On Cross, he took the 5th Amendment and refused to answer questions.

If a person takes the 5th, are we allowed to draw any inference from that action? You know, like assuming they're "a piece of trash"?

Det. Fuhrman did not take the fifth amendment in the presence of the jury so they could draw no inference whatever from what they did not know.

The jury could draw a negative inference from the unavailability of Fuhrman as a witness, pursuant to the explicit instructions of the Court.

The jury could adopt an informed opinion that Fuhrman was a liar, a perjurer, and a genocidal racist from the testimony of Det. Fuhrman, the testimony of Laura Hart McKinny, the taped statements of Fuhrman proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Fuhrman had lied to the jury, and the instruction of the Court that Fuhrman would no longer be available as a witness.

"Testimony indicates the glove was touched with a wet swab."

It was?!? Well, according to you that's a dumb idea, isn't it? After all, you DID say:

"That is pretty much the dumbest idea that I have seen. If you have an expert source to back you up on touch the evidence with a swab to see if it is wet, please present it."

If the condition of the glove (ie., if it's wet or dry) was significant, then why wasn't that checked out at the scene?

Cop #1: Hey. That glove appears moist and wet and sticky.
Cop #2: You're right. It looks shiny, too.
Cop #1: But wait a minute. I'm a detective and I know that blood should be dried by now.
Cop #2: Yeah. I'm a detective, too. That's why they send us to investigate murders.
Cop #1: Well, this is significant. Maybe we should have forensics test the blood.
Cop #2: Nah. We'll just say it "looked" wet.

Martz, with a degree in biology, was under investigation stemming from internal complaints about his bogus tests and unscientific testimony in the field of toxicology and explosives.

You going to bring up that shit? You want me to do the same with your Dr. Reiders -- who has a history of being wrong?

"purported Martz test result proved that Martz test was in error, or he was walking about with blood that would not clot."

Something was wrong. Martz was smart enough to realize something was wrong and took the extraordinary step to test his own blood to prove something was wrong.

The defense at the criminal trial did not produce that knife.

But it WAS produced by the defense. The gloves were not. Why not?

Well, we know why not. The gloves were already people's exhibit.

The defense at the criminal trial did not produce that knife.

But it WAS produced by the defense. The gloves were not. Why not?

The knife was not produced at the criminal trial by anybody. It provided zero evidence for the jury to consider. Remember, you are supposedly working feverishly to find the evidence that the prosecution produced which the criminal jury could have relied upon to return a verdict of guilty.

Bullshitting about extraneous material that was never part of the criminal trial just doesn't get it. Try harder.

The gloves were not. Why not?

Well, we know why not. The gloves were already people's exhibit.

If either you or the prosecution could have proved that, you would have evidence instead of bullshit.

The prosecution failed in its efforts to show that O.J. Simpson had ever bought, owned, or wore an Aris glove, black, brown, XL or any other size.

The prosecution produced a receipt for gloves purchased by Nicole Brown Simpson. Experts could not verify that the purchased gloves were the same gloves as the evidence gloves. There was no evidence provided that showed that O.J. Simpson ever owned or wore the purchased gloves, or what the size and color of the purchased gloves were.

Results from your magic 8 ball are not considered evidence.

If the prosecution wanted to established that O.J. Simpson wore the evidence gloves, all they had to do was prove it. They failed to do so.

The blatantly obvious reason you do not argue with evidence is that you do not have any, and you do not have any because the prosecution did not have any.

Martz, with a degree in biology, was under investigation stemming from internal complaints about his bogus tests and unscientific testimony in the field of toxicology and explosives.

You going to bring up that shit? You want me to do the same with your Dr. Reiders -- who has a history of being wrong?

You are welcome to try. The shit I brought up was quoted from a Department of Justice Special Report.

It is rather humorous watching you herniate yourself trying to rehabilitate the testimony of Martz in your rather obvious incorrect impression that he was a prosecution witness.

Let me disabuse you of that notion. Martz and his report were so bad for the prosecution that even though they retained his services, the prosecution never called upon Martz to testify at the criminal trial. It was the defense who forced Martz to take the stand during the defense case. Note that defense counsel Blasier questioned Martz on Direct, not Cross.

It was the prosecution who ran away from Martz, and it was the defence who put him on the stand after Rieders had testified.

Something was wrong. Martz was smart enough to realize something was wrong and took the extraordinary step to test his own blood to prove something was wrong.

The DoJ Special Report found Martz to be incompetent. In purporting to test his own blood, destroying all evidence of said test, and submitting an impossible result, something was indeed wrong. The DoJ found his record keeping, or lack thereof, unacceptable. The DoJ found Martz had an inadequate level of training in toxological issues and toxilogical analyses in the laboratory. Thje DoJ recommended that another qualified examiner review any analytical work by Martz to be used as a basis for future testimony. With specific reference to the O.J. case, the DoJ found, Martz was surprisingly unprepared for his testimony, and that Martz poorly represented the Laboratory and the FBI in this case.

Martz attempted to maintain that nobody knows how much EDTA was normally present in human blood. He allegedly tested his own blood, destroyed all evidence of said test, and claimed his blood test to the same amount of EDTA as evidence blood. His minor problem was that his test had a threshold of detection of EDTA in parts per million, and this ill-prepared and incompetent toxicologist with his degree in biology was mistaken in his belief that a level in parts per million was normal. The competent toxicological expert set the record straight that the normal level of EDTA in humans was 4 parts per billion, citing an EPA study and a Foreman and Trujillo study. Further, the toxicology expert Dr. Rieders testified that "a 2,000 parts per million EDTA in blood, the blood won't clot. People will bleed to death all over the place. It's absurd." That effectively dispatched a Marcia Clark brainfart.

Martz was not all that swift, as the DoJ Report documented. Something was wrong. Martz proved that he would and did submit a false report.

Indeed, Scheck and Neufeld had launched an attack against the FBI lab in general, in a series of cases. The outcome was that the science and research underpinning the FBI's DNA typing methodology was flawed, and the FBI tried, but failed, to prevent the release of data to prove it. FBI hair and fiber analysis was relegated to junk science. The FBI DNA standards were cleaned up. Hundreds of cases were shown to have been tainted by bogus evidence.

MS. CLARK: Let me show you another report. Now, the report that you just pulled out from your briefcase, sir, I'm going to cite you to a passage where it says, "Insight to amelioration AML, dredge undissolved solid." That's in your report, correct?

DR. RIEDERS: That's part of their report. That's part of the copy that I gave you.

MS. CLARK: This is the EPA report that you used to base your opinion on that the normal amount of EDTA that you'll find in blood or the maximum allowable amount in a normal healthy person would be in the parts per billion, correct?

DR. RIEDERS: This and the paper by Trujillo and foreman is--foreman is the other author.

MS. CLARK: Now, with respect to this report, sir, on which you just said you based your opinion from the EPA, you read that to allow for the maximum allowable amount in a normal person to be two parts per billion?

DR. RIEDERS: Right.

MS. CLARK: Right. Now, is it possible, sir, that you have a typo here that caused you to conclude there were two parts per billion as the maximum allowable when in fact, it is 1,000 times less, two parts per million as the maximum allowable amount in a normal healthy person?

DR. RIEDERS: It's possible that this is a typo, but this is--a 2,000 parts per million is absurd as I told you. The people would be bleeding to death at that level.

MS. CLARK: In other words, if this is the correct EPA report, you disagree with it?

DR. RIEDERS: Well, obviously. I mean, it's--obviously it's a typo in there because I can't imagine that the EPA would say that it's all right to run around with blood that won't clot.

MS. CLARK: Sir, you earlier just premised your person on the maximum allowable amount for a normal person on the EPA report, correct?

DR. RIEDERS: That's correct.

MS. CLARK: And in your report, it says two mg/ml?

DR. RIEDERS: Yes.

MS. CLARK: And you interpret that to mean two nanograms per milliliter?

DR. RIEDERS: Yes. That's the only one possible.

MS. CLARK: That's the only one possible from an ng as oppose to an mg, correct?

DR. RIEDERS: That's correct.

MS. CLARK: And so you determined that what the EPA was saying was the maximum allowable amount was two parts per billion, correct?

DR. RIEDERS: That they were saying what is consistent with their radioactive study, and that's what they say, yes. Sure. Makes sense.

MS. CLARK: But the radioactive study, sir, was not able to pick up EDTA in the blood, was it?

DR. RIEDERS: That's correct.

MS. CLARK: It gave no lower trace amounts that it was able to detect or measure in blood, did it?

DR. RIEDERS: I'm sorry?

MS. CLARK: That report back in the 50's of radioactive EDTA did not state any specific amount for anything detected in blood resembling EDTA; isn't that correct?

DR. RIEDERS: That's not correct.

MR. BLASIER: Your Honor, I object. I thought we weren't going into this. I mean I'm happy to.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CLARK: I can't--

THE COURT: Sustained.

MS. CLARK: What was the objection?

THE COURT: Court's previous ruling on this regard, that report. Proceed.

Dr. Rieders submitted an EPA report that cited a level of 2 mg/ml. Dr. Rieders' professional expertise allowed him to recognize the typo of mg for ng, the only thing scientifically reasonable. Agent Martz did not catch the typo, and his lack of expertise let him proceed as though it made sense. Agent Martz went on to dry lab a test of his own blood for which he claimed a result consistent with the typo, an impossible result for someone still living.

As for your desire to bring up cases regarding Rieders, that was attempted at trial. Judge Ito considered the argument out of the presence of the jury and disallowed the proposed argument to continue. I will save you the bother of looking for it. Enjoy your nothing burger.

LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; MONDAY, JULY 24, 1995 9:16 A.M.

Department no. 103 Hon. Lance A. Ito, Judge

APPEARANCES: (Appearances as heretofore noted.)

(Janet M. Moxham, CSR no. 4855, official reporter.)

(Christine M. Olson, CSR no. 2378, official reporter.)

(The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)

THE COURT: All right. Back on the record in the Simpson matter. Mr. Simpson is again present before the Court with his counsel, Mr. Shapiro, Mr. Cochran, Mr. Douglas, Mr. Bailey, Mr. Blasier. The People are represented by Miss Clark and Mr. Kelberg. The jury is not present. Counsel, anything we need to take up before we take up the next witness?

MR. KELBERG: Yes, your Honor. I am down here not as a result of anyone else's efforts, but of my own accord, because I couldn't help on Friday but review the Court's ruling with respect to Mr. MacDonell's testimony and then to review Dr. Rieders' report, my understanding being that Dr. Rieders will be the next witness called by the Defense. And it struck me as ironic, if nothing else, that in the Court's ruling regarding Mr. MacDonell, the Court, on page 2 of its ruling, noted near the end, just before the section dealing with discovery violations, the previous evidence code section 352 objection by the Defense: "The phenolphthalein based presumptive tests for human blood is still well taken for all the reasons previously advanced." And what struck me from that in the Court's order is Dr. Rieders' report concerning his analysis of the test results of Mr. Martz from the FBI because on page 2 in the concluding paragraph of Dr. Rieders' report he says: "Thus the finding of EDTA in a micro blood specimen, such as in the present ones, is consistent with, indicative of and presumptive for the blood having originated from a specimen which has been placed into a usually lavender top blood collection" and handwritten in is "EDTA tube such as is commonly used to draw blood from a living person and keep it from coagulating." What I believe the evidence would show, your Honor, with respect to the analysis by Dr. Rieders, is there can be, among the eleven preliminary organic compounds known in the universe, hundreds perhaps that would give a reading, a pattern, to use a shorthand version, of findings consistent with what Dr. Rieders in his report is only willing to say is a pattern which is consistent with, indicative of and presumptive for EDTA. It seems to me that for all the reasons expressed by the Defense to keep out phenolphthalein testing, because it is misleading, confusing to the jury of the real issues, and so forth, the same applies with respect to Dr. Rieders' testimony, proposed testimony, with respect to the EDTA testing of the two bloodstains. This is not evidence that in fact shows there is EDTA, according to Dr. Rieders' own report. It only reflects that the result is presumptive of EDTA, and we can go into the technicalities about basically the full spectrum that you need to see in order to say I identify EDTA is absent, that it is not a full spectrum, and only what is present can be used to say in the opinion of Dr. Rieders it is indicative of, consistent with, presumptive for. What is good for the goose, your Honor, I submit is good for the gander. Now, why is this important? Because if there is only one other compound in the universe which besides EDTA could give the pattern which is the pattern found in the stains from the gate and the socks and from- -I will get into that, Miss Clark, in just a moment--if there is only one other compound that could give that pattern, then the evidence may have far more probative value than if hundreds of other compounds could provide that result. But we don't know which hundreds could provide it because as the evidence would show, Dr. Rieders, no. 1, has never done this test for EDTA using this equipment. His laboratory does not have this equipment. And the laboratory that he has to go to when he wants to use this kind of equipment does not have electrospray which is in fact the process used by the FBI, but it is the FBI's report and analysis which Dr. Rieders is going to come in here and talk about supposedly. Now, I find it most curious that a man who has never been testing for EDTA using this equipment who doesn't have the equipment in his laboratory and who has to go to a lab to do this kind of laboratory test but can't do it on that equipment because it is not previously the same kind is going to come in here and start talking about is this EDTA or is this not EDTA. And what is important, all he is going to say is about his own admission in his own report is it is presumptive of. Let me give the Court a further understanding of why I think it is so potentially misleading and it is an example from Dr. Rieders' past, recent past. A very wellknown case in the southern California area, the sconce, s-c-o-n-c-e, case, oleander poisoning. The history, a gentleman was found dead in 1985, death attributed to cardiac arrest, a young man, a very overweight man and a man in the funeral business, a competitor of Mr. Sconce's. There was an informant who in about 1990 suggested that Mr. Sconce or that the victim, had been poisoned by oleander poisoning. As a result of which the Ventura County District Attorney's office retained the services of Dr. Rieders to perform an analysis of various substances preserved from autopsy to determine the presence of something called oleandrin which is part and parcel of the oleander plant and is a toxin. Let me read the Court just very briefly Dr. Rieders' testimony at the preliminary hearing in 1990, October 4th, regarding his findings. "In this case three independent tests were done; thin layer chromatography, fluorescent spectrophotometry and radioimmunoassay. These are physiochemically different things. The chances that a substance has all the properties in all three tests in common and is in actuality another substance," and his opinion was that these tests showed it was oleandrin, "From experience are so extremely remote that one then has a very high degree of scientific certainty that if one says that this is oleandrin, in fact it is. A hundred percent, never. For a hundred percent you go to the seminary because that depends on faith. Science is never a hundred percent, it is statistical, and it is reasonably certain that chances are remote. And if you want to go over into the area of, in that area, the hand of all mighty God can make anything happen, so possibilities of course are there, but it is a high degree of reasonable scientific certainty and the operative word is `reasonable' a scientist goes by reason and not by feeling." Well, the Defense attorney for Mr. Sconce didn't think going by feeling was a very good way to go either, so he proposed having additional and more sophisticated tests performed. And guess what? The Prosecution, which included Mr. Giss of our office as a specially designated Prosecutor for Ventura County, agreed to split the $20,000 bill to have the sophisticated testing done using LCMS/MS equipment at Cornell University, incidentally, where Mr. MacDonell, I believe, makes his headquarters, Cornell, New York, and that the testing was to be done to determine the presence or absence of oleandrin and another metabolite product. And guess what? Wasn't there. The testing by Dr. Henion demonstrated that what Mr.--Dr. Rieders was willing to say to reasonable scientific certainty, not to a hundred percent because he is not God, it wasn't there. And guess what happened? A man charged with a potential capital offense saw his case dismissed as a result of Dr. Henion's findings. And guess what further happened, your Honor? Because I'm sure the Court understands that before the Prosecutor is going to dismiss a potential capital murder offense based upon an expert's finding he is going to want to go back to the original expert, Dr. Rieders, and say explain, please, where is Dr. Henion wrong? Tell us. Dr. Rieders--I talked to Mr. Giss in Miss Clark's office on Friday--basically gave a rambling nonresponsive answer, but a newspaper account of the story is succinct and to the point. From the April 4th, 1991 Los Angeles Times. "Henion reported last week that he had found no signs of oleandrin but he said he was still looking for substances created when oleandrin breaks down in the body. After trial recessed, when Henion testified with his results, no evidence of poison. Rieders, reached at his home near Philadelphia, said he could not account for the difference between his finding and Henion's. "In science' Rieders said, quote, `nothing is unquestionable,' unquote. Now, your Honor, I submit that this is exactly why presumptive test results should not be given to this jury under 352, because they are so misleading. They are not probative. Dr. Rieders cannot say what other compounds could produce the findings that the lab reports from Mr. Marks indicate, and to allow Dr. Rieders to give presumptive testing when the Court sustained Defense objections to presumptive testing is not to be fair to both sides in this case using basically the same rule of law applied to the same general aspect of the case. Now, as the Court will recall when I was last here arguing the admissibility of Mr. Simpson's statement on the exercise video, I argued something on the assumption the Court may not accept my position that the statement was admissible. That is, I wanted the tape played to show the physical movement. I make the same statement now that I made then, your Honor, that I believe this motion should be granted, but I also feel it incumbent on myself to raise additional points in the event the Court feels that the motion is not well taken. No. 1, the oleandrin incident is a clear mistake by Dr. Rieders, which using the rationale of the Defense with respect to Dr. Golden--and of course that is really why I'm done here because I have some familiarity with the evidentiary issues on this issue where the issue is the competency of the expert witness--the Court found that these specific examples of mistakes become admissible. And here, unlike Dr. Golden with gunshot wounds versus knife wounds, here we have the very same process taking place. Are we looking at something which is indicative of, consistent with and presumptive for the chemical or are we identifying the chemical in the substance? Big difference. And that is exactly what is at issue here, because I believe--I submit to the Court the evidence will show that in fact this is not EDTA. Agent Martz' unpreserved blood gave the same result as was found on the stains from the glove and from the gate, not a quantitative result, but showing the same pattern, unpreserved. That is a pretty interesting finding with respect to whether we carry EDTA in our systems, if it is EDTA, or whether there is some other compound that gives the same pattern. So no. 1, the issue of does he get cross-examined if he testifies about his mistake, I submit to the Court using parity of reason he gets cross-examined. No. 2, and I mentioned this to Miss Clark is really why I thought it important that I come down and argue this point, because the Court will recall in cross-examining Dr. Golden Mr. Shapiro wanted to cross-examine Dr.-- I'm sorry--cross-examine Dr. Lakshmanan, wanted to cross-examine Dr. Lakshmanan regarding the legal implications from the mistakes in the Gaye Phillips case which Dr. Golden acknowledged making. The Court will recall that area of proposed cross-examination, and I objected to it on, among other grounds, that it is irrelevant and that was because the issue for the mistake went to the competency of Dr. Golden. But I submit to the Court that it is proper cross-examination of Dr. Rieders to show the legal implications from his failure and refusal to acknowledge that he was wrong, because now we are not talking about his competency, we are talking about his bias. Dr. Rieders put his professional standing, his ability to get future business, his ability to retain his position as director of a laboratory, above the liberty rights of Mr. Sconce, rather than acknowledge that Dr. Henion's more sophisticated test proved that in fact there was no oleandrin poisoning. He takes the position in science "Nothing is unquestionable." Goes to bias, the legal ramifications. So I submit to the Court that if Dr. Rieders gets to testify, he gets cross-examined not only about the mistake, but he gets cross-examined regarding his response to that mistake and the legal implications from his failure or refusal to acknowledge it as a mistake because he needed to place his selfish interests above those of Mr. Sconce, the criminally charged Defendant. So again, your Honor, I raise these two points not because I believe our motion to preclude his testimony in its entirety is not well taken; I raise these points because I don't know how the Court is going to rule and I want to give the Court the full picture of what I believe are issues related to Dr. Rieders' proposed testimony.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you, counsel.

MR. KELBERG: May I have just one moment, your Honor?

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. KELBERG: Thank you, your Honor.

THE COURT: Mr. Blasier.

MR. BLASIER: Good morning, your Honor.

THE COURT: Good morning, counsel.

MR. BLASIER: Let me talk about the second issue first. I think it is just absolutely outrageous that Mr. Kelberg would come in and read from a newspaper and argue that there has been some determination that Dr. Rieders made a mistake in the sconce case. If we want to litigate the sconce case, we can, but it is going to take us about a month. The testing that was done by Mr. Henion was done on a five-year old autopsy, a different autopsy, different tissue than the testing done by Dr. Rieders earlier. Dr. Henion in his reports, my understanding, acknowledges that perhaps what Dr. Rieders saw might have been there when he saw it, but because the second autopsy five years later might not show the same thing. The case was dismissed. There were other reasons for its dismissal. We can litigate that from here to Sunday. And it is absolutely ludicrous to say that they should be able to cross-examine him on that kind of a case where there has been no legal determination that any mistake was made. In fact no mistake was made. These are contrary opinions on scientific evidence which happens all the time. And the notion that Mr. Kelberg would come in and raise his voice because a scientist would say he is not certain about something is outrageous. No scientist is going to get up there and tell you he is absolutely positive about anything if he's a real scientist. So I make a motion that they not be allowed to cross-examine on that issue at all. On 352 grounds, certainly, and a lack of showing that there is any legal basis to cross-examine. As to the first issue, on whether this is a presumptive test or not, first of all, Mr. Kelberg has not read Dr. Rieders' report carefully. His report states that the testing done by the FBI does show the presence of EDTA in the bloodstain from the sock and from the gate. There is no language about "Presumptive for" in that part of his report. The second part of the report where he tries to attribute a source as to where this could have come from is where he uses the term "Presumptive" not in the sense of a phenolphthalein test where the phenolphthalein test we know that there are a lot of common-occurring substances that can give the same response as blood and therefore it is only a test that narrows it down somewhat, could have been something else, so they have to do follow-up tests to confirm it. These are not presumptive tests. I find it fascinating that Mr. Kelberg would use Mr. Henion's LCMS/MS test to go prove that Dr. Rieders made a mistake when he is claiming now that LCMS/MS is just a presumptive test. That is the same testing that was done in this case. They might say that there are hundreds of compounds that could give this pattern. They can't name a single one. I asked Agent Martz. He can't name a single one. They have not looked at all eleven million organic compounds. There may be eleven billion in the universe, we don't know. So you can't absolutely say that there isn't something else out there that we have never seen before that might give this same pattern. That doesn't make it a presumptive test. I'm assuming that the Los Angeles District Attorney's office has been prosecuting people for years based on LCMS tests or GC/MS tests which has less information than the tests run by the FBI in this case. Those tests have been used since the seventies to demonstrate that you have a particular substance in your blood, for instance. They are not presumptive tests. There is no case that says they are a presumptive test. They are determinative tests. They can make arguments that maybe there is some other compound out there somewhere, the name of which we do not know, that might give the same result, and Agent Marks will say that and Dr. Rieders will say that also, but they will say the only compound they know that gives everything we see, the right retention time, the right parent ion and the right daughter ion and the right characteristic you must have before something can even be tested, is EDTA. And Dr. Rieders will say in his opinion this is EDTA because it meets every one of those characteristics. On the electrospray issue, electrospray is a process by which you move from the chromatography stage to the mass spec stage. With liquid chromatography you are working with a liquid that has to be converted to a gas before you can do the mass spec part of it. All electrospray does is change the liquid to the gas. It doesn't change the ions. It doesn't change the compound. It doesn't change the measurement system. You still wind up with chromatograms that you look at and you analyze. Saying that this should be determinative of whether an expert testifies is like saying that Julia Childs can't tell you anything about cooking because she doesn't use a Cuisinart. It is one technique that is used as one step in the process. It doesn't change anything. You wind up with a chromatogram that is interpreted just like they all are. So I would submit that this is clearly not a presumptive test, and further, that the Prosecution should not be allowed to cross-examine on the sconce case or any other case that they may not have mentioned, unless they present it beforehand, so that we can litigate that as well.

MR. KELBERG: May I just briefly respond, your Honor?

THE COURT: Briefly.

MR. KELBERG: No. 1, just for consistency, it is Dr. Henion; it is not Mr. Henion. No. 2, it is a more sophisticated test than any of the tests that Dr. Rieders used. No. 3, the evidence is clear Dr. Rieders--in fact, we have his article "A quest for oleandrin in decayed human tissue"--noted his findings showed it wasn't there and he doesn't make any reference whatsoever to Dr. Rieders having been possibly correct in the past with respect to his analysis. If that were the case, this case might still have been prosecuted. We are not inclined to lightly dismiss capital murder cases, your Honor. That is dismissed because of the overpowering and overwhelming and compelling nature of Dr. Henion's results. Last thing is, who is the proponent of this evidence? The people at the left side of counsel table to my left. It is their responsibility to show no other compound. It is not our responsibility to say, oh, gee, you know, there is only one or two others or maybe a couple hundred. It is their responsibility when they are talking about it is presumptive of, and that is really what the conclusion is. The issue for this jury is, hey, where does this stuff come from? If it is EDTA, where does it come from? And that is this issue that the jury is being asked to decide when in fact the expert, the best he is going to say is it is presumptive for. If he is using the language, I didn't put words in his mouth, I didn't put the words in this report; he wrote them. He should have to live by them. I submit for all the reasons previously expressed, your Honor, he should be precluded from testifying. But if the Court feels differently than I on this, that the two areas of inquiry that I have indicated are appropriate, Dr. Henion's--I asked Mr. Hodgman to make sure he is available to clear the air should there be any air need clearing regarding what the test results were and I have every expectation that he would be available.

THE COURT: All right. For the purposes of the record, Mr. Blasier, do we have Dr. Rieders' report marked as an exhibit at this point?

MR. BLASIER: I don't think we do. We provided it to the Court last week.

THE COURT: I think we should have--I think for the purpose of the appellate court I think we need to have a copy here.

MR. BLASIER: I will submit my copy, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. The 352 objection as to Dr. Rieders' testimony regarding his testing for the presence of EDTA, the objection is overruled. I will allow his testimony. The cross-examination as to other testing in other cases done by Dr. Rieders appears to be a fair game for cross-examination. Legal ramifications, however, of scientific testing, appears to the Court to be a 352 problem because there are many explanations as to why things are done legally. It is an apple and oranges argument. So the objection by the Defense as to legal ramifications is sustained. All right. For the purposes of the record we will mark a copy of Dr. Rieders' report as Court's exhibit 18.

