SALT LAKE CITY Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill has requested the FBIs assistance in the investigation into the arrest of a Utah nurse who refused to allow a blood draw from an unconscious patient without following proper procedure.
In a statement released Thursday, Gill said his office officially requested the FBI investigate: any and all individuals involved in the chain of conduct arising from the incident at the University of Utah Hospital on July 26, 2017 for any Civil Rights Violations under the color of authority.
Gill said he requested the FBIs help due to events beyond a mere criminal investigation.
#28: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#5)
Didn't one of those decisions concern exigent circumstances? How is that relevant to this case? It isn't. So why are you citing it?
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-08 09:50:43 Reply Private Reply
#29: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#28)
Yes, it did. And thank you for asking.
But it downplayed the use of exigent circumstances which was routinely offered as an excuse for warrantless blood draws. I think it was Sotomayor who wrote the majority opinion on that particular point.
So that hurts your entire argument.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-08 09:56:31 Reply Private Reply
#30: Pinguinite To: misterwhite (#27)
What for? She's completely within her legal and moral right to sue and use the money she wins for her own personal enjoyment (though it wouldn't surprise me if she instead donates it to a real charity).
Pinguinite posted on 2017-09-08 10:34:59 Reply Private Reply
#31: misterwhite To: Pinguinite (#30)
So I can cite your stupid "She's taking the high road to make the world a better place" and rub it in your f**king face.
"(though it wouldn't surprise me if she instead donates it to a real charity)."
I'll mark this one for later reference also. What for? Same reason.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-08 11:07:14 Reply Private Reply
#32: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#29)
Did law enforcement cite exigent circumstances is this case as their legal reason to draw blood? No. Yet you reference a USSC ruling on exigent circumstances. Why? Other than you're an idiot.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-08 11:10:54 Reply Private Reply
#33: Hondo68 To: Tooconservative (#20)
You've got a rotating power source, why go electric? Belt drive from the engine crankshaft to the agitator/wringer gearbox and pump. I was like maybe 4 or 5 years old at the time we had that washing machine in the mid '50s. I remember the side loading electric one we had later much better. It had a door on top to add the detergent, and you could see the side of the tub turning down there. WoooHoo!!!
Maytag gear jammer...
This is a vintage 1920's Maytag washing machine with wringer powered by a 2-stroke engine. In rural America where there was no electricity, this made cleaning clothes a lot easier that it had been before. Another Maytag engine is running on the ground, and a "hit and miss" engine is running next to the washer. Taken August 27, 2011 at the Shelby Iron Works Engine Show in Shelby, Alabama (near Birmingham).
Hondo68 posted on 2017-09-08 12:01:35 Reply Private Reply
#34: Pinguinite To: misterwhite (#31)
hahahaa
You are so cute when you're angry.
I didn't say she wouldn't sue. I said she was at least hesitant to sue.
If she does decide to sue, then it won't invalidate that observation.
I said "it wouldn't surprise me" if she donated any damage awards to charity. She may decide instead to throw a big party for all her medical friends featuring a cop pinata that strongly resembles Payne. If so, more power too her.
Pinguinite posted on 2017-09-08 13:30:07 Reply Private Reply
#35: misterwhite To: Pinguinite (#34)
And therein lies the nobility.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-08 14:45:05 Reply Private Reply
#36: nolu chan To: misterwhite, Toooconservative, Pinguinite (#26)
I agree with that assessment, but it may inevitably go beyond Wubbels to a class action. The extent of the violation is not yet clear. The FBI was not called in for help with one misdeed by one cop.
He was acting unlawfully in violation of the U.S. Constitution, and U.S. Supreme Court precedent which had struck down, as null and void, all State laws and regulations or procedures repugnant to that precedential opinion.
The officer's actions were unconstitutional and resort to null and void law, regulations or procedures offer no help to make his actions lawful.
A directive from his lieutenant may mitigate his problems, but amplify the problems of the municipality of Salt Lake City.
