>> and the data was directly entered into the cells by hand.

Bzzzt.  Fail again.

d is the target distance.(range)
Vs is the velocity of sound, and
Vb is the average bullet velocity over the distance
Tb is d / Vb (time to cover distance @ Vb)
Ts is d/Vs (time to cover distance @Vs)

LOL please tell the class why the bullet accelerates / decelerates / accelerates repeatedly when your "analysis" is applied?

The time in the chart rendered by the ballistic calculator only has 2 decimals of precision.

Calculating the average per the reported velocity is thus more accurate.

More accurate is to divide the distance by the velocity and get the time to more decimal places and eliminate the rounding error. Your bullshit methodology of summing velocities and dividing does not work. It is bullshit.

Your chart in Column 2 from btgresearch indicates Tb for range 1950 is 0.86 seconds. Column 5 for 1950 range indicates Tb is 0.823621. You call that fixing a rounding error???? How did displaying only two decimal places to 0.86 convert to 0.823621.

Of course, the time of 0.02 could represent a figure rounded to two decimal places for presentation, and actually represent anything from 0.0150 to 0.0249.

75 feet divided by Vel[x] 3239 75/3239 feet, taken to six decimal places gives 0.0231552 seconds bullet travel time. Hot damn, it's within the rounding error.

At Vel[x+y] 3240 feet per second, and 75 feet distance, the time to six decimal places would be 0.0231481 seconds bullet travel time and hot damn, that's within the rounding error too.

You have the distance and velocity as a given from btgresearch. Divide the distance by the velocity d/V, and you can calculate the time to however many decimal places you desire.

The stupid... it hurts!

The chart results are based on the data you entered.

As I demonstratred, the same data entered for My BB's produces a chart with the same data for BB's.

If the chart correctly calculated the ballistic data for the parameters you entered,

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=34fa8220

Tell everybody how you derived average velocity.

Come on. Question my analysis of how you made a botch of the Average Bullet Velocity. Give us your methodology and formula.

Why were all your calculations wrong except for distance divided by time?

The data which you input did not come from any real life ammunition, you just entered stuff, as I did for My BB's. I just entered the same stuff you did, proving my bb's have an initial Vel[x+y] of 3240 fps. My BB's perform precisely as do your imaginary cartridge. Are you saying the ballistics chart you used produced invalid results?

If the chart results are valid, please tell the class why the chart indicates the bullet traveled 75 ft. in 0.02 seconds and that indicates average velocity d/time of 750/.02 = 3750 fps.

It's your data. If the ballistics chart calculated correctly, you should understand the chart you presented, and be able to explain the results given.

Do you think you are entitled to just use a nonsense formula which produces nosense results because you do not understand the chart data that you selected and presented?

The note at the bottom of the chart indicates:

Keep in mind this is an approximation....

Thank you, Lord.

and the data was directly entered into the cells by hand.

Bzzzt. Fail again.

Nope. You said you created spreadsheet and used their formulas. Had you used their formulas you would not have bullshit results, including arithmetic errors in the columns.

Which formula of theirs did you use to manufacture the wrong bullet velocities?

Cite any source that says to find average velocity with the method you used.

When you introduced this bullshit on the other thread at your #19 to A K A Stone, you said:

https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=53046&Disp=19#C19

I found/took their formula, built a spreadsheet, and plugged in 223 balistic data generated via shooterscalculator.com:

Only you did not use their formulas or you would not have gotten all the data you derived bass ackwards wrong, and you did not create formulas and drag them down through the rows, or you would not have the calculation errors the are apparent.

I created a spreadsheet using the same data and created formulas and dragged them down through the rows. They work. That is how I can pinpoint where you made calculating errors in your data entry.

All you did was cut and paste the chart data into a spreadsheet workbook.

Columns 1 thru 3 were cut and paste.

For Column 4, there is no chance that you created a formula and dragged it down through the rows. You go off at range 900 where you summed to 36497 instead of 36496. This error of 1 continues through to range 1275, where you summed to 47,572 instead of 45,570. This put the summing error at 2, which continued through range 1950 where you ended.

This is not a spreadsheet error. I used two different formulas to sum the velocities, with results identical to each other. You used no formula. You sat there with your pocket calculator and added the first two and typed in the result. Then you added the third velocity and typed in the result. And you did this for each data entry in that column. If you have any spreadsheet formula that can replicate your results, produce it.

As Column 4 calculates the sum of the velocities divided by the number of velocities, and the sum of the velocities was not created by a formula on a spreadsheet column, the column was manual data entry.

In Column 5, d/Vb, the distance is correctly divided by the bogus average velocity, yielding a bogus result. When it is as simple as programming one column divided by another, good job. When it is summing a changing number of rows, fuhgetaboutit. That was direct data entry with arithmetic errors.

In Column 6, I stated you were able to divide distance by 1130.8. When it is summing a changing number of rows, fuhgetaboutit. That was direct data entry with arithmetic errors.

In Column 7, you managed to correctly subtract the bogus data in Column 5 from the bogus data in Column 6, yielding all bogus results. When it is as simple as programming one column subtracted from another, good job. It should have included an ABS function to avoid getting negative time results.When it is summing a changing number of rows, fuhgetaboutit. That was direct data entry with arithmetic errors.

As Columns 5 and 7 incorporate the brain dead data in Column 4, with a double whammy of a bogus formula and calculation errors, all data in Columns 5 and 7 is bogus.

Your chart in Column 2 from btgresearch indicates Tb for range 1950 is 0.86 seconds. Column 5 for 1950 range indicates Tb is 0.823621. You call that fixing a rounding error???? How did displaying only two decimal places to 0.86 convert to 0.823621????

As Column 4 calculates the sum of the velocities divided by the number of velocities, and the sum of the velocities was not created by a formula on a spreadsheet column, the column was manual data entry.

Bzzzt. Another Nolu-FAIL.

=SUM(C9:C10)/L9
=SUM(C$9:C11)/L10
=SUM(C$9:C12)/L11
etc.
Where column L contains 1 @ row 8 and =+L8+1, =+L9+1 etc for rows 9..34

Now please tell us how Nolu-Time works and then explain why the values of Column J are closer to Time (Column B) than Nolu-Time(Column I)?

