they were slaves.

Freed blacks could and DID own firearms. Some even fought in the Revolutionary War.

AND......,some slaves actually carried weapons on occasion,with their master's permission. They just couldn't OWN them,anymore than they could own any other property.

Oh, by the way….that is not my statement about how constitutional law developed….it came from the internet where constitutional lawyers

Oh,well! That's different! We all KNOW the internet or lawyers would never lie to us,right?

But since you brought it up, our constitutional right to own and possess firearms originated with the founding fathers.

Are you REALLY THAT freaking ignorant? The Founding Fathers said it was a DIVINE RIGHT THAT ALL FREE MEN HAD AT BIRTH. The 2nd Amendment merely identified and codified it.

BTW….I mean the recognized Official List of Founding Fathers [and Mothers].

What next,neices,nephews,and step-children?

Sidebar Question: Given how often you continue to refer to the Founding Fathers, everyone would think that you at least could pin down exactly who they were….can you?

Riddle me this,fatman. WHY the HELL is identifying their names so freaking important to you? They are long dead,and it is now impossible for you to lick their boots.

What is important is recognizing their accomplishments.

I have no doubt you recognize the name Albert Einstein. Does that mean you understand his theories?

I can say that I have never found any reason not to support any law that the federal government has enacted so far in my life. At least none that I can ever remember.

Well, that pretty much sums up your submissive fealty to fed.gov.

Exactly! He's just not happy unless he has a master's boot to lick.

Not there there is anything wrong or illegal about that. If it makes him happy,I'm happy for him. My objection is he wants us all to be bootlickers.

What next,neices,nephews,and step-children?

I have no doubt you recognize the name Albert Einstein.

Oh,well! That's different! We all KNOW the internet or lawyers would never lie to us,right?

Are you REALLY THAT freaking ignorant?

The Founding Fathers said it was a DIVINE RIGHT THAT ALL FREE MEN HAD AT BIRTH.

One of the biggest lies ever told by any Founding Father was written into the Declaration Of Independence.

It was …

“All men are created equal”

Thomas Jefferson authored that and Thomas Jefferson owned SLAVES before he wrote that, during the time he was writing that, and continued to do so long after he wrote that.

Riddle me this, uninformed dimwit. What in the Hell Did Thomas Jefferson actually Mean by “All Men Are Created Equal”?

Slaves couldn't legally OWN firearms because they were,well,they were slaves.

Freed blacks could and DID own firearms.

Freed blacks could ONLY own firearms after they swore allegiance to the government.

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

My point STILL is: You had to swear allegiance to the government at the time to own firearms.

Some [freed blacks] even fought in the Revolutionary War.

But my point STILL stands, the freed slaves had to swear allegiance to the government in order to own firearms.

AND......,some slaves actually carried weapons on occasion,with their master's permission. They just couldn't OWN [firearms] ….

So, since slaves couldn’t OWN firearms…then how in the HELL does this last statement from you support any point your are attempting to make or contradict anything I have thus far said?

Gatlin cannot post ANY proof that his statements below are true: ---

--- the founding fathers would not permit ownership by many law-abiding white people either unless they would swear allegiance to the government in order to have a gun.

-- the colonists had to swear allegiance to the government before they could own a gun. The government they were required to swear allegiance to was the alternative government of the colonies.

This swearing allegiance to the government was required by the Founding Fathers ---

Gatlin has failed to cite exactly where or when this requirement was enacted by the founding fathers, or by "the alternative government of the colonies"..

Typical of the crazy old coot...

I am however, vastly surprised you even knew how to spell Einstein’s name.

I have no doubt that many things surprise you on a daily basis.

But you believe and support the lying shit Deckard posts from TFTP.

I do? I support Deckard when he posts something I agree with,and don't support him when he posts stuff I don't agree with. Deal with it.

What makes one lie different from another lie for you?

Now you are confusing me with you. A lie is a lie,period.

Could it be that you display bias when you gather and remember information selectively? Hmmm …

Duhhhhh! Yes,I AM biased,because unlike you,*I* make up my own mind about what is right and what is wrong. I don't need party hacks to tell me what to think.

One of the biggest lies ever told by any Founding Father was written into the Declaration Of Independence.

It was …

“All men are created equal”

"In the eyes of the law" is unspoken,but assumed by everyone with a double-digit IQ.

It doesn't speak well for you that this has to be pointed out.

My point STILL is:

Right at the top of your head.

Right at the top of your head.

1) Kidnapped

2) According to Federal law

1) HAAAAAAA, YELLA BULLSHIT

2). States rights supersede, federal, pickle smootch. STFU.

My point STILL is:

Right at the top of your head.

That was an adorable quip but your intend satirical witticism crossed the line to become snarky and backfire to prompt me to show that it was the Founding Fathers who indeed had pointed heads.

I will never let get away by trying to be a smart ass and completely ignore irrefutable historical truth….although you may continue to show you are an ignorant ass when failing in any argument against any gun control by saying that it violates the Second Amendment.

Such a claim is extremely hard to square with the history under our nation’s Founding Fathers where all of the colonies under the Founding Fathers [except of course the Quaker-dominated Pennsylvania which blocked the creation of a militia] mandated a requirement that each of the colonies specifically keep track of ALL privately owned weapons.

One of the biggest lies ever told by any Founding Father was written into the Declaration Of Independence.
It was …
“All men are created equal”

"In the eyes of the law" is unspoken,but assumed by everyone with a double-digit IQ.
It doesn't speak well for you that this has to be pointed out.

“All men are created equal” was still a DAMNED LIE told by Thomas Jefferson regardless of any way you might TRY to SPIN it and MASK the truth.