In addition, the officer's demands appear clearly in violation of HIIPA laws. If this has occured in multiple past cases, SLC could be facing a class action civil suit, appeals of criminal convictions, and more criminal complaints.
Recall that TWO officers have been placed on administrative leave. Officer Payne did the arrest. Lieutenant Anonymous apparently called for the arrest.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/02/utah-cop-put-on-leave-after-bodycam-video-shows-him-cuffing-nurse-for-refusing-to-draw-blood-on-unconscious-patient.html
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-08 15:19:50 Reply Private Reply
#37: nolu chan To: Tooconservative (#25)
The FBI investigates. The Justice Department prosecutes.
Salt Lake City Lieutenant James Tracy, who reportedly called for the arrest was placed on administrative leave, in addition to Salt Lake City Detective Jeff Payne. It was the Salt Lake City mayor who apologized, not Logan. The Logan PD is not on the hook for this, and they are not volunteering to climb on board.
Logan called the SLC police to request a blood draw. Logan did not request or demand that any law be disregarded in the taking. That is Logan's story and they are sticking with it. SLC owns this mess.
The nurse showed the Salt Lake City detective a copy of the agreement between the police and the hospital that such involuntary blood draws would not happen. Based on the existence of such an agreement, I will bet a cookie that this has happened before, and the agreement was used to avoid legal catastrophe. It appears that Lt. Troglodyte and Deputy Dawg did not get the word, or they are just free thinkers with a badge.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2017/09/06/mayor-biskuski-police-officer-who-arrested-nurse-should-immediately-have-been-put-on-leave-br/
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-08 15:49:51 Reply Private Reply
#38: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#36)
Isn't that standard in these types of cases? Or do you read something sinister into it?
"The FBI was not called in for help with one misdeed by one cop."
It's possible they're simply investigating a federal violation of her civil rights. Or it could be Russian interference.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-08 16:10:04 Reply Private Reply
#39: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#38)
Did you happen to notice one is a Lieutenant? Read: Salt Lake City liability.
They could be investigating Keckistan, but I doubt it.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-08 20:55:57 Reply Private Reply
#40: Tooconservative To: nolu chan (#37)
Damn, that's cold. : )
They do have incentive to try to keep their hands clean.
You have to wonder if they did eventually find a way to get the blood via other means.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-09 02:53:22 Reply Private Reply
#41: nolu chan To: Tooconservative (#40)
I wonder if there is any other legal means to do it. Even if there were a medical draw, I don't see how he legally gets it without a warrant.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-09 03:57:19 Reply Private Reply
#42: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#39)
So they BOTH thought the law and police department policy were on their side. WTF is going on here? Why are these two being blamed for acting within accepted protocol?
FIRE THEM!! TAKE THEIR HOUSES!! THROW THEM IN JAIL!!
That's what I'm reading.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-09 09:13:43 Reply Private Reply
#43: buckeroo To: misterwhite (#42)
Don't get hysterical, misterwhite. We need you performing your otherwise cool, collected unmistakable love for the UBER AMRERICA POLICE STATE! It is what you do best to ensure I have lots of laffs.
buckeroo posted on 2017-09-09 09:19:27 Reply Private Reply
#44: misterwhite To: buckeroo (#43)
Yeah. Sorry. I know you're all counting on me.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-09 09:28:34 Reply Private Reply
#45: buckeroo To: misterwhite (#44)
Your apologies are accepted.
Listen to me, it is important; this is critical stuff here and within the chit-chat channel that I am about reveal to you. If it weren't for you consistently begging for a POLICE STATE w/ UBER CAPABILITIES TO FUCK AMERICA UP EVEN MORE, there would be no point of viewing your posts.
buckeroo posted on 2017-09-09 09:38:53 Reply Private Reply
#46: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#42)
A jackass in power "authorizing" an unconstitutional act does not make it constitutional. It just leads to a criminal act. Deputy Dawg can always say he was just following orders, as that excuse has always worked well in the past.