"more accurate is to divide the distance by the velocity and get the time to more decimal places

nolu chan    posted on  2017-10-28   18:47:52 ET 

https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53025&Disp=153#C153

You stipulate a DISTANCE ratio of 99:1. Nice try.

I correctly illustrate the flaw inherent in taking a momentary point velocity of a continuously decelerating proctile and ASSuming it to be an average.

There's a question regarding whether the value of Vel[x+y] for a given 75ft vector segment is the average Velocity OR whether it's just the momentry V at point d.

Here is the spreadsheet updated with Tcalc where Tcalc is an attempt to reconstruct the elapsed Time for a given Vector:

We're moving in the right direction - but the calculation for Tcalc could be even more accurate by deriving it from the slope of the DIFFERENCE between Vmin and Vmax for a given vector segment, rather than taking momentary V at point d and ASSuming it's a constant velocity over the entire 75ft segment... like you are.

Chan is kicking your ass and you are looking foolish with all your errors.

Says the genius who posts videos with scribbling on a whiteboard presented as "PROOF".

Can you solve for T given a 75 foot vector having Vmin and Vmax?

Let's see if Noluchan's donkey can!

How's that workin' for ya?

Meanwhile:

Q: Can you solve for T given a 75 foot vector having Vmin and Vmax?
A: { crickets crickets crickets }

Could you provide me a list of all of your errors that you posted so I can remove them from the site so people don't look at bullshit?

Blue 42 Blue 42 hut hut hike.

Ok I proved you are wrong.

How do you determine your opinion?

My mind it is a beautiful thing.

You agree with his analysis 100 percent correct.

Or is your mind superior like mine and know that his analysis is bullshit. To many errors. To many things not factored in.

I'm not saying that there were multiple shooters. I'm not saying Pollock or Paddock or whatever his name was didn't act alone.

I'm just saying what V dude offers as 100 percent conclusive proof is not conclusive or proof.

Says the genius who posts videos with scribbling on a whiteboard presented as "PROOF".

Says the genius who made up an image with lots of wrong and made up numbers.

I know the truth know. Spock is controlling your mind.

Does that work in AKA Stoned Land?

There's nothing wrong with refining an analysis in the context of an honest desire to seek the truth.

Time is still not being calculated with 100% accuracy. Why is that?

Truth is great and will prevail unless deprived of her natural weapons, free argument and debate.

Does that work in AKA Stoned Land?

That is fine.

Truth also works if false things are no longer out there.

If you care about truth why don't you find a list of all the posts yoy made with errors so we can correct them with the latest and the greatest.

If you care about truth why don't you find a list of all the posts yoy made with errors

In this case, the truth is still a work in process.

For the next step in the process - Maybe "yoy" and Noluchan's donkey can tell us why applying a linear calculation (d/v) to a non-linear velocity produces values for Time which are farther away from the Ballistic chart's value for T than rounding can explain?

Maybe you and Noluchan's donkey can tell us why applying a linear calculation (d/v) to a non-linear velocity produces values for Time which are farther away from the Ballistic chart's value for T than rounding can explain?

ROTFL

{ crickets crickets crickets }

So,

Illustration A: Vb calculated from d/Tcalc, where Tcalc= (d=75ft)/Vel
Illustration B: Vb using my original Average of summed Velocity values.

A: B:

Please explain how, in the context of the highlighted range of interest on the concert field, Noluchan's idea to reconstruct Time by taking (d=75ft)/Vel[x+y]
 does not seem to produce results that magically render the values produced by summing and averaging Vel[x+y] into "bullshit"

?

Feel free to consult Noluchan's Donkey, since it probably has better temperament and reading comprehension skills than either of you two have demonstrated.

I correctly illustrate the flaw inherent in taking a momentary point velocity of a continuously decelerating proctile and ASSuming it to be an average.

There's a question regarding whether the value of Vel[x+y] for a given 75ft vector segment is the average Velocity OR whether it's just the momentry V at point d.

The problem is that you are clueless and do not know what your are doing and do not know what a vector is.

Here is a correct spreadsheet:

BALLISTICS DATA SPREADSHEET

As a vector is described by a line and not a point, the Column D velocity at 75 feet describes the average bullet velocity for the segment from 0 to 75 feet, and the velocity at 150 feet describes the average bullet velocity from 0 to 150 feet, and so on.

The time for 75 feet indicates the elapsed time for 0 to 75 feet. The time for 150 feet indicates the elapsed time for 0 to 150 feet.

Column C, the time, is derived by dividing Column B (distance) by Column D. In your chart it is was rounded off to two decimal places. I took it to four decimal places.

Your added Rube Goldberg nonsense was not only wrong but unecessary. Average velocity at the stated distances was staring you in the face.

In Columns H thru L, I have provided the data for each 75-foot segment.

At 1575 feet, the bullet opens its largest gap on sound at 0.05502 seconds.

From 1575 to 1650 feet, the bullet travels at an average velocity of 1127.9144 fps, dipping below the speed of sound. After that, sound is traveling faster than the bullet and the gap diminishes.

>>Here is a correct spreadsheet

Too bad it's not one you created with ballistic data as per the methodology:

http://www.btgr esearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf

Meanwhile,

Please explain how, in the context of the highlighted range of interest on the concert field, Your idea to reconstruct Time by taking (d=75ft)/Vel[x+y] does not seem to produce results that magically render the values produced by summing and averaging Vel[x+y] into " bullshit"

?

Illustration A: Vb calculated from d/Tcalc, where Tcalc= (d=75ft)/Vel
Illustration B: Vb using my original Average of summed Velocity values.

A:  B:

Please explain how, in the context of the highlighted range of interest on the concert field, Noluchan's idea to reconstruct Time by taking (d=75ft)/Vel[x+y]
 does not seem to produce results that magically render the values produced by summing and averaging Vel[x+y] into " bullshit"

?

There are experts out there. So why aren't we hearing from them? Is it because they find the audio data to be ambiguous? Who knows.

There are experts out there. So why aren't we hearing from them?

