Rand Paul: Insurance should be available for $1 a day

The way universal health care works is someone has to pay, this can be done with a levy on income, in New Zealand long ago they did it with a levy on postage, or it can be done with paying out of taxes, but none wants to pay more tax, well there is no free lunch someone has to pay. my suggestion is you legislate on what the maximum fee a doctor or a hospital can charge and then you will get affordable health care. Get all the free loaders out of the system, legislate the price of drugs. But you can't do it because your politicians are in hock to the lobbyists to big pharma, to big health care, to the AMA

"Rand Paul: Insurance should be available for $1 a day"

"National health expenditures will hit $3.35 trillion this year (2016), which works out to $10,345 for every man, woman and child."
-- pbs.org

OK, Rand. Then who pays the remaining $9,980 for every man, woman and child per year?

Then who pays the remaining $9,980 for every man, woman and child per year?

You assume, of course, that there will be no massive pressure exerted to force cost reductions. Other nations buy the same drugs we do for 90% less (check the price of snake antivenom, same product, same label, in Mexico vs. the USA for instance) and it's cheaper to fly to Narita Japan for an MRI (including the airfare and hotel) than to have one in the USA.

Endless "cost" increases are the result of expected subsidies. Competition imposed on the the medical care system, including enforcing price-fixing laws, will reduce expenditures dramatically. Botox, cosmetic surgery and LASIK have all declined in price dramatically - why? Because they're 'elective' and subsidized by neither insurance companies nor government, so they have to compete for customers.

Or would you prefer the 10-15% increases per year continue forever?

Typical.

Competition imposed on the the medical care system... will reduce expenditures dramatically. Botox, cosmetic surgery and LASIK have all declined in price dramatically - why? Because they're 'elective' and subsidized by neither insurance companies nor government, so they have to compete for customers.

Not only that, but competition in the insurance market will allow for different products such as various levels of catastrophic and genuine emergency insurance.

You assume, of course, that there will be no massive pressure exerted to force cost reductions.

It would have to be massive pressure -- diamond-producing pressure -- to get the average cost of $10,345 for every man, woman and child down to $365.

I agree costs can be reduced through competition. But not down to $365 per year.

Yea ...

Not one of you three Democrats have indicated the slightest knowledge of Rand Paul's position nor how he supports the headlined statement.

Typical.

Rand Paul explains why you should be able to get health insurance for $1 a day

Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) discussed how the free market would best lower insurance costs in an interview with MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Friday.

“What I’d like to do is legalize inexpensive insurance, and you should be able to get insurance for $1 a day. I mean, you really should,” Paul said. “The insurance companies make all the money; all of this is predicated upon still propping up the insurance companies.”

Paul explained how the free market would be best suited to lower insurance costs.

“The reason capitalism doesn’t work in healthcare is the consumer is disconnected from the product,” he said. “Consumers do not make decisions based on price in healthcare, except for a few exceptions.”

“Lasik surgery, when you want to get surgery to get rid of glasses, everybody asks the price,” Paul said. “The average consumer calls four different doctors. It’s a very sophisticated laser, million dollar laser, and yet the price has gone down by three- quarters over 15 years.”

“When you connect the consumer and the consumer cares about the price, guess what? The consumer will shop, and when the consumer shops, competition works,” said the senator.

“We’re not really doing that in health care,” Paul continued. “Most of health care has fixed prices. Medicare, fixed prices. Medicaid, fixed prices. And, even private insurance, no consumer shops for price.”

As one of four conservative senators opposed to the current bill as written, Paul says one of the primary reasons for their opposition to the Senate bill is that it would not significantly lower premium costs, while leaving too much of Obamacare in place.

Paul said that the Senate bill’s failure to address Obamacare’s subsidies to insurance companies proceeds with a trend of “bailing out” insurers.

“I want the bill to look more like a repeal bill. I promised people I was going to repeal it; I didn’t promise people that I was going to replace it with a federal program of bailing out insurance companies,” he said.

“I mean, we could do this for cars,” he added. “New cars are expensive. We could have a car stabilization fund.”

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/rand-paul-explains-why- you- should-be-able-to-get-health-insurance-for-1-a-day/

Legalize inexpensive insurance, and you should be able to get insurance for $1 a day.

The reason capitalism doesn’t work in healthcare is the consumer is disconnected from the product.