(Court's 18 for id = Dr. Rieders' report)

THE COURT: All right. Deputy Magnera, let's have the jurors, please.

It was?!? Well, according to you that's a dumb idea, isn't it? After all, you DID say:

"That is pretty much the dumbest idea that I have seen. If you have an expert source to back you up on touch the evidence with a swab to see if it is wet, please present it."

You claimed you would touch the glove with a swab to see if it was wet. Are you really idiot enough to touch a glove with a wet swab to see if the glove is wet?

You claimed "It appears as though no one at the scene touched the glove with a sterile swab to see if the blood was wet or dry." And, you rhetorically ask and answer, "How do you think the blood evidence was collected from the crime scene? Answer: With a sterile swab."

The wet swab was not used for evidence collection, it was used in a phenolphthalein test allegedly performed by you know who. It was not allegedly using a wet swab to see if the glove was wet. Using a wet swab would rather defeat the purpose of testing to see if the glove was wet. Brilliant minds, such as your own, may disagree.

Of course, this clown got caught in so many lies that it is difficult to give credence to anything he said.

If the condition of the glove (ie., if it's wet or dry) was significant, then why wasn't that checked out at the scene?

Perhaps it was because the geniuses in charge were called Dumb and Dumber. But Dumb observed that the indicia of the glove being moist and sticky were there, and the indicia of the glove being dry were absent.

While you are at it, why did they not collect the blood drops off the back of Nicole Brown Simpson's body? You never know, there may have been some of the killer's blood. I would have given it serious consideration as evidence to be preserved.

Why did the autopsy doctor throw out the stomach contents? It made determining the time of death more difficult, with the prosecution resorting to attaching the time of death to a barking dog.

As for the Crime Scene Identification Check List at Rockingham:

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, while you were going to the Rockingham location in the truck, was there any conversation with respect to filling out the crime scene identification checklist, the Officer in Charge portion?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, at this time I would like to take a look at People's 161 identification.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Miss Mazzola, is the resolution on your screen good enough so that you can--

MS. MAZZOLA: Not really.

MR. GOLDBERG: Maybe we can just focus in on the area that says "OIC name." Okay. You need to pull the paper a little bit over to the right.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, can you recognize this?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you--is this your handwriting?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And your name is where it says "Officer in Charge"?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

The crime scene identification check list identifies Andrea Mazzola as the Officer-in-Charge.

Blood evidence is collected on swatches, not swabs or Q-tips. When all else fails, read the testimony. It tells you explicitly how the blood evidence is collected, and the procedures for recording the place and time collected. The criminalists first west to Rockingham, upon leaving Rockingham went to Bundy, and later returned to Rockingham. It was on the return visit to Rockingham that the magic sock was collected.

First the basics of evidence collection and documentation, and then I will proceed to the actual collection of the magic sock. This is foundational to discussing who collected the magic sock and when. Your magic 8-ball does not apply.

MR. GOLDBERG: Using this demonstration board, can you describe for us, starting with the first cell on People's 162, the steps that are involved in collecting a stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: May I--

MR. GOLDBERG: Maybe we can see that--can we see that cell?

THE COURT: All right. Miss Mazzola, can you see it on your monitor here?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, okay.

THE COURT: Sorry?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. That shows two spots, blood spots, that are numbered.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And is the first phase in this collection stated on the board the numbering and measuring phase?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is there a documentation aspect to that phase as well?

MS. MAZZOLA: The location, measurements, the photo i.d. Numbers and a brief description are noted on the evidence collection sheet.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And are the items also photographed before they are collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they are.

MR. GOLDBERG: So all of that occurs prior to the physical collection?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 2 that says "Dampened swatch," what is involved in this stage of the collection procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: A small cloth swatch of the approximate size you need is selected with a pair of clean tweezers. A drop of distilled water is put on the swatch. It is then shaken so any excess water is shaken off.

MR. GOLDBERG: And directing your attention now to cell no. 3 that says "Collect substrate control," what is done in this phase of the correction procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: The cloth swatch is placed on the substrate, the concrete or whatever, as close to the stain as possible, but without getting it in the stain, to get a background control of what the sample is on.

MR. GOLDBERG: What does the term "Substrate" mean?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is just the substance that the item of interest is on.

MR. GOLDBERG: So if the item of interest, for example, instead of being on a walkway, were on a wall, what would be the substrate?

MS. MAZZOLA: The wall would be the substrate.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or if it were on clothing, what would be the substrate?

MS. MAZZOLA: The clothing.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is the purpose of taking this control that is near the stain but not on the stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, it could be used for two factors: One is to provide a background, what the sample was on, so when they go to run tests on the sample, they can see if the background itself would interfere with the tests. The control can also be checked for DNA or other items of interest to see if any contamination took place.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, so this control is basically just a blank swatch that has water on it that is put on the concrete in this example?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: So do you handle this piece of evidence exactly--or this piece of swatch exactly the same way that you would handle a swatch that was actually put on the stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: It is handled the same way.

MR. GOLDBERG: Why is it that you use the identical handling procedures for the substrate control that you would use for a swatch that was actually put on the stain?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because you want them to be as identical as possible. The only difference being one will contain the item of interest; the other won't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 4 on People's 1--excuse me--162 for identification, what phase of the collection procedure is shown here?

MS. MAZZOLA: It looks like the cloth swatch is being placed into a small plastic envelope, small plastic bag. The control is placed in one bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And now directing your attention to cell no. 5 that says "Clean tweezers"-- excuse me. I'm sorry. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 5, that says "Clean tweezers" in our demonstration?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. After the control is taken, the tweezers are cleaned with distilled water and a chem wipe, which is like a laboratory Kleenex.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, directing your attention to cell no. 6, which says on our board "Take new swatch, then dampen it," what does this phase of the collection procedure involve?

MS. MAZZOLA: Our swatches are stored in plastic tubes so you have to take a small selection of them out of the tube without handling them and then you can select the correct size that you need, so that is what is being shown.

MR. GOLDBERG: How do you decide which size to take?

MS. MAZZOLA: It depends on the size of the stain. You want to select a size swatch that is small enough that--so when you apply it to the stain you would get it as concentrated as possible.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, in this particular photograph it is kind of hard for me to see that there are actually swatches in that little bottle, but is that what you are saying?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: The swatches come from that bottle?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, let's take a look at cell no. 7 that says "Collect stain" and "Number card removed" is in parentheses. What are you doing here?

MS. MAZZOLA: That would be the actual collection of the stain.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you have to dampen the swatch before you--

MS. MAZZOLA: Right, the same as with the control. You dampen the swatch, shake off the excess water, then you apply the swatch to the stain.

MR. GOLDBERG: And finally taking a look at cell no. 8 that says, "Package stain in same envelope with substrate control," what is involved in this procedure?

MS. MAZZOLA: The swatch with the stain is placed in a separate plastic envelope. Both the control and the swatch with the item you are interested in are placed in the same coin envelope with the item number written on the outside.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now when you are--thank you.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you are collecting one of these stains, do you collect one stain at a time?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And I want to ask you some questions about different things that could happen when you are collecting a stain. Do you--do you ever drop the tweezers while you are doing that?

MS. MAZZOLA: That can happen.

MR. GOLDBERG: What happens if you do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: You clean them all over again.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are taking a swatch that actually has blood on it, do you ever drop that bloody swatch?

MS. MAZZOLA: That has never happened to me.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are pouring the--maybe pouring is not the right word, but you are taking some of those little swatches out of the container, the little pill bottle--

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. GOLDBERG: --do those swatches ever fall?

MS. MAZZOLA: They do occasionally, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What do you do with those swatches?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't use them.

MR. GOLDBERG: Could you use them as substrate controls?

MS. MAZZOLA: You could.

MR. GOLDBERG: But you do not do that?

MS. MAZZOLA: But I personally don't do that.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you just throw them away?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are picking up a swatch, do any of the swatches ever stick together?

MS. MAZZOLA: That happens sometimes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. What do you do in that kind of instance?

MS. MAZZOLA: If you are taking either the control or the actual item, you can use both swatches.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. But what if you have two swatches stuck together? Do you try to separate them or is it possible that you could apply both of them to the stain at the same time, without knowing it?

MS. MAZZOLA: You can tell if two of them are stuck together. Umm, you separate them and you--you use one swatch at a time, either to pick up the control or to pick up the stain itself.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And what about the labeling of the coin envelopes? Have you ever mislabeled one of those by writing the wrong item number?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. When are they--when are the envelopes labeled in relationship to when the collection takes place? Before--

MS. MAZZOLA: The envelopes were labeled before.

MR. GOLDBERG: So do you put the--if you are collecting stain no. 5, for example--

MS. MAZZOLA: Uh-huh.

MR. GOLDBERG: --in our demonstration, you are going to put that in an envelope that is labeled what?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. 5.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that would be done before you moved on to no. 6?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were at the Rockingham location did you place your initials on all the coin envelopes as you were collecting them?

MS. MAZZOLA: At the time I thought I did. Looking back I apparently didn't.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do you recall testifying at what we've been referring to or sometimes referred to as a griffin hearing on August 23, I believe, of 1994?

MS. MAZZOLA: I remember testifying at the griffin hearing.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And in that--when you were testifying at that hearing at that time, did you believe that you had put all of your initials or your initials on all of the items that you had collected on the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: At that time I believe I had.

MR. GOLDBERG: And did you since learn that you did not?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection. What she assumes is hearsay.

THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Did you since look at photographs of some of the items collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And have you learned that you did not?

MS. MAZZOLA: I learned I had not.

MR. GOLDBERG: On the other scenes that you had processed--

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I'm sorry. Move to strike the last answer. It is conclusionary as opposed to testimony.

THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, on the other stains--excuse me--other scenes that you had collected stains on prior to the 13th, had you initialed on those occasions?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why wasn't that done here at the scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: I was told that there were only two of us that--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to what she was told.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Without telling us what was said, was there a conversation about this?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after the conversation did--was there some conclusion that was arrived at?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was the conclusion?

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor.

THE COURT: What is the basis?

MR. NEUFELD: Hearsay again.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: There were only going to be two of us at the scenes collecting evidence. We were working as a team, so it really didn't matter if our initials were on the envelopes since we were working as a team.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, as to the crime scene identification checklist that we talked a little bit about, when you testified at the griffin hearing, what was your understanding of how that checklist was supposed to be used?

MS. MAZZOLA: At the time I thought that everything had to be filled out. The other scenes that I had gone on they had filled out the checklist.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Maybe we can see a portion. I think it is 1107.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Let's just take a look at the last page of the exhibit. It is 1107 for identification.

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Fairtlough, what page number is that? They are numbered at the top.

MR. FAIRTLOUGH: Page 2 of 2.

MR. GOLDBERG: I don't think it has a number. It is the one that has 17, 18 and 19.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Or 18, 17 and 19.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Is this the form that you use out in the field when you are collecting evidence?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: It is a little blurry there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, prior to testifying at the griffin hearing did you believe that every single box in every single column needed to be filled out?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And as a result of your training and experience after the griffin hearing, did you learn something different?

MS. MAZZOLA: I learned that this is a general guideline for us. Some of the boxes really don't apply to us at the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: When did you start--when did you learn that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right after I testified at the griffin hearing.

MR. GOLDBERG: And got back to the laboratory?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. With respect to the time column, have you noticed now, based upon the experience that you have to date, that different criminalists in the Los Angeles Police Department have different practices with respect to how they fill out that column?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And how is that used?

MS. MAZZOLA: Some fill out every single individual time that something is collected. Others put a starting time that they start collecting evidence and an ending time when they stop. Everything that is collected is collected while you are at the scene, so it happens between those two times.

MR. GOLDBERG: And then are there some people that use what I guess you might call an intermediate type usage of that time column and put in some times, as you did on the 13th?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, leading.

THE COURT: Sustained. The answer is stricken. Rephrase the question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are there some people that use an intermediate technique?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, getting back to the collection of the evidence at Rockingham, perhaps we can take a look at People's 120 for identification. It is the board of Rockingham, the outside stains.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to People's 120 for identification, do you recognize what is depicted here?

MS. MAZZOLA: That is not showing up.

MR. GOLDBERG: It is not going to be on the monitor. Maybe you can just step down for a moment and take a look at this.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. Yes, I recognize it.

MR. GOLDBERG: And are these photographs that depict various items that you participated in collecting on the 13th at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: Yes.

THE COURT: Overruled. May we have a side bar, your Honor?

THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you were doing the physical collection on these, do you recall what order they were done in? Were they done in numerical order?

MS. MAZZOLA: For the most part, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would that mean that you started with the stains that are down towards the gate?

MS. MAZZOLA: The first stain that was collected was on--excuse me--on the door of the Bronco.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know who physically collected that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know who physically collected that.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear.

MS. MAZZOLA: Excuse me. I was the one who collected the one on the Bronco.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the stains that are leading from the Bronco into the driveway area, did you and Dennis Fung physically collect those--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection as to her and Dennis Fung.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, can you tell us, when you first started the collection, can you be more specific as to who was doing what in terms of the physical collection?

MS. MAZZOLA: As I said, I was the one that collected the stain offer the Bronco, and Mr. Fung collected the stain on the street. When we got to the driveway, he did, I believe it was like the first two stains, and I took over from there and was the one who physically collected the rest.

MR. GOLDBERG: With respect to the other stains, do you have a recollection of whether he physically participated in collecting any of those?

MS. MAZZOLA: He was present for some.

MR. GOLDBERG: So at the beginning of the stains he was doing more of the physical collection and then towards the end less?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And with respect to the first phase of the collection procedure, the documentation, the numbering and the measuring phase, how did the two of you work together to accomplish that?

MS. MAZZOLA: We worked as a team.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, with respect to the stains at the end of the outdoor area, stain no. 7 and stain no. 8, do you recall where Dennis Fung was around the time that those were collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: At first he was not present, but as I kept working, he came up.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall whether anyone else was present at the time those stains were collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: In the immediate area?

MS. MAZZOLA: There was someone in the immediate area.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Steve Johnson.

MR. GOLDBERG: Who is he?

MS. MAZZOLA: He is the assistant lab director.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know where Dennis Fung was at the time that he was not present?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Where he went?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: But he went somewhere and at some point came back?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, with respect to the stains at the Rockingham location, were--was every single last stain collected or were there some that were not collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: There were some that were not collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what is your training with respect to the need to collect every stain as opposed to less than all the stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Well, on a trail you want to get a representative sample, you want to get the first few stains, you want to pick up the last few stains. The ones in between, as long as they appear to be going in the general direction, there is nothing out of the ordinary with them, not every single stain has to be collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: And is that the technique that you and Mr. Fung used with respect to collecting these stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right--you can--I want to ask you some questions that you may have to refer to your crime scene identification checklist for, so you may want to return to the stand.

MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg, are you going to refer back to this exhibit, People's 120, for a minute.

MR. GOLDBERG: I want to talk about stains, unless logistically we can't do that.

THE COURT: Well, if you are going to be referring to it, proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. With respect to the stains numbered 4 through 6 on our diagram, with the photo i.d. Numbers, 4 through 6, down towards the beginning portion of the driveway, can you tell us the time frame that those stains were collected?

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, your Honor. The record should reflect that the witness is refreshing her recollection from some notes. May I approach the witness and see?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

THE COURT: Miss Mazzola, what are you referring to?

MS. MAZZOLA: I'm referring to the crime scene notes.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Proceed.

MS. MAZZOLA: They were collected around nine o'clock, all within a few minutes of each other.

MR. GOLDBERG: And with respect to the stains that are up towards the--close to the entrance area, stain no. 7, stain no. 8, what was the time frame of those stains?

MS. MAZZOLA: Those were approximately ten to fifteen minutes later.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you have some time frames in your crime scene identification checklist to give us?

MS. MAZZOLA: Item 7 was collected approximately 9:10. Item 8, approximately fifteen minutes later.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, when you were at the location, from what you saw of all of the stains, did any of them appear to have been stepped in?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, before--I can take this down now, your Honor.

THE COURT: All right.

(Brief pause.)

THE COURT: Mr. Fairtlough, why don't you swing that around.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Before you left the Rockingham location, did you and Mr. Fung do any--go through any process in terms of double-checking the evidence that you had?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: What was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: We knew what item numbers we collected. We look at each individual item to make sure that we had everything.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And is that a routine thing that you have done on the other crime scenes that you were on before this?

MS. MAZZOLA: At the other crime scenes we make sure that we have everything that we collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: What did you do with the various coin envelopes that you had with the biological evidence of them--in them?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were put in a small paper bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall whether they were lying down or standing up?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were standing up.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what was done with the paper bag?

MS. MAZZOLA: The paper bag was put into the back of the crime scene truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was the crime scene truck locked?

MS. MAZZOLA: All the time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately what time was it that you left the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately ten o'clock, somewhere around there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Were you wearing gloves during the collection procedure of the biological evidence at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do you know whether you were wearing the same pair of gloves the whole time?

MS. MAZZOLA: I probably changed gloves. I don't remember how many times, but--

MR. NEUFELD: Objection, your Honor, speculative. She said "I probably," and move to strike the answer.

THE COURT: Strained. Rephrase the question. Excuse me. The jury is to disregard the last answer and question.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have a practice at a crime scene to wear the same pair of gloves throughout the entire crime scene?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: What is your practice?

MS. MAZZOLA: I change the gloves when they start getting uncomfortable. If I am done possessing an area and I am moving on to a completely separate area, I will change gloves.

MR. GOLDBERG: By the way, just going back for a second to the blood collection procedure, can you-- do you ever touch the blood with your gloved hands?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: When you are collecting it?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: What about the swatches?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that something that has happened to you by accident where you have touched a bloody swatch with your gloved hands?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, what do you do with the gloves that you are wearing at the time that you leave the Rockingham location? Do you keep them on?

MS. MAZZOLA: No. We take a paper bag which we label "Trash" and any trash that we generate, whether it is used gloves, swabs, chem wipes, anything, goes into this bag and we take it with us.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after you left the Rockingham location where did you go?

MS. MAZZOLA: We went to Bundy.

Dennis Fung, 4 April 1995

In this section Dennis Fung clearly identified Item 13 as the magic socks.

THE COURT: IT'S A GOOD THING THERE'S NO WIND IN THIS PLACE.

Q: BY MR. GOLDBERG: MR. FUNG, I AM DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 169 AND IS ENTITLED "ROCKINGHAM INTERIOR BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE." DID YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT THIS EXHIBIT PRIOR TO THE TIME IT WAS BROUGHT DOWN TO COURT?

A: YES.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE CALL OUT NUMBER THAT SAYS 14, WHAT DOES THAT SHOW? WHAT AREA OF THE RESIDENCE DOES THAT SHOW?

A: THAT IS IN THE MASTER BATH -- BATHROOM.

Q: SO THAT WOULD BE DEPICTING THE UPSTAIRS OF THE HOUSE?

A: YES.

Q: AND WHAT DO THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO ITEM 14 SHOW?

A: THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE RIGHT DEPICTS CRIMINALIST MAZZOLA DISPLAYING THE RESULTS OF A PHENOLPHTALEIN TEST AND THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE LEFT IS A CLOSE-UP AND YOU CAN SEE THE STAIN HERE (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. YOU'RE POINTING TO AN AREA THAT'S JUST TO THE RIGHT ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH ABOUT AN INCH AND A HALF OR SO FROM THE CARD?

A: YES.

Q: AND IS THE OTHER PHOTOGRAPH TO THE LEFT SIMPLY A PERSPECTIVE SHOT DEMONSTRATING THE SAME GENERAL THING?

A: YES.

Q: NOW, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE ITEM CALL OUT NO. 13, WHAT GENERAL AREA IS BEING POINTED TO THERE WITH THAT CALL OUT LINE? A: THAT IS THE MASTER BEDROOM.

Q: WHAT ABOUT THE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ARE ATTACHED TO THAT CALL OUT LINE? WHAT DO THOSE SHOW?

A: THOSE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS SHOW A PAIR OF DARK COLORED SOCKS ON THE THROW RUG.

Q: THOSE ARE THE SOCKS THAT YOU RECOVERED AND LISTED AS ITEM 13?

A: YES.

Q: AND NOW TO FINALLY DIRECT YOUR ATTENTION TO THE CALL OUT LINE THAT SAYS 12, WHAT GENERAL AREA OF THE HOUSE IS THAT POINTING TO?

A: THAT IS -- WELL, THOSE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS DEPICT THE FOYER OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS THE ENTRANCE, AND THERE ARE THREE LARGE STAINS ON THE FLOOR. THAT IS A -- A CLOSE-UP OF THAT IS SHOWN IN THE RIGHT PICTURE.

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Dennis Fung, 18 April 1995

In this section Dennis Fung provides testimonial evidence of when the magic socks were collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what time was 12 collected, approximately, according to the crime scene identification checklist?

MR. FUNG: According to the checklist, it was collected at 4:30.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And do you recall my asking you on recross whether you were sure about whether 13 was collected before 14?

MR. FUNG: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Are you a hundred percent sure?

MR. FUNG: Not a hundred percent sure, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: Which one do you think was collected first?

MR. FUNG: I think the socks and item 13 were collected first.

MR. GOLDBERG: Before 14?

MR. FUNG: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: But you can't be a hundred percent sure?

MR. FUNG: I'm not a hundred percent sure.

MR. GOLDBERG: When was 14, the item in the bathroom, master bathroom, collected, that stain?

MR. FUNG: That stain was collected around 4:40.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you are saying, I believe, that the socks were collected after 4:30--well, between 4:30 and 4:40, approximately?

MR. FUNG: In that general time frame, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And as far as you are concerned, Mr. Fung, does it make the slightest bit of difference that you can figure out, when they were collected within that general time frame?

MR. FUNG: No, it doesn't make any difference to me.

I'd like to know which hand he used to pick up the socks, and if he was 100% sure he used that hand. And why that particular hand.

When did you say he collected the socks? I couldn't hear you.

I am still waiting for you to identify what evidence, produced at the criminal trial, would have justified a jury verdict of guilty. I the mean time I will keep posting testimonial evidence showing perjury and planting of evidence.

OJ did it. Justice would be one dead OJ.

This is not about whether OJ did it or not. It is about whether the prosecution in the criminal trial produced evidence that would have justified the jury returning a verdict of guilty.

Perjury and planted evidence don't get it. I could not get a straight answer to the question of when the socks were collected, so I am providing the testimony of when they were collected and how the collection was recorded. I have only just started on that. There is more to come.

Did it ever occur to the forensics team that just because the glove didn't fit OJ doesn't rule out that he didn't do it. Did they bother to turn the gloves inside out and dust for prints?

They were cashmere lined.

I'd like to know which hand he used to pick up the socks, and if he was 100% sure he used that hand. And why that particular hand.

You just donot want to engage on when the magic socks were collected.

Dennis Fung, 11 April 1995, Cross examination by Barry Scheck

Note that Fung testifies to the collection of Item 12, downstairs, at 4:30 or thereabouts, recorded as 4:30, before he and Mazzola proceeded upstairs to continue collecting evidence, the first piece of evidence collected upstairs being Item 13, the socks, at an unrecorded time, and then Item 14 recorded at 4:40.

Q: AND THE -- THERE'S A BOX THERE THAT INDICATES TIMES; IS THERE NOT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THEN STARTING AT I BELIEVE ITEM 11 -MR. SCHECK: IF WE COULD FOCUS ON THAT, MR. HARRIS, STARTING AT ITEM 11, IF YOU COULD ZERO IN ON THAT, MOVE IT JUST -- THAT'S IT. GREAT.

Q: BY MR. SCHECK: ALL RIGHT. ITEM 11 REPRESENTS THE FIRST ITEM THAT WAS COLLECTED WHEN YOU AND MISS MAZZOLA RETURNED TO ROCKINGHAM IN THE AFTERNOON?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU PUT DOWN THAT TIME AS 3:40 OR 1540 HOURS?

A: THAT WAS THE TIME THAT WAS PUT DOWN.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS THAT ACCURATE?

A: THAT'S THE GENERAL TIME FRAME THAT IT WAS COLLECTED.

Q: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN THE NEXT ITEM WAS A RED STAIN FROM THE FOYER AREA INSIDE ROCKINGHAM, CORRECT?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT ONE WAS COLLECTED AT 4:30?

A: YES.

Q: AND -

A: OR THEREABOUTS.

Q: OR THEREABOUTS. AND THE NEXT ITEM YOU COLLECTED WERE THE SOCKS?

A: YES.

Q: BUT THERE'S NO TIME INDICATED FOR THAT?

A: THAT'S CORRECT.

Q: AND THE NEXT ITEM AFTER THAT YOU INDICATED WAS A RED STAIN THAT WAS FOUND IN THE MASTER BATHROOM?

A: YES.

Q: AND THAT TIME IS AT 4:40?

A: YES.

Q: SO I BELIEVE IT WAS YOUR TESTIMONY ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU COLLECTED THE SOCKS SOMETIME BETWEEN 4:30 AND 4:40?

A: ABOUT THEN, YES.

Q: AND THEN BEFORE YOU LEFT THE RESIDENCE, YOU COLLECTED TWO OTHER ITEMS, NUMBERS 15 AND 16, AND THOSE WERE AT 5:00 AND 5:05?

A: THE CHECKLIST STATES 15, 16 WERE COLLECTED AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME.

Q: WELL, WHAT TIMES WERE THOSE LISTED ON THE CHECKLIST? PERHAPS YOU COULD HELP. IT'S A LITTLE DIFFICULT TO SEE.

A: THEY BOTH SAY THE SAME TIME. 5:00 O'CLOCK.

I'd like to know which hand he used to pick up the socks, and if he was 100% sure he used that hand. And why that particular hand.

I will continue to present actual testimonial evidence on the magic socks, and then move on to the magic blood drops on the side of the Bronco.

You have said there is no evidence of planting. I am feeding you the evidence.