I asked the authors of the study

http://www.btgresearch.org/AcousticReconstruction02042012.pdf

They replied:

"our standard operating procedure is to avoid public comments on shooting events. This better protects our neutrality and value of our analysis in the event that we are retained by an agency or party to subsequent legal proceedings. We also like to restrict our analysis to materials that come into our possession following a proper and documented chain of custody regarding handling of evidence.

When it comes time for depositions or courtroom testimony, most experts who have made prior public comments on a matter find that opposing legal counsel, opposing experts, and the blogosphere find ways to make them regret earlier public comments."

===============

In light of what can be observed here - that makes sense.

Well, it is an explanation.

Yeah. In the meantime, I've found this exercise to be a worthwhile learning experience.

At 1950 ft your "spreadsheet" has an elapsed time of 1.2119 with a corresponding Vel[x+y] of 1609.

Meanwhile observe the corresponding elapsed time and Vel[x+y] generated by:

ShooterCalculator.com

OOPS!

How'd ya manage to do that, Professor DonkyChan? 

Yeah. In the meantime, I've found this exercise to be a worthwhile learning experience.

I'm not telling you to stop or that you're wasting your time. You might stumble over something unnoticed by everyone. Recall how Dan Rather was brought down by a persistent guy that noticed the fonts in the fake documents about Dumbya's military service.

Illustration A: Vb calculated from d/Tcalc, where Tcalc= (d=75ft)/Vel

If your Column c, Vel[x+y] (ft/s) represents an instantaneous velocity, it cannot be used in this manner.

Make up your mind, does Column C represent instantaneous velocities, valid only at a single point, and not over any range?

it cannot be used in this manner.

Says the Donkey who managed to transform 0.86 seconds into 1.2119 seconds.

Meanwhile...

http://www.answers.com/Q /What_is_instantaneous_slope

As per what I said in https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53046&Disp=105#C105 the next step in the quest is to explore methods of deriving Time relative to the slope of the DIFFERENCE between Vmin and Vmax for a given vector segment.

Meanwhile...

http://www.answers.com/Q /What_is_instantaneous_slope

As per what I said in https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53046&Disp=105#C105 the next step in the quest is to explore methods of deriving Time relative to the slope of the DIFFERENCE between Vmin and Vmax for a given vector segment.

To find what is at your source, we go to the link, which, like the link to the Khan Academy, only shows that you are bullshitting.

You seem to have a special affinity in providing cut and paste bullshit as as some sort of profound knowledge.

http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_instantaneous_slope

Answer byBlue
Confidence votes 38.3K

The instantaneous slope of a curve is the slope of that curve at a single point. In calculus, this is called the derivative. It also might be called the line tangent to the curve at a point.

If you imagine an arbitrary curve (just any curve) with two points on it (point P and point Q), the slope between P and Q is the slope of the line connecting those two points. This is called a secant line. If you keep P where it is and slide Q closer and closer to P along the curve, the secant line will change slope as it gets smaller and smaller. When Q gets extremely close to P (so that there is an infinitesimal space between P and Q), then the slope of the secant line approximates the slope at P. When we take the limit of that tiny distance as it approaches zero (meaning we make the space disappear) we get the slope of the curve at P. This is the instantaneous slope or the derivative of the curve at P.

Mathematically, we say that the slope at P = limh—>0 [f(x+h) - f(x)]÷h = df/dx, where h is the distance between P and Q, f(x) is the position of P, f(x+h) is the position of Q, and df/dx is the derivative of the curve with respect to x.

The formula above is a specific case where the derivative is in terms of x and we're dealing with two dimensions. In physics, the instantaneous slope (derivative) of a position function is velocity, the derivative of velocity is acceleration, and the derivative of acceleration is jerk.

Of course, the calculus formula P = limh—>0 [f(x+h) - f(x)]÷h = df/dx, where h is the distance between P and Q, f(x) is the position of P, f(x+h) is the position of Q, and df/dx is the derivative of the curve with respect to x was not used anywhere in your spreadsheet, so you are just bullshitting.

Also,

When Q gets extremely close to P (so that there is an infinitesimal space between P and Q), then the slope of the secant line approximates the slope at P. When we take the limit of that tiny distance as it approaches zero (meaning we make the space disappear) we get the slope of the curve at P. This is the instantaneous slope or the derivative of the curve at P.

However, the slope of a bullet in flight is constantly changing, the deceleration is not constant, and the slope contains an infinite number of points.

Moreover, you have merely bullshitted and have not described any formula to obtain the average velocity of the bullet over a given range, using instantaneous velocities.

While you claim calculus formulas in your spreadsheet, you have yet to show a formula to sum changing parts of a spreadsheet column, i.e., sum row 1 and 2, sum row 1 thru 3, then row 1 thru 4, and so forth. I used such a formula and it showed that your column contained arithmetical errors not created by a spreadsheet formula. When you can program adding sums, I'll consider you doing calculus. As it is, you have not demostrated the ability to consistently add two numbers together, which is what you did to to sum that column. You added rows 1 and 2 to get the row 2 total; then you added row 3 to get the row 3 total, and so on, making two errors in 26 rows. You are fortunate it was now a thousand rows on a spreadsheet in a finance office.

The formula for calculating average velocity (d/t) is given by the Khan Academy in the video you referenced. In their example, they divide a distance fo 1000m by 200s and get an average velocity of 5 m/s, and then they explicitly state, that siad result "doesn't necessarily equal the instantaneous velocities at particular points."

The Khan Academy does not say that you can sum two instantaneous velocities and divide by two, and get an average velocity between the two points. See what you referenced. The first sentence is important — pretend you are a physics student.

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/one-dimensional-motion/displacement-velocity-time/v/instantaneous-speed-and-velocity

Video transcript

- [Instructor] Pretend you are a physics student. You are just getting out of class. You were walking home when you remembered that there was a Galaxy Wars marathon on tonight, so you'd do what every physics student would do: run. You're pretty motivated to get home, so say you start running at six meters per second. Maybe it's been a while since the last time you ran, so you have to slow down a little bit to two meters per second. When you get a little closer to home, you say: "No, Captain Antares wouldn't give up "and I'm not giving up either", and you start running at eight meters per second and you make it home just in time for the opening music. These numbers are values of the instantaneous speed. The instantaneous speed is the speed of an object at a particular moment in time.