Consumers do not make decisions based on price in healthcare, except for a few exceptions.

Lasik surgery, when you want to get surgery to get rid of glasses, everybody asks the price. The average consumer calls four different doctors. It’s a very sophisticated laser, million dollar laser, and yet the price has gone down by three-quarters over 15 years.

When you connect the consumer and the consumer cares about the price, guess what? The consumer will shop, and when the consumer shops, competition works.

As to Rand Paul’s analogy that new cars are expensive. Well, “new-car transaction prices increase nearly 3 percent year-over-year in September 2016 according to Kelley Blue Book.”

There is plenty of competition in the new car industry and people certainly do shop around….yet, prices continue to increase year-after-year.

That’s Rand Paul’s “libertarian free market system”….eh?

It is amazing that some people even bother to continue listening to this guy …

A math lesson for socialist Gatlin and his Bernie Bros over at the Morning Joe

Government meddling drives up the cost of everything including Health Care and Automobiles!

You commies will never be able to understand free market capitalism.

The first one that comes to mind is that in a completely free market the healthy folks simply don’t buy healthcare plans as often as the sick ones do. The reason is simple, they feel they are less likely to get sick and therefore they’re less worried about the uncertainty of sickness and the problems it can cause.

So what logically and inevitably happens is that this drives up the cost of health insurance in order for the insurers to cover the costs of the sick they cover. Since this further drives the cost of health insurance up, it then prices out the healthy the insurers so desperately need to keep costs down.

The result is so easily predictable as it causes a vicious cycle to take over and eventually results in the whole free market system unraveling because there are too few healthy and less expensive folks to cover the costs of the sick and more expensive ones.

Why you will listen to person who has no board-certification as a ophthalmologist according to WAPO, never even finished college according to NPR and who now tries his hand at being a politician to pose as an expert on health care is an enigma.

If enough young healthy people would not buy subsidized insurance coverage under Obamacare, then what makes you think they will do so under a free market health care insurance program?

It is has been said that doing the same thing over again and expecting better result is stupid.

It is you libertarians who fail to understand that free market capitalism will never work for healthcare insurance.

What is there about this you don’t understand?

the whole free market system unraveling because there are too few healthy and less expensive folks to cover the costs of the sick and more expensive ones.

It is you libertarians who fail to understand that free market capitalism will never work for healthcare

Wealth spread! You're a commie.

Your socialized medicine scheme will force higher prices and lower quality at the point of a government gun.

A summary of the Gatlin/Trump plan, Commie Care

Ergo, since we have a societal belief to never allow any sick person to suffer, then the free market system which prices out the poorest in society is complicit in the cause of suffering. You must know, or start to realize, there are numerous documented studies that show were the poorest are also the sickest.

So, all this means that in your free market health care, needed health care will be denied to the very people who need it most.

What is there about this you cannot understand?

It is impossible to collectively pay for a prepaid service because demand is hugely elastic (who wouldn't take every advantage of a "free" service) and supply will necessarily be limited, first by the law of scarcity, and when that kicks in, by bureaucratic fiat deciding who gets what medical service.

Real insurance is cheap because it only covers the unforeseen emergencies and catastrophic illnesses. Regular checkups, minor illnesses, and visits for prescription monitoring are paid for out of pocket (or by a charitable group that is willing). Paying directly for services, known as "arms length transactions" have "invisible hand" benefit of buyer's vigilance -- looking for the best deal or service -- which causes medical services to compete for your business. This buyer induced competition not only drives down price, but drives up quality (or price / performance ratio).

This is what Sen. Rand Paul is advocating to an extent. He has also incorporated some social welfarism into his plan to accommodate those who are already dependent on the system*. BTW, he "dropped out" of the undergrad program at Baylor, short a few credits for a double major in Biology and English, when he was accepted into medical school. He is a graduate of Duke Medical School.

*Do you know the story of how the wild pigs were corralled without any fuss or great effort?

So, all this means that in your free market health care, needed health care will be denied to the very people who need it most.

This statement is based on a pay for play only, no charity, version of the free market. This is an issue that modern, mostly non-Christian (or worse, brain washed Calvinists) conservatives have caused. Prompted by a reaction to socialism, it is a classic Hegelian dialectic misdirection.

There are market solutions that include robust charitable "safety nets".