Andrea Mazzola, 20 April 2017, Direct examination by Hank Goldberg

Ms. Mazzola testified she and Mr. Fung left Bundy at about 3:30 or 3:15 and returned to Rockingham around 3:30 or so. (Of interest for another time is why the trip took 15 to 30 minutes as the prosecution timeline for the killer puts the time at about 6 minutes.)

In recording a collection time, Andrea Mazzola recalled that she just glanced at her watch for the time.

Andrea Mazzola testified she personally did the physical swatching on Item 12 in the downstairs foyer, and personally recorded the time of collection in her own handwriting.

And,

MS. MAZZOLA: After item 12, item 13 was picked up.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after item no. 13, what was picked up?

MS. MAZZOLA: Item 14.

Ms. Mazzola testified that Item 14 was collected at 1640 (4:40 pm) and the collection time was reflected as such in her notes. It does not appear that Hank Goldberg bother to ask about the collection time of Item 12 on direct, but Peter Neufeld filled in the gap on cross.

As for Ms. Mazzola on cross by Peter Neufeld, she testified about the time of collection of Item 12:

MR. NEUFELD: All right. Well, what time did you actually pick up item no. 12? Did you record that in your notes?

MS. MAZZOLA: Let's see. Yes.

MR. NEUFELD: And what time was that?

MS. MAZZOLA: 1630.

MR. NEUFELD: That would be 3:30--3:30. No. 4:30, 4:30 in the afternoon.

MS. MAZZOLA: 4:30.

That is 1630, or 4:30 p.m., prior to proceeding upstairs to continue evidence collection with Item 13, the socks.

I will provide a substantial excerpt of that cross examination shortly.

Ms. Mazzola continued. In this section, Ms. Mazzola provides testimonial evidence of who collected the Rockingham socks, and the time of collection.

For identification purposes, Item #13 was the magic socks.

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately what time did you leave the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, it was approximately 3:15 or so, 3 o'clock, 3:15.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And where did you go after you left?

MS. MAZZOLA: We went back to Rockingham.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you take the crime scene truck?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what would you have done with the gloves that you had been wearing at the Bundy location when you left?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were taken off and put in the trash bag.

MR. GOLDBERG: Before you left, did you do the same evidence inventory procedure that you've described?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And do you have--are you--do you have an independent recollection of exactly where that took place?

MS. MAZZOLA: Not an exact recollection. I have an idea where it took place, but I can't be absolutely positive.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was it outdoors?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was outdoors, yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us in terms of being towards the front of the Bundy location? By that, I mean the Bundy side or to the rear towards the alley side?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was up front.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. What time did you return to the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probably around 3:30 or so.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have any notes with you that you can use to give us the time that you collected the first item of evidence once you returned to Rockingham in the afternoon?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I do.

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us? Do you have it memorized or do you need something?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't have it memorized.

MR. GOLDBERG: Please tell us what you are referring to to give us that information.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. I'm referring to the evidence collection sheet.

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I am sorry. I'll object. I would say there has to be a proper foundation laid before she refreshes her recollection. She hasn't done that.

THE COURT: Overruled.

MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. This says 1540.

MR. GOLDBERG: So that's 3:40?

MS. MAZZOLA: 3:40.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was the notation as to the time in your handwriting or Mr. Fung's?

MS. MAZZOLA: My handwriting.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you made that notation, how did you do it? Did you ask someone or look at your watch or what?

MS. MAZZOLA: I think I just glanced at my watch.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And this first item was stain no. 11?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Which was on which side of the house?

MS. MAZZOLA: It was on the side of the house near the garage, on that end of the house.

MR. GOLDBERG: That little narrow walkway area?

MS. MAZZOLA: Right.

MR. GOLDBERG: And that's outdoors?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's outdoors.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, I would like to direct your attention back to some testimony at the Griffen hearing on page 758. Well, actually 757, line 25 through 758, line 4.

MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry? What lines?

MR. GOLDBERG: Line 25 and 758 to line 4.

THE COURT: Do you have that, Mr. Neufeld?

MR. NEUFELD: Yes.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: At the Griffen hearing, did you give the following answers to the following questions? "Question: And what time did you get back to Rockingham was it? "Answer: Right around 4 o'clock, somewhere in there. "Question: How do you know it was about 4 o'clock? "Answer: Because of the time that is noted that we collected the sample in the foyer." Do you remember giving that testimony?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So was this testimony that you got back there at 4 o'clock correct?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: And why did you testify that way?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because I was--just had a chance to glance at the notes as I was testifying.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, I would like to read you another passage that occurred just previously to that on page 757.

MR. GOLDBERG: Counsel, it's lines 12 through 15. 757, 12 through 15.

THE COURT: Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Just previously to that, did you give the following answer to this question? "Question: So as soon as you got back to Rockingham, the first thing that you did was walk inside and lift item no. 12? "Answer: After it was photographed." Do you recall that?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So was item no. 12 in fact the first item that you collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: No.

MR. GOLDBERG: So why did you think that item no. 12 was the first thing that you collected and that it was at 4 o'clock?

MS. MAZZOLA: Because as I said, I was just going off of the notes. I didn't have time to go through them and refresh my memory and I looked at the wrong line.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you--didn't you see no. 11 at that time when you were testifying at the Griffen hearing and looking over the crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: I honestly don't remember.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. But based upon the crime scene identification checklist, was item no. 11 in fact the first stain that you collected in the afternoon?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who did the physical collection on that?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, did you in fact collect a stain no. 12 in the foyer area of Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Perhaps we can see People's 169, which is the interior Rockingham map.

(Brief pause.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Can you see this, Miss Mazzola? Directing your attention to the photographs on this exhibit that are labeled with photograph numbers--photograph no. 12 and the call out line, do those depict where this item was collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it does.

MR. GOLDBERG: And this was the first interior item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who did the physical collection in terms of the swatching of this item?

MS. MAZZOLA: I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was Mr. Fung watching you on this item?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, he was.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. Now, after collecting this item from the foyer area, where did you go in the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: We started making our way upstairs looking as we were going for any items of evidence.

MR. GOLDBERG: So you collected downstairs first before going upstairs?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And when you got upstairs, did you go to the master bedroom area of the house?

MS. MAZZOLA: We did go there.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you see the item that's contained in photographs 13?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And where were they?

MS. MAZZOLA: They were at the foot of the master bedroom bed.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And did you also see the item that's depicted in the photographs that are labeled 14?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what are you doing in this photograph?

MS. MAZZOLA: That-

MR. GOLDBERG: Photograph that shows you holding a q-tip.

MS. MAZZOLA: That is a simple presumptive test for blood.

MR. GOLDBERG: Is that the phenolphtalein test?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, if you look closely at that photograph, in the upper right-hand corner, you can see that there is some clothing on the ground. Can you see that? It's right behind the shower door. No. The one that has you doing the presumptive test.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: The one that has photograph no. 14.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you recall how that clothing got there?

MS. MAZZOLA: One of the detectives was looking through the clothing.

MR. GOLDBERG: Was that while you and criminalist Fung were in this master bathroom, master bedroom area?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.

MR. GOLDBERG: And prior to this detective looking at this item, where was the clothing?

MS. MAZZOLA: The clothing was in a clothes hamper. You can't really see that.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. That's fine. You can resume the witness stand.

MS. MAZZOLA: Thank you.

MR. GOLDBERG: So when the detective took the items out of the hamper, did he ever put them back in the hamper that you saw or did he just leave them on the floor?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if he put them back or not.

MR. GOLDBERG: But he did--but he did take them out and put them on the floor?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. You can take that down.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know how the towels got on the floor?

MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after collecting item no. 12, what was the next item number that you collected, that was collected in your presence?

MS. MAZZOLA: May I check my notes?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

(Brief pause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: After item 12, item 13 was picked up.

MR. GOLDBERG: And after item no. 13, what was picked up?

MS. MAZZOLA: Item 14.

MR. GOLDBERG: And who physically collected item no. 13?

MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung.

MR. GOLDBERG: What time was item no. 14 collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately 1640.

THE COURT: And the record should reflect that Miss Mazzola is referring to her notes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And were you referring to the crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I was.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, is there a time for 13 on that list or is it just 12 and 14?

MS. MAZZOLA: Just 12 and 14.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would just like to clarify something before I ask my next question.

THE COURT: Yes. At the sidebar with the court reporter, please.

(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg, what do you need to clarify?

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I know on 15 and 16, the airline ticket and the baggage claim--

THE COURT: Oh, no, not this again.

MR. GOLDBERG: That's why I wanted to approach, so I can make sure I'm not going to go--we've had testimony there was a 15 and 16 collected at 5 o'clock, but that's it, which from my view, it sort of went beyond the Court's-

MR. SCHECK: What do you want to do? Maybe we won't have any objection. Just tell us what you want to do.

MR. GOLDBERG: I was just going to ask her when 15 and 16 were collected, not ask what they were.

MR. NEUFELD: We have no objection.

THE COURT: Just that one question.

MR. GOLDBERG: I should have brought the transcript up with me, but there's some inconsistent statements she makes regarding when she left the location. She thought it was shortly after 5:00, and it's based on the time of the collection of 15 and 16. There's reference in that transcript to collectively 15 and 16, the airline ticket. My proposal would be simply not to read that, redact that out.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Does the transcript--Hank, does the transcript refer to where it was collected from though?

MR. GOLDBERG: Uh-uh. I don't think it does.

MR. NEUFELD: I mean-

MR. GOLDBERG: If it does, if it refers to anything else-

MR. NEUFELD: No. I'm saying it's fine to bring out the location. In fact, just to take care of it now, if you don't bring it out, we will bring it out later on. Just items were collected in the bathroom and items were collected on the bench outside the front door.

THE COURT: Okay. If they have no objection.

MR. GOLDBERG: I don't know. I mean if it wasn't suppressed, it wasn't suppressed. But if it were suppressed, it's suppressed.

THE COURT: No. What happened was, there was an agreement the People were not going to offer it rather than it being suppressed. But the objection has to be made by the Defense to suppress it or otherwise keep it out. If they have no objection, then I assume we can talk about it.

MR. NEUFELD: It's basically our decision--frankly, the way it was brought out on two separate occasions by the People as part of their direct case created an impression upon the jurors now there's something we're trying to hide rather. So it's only under that kind of pressure that we feel compelled to, you know, simply say where those items were.

THE COURT: Keep your voice down. But it's a tactical decision on your part. So if that's your decision, that's fine with me.

MR. SCHECK: In terms of the location and the item numbers.

THE COURT: Right. Location and item numbers. That's correct. And then you intend on going into time and we're agreed you will just read the part that says item 15 and 16, not what they are, correct?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yes. May I just have one moment?

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.

THE COURT: Okay. Done.

(The following proceedings were held in open court:)

THE COURT: These are the most educational sidebars so far. All right. Thank you, counsel. Proceed.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Thank you. All right. And was there an item no. 15 and an item no. 16 that were collected? And just answer that yes or no.

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what time were those items collected?

MS. MAZZOLA: I thought at approximately 5 o'clock.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And that was according to your crime scene identification checklist?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: May I just have one moment, your Honor?

THE COURT: Certainly.

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

MR. GOLDBERG: And can you tell us the location of where, using your crime scene identification checklist, these two items were located, just the location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: First of 15 and then of 16.

MS. MAZZOLA: 15 was collected in a downstairs bathroom trash can, 16 was collected from a bench outside the front door.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, I'd like to show you another tape that we've marked as People's 186 and then I'm going to ask you some questions about it. If you'd take a look at it.

THE COURT: Is this from Rockingham?

MR. GOLDBERG: Yeah. It's the beta tape from Rockingham.

(At 11:37 A.M., People's exhibit 186, a videotape, was played.)

MR. GOLDBERG: If we could just stop for one second. We're at frame 17:11.

MR. GOLDBERG: So if we assume that this is correct, this would be 5:11?

MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in this scene, what are you and criminalist Fung doing?

MS. MAZZOLA: We are putting items of evidence in the back of the crime scene truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would these be the items of evidence that you had collected in the afternoon at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: Now, are you placing anything in addition to the evidence itself in the truck at this time?

MS. MAZZOLA: Our kits.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what are your kits?

MS. MAZZOLA: They are two cases that contain things we need to pick up evidence, package it at the scene.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do those contain all of your packaging materials?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, they do.

MR. GOLDBERG: And in addition to the bags, the brown paper bags that we've seen, what other kinds of packaging materials do you have?

MS. MAZZOLA: Plastics, bags, coin envelopes of varying sizes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. So at this point in time, those items are being placed in the rear of the crime scene truck?

MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

MR. GOLDBERG: And would this have been after you did the inventory for the afternoon items?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you know where physically that inventory took place?

MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know for sure, no.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Let's continue.

THE COURT: All right. Just for the record, that's 17:11 actually and 50 seconds because there's a lot in between.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Thank you, your Honor. If you could just stop for another second. So this is 17:11:57:02 that we're looking at.

MR. GOLDBERG: Did you just lock the crime scene truck?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

MR. GOLDBERG: So at this time, where is all of the evidence that was collected from the morning at Rockingham?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And all of the evidence that was collected at Bundy?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what about the evidence that was collected in the afternoon?

MS. MAZZOLA: In the back of the truck.

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Let's continue. If we could stop for just a second. I have another-- I have a question.

MR. GOLDBERG: And the crime scene identification checklist that we've been referring to, where is that at this time as you and Mr. Fung are walking away from the-

MS. MAZZOLA: That is also on the back of the truck.

Ms. Mazzola testified she and Mr. Fung left Bundy at about 3:30 or 3:15 and returned to Rockingham around 3:30 or so. (Of interest for another time is why the trip took 15 to 30 minutes as the prosecution timeline for the killer puts the time at about 6 minutes.)

But wait! If they left Bundy at 3:30 and returned to Rockingham at 3:30, it took zero time, right?

Next time make a pont and back it up with specific testimony, not the entire court transcript. If you don't, I will not read it or respond.

Q: SO I BELIEVE IT WAS YOUR TESTIMONY ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU COLLECTED THE SOCKS SOMETIME BETWEEN 4:30 AND 4:40?

OK. I read through all the testimony. The socks were collected between 4:30 and 4:40.

Your point?

Did they bother to turn the gloves inside out and dust for prints?

The gloves were lined with cashmere.

Shapiro admitted he tried the glove on earlier. That could have torn the lining. Darden said, "I think Johnnie (Cochran) tore the lining. There were some additional tears in the lining so that O.J.'s fingers couldn't go all the way up into the glove."

The gloves were lined with cashmere.

Are you telling me that cashmere linen cannot be scanned for DNA?

Are you telling me that cashmere linen cannot be scanned for DNA?

Scanned for DNA? I thought you said "dust for prints".

Well what do you think they dust for?

Fingerprints.

Ms. Mazzola testified she and Mr. Fung left Bundy at about 3:30 [sic 3:00] or 3:15 and returned to Rockingham around 3:30 or so. (Of interest for another time is why the trip took 15 to 30 minutes as the prosecution timeline for the killer puts the time at about 6 minutes.)

But wait! If they left Bundy at 3:30 and returned to Rockingham at 3:30, it took zero time, right?

Oh noes! You caught me in a typo. The transcript I provided did not contain my typo. In case you are still befuddled, here it is repeated from the transcript.

[excerpts from transcript at my #297]

MR. GOLDBERG: Approximately what time did you leave the Bundy location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Oh, it was approximately 3:15 or so, 3 o'clock, 3:15.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And where did you go after you left?

MS. MAZZOLA: We went back to Rockingham.

[...]

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. What time did you return to the Rockingham location?

MS. MAZZOLA: Probably around 3:30 or so.

[misterwhite #299]

That entire line of questioning was useless. What a f**king waste of my time.

Next time make a pont and back it up with specific testimony, not the entire court transcript. If you don't, I will not read it or respond.

[misterwhite #300]

Q: SO I BELIEVE IT WAS YOUR TESTIMONY ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU COLLECTED THE SOCKS SOMETIME BETWEEN 4:30 AND 4:40?

OK. I read through all the testimony. The socks were collected between 4:30 and 4:40.

Your point?

Very well, I will proceed consistent withy your representation that you have read all the testimony, and the socks were collected between 16:30 and 16:40.

Fung and Mazzola testified that they collected Item #12 downstairs at 4:30, before proceeding upstairs.

Where were the magic socks at 4:13? That's fifteen to twenty-five minutes before Fung went upstairs, discovered the black socks on the white carpet in the master bedroom, and collected them. The collection time is very relevant.

The videographer clearly testified that the socks were not there when he walked across the carpet, stood at the foot of the bed, and videoed the master bedroom at 4:13 p.m., according to the auto time record of his video recording. He also testified that he left the location at 4:30 p.m. as verified by the crime scene log maintained by the police.

The magic socks were not there for videographer Willie Ford at 4:13, but for Mr. Fung between 4:30 and 4:40, they appeared.

When they appeared, they contained an impossible amount of EDTA for circulating blood in a human, and there was a compression stain that went from one outer surface to the inner surface to the opposite inner surface to the opposite outer surface. It could not have been done with a foot in the sock, or by blood spatter. The socks were a great help for the defense, not the prosecution.

Sanction hearings for discovery failure regarding the tape were held on 3/31, 4/3, and 4/4, and the prosecution fairy tale was rejected and they were sanctioned.

Also, the tape, and testimony about the tape, were grossly inconsistent with the assertions under oath of Det. Vanatter to claim probable cause for a June 28 search warrant to seize the pair of gloves that had been found and allegedly inadvertently left at Rockingham.

Willie Ford, 19 July 1995, reviewing the videotape he recorded at Rockingham.

(advance to 34m 40s)

OJ Simpson Trial - July 19th, 1995 - Part 3 (Last part)

Willie Ford, 19 July 1995:

MR. COCHRAN: Okay. Counsel is aware of this, your Honor. This is exhibit 1068, is the videotape. I'd like now to--let me say a word to Mr. Harris before we start, your Honor. I don't want to spend the entire day going all the way through. I want to get right to the important part.

MR. DARDEN: Is this going to begin at the beginning? May I confer for a moment?

(Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)

MR. COCHRAN: Okay, your Honor. I wanted to save some time because we're getting close to 4 o'clock. I'm going to ask Mr. Harris to start this video at the beginning, and then we'll stop it after I lay a foundation, then go upstairs. Very well. Mr. Harris, thank you. This is, your Honor, for the record exhibit 1068.

(At 3:51 P.M., Defendant's exhibit 1068, a videotape, was played.)

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, where this--you see that-

MR. COCHRAN: Well, Mr. Harris, back up a little bit. Okay. Let's back it up to the outside.

MR. COCHRAN: You see that--

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Stop it there, Mr. Harris. Thank you.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you see where it says 6-13-94? That was the date; is that correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And where it says 2:13 P.M., that should be 3:13 P.M., right?

MR. FORD: Yes.

[...]

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, is this the--do you recognize this as being the stairway leading upstairs to Mr. Simpson's home?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And that would be about 4:08 P.M. on June 13th, 1994?

MR. FORD: Yes, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. This was shot by you; isn't that right?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And this was one of the bedrooms, the children's bedrooms at the location?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now, you're now entering—it's about 4:13 P.M. you're now entering—is this Mr. Simpson's bedroom area?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And you took a photograph of a blanket there and an easy chair?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You continued on in that room. And you walked into this room; did you not?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you remember seeing this couch in that room?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Remember the fireplace in that room?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, stop right there.

MR. COCHRAN: You stood right in that room; isn't that correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And you shot toward the fireplace at that time; isn't that correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Mr. Simpson's bed was to the right; was it not?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: About 4:13 in the afternoon; is that right?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: You walked in that room--you see that--stop again. You took a photograph of something on top of the bed, is that correct, that was out?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: What are those? Do you remember what those were?

MR. FORD: It looked to me like belt or tie.

MR. COCHRAN: Maybe suspenders or something like that?

MR. FORD: Maybe.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. It was something on top of the bed; is that correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you shot that, did you?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Now-

MR. COCHRAN: Back up a little bit.

MR. COCHRAN: You continued to shoot, did you, now?

MR. FORD: This is going forward. You said back up?

MR. COCHRAN: Yeah. Well, he's going-

MR. COCHRAN: Go ahead and back it up. All right. Stop it there.

MR. COCHRAN: You see that carpet there or that rug right in front of the bed?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: You saw that rug that particular day; did you not?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And in fact, you walked past that rug when you went into the other room, into the bathroom area, didn't you?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Any socks on that rug that day, Mr. Ford?

MR. FORD: No.

MR. COCHRAN: You didn't videotape any and there were none there; is that correct?

MR. FORD: That's correct.

MR. COCHRAN: It's 4:13 P.M., about that time on June 13th, 1994 that you walked through there, right?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: And if there had been socks there, you would have taken photographs of them or video, correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. You can move it on, please.

MR. COCHRAN: There's another shot. Now, you're basically--you're shooting from the foot of that bed; is that correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: At that point, you're right on that particular--that rug or carpet there; isn't that correct?

MR. FORD: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: The foot of the bed. You didn't see any socks or anything else there, did you?

MR. FORD: No.

MR. COCHRAN: Then from that point-

MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, Mr. Harris.

MR. COCHRAN: From that point, you went on into an alcove area where there's kind of bureau I guess we can call it? A vanity I think you'd call it.

MR. FORD: Yes.

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Dean Uelman at Sanctions Hearing, 4 April 1995

WE HAVE NOTED INCONSISTENCIES BETWEEN THE DESCRIPTION OF THE DISCOVERY OF THE GLOVE, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE CLOSET OF MR. SIMPSON'S BEDROOM, AS PORTRAYED IN THE TAPE WHERE A SINGLE GLOVE WAS REMOVED, BROUGHT DOWNSTAIRS, PUT ON A TABLE AND APPEARS IN THE VIDEOTAPE. THAT IS NOT THE WAY THAT INCIDENT WAS DESCRIBED IN THE AFFIDAVIT FOR A SEARCH WARRANT WHICH WAS SUBSCRIBED TO UNDER OATH BY DETECTIVE VANNATTER BACK ON JUNE 28TH. AT THAT POINT DETECTIVE VANNATTER SAID -- AND THIS WAS THE PROBABLE CAUSE YOU WILL RECALL TO GO BACK TO MR. SIMPSON'S HOME AND EXECUTE A SECOND SEARCH WARRANT TWO WEEKS AFTER THE EXECUTION OF THE FIRST WARRANT. THE PROBABLE CAUSE INCLUDED THE ALLEGATION THAT:

"ADDITIONALLY, SINCE THE SERVICE OF THE FIRST WARRANT, OTHER OFFICERS PRESENT DURING THAT SERVICE HAVE TOLD YOUR AFFIANT THAT THEY SAW ANOTHER PAIR OF GLOVES INSIDE SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE. THESE OFFICERS HAD ALSO SEEN THE GLOVE FOUND AT THE MURDER LOCATION AND HAVE TOLD YOUR AFFIANT THAT THE GLOVES IN THE RESIDENCE APPEARED TO BE OF THE SAME TYPE AS THE ONE FROM THE CRIME SCENE.

"YOUR AFFIANT WISHES TO SEIZE THE GLOVES LEFT IN THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE BECAUSE THEY WILL TEND TO FURTHER ESTABLISH THAT THE BLOODY GLOVES RECOVERED BELONGED TO SIMPSON IN THAT HE FAVORED THIS TYPE, STYLE AND SIZE OF GLOVE.

"THESE GLOVES WERE INADVERTENTLY LEFT BEHIND AT THE SIMPSON RESIDENCE."

NOW, WE BELIEVE THAT CROSS-EXAMINATION, BOTH OF DETECTIVE VANNATTER AND THE DETECTIVES INVOLVED IN FINDING THAT GLOVE, WOULD HAVE DISCLOSED ADDITIONAL MISREPRESENTATIONS IN THE AFFIDAVIT FOR THIS SECOND WARRANT IN THAT THE VIDEOTAPE REVEALS ONE GLOVE WHEREAS THE AFFIDAVIT REFERS TO A PAIR OF GLOVES. THE AFFIDAVIT SAYS THE GLOVES WERE INADVERTENTLY LEFT BEHIND WHEN WE HAVE SINCE BEEN TOLD THAT THE DETECTIVES ACTUALLY CONFERRED WITH THE DETECTIVES IN CHARGE AND MADE A DECISION NOT TO SEIZE THE GLOVE. IT WAS NOT AN INADVERTENT LEAVING BEHIND. THEY ACTUALLY DECIDED BEFORE THEY LEFT THE PREMISES THAT THEY WOULD NOT TAKE THIS GLOVE OR THESE GLOVES, IF THERE ARE TWO.

Where's Luper's testimony? Why did you omit it?

Fung and Mazzola got back to Rockingham at around 3:30 and proceeded to collect items 11, 12, and 13 (the socks). Which corresponds to Luper's timeline.

You would have us believe that Fung and Mazzola stood around for an hour and did nothing. That's not in the testimony.

Det. Bert Luper testimony of 20 July 1995

MR. COCHRAN: Will you look at items 12, 13 and 14, just look down at those.
(The witness complies.)
MR. COCHRAN: Have you looked at the log now?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you recognize that as a log kept by the members of the Special Investigations Division regarding the collection of items at a crime scene?
MR. DARDEN: Objection to the form of the question.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Do you recognize that particular log and how it's used, sir.
MR. DARDEN: Same objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: I've never seen a log used like this before.
MR. COCHRAN: Have you ever seen a log used by the members of the Special Investigation Division at all?
DET. LUPER: No. I mean, I've never paid much attention to how they record their evidence.

MR. COCHRAN: Do you know who collected these socks allegedly on that day?
DET. LUPER: What I saw was Mr. Fung collecting them.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And what time of day did Mr. Fung collect these socks? Well, without looking at the log.
DET. LUPER: Well, there's no time on the log anyway. So it had to be in-between 3:30, 3:45, somewhere in that general area.
MR. COCHRAN: 3:30, 3:45?
DET. LUPER: Yes.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, if a--
MR. DARDEN: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: I haven't asked a question.
THE COURT: I know. It was "If a."
MR. COCHRAN: Huh? "If a." I want to phrase this question, your Honor, if I might. May I phrase the question?
THE COURT: Proceed.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to Dennis Fung, have you had occasion to see his testimony in this court before this jury regarding the time that he picked these socks up allegedly?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, I have not.
MR. COCHRAN: Have you had occasion to talk with Mr. Fung at all regarding the time these socks were picked up?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, I have not.