If Thomas Jefferson and the Founding Fathers truly believed that all men are created equal, then they should not have owned slaves or all should have become slaves….that would have made all men equal.

Oh yea, “in the eyes of the law”….of course!!!

But you believe and support the lying shit Deckard posts from TFTP

I do? I support Deckard when he posts something I agree with,and don't support him when he posts stuff I don't agree with.

Deal with it.

What makes one lie different from another lie for you?

Now you are confusing me with you. A lie is a lie,period.

Could it be that you display bias when you gather and remember information selectively? Hmmm …

Duhhhhh! Yes,I AM biased …

I greatly appreciate your truthfulness here….thank you for that.

I am however, vastly surprised you even knew how to spell Einstein’s name.

I have no doubt that many things surprise you on a daily basis.

Yea, you are absolutely right, Pete….many things do surprise me on a daily basis.

I daily find that life is so full of unpredictable beauty and packed full of strange surprises.

Sometimes the beauty is almost too much for me to handle.

Do you know that feeling, Pete?

Do you know when something is just too beautiful, Pete?

Have you ever experienced a wonderful daily surprise that changed your for the better, Pete?

While the American Revolution was great, it however did not sweep away the English common law….most now independent colonies still followed the English common law as it had been interpreted in the colonies prior to independence which included the ban on traveling armed in populated areas

Shocking !!!

SInce the Founding Fathers and the now independent colonies elected to continue following most English common law….thusly, there was no general right for individuals armed travel when the Second Amendment was adopted and most certainly no right to travel with concealed weapons.Talk about gun control.

Yep, the colonies had it really bad under the Founding Fathers. The traditional English restrictions on traveling armed persisted with one important change. American law recognized an exception to this prohibition for individuals who had a good cause to fear an imminent threat. Nonetheless, by the end of the century, prohibiting public carry was the legal norm, not the exception.

Gasp !!!

For in 1786, Boston acted on the legal principle established by the Founding Fathers in that it prohibited the storage of a loaded firearm in any domestic dwelling in the city.

How ‘bout them apples, Pete. It would surely frost your ass today, if you had to obey the mandate set that the guns in your house had to be kept unloaded.

The Founding Fathers engaged in large-scale disarmament of the civilian populating during the American Revolution. The right to bear arms was conditional on swearing a loyalty oath to the government. Individuals who refused to swear such an oath were disarmed.

More importantly, It doesn’t bode well for you to try to cover up TRUTH by attempting to cloak “all men are created equal” and hide one of the biggest lies ever told by a Founding Father who was a SLAVE ONWER…a lie written into the Declaration Of Independence.

You really have obtained a previously undiscovered level of "dumb ass",ain't ya?

While the American Revolution was great, it however did not sweep away the English common law….most now independent colonies still followed the English common law as it had been interpreted in the colonies prior to independence which included the ban on traveling armed in populated areas

BullBush!

Complete and total.

You can demonize government power for gun control today all you want to and I will join with you at all times for that,

Gatlin: "I can say that I have never found any reason not to support any law that the federal government has enacted so far in my life."

You can demonize government power for gun control today all you want to and I will join with you at all times for that,

Gatlin: "I can say that I have never found any reason not to support any law that the federal government has enacted so far in my life."

But you now choose to conveniently ignore and leave that qualifier out so you can present a BIASED statement portraying a false conclusion….as you and your asshole God TFTP always do.

Everything is always FALSE with you bias-driven assholes!

***snicker***

Gatlin also said: “… that I can recall at this moment.”

Well...you've had several thousands of "moments" to reflect on which laws you do not support.

I gave you 4 in the original post that you could very well have expressed your opposition to.

Abortion, gay marriage, the assault weapons ban in 1994, NSA spying on American citizens. Doesn't matter to you - the State is your god.

Not a peep from the head canary as of yet.

That's called ANARCHY.

The notion that the Second Amendment was understood to protect a right to take up arms against the government is absurd.

Perhaps - however The Declaration of Independence would indicate that "to everything there's a season".

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

If the signers of the Declaration were alive today, it's a pretty safe bet they would agree that "it's time to shoot the bastards".

If the signers of the Declaration were alive today, it's a pretty safe bet they would agree that "it's time to shoot the bastards".

I continue to be very much shocked at some of your disputing assumptions which are absolute sanctities only to you where they will forever remain quite improbable propositions delivered in the dishonorable heat of defiance and indignation.

All of this is to say that based on what the signers of the Declaration did during their day, you are a stupid fool to believe you can predict what the signers of the Declaration of Independence would do today.

Get frigging real….asshole. Quit trying to predict what dead people from long ago would do today and clean up your own act to properly conduct yourself in your own actions.

Since it has been shown by me and it has been adequately documented that the signers of the Declaration were in favor of and enacted more stringent gun control laws that anything we have in existences today…

You're delusional.

Gatlin also said: “… that I can recall at this moment.”

Well...you've had several thousands of "moments" to reflect on which laws you do not support.

I have had several thousands of “moments” to reflect, but I am using those important moments to continue growingly enrich myself with successful swing trading in this wonderfully incomparable and unprecedented stock market with its upward movement action that our great President, The Right Honorable Donald J. Trump has caused for us.

I will however take a “moment” here and now to graciously say: Thank you, President Trump.

Not a peep from the head canary as of yet.

Right now I am quite busy with only another hour of trading and I need to make another couple of “thou”.

So, if it is a peep you want from your esteemed recognition of the almighty head canary ….then here is your peep:

THERE….take that peep, then go and continue to fuck yourself.