This isn't triangulation.
The word “deal” has a definition. It implies mutual benefit and reciprocity as a result of a negotiation. The arrangement to which Donald Trump agreed with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer on Wednesday was no deal because there was no negotiation. By all accounts, Trump took the first offer Democrats made to secure an unconditional hike in the nation’s debt ceiling for just three months in exchange for disaster relief—with no spending offsets.
For the “Never Trump” conservative right, this amounts to the confirmation of a theory: Donald Trump is a closet liberal. Not really. Trump is no conservative—he’s essentially admitted as much—but his ideological affinities are tenuous at best. He’s done some conservative things, and he’s done some liberal things. Where Trump-skeptical conservatives have a point is their contention that pragmatism untampered by principle is dangerous. That proposition is going to get a serious real-world test when Republicans and Democrats head back to the negotiating table on the debt ceiling in November.
For liberals, the moment is urgent. Donald Trump just proved his self-proclaimed capacity to eschew tribal politics and cross the aisle. This is nothing less than an existential threat to one of the few things Democrats of all stripes agree on: anti-Trumpism. They cannot allow Trump to undermine their only message. “Muslim ban, his budget, Trumpcare, Arpaio, Charlottesville response,” wrote Center for American Progress President Neera Tanden. “These are many things, but they are not liberal.” Conservatives would debate the alleged conservatism of some of these things, but you can understand the liberal political imperative of pinning these controversial episodes on conservatism. “He is literally the conservative movement made flesh,” film producer Jordan Horowitz told me. Unless you were in a vegetative state for most of 2015 and 2016, this amounts to a wish fathering the thought.
The liberal reaction explains why the “anti-anti-Trump” faction of the Republican coalition has chosen to celebrate the wisdom of Trump’s impulsive spasm. Writing in The Federalist, Ben Domenech is even more convinced of Donald Trump’s advantageous political position than Trump himself. “The path of least resistance, the path of popularity for him, is to dismiss the demands of Congressional Republicans on virtually everything,” Domenech wrote, save for a few priority items for social conservatives and constitutional originalists. “In almost every other way, he has the opportunity to govern like Bill Clinton and triangulate a path through this screwed up political system.”
Domenech is right; Trump is stronger and more popular than congressional Republicans. He’s wrong, however, to suggest that Trump “doesn’t need” his party’s congressional majorities.
What Trump did is not Clintonian triangulation. In Bill Clinton’s case, triangulation meant adopting as many aspects of his opponent’s position as possible without fracturing his core coalition not to advance the interests of his political adversaries but to undermine them. In the process, Clinton robbed Republicans of sources of political cohesion and coherence. “Hegelian in concept: the idea of a thesis, an antithesis, and a synthesis,” former Clinton advisor Dick Morris told PBS. By picking “a la carte” from the most popular agenda items of both parties, Clinton preserved his personal popularity.
Triangulation was a boon to Bill Clinton himself but not Democrats or the progressive agenda his party’s ideological reformers sought. But even Bill Clinton was cautious not to undermine his party’s leaders. He was under no illusions that Republicans would somehow be better stewards of his presidency than the opposition party. By contrast, Donald Trump has cut the legs out from under the Republican Party’s congressional leadership to no discernible end.
House Speaker Paul Ryan and Majority Leader Mitch McConnell are surrounded by insurrectionary elements within their own caucuses. Managing the GOP conference is an exercise in herding cats. Buying time to negotiate a pro-growth tax code reform plan to mollify conservatives within the Republican conference frustrated over the lack of conservative reforms was the GOP leadership’s chief objective in negotiating a debt ceiling hike. Grumbling in the ranks is already deafening. Rumors of a mutiny are growing louder, and now leadership has no time to assuage the mutineers. Already thorny intramural GOP negotiations over tax code reform and, yes, health care reform just became that much more difficult. And Democrats won new leverage for themselves when the debt limit comes up again and their party’s votes are needed for yet another clean hike just one week before Christmas.
If Donald Trump thinks he can govern without Republicans, he’s going to be reminded rather quickly that the only thing that unites Democrats is the prospect of seeing him humiliated. There is no concession he could make, no position he could adopt, that would compel Democrats to abandon the only cohesive principle keeping the post-Obama Democratic coalition together. Schumer and Pelosi understand triangulation; they were witness to it firsthand. They will entertain the president it only insofar as it gives them the power to undermine Trump when it suits them.
Democrats will give the president all the rope he needs to hang himself, and the president seems not to see the trap into which he’s walking. Trump’s ego will outlast this presidency. The conservative agenda might not.