MR. COCHRAN: Are you aware of whether or not the foyer blood drops, the socks were picked up sequentially or in order from the standpoint of time, one being first and the other being second and something was third? Are you aware of that?
DET. LUPER: No, I'm not aware.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, your estimate is that Mr. Fung picked these socks up at--what time was that now?
DET. LUPER: Well, about 3:30, 3:45, in that general area in the afternoon.
MR. COCHRAN: And is that--do you have that written in a report anywhere?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, I do not.

MR. COCHRAN: Who do you think would have the best recollection of what the time these socks were picked up; you or Mr. Fung?
MR. DARDEN: Objection. That's argumentative. Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Well, may I ask it another way, your Honor?
MR. COCHRAN: Who do you think would be in the best position to know what time these socks were picked up; the person who collected them allegedly or you, sir?
MR. DARDEN: Same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Your Honor, I have another question I'd like to ask if I might at this point.
THE COURT: Do you want to approach before you do that.
MR. COCHRAN: Yes. Yes.
THE COURT: All right.
(A conference was held at the bench, not reported.) (The following proceedings were held in open court:)
MR. COCHRAN: Thank you, your Honor.

MR. COCHRAN: Detective Luper, do you know what time Dennis Fung collected or Dennis Fung or Andrea Mazzola collected the spots in the foyer?
DET. LUPER: Not without looking at their notes.

MR. COCHRAN: Would you like to look at their log?
MR. DARDEN: Objection, your Honor.
MR. COCHRAN: Well, if that refreshes his recollection.
THE COURT: He can use it if it will refresh his recollection.
MR. DARDEN: He never testified that he ever knew.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: May I proceed?
MR. DARDEN: Foundation.
MR. COCHRAN: Will you look at this and see what--if you can look at this and see if it refreshes your recollection as to what time they picked up the spots in the foyer?
DET. LUPER: According to their log, it said-
MR. DARDEN: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, the proper way I guess, your Honor-
MR. COCHRAN: Having looked at the log, does that refresh your recollection as to the time that Mr. Fung or Miss Mazzola picked up the--collected the spots in the foyer?
MR. DARDEN: Objection, your Honor. Lack of foundation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: I'm asking.
MR. COCHRAN: You can answer that.
DET. LUPER: It would appear by their log that they-
MR. DARDEN: Objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Again, I'll rephrase it again.

MR. COCHRAN: With regard to the document I placed before you, is your memory refreshed as to the time that Dennis Fung or Andrea Mazzola collected these spots in the foyer at Rockingham on June 13th, 1994 in the afternoon?
MR. DARDEN: Foundation, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: The log indicates--
MR. DARDEN: Pardon me, sir.
THE COURT: Yes. Wait a minute. Detective Luper, the question is, is your personal recollection refreshed as--after having read the log as to when those spots were recovered in the foyer?
DET. LUPER: No, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So you have no way of knowing at all?
DET. LUPER: No, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know whether or not that the foyer spots were collected prior to the time that you say the socks were collected?
MR. DARDEN: Your Honor, may the record reflect the witness is looking at the log?
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: Want me to remove that?
DET. LUPER: Yeah, would you? Thank you. I don't know how they were--if they were done in a certain order or sequentially. I know that Miss Mazzola and Dennis Fung were working pretty much-
MR. DARDEN: I object at this time as nonresponsive.
THE COURT: All right. Next question.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So--there was an objection to the question by Mr. Darden. So I didn't get to finish hearing it. So you don't know-- I guess my question was, do you know whether or not the spots in the foyer were collected prior to anything being collected upstairs?
DET. LUPER: I don't know.
MR. COCHRAN: You don't know. And the form that I've given you does not refresh your recollection?
DET. LUPER: No, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: And you've not spoken with either Mazzola or Fung about their testimony?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: And you don't know the times that they said?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.

MR. COCHRAN: Do you know the time that Mr. Willie Ford videoed Mr. Simpson's bedroom and there were no socks at the foot of that bed? Do you know that time?
MR. DARDEN: Objection.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: Do you know that time, sir?
DET. LUPER: I did not look at my watch on that particular day to be specific. No, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Well, you weren't in the bedroom at the time Mr. Ford was videoing the area of Mr. Simpson's bedroom?
DET. LUPER: No, I was not in the bedroom.
MR. COCHRAN: You were someplace else in the house, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. He was accompanied by some other people, not you?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. DARDEN: Assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, you mentioned, sir, that when you were downstairs, one of the reasons that you had inadvertently put down the glove that we talked about was because you were trying to follow some blood spots or wood spots or something?
DET. LUPER: Well, they appeared to be discolored discoloration on the wood floor and they appeared to be spots that were not one right after another, but fairly far apart from each other.
MR. COCHRAN: Did you pursue these spots?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: And you found out later that was not blood, was it?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: So it was kind of like a trail of no blood, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, speaking of that by the way, as a detective and as the first person up those stairs-
MR. DARDEN: Objection. That assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Well--counsel is absolutely correct.

MR. COCHRAN: As the police officer who went up the stairs after 12:00 o'clock on that date, you didn't see any blood on the stairs going up there, did you?
DET. LUPER: I didn't see any, no, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And you didn't see any blood on the carpet of Mr. Simpson's bedroom as you go in there, did you?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, I did not.
MR. COCHRAN: Now, with regard to these socks that you had seized, you didn't see any blood on those socks either, did you?
DET. LUPER: I didn't get close enough to examine them.
MR. COCHRAN: Is the answer, you didn't see any blood on the socks?
DET. LUPER: No, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And it's your testimony that you had these socks seized or asked to have them seized whatever time they were seized because they were out of place; is that right?
DET. LUPER: They were out of place and it seemed like a very good idea.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. And you had them seized; is that correct?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: And you never got very close to them at that time?
DET. LUPER: No, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: And so-- I may have asked you this. You did not have the straps on the bed seized at any point, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. Those were just left there; is that correct?
DET. LUPER: That's right, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: May I have just a moment, your Honor?
THE COURT: Certainly.
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
MR. COCHRAN: May I have just a moment, your Honor?
THE COURT: Certainly.
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
MR. COCHRAN: Just a couple other questions.

MR. COCHRAN: Few other questions. Detective Luper, again, with regard to--strike that. With regard to criminalists Fung and Mazzola, did you notice as they were doing their work at Rockingham that day, they had kind of a clipboard or something of that nature where they were logging and writing down things as they would pick up various items? Do you remember seeing that?
MR. DARDEN: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: Yes, I did.
MR. COCHRAN: And so that as they--you would see them in one particular area. They would then write something down on a piece of paper although you don't know what they were writing, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct. Yes, sir.
MR. COCHRAN: Your experience as a detective of some eight years and a 23-year member of the Los Angeles Police Department, you believe that what you saw them writing was a log that they kept consistent with keeping track of what they were collecting and the time that they were collecting these items; isn't that correct?
MR. DARDEN: Objection. Calls for speculation and it's leading, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. COCHRAN: Well, what did you think this was that they were writing down as they could collect various items?
MR. DARDEN: Objection. Irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: I felt that what they were writing down was the dimensions as to where certain items were being recovered and as to its description.
MR. COCHRAN: All right. So item--location of the item, where recovered, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: The item collected, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: The time collected?
MR. DARDEN: Objection. This is leading.
MR. COCHRAN: I'm asking.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. COCHRAN: You can answer that.
DET. LUPER: I was unaware that they were making a notation of time.

MR. COCHRAN: But it was possible, wasn't it?
MR. DARDEN: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. COCHRAN: Now, I want to make sure I understand this. You took clothes out of the hamper to have photographs taken of them and didn't seize any of those clothes, right?
DET. LUPER: That is correct.
THE COURT: Mr. Cochran, we've gone through this a number of times.
MR. COCHRAN: This is foundational, your Honor. It's foundation. Bear with me.
MR. COCHRAN: You took--you looked in the closet and you never seized anything there, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: You saw these suspenders or--strike that. You saw these straps on the bed and you never seized those, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: You took a glove from upstairs and brought it all the way downstairs and you didn't seize that either, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: It's your testimony that you saw some socks that were out of place and you instructed that be seized; is that right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. COCHRAN: And it's your best testimony before this jury that those items were seized about 3:30 to 3:45 on June 13th?
DET. LUPER: That general time frame, yes, sir.

MR. COCHRAN: All right. Thank you very kindly, your Honor. I have nothing further of this witness.
THE COURT: Mr. Darden.
MR. DARDEN: Just a few questions, your Honor.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DARDEN
MR. DARDEN: And we are talking about general time frames, aren't we, detective?
DET. LUPER: Yes, we are, sir.
MR. DARDEN: You weren't checking your watch to see when and the exact time that Mazzola and Fung picked up an item, were you?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, I was not.

MR. DARDEN: You didn't think that was necessary, did you?
MR. COCHRAN: Objection. Leading and suggestive, improper.
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
MR. DARDEN: You didn't think that was necessary, did you?
DET. LUPER: No, I did not, sir.
MR. DARDEN: I mean they're the criminalists, right?
DET. LUPER: That's correct.
MR. DARDEN: It's their job to pick up and collect the biological evidence, right?
DET. LUPER: Yes, sir.
MR. DARDEN: It's not your job, is it?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, it's not.
MR. DARDEN: You don't know the exact sequence in which everything was collected, right?
MR. COCHRAN: Asked and answered, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: That's correct.

MR. DARDEN: As far as the socks are concerned, you weren't looking for blood on the socks, were you?
DET. LUPER: No, sir, I was not.
MR. DARDEN: Okay. You didn't want to get too close to the socks, right.
MR. COCHRAN: Object to the form of that question, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
DET. LUPER: That's correct, sir.

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In reading the below, bear in mind that the prosecution was sanctioned for its repeated failure to turn over the Willie Ford video of 13 June 1994, received by Det. Bert Luper on 14 June 1994. Det. Bert Luper sequestered it in his desk drawer for three or four months (so he testified) and then moved it to a filing cabinet (so he testified). No records of possession or transfer were kept (so he testified).

According to Det. Luper, notification of the existence of the video was made March 22, 1995 to District Attorney's office, and the city attorney's office and Robbery Homicide then or the following day.

The prosecution's claimed excuse for not turning over the video, despite repeated defense requests and news reports of the presence of a videographer at Rockingham, was that the prosecution remained blissfully unaware of its existence.

The unbelieveable excuse was not believed.

The crime scene log shows Willie Ford, the videographer, arriving at 3:10. The crime scene log does not show Marcia Clark arriving or leaving. About the only thing Det. Luper is certain of is that Marcia Clark left before Willie Ford arrived.

The amazingly flexible memory of Det. Luper is truly unbelieveable.

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On 3 April 1995, Det. Bert Luper testified at a sanctions hearing:

Q: NOW, BACK TO MISS CLARK. MISS CLARK WAS THERE AND YOU TOOK HER ON A WALKTHROUGH AFTER THE SEARCH WARRANT HAD BEEN COMPLETED?
A: AFTER THE EVIDENCE HAD BEEN LOCATED, YES.

Q: RIGHT. SO THE SEARCH WARRANT HAD BEEN EXECUTED AT THIS POINT AND YOU TOOK HER -- TELL THE COURT BRIEFLY WHERE YOU TOOK HER ON THE WALK-THROUGH.
A: I TOOK HER ON THE BOTTOM LOCATION OF THE RESIDENCE, THE FIRST FLOOR, TO SHOW WHERE SOME OF THE PRESUMPTIVE TESTS I WANTED DONE, TOOK HER UPSTAIRS, SHOWED HER THE VANITY -- I MEAN NOT THE VANITY, I'M SORRY, THE LINEN CLOSET, AND SHOWED HER THE SOCKS AND THE BLOOD EVIDENCE THAT HAD BEEN FOUND IN THE BATHROOM, AND TOOK HER I THINK TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, SHOWED HER A WIRE THAT I WANTED CHECKED AND WHAT WAS IN THE TRASH CAN THERE BY THE ENTRYWAY TO THE OFFICE, I BELIEVE THERE WAS AN AIRLINE TICKET. AND THEN ON THE EXTERIOR THERE WAS A BENCH SEAT RIGHT THERE BY THE FRONT DOOR THAT HAD A LUGGAGE TAG THROWN ON ONE END OF IT, AND THAT WAS ALSO POINTED OUT TO HER.

Q: DID YOU MAKE A REPORT OF ALL OF YOUR OBSERVATIONS WITH MISS CLARK?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: DO YOU KNOW -- HAVE YOU SEEN ANY REPORT WITH REFERENCE TO YOUR TAKING HER THROUGH THE PREMISES AND NOTING THESE OBJECTS?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: YOU NEVER MADE A REPORT LIKE THAT, DID YOU?
A: NO, SIR.
Q: DID MARCIA CLARK SIGN IN ON THE LOG WHEN SHE CAME TO THAT RESIDENCE?
A: YOU WON'T FIND HER ON THAT LOG, NO, SIR.
Q: WHY WON'T WE?
A: GOOD QUESTION. I DON'T KNOW.
Q: WELL, WAS THERE ANY OTHER LOG THAT SHE SIGNED IN ON WHEN SHE CAME THERE?
A: TO THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION?
Q: YES, SIR, ROCKINGHAM?
A: NO, SIR, NOT THAT I AM AWARE OF.

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On 3 April 1995, Det. Bert Luper testified at a sanctions hearing:

MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
MS. LEWIS: JUST BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. LEWIS:

Q: DETECTIVE LUPER, ACTUALLY AT THAT POINT IN TIME YOUR ONLY PURPOSE IN HAVING THAT VIDEOTAPE TAKEN WAS FOR CIVIL LIABILITY REASONS; ISN'T THAT TRUE?
A: YES, MA'AM.

Q: AND YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION IS THAT MARCIA CLARK LEFT THE PREMISES AT ABOUT THREE O'CLOCK OR BY THREE O'CLOCK, WITHIN THAT TIME FRAME?
A: IN THAT APPROXIMATE TIME FRAME, YES, MA'AM.
Q: AND THE VIDEOGRAPHER ARRIVED APPROXIMATELY, AS WE KNOW FROM SEEING THE VIDEOTAPE, APPROXIMATELY 3:11 OR; SO, ISN'T THAT TRUE?
A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES, MA'AM.

MS. LEWIS: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. DETECTIVE LUPER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.

(BRIEF PAUSE.)

THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION, YOUR HONOR, OF MR. LUPER BEFORE HE LEAVES.
THE COURT: SURE.

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: YOU RECALL -- DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT MR. ADKINS AND MR. FORD HAD ARRIVED PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT MISS CLARK ARRIVED?
A: NO. THEY ARRIVED AFTER MISS CLARK HAD BEEN THERE AND GONE, SIR.
Q: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: DOES YOUR LOG -- OF COURSE THERE IS NO LOG THAT REFLECTS THAT, IS THERE?
MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION, VAGUE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THERE ANY LOG THAT REFLECTS THAT?
A: AS I INDICATED EARLIER, I DON'T HAVE HER CHECKED IN OR CHECKED OUT AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION AND I AM GIVING YOU THE BEST RECOLLECTION THAT I CAN.
Q: JUST ONE MORE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. SO IF YOU HAVE THEM IN AT 3:10 IN THE AFTERNOON, IT IS POSSIBLE MISS CLARK MAY HAVE BEEN THERE AS LATE AS 3:10, ISN'T IT?
MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
MR. COCHRAN: I AM ASKING.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IT IS POSSIBLE, ISN'T IT?
A: NO, BECAUSE SHE WASN'T THERE -- SHE AND I STUCK TOGETHER -- EXCUSE ME -- "STUCK TOGETHER" IS A POOR USE OF THE WORD. WE WERE TOGETHER THROUGH THAT TIME WHILE SHE WAS THERE AND I DID SEE HER LEAVE BEFORE THEY ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, SIR.
Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU ARE SURE ABOUT THAT, RIGHT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT WHEN SHE TOLD US THAT SHE CAME PERHAPS AT 2:00, 2:10, STAYED UNTIL THREE O'CLOCK, THOSE ARE JUST ESTIMATES?
MS. LEWIS: MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. HE STATED 2:20.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: 2:20?
A: THAT IS MY RECOLLECTION, YES.

Where's Luper's testimony? Why did you omit it?

I had not finished presenting evidence when you posted at #300, OK. I read through all the testimony. The socks were collected between 4:30 and 4:40.

You claimed you read all the testimony and then conceded the point.

And at #299, you stated, "Next time make a po[i]nt and back it up with specific testimony, not the entire court transcript. If you don't, I will not read it or respond."

I posted relevant Luper testimony separately at #309, addressed it to all, and you can read it, or not read it, as you choose.

You can post as much or as little testimony as you choose. So far you have posted nothing.

Detective Bert Luper said he believes Fung collected the socks between 3:30 and 3:45 p.m., while Fung said he believed he picked up the socks between 4:30 and 4:40 p.m. although he was not exactly sure of the time.

Why waste time with the "recollection" of Bert Luper who kept no log, took no notes, and can't recall the time a single piece of evidence was collected, except for his vague and convenient memory of Item 13?

The primary collector of the blood stains was Andrea Mazzola; not Bert Luper who collected none, and not Dennis Fung who collected only a few. Andrea Mazzola kept the official log, recorded times of collection, and consulted her watch in doing so.

Dennis Fung testified on 28 April 1995 that he was not 100% sure that Item #13 was collected before Item #14, but that he thought it was. Andrea Mazzola kept the log and was certain. Dennis Fung did not change his recollection of the time frame for Items #12-14 being from 1630 to 1640.

[Testimony of Andrea Mazzola, 25 April 1995]

MR. NEUFELD: And in contrast to those first couple of crime scenes, Miss Mazzola, where you were present in this case on June 13th of 1994, you were in fact the primary collector of blood stains, as opposed to Dennis Fung; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.
MR. NEUFELD: And the Simpson case was your very first case in which you were the primary collector of blood stain evidence; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

[Testimony of Andrea Mazzola, 25 April 1995]

MR. NEUFELD: You testified on August 23rd, 1994--were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? "Question: And which--I'm sorry. At Bundy again. At Bundy again, were there certain bloodstains that you collected and other bloodstains that were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And which bloodstains were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: I believe he collected the red stains that were near the shoeprints that were made on the walkway. "Question: Would you please look at your notes and tell me which numbers those are? "Question: And when you say that, you say he collected the actual foot--shoeprints or he collected alleged drops that were near the shoeprints? "Answer: He if I remember correctly took swatches of the red stains that were constituting the footprint itself. "Question: Can you tell us which ones those were, please? "Answer: Property items 55 and 56. "Question: And that is it? "Answer: Yes. "Question: All other bloodstains at the Bundy crime scene were collected by you, ma'am? "Answer: Yes. "And while he collected 55 and 56, were you collecting some of your bloodstains? "Answer: Yes." Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers under oath on August 23rd, 1994?

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

Ms. Mazzola kept the official record, collected nearly all the blood stains, consulted her watch, and recorded the times of collection, as required. Her records were clear and contemporaneous with the events.

MS. MAZZOLA: After item 12, item 13 was picked up.
MR. GOLDBERG: And after item no. 13, what was picked up?
MS. MAZZOLA: Item 14.
MR. GOLDBERG: And who physically collected item no. 13?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung.
MR. GOLDBERG: What time was item no. 14 collected?
MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately 1640.
THE COURT: And the record should reflect that Miss Mazzola is referring to her notes.
MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: And were you referring to the crime scene identification checklist?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I was.
MR. GOLDBERG: Now, is there a time for 13 on that list or is it just 12 and 14?
MS. MAZZOLA: Just 12 and 14.
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would just like to clarify something before I ask my next question.
THE COURT: Yes. At the sidebar with the court reporter, please.
(The following proceedings were held at the bench:)
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Goldberg, what do you need to clarify?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I know on 15 and 16, the airline ticket and the baggage claim--
THE COURT: Oh, no, not this again.
MR. GOLDBERG: That's why I wanted to approach, so I can make sure I'm not going to go--we've had testimony there was a 15 and 16 collected at 5 o'clock, but that's it, which from my view, it sort of went beyond the Court's--

If Bert Luper's wacko bullshit were correct, Fung and Mazzola collected 12-14 between 1530 - 1545 and then impersonated the walking dead until they stumbled upon Items 15 and 16 at 5:00.

Let us also recall the testimony of Dennis Fung on 22 June 1994, only eight (8) days after the evidence was collected, and all shone sparkling bright in the memory of Mr. Fung, before uncertainty set in:

A. I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY HOURS A BLOOD DROP IS OLD; HOWEVER, I CAN TELL YOU ON THIS DAY, WHEN WE WERE AT THE CRIME SCENE OF MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE IN THE MORNING, THE BLOOD DROPS APPEARED TO BE FAIRLY FRESH. THEY HAD A REDDISH TINGE TO THEM.

HOWEVER, BY THE END OF THE DAY WHEN WE RETURNED AROUND 4:00 O'CLOCK OR 5:00 O'CLOCK, AROUND THERE, THE SAME BLOOD DROPS WERE A DARK BROWN.

Q. DID YOU FORM ANY -- WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU WERE COLLECTING THOSE BLOOD DROPS?

A. THE BLOOD DROPS AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE WERE RECOVERED IN THE EARLY MORNING, AROUND 8:00 O'CLOCK.

Q. AND WHAT ABOUT THE BLOOD DROPS AT THE CRIME SCENE AT 875 SOUTH BUNDY DRIVE?

A. THOSE WERE COLLECTED BETWEEN THE HOURS OF 11:00 O'CLOCK AND 4:00 O'CLOCK.

Q. SO THOSE WERE COLLECTED AFTERWARDS, AFTER THE BLOOD DROPS WERE COLLECTED AT MR. SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE?

A. YES. EXCEPT FOR THE BLOOD STAINS THAT WERE COLLECTED INSIDE OF MR. SIMPSON'S HOUSE. THOSE WERE COLLECTED IN THE LATE AFTERNOON.

Q. WERE THOSE THE LAST TO BE COLLECTED?

A. ON THAT DAY, YES.

Bert Luper cannot be seen as the purveyor of the best evidence of the collection times. He kept no notes, and his expressed as extremely vague or nonexistent, time after time.

Q: BY MS. LEWIS: WERE YOU PRESENT WITH THE VIDEOGRAPHER WHEN HE WAS VIDEOTAPING THE MASTER BEDROOM?
A: NO, MA'AM.

Bert Luper testimony at a hearing, 3 Apr 1995

- - - - - - - - - -

Q: AND DO YOU HAVE AN INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION OF EXACTLY WHEN THE VIDEOGRAPHER ARRIVED AT THE CRIME SCENE?
A: NOT AN INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE CRIME SCENE LOG.

Bert Luper testimony at a hearing, 3 Apr 1995

- - - - - - - - - -

FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COCHRAN:

Q: YOU RECALL -- DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT MR. ADKINS AND MR. FORD HAD ARRIVED PRIOR TO THE TIME THAT MISS CLARK ARRIVED?
A: NO. THEY ARRIVED AFTER MISS CLARK HAD BEEN THERE AND GONE, SIR.
Q: ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: DOES YOUR LOG -- OF COURSE THERE IS NO LOG THAT REFLECTS THAT, IS THERE?
MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION, VAGUE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THERE ANY LOG THAT REFLECTS THAT?
A: AS I INDICATED EARLIER, I DON'T HAVE HER CHECKED IN OR CHECKED OUT AT THE ROCKINGHAM LOCATION AND I AM GIVING YOU THE BEST RECOLLECTION THAT I CAN.
Q: JUST ONE MORE QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. SO IF YOU HAVE THEM IN AT 3:10 IN THE AFTERNOON, IT IS POSSIBLE MISS CLARK MAY HAVE BEEN THERE AS LATE AS 3:10, ISN'T IT?
MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
MR. COCHRAN: I AM ASKING.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: IT IS POSSIBLE, ISN'T IT?
A: NO, BECAUSE SHE WASN'T THERE -- SHE AND I STUCK TOGETHER -- EXCUSE ME -- "STUCK TOGETHER" IS A POOR USE OF THE WORD. WE WERE TOGETHER THROUGH THAT TIME WHILE SHE WAS THERE AND I DID SEE HER LEAVE BEFORE THEY ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, SIR.
Q: ALL RIGHT. SO YOU ARE SURE ABOUT THAT, RIGHT?
A: YES, SIR.
Q: ALL RIGHT. SO THAT WHEN SHE TOLD US THAT SHE CAME PERHAPS AT 2:00, 2:10, STAYED UNTIL THREE O'CLOCK, THOSE ARE JUST ESTIMATES?
MS. LEWIS: MISSTATES THE TESTIMONY. HE STATED 2:20.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: 2:20?
A: THAT IS MY RECOLLECTION, YES.
Q: THE LOG INDICATES THEY ARRIVED ABOUT 3:10; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
MS. LEWIS: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO WHO.
Q: BY MR. COCHRAN: ADKINS AND FORD?
A: THAT'S CORRECT, YES, SIR.

Bert Luper testimony at a hearing, 3 Apr 1995

Fung and Mazzola got back to Rockingham at around 3:30 and proceeded to collect items 11, 12, and 13 (the socks). Which corresponds to Luper's timeline.

No, it does not.

Bert Luper expressed no timeline. Item #11 was picked up outside before entering the Rockingham residence in the afternoon. Luper never made any reference to it. Fung was not even present to observe. Item #12 was the first item collected inside the residence upon afternoon return to Rockingham. Luper did not know when Item #12 was collected, or if it was collected before or after Item #13. On everything but Item #13, Det. Luper sounds like Sgt. Shultz.