If SLC wants to accept that unconstitutional searches were accepted protocol, then they should get ready to open their wallet very wide.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-09 16:08:33 Reply Private Reply
#47: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#46)
Then shouldn't that jackass be blamed?
And we're not talking about some isolated "act". This is Utah law and police department policy that's been used many times before without a problem.
"If SLC wants to accept that unconstitutional searches were accepted protocol, then they should get ready to open their wallet very wide."
Why SLC? Why not the State of Utah? It's their statute.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-09 17:52:21 Reply Private Reply
#48: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#47)
The Utah statute is legal and constitutional.
The brain dead misreading of the statute by the SLC lieutenant, the detective, and yourself yields an unconstitutional, criminal result. And, of course, massive liability for Salt Lake City who employs those two blockheads. SLC should consider hiring the nurse to babysit them.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-09 20:21:00 Reply Private Reply
#49: Tooconservative To: nolu chan (#48)
You have to wonder why they went so far over the line for an accident that occurred in Logan, UT, 81 miles outside their jurisdiction.
Their only involvement was trying to get blood for Logan (or UHP in my conspiracy theory).
I can't really imagine how or why they went so far in this case when it wasn't even their case to begin with.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-10 09:30:43 Reply Private Reply
#50: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#49)
You still gnawin' on that old bone?
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-10 10:41:35 Reply Private Reply
#51: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#48)
The one that said they can draw blood from an unconscious driver?
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-10 10:42:36 Reply Private Reply
#52: A K A Stone To: misterwhite (#51)
A K A Stone posted on 2017-09-10 10:47:51 Reply Private Reply
#53: misterwhite To: A K A Stone (#52)
I am citing the law which explains the behavior. Nothing evil in that.
You, on the other hand, have contributed zilch to these threads. Your posts consist of name-calling, lies, innuendos and incoherent ramblings.
Look around in your head and find two functioning brain cells to rub together and create a relevant thought. If you can't find them -- which, obviously you haven't so far -- stop embarrassing yourself with your stupid posts.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-10 10:56:15 Reply Private Reply
#54: A K A Stone To: misterwhite (#53)
Besides Chan and tooconservative and even Vic alreadyndestroyed you. You're just to stuck where you are to admit or realize it.
A K A Stone posted on 2017-09-10 11:02:29 Reply Private Reply
#55: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#50)
You mean the old bone that an SLC detective and his supervisor violated a nurse's rights and placed her under false arrest while trying to violate an accident victim's 4th Amendment rights, all for an accident that didn't occur in SLC jurisdiction and when the there was no probable cause that the victim was an impaired driver?
Yes, that "old bone" is going to jump up and bite an SLC detective and his supervisor in the ass, real hard.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-10 11:09:20 Reply Private Reply
#56: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#55)
No. Your relentless pursuit of why things happened the way they did.
It could be that police departmental policy is that any vehicular accident involving a fatality gives probable cause to draw blood from an unconscious or dead driver. Perhaps that's the policy that's now changed.
Can't blame the cop for that.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-10 11:27:51 Reply Private Reply
#57: A K A Stone To: misterwhite (#56)
Yes we can lamer.
A K A Stone posted on 2017-09-10 11:30:14 Reply Private Reply
#58: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#56)
You're just making shit up out of thin air.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-10 13:05:34 Reply Private Reply
#59: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#58)
I'm stating possibilities, using words like "could be" and "perhaps".
You're the one making shit up with your "the detective and his supervisor violated a nurse's rights" and "placed her under false arrest" and "while trying to violate an accident victim's 4th Amendment rights" and "when the there was no probable cause that the victim was an impaired driver".
What's your plan -- to apologize later when the truth comes out or temporarily disappear from the forum?