#1: tpaine To: Willie Green (#0)
tpaine posted on 2017-09-11 12:09:06 Reply Private Reply
#2: Willie Green To: tpaine (#1)
What are you flatulating about, dumbass?
Commentary Magazine is a neocon rag & Noah Rothman is whiney little neocon wannabe.
Willie Green posted on 2017-09-11 12:25:55 Reply Private Reply
#3: Tooconservative To: tpaine (#1)
The fault is not with Willie, it's with Trump. This is what you get from political amateurs and from those, like Trump, who crave to see any kind of favorable headline about them in the Slimes.
Everyone agrees that he got rolled by Pelosi and Schumer and got nothing in return for it. He hurt the party by undercutting the GOP Congress for no good reason.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 12:48:46 Reply Private Reply
#4: Vicomte13 To: Tooconservative (#3)
He hurt the party for a very good reason: the party refuses to follow his lead, refuses to pass legislation - such as the repeal of Obamacare they've campaigned on for 8 years, and refuses to unite to shut down the special prosecution of Trump (while simultaneously refusing to investigate the Clintons).
The purpose of the Republicans seems to be to batten down the hatches, endure Trump, make his presidency unsuccessful, in order to preserve the Bush family power structure.
So Trump decided to throw the issues into their lap, and force them to either act, right before the election, to fulfill their promises and make their positions clear, or refuse to act, and thereby also make their positions clear.
Trump is the CEO. He is not willing to play games with a hostile and dithering board. He's forcing their hand. If they play their hand against Trump NOW - as they so very much want to - they will blow up in the elections, and Trump has demonstrated that he WILL work with the Democrats, and they with him. So the Congress has had complete control of the agenda taken away from them. The President, not the Republican Congress, is calling the shots. And President Trump will cut deals with Democrats to make what he wants a reality, so the Republicans are on notice: do what you promised now, or die in 2018.
The party hurt itself by being treacherous liars who never intended to do what the Trump train was elected to do. Trump has flushed them out. Now they will either act, by shifting decisively in Trump's direction, OR they will fail, but refusing to act, and be swept out in a motivated Democrat hurricane, while Republican voters stay home.
There was a very good reason to undercut the GOP Congress: they have proven faithless and worthless. Now they have to fight for their political lives and actually take positions that define them, in law, or refuse to (which also defines their position).
If Trump is right, and his popularity is based on populism, then the Republicans will sweep to re-election and extended power by giving Trump what he wants, but they will be destroyed by the American people if they either (a) do what they want, contrary to what Trump and the People want, or (b) refuse to do anything.
Trump can work with Democrats. Republicans can't. So if they don't want to lose Congress, they have to work with each other to pass things that the people want.
Trump's strategy is smart. He puts the pressure right on the Congressional Republicans: shit or get off the pot.
Vicomte13 posted on 2017-09-11 13:09:44 Reply Private Reply
#5: Tooconservative To: Vicomte13 (#4)
What are you babbling about?
Trump has been no help on repealing 0bamaCare, he has made it harder to pass.
Congress has no power over the special prosecutor that is employed by the DoJ. Sessions recused himself and his #2 appointed Mueller. How is that the fault of Congress in any way?
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 13:36:37 Reply Private Reply
#6: Vicomte13 To: Tooconservative (#5)
It is Congress' job to repeal and replace Obamacare. Congress is controlled by Republicans like you. They chose to fail, just like Sessions chose to fail and Sessions continues to fail by not un-recusing himself and ending the charade, and firing his #2 for good measures.
You Republicans love game playing. The jig is up. Trump has given you three months to deliver. Stop whingeing and get it done: you control both Houses of Congress and the Supreme Court and 35 States, and Trump will sign whatever you send up.
You people have endless excuses. Nobody is listening to you anymore. Either do it or die in the next election.
Vicomte13 posted on 2017-09-11 13:48:28 Reply Private Reply
#7: Tooconservative To: Vicomte13 (#6)
Oh, noes! Are you suggesting we might lose Republican seats in rock-ribbed Connecticut or NYC? The horror!
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 13:57:33 Reply Private Reply
#8: goldilucky To: Vicomte13 (#6)
goldilucky posted on 2017-09-11 17:57:14 Reply Private Reply
#9: A K A Stone To: Vicomte13 (#6)
How many republicans voted against repeal?
You like to spin things.