[Andrea Mazzola testimony 26 April 1995]

MR. NEUFELD: Now, when you first got back to Rockingham, Miss Mazzola, the first place you inspected was the exterior south side of Mr. Simpson's residence; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And while you were down inspecting and examining that location of Mr. Simpson's property, you noticed a red mark on a wire hanging down; did you not?
MS. MAZZOLA: It was brought to my attention that there was a red mark on a wire back there.
MR. NEUFELD: And who was it that brought that to your attention?
MS. MAZZOLA: I can't remember if it was Mr. Fung or a detective.
MR. NEUFELD: And after it was brought to your attention, did you then return to the front of the house to go get your stain collection kit?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And then once you got the stain collection kit, you alone went back to the side of the house to collect that stain; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And that reddish discoloration that you collected on that wire, that became item no. 11; did it not?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you collected that item no. 11 without Dennis Fung even being present to observe; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

Luper's ridiculous testimony is more notable for what he claimed he did not know, than for what he claimed to know about the socks.

If Burt Luper's testimony is to be believed:

He recalls:

• Item 13, the socks, were collected by Dennis Fung in the general timeframe between 1530 - 1545.

• Marcia Clark was there.

• He pursued a trail of spots that turned out to be a trail of no blood.

• He saw no blood on the stairs, he saw no blood on the carpet, he saw no blood on the socks.

• He seized the socks because they looked out of place.

• He did not seize the clothing in the washing machine.

As for the clothing in the washing machine not seized, Marcia Clark wrote,

I was studying a picture of Dennis Fung crouched near the laundry hamper in Simpson's master bathroom. He was holding something dark in his hand. I looked closer. Could it be? It had to be. Jesus! It was the dark sweatshirt Kato had described Simpson wearing when they drove to McDonald's! Why hadn't anyone told me about this? Those sweats had to be tested for blood immediately. Unless of course they were never seized.

Clark, Without a Doubt, 376.

Mark Fuhrman wrote that the sweats were discovered by his partner, Brad Roberts.

The authors of the June 28 warrant seem to be trying to cover up mistakes made during the execution of the June 13 warrant. I know because I was there and watched the evidence discovery during both warrants. With one exception—the request to search Simpson's Bentley for the "absence of blood"—the entire second warrant sought permission to search for items that had already been found, but never collected.

[...]

And his discovery of the sweats was no secret. Brad and I saw the sweats, as did two RHD detectives, as well as Dennis Fung and the video photographer. As the detective in charge of the investigation, Phil Vanatter would have been informed about the sweats. But in the second warrant affidavit it clearly states that "your affiant did not know which specific clothing to look for and can no longer remember whether clothing of that description was present at the location, as literally hundreds of items of clothing were seen. Your affiant now wishes to examine the clothing in the residence for specific black cotton type sweat suit described, and if found, to examine that clothing more closely for traces of blood."

The words "can no longer remember" seem comical, as there was a videotape of the sweats, and at least six people who saw them in the washing machine.

The words, "to examine that clothing more closely for traces of blood," seems an odd way to describe a first look at an item. By using "more closely" it would almost appear that they had already been inspected at an earlier time.

Fuhrman, Murder in Brentwood, paperback, 326.

And for what he does not know or recall:

• He does not know when Item #12 was collected, or in what order 12, 13, and 14 were collected.

• He could not say when Item #12, the spots in the foyer were collected without looking at their notes.

• Looking at the log did not refresh his memory. Regarding Item #12, by his personal knowledge, he had no way of identifying who collected the spots or when.

• He did not know whether the spots in the foyer were collected before anything was collected upstairs.

• He did not know the time when Willie Ford videoed Mr. Simpson's bedroom and there were no socks at the foot of the bed.

• As a detective for eight years, and a 23-year member of the LAPD, when the criminalists were writing on their evidence collection sheet, he was unaware that they were making a notation of time items were collected.

Det. Luper kept no notes of anything.

The actual testimony does not support your unsupported opinion.

3:40 is the time that Andrea Mazzola contemporaneously recorded, in writing, the collection of Item 11. That was on the side of the house, outdoors, near the garage. She testified about glancing at her watch to verify the time.

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have any notes with you that you can use to give us the time that you collected the first item of evidence once you returned to Rockingham in the afternoon?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I do.
MR. GOLDBERG: Can you tell us? Do you have it memorized or do you need something?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't have it memorized.
MR. GOLDBERG: Please tell us what you are referring to to give us that information.
MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. I'm referring to the evidence collection sheet.
MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I am sorry. I'll object. I would say there has to be a proper foundation laid before she refreshes her recollection. She hasn't done that.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Okay. This says 1540.
MR. GOLDBERG: So that's 3:40?
MS. MAZZOLA: 3:40.
MR. GOLDBERG: Was the notation as to the time in your handwriting or Mr. Fung's?
MS. MAZZOLA: My handwriting.
MR. GOLDBERG: And when you made that notation, how did you do it? Did you ask someone or look at your watch or what?
MS. MAZZOLA: I think I just glanced at my watch.

[Mazzola testimony, 20 Apr 1995]

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. GOLDBERG: What time was item no. 14 collected?
MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately 1640.
THE COURT: And the record should reflect that Miss Mazzola is referring to her notes.
MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: And were you referring to the crime scene identification checklist?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I was.

[Mazzola testimony, 20 Apr 1995]

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Thank you. All right. And was there an item no. 15 and an item no. 16 that were collected? And just answer that yes or no.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: And what time were those items collected?
MS. MAZZOLA: I thought at approximately 5 o'clock.
MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And that was according to your crime scene identification checklist?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

[Mazzola testimony, 20 Apr 1995]

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, after collecting item no. 12, what was the next item number that you collected, that was collected in your presence?
MS. MAZZOLA: May I check my notes?
MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.
(Brief pause.)
MS. MAZZOLA: After item 12, item 13 was picked up.
MR. GOLDBERG: And after item no. 13, what was picked up?
MS. MAZZOLA: Item 14.

[Mazzola testimony, 20 Apr 1995]

- - - - - - - - - -

Q: APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WAS ITEM NO. 12 COLLECTED?
A: THAT WAS COLLECTED AT APPROXIMATELY 4:30.
Q: ALL RIGHT. NOW, AFTER COLLECTING ITEM NO. 12, DID YOU GO UPSTAIRS IN THE LOCATION?
A: YES, I DID.
Q: DO YOU RECALL WHAT WAS THE NEXT ITEM OF EVIDENCE THAT YOU COLLECTED?
A: THE NEXT ITEM WAS A PAIR OF SOCKS IN THE MASTER BEDROOM.

[Dennis Fung testimony, 3 Apr 1995]

- - - - - - - - - -

Dennis Fung, 18 April 1995

In this section Dennis Fung provides testimonial evidence of when the magic socks were collected.

MR. GOLDBERG: And what time was 12 collected, approximately, according to the crime scene identification checklist?
MR. FUNG: According to the checklist, it was collected at 4:30.

MR. GOLDBERG: All right. And do you recall my asking you on recross whether you were sure about whether 13 was collected before 14?
MR. FUNG: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: Are you a hundred percent sure?
MR. FUNG: Not a hundred percent sure, no.
MR. GOLDBERG: Which one do you think was collected first?
MR. FUNG: I think the socks and item 13 were collected first.
MR. GOLDBERG: Before 14?
MR. FUNG: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: But you can't be a hundred percent sure?
MR. FUNG: I'm not a hundred percent sure.

MR. GOLDBERG: When was 14, the item in the bathroom, master bathroom, collected, that stain?
MR. FUNG: That stain was collected around 4:40.
MR. GOLDBERG: So you are saying, I believe, that the socks were collected after 4:30--well, between 4:30 and 4:40, approximately?
MR. FUNG: In that general time frame, yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: And as far as you are concerned, Mr. Fung, does it make the slightest bit of difference that you can figure out, when they were collected within that general time frame?
MR. FUNG: No, it doesn't make any difference to me.

- - - - - - - - - -

MR. SCHECK: "Question: And then the next item was a red stain from the foyer area inside Rockingham, correct? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And that one was collected at 4:30? "Answer: Yes. "And/or thereabouts--"Question: Or thereabouts? "And the next item you collected were the socks? "Answer: Yes. "But there is no time indicated for that? "Answer: That's correct. "And the next item after you--after that you indicated was a red stain that was found in the master bathroom? "Answer: Yes. "And that time is at 4:40? "Answer: Yes. "So I believe it was your testimony on direct examination that you collected the socks sometime between 4:30 and 4:40? "Answer: About then, yes."
MR. SCHECK: Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers?
MR. FUNG: Yes.

[Dennis Fung testimony, 18 Apr 1995]

You would have us believe that Fung and Mazzola stood around for an hour and did nothing. That's not in the testimony.

You have not provided any testimony except your own drivel. Zip. Zero. Nada. Just your own commentary.

The first item collected inside the house was at 4:30. Ms. Mazzola testified about what she was doing between 3:40 and 4:30.

There was no time to do the inspection after the evidence collection upstairs.

Items 15 and 16 were collected downstairs at about 5:00. At 5:11, a video shows Fung and Mazzola putting items in the truck in preparation for leaving.

(At 11:37 A.M., People's exhibit 186, a videotape, was played.)
MR. GOLDBERG: If we could just stop for one second. We're at frame 17:11.
MR. GOLDBERG: So if we assume that this is correct, this would be 5:11?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. GOLDBERG: And in this scene, what are you and criminalist Fung doing?
MS. MAZZOLA: We are putting items of evidence in the back of the crime scene truck.
MR. GOLDBERG: And would these be the items of evidence that you had collected in the afternoon at Rockingham?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. GOLDBERG: Now, are you placing anything in addition to the evidence itself in the truck at this time?
MS. MAZZOLA: Our kits.

[Mazzola testimony 20 Apr 1995]

MR. NEUFELD: And once you entered the house after you collected item 11, the first item that you collected inside the house was item no. 12; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Those would be the drops of blood that you found in the foyer of Mr. Simpson's home?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And before you collected item no. 12, you did an inspection of the first floor of the house; did you not?
MS. MAZZOLA: I can't remember if we inspected first or picked up first.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. Well, what time did you actually pick up item no. 12? Did you record that in your notes?
MS. MAZZOLA: Let's see. Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And what time was that?
MS. MAZZOLA: 1630.
MR. NEUFELD: That would be 3:30--3:30. No. 4:30, 4:30 in the afternoon.
MS. MAZZOLA: 4:30.
MR. NEUFELD: Thank you. And either before or after you picked up item 12, you did do an inspection of the first floor of the house looking for bloody clothing; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: For blood in general.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. Looking for bloodstains?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Looking for blood smears?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Looking for flecks of dry blood?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you examined the kitchen, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you examined the kitchen sink?
MS. MAZZOLA: I did not personally.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, did you--do you know whether Dennis Fung examined the kitchen sink?
MR. GOLDBERG: No foundation, personal knowledge.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Personally I don't know if he did or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Did you examine the laundry room?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you examine the living room?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And the dining room?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree that except for the several drops that you found right in the foyer inside the front door, that there were no bloodstains found anywhere on the first floor of that house?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And that there was no blood smears found anywhere on the first floor of that house?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And that there were no blood flakes, flakes of dry blood found anywhere on the first floor of that house?
MS. MAZZOLA: We did not find any.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, that's what you were looking for, weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you were taught, ma'am, looking for blood evidence to examine the location in a systematic way; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: This has been asked and answered.
THE COURT: It is redundant.
MR. NEUFELD: Not to the inside of the house.
THE COURT: Yes, it is.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.
THE COURT: Especially with negative results.
MR. NEUFELD: And after you inspected the first floor, you went up to the second floor; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And did you inspect counters?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you inspect light switches?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you inspect the shelves in Mr. Simpson's closet?
MS. MAZZOLA: As the shelves themselves or the contents? What--
MR. NEUFELD: Just the front of the shelves.
MS. MAZZOLA: I--
MR. NEUFELD: For any sign of blood.
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if we looked at the front of the shelves or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you look at knobs on the drawers?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: And no flakes of dry blood were found in those locations that I just enumerated to you; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And no smears of wet blood were found in those locations that I just enumerated to you?
MS. MAZZOLA: We did not find any.
MR. NEUFELD: One moment.
(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel and Defendant.)
MR. NEUFELD: And while you were there, Miss Mazzola, did you inspect either the intercom or the telephone to see whether or not there were any bloodstains on it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I did not personally, no.
MR. NEUFELD: Do you know whether Dennis Fung did?
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not know personally if he did or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, are telephones one of the locations that you were taught at the SID mini academy to examine for the presence of blood?
MS. MAZZOLA: We were not taught to look at the phone. We were taught to look at things in general.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, up on the second floor in Mr. Simpson's bedroom, were you shown a pair of dark socks on the floor?
MS. MAZZOLA: There were a pair of dark socks on the floor.

[Mazzola testimony, 28 Apr 1995]

You have not provided any testimony except your own drivel.

No need. If I add up all your posts, I think I have the entire trial.

You have not provided any testimony except your own drivel.

No need. If I add up all your posts, I think I have the entire trial.

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#308. To: nolu chan (#307)

Detective Bert Luper said he believes Fung collected the socks between 3:30 and 3:45 p.m., while Fung said he believed he picked up the socks between 4:30 and 4:40 p.m. although he was not exactly sure of the time.

Where's Luper's testimony? Why did you omit it?

Fung and Mazzola got back to Rockingham at around 3:30 and proceeded to collect items 11, 12, and 13 (the socks). Which corresponds to Luper's timeline.

You would have us believe that Fung and Mazzola stood around for an hour and did nothing. That's not in the testimony.

misterwhite posted on 2017-07-04 10:07:57 ET

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Same old, same old. You bitch when I have not yet gotten around to posting the testimony of Bert Luper, and then you bitch when I post it, pointing out that his testimony was hilariously absurd.

You have claimed to have read all the testimony. And now you claim I have posted the entire trial. Since you have never watched or read the testimony, it is my pleasure to inform you that the trial transcript is about 20,000 pages.

Your mission impossible, which you chose to accept, is to show that the jury at the criminal trial had sufficient evidence before it to justify returning a verdict of guilty.

You want more cowbell? I'll give you more cowbell.

Los Angeles, California; Tuesday, April 25, 1995 1:30 P.M.

MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, also there were some legal issues as to matters that they would like to use during cross-examination, but perhaps bring up before the jury comes back.
THE COURT: Such as? Why don't you move that easel back.
MR. NEUFELD: Toward you, you mean?
THE COURT: Just move it back so when the jury comes in, they don't have to step over it. Thank you. All right. Let's proceed. Let's have the jurors, please.
MR. GOLDBERG: Can we bring up those issues, your Honor?
THE COURT: I haven't seen anything yet.
MR. GOLDBERG: I don't understand. Well, one of the issues is the Defense would like to use a demonstration video that the Prosecution created, which is a video that was done simultaneously to the demonstration boards of the blood collection. And I don't object to the use of the video portion of the tape, per say, although it is probably not relevant, but there is an audio portion of the tape that basically doesn't pertain to anything other than my own conversations with the cameraman and with one of the criminalists as to how best to create that evidence, how best to edit it, how best to present it to the jury, and we ended up never using it. Probably I should not have released those comments to the Defense on the ground that they are privileged work product, but I was confident that there was so little to them that I just gave them the entire tape and didn't realize until later that I shouldn't have done so.
THE COURT: Mr. Neufeld.
MR. GOLDBERG: But at any rate, I don't see any relevancy to them and I don't know why counsel would want to play those.
THE COURT: Mr. Neufeld.
MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, may I ask Miss Mazzola to please step out during this discussion?
THE COURT: Sure. How long is this videotape?

(Miss Mazzola exits the courtroom.)

MR. GOLDBERG: It is about--
MR. NEUFELD: Seven, eight minutes maybe.
THE COURT: Do you intend on having the audio portion with counsel's comments?
MR. NEUFELD: Absolutely, your Honor, because--they are not just counsel's comments, your Honor; they are counsel's instructions to the witness on what to do at certain points. And not only is counsel giving instructions on what to do, but counsel is actually conveying certain important messages of bias to the witness during the course of that videotape.
THE COURT: When do you plan on using the videotape?
MR. NEUFELD: Maybe--maybe in about 45 minutes.
THE COURT: Let's see the tape.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

(Brief pause.)
(At 1:35 P.M. a videotape was played.)

THE COURT: Turn the sound up.

(The videotape continues playing.)
(At 1:45 the tape concludes.)

THE COURT: Mr. Neufeld.
MR. NEUFELD: Thank you, your Honor. I take it from what Mr. Goldberg said he is not objecting to the playing of the tape, he is objecting to the sound portion, so I will restrict my comment to the sound portion. Your Honor, the portion I believe Mr. Goldberg is concerned with and doesn't want to be played for the jury goes as follows, we made actually a transcript of the one small segment which we believe is certainly relevant and should be played to the jury. And although we are not opposed to playing the rest of the sound track, it goes like this: By Mr. Goldberg. "Is there any way we can get out that little part where she dropped some of the swatches? "Answer: I don't think I got it. "MR. GOLDBERG: Oh, you didn't?" Then by the camera operator: "But if it is on there, it is on there. "MR. GOLDBERG: No. I mean is there any way you can edit it out? "Camera: Of course. If it is on there, I will edit it out." By Mr. Goldberg. "But then will you have a gap? "Camera: No, it will be like two pieces of video cut together." One second.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

THE COURT: Mr. Goldberg.
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, I guess I'm not going to be winning the award at the Cannes Film Festival this year.
THE COURT: I would say Morris Dees is not shaking in his boots.
MR. GOLDBERG: It is kind of like watching ice cream melt, and I don't mean Haagen Das. And your Honor, what I've heard from the Defense here is really absurd and I think it is fairly clear what they are trying to do, and it should not be permitted, and what we have here is where the People are creating a piece of demonstrative evidence. And that is all that this is. It is clear from all of my comments that that is going on, including comments like "You don't need to collect more than one swatch because one is enough for them to get the general idea" or "Can you please turn this way so we can get a better shot of you filling out the card." We are entitled to create this piece of evidence and make it as perfect as we like. We are entitled, as I at one point thought of doing, adding graphics, adding sound, subtracting from the tape, adding to the tape. I could have scored it to the theme music of mission impossible if I had wanted to, which I actually thought of doing. We are entitled to create this any way we want to and what counsel is really trying to do is he is trying to suggest that there is something wrong or untoward that has gone on here in terms of the creation of this documentary piece of evidence. The distinction is that we are not documenting an event. We are not trying to record a historical event. What we are trying to illustrate--
THE COURT: Isn't the issue, though, work product and demonstration of demonstrative evidence? Isn't that the issue?
MR. GOLDBERG: I realize this, your Honor, and it is work product and I believed this was the kind of thing that Defense would not try to use that, there was no reason to redact it out, and then subsequently changed my mind after the tape had already been released to them. , I don't think it is relevant, I'm sure Mr. Neufeld would agree, and I probably should have, and it is my work product and my discussion and creation of an exhibit. And more importantly it is not relevant. I point out what we have in a chronology is where we have a situation that I talked about doing something that I'm entirely within my rights to do, but did not do, and maintained the evidence unedited and then turned it over unedited to the Defense. So the idea that they would come forward and try to argue that there is some impropriety where we have a situation where I am discussing doing something that I am entitled to do that I didn't do, and the only reason they know I even discussed it is because I turned it over for them and maintained it, and for them now to try to introduce this into this case as an issue is grossly improper and should not be allowed and it doesn't have any relevance whatsoever.
THE COURT: Briefly.
MR. NEUFELD: Fine. Two things, your Honor. Just so the record at least on how this tape is received is clear, in fact--
THE COURT: Counsel, I don't care how you got it. You got it.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.
THE COURT: The issue is how you get over the work product problem and how do you get over a 352 objection.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, it is not work product, your Honor, because what we are introducing it for is simply his statements in the presence of this witness to influence her testimony on the witness stand. And any statements that a lawyer makes in the presence of a witness, which has the effect of influencing her testimony, is admissible because it goes to her bias. That is how it comes in. And even if it wasn't his intent, even if it wasn't his deliberate intent to influence her testimony, it has that effect and we are allowed to argue that it has this effect to this jury. That is an inference that they are permitted to draw. Clearly the statements were made in her presence. That is the point. That is not work product. And in terms of 352, I don't see that as a big problem here, your Honor, because certainly it has probative value as to whether or not he said in her presence, you know, let's try and get rid of the portion where you are making this mistake, where you are dropping these swatches. That is a very important message being conveyed to her that the Prosecution in this case wants to make this whole procedure look as simple as possible and wants to cover up any kind of mistakes that can and do happen.
THE COURT: Which is why they gave you the tape with her dropping the swatches.
MR. NEUFELD: They gave me the tape and they didn't even know it had the sound track on it. Initially I thought it was silent as well and he was going to edit out his comments, your Honor, and then we played it up and we found the volume was there. That is why. The reason he turned over the tape, your Honor, is because you ordered him to. You may recall we went into chambers and he said he had this tape and I laid a foundation with you and you said, "Mr. Goldberg, turn over this tape now."
THE COURT: Counsel, as I indicated to you, I'm not interested in how you got it. You got it.
MR. NEUFELD: I understand.

And, so it came to pass that prosecutor Hank Goldberg turned over the tape with the audio track where he conferred with the videographer on editing out Mazzola's goofs. The jury did not get treated to Goldman's audio track, but they got Neufeld and Mazzola doing a stop action review of the tape. It would be a daunting task to count the number of goofs. As well, the admissions of the lack of supervision, training and procedures was telling. And Mazzola collected almost every drop of blood at Bundy and Rockingham. Neufeld firmly established the problems endemic to the LAPD crime lab and its criminalists.

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, let's just jump ahead a second to the June 14th search you did of the Bronco at the print shed. Okay?
MS. MAZZOLA: Okay.
MR. NEUFELD: And I believe you mentioned that you did what is known as a phenolphthalein test on the accelerator, the brake pedal and the emergency brake pad; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you did those three tests, did you place a single swab of cotton on each of those three items? Is that what you did?
MS. MAZZOLA: I was told just to use one swab and test all three.
MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, what?
MS. MAZZOLA: I was told to use one swab and test all three.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you use one swab for all three? Is that what you are saying?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So in other words, you used the same swab on the accelerator, the brake pad and the emergency brake; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Who was it who told you that you should use the same swab to do a presumptive test for blood on three separate items?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung.
MR. NEUFELD: Prior to your going out there on June 14th had you received any instruction or training on the use of the phenolphthalein test?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you received that training, Miss Mazzola, didn't they tell you that you should use separate swabs on separate items?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, when Mr. Fung, your supervisor that day on June 14th, told you to use the same single swab on three different items to test for the presence of blood, did you say to him, "Mr. Fung, Dennis, this is not what I'm supposed to be doing"? Did you say that?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: He was your supervisor that day; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And so you just followed his directions; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

Well, that was entertaining and educational about the LAPD criminalists. Just on that day alone, there are another 100 pages equaling and exceeding it. When you doubt the LAPD could contaminate the evidence, let them made a demonstration tape showing off their collection procedure. And let a prosecutor add an audio track.

And, so it came to pass that prosecutor Hank Goldberg turned over the tape with the audio track where he conferred with the videographer on editing out Mazzola's goofs.

ON A DEMONSTRATION TAPE, for crying out loud.

"MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So in other words, you used the same swab on the accelerator, the brake pad and the emergency brake; is that right?"

What's the big deal?. It was a phenolphthalein test for blood, not a DNA test.

"MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So in other words, you used the same swab on the accelerator, the brake pad and the emergency brake; is that right?"

What's the big deal?. It was a phenolphthalein test for blood, not a DNA test.

After using one swab for multiple items, you are unable to say what tested positive.

When using one swab for multiple items, it is impossible to use a meaningful negative control.

And, instructions for the pheno test explicitly inform one not to use a swab to test more than one item.

MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, in your training at SID did they ever teach you to use what are called negative controls?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Could you please tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what a negative control is.
MS. MAZZOLA: It is using the same item, be it a swatch or a swab, that you would use to collect a stain or to run a test. You run the test on the--a brand new different swab. It should be negative since nothing has been collected on the swab.
MR. NEUFELD: And, ma'am, when you did the phenolphthalein test with the single swab on the brake pedal, the emergency brake and the accelerator, you didn't use any negative control to see whether or not something else other than blood might be generating a false positive reaction, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: And when you received that training, Miss Mazzola, didn't they tell you that you should use separate swabs on separate items?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

It was a problem in followup questioning on 27 April 1995

MR. GOLDBERG: Thank you. Now, turning to the Bronco search and collection of evidence, you said that on the pedals, that you used the same swab for the purposes of the phenolphtalein test?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. GOLDBERG: Why was that done?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung just wanted to see if the pedals had been manipulated as if someone had driven the Bronco.
MR. GOLDBERG: As opposed to what?
MS. MAZZOLA: As opposed to just getting in the Bronco and then getting right back out.

The prosecutors should learn to make up better b.s. stories. As brought out by Peter Neufeld, such a test is useless to establish whether anyone drove the car rather than just got in and back out. If there were blood only on the emergency brake, but not on either the accelerator or brake pedal, how would it prove somebody drove the car?

It was a big problem when Peter Neufeld played the tape for the jury and questioned Andrea Mazzola, the sometimes unsupervised trainee who was the primary collector of the blood drops at Bundy and Rockingham.

A prosecution expert, demonstrating to the jury that she did not know what she was doing, is a problem for the prosecution. Demonstrating that the prosecution was playing hide-the-ball is another problem.