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-10 17:42:14 Reply Private Reply
#60: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#59)
I say the nurse wins, pretty much across the board. Including if she files a lawsuit for a fat settlement from SLC PD.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-10 17:50:51 Reply Private Reply
#61: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#60)
Not if it goes to court. Not if we abide by the rule of law. Not if we instituted loser pays.
But *sigh*, none of that will happen. The police department and the city will cave under political correctness and social pressure which people like you will incorrectly interpret as an admission of malfeasance rather than what it really is -- a bribe to just shut up and go away.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-10 18:03:06 Reply Private Reply
#62: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#61)
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-10 19:58:15 Reply Private Reply
#63: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#62)
Merits schmerits. They might lose on the optics or on the emotional aspects, but legal merits? No.
I'm sure the police department will be able to point to dozens of prior instances where they drew blood without incident. They can point to state law. They can point to departmental policy. Both Detective Jeff Payne and his supervisor believed they were operating within legal parameters, even to the point where Payne's supervisor ordered the nurse arrested for obstruction.
The nurse didn't have the legal power to obstruct a police investigation. She exceeded her authority. For that she was briefly arrested. Briefly. Had SHE not resisted that arrest, things would have gone smoothly.
Afterwards, things could have been straightened out. If the state and the city and the police department and the supervisor and the detective were all wrong, the blood evidence couldn't be used at trial -- assuming there ever was one.
Keep in mind, that is the intent of fourth amendment protections -- to prevent evidence being used against you in a court of law. Plenty of time to sort this out.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-11 09:38:13 Reply Private Reply
#64: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#63)
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 10:34:46 Reply Private Reply
#65: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#51)
Your imagination knows no bounds. The actual statute is constitutional. Your imaginary content attributed to it is not.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-11 20:20:26 Reply Private Reply
#66: nolu chan To: Tooconservative (#49)
I have no actual information to add, but I can imagine why such a request could be made and pursued. Did the person running from the cops have some powerful connection? Could the accident be blamed on a drunk truck driver? That is just an imagining of what could impel such abberent behavior.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-11 20:24:18 Reply Private Reply
#67: nolu chan To: misterwhite, A K A Stone (#53)
Nope, you are citing a law that presumed consent to tests. It does not, and constitutionally cannot, authorized an invasive warrantless blood draw. You may have your license revoked, but the law does not permit an involuntary blood draw without a warrant, absent exigent circumstances. Alcohol dissipation cannot be considered exigent circumstances.
If the statute did provide for a forcible blood draw, which it does not, it would be unconstitutional, null and void, and you would be cited something which, in the eyes of the law, does not exist.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-11 20:31:32 Reply Private Reply
#68: Tooconservative To: nolu chan (#66)
Or impaired by prescription drugs or a medical condition.
I would bet they scoured his phone (or tried to) to discover if he had had any texting or phone calls prior to the accident. Some trucks are also equipped with in-cab cameras to record everything the driver does, though the fire did seem pretty extensive to recover much from the accident.
Of course, the truck driver remained in his lane. He did not swerve into oncoming traffic.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 20:32:16 Reply Private Reply
#69: Tooconservative To: nolu chan (#67)
I thought the Supremes told us that a warrantless blood draw due to exigency was to be determined on a case-by-case basis. But I'm not sure exactly what they meant by that in practical terms. Seemed kinda vague but IANAL.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 20:34:13 Reply Private Reply
#70: nolu chan To: misterwhite, Tooconservative (#63)
Keep in mind that it is the intent of the Fourth Amendment to forbid and prevent unlawful searches and seizures. It forbids the Legislature from enacting any legislation authorizing a misterwhite-approved unreasonable search.
If you read a statute to authorize such a search, you are reading the statute wrong.
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-11 20:39:15 Reply Private Reply
#71: Tooconservative To: misterwhite, nolu chan (#63)
What investigation?
Logan PD, perhaps trying to keep its hands clean, says it told SLCPD that it didn't matter if they got the blood after their initial request.
