"It is important to note that the officer explained to Rylee that she would let him off with a warning if he simply filled in the hole. But Rylee wasn’t buying it".

Well, here we go again. As far as I'm concerned, anything that happened after he refused a reasonable offer is on him. Asshole.

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole,

I'd say if you are too stupid or blind to see a hole in the ground where kids are having some fun, then you alone are responsible.

As far as the metal tools, I guess you think that the kids are just going to leave them strewn around the beach.

As far as I'm concerned, anything that happened after he refused a reasonable offer is on him.

Yeah sure - he should have just bent over and taken it. That's what you'd do, right paulsen?

You'd never question any cop or ask to see the ordinance that you are supposedly violating.

Asshole.

For politely asking what law he had broken and asking to be shown a copy of the ordinance?

You really do have that "authority fetish" thing down pat.

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole, and injure myself on a metal tool, who do I sue -- him or the city?

You should consult a psychiatrist to assess your capabilities of good moral judgement and sound observational abilities about yourself to perceive risk around yourself. It is