MAZZOLA, testimony 25 April 1995, VIDEO

MR. NEUFELD: Do you recognize the photographs contained on this board?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And in fact that is you in the photographs; is it not?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.
MR. NEUFELD: And are these a series of still photographs which you are attempting to capture different aspects of the collection process?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Well, is there a time when you were taken out by the Prosecutors in this case and asked to do a demonstration?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And was a Prosecutor present?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Mr. Goldberg?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.
MR. NEUFELD: And were other members of SID present as well?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Was a camera operator there as well?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Both a still camera operator and a video camera operator?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And have you ever been asked to do a demonstration of stain collection before on any other case?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, aside from Mr. Goldberg being present and a still photographer and a video photographer, were there other people present?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And did they assist you or at least give you instructions during the course of this demonstration?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would object to that.
THE COURT: Vague.
MR. NEUFELD: Did--who else was present besides Mr. Goldberg and the camera operators?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung and Mr. Yamauchi.
MR. NEUFELD: And during the course of your doing this demonstration, having these photographs taken, did any--did either Mr. Yamauchi or Mr. Fung give you any direction?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is still vague.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did Mr. Goldberg give you some instructions?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is vague as to "Instructions."
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, can we approach?
THE COURT: No. I think counsel understands the parameters here.
MR. NEUFELD: During the time that you were actually doing the demonstration, did Mr. Goldberg give you any direction as to what to do?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I still think it is vague and overbroad.
THE COURT: Overruled. Yes or no?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't understand what he means by "Instruction."
THE COURT: All right. Obviously this is a demonstration project, a piece of demonstrative evidence. I'm sure the jury understands it was created for this case. Proceed.
MR. NEUFELD: And during the course of that did Mr. Goldberg give you specific instructions?
MS. MAZZOLA: As to what he wanted to depict, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And the sequence there when you should do certain thing?
MS. MAZZOLA: No, not the sequence.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, again calling your attention to collecting a stain demonstration board with the still photographs on it, would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that the still photographs depicted--shown on this board, because they are still photographs, don't capture the continuous motion involved in the entire process of bloodstain collection?
MR. GOLDBERG: It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you first set out to do this demonstration for Mr. Goldberg and the Prosecution, did the Prosecution attempt to record this demonstration with a videotape as well?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And the video was shot at the same time that the still photographs were taken?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And it was your job during this videotape demonstration to act out the role of the criminalist collecting bloodstains?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: I mean this wasn't a real case, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Let me put this down now.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: What was your understanding--when you were engaged in this demonstration for the District Attorney and the videocamera is rolling, what is your understanding of what the purpose of this videotape was going to be?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: That it might be shown to the jury.
MR. GOLDBERG: And so while the District Attorney was producing this videotape, you tried to perform the task of criminalist to the best of your ability; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And knowing that the videotape was meant to represent the process of bloodstain collection as practiced by you, you also tried to make it as realistic as possible; did you not?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And is the tape--have you seen the videotape?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Did Mr. Goldberg or any Prosecutor ever tell you that it was important to convey to this jury how simple crime scene--I'm sorry--bloodstain collection is?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant. Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled. You can answer the question. Was that ever said to you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not to show how simple it was. Just to show the procedure.
MR. NEUFELD: Did any Prosecutor ever express to you the importance of conveying to this jury that it's actually--that it is a simple procedure?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: It is a simple procedure, but that-­

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, during your prep sessions with Mr. Goldberg, did he tell you that there was a chance that this videotape might be played for the jury?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if he said there was a chance it might.
MR. NEUFELD: Are you aware of the fact that on the videotape you are depicted dropping swatches?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you at all concerned that the videotape depicted you dropping swatches?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: All right. Well, was one of the questions that you discussed during those prep sessions a question involving you dropping swatches during a crime scene collection?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know if that was during one of the prep sessions.
MR. NEUFELD: Are you saying that the very first time you ever heard that question asked was when you took the witness stand here?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe it was mentioned when we were taking the photographs for the collection demonstration.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. At this time, your Honor, I would like to play the videotape.
THE COURT: All right. Let's mark it.
MR. NEUFELD: What's next in order?
THE COURT: 1117.

(Deft's 1117 for id = videotape)

THE COURT: Proceed.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Your Honor, I've never done this before in front of the jury. So there may be a couple of times where I ask to go back and slow it down and please indulge me a little bit.
THE COURT: Well, you've seen your colleagues.
MR. NEUFELD: Exactly. All right.

(At 3:29 P.M., People's exhibit 1117, a videotape, was played.)

MR. NEUFELD: Stop it a second.
MR. NEUFELD: By the way, did you notice the date at the beginning of this?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: It says 4-4-95. Does that refresh your recollection as to when this videotape was made?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not really.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Do me a favor. I'm sorry, your Honor. Could you just go back to the beginning one more time? Can you stop there a minute?
MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola, is that your--you're wearing leather gloves, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And it's your right hand that's now resting on the ground, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Can you just back up a few frames? That's good. Thank you.
MR. NEUFELD: Is that your right hand that's resting on the ground?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Would it be fair to say that the ground there outside on the street is dirty?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
THE COURT: You want to describe--unfortunately, Mr. Neufeld, since we don't have a real-time counter and if you're going to isolate particular items, you're going to need to describe them, either print them or describe them.
MR. NEUFELD: This will be 1117-A.

(Deft's 1117-A for id = printout)

MR. NEUFELD: And, Miss Mazzola, just before this shot where you put the right hand down on the dirty ground, did you clean the tweezers?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, can you continue?
MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola-­
MR. NEUFELD: Stop again.
MR. NEUFELD: --did you just take the tweezers and put them--and move them from the left hand and transfer them to the right hand?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that's the right hand that you just had put down on the dirty ground; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: All right. And the same hand that you're using to catch that swatch at that point, if that's what you could have been doing, is the same right hand that you had just put down on the dirty ground; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Continue.
MR. NEUFELD: What you're doing now is, you're making the control swatch?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Item no. 5?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And, Miss Mazzola, on the dirty pavement outdoors like this, would you expect to see some kind of dirt or debris on the control swatch?
MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for conclusion.
MR. NEUFELD: Based on your experience.
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Might, might not.
MR. NEUFELD: Hmm?
MS. MAZZOLA: Might, might not. I don't know.
MR. NEUFELD: Even on an out-door pavement like this, you wouldn't expect to find some dirt?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: It's a possibility you would find some dirt.
MR. NEUFELD: Is it a probability that you would find some dirt, Miss Mazzola?
MR. GOLDBERG: It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Continue, please.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, when you put the plastic bag in the envelope at that point, you folded it over to seal it, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that would retain the moisture in it, wouldn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: It would help keep the swatch from slipping out.

MR. NEUFELD: Hold it one second, please.
MR. NEUFELD: Other than preventing the swatches from slipping out, by folding over the top of the plastic bag when it's wet inside, that also will--that will also result in preserving the moisture in those swatches, wouldn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: One moment.

(Briefpause.)

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Could you just back up about--back up. Go a little more. Okay. Now go forward a little bit.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, after you make the control swatch, Miss Mazzola, you then clean the tweezers off before you go on to actually collect the bloodstain; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Can you freeze it there for a second?
MR. NEUFELD: And what you just did, ma'am, was to pick up--you're going to use that wet wipe or Kleenex to clean the tweezer, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. The chem-wipe.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And you just picked up that chem-wipe with the same right hand which you had been resting on the dirty concrete, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Now you're pouring more swatches out of the bottle, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And are some of the swatches falling to the ground and missing the cap?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, when you made this demonstration tape, were you aware of the fact that your right hand had been resting on the dirty concrete?
MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Is this the first time you knew that?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And, Miss Mazzola, you said you did know, however, that you had dropped swatches during the course of this videotape, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And in fact, comment had been made by others present about the fact that you had dropped swatches; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant, your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Well--you also testified on direct examination, Miss Mazzola, that you had never dropped the swatch that had blood on it. Was that your testimony?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, had the Prosecutor told you during the prep sessions that it was safe for you to give that answer because we don't have you doing that on the videotape?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, this is improper. It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained. The jury is to disregard the implication of that question. Proceed.
MR. NEUFELD: You also testified, Miss Mazzola, on direct examination that one reason--I'm sorry. Withdrawn. You also testified that at crime scenes, your gloved hand has never touched a bloodstain or wet blood; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: But isn't one reason why you wear these protective gloves in the first place is because you could accidentally touch a bloodstain or wet blood?
MS. MAZZOLA: We wear them for our own protection because we are around blood.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, when you say you wear these gloves for your own protection, Miss Mazzola, isn't that protect--isn't that to protect you from an accidental contact with blood? Isn't that the whole purpose you wear the gloves?
MS. MAZZOLA: Blood among other things, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So it's anticipated by the people who taught you at SID to wear gloves that accidental contact between a criminalist and blood does happen from time to time; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: So when you say that you have never touched blood or a wet bloodstain even with your protected gloves on, what you're really saying is that you've never done it such as that you're aware of it; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: I think that misstates her testimony.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Such that I was aware of, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. Now, this is going to be the swatch of the actual evidence, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Could you stop there?

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Now that you see the control swatch just as it's about to hit the control area next to stain no. 5, would you agree that the discoloration we saw later on when you're actually about to lift the bloodstain is moisture from the control swatch?
MS. MAZZOLA: Well, it's a little hard to tell. It's possible-­
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, do you actually see any discoloration in the area immediately adjacent to that bloodstain in this picture before you put that wet control swatch on the ground?
MS. MAZZOLA: I see the area slightly in front of the swatch between the swatch and the stain itself.
MR. NEUFELD: Isn't the area at that point, Miss Mazzola, fairly consistent and not darker, appreciably darker in the area--in the immediate area where you're placing down the control swatch at this point? Isn't that a fair assessment of what's depicted here, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: Well, it looks slightly darker to me, but-­
MR. NEUFELD: Now, could you go forward to where she's about to put down the--yeah. Go a little bit further. Slow it down. In slow-mo. That's right.
MR. NEUFELD: Now do you see the discoloration created by the moisture emanating out from the control swatch?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that's a different color than the other discolorations in the pavement, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. All right. And you can see even at that point the moisture has almost touched the bloodstain, hasn't it?
MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to almost.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: There's still separation between the two.
MR. NEUFELD: There's still some separation there. Okay.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, go forward to the next place where we're about to collect the evidence.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola, can you see that the moisture has spread out from the control swatch so it is in fact touching the blood drop stain?
MS. MAZZOLA: It appears to be.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: When you received your instruction on how to collect bloodstain evidence, although you were taught to collect a control close to the bloodstain, you were also taught, Miss Mazzola, not to allow the moisture from the control swatch to come into contact with the bloodstain; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe that was ever mentioned.
MR. NEUFELD: well, Miss Mazzola, if in fact that swatch itself had been contaminated by your dirty hand, for instance, would the contamination be transferred to the moisture that is emanating out from the swatch? Could that happen?
MR. GOLDBERG: It's vague as to which swatch.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.
MR. NEUFELD: You don't know if it could happen?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know if it could happen.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, if there was dirt on your hand and your hand came into contact with the control swatch, would you agree that it's possible that there could be a transfer of that trace evidence of that contaminant from your glove to the swatch?
MS. MAZZOLA: It would be possible.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree, ma'am, that if that control swatch was moistened with water, that there could be a transfer of trace evidence from the swatch to the water?
MS. MAZZOLA: There would be items from the ground in the water, but the bloodstain itself is on the ground. So it's all in the same substrate.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, that assumes, does it not, Miss Mazzola, that everywhere on the ground, you have the same contaminants and the same substrate? Isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That close a substrate would be approximately the same.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, when you put your right hand down on the ground, you didn't do that two inches away or one inch away from the blood drop. You did that several feet away, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And if your hand came into contact, the hand that touched the dirty pavement several feet away came into contact with the control swatch, it could contaminate the control swatch with whatever contaminant your right hand came in contact with, couldn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: If the hand came in contact with that particular swatch, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And if that swatch then comes into contact with water, the water can pick up that contaminant, can't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: A possibility.
MR. NEUFELD: And if that water then spreads outward and actually comes into contact with the bloodstain, then the bloodstain can come into contact with the very same contaminant that the right hand initially came into contact with. Isn't that a possibility?
MS. MAZZOLA: A possibility, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. But it's your testimony that you were never instructed to keep the control swatch moisture not in contact with the bloodstain? They never taught you that at the SID mini academy?
MS. MAZZOLA: It was never a strong point that was brought up.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, was it a small point that was brought up?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: So is it--best of your recollection, it could have been, but you just don't recall?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, as you sit here today, would it make sense to you as a criminalist not to let the moisture from the control swatch come into contact with the bloodstain?
MS. MAZZOLA: That would be preferable.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: And you're putting it in the coin envelope now?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And the coin envelope is not sealed, is it?
MS. MAZZOLA: No. Not sealed.
MR. NEUFELD: Now you're cleaning the tweezers again?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And again, Miss Mazzola, you're holding the tweezers in your right hand now?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Same right hand that touched the ground, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: My right hand.
MR. NEUFELD: Yes. And is that your right hand hitting the ground again?
MS. MAZZOLA: My hand was on the ground, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Notice you're stretching.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Is it tiring bending down there to do even a single swatch?
MS. MAZZOLA: No. When it is extremely cold, my left knee tends to tighten up a bit.
MR. NEUFELD: And in this instance, you're actually brushing away the swatches that you actually dropped to the ground?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: By the way, Mr. Yamauchi and Dennis Fung were also present during this?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Yamauchi was.
MR. NEUFELD: And did Mr. Yamauchi-- I thought you said Dennis Fung was there as well.
MR. NEUFELD: Would you hold it a second, please?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe he was back and forth between the demonstration area and the lab itself.
MR. NEUFELD: One moment.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Just back up a second, please.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you actually collected the swatch, were your knees on the ground?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Can you back up? Back up to just where she's about to get up.
MR. NEUFELD: And are you now putting your left hand on your knee?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that's the knee that was just on the pavement?
MS. MAZZOLA: I think it was on the pavement.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And when--you're wiping the ground now with your right hand, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you didn't change gloves before you went on to the next swatching, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Hold it one second. You're going forward. What are you doing?

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: And there are more swatches that have dropped to the ground again, haven't there?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Again, your right hand with the tweezers is going down to the dirty ground?
MS. MAZZOLA: Is on the ground.
MR. NEUFELD: Would you agree that the pavement outside where you're shooting this has dirt on it, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: By the way, Miss Mazzola-­
MR. NEUFELD: Let's stop for one second.
MR. NEUFELD: I notice in the demonstration board, when you're actually--when they show you either using the control swatch or swatch on a piece of evidence, you don't see any of the swatches that are lying on the ground; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: That they don't show any swatches lying on the ground?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: After you finished making this videotape, did the Prosecutor ask you to repeat the exercise again?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: See the moisture moving out from the control swatch, Miss Mazzola?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: You see it-­
MR. NEUFELD: Hold it.
MR. NEUFELD: You see it coming into contact with the portion of the bloodstain that moves out in an arm to the right?
MS. MAZZOLA: It appears that it is.
MR. NEUFELD: One second. Can you just back it up a little bit, please, about five seconds? Stop.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, see the dirt on the fingertips of the third and fourth fingers of your glove?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Continue. Stop.

[...]

­MR. NEUFELD: Dropped other swatches there, Miss Mazzola; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, you were having some difficulty getting the swatch to get onto the stain there, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Right.
MR. NEUFELD: Slow down. Stop.
MR. NEUFELD: And so now you've moved your fingers on the dirty glove that had been in contact with the pavement down toward the tip of those tweezers, haven't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: They are still a ways away from the tip.
MR. NEUFELD: I understand that. But you've moved them down away from the position they were normally in to try and get that swatch to come off the tip, haven't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that's the same hand that had the dirt on the fingers, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Continue.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola, between the collection--now you're collecting item no. 6; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, between the collection of item 5 and item no. 6, you never changed your gloves, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And the reason you never changed your gloves is because no one at SID ever taught you to change your gloves?
MS. MAZZOLA: They don't need to teach you when to change your gloves. You change your gloves periodically.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, did anyone at LAPD SID ever teach you to change your gloves between the handling of different blood stains?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, you said that one of the procedures that you have been taught--
MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

(At 4:16 P.M., the playing of the videotape concluded.)

MR. NEUFELD: One of the procedures that you have been taught at LAPD was to put some scale in the photograph such as a tape--such as a ruler to indicate the size of the actual bloodstain, correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: That misstates the evidence.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, were you taught as part of your instruction on forensic photography to have a ruler placed in the scene?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, did you use a ruler when doing this demonstration to indicate--for purposes of documenting the stain, the size of the stain?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: And did you not do that because the Prosecutors didn't tell you to do that?
MS. MAZZOLA: I didn't do that, but no one told me not to.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. One moment, your Honor.
THE COURT: Certainly.

(Briefpause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, how many crime scenes have you collected bloodstains at since June 13th, 1994?
MS. MAZZOLA: Two I believe.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree that additional training and more experience makes you more proficient today than you were 10 months ago?
MS. MAZZOLA: Experience helps.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree that when collecting blood or bloodstains, mistakes can occur?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mistakes can happen, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree that when collecting bloodstains, especially in evidence that's going to go out for DNA analysis, that the criminalist must understand how in the course of making different mistakes DNA could become degraded?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't think we bear in mind DNA specifically. We look at any serological testing.
MR. NEUFELD: Were you ever taught at the SID mini academy any connection at all between the mistakes that can happen at a crime scene and the effects it will have on DNA or other serological testing?
MR. GOLDBERG: Misstates the evidence.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, the wet swatches, Miss Mazzola, were placed in the truck in brown paper bags; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Does the LAPD SID unit have a written procedure for storing biological evidence in the van?
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not know.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, there's a refrigerator in the van, isn't there?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Did Fung instruct you to put the bloodstain swatches in the refrigerator?
MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No, he did not.
MR. NEUFELD: And you did not see Fung put them in the refrigerator, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that or were you aware of the fact that the refrigerator worked at least some of the time?
MS. MAZZOLA: I was aware that it worked some of the time, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that it would work for several hours eventually before the battery going dead?
MS. MAZZOLA: I wasn't sure how long it would work.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, have you ever been aware of the fact that it did work for more than one or two hours?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if I ever found that out.
MR. NEUFELD: You didn't find out how long it did work for?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that even a few hours of keeping wet blood swatches in the refrigerator is better than not keeping them there at all?
MR. GOLDBERG: Beyond the scope of her expertise.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, you said that you had been told by people at LAPD SID that heat can have some effect on bacteria growing on the blood swatches; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained. Counsel, I assume there's some other witness who is going to testify to these events.
MR. NEUFELD: One moment, your Honor.

(Briefpause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola, when you came back to Rockingham later in the afternoon on the 13th, the first item of evidence that you collected inside the house was item no. 12; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And item no. 12 is more than a single drop of blood, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: If I remember correctly, it is.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, it is three drops of blood, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I'm not exactly sure how many.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, the other drops of blood that you or bloodstains that you collected from the driveway that day, they were all individual drops; were they not?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And weren't you taught, Miss Mazzola, that whenever you have distinct drops, even if they're close together, that they should be collected in separate packages?
MS. MAZZOLA: That was up to the discretion of the supervisor.
MR. NEUFELD: Let me show 14-

­(Briefpause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, did you receive a handout from the SID unit entitled, "Collection and preservation of body fluids"? Do you have it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I might have. I don't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: Next in order would be?
THE COURT: 1118? 1118.

(Deft's 1118 for id = handout)

MR. NEUFELD: Show you this, ask you to take a look at item no. 13.
MS. MAZZOLA: Okay.
MR. NEUFELD: By the way, Miss Mazzola--also look at that. Do these two pages represent a handout that you received at the SID mini academy?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. They look familiar.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And in the handout that you received from the SID mini academy, weren't you told specifically, quote, if there is more than one distinct stain, these should be treated as different stains and collected separately?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's what the handout says.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And, Miss Mazzola, does it anywhere in that handout say, "Oh, but wait a second. You can make an exception if the senior criminalist says to"?
MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you ever receive any written instructions at all from LAPD SID suggesting that you could make an exception from that rule when the senior criminalist so chose?
MS. MAZZOLA: There is nothing written down.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, even on the demo board that we just looked at, Miss Mazzola, items 5 and 6 are only several inches apart, aren't they?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe--well, what do you call by several?
MR. NEUFELD: Would you agree, Miss Mazzola, that items 5 and 6 are within a foot of one another?
MS. MAZZOLA: They could be within a foot, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And, Miss Mazzola, I believe you said that you had also been taught it wasn't necessary to pick up every single drop in a area, but only to pick up representative drops; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, other than the three drops that you saw in the foyer where you picked up item no. 12, weren't there some other small drops in the vicinity that you didn't bother to collect?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if I saw any other little drops around that area or not.

(Briefpause.)

MR. NEUFELD: But you would agree, ma'am, that there were at least a few drops in that foyer area where you collected no. 12?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: I believe you said, Miss Mazzola, before that you can't tell whether or not this trail of blood drops at Rockingham is leading from the house to the Bronco or from the Bronco to the house; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered.
MR. NEUFELD: Just for foundation for the next question.
THE COURT: That's what she said.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, Miss Mazzola, from what you've just said, the greater number of drops that you saw in any particular area was that concentration of drops in the foyer inside the front door; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

[...]

(Deft's 1119 for id = photograph)

[...]

MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, do you recognize that photograph?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And is that photograph showing at least three different blood drops?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: On the foyer near the card no. 12?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that that was the only blood drops or bloodstains that you observed on the first floor of the house?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that after you collected those blood drops in item no. 12 in the foyer near the front door, that you then walked up the stairway?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe we started going upstairs, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you examined the light carpet on the stairs?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And as you examined that light carpet on the stairs, there was absolutely no bloodstains seen there at all, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I did not observe any.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, you were looking, weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Right.
MR. NEUFELD: And wasn't Dennis Fung looking?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And he didn't say he observed any either, did he?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you were not only looking for blood drops at that point, you were also looking for dry flecks of blood as well, weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Anything that was red.
MR. NEUFELD: And you didn't see anything that was red on this white carpet ascending all the way up the stairs?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember what color the carpet was.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, was it light color ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: It was light, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: It was the kind of color that if there was a red drop, it would stand out, wouldn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And then as you walked down the hallway on that second floor toward Mr. Simpson's bedroom, there was also that same light colored carpeting, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall. Could be. I don't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, when you--you were examining the floor, weren't you, at that point?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you didn't see any blood drops there either, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you didn't see any flecks of blood, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you examined that stairway going up the stairs, ma'am, did you examine the banister also?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And on the banister, ma'am, there were no flecks of blood, were there?
MS. MAZZOLA: I personally did not observe any.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, did Mr. Fung personally observe them in your presence?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not in my presence, no.
MR. NEUFELD: And on that banister, there were no flecks of blood either, were there?
MS. MAZZOLA: I did not see any.
MR. NEUFELD: And Mr. Fung didn't mention any to you, did he?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: And if you had seen them, you would have collected them, wouldn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you would have photographed them?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And also on that banister, ma'am, there were no smears of blood, were there, indicating that somebody had blood on their hands? Isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I did not recall seeing anything like that.
MR. NEUFELD: And Mr. Fung didn't observe any either that he mentioned to you, did he?
MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for conclusion. Hearsay.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Did Mr. Fung in your presence say to you that he had observed any smears of blood on the banister?
THE COURT: Sustained. Counsel, why don't you rephrase that question; did Mr. Fung point out to you any blood smears, et cetera, et cetera.
MR. NEUFELD: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. NEUFELD: You can answer the Judge's question.
MS. MAZZOLA: No, he did not.

"such a test is useless to establish whether anyone drove the car rather than just got in and back out."

Uh-huh. Why would they get in with bloody shoes then immediately get out?

Like everything else you claim, it's possible, but why would it be reasonable for anyone to do it?

"After using one swab for multiple items, you are unable to say what tested positive."

Swab "A", nothing. Swab "B", nothing. Swab "C", bingo. Sure you can.

Uh-huh. Why would they get in with bloody shoes then immediately get out?

Why would someone get in the car to plant blood and take it for a drive?

Mazzola's testimony is coming. Enjoy!

As for the shoes, I intent to prove that there was insufficient evidence to support a claim of a Bruno Magli shoeprint to any degree of scientific certainty. Try not to get apoplexy. That will covewred with the testimony of FBI Special Agent William J. Bodziak.

"After using one swab for multiple items, you are unable to say what tested positive."

Swab "A", nothing. Swab "B", nothing. Swab "C", bingo. Sure you can.

Mozzola only used swab "A".

Mozzola collected no substrate control.

If there was a positive result, there is no way of telling whether A, B, or C indicated the possibility of the presence of blood.

With no substrate control, there is no way of telling if one of the combined items contained beet juice and would have tested positive using distilled water on an area outside any stain.

What you've got is squat. I was proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the criminalists did not know what they were doing, or didn't care, and not much else.

Andrea MAZZOLA testimony, 20 April 1995; EXCERPTS

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

MR. GOLDBERG: Do you have a practice at a crime scene to wear the same pair of gloves throughout the entire crime scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: What is your practice?
MS. MAZZOLA: I change the gloves when they start getting uncomfortable. If I am done possessing an area and I am moving on to a completely separate area, I will change gloves.
MR. GOLDBERG: By the way, just going back for a second to the blood collection procedure, can you--do you ever touch the blood with your gloved hands?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: When you are collecting it?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: What about the swatches?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: Is that something that has happened to you by accident where you have touched a bloody swatch with your gloved hands?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MS. MAZZOLA: The hat and the glove at Bundy were touching each other. They were not in two completely separate areas. They were in physical contact with each other.
MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. And when you were at a crime scene and collecting evidence, is it your habit to, if you see something on your gloves or see some blood or trace on your gloves, to change them?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: So the glove and the hat were in close proximity?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MS. MAZZOLA: The sample item no. 18, 17, 19, are mine. The "Received--received in serology" under 18 is mine. 17, the location of item "Received from Vannatter" is Mr. Fung's writing. My writing is the writing under the "Item collected" for that item number, and Mr. Fung's writing is "Removed from." Mine is "Item 9" and his is the "Hairs and fibers."
MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Now, did you do this document on your own initially or did Mr. Fung do it together with you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Initially it was mine.
MR. GOLDBERG: And then did you call Mr. Fung's attention to it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I did.
MR. GOLDBERG: Now, when you put in the time for item no. 17, 17:20--that is what it says, 17:20, where did you get that from?
MS. MAZZOLA: From Mr. Fung.
MR. GOLDBERG: Is that 5:20?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: It came from him and not an analyzed--and not an analyzed envelope or another piece of paper?
MS. MAZZOLA: He told me. I don't--that is all I know.
MR. GOLDBERG: And where did you get the time nine o'clock for the "Removed item 9, 19"?
MS. MAZZOLA: That I glanced at the clock while he was working on it.
MR. GOLDBERG: And what about the 8:30 time for the "Received" for item no. 18?
MS. MAZZOLA: That was from Mr. Fung.
MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Were you present when any pair of sneakers was handed over?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: So after you created this document and then brought it to Mr. Fung's attention, what happened?
MS. MAZZOLA: He wanted the numbers--sample item numbers changed.
MR. GOLDBERG: And why was that?
MS. MAZZOLA: He wanted to keep the items in chronological order as they had been received.