“I mean, we could do this for cars,” he added. “New cars are expensive. We could have a car stabilization fund.”

Or we could have a Cash For Clunkers program. Get people to sell perfectly good-running cars that have been paid off and go into debt to purchase a new one.

Here's the deal. SOMEONE has to pay the annual $3.35 trillion bill-- either the patient directly or through his insurance or through an employer's group insurance or through government programs.

If one person pays less than his fair share, everyone else must make up the difference. That is on top of what they're already paying for insurance and what they're paying in taxes to the government for those healthcare programs.

There is no way around it. Yes, we can reduce costs. But all that means is that hospital and doctors and pharmaceutical companies make less.

A summary of the Gatlin/Trump plan, Commie Care

You fail to realize there’s a constriction to access care in any free market health care program since the system works on one’s ability to pay for it. We know that it’s a problem when today the health care costs can hit thousands of dollars each year even amongst the most healthy.

Ergo, since we have a societal belief to never allow any sick person to suffer, then the free market system which prices out the poorest in society is complicit in the cause of suffering. You must know, or start to realize, there are numerous documented studies that show were the poorest are also the sickest.

So, all this means that in your free market health care, needed health care will be denied to the very people who need it most.

What is there about this you cannot understand?

A summary of the Gatlin/Trump plan, Commie Care

Gatlin and whitey: Socialized auto manufacturing (GM) BAD!

Socialized medicine GOOD!

Those two commies are a real hoot.

To: Gatlin/misterwhite, ---- You (two clowns) are equating insurance with a prepaid service. Understandable. That's how the prepaid packages have been sold, by calling them what they are not -- insurance.

It is impossible to collectively pay for a prepaid service because demand is hugely elastic (who wouldn't take every advantage of a "free" service) and supply will necessarily be limited, first by the law of scarcity, and when that kicks in, by bureaucratic fiat deciding who gets what medical service.

Real insurance is cheap because it only covers the unforeseen emergencies and catastrophic illnesses. Regular checkups, minor illnesses, and visits for prescription monitoring are paid for out of pocket (or by a charitable group that is willing). Paying directly for services, known as "arms length transactions" have "invisible hand" benefit of buyer's vigilance -- looking for the best deal or service -- which causes medical services to compete for your business. This buyer induced competition not only drives down price, but drives up quality (or price / performance ratio).

Notice that the poor boys are unable to respond, logically or otherwise.

*Do you know the story of how the wild pigs were corralled without any fuss or great effort?

Don't recall, please tell.

Notice that the poor boys are unable to respond, logically or otherwise.

In fairness, Gatlin did mention that the market would not cover all of the poor. Although she did not come up with an explanation as to how a government run service would be able cover everyone without denying services due to cost. Nor how the poor would fair better under that system than under a market system with tax incentives for charitable giving.

misterwhite is a quintessential Frank Burns character, pompously wrong so often that when he finally gets one right he preens for a week. He's back to his normal subpar effort on this thread.

*Do you know the story of how the wild pigs were corralled without any fuss or great effort?

Don't recall, please tell.

I'm surprised you don't recall. It was popular at FR back in our day. Anyway, here's the nutshell version:

Where there are wild pigs find a clearing and spread some corn on the ground. When the pigs discover it, keep refreshing it daily. They will soon get used to coming there for free food. Watch to see which direction they usually approach from then string some bobwiah along the opposite side. Any nervousness they have about that will soon abate in favor of the free food. Next string each side, waiting enough time between each one to allow them to get used to it. Finally string the approach side with a gate, leaving the gate open. The pigs will scramble over each other to get through the gate for their free meal. At which time you close the gate.

The may panic a little at discovering that they are trapped, but soon they go back to eating the free corn. They are so used to it that they have forgotten how to forage in the woods for themselves, so they accept their captivity.

Real insurance is cheap because it only covers the unforeseen emergencies and catastrophic illnesses.

Yep. That applies to car insurance, homeowner's insurance and health insurance.

A summary of the Gatlin/Trump plan, Commie Care

I guess importantly, unlike most free market systems where the markets actually produce meaningful substance innovations, it is in the health cares system we have that our government produces the most important of all innovations. We know, our should know, that our country is leader throughout the world in medical innovations.