And if you include the direction with that speed, you get the instantaneous velocity. In other words, eight meters per second to the right was the instantaneously velocity of this person at that particular moment in time.

Note that this is different from the average velocity. If your home was 1,000 meters away from school and it took you a total of 200 seconds to get there, your average velocity would be five meters per second, which doesn't necessarily equal the instantaneous velocities at particular points on your trip.

In other words, let's say you jogged 60 meters in a time of 15 seconds. During this time you were speeding up and slowing down and changing your speed at every moment. Regardless of the speeding up or slowing down that took place during this path, your average velocity's still just gonna be four meters per second to the right; or, if you like, positive four meters per second.

Just as your instantaneous velocity at two discrete and infinitesimal points can not be summed and divided by two to obtain average velocity, the instantaneous slope at two discrete and infinitesimal points will be different and cannot be used to calculate the slope of a traveling bullet whose velocity is contantly changing.

While this bullshit about instantaneous slopes has diverted from your other bullshit about instantaneous velocities, you are still left searching to explain

(1) your calculation used to derive average velocity over the specified distances,

(2) your calculation used to change the formula for calculating average velocity over distance.

Your chart stipulated distance and time.

For 75 feet, you stipulated 0.02 seconds. This is your data, not mine.

Using the formula, d/t=V(avg), that is 3,750 feet per second average velocity.

If we assume that you meant the time to be anything between 0.015 and 0.025 seconds, that is 3000 - 5000 feet per second average velocity.

For 1950 feet, you stipulated 0.86 seconds, and an average velocity of 2367.5926 feet per second, obtained by a formula you can neither present nor explain, nor can you provide any citation to any authority for your bullshit calculation.

V(avg) = d/t = 1950/0.86 = 2267.4418 feet per second average velocity.

If we assume that you meant the time to be anything between 0.855 and 0.865, then,

V(avg) may equal 1950/0.0855 = 2280.7017

V(avg) may equal 1950/0.0865 = 2254.3353

Meanwhile, your bullshit 2367.5926 average velocity allows one to derive the time required to travel 1950 feet. 1950/2367.5926 = 0.823621429 seconds.

Indeed, your second time for Tb, the time of the bullet, in your column E, reflects a bullet flight time of 0.823621 seconds, giving three less decimal points than I did, but rounding the the same precise thing at your chosen four decimal places, indicating how you derived that bullshit Tb from the bullshit average velocity.

To check whether this bullshit time is not impossible with the stipulated data, one need only check if it is within the rounding possibilities of the stipulated data, i.e., from 0.855 to 0.865 seconds. Oh noes, your bullshit average velocity (0.823621) is not possible to reconcile with the stiplulated time, even allowing for the maximum rounding error. Your misbegotten time would round to 0.82 instead of 0.86.

You have yet to explain how you can stipulate a bullet time of 0.86 seconds, and through the magic of VxH formulas, transform that time into 0.823621 seconds, and then use that visibly bullshit time to perform further bullshit calculations.

If the bullet flew 1950 feet in 0.823621, why sure enough it went at an average velocity of 2367.5938 and covered 1950 feet.

However, at the stipulated time of 0.86 seconds, at the bullshit average velocity of 2367.5938 feet per second, the bullet would have flown 2036.1307 feet. The stipulated distance is 1950 feet.

At the maximum rounding down error to 0.855 seconds, at your bullshit average velocity of 2367.5926, the bullet would have flown 2024.292699 feet (0.855 x 2367.5926). The stipulated distance is 1950 feet.

With your stipulated data, you may not have more or less than 1950 feet. You may not have less than 0.855 seconds flight time, nor more than 0.865 seconds flight time. You cannot change the distance the bullet flew, nor do more than consider a rounding error on the time. Your calculated numbers fail miserably.

Your bullshit calculated numbers fall outside the maximum possible error attributable to a rounding error.

Your bullshit calculations result in a new time, not within any rounding error, replacing 0.86 with 0.823621.

Your bullshit average velocity over 1950 feet (2367.5926), at the maximum rounding error for stipulated time (0.86 rounded down to 0.855), requires the bullet to fly a minimum of 2024.292699 feet.

WHY IS YOUR CALCULATED DATA OUTSIDE THE POSSIBLE LIMITS OF A TIME ROUNDING ERROR???

LOL. Idiot.

ShooterCalculator.com Says:

========================

Professor DonkeyChan says:

4

d

Time

(avg) Vel[x+y]

5

(ft)

d/Vel[x+y]

(ft/s)

32

1950

1.2119

1609

1.2119 seconds

nolu chan     posted on  2017-10-30   19:58:41 ET

https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53025&Disp=160#C160

Unresponsive obfuscatory yukonesque bullshit

WHY IS YOUR CALCULATED DATA OUTSIDE THE POSSIBLE LIMITS OF A TIME ROUNDING ERROR???

Column B of above spreadsheet shows the specified distance and the specified time for that distance.

Column C shows the specified time for the distance traveled.

Column D shows the time rounded down to the minimum time possibly explained by rounding.

Column E shows the time rounded up to the maximum time possibly explained by rounding.

Column F shows the Average Velocity (d/t) calculated with the unadjusted time from Column C.

Column G shows the Average Velocity (d/t) calculated with the minimum time possible from Column D. This minimum time of flight shows the maximum possible average velocity of the bullet.

Column H shows the Average Velocity (d/t) calculsted with the maximum time possible from Column E. This maximum time of flight show the minimum average velocity of the bullet.

Column I shows the time for sound to travel the distance at 1130 fps.

Column J shows the time difference between the bullet and the sound using unadjusted time from Column C.

Column K shows the maximum possible time difference between the bullet and the sound using the time rounded down in Column D.

Column L shows the minimum possible time difference between the bullet and the sound using the time rounded up in Column E.

Column N states VXH Average Velocity using undisclosed math, presumably of Klingon origin.