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MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Were you present when any pair of sneakers was handed over?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: So after you created this document and then brought it to Mr. Fung's attention, what happened?
MS. MAZZOLA: He wanted the numbers--sample item numbers changed.
MR. GOLDBERG: And why was that?
MS. MAZZOLA: He wanted to keep the items in chronological order as they had been received.
MR. GOLDBERG: And based upon your own experience as a criminalist, is there any advantage to doing that in terms of other reports that need to be done, such as property reports?
MS. MAZZOLA: Well, when they are kept in chronological order as to the day they were received, on the property reports you can put all of the items received on the same day on the property report. If they were out of order, you would have to generate a new property report for each item.

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MR. GOLDBERG: Okay. Do you have any recollection of why that was erased and the other--and "Received from Vannatter" put in there?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe I was trying to put them in the order that Mr. Fung wanted, 17, 18 and 19, and had started to write "Received in serology," meaning the tennis shoes, and Mr. Fung wanted it kept 18 first, then 17 and then 19.
MR. GOLDBERG: And he just changed those item numbers?
MS. MAZZOLA: Right, yeah.

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Andrea MAZZOLA testimony, 25 April 1995, EXCERPTS

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MR. NEUFELD: And it is when they took you over to see the Bronco that you first began to fill out the vehicle search checklist; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And notwithstanding, Miss Mazzola, yours and Dennis Fung's testimony that upon arrival at Rockingham that he announced that he would be the officer in charge, that on the vehicle search checklist which you began to fill out--I'm sorry. Withdrawn. Isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that even though you had been informed in advance of filling out the vehicle search checklist that he would be the officer in charge, that you nonetheless put yourself down as the officer in charge on that vehicle search checklist?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: Yet, ma'am, no one erased your name as the OIC, the officer in charge, on the vehicle search checklist; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: You continued to have that title throughout?
MS. MAZZOLA: Title-­
MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to "Title."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, your title on that report was never changed; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: And Miss Mazzola, even at your first two crime scenes, when you were on probation, the supervising criminalist didn't bother to stay with you the entire time; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And even at your first two crime scenes, when you were on probation, there were times when you collected blood stains unassisted by a supervising criminalist?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: Is there a policy and practice of the LAPD that student or trainee—I'm sorry—that probationer criminalists participating in their very first crime scene collection matter should be there in an unsupervised capacity when they are collecting critical evidence?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant. Also vague as to "Critical evidence."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not know what their policy is.

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MR. NEUFELD: Is there a policy and practice of the LAPD SID unit that new probationers like yourself learn from mistakes when you are collecting critical evidence at a murder crime scene?
MR. GOLDBERG: Vague, argumentative.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: When you are trained on how to collect evidence, you don't make mistakes on how to pick it up.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, you are saying that it is impossible for you to make a mistake at a crime scene?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, that misstates the testimony.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: I'm asking her a question.
MS. MAZZOLA: I collect the evidence the way I was trained. That is the only way I know how to do it.

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MR. NEUFELD: And in contrast to those first couple of crime scenes, Miss Mazzola, where you were present in this case on June 13th of 1994, you were in fact the primary collector of blood stains, as opposed to Dennis Fung; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.

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MR. NEUFELD: To your knowledge, ma'am, does the Los Angeles Police Department publish any guidelines at all as to how to supervise and train a new criminalist at a crime scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.
MR. NEUFELD: You have never heard of any?
MS. MAZZOLA: I have never heard of it.

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MR. NEUFELD: Well, to your knowledge, Miss Mazzola, is each supervising criminalist free to allow you to do as much or as little as a particular supervising criminalist chooses?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is irrelevant, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know. I'm not a supervising criminalist. I don't know what their guidelines are.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, since you have been at the Los Angeles Police Department are you aware of the L.A. Police Department's crime scene field unit protocol and procedures manual?
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes a fact not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. GOLDBERG: That they have one.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I am not familiar with that, no.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, has it ever been given to you to look at?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Has anyone ever instructed you to read it?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Have you received, during the year and a half that you have been with the Los Angeles Police Department, any manual prepared by SID laying out the various procedures and rules that you are inquired to follow?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Is there any written manual, ma'am, that you rely on when you go out to process evidence at a crime scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Is there any book distributed to you to instruct you on how to conduct crime scene investigation?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now, one of the things you have been taught to do, Miss Mazzola, is to fill out and prepare crime scene investigation field notes; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: We have been shown the notes before, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And these crime scene checklists and field notes are a series of reports and forms that you are expected to accurately and completely fill out in connection with crime scene investigations; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is compound, your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I was told to fill in the parts that were the most important.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you told, ma'am, to fill out these reports and forms contemporaneously with the activities that you are engaged in?
MS. MAZZOLA: For the most part, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you taught, ma'am, in your Los Angeles Police Department-- I think you said you attended the mini academy; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, isn't it a fact that it was your understanding, when you testified on August 23rd, that you were required to fill out these reports completely and accurately?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe I testified something like that.
MR. NEUFELD: Isn't it a fact, Miss Mazzola, that it was only after you finished testifying on August 23rd and you had testified to this duty to fill—fill these reports out completely, that when you then got back to the—the L.A. Police Department SID lab, that individuals for the first time said, no, no, no, it is not necessary to fill them out completely? Isn't that what happened?
MS. MAZZOLA: As I said before, I had seen other criminalists fill out portions; some fill out the entire form.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, I asked you didn't you believe that up until August 23rd, when you testified in this case, that is, for the first seven or eight months of your employment, that you were required to fill out these reports completely?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Not just to fill out portions, but to fill them out in totality; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Miss Mazzola, one of the requirements on these forms is to note for each item collected the location it is found; is that right?
MR. GOLDBERG: States facts not in evidence as to "Requirements."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And another item on the form is "Time," the time each item is collected; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And another item that you are--that up until August 23rd you also believed you were required to fill out was "By whom" the item was collected; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And so, ma'am, if as recently as August 23rd you believed you were required to fill out these reports completely, you also operated under that belief when you were present on June 13th and June 14th to participate in the crime scene investigation in Mr. Simpson's case; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, I ask you again have you ever received a handout from your superiors at the Los Angeles Police Department SID unit instructing you that you are required to keep complete and accurate field notes?
MS. MAZZOLA: That page does not look familiar to me.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Well, separate and apart from actually receiving a handout, at some point at this mini academy did your instructors ever teach you that it was very important, in terms of your professional responsibility, to make accurate and complete field notes?
MS. MAZZOLA: (No audible response.)
MR. NEUFELD: Isn't that something that they taught you?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you taught, Miss Mazzola, that if swatches, for instance, were not properly marked, packaged and identified, they could get mixed up?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you taught that if items of evidence were not properly packaged and identified, it made it easier for someone to tamper with those items?
MS. MAZZOLA: That was never brought up.
MR. NEUFELD: You never received any instruction at all, during your entire time at this mini academy, on taking measures to avoid evidence tampering?
MS. MAZZOLA: No one would tamper with the evidence.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, would you agree that at least on June 13th in these notes Dennis Fung did not complete field notes?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would object. I think this has been covered.
THE COURT: That is a new question. You can answer that question.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, when you got back to the laboratory, either on June 13th or on June 14th, did you tell Dennis Fung that he hadn't kept complete and accurate field notes for June 13th?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant. Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I didn't tell Mr. Fung anything like that.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you go to either Miss Kestler, the head of the laboratory, did you go to her and tell her that the person you were working with that day did not comply with the requirement as you believed at that time, that is, to keep complete field notes?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you go to Mr. Matheson, the no. 2 person, and tell him that your teammate had failed to follow the requirement of keeping field notes?
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes facts not in evidence, that it was a requirement.
THE COURT: Sustained. Did you tell anybody about this?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, you said, and I quote, that "Some boxes don't apply to the criminalist at the scene." Let's start with the box that says "Collected by," Miss Mazzola. Is it your testimony that the box where they are asking you to write down who it is who collected each item doesn't apply to the criminalist at the scene? Yes or no?
MS. MAZZOLA: As of June 13th I was informed we were working as a team. The box was not necessary to be filled out.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, the first time you were told that was August 23rd, that you didn't have to fill out all these boxes; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: No, it was June 13th.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, isn't it relevant to know who collected the item of evidence for purposes of establishing a chain of custody? Were you taught that?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not to really establish the chain of custody.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, were you taught anything about chain of custody in your training?
MR. GOLDBERG: This is overbroad.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you taught that the first thing one has to do in establishing a chain of custody is establish who the person is who actually collects the item of evidence?
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes a fact not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: Weren't you taught that?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

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MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, let's go on to the i.d. Markings. There is a column on here that says "I.d. Mark"; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And the mark stands for identification markings; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, weren't you taught that what this column is for is for you to know what markings you put on a particular item of evidence so it can be identified at a later time as being a particular item that you collected? Weren't you taught that?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Were you ever taught anything with respect to the purpose of the column on your field note report that says "I.D. mark"?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: You don't remember being taught that at all?
MS. MAZZOLA: I might have been taught. I don't remember.

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MR. NEUFELD: And Miss Mazzola, on the crime scene checklist there is a box, a question that says "Has the scene been altered? If so by whom and how?" Isn't there?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: and in fact there is four lines that follow that question; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know the exact number of lines.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, they leave you space so you can answer those questions, don't they?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you would agree, ma'am, that that is a very important question, isn't it?
MR. GOLDBERG: Vague as to "Important."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for a conclusion.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, isn't it relevant to the overall investigation to know whether a crime scene has been altered?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, ma'am, if a crime scene has been altered it could render subsequent scientific analysis unreliable, couldn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't have the experience to answer that.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, ma'am, for instance, if a blanket, for instance, okay, was used to alter the crime scene and it left trace evidence where there had been none previously, that could render an analysis of certain trace evidence unreliable, couldn't it?
MR. GOLDBERG: Incomplete hypothetical. Calls for a conclusion.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: It is possible.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And that is why the Los Angeles Police Department Scientific Investigation Division has asked you to fill out this question, "Has the scene been altered and if so by whom and how"; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: And ma'am, isn't it fair to say that you cannot assume that no one altered the crime scene before you arrived; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it correct, ma'am, that the reason that they asked you to investigate whether the crime scene had been altered is because they don't want you to assume it hasn't been; isn't that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes a fact not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: We do not investigate who has been in the crime scene area.
MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, are you required to investigate whether the crime scene has been altered?
MS. MAZZOLA: What do you mean by "Investigate"?
MR. NEUFELD: Are you required to make a determination as to whether the crime scene has been altered?
MS. MAZZOLA: (No audible response.)
MR. NEUFELD: isn't that what SID wants you to do when you get to a crime scene, ma'am?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, I would ask that he not badger the witness.
THE COURT: We are close.
MS. MAZZOLA: Was the last question--I'm sorry.
MR. NEUFELD: Hasn't the SID unit of the L.A. Police Department instructed you to make a determination, when you get to the crime scene, as to whether it has been altered?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is vague and overbroad as to "Determination."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Other than knowing who arrived, I don't see how we can determine if the scene itself had been altered.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, do you think that one thing you might be able to do is simply ask a detective whether or not he or she has done anything to alter the scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: It is possible.
MR. NEUFELD: What did they teach you at the SID mini academy what you are supposed to do to answer this important question "Has the scene been altered? If so by whom and how?"? What did they teach you to do to answer that question?
MS. MAZZOLA: Just get an idea of who had been there.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, did they teach you at the SID mini academy that you are to ask the detectives whether or not they moved any articles of evidence, for starters? Did they teach you that?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: They didn't teach you that? Did they teach you to ask the officers who were there or detectives who were there whether they walked into a critical area where there may be shoeprints? Did they teach you that?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe they went into depth in that--with that question.
MR. NEUFELD: Did they teach you to ask detectives whether they brought any foreign matter into the crime scene, such as a blanket?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did they teach you that?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: So correct me if I am mistaken, Miss Mazzola. Is it your testimony that you received absolutely no training on how to answer that question, that is, "Has the scene been altered? If so, by whom and how?"? Is that a fair statement, that you really didn't receive any training on how to answer those questions at a crime scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: You didn't do any processing of samples on the 14th?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not in the morning, no.
MR. NEUFELD: And you then went out and you went to the Bronco on the 14th?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And is the reason you went out with Dennis Fung on the 14th to the Bronco because it is a standard L.A. Police Department SID procedure that once a criminalist becomes involved in the case, he or she continues with the case and subsequent searches and investigations?
MS. MAZZOLA: For the most part, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: For the most part? There are exceptions to that?
MS. MAZZOLA: If you are absolutely unable to get away, if you had to go to Court or something like that, another criminalist would step in.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. But aside from either illness or--or you have responsibilities testifying in Court, it is the standard procedure at LAPD that once a criminalist is assigned to a case that he or she sticks with it for each of the searches; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: For the most part, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: That is why you went back on the 14th to the Bronco with Dennis Fung?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: But in this case, ma'am, you didn't stick with this case beyond the 14th, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct. Well, I take that back. We did go for the Bentley.
MR. NEUFELD: What day was that?
MS. MAZZOLA: Let me check my-­
MR. NEUFELD: Please.
MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.) It was on the 30th.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: On June 28th you did not participate in the search of the Bronco, did you?
MR. GOLDBERG: Beyond the scope of the direct.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: And on June 28th you did not participate with Dennis Fung in the search of Mr. Simpson's home, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: On each of those occasions, to your knowledge, Mr. Fung had another team member, right?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, calls for speculation.
MR. NEUFELD: If you know?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.
THE COURT: You can answer the question.
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know.
MR. NEUFELD: And on July 3rd, when Mr. Fung went back out to Bundy on a crime scene investigation, you didn't go with him on that occasion either?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola on June 28th were you out sick?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: On June 28th were you in Court testifying?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: On July 3rd were you out sick?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: On July 3rd were you in Court testifying?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe so.

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MR. NEUFELD: However, a positive result, when that little swab turns that-- I think you say magenta?
MS. MAZZOLA: Magenta pink, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Turns that magenta pink color, it is not a definitive result; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And in fact, all it means is, is that the stain could possibly be blood, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Right.
MR. NEUFELD: And the test that you do, this phenolphthalein test, it certainly isn't a test for human blood; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And in your training at this--at SID, umm, did you learn in fact that there are many other substances, other than blood, which can also give you that magenta color, which aren't blood?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you taught, ma'am, that some of them are the juices from common vegetables and fruits?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, on June 14th it was yours and Dennis Fung's job to collect every single blood stain on the outside and inside of the Bronco that was visible to you; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, I believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: And each time that you set out to collect blood stains in this case, for each stain that you collected, Miss Mazzola, weren't you instructed to collect as much of the stain as you possibly could collect?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, you were supposed to collect the entire visible stain; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And it would be--and you were taught, ma'am, to keep swatching that blood stain until the blood was completely collected; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: To get as much up as possible, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And in fact you have been taught by the laboratory that it was important to get as much up as possible in the event that DNA testing might be considered?
MS. MAZZOLA: I think it was also just for a basic serology; not necessarily DNA.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And on the morning of the 14th you arrived at the print shed around 10:30?
MS. MAZZOLA: May I check my notes?
MR. NEUFELD: Please.
MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.)
MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, do you have an independent recollection of what time you arrived?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Then please do.
MS. MAZZOLA: (Witness complies.) Yes, it was around 10:30.
MR. NEUFELD: And you stayed there for approximately three hours?
MS. MAZZOLA: Umm, approximately.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And when you were there during those three hours the press wasn't there to distract you, were they?
MS. MAZZOLA: We did not see them.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And there was--was there a large group of detectives with you when you were at the print shed?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: so they weren't--so the detectives weren't distracting you either that day, were they?
MS. MAZZOLA: The detectives were really not a distraction to begin with.
MR. NEUFELD: In other words, Miss Mazzola, when you were at the print shed on the 14th you were able to pursue your tasks conscientiously and professionally as best you could; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: As we did on the 13th, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And so was Dennis Fung, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And during those three hours that you were at the Bronco on June 14th, you made a systematic examination of the outside of that car, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Umm, Mr. Fung and myself, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you systematically examined the entire exterior of the Bronco for even the smallest yet visible specks of blood; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you looked on the fenders, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: We looked at the outside.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, the fenders are part of the outside, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Right.
MR. NEUFELD: Hum?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: You looked on the doors?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Top and bottom?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you pointed out to Dennis Fung every single stain that you noticed, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: He was a little better at picking out the stains than I was.
MR. NEUFELD: And Dennis Fung pointed out every stain that he noticed to you, didn't he?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it true, Miss Mazzola, that on June 14th Dennis Fung never pointed out to you any dark red stains on the white metal portion of the sill on the driver's door, did he?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if he did or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, did he point out any stains to you on that car?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: On the exterior?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: You actually remember him pointing out some stains, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, you remember him pointing out a stain outside the passenger door; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: You actually remember that independently?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And as you sit here today you have no independent recollection of Dennis Fung ever pointing out to you any small stains on the sill of the driver's door; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: In fact, during your prep sessions with the Prosecutors, did they tell you that the issue of whether or not there were bloodstains located on the sill area was an issue in the case? Did that come up at all during your prep sessions?
MS. MAZZOLA: It came up, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And-­
MR. NEUFELD: One moment.

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: In fact, Miss Mazzola, the only stains or smears that you saw anywhere on the exterior of the car on the 14th was a couple of tiny specks on the passenger door, isn't that correct, on the exterior passenger door?
MS. MAZZOLA: From independent recollection, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well-­
MR. NEUFELD: Let me show this.

(Briefpause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Next in order would be?
THE COURT: Defense-­
THE CLERK: 1113.
THE COURT: --1113.
MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

(Deft's 1113 for id = photograph)

MR. NEUFELD: Show you Defendant's 1113. Is that picture familiar to you? Do you recognize it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And what is it a picture—I'm sorry. Is that a photograph of what is item 20 in this case that you referred to on direct examination?
MS. MAZZOLA: Let me make sure it's the right-­
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

(Briefpause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it is item 20.
MR. NEUFELD: That's on the passenger side, correct, the opposite side?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, you said you had been taught that if you had seen other stains or smears on the exterior of the car, that you had been taught that they too would have been photographed, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you had also been taught, ma'am, that if you saw stains that could possibly be blood, that you were--you were also instructed to swatch them, is that correct, and bring them back to the laboratory?
MS. MAZZOLA: If they were pheno positive, yes, we would collect them.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So you were instructed then to do a pheno test as well on stains?
MS. MAZZOLA: If there was any question, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And obviously no pheno test was done on any portion of the driver's sill on the 14th; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I honestly don't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, did you--well, let me ask you this. If a pheno test was done, would it be recorded in your notes?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Would you please look at your notes to see whether or not any pheno test was done on the sill of the driver's door to the Bronco?
MS. MAZZOLA: No, one was not done.
MR. NEUFELD: Excuse me?
MS. MAZZOLA: One was not done.

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MR. NEUFELD: By the way, Miss Mazzola--to the--to the best of your recollection, ma'am, you didn't even see the specks in that upper circle on the 14th, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: To the best of my recollection, I did not.
MR. NEUFELD: And you did not see the speck in the lower circle, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: And you did not see the smear or grayish or-- I am sorry--discoloration indicated in the third circle, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: You didn't see any of those on the 14th, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: To the best of my recollection, I did not.
MR. NEUFELD: Right. Miss Mazzola, you didn't see them on the morning of the 13th either, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: I wasn't-­
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes a fact that she looked.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: On the 13th, I don't believe I was looking that carefully.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, you were shown the car on the 13th by the detectives, didn't you? Weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you walked over with the detectives and Dennis Fung to examine the Bronco, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And in fact, I think you said that you personally even swatched the stain on the handle of the Bronco, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that stain was pointed out to you by Detective Fuhrman, wasn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I'm not sure which one pointed it out.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, you were there when Detective Fuhrman pointed it out to--oh, I'm sorry. Withdrawn. You were at the Bronco with Dennis Fung and the detectives when one of the detectives pointed out a small speck near the handle on the driver's door; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And at that point in time, when that speck was pointed out to you and Dennis Fung, no other speck was pointed out to you and Dennis Fung on the exterior of the car; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember. I just remember the one on the driver's handle.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, with respect to your independent recollection, Miss Mazzola, as it stands today, is it fair to say that you have no independent recollection of any detective showing you any other speck or stain on that car other than the speck next to the driver's handle?
MS. MAZZOLA: That I can recall, no.
MR. NEUFELD: That's what I'm asking you. Your independent recollection, from what you can recall.
MS. MAZZOLA: My independent recollection, no.

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MR. NEUFELD: When you were standing out on the sidewalk and they were moving the bodies, what did you see or where did you see Dennis Fung standing?
MS. MAZZOLA: Up in the area where they were removing the bodies.
MR. NEUFELD: Was he on the sidewalk or was he on the steps?
MS. MAZZOLA: I can't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: And do you have any idea what he was doing when he was in there?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, now that you've done that examination, okay, of that crime scene that day, you do know that he wasn't removing perishable or other small items near the bodies; is that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: No foundation, personal knowledge.
THE COURT: Overruled. Do you understand the question?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe so.
THE COURT: All right. Go ahead and answer.
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not believe that he was removing any perishable items at that time.
MR. NEUFELD: Nor was he removing any small items that were in close proximity to the bodies, was he?
MS. MAZZOLA: No. He did not appear to be, no.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now, at 7:00 A.M., you said when--that's when you arrived. A little bit after 7:00 A.M., you arrived at Rockingham with Dennis Fung?
MS. MAZZOLA: If I may check my notes.
MR. NEUFELD: Sure. You don't have an independent recollection as to what time you arrived?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not independent recollection, no.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.
MS. MAZZOLA: It was approximately around 7:00 A.M., yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: And so as to the items in the driveway, the detectives told you which items to collect?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: But you didn't even bother collecting any of the stains until 8:15; isn't that right?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, it's vague as to didn't bother. That's argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Sorry. You didn't collect any of the stains until at least 8:15; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: May I check the time?
MR. NEUFELD: Sure.

(Briefpause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: The stain on the Bronco was collected approximately 8:15.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And that was the first stain to be collected?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, it was.
MR. NEUFELD: And the stains in the driveway were collected after that, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: All right. Did you ask the detectives whether or not the bodies had been removed yet at 8:00 A.M. in the morning before you started collecting stains at Rockingham?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did Mr. Fung ask the detectives that in your presence?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not in my presence.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, after you collected the drop on the Bronco, it was still--it was not until 9:00 o'clock that you began picking up the other drops in the driveway; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: May I check the notes?
MR. NEUFELD: Please do.

(Briefpause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Approximately 9:00 A.M.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So at this point, you had already been at the scene, ma'am, an hour and a half approximately; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not quite an hour and a half.

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MR. NEUFELD: were you taught at the SID, Miss Mazzola, that acceptable crime scene photography should tell a story by itself absent of any written or oral narration? Were you taught that concept?
MS. MAZZOLA: Something like that, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And were you taught, Miss Mazzola, at SID that the photographs should have some scale in it so a person who's looking at the photograph will know how big the object is?
MR. GOLDBERG: It's vague as to what type of photograph.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: Were you taught that?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if we were or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, let me--just for a second, look at what is here in this picture, photograph b on Prosecution's exhibit 120. Do you see it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And do you see a red stain in the picture?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree, ma'am, that if there was no ruler in that picture, you would have-- a viewer would have no idea how large that stain is? Would you agree?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: and isn't it true that because of that fact, you were taught at SID that it is important to put some kind of scale or ruler in a photograph so when someone looks at the photograph, they will have an idea as to how large the stain is?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is possibility, to have a ruler in the scene.
MR. NEUFELD: I'm not asking you whether it's a possibility, ma'am. I'm asking you whether or not your instructors at the Los Angeles Police Department Scientific Investigation Division taught you that for forensic photography, that you should put or instruct the photographer to put a ruler in the picture when you take a picture of a bloodstain so that anyone else who is looking at it will know how big the stain is.
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't believe they told us that. Forensic photographers know how to photograph evidence. It's up to them.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, isn't the job of the criminalist to instruct and direct the forensic photographer at the scene? Isn't that one of your responsibilities?
MS. MAZZOLA: It is the supervising Criminalist's responsibility.

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MR. NEUFELD: So would it be fair to say that it was Dennis Fung's responsibility as the senior criminalist at the scene to instruct the forensic photographers on how to take the pictures of various items of evidence?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not as to how, but which items he wanted photographed.
MR. NEUFELD: Isn't it--weren't you instructed, Miss Mazzola, to make sure there was comprehensive coverage of each item of evidence at the crime scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And weren't you instructed, ma'am, to make sure that the forensic photographer takes close-up shots as well as distant shots of each item of evidence?
MS. MAZZOLA: Photographers are trained to-­
MR. NEUFELD: I--I'm sorry.
MS. MAZZOLA: Go ahead.
MR. NEUFELD: I asked whether you were instructed to make sure that that happens, you being a criminalist.
MS. MAZZOLA: We were given information on the way the forensic photographers photograph crime scenes.
MR. NEUFELD: And who brings the numbers that are put down to identify different items for the photographer to take pictures of?
MS. MAZZOLA: We do.
MR. NEUFELD: That's your job, the criminalist, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Right.
MR. NEUFELD: You set the item numbers down?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now I'm going to question about the board.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And I believe you said on direct examination that Dennis Fung was not with you when you collected item 7 and item 8 at Rockingham; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And he was with you when items 4, 5 and 6 were collected; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And item 4 is shown--I'm sorry--in photograph a, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And item 5 and 6 is shown in photograph c, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, in items 5 and 6, is there a ruler in the photograph?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did Dennis Fung instruct the photographer to place a ruler in the photograph?
MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for speculation.
MR. NEUFELD: In your presence.
MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry, your Honor. Is there a ruling on--
THE COURT: No. You rephrased the question. I assume you withdrew it and rephrased it.
MR. NEUFELD: No. I rephrased it for the--okay.
MS. MAZZOLA: In my presence, no.