This is not because of any libertarian free market health care system, it is because our government pumps billions and billions of dollars into health care research each year through the National Institutes of Health. It is a recognized fact that numerous drugs, clinical tests and medical devices that eventually are marketed and sold by the private sector originated in the HIH-fund labs.

A summary of the Gatlin/Trump plan, Commie Care

You are always long on posting memes, labels and calling names….but you are eternally short on actualities.

When you get sick and go to a doctor, how are you to know that the doctor has your best interest at heart or a capitalistic motive to pay for the 12 years training for the job. Can you be sure the doctor will not run you through a loop to drain bucks from your pocket?

If there’s a problematic situation which causes a conflict between your health and the doctor’s pocketbook and they are at odds, which takes priority? If you don’t know, then perhaps you should review this old article in The New Yorket by Jerome Groopman that showed how doctors’ interest and patients ‘ interest collided when it came to making a buck in the free market health care system.

Which of course is one more facet to show the result of a free market health care system can often be low quality health care at a high cost.

That’s all simple and easy to understand…..can you?

how are you to know that the doctor has your best interest at heart or a capitalistic motive to pay for the 12 years training for the job

You analyze the doctors behavior, and if he gives you a line of bull like Gatlin does, then you fire him and go to another doctor.

Obviously you don't have the cognitive ability to come in out of the rain so you keep voting for Juan McCrazy, and probably have a crooked doctor who fleeces the taxpayers on your behalf.

Trump desperately needs "a win" by cutting healthcare costs, so you'll most likely be eliminated soon as a financial liability, by the TrumpCare Death Panel.

Bye Buh!

You analyze the doctors behavior, and if he gives you a line of bull like Gatlin does, then you fire him and go to another doctor.

Okay, after you have been dragged from under the bus that hit you and you are lying unconscious on the table in the ER…..tell me exactly how you are going to do that.

Obviously you don't have the cognitive ability to come out in of the rain so you keep voting for Juan McCrazy, and probably have a crooked doctor who fleeces the taxpayers on your behalf.

Trump desperately needs "a win" by cutting healthcare costs, so you'll most likely be eliminated soon as a financial liability, by the TrumpCare Death Panel.

This thread and discussion here is about Rand Paul saying: “Insurance should be available for $1 a day.”

If you believe your “Libertarian God” then discuss how he can make this happen in a free market health care system….if you can.

It is you libertarians who fail to understand that free market capitalism will never work for healthcare

Your libertarian ideology rejects the federal government’s modern regulatory systems that protects people and places the task on individual consumers to determine whether the hamburger they are about to eat contains E. coli.

Taking your libertarian “do-it- yourself dogma” to health care is just unrealistic.

after you have been dragged from under the bus that hit you and you are lying unconscious on the table in the ER…..tell me exactly how

Rand Paul may yet save your sorry a$$ by ending socialized medicine. In a free market healthcare system, doctors will be hired and fired based on merit, so you'll receive excellent treatment is spite of the fact that you're a Bernie Bro.

Communist Bernie Bro Gatlin vs Rand Paul

Bernie Gatlin: "The system can offer".... Commies offer lousy health care!

If the entire health care system is placed on the libertarian free market, then you will find the vast majority of Americans are healthy and do not need or use health insurance. They will purchase none. Great numbers of Americans are young and feel they are invincible and would not even think about buying health care insurance under a free market system.

That multitude of individuals would flood the ER when the have a catastrophic illness or a sever accident where their medical bills would run into the hundred thousands of dollars. The VAST majority of these individuals have no savings, a documented fact.

So, who foots the bill? Either the hospital writes off the losses and drastically raises prices or the taxpayers get stuck. So. there is what your libertarian free market health system would look like. There is no cheap or free ride. There is no libertarian free market solution for health care.

Face it idiot….you libertarians live in a la la dreamland searching for a utopia that will never be there.

If your libertarian free market ideology is so great, then why are you garnishing only 3% of the vote and Americans are not lining up in droves loudly singing Hallelujah and praising “Glory to the Lord” we are saved from all worldly problems.

I can answer that.

The reason they are not, is that your libertarian ideology is nothing but bullshit talk where a few, a very small minority, of folks are looking for something to hide behind when they cannot accept and face reality and the something they have found….they call it libertarianism.

You libertarian idiots have about the same value as stink on shit.

There!!!!