A K A Stone posted on 2017-09-11 18:40:37 Reply Private Reply
#10: A K A Stone To: Tooconservative (#7)
A K A Stone posted on 2017-09-11 18:43:04 Reply Private Reply
#11: Tooconservative To: A K A Stone (#10)
I suspect he isn't pro-life in any sense more meaningful than Anthony Kennedy is pro-life. Or meaningfully Catholic.
Even if the GOP went whole-hog for single-payer Medicare-for-all like a pack of Bernie bros, Vic would still find other reasons to hate the GOP and call down curses on their heads. He's made this pretty clear over the years. I've been reading his posts for almost 20 years now, first at TOS, then LP, now here at LF.
He does get angry if we won't play his rhetorical games about politics which he likes to disguise as religious in character in order to slur us.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 19:41:54 Reply Private Reply
#12: A K A Stone To: Tooconservative (#11)
A K A Stone posted on 2017-09-11 19:44:23 Reply Private Reply
#13: tpaine To: Tooconservative (#3)
The fault is with socialists, like you and willy, who seem to believe that our republic is best served by a supposedly two party system controlled by political hacks.
We're long overdue for patriotic amateurs to rid the swamp of you slimes.
tpaine posted on 2017-09-11 22:24:47 Reply Private Reply
#14: Tooconservative To: tpaine (#13)
Spin it any way you want.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 22:47:14 Reply Private Reply
#15: tpaine To: Tooconservative (#14)
Your Trump delusions are leading you to jump to conclusions. -- Time will tell if using the rube dems to kick some neo con ass works.
Trump will win no matter which way the ploy plays.
tpaine posted on 2017-09-12 04:11:38 Reply Private Reply
#16: Tooconservative To: tpaine (#15)
Sieg heil!
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-12 08:05:47 Reply Private Reply
#17: tpaine To: Tooconservative (#16)
Unable to refute that you are a conservative in name only, you play the Nazi card against me?
Whatta pathetic clown.
tpaine posted on 2017-09-12 08:17:09 Reply Private Reply
#18: Tooconservative To: tpaine (#17)
And, yes, this kind of mindless hero worship is exactly what the Nazis sought to inculcate in the German citizenry. It's the whole Führerprinzip which was the underpinning of the Hitler dictatorship and therefore the Third Reich itself.
Here, repeat after me: "Der Donald can do no wrong! Der Donald can do no wrong!"
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-12 08:27:54 Reply Private Reply
#19: tpaine To: Tooconservative (#18)
I am hardly a true believer in anyone. I do believe however, in the principles of our constitutional republic. -- And I'll support those who work to those same ends. -- So far, Trump qualifies.
Feel free to rave on about Nazism. It suits you.
tpaine posted on 2017-09-12 09:02:35 Reply Private Reply
#20: Willie Green To: tpaine (#13)
You're so full of bullcrap it's unbelievable...
I gave up on the two-party system 25 years ago when I voted for Perot... And if anything, it's only gotten worse...
So don't go projecting that crap onto me just because I reject Trump as an anti-Establishment Savior... That blowhard conartist is nothing but a corrupt Putin sockpuppet.
And piss on our "republic" too... If I could wave a magic wand to change our flawed system, I'd probably choose some kind of multi-party Parliamentary system where some kind of compromise would have to be made to form a govenment... And a vote of "no confidence" would instantly dissolve that coaltion and prompt new elections (instead of having to wait 2, 4 or 6 years to vote the assholes out)
Willie Green posted on 2017-09-12 09:59:31 Reply Private Reply
#21: tpaine To: Willie Green (#20)
Thanks willy, you never fail to confirm your fundamental idiocy.
tpaine posted on 2017-09-12 11:27:12 Reply Private Reply
#22: Liberator To: tpaine (#1)
Or...he's just plain deranged.
Rarely has a poster gone over the edge of obvious insanity to this degree.
Liberator posted on 2017-09-14 11:52:38 Reply Private Reply
#23: Liberator To: Tooconservative (#18)
TC...tsssk.
Really waaay off the mark. But then you were never a Trump fan.
In brief, the main reason Trump cannot implement his MAGA agenda is OBSTRUCTION AND COLLUSION by those GOPers you used to support. The other reason will be poo-pooed, but here goes anyway:
It is obvious to observers like me that Trump is being blackmailed and threatened by the NWO Elite Shadow gubmint and the machination they now own. (Of course you deny that there's even such an entity as "NWO" or associate orgs whose goal is world dominance -- WHICH btw, includes THE VATICAN.)