Column O states the instantaneous velocities at the distances specified in Column B. These velocities reflect a specific and infinitesimal point it time only, and do not describe velocity at any other point in time.

Comparing Columns H and N, Column H calculates the maximum possible average velocity with the time round down as far is is possible. Column N is the average velocity claimed by VxH, using his secret Klingon mathematics.

Notice his secret method obtain an average velocity well below the maximum possible for 75 feet, but comes nearer to the maximum possible with every calculation, and at 1200 feet his calculations leave the realm of the possible.

At 1200 feet, at the specified time of 0.46 seconds, the average velocity would be 2608.70 feet per second (1200/0.46). Anyone can do the arithmetic. At 1200 feet, at 0.46 seconds rounded down as far as possible to 0.455 seconds (Column D), the maximum average veocity of 2637.36 feet per second (Column G) is achieved (2637.36/0.455). Anyone can still do the arithmetic. At this point, the VxH calculations exceed the possibilities of reality and achieve 2675.1176 feet per second.

After this point, every VxH calculation widens the error.

At 1950 feet, the Column G max average velocity is 2280.70 (1950/0.0855). After more calculations, the VxH error expands the difference to 2367.5926 feet per second.

If carried on to further distances, the error will simply keep increasing. He started with 64% of the maximum possible average velocity, and surpassed 100% of the maximum on his 16th calculation, and continued to surpass the maximum possible average velocity by a greater and greater amount.

Moreover, the distance and the time were a given.

....d ........ t ... Vxh

...ft........ sec .... sec per VxH

   75      0.02     0.023427     
  150     0.05     0.047413
  225     0.07     0.071971
  300     0.10     0.097113
  375     0.12     0.122843
  450     0.15     0.149183
  525     0.18     0.176138
  600     0.20     0.203720
  675     0.23     0.231943
  750     0.26     0.260820
  825     0.29     0.290357
  900     0.32     0.320574
  975     0.36     0.351496
1050     0.39     0.383128
1125     0.42     0.415484
1200    0.46     0.448578
1275    0.49     0.482427
1350    0.53     0.517054
1425    0.56     0.552465
1500    0.60     0.588675
1575    0.64     0.625711
1650    0.68     0.663578
1725    0.73     0.702290
1800    0.77     0.741864
1875    0.81     0.782303
1950    0.86     0.082621

Notice how VxH, in his calculations, at and after 1200 feet, reduces the time of flight of the bullet by more than any possible amount of rounding from two decimal places.

By 1950 feet, VxH has "rounded off" 0.86 and amazingly reduced the stated flight time to his own preferred 0.82621.

>>By 1950 feet, VxH has "rounded off" 0.86

Nope. Not a rounding error Super Genius.  It's an artifact manufacted from the AVERAGING curve.

>>preferred 0.82621.

Nope. Try to keep up - - I've moved on with a revised curve that reconstructs time from Velocity and Distance,

As per what I said in https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53046&Disp=105#C105  the next step in the quest is to explore methods of deriving Time relative to  the slope of the DIFFERENCE between Vmin and Vmax for a given vector segment.

So, Professor DonkeyChan -- Here is the ballistic data table generated for 1 yard intervals from 1875 to 1950 ft.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic- trajectory-chart.php? pl=223+RemingtonLVA&presets=223+RemingtonLVA~%5BChart+Label%5D~G1~0.300~62~3240~ 100~1.5~-33~0~0~true~2000~72~29.92~21~true~1000~25&df=G1&bc=0.300&bw=62& amp; amp; amp; amp;vi=3240&zr=100&sh=1.5&sa=-33&ws=0&wa=0&cfa=on&alt=0& amp; amp; amp; amp;tmp=72&bar=29.92&hum=21&ssb=on&cr=1000&ss=1&chartColumns =Range~ft%3BTime~s%3BVel%5Bx%2By%5D~ft%2Fs&lbl=Test&submitst=+Create+Chart+

Range	Time	Vel[x+y]
(ft)	(s)	(ft/s)
1875	0.81	1658
1878	0.81	1656
1881	0.82	1654
1884	0.82	1652
1887	0.82	1650
1890	0.82	1648
1893	0.82	1646
1896	0.83	1644
1899	0.83	1642
1902	0.83	1640
1905	0.83	1638
1908	0.83	1636
1911	0.83	1634
1914	0.84	1632
1917	0.84	1630
1920	0.84	1628
1923	0.84	1626
1926	0.84	1624
1929	0.85	1622
1932	0.85	1621
1935	0.85	1619
1938	0.85	1617
1941	0.85	1615
1944	0.86	1613
1947	0.86	1611
1950	0.86	1609

Give it up you are looking foolish.

Nah, foolish is not knowing that in order to recreate the ballistic data curve (and thus the average Velocity over a given distance) with complete accuracy would require duplicating the function used in the Ballistic chart generator.

Meanwhile, averaging via various methods to get an approximation is completely acceptable - and USEFUL for gaining an understanding into what the audio is telling us.

[VxH #133] Nope. Try to keep up - - I've moved on with a revised curve that reconstructs time from Velocity and Distance,

You have explored methods which require require rewriting the bullet flight times far beyond any possible rounding error. Reconstructing the given travel time is VxH BULLSHIT.

YOUR CALCULATED DATA IS ALL BULLSHIT, AS ARE YOU

Time and distance are given. Rounding the given time up or down does not help your bullshit work. Your bullshit methodology changes the given 0.86 seconds elapsed time to 0.82 seconds.

There is no valid formula in the world for that.

Time and distance are given data. Average velocity equals distance divided by time. Distance in feet, divideded by time in seconds, yields velocity in feet per second.

WHY IS YOUR CALCULATED DATA OUTSIDE THE POSSIBLE LIMITS OF A TIME ROUNDING ERROR???

Column B of above spreadsheet shows the specified distance and the specified time for that distance.

Column C shows the specified time for the distance traveled.

Column D shows the time rounded down to the minimum time possibly explained by rounding.

Column E shows the time rounded up to the maximum time possibly explained by rounding.

Column F shows the Average Velocity (d/t) calculated with the unadjusted time from Column C.

Column G shows the Average Velocity (d/t) calculated with the minimum time possible from Column D. This minimum time of flight shows the maximum possible average velocity of the bullet.

Column H shows the Average Velocity (d/t) calculsted with the maximum time possible from Column E. This maximum time of flight show the minimum average velocity of the bullet.

Column I shows the time for sound to travel the distance at 1130 fps.

Column J shows the time difference between the bullet and the sound using unadjusted time from Column C.

Column K shows the maximum possible time difference between the bullet and the sound using the time rounded down in Column D.

Column L shows the minimum possible time difference between the bullet and the sound using the time rounded up in Column E.

Column N states VXH Average Velocity using undisclosed math, presumably of Klingon origin.

Column O states the instantaneous velocities at the distances specified in Column B. There velocities reflect a specific and infinitesimal point it time only, and do not describe velocity at any other point in time.

Comparing Columns H and N, Column H calculates the maximum possible average velocity with the time round down as far is is possible. Column N is the average velocity claimed by VxH, using his secret Klingon mathematics.

Notice his secret method obtain an average velocity well below the maximum possible for 75 feet, but comes nearer to the maximum possible with every calculation, and at 1200 feet his calculations leave the realm of the possible.

At 1200 feet, at the specified time of 0.46 seconds, the average velocity would be 2608.70 feet per second (1200/0.46). Anyone can do the arithmetic. At 1200 feet, at 0.46 seconds rounded down as far as possible to 0.455 seconds (Column D), the maximum average veocity of 2637.36 feet per second (Column G) is achieved (2637.36/0.455). Anyone can still do the arithmetic. At this point, the VxH calculations exceed the possibilities of reality and achieve 2675.1176 feet per second.

After this point, every VxH calculation widens the error.

At 1950 feet, the Column G max average velocity is 2280.70 (1950/0.0855). After more calculations, the VxH error expands the difference to 2367.5926 feet per second.

If carried on to further distances, the error will simply keep increasing. He started with 64% of the maximum possible average velocity, and surpassed 100% of the maximum on his 16th calculation, and continued to surpass the maximum possible average velocity by a greater and greater amount.

Moreover, the distance and the time were a given.

d ........ given..........Vxh bullshit

ft.......... sec..... sec

    75     0.02     0.023427     
  150     0.05     0.047413
  225     0.07     0.071971
  300     0.10     0.097113
  375     0.12     0.122843
  450     0.15     0.149183
  525     0.18     0.176138
  600     0.20     0.203720
  675     0.23     0.231943
  750     0.26     0.260820
  825     0.29     0.290357
  900     0.32     0.320574
  975     0.36     0.351496
1050     0.39     0.383128
1125     0.42     0.415484
1200    0.46     0.448578
1275    0.49     0.482427
1350    0.53     0.517054
1425    0.56     0.552465
1500    0.60     0.588675
1575    0.64     0.625711
1650    0.68     0.663578
1725    0.73     0.702290
1800    0.77     0.741864
1875    0.81     0.782303
1950    0.86     0.082621

Notice how VxH, in his calculations, at and after 1200 feet, reduces the time of flight of the bullet by more than any possible amount of rounding from two decimal places.

By 1950 feet, VxH has "rounded off" 0.86 and amazingly calculated, by secret methodology, the stated flight time to his own preferred 0.82621.

That is VxH bullshit. Not only wrong but impossible on its face.

[VxH]

    1950	0.86	1609

Now tell us, Professor DonkeyChan - from the data provided, what is the average Velocity for the 75 ft segment ending at 1950 ft (1950ft, being the point at which, BTW, the instantaneous velocity is 1609fps)?

The average velocity of any object covering 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds is 1950/0.86 = 2267.4419 feet per second. It could be a flying refrigerator. If it goes 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds, the average velocity is 2267.4419 seconds.

The object could have sped up and slowed down between 0 and 1950 feet in any manner and it makes no difference. If the object covers the 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds, the average velocity for the 1950 foot distance is 2267.4419 seconds.

Recall the Khan Academy video you previously referenced:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/one-dimensional-motion/displacement-velocity-time/v/instantaneous-speed-and-velocity

Video transcript

- [Instructor] Pretend you are a physics student. You are just getting out of class. You were walking home when you remembered that there was a Galaxy Wars marathon on tonight, so you'd do what every physics student would do: run. You're pretty motivated to get home, so say you start running at six meters per second. Maybe it's been a while since the last time you ran, so you have to slow down a little bit to two meters per second. When you get a little closer to home, you say: "No, Captain Antares wouldn't give up "and I'm not giving up either", and you start running at eight meters per second and you make it home just in time for the opening music. These numbers are values of the instantaneous speed. The instantaneous speed is the speed of an object at a particular moment in time.

And if you include the direction with that speed, you get the instantaneous velocity. In other words, eight meters per second to the right was the instantaneously velocity of this person at that particular moment in time.

Note that this is different from the average velocity. If your home was 1,000 meters away from school and it took you a total of 200 seconds to get there, your average velocity would be five meters per second, which doesn't necessarily equal the instantaneous velocities at particular points on your trip.

In other words, let's say you jogged 60 meters in a time of 15 seconds. During this time you were speeding up and slowing down and changing your speed at every moment. Regardless of the speeding up or slowing down that took place during this path, your average velocity's still just gonna be four meters per second to the right; or, if you like, positive four meters per second.

[snip]

The instantaneous velocity at 1950 feet is irrelevant to the calculation of the average velocity over the range 0 to 1950 feet.

beyond any possible rounding error

LOL. It's not a rounding error Professor DonkeyChan.

How you coming along with that Average Velocity for the 75 foot segment ending at 1950 ft?

How you coming along with that Average Velocity for the 75 foot segment ending at 1950 ft?

It came along quite well. Anything that travels 1950 feet in 1.06 seconds travels an average velocity of 2122.64 feet per second. The formula is distance divided by time.

How are you coming along with your bullet going splat at ~520 feet ground distance from Mandalay Bay?

How did you work out that negative 33º angle?