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MR. NEUFELD: Well, did--there's only one photograph here that has an arrow and a northerly direction on it; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: There appears to be, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And that's for item 7, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And item 7, Dennis Fung wasn't with you when you collected it, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, the person that was with you when you collected item 7 was a--one of the most senior supervisors in the whole SID, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And what's his name?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Steve Johnson.
MR. NEUFELD: And did Mr. Johnson direct that the "N" in the arrow be placed in the photograph?
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not remember.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, did you direct that it be placed in the photograph?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Would you agree, ma'am, that in terms of the drops that were collected, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, that for those drops that do not have a ruler in the picture, there is no record of the size of those drops?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree, ma'am, that for the drops at Bundy, there is no ruler in any of those photographs?
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe that is so.
MR. NEUFELD: You believe it's so, that there is no ruler in any of those photographs?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And so would you also agree that there is no record for the size of any of these bloodstains at Bundy--of the drops on the walkway?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And would you also agree that all blood drops are not the same size?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is definitely correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And as you sit here today 10 months later, do you have an independent recollection of the size of each bloodstain at Rockingham and Bundy?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: And at any time while you were at Rockingham and Bundy, did Dennis Fung instruct you to note the size of each of the bloodstains in writing on the field notes?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, this is irrelevant and under 352, I object.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No, he did not.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, did you personally do the phenolphtalein test on the speck next to the driver's handle?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And did you do that at the direction of Dennis Fung?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And after you did the phenolphtalein test and it came up magenta, pink, you collected that swatch, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And to your knowledge, to this day, Miss Mazzola, has any confirmatory test ever been done to make sure that that speck was human blood?
MR. GOLDBERG: Asked and answered, hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled. Do you know if any confirmatory test was done on that?
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not know.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now, back at Rockingham in the morning of June 13th, isn't it a fact that you personally and exclusively collected every drop of blood that was seen at Rockingham?
MS. MAZZOLA: Mr. Fung assisted on a few of the drops.
MR. NEUFELD: When you say that Dennis Fung assisted on a few of the drops, what do you mean by that?
MS. MAZZOLA: That he also took some swatches.
MR. NEUFELD: And on which items did he--do you now say that he also took some swatches?
MR. GOLDBERG: Your Honor, this has been asked and answered, this whole thing.
THE COURT: Rephrase the question.
MR. NEUFELD: You say this morning that Dennis Fung assisted you on some of the stains?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you say what you mean by assisting you, that he took some of the swatches?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Do you mean that for some items, you took some swatches and he took some swatches? MS. MAZZOLA: Correct. MR. NEUFELD: so on each of the items, you personally took swatches? MS. MAZZOLA: Correct. MR. NEUFELD: But at least as to some, he also took some swatches; is that correct? MS. MAZZOLA: Correct. MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, when you testified on direct examination or on cross-examination last Thursday, didn't you say that with respect to items 4, 5 and 6, that Dennis Fung alone was the collector of those items and not you? Wasn't that your testimony just this last Thursday? MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember if it was or not.

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MR. NEUFELD: Were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? "Question: Miss Mazzola, you said a moment ago that you testified this morning on direct examination that it is now your recollection that Mr. Fung and not you collected the drops, items number 4, 5 and 6; is that correct? "Answer: That's correct." Did you give that answer to that question last Thursday?
MS. MAZZOLA: If you have it, I guess I did.
MR. NEUFELD: You don't recall?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, motion to strike the witness' answer.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: Would you prefer to actually read it yourself, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: No. That's--that's fine.
MR. NEUFELD: Huh?
MS. MAZZOLA: I'll take your word for it.
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, I would make a motion to strike the comment-­
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola--
THE COURT: Overruled. Excuse me, counsel. When other counsel is making an objection, would you at least allow them to finish?
MR. NEUFELD: Certainly.
THE COURT: Proceed.
MR. NEUFELD: So, Miss Mazzola, on Thursday, you testified that you were not involved in the collection of 4, 5 and 6 and that Dennis Fung collected that; is that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Misstates the testimony.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: Is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: At the time, I thought that Mr. Fung alone had, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: That was as recently as last Thursday?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And now today, you have a different recollection of what transpired back on June 13th, 1994? Is that your testimony, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you testified on August 23rd, 1994, at that point, it was your recollection, was it not, that you had personally collected all the blood drops at Rockingham; is that correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: I object to that.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. NEUFELD: Have you looked at any notes to refresh your recollection between Thursday and today that led you to change your mind from Thursday to today's testimony with respect to who collected what on items 4, 5 and 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: Notes, no.
MR. NEUFELD: Have you looked at any videotapes to refresh your recollection so that you would change your memory as to who collected what portions of 4, 5 and 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: Videos, no.
MR. NEUFELD: Have you looked at any documents to refresh your recollection that you didn't have available to you last Thursday so you could have a different memory as to who collected what with respect to items 4, 5 and 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: Documents, no.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you have a conversation with any members of the Prosecution staff between last Thursday and today with regard to who collected items 4, 5 and 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did you have a conversation with Dennis Fung between Thursday and today as to who collected items 4, 5 and 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: But you now say that it's your recollec--that your recollection has changed your memory of what your involvement was with regard to items 4, 5 and 6 from just this last Thursday to today; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And, ma'am, it would be fair to say-- I think you said it earlier--that you never wrote down in your notes which of you collected which items; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And so the only way you can recall or testify as to who collected which items is strictly from your independent recollection; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Has your memory of who collected which items been aided by the prep sessions that you had with the Prosecutors in this case?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: You testified on August 23rd, 1994--were you asked these questions and did you give these answers? "Question: And which—I'm sorry. At Bundy again. At Bundy again, were there certain bloodstains that you collected and other bloodstains that were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: Yes. "Question: And which bloodstains were collected by Mr. Fung? "Answer: I believe he collected the red stains that were near the shoeprints that were made on the walkway. "Question: Would you please look at your notes and tell me which numbers those are? "Question: And when you say that, you say he collected the actual foot--shoeprints or he collected alleged drops that were near the shoeprints? "Answer: He if I remember correctly took swatches of the red stains that were constituting the footprint itself. "Question: Can you tell us which ones those were, please? "Answer: Property items 55 and 56. "Question: And that is it? "Answer: Yes. "Question: All other bloodstains at the Bundy crime scene were collected by you, ma'am? "Answer: Yes. "And while he collected 55 and 56, were you collecting some of your bloodstains? "Answer: Yes." Were you asked those questions and did you give those answers under oath on August 23rd, 1994?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And on August 23rd, 1994, ma'am, would you agree that the events of June 13th were fresher in your mind than they are now 10 months later?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not necessarily fresher.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, would you agree, ma'am, that your memory of an event that happened two months previously is stronger than your memory of an event that happened 10 months previously?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, that question is irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I had not thought of the events of June 13th since we had gotten done with the property reports up until the time I walked into this courtroom for the griffin hearing.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, would you agree that your memory of an event that happened two months prior to your testifying is fresher than it is when you've had 10 months gone by?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not necessarily.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Well, Miss Mazzola, June 13th, you collected these items; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: And, Miss Mazzola, you were relying exclusively on your memory, on your independent recollection when you testified on August 23rd, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That and Mr. Matheson's notes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Mr. Matheson's notes were the original notes that you and Dennis Fung took on June 13th; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know if they were the originals or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, the notes that—well, were they copies of the notes that you and Dennis Fung took then on June 13th?
MS. MAZZOLA: They could have been copies, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Or originals?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's true.
MR. NEUFELD: And what those notes were the sum total of all the notes that you and Dennis Fung took on June 13th at Bundy and Rockingham; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And that would constitute the field notes and the crime scene inspection list that this jury has already seen; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And there are no other notes, are there, that were prepared by you that you've used to refresh your recollection today?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: And there were no other notes other than those notes that you relied upon to refresh your recollection when you testified on August 23rd; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And when you testified on August 23rd, ma'am, isn't it a fact that there was no way—there is no note saying which items you personally collected and which items Dennis Fung personally collected?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And so between August 23rd and today, ma'am, it's not as if you've had additional notes to look at which will help you to remember which items Dennis Fung collected as opposed to which items you collected; isn't that right?
MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative.
THE COURT: Sustained as phrased.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, Miss Mazzola, are there any other notes other than your field notes that you got from Mr. Matheson that day that indicate which items you collected and which items Dennis Fung collected?
MS. MAZZOLA: Notes, no.
MR. NEUFELD: And there are no notes, ma'am, or reports that were prepared by you that you looked at on August 23rd which indicated which items you collected and which items Dennis Fung collected, correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Badgering the witness in terms of testimony.
THE COURT: We're there. All right.
MR. NEUFELD: Can I just ask two more questions and I'll finish this area?
THE COURT: Two more. Slower though. However, the Court reporter is about to go on us.
MR. NEUFELD: So both today and on August 23rd, you're relying exclusively on your independent recollection as opposed to any documentary evidence to recall which items you collected and which items Dennis Fung collected, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Memory and photographs.
MR. NEUFELD: Are you--do you--have you seen a single photograph showing Dennis Fung collecting items 4, 5 or 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: At the Griffen hearing, I did not have a chance to look at the photographs before.
MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, I'm simply asking you this, please. Have you seen a single photograph between June 13th and this morning or this afternoon that shows Dennis Fung collecting items 4, 5 or 6?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: All right. Well, Miss Mazzola, let me ask you a question: You said before that when you collected item 7, the blood drop on the Rockingham driveway-­
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: --you said Dennis Fung wasn't even there to observe; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you collected that one yourself, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, this chart here, this LAPD evidence disposition summary, says for item no. 7 "Collected," it says, "Fung and Mazzola, 6/13/94." Do you see that? If you want to step down, please do.
MS. MAZZOLA: I have seen it when you put it up.
MR. NEUFELD: That is not correct? You are the person who collected item number-­
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. GOLDBERG: It is vague as to what he means by "Collect."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. NEUFELD: Isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: I physically swatched it, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, Miss Mazzola, on August 23rd when you were asked questions about what you collected, you understood the word "Collect" to mean that you physically swatched and collected those swatches; isn't that right?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And that is your--you understood the meaning--I'm sorry. Withdrawn. You understood the word "Collect" to mean that on August 23rd, and that is the normal way that you use the word "Collect"; is it not?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. So again, Miss Mazzola, on this Prosecution exhibit where it says "No. 7," "Item no. 7 Fung and Mazzola collected by," that is not correct? It was only collected by you, Miss Mazzola; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: It was collected by me, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Thank you.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now, let me show you the other LAPD evidence summary board which is 177-C. Do you remember the drops along the pathway at Bundy?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: That would be items 47, 48, 49, 50 and 52, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Let me double-check on that.

(Briefpause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And you personally collected item 47, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Let's see. 47 was-­
MR. NEUFELD: One moment.

(Briefpause.)

MR. NEUFELD: Isn't that correct, ma'am, you personally collected item 47?
MS. MAZZOLA: I did. Mr. Fung managed to get a little more blood off of that one spot, but I collected the majority of it.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, what--can I see what you are looking at now to refresh your recollection?
MS. MAZZOLA: I'm just looking at this, because this is the one that was at the corner of the house, the first drop on the trail.

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MR. NEUFELD: Isn't it a fact, ma'am, with respect to item 47, even after the meeting you had with Dennis Fung, you indicated that 47 was collected only by Mazzola?
MS. MAZZOLA: At the time I thought that was correct, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And you thought that was correct when you testified on August 23rd also, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And with respect to item 48, ma'am, you were the only person who collected that item, too, weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And with respect to item 49, ma'am, you were the only person who collected that as well, weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: There was one other drop on the trail that Mr. Fung helped with. I don't remember which one it was.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, when you met with Dennis Fung at this discussion that you had after August 23rd and you reviewed with him who collected what, didn't you put down that you, only you, Mazzola, collected item 49?
MS. MAZZOLA: At the time I did, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And Miss Mazzola, as respect to item no. 50, weren't you the only person who collected that?
MS. MAZZOLA: Let me check my sketch.

(Briefpause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And Miss Mazzola, as to item 52, you were the only person who collected that, too, weren't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: In fact, Mr. Fung wasn't even observing you collect item 52, was he?
MS. MAZZOLA: Item 52? No, Mr. Fung was not there.
MR. NEUFELD: So the Prosecutor's diagram where it says, for instance, on item 52 "Collected by Fung and Mazzola," that is incorrect, isn't it?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, that calls for speculation.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. GOLDBERG: Conclusion.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: As it stands there, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: That is incorrect?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And as to item 50, Miss Mazzola, where the Prosecutor's exhibit says, "Item 50 collected by Fung and Mazzola," that, too, is incorrect, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And with respect to item 48, Miss Mazzola, where it says, "Collected by Fung and Mazzola," that, too, is incorrect in the Prosecution's exhibit, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: That one I don't know about. As I said before, there is one stain on the path that Mr. Fung helped with. I don't remember exactly which one.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, there is one stain-­
THE COURT: Wait, wait, wait.
MR. NEUFELD: I'm sorry.
THE COURT: Let her finish the answer.
MR. NEUFELD: If there is one stain that you say that you have a recollection that he helped you collect, then as to the other stains on that walkway where it says, "Fung and Mazzola" collecting it, as to other stains, that would all be incorrect; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: No. 47 he helped with and there is one other that he helped with on this path.
MR. NEUFELD: So as to the other three, Miss Mazzola, this board would be incorrect; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now, you said that the reason a, b and c were uncollected is because you were only interested in collecting what you termed representative stains; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, at Bundy, ma'am, every drop along that walkway was collected, wasn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: You didn't leave out any drops simply because you deemed them representative, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Or I'm sorry, because you didn't deem them relevant, did you?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is vague as to which drops.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. At Bundy there were five drops, 47, 48, 49, 50 and 52 that you observed on June 13th, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And you collected them all?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: There were no other drops along that same walkway that you didn't--that you saw but didn't collect; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: So you did not know on June 13th which direction these drops were going in, did you?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, other than items a, b and c which were photographed but not collected, was there anything else worth documenting with a photograph on the driveway that was photographed?
MS. MAZZOLA: I do not believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: That was it, just the--just those drops, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 and a, b and c; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: I'm not sure what else the photographer took pictures of.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola, would you agree that the blood drop that you have identified as no. 5--I'm sorry--as no. 6, as a and as b are all to the left side of the driveway as you walk in toward the house? Is that a fair statement?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, Miss Mazzola, Detective Vannatter testified that it was his theory that Mr. Simpson had returned home the night of the 13th or the 12th, I'm sorry, and opened the gate and walked directly along the south side of this driveway toward the location where the glove was recovered?
MR. GOLDBERG: This is an improper question.
MR. NEUFELD: I'm laying a foundation, your Honor. It is a hypothetical.
THE COURT: All right. Assume that.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay.

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MR. NEUFELD: I'm going to show you what has been previously admitted as exhibit 1072 which is a surveyor's drawing of Mr. Simpson's home and property. Do you see that? Have you had a chance to look at it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Now, the only blood stain that is on the south side of the driveway would be stain a; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: (No audible response.)
MR. NEUFELD: Which wasn't collected by you?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: And would you agree that the distance from stain a to the location where the glove was collected is a distance of approximately 250 feet?
MR. GOLDBERG: Well, no foundation that she knows.
THE COURT: Sustained. Rephrase the question.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, do you know where the glove was collected, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: I know the area, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And you had seen it?
MS. MAZZOLA: I had not seen the glove before it was collected.
MR. NEUFELD: But you were shown the place where it had been collected by Mr. Fung?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And by looking at this surveyor's drawing of Mr. Simpson's house and property, can you see the approximate location where it was, approximately?
MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. Now, beginning at the curb and going to that location, approximately how many feet is that?
MR. GOLDBERG: No foundation that she knows.
THE COURT: Looking at that can you tell what the distance is?
MS. MAZZOLA: The approximate distance.
THE COURT: All right. What is the approximate distance?
MS. MAZZOLA: It is approximately 250 feet from the curb.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. And now, instead of the curb, if we come into the location of stain a, which is the one stain that is on the south side of the driveway, approximately how far is stain a from the curb, approximately?
MS. MAZZOLA: From the curb?
MR. NEUFELD: Yes.
MS. MAZZOLA: Let me check.

(Briefpause.)

MS. MAZZOLA: It is approximately twenty feet or so.
MR. NEUFELD: All right. So would it be fair to say that the distance from stain a to the glove is approximately 230 feet?
MS. MAZZOLA: Approximately, yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it true that when you were at Rockingham on the 13th you examined the walkway for evidence, the walkway leading up to the garage?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes. Mr. Fung and myself looked at the driveway.
MR. NEUFELD: And you were examining the driveway for blood evidence, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And then you also examined the walkway on the south side of the house heading out to where the glove was recovered, did you not?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And isn't it a fact that on that walkway, all the way to where the glove was recovered, you never saw any drop of blood on the sidewalk?
MS. MAZZOLA: Personally, no.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, the last two stains that you swatched and collected that morning were no. 7 and 8, right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And as to no. 7 and 8, did you keep swatching those two drops until you had collected the entire blood stain?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't recall if I did or not.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, was it your standard procedure to do that?
MS. MAZZOLA: To get up as much as possible, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Oh, Okay. And to the best of your recollection did you get up as much of the stain that was visible as you possibly could?
MS. MAZZOLA: (No audible response.)
MR. NEUFELD: As to item 7 and item 8?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is vague as to "Visible."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I think I got up as much as I could.

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MR. NEUFELD: I believe you said, Miss Mazzola, that the only training you have received in collecting blood stains is for--is for serological testing in general and not for DNA testing in particular; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not in DNA particular, that's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Are there any written guidelines in the--that you have received from the LAPD dealing with any of the particular problems encountered with DNA evidence?
MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Have you received any handouts from the LAPD regarding the negative effects that heat and humidity have on the reliability of blood stain evidence?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Are you aware, to your knowledge, as you sit here today, as to whether heat and humidity can have negative effects on the reliability of blood stain evidence?
MR. GOLDBERG: It is vague as to "Reliability."
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I know that it can affect them. I'm not sure to what extent.

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MR. NEUFELD: When you say you are aware that heat and humidity can affect--can affect DNA--I'm sorry. Withdrawn. When say you are aware that heat and humidity can have an effect on blood stain evidence, what effect is it that you believe it will have?
MS. MAZZOLA: That it might have some effect on the testing, but I'm not sure to what extent or how it would be affected.
MR. NEUFELD: No one has told you how heat and humidity will affect blood stain evidence, only that it has an effect? Is that what you are saying, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: Well, I don't know personally how much it would degrade, if at all, and over what period of time.
MR. NEUFELD: Ah, okay, but as you sit here today, it is your understanding that the effect of heat and humidity are that it can degrade the blood stain evidence; is that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is one possibility.

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MR. NEUFELD: Okay. Now, in this particular case you took wet blood swatches and you placed them in a clear plastic bag; isn't that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And then you fold over the top of the plastic bag so they don't fall out; isn't that correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: And sometimes these wet swatches that are in the plastic bag actually stick together, don't they?
MS. MAZZOLA: That happens.
MR. NEUFELD: Sometimes they even stick to the side of the plastic bag, don't they?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Were you aware that putting wet swatches in a plastic bag causes the swatches to retain moisture?
MS. MAZZOLA: I was not told that.
MR. NEUFELD: But you knew that anyway, didn't you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: I mean, you know that just from your everyday experiences, that if you take a wet item and if you put it in a plastic bag and you close the top of the plastic bag, it is going to still be real moist in there, isn't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: It will stay moist, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: As opposed to if you take the item out of the plastic bag and let it dry in the air it will dry much faster, won't it?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And did you know, prior to taking the witness stand today, that by keeping the swatches moist in that plastic bag that that can—I'm sorry. That that can promote the growth of bacteria on those swatches? Did you know that?
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes facts not in evidence as phrased.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No, not really.
MR. NEUFELD: Have you ever had the common everyday experience of putting a wet item, such as a wet bathing suit or something, in a plastic bag and then taking it out hours later and it smells moldy? Has that ever happened to you?
MS. MAZZOLA: I would say it smells moldy.

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MR. NEUFELD: And have you been told by people at LAPD that just like moisture, heat also can promote bacterial growth?
MS. MAZZOLA: It is possible, yes.
MR. NEUFELD: And have you been told by people at LAPD--by the way, did you have these conversations with people at LAPD prior to June 13th, 1994, or since June 13th, 1994?
MS. MAZZOLA: I can't remember exactly when it was.
MR. NEUFELD: Do you remember where it was?
MS. MAZZOLA: At work.
MR. NEUFELD: Was it just a casual conversation or was it one of the lectures at the mini academy?
MS. MAZZOLA: I'm not really sure.
MR. NEUFELD: And did any of these people, who you had these discussions with at work, talk to you about the combined effects of heat and humidity on a wet blood swatch kept in a sealed plastic bag?
MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: well, did those people tell you, I think you said a moment ago, that heat can cause bacteria to develop? Isn't that right?
MR. GOLDBERG: Calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: It is a possibility that it could occur.
MR. NEUFELD: And that humidity, the moisture of the swatch in the sealed plastic bag can also possibly cause bacteria to develop as well? You were told that by these people at LAPD; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: Yes.

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MR. NEUFELD: Ma'am, have you been taught at the LAPD Scientific Investigation Division that with respect to preserving wet stains you should do the following: "Items containing wet blood, semen or chemical stains shall be permitted to dry at room temperature before packaging. Plastic containers or plastic wrap shall not be used as a packaging material?" Were you taught that at LAPD?
MS. MAZZOLA: For final booking, yes, that is entirely correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Well, ma'am, were you given particular pages of the LAPD manual to know for booking evidence?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Were you told by anybody at SID that the LAPD manual is simply a guideline and not rules which you are required to follow?
MR. GOLDBERG: Irrelevant.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: I believe I heard it was to be used as a guideline.
MR. NEUFELD: And who told you that it was a guideline, ma'am?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember offhand.
MR. NEUFELD: Was it one of your supervisors at the mini academy?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't remember.
MR. NEUFELD: One moment, your Honor.

(Briefpause.)

(Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)

MR. NEUFELD: Are you aware of the fact, Miss Mazzola, that the Los Angeles Police Department manual states: "That all employees of the department are to conform with the rules and provisions herein contained"? Are you aware of that?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes fact not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Would you agree, ma'am, that that statement from the Los Angeles Police Department manual declares that this manual sets directions for you and they are not simply guidelines, correct?
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: Umm--
MR. NEUFELD: Would you like me to show you the actual section of the manual?
THE COURT: Excuse me, counsel. We have gone through this manual in front of this jury for approximately 45 minutes with another witness. You've already established what was done in this case. You've established what the manual says.
MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, you stated that your understanding of the section in the LAPD manual on preserving wet stains is only instructions for final packaging, not temporary packaging; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Is there any place in the actual rule listed in the LAPD manual that creates that exemption for temporary packaging?
MS. MAZZOLA: I-­
MR. NEUFELD: Do you see that anywhere in the rules?
MS. MAZZOLA: I don't know. I haven't read it.
MR. NEUFELD: You have never read the LAPD manual section on how to preserve wet stains?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Is that what you are saying?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Have any of your instructors at the LAPD ever read to you the section from the Los Angeles Police Department manual on how to preserve wet stains at a crime scene?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not from the manual, no, I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: No one in the whole year and a half that you have been there has ever read that to you?
MS. MAZZOLA: Not from the manual.
MR. NEUFELD: You have never read it yourself?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Now, section 510.12 of the Los Angeles Police Department manual states, A: "Analyzed evidence requiring freezer storage shall be booked at Central Property Division no later than six hours after it is obtained." During the time that you have been at the Los Angeles Police Department have you ever personally read that section of the LAPD manual?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. GOLDBERG: Assumes facts not in evidence.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: During the year and a half that you have been with the Los Angeles Police Department has anybody at the LAPD SID mini academy ever read to you this particular section of the Los Angeles Police Department manual?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.

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MR. NEUFELD: Would you agree, ma'am, that neither you nor Mr. Fung booked any of the evidence that needed to be frozen within six hours after it was obtained?
MS. MAZZOLA: That is correct.

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MR. NEUFELD: Miss Mazzola, I show you what has already been previously introduced as Prosecution exhibit 163-H which are three analyzed evidence envelopes. Now, when you obtained a reference sample of fresh blood, what color envelope is it to be stored in?
MS. MAZZOLA: I know in toxicology we receive our blood sample in the gray envelope.
MR. NEUFELD: And since you have been--I'm sorry. That is your only experience with--with receiving blood vials, would be in toxicology?
MS. MAZZOLA: Except for the occasion in this case which I had limited involvement with the blood.
MR. NEUFELD: Okay. And in those cases where you receive a fresh--a fresh vial of blood, it is in the gray envelope; is that right?
MS. MAZZOLA: That's right.
MR. NEUFELD: And on the gray envelope under the word "Analyzed evidence," would you please tell the jury what it says.
MS. MAZZOLA: "To be refrigerated."
MR. NEUFELD: And that is an instruction to the person that holds that gray envelope that the evidence is to be refrigerated, correct?
MS. MAZZOLA: Correct.
MR. NEUFELD: Have you ever been told by anyone, since you have been working at the Los Angeles Police Department SID, that it is perfectly okay, instead of refrigerating a blood vial, to leave it on a counter overnight in a trash bag? Has anyone ever told you that?
MR. GOLDBERG: Argumentative, calls for hearsay.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MS. MAZZOLA: No, I don't believe so.
MR. NEUFELD: Did anyone ever teach you at what rate blood breaks down and degrades?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.
MR. NEUFELD: Did anyone at SID mini academy ever teach you that it is okay to let wet blood stains remain in a sealed plastic bag in the rear of a truck in the middle of June for seven hours?
MS. MAZZOLA: That was never brought up.
MR. NEUFELD: It was never brought up at the mini academy?
MS. MAZZOLA: No.