Liberator posted on 2017-09-14 11:59:53 Reply Private Reply
#24: Liberator To: Vicomte13, Tooconservative (#6)
Bottom Line: The GOPe is a paper-party, a fraud.
Liberator posted on 2017-09-14 12:02:03 Reply Private Reply
#25: Liberator To: Tooconservative (#14)
In baseball terms, it may be a "Player To Be Named Later."
McConnell and Ryan have openly defied Trump, hung him out to dry and obstructed his agenda. Or are you going to deny it??
Perhaps the Dems (YES DEMS!) are willing to compromise with Trump.
I hope Trump burns down the GOP for their game-playing. The man will hold sway in many coming GOP elections. Just watch him.
Liberator posted on 2017-09-14 12:07:25 Reply Private Reply
#26: Liberator To: Willie Green, tpaine, tooconservative, AKA Stone, Vicomte13, redleghunter, Stoner (#0)
"There was no negotiation."
If the author of "The Art of The Deal" just gifted the Dems for NO reason, then dramatic events are occurring behind the scenes - and only one result is good.
Possible reasons for this "deal":
1) Trump is going to embarrass McConnell and Ryan -- the blowback falls on THEM, since THEY are the ones who flatly stated to all that MAGA would NOT be implemented. Perhaps Trump is trying to create a coup against these two rats and burn down the GOP.
2) There HAS been a deal struck with the Dems -- but McConnell and Ryan are not privy to the details.
3) As I've proffered earlier, Trump IS being blackmailed and threatened (ergo, the Globalist/NWO coup has now taken place.)
Liberator posted on 2017-09-14 12:20:56 Reply Private Reply
#27: Vicomte13 To: Willie Green (#20)
I'd choose a hereditary monarchy. Elections the way we do them are a waste of a lot of money every 2 years. Focused fraud, to maintain the general fraud.
Vicomte13 posted on 2017-09-14 16:20:23 Reply Private Reply
#28: Stoner To: Liberator (#26)
Interesting. Would you care to speculate what he is being blackmailed about, or threatened with ? Just your guess(s)
Stoner posted on 2017-09-14 23:33:16 Reply Private Reply
#29: buckeroo To: Liberator (#26)
NAW. You just cry/shit/whine in your pants over TRUMP. You always were a POM-POM GIRL with hairy legs and a lack of understanding how TRUMP could let America down.
buckeroo posted on 2017-09-14 23:42:40 Reply Private Reply
#30: nolu chan To: Willie Green (#0)
... there was a discussion, not a deal.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-15 01:43:49 Reply Private Reply
#31: Liberator To: Stoner (#28)
I have no reservations in my belief Trump has been warned and threatened to various degrees -- from nuanced to more subtle to overtly and directly that his agenda does not mesh with that of the PTB...
Consider the immediate and subsequent purges of Trump allies and illegal taps, authorizations, and monkey business (either invented, obtained or operated illegally) were in active mode *before* and immediately after his election. And frankly SINCE.
Furthermore, we have ALL witnessed countless incendiary words, acts, and misdeeds by GOPe leadership, elements of the "Deep State" rumblings (funny how the entity "Deep State" was NEVER mentioned till Trump), Dems, 0bama, and the Media that have proven a tacit carte blanche of criticism and degrees of clear sedition are extended to ALL who oppose Donald Trump. It is why Antifa and BLM were and still ARE allowed by local, state, and Alphabet agys to fester and create havoc with impunity.
Stoner -- as to "blackmail," it's more or less the same manner of threats are made in-famous in movies: "Gee...Nice life/wife/kid/stuff/empire you got there; Be a shame if anything happened to you/them/it." This all would explain Trump's dramatic altered/modified MAGA agenda.
IF there was ANY doubt to the extend of collusion and conspiracy against Trump, I suppose it was the day supposed stout "ally" AG Sessions recused himself from the whole phony "Russia" narrative. To anyone paying any attention to politics, wasn't that THE day we could point at as the day The Elites LOUDLY flexed their muscle and told us powerful elements were pulling ALL the strings in just one of countless and obvious signals to Trump and the rest of us: "THIS President is "President" IN NAME ONLY! Bwaahaa!!"
Liberator posted on 2017-09-15 18:27:57 Reply Private Reply
#32: Liberator To: nolu chan, Choo-Choo Willie (#30)
Yes, but then the hopelessly brainwashed and addled always see/hear/feel whatever delusion they are programmed to perceive.
Liberator posted on 2017-09-15 18:30:07 Reply Private Reply