Side a represents the vertical height of Paddock's vantage point. At the 32nd floor, and at 10.9 feet per floor, (32-1) x 10.9 = 338 feet.

The VxH specified shooting angle was -33°. This should probably be expressed as a positive angle of declination. Not all ballistic calculators will even accept a negative angle value, but specify 0 to 90 degrees.

For another calculator, see:

http://gundata.org/blog/post/223-ballistics-chart/

It appears that VxH drew an imaginary horizontal line d at a vertical height of 338 feet from the ground, and an imaginary 338 foot line e down to the ground, bringing into view a rectangle with a mirror image triangle to that above.

VxH guessed 33º as the acute angle formed at the junction of sides c and imaginary side d at point B. VxH guessed very wrongly.

With a specified shooting angle of 33º at the junction of lines c and d, the angle made by sides c and b would also be 33º, and angle ß, made by sides a and c would be 57º. (The right angle at point A is 90º. The other two angles must add up to 90º.)

With side a being 338 feet, side b would be 520.4743578 feet, and side c would be 620.5944 feet.

As may be seen, disregarding gravity, if the bullet flew downward at the specified 33º from a height of 338 feet, it would fly a straight line of sight path into the ground at ~520 feet from the Mandalay Bay at ground level.

Calculating the bullet velocity after that point may be difficult, even with secret Klingon math.

>>The formula is distance divided by time.

And when you don't have data for time with enough precision - what then, professor Donkeychan?

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic- trajectory-chart.php? pl=223+RemingtonLVA&presets=223+RemingtonLVA~%5BChart+Label%5D~G1~0.300~ 62~3240~ 100~1.5~-33~0~0~true~2000~72~29.92~21~true~1000~25&df=G1&bc=0.300&am p;bw=62& amp; amp; amp; amp;vi=3240&zr=100&sh=1.5&sa=-33&ws=0&wa=0&cfa=on&am p;alt=0& amp; amp; amp; amp;tmp=72&bar=29.92&hum=21&ssb=on&cr=1000&ss=1&char tColumns =Range~ft%3BTime~s%3BVel%5Bx%2By%5D~ft%2Fs&lbl=Test&submitst=+Create +Chart+

Range	Time	Vel[x+y]
(ft)	(s)	(ft/s)
1875	0.81	1658
1878	0.81	1656
1881	0.82	1654
1884	0.82	1652
1887	0.82	1650
1890	0.82	1648
1893	0.82	1646
1896	0.83	1644
1899	0.83	1642
1902	0.83	1640
1905	0.83	1638
1908	0.83	1636
1911	0.83	1634
1914	0.84	1632
1917	0.84	1630
1920	0.84	1628
1923	0.84	1626
1926	0.84	1624
1929	0.85	1622
1932	0.85	1621
1935	0.85	1619
1938	0.85	1617
1941	0.85	1615
1944	0.86	1613
1947	0.86	1611
1950	0.86	1609

This should probably be expressed as a positive angle of declination.

BZZZT! Probably not, since using 0.33 instead of -0.33 produces a slower velocity:

(0.33) 1950 0.89 1489

(-0.33) 1950 0.86 1609

By 1950 feet, VxH has "rounded off" 0.86 and amazingly calculated, by secret methodology,

Bzzzt:

Nope no secret.

https://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi? ArtNum=53046&Disp=102#C102

You just can't/won't read. That's not a secret either.

This should probably be expressed as a positive angle of declination.

BZZZT! Probably not, since using 0.33 instead of -0.33 produces a slower velocity:

There is no 33 degree angle involved. Using your trajectory, Paddock would have come closer to shooting off his big toe than hitting anywhere in the festival venue.

Learn to read:

Declination is downward. Negative 33 degrees inclination is the same as 33 degrees declination. It is the difference between your preferred -33 degrees upward and 33 degrees downward.

33 degrees downward points down. Negative 33 degrees downward points up.

It is like walking negative 33 feet east is walking 33 feet west.

The VxH specified shooting angle was -33°. This should probably be expressed as a positive angle of declination. Not all ballistic calculators will even accept a negative angle value, but specify 0 to 90 degrees.

For another calculator, see:

http://gundata.org/blog/post/223-ballistics-chart/

The gundata entry specifies "Shooting angle (0..89)." Stick a negative value in there and it will reject.

As there is no such thing as a triangle with negative angles, the values for every angle of a triangle are positive values.

In a triangle with sides -3 and -4, a² + b² = c² would yield a hypotenuse of positive 5.

BZZZT! Probably not, since using 0.33 instead of -0.33 produces a slower velocity:

(0.33) 1950 0.89 1489

(-0.33) 1950 0.86 1609

The data available at the links shows the only data change between my two charts is one is -33 and the other is 33. Not so for the chart you just created with yet another time calculation. You changed the input data.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=75dcb734

-33 degrees

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/images/trajectory/ballistic_trajectory_chart_75dcb734.png

This chart made with the original -33 data, shows the bullet rise above the original altitude, and remain above that altitude, for over 300 yards. This is an amazing feat for a bullet shot on a steep downward angle.

- - - - - - - - - -

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=fd15e1b9

33 degrees

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/images/trajectory/ballistic_trajectory_chart_fd15e1b9.png

Amazingly, when the angle is changed from -33 to 33, the flight path does not change, according to your calculator.

- - - - - - - - - -

When your calculator permits you to enter ridiculous data, it provides you with ridiculous results.

As one may observe, it provides the precise same flight trajectory, whether at 33 or -33. When fired at 33 degrees downward, the bullet goes upward and remains above the original location for over 300 yards.

The data available at the links shows the only data change to be -33 to 33.

The time for 650 yards/1950 feet is 0.86 in either instance. The average velocity for any object that travels 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds is 1950/0.86 = 2267.4418 ft/sec.

- - - - - - - - - -

YOUR DATA WITH A NEW TIME SHOWS YOU ALTERED THE INPUT DATA.

And your flight trajectory chart for -33 degrees featuring a new time

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=81e7edd6

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/images/trajectory/ballistic_trajectory_chart_81e7edd6.png

Notice that with the projectile purported fired at a 33 degree downward angle, the projectile maintains its original altitude for about 150 yards.

Of course, in your derivation of data, you changed the properties of the chart:

Drag Function: G1
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.300
Bullet Weight: 62 gr
Initial Velocity: 3240 fps
Sight Height : 1.5 in
Shooting Angle: -33°
Wind Speed: 0 mph
Wind Angle: 0°
Zero Range: 100 yd [Was 25 yd/75 feet]
Chart Range: 1000 yd[Was 750 yd]
Maximum Range: 50002 yd [Was 750 yd/2250 ft]
Step Size: 1 yd [Was 25 yd/75 ft]

Corrected For Atmosphere
Adjusted BC: 0.307 [was 0.300]
Altitude: 0 ft [was 2000 ft]
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 72° F
Relative Humidity: 21%
Speed of Sound: 1130 fps

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

To see the prior input data, just look:

As for your magic ability to fire rounds down at 33º, and have them either rise or maintain altitude for hundreds of yards,

The formula is distance divided by time.

And when you don't have data for time with enough precision - what then, professor Donkeychan?

By the way, if the given time and distance data was imprecise, what was used to calculate the instantaneous velocities?

[VxH at #175] LOL. It's not a rounding error Professor DonkeyChan.

If the given data is not subject to a rounding error, then it is totally accurate and precise, distance/time works fine, and your bogus calculated data is bullshit.

If the given data is subject to a rounding error, then it is accurate ± 0.005, in which case using distance/time works to define the possible range of average velocity within the rounding factor, and this also proves your bogus calculated data is bullshit.

By 1950 feet, VxH has "rounded off" 0.86 and amazingly calculated, by secret methodology,

Bzzzt:

Nope no secret.

The given time is 0.86.

[nolu chan #137]

By 1950 feet, VxH has "rounded off" 0.86 and amazingly calculated, by secret methodology, the stated flight time to his own preferred 0.82621.

That is VxH bullshit. Not only wrong but impossible on its face.

[VxH]

    1950	0.86	1609

Now tell us, Professor DonkeyChan - from the data provided, what is the average Velocity for the 75 ft segment ending at 1950 ft (1950ft, being the point at which, BTW, the instantaneous velocity is 1609fps)?

The average velocity of any object covering 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds is 1950/0.86 = 2267.4419 feet per second. It could be a flying refrigerator. If it goes 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds, the average velocity is 2267.4419 seconds.

The object could have sped up and slowed down between 0 and 1950 feet in any manner and it makes no difference. If the object covers the 1950 feet in 0.86 seconds, the average velocity for the 1950 foot distance is 2267.4419 seconds.

Recall the Khan Academy video you previously referenced:

https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/one-dimensional-motion/displacement-velocity-time/v/instantaneous-speed-and-velocity

Video transcript

- [Instructor] Pretend you are a physics student. You are just getting out of class. You were walking home when you remembered that there was a Galaxy Wars marathon on tonight, so you'd do what every physics student would do: run. You're pretty motivated to get home, so say you start running at six meters per second. Maybe it's been a while since the last time you ran, so you have to slow down a little bit to two meters per second. When you get a little closer to home, you say: "No, Captain Antares wouldn't give up "and I'm not giving up either", and you start running at eight meters per second and you make it home just in time for the opening music. These numbers are values of the instantaneous speed. The instantaneous speed is the speed of an object at a particular moment in time.

And if you include the direction with that speed, you get the instantaneous velocity. In other words, eight meters per second to the right was the instantaneously velocity of this person at that particular moment in time.

Note that this is different from the average velocity. If your home was 1,000 meters away from school and it took you a total of 200 seconds to get there, your average velocity would be five meters per second, which doesn't necessarily equal the instantaneous velocities at particular points on your trip.

In other words, let's say you jogged 60 meters in a time of 15 seconds. During this time you were speeding up and slowing down and changing your speed at every moment. Regardless of the speeding up or slowing down that took place during this path, your average velocity's still just gonna be four meters per second to the right; or, if you like, positive four meters per second.

[snip]

#140. To: nolu chan (#139)

The formula is distance divided by time.

And when you don't have data for time with enough precision - what then, professor Donkeychan?

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?pl=223+RemingtonLVA&presets=223+RemingtonLVA~%5BChart+Label%5D~G1~0.300~62~3240~100~1.5~-33~0~0~true~2000~72~29.92~21~true~1000~25&df=G1&bc=0.300&bw=62&vi=3240&zr=100&sh=1.5&sa=-33&ws=0&wa=0&cfa=on&alt=0&tmp=72&bar=29.92&hum=21&ssb=on&cr=1000&ss=1&chartColumns=Range~ft%3BTime~s%3BVel%5Bx%2By%5D~ft%2Fs&lbl=Test&submitst=+Create+Chart

Below is the bogus input data presented for this chart [boldface added]:

Drag Function: G1
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.300
Bullet Weight: 62 gr
Initial Velocity: 3240 fps
Sight Height : 1.5 in
Shooting Angle: -33°

Wind Speed: 0 mph
Wind Angle: 0°
Zero Range: 100 yd
Chart Range: 1000 yd
Maximum Range: 50002 yd
Step Size: 1 yd

Corrected For Atmosphere
Adjusted BC: 0.33
Altitude: 2000 ft
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 72° F
Relative Humidity: 21%
Speed of Sound: 1130 fps

The data actually attached to this new bullshit chart is shown below, as it appears at the link [boldface added]:

Drag Function: G1
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.300
Bullet Weight: 62 gr
Initial Velocity: 3240 fps
Sight Height : 1.5 in
Shooting Angle: -33°

Wind Speed: 0 mph
Wind Angle: 0°
Zero Range: 100 yd
Chart Range: 1000 yd
Maximum Range: 50002 yd
Step Size: 1 yd

Corrected For Atmosphere
Adjusted BC: 0.307
Altitude: 0 ft
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 72° F
Relative Humidity: 21%
Speed of Sound: 1130 fps

Below is the bogus input data presented for this chart [boldface added]:

YAWN.

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/

Has a bug where input values don't always populate from the parameters in the URL.

How ya comin' with that CURVE professor DonkeyChan?