So what was SLCPD investigating? What was its legitimate authority to investigate an accident or collect any evidence in an accident that occurred 81 miles outside its jurisdiction and which involved no SLCPD at all and therefore no probable cause for blood draws or anything else?
SLCPD simply had no jurisdiction in this case at all.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 20:49:25 Reply Private Reply
#72: misterwhite To: Tooconservative (#71)
Why, the accident of course. Not paying attention?
"So what was SLCPD investigating?"
They were assisting Logan PD by sending their trained phlebologist to legally collect a blood sample from an unconscious driver who was transported to the hospital.
"Logan PD, perhaps trying to keep its hands clean, ..."
You can bet they want no part of this.
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-11 21:15:48 Reply Private Reply
#73: Tooconservative To: misterwhite, nolu chan (#72)
Not their investigation, not their turf, not their accident victim.
And Logan says they told them it was no problem if SLCPD didn't get a blood sample.
So you say. I'd like more info. No doubt, we will learn more in a few weeks. Probably when the FBI or SLC prosecutors file a case against Rotten Cop and his Rotten Supervisor who obviously conspired to deprive the driver of his 4th Amendment rights and tried to intimidate the nurse with a false arrest.
Recall the video of the arrest. Rotten Cop puts her in the car where she sat until Rotten Supervisor shows up five minutes later. Then we hear Rotten Supervisor saying that "she won't listen to me".
I think it is clear that the false arrest was leverage to get her to allow the blood draw even after the false arrest. That was what Rotten Supervisor was trying to do when he talked to her. Otherwise, he would have released her immediately when he got on the scene. Instead he was trying to persuade her to allow the illegal blood draw. They saw her as the key obstacle blocking them since she was head nurse of the burn unit. So they arrested her to try to intimidate her into allowing the illegal blood draw.
Hang 'em both.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 21:35:11 Reply Private Reply
#74: nolu chan To: misterwhite, Tooconservative (#63)
The fact is, you are absolutely clueless about you are talking about.
Missouri v. McNeely, S. Ct. 11-1425, 569 U.S. ____ (17 Apr 2013)
[footnotes omitted]
At 2: (Syllabus)
[nc] You have admitted there is no claimed exception of exigent circumstances. Thus, the principal applies that the proposed search, involved a compelled physical intrusion beneath McNeely's skin and into his veins to obtain a blood sample to use as evidence in a criminal investigation, required a search warrant.
Read it until you understand it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
At 4-11: (Opinion of the Court)
[nc] In the instant case there was time to get a warrant. The detective did not even try.
Schmerber is deprecated by McNeely and technology.
Clearly noted is,
And,
nolu chan posted on 2017-09-11 22:15:24 Reply Private Reply
#75: Tooconservative To: nolu chan (#74)
The trucker was transported first by ambulance, then by air ambulance from Logan to SLC's university hospital.
That had to take at least 2 hours. And no one tried to get a warrant, just to get the blood by intimidation.
Recall that Rotten Cop said on video, "they don't have PC (probable cause)". I'd like to know if they tried for a warrant with a judge and got turned down or if they knew they'd get shot down and just tried to intimidate the nurse instead.
Tooconservative posted on 2017-09-11 22:50:06 Reply Private Reply
#76: randge To: Tooconservative, All (#75)
Maybe it's time to take a momemt's thought for one of the forgotten victims in this misadventure. Ten bucks is not a lot of money:
www.gofundme.com/BillGray
randge posted on 2017-09-12 09:43:03 Reply Private Reply
#77: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#74)
Correct. But the court ruled that, "One recognized exception "applies when '''the exigencies of the situation" ..."
Gosh. That implies there are others, doesn't it? Otherwise the court would have ruled, "The only recognized exception "applies when '''the exigencies of the situation" ..."
But they didn't. You're acting as though they did. Tell me who's "clueless".
misterwhite posted on 2017-09-12 10:38:39 Reply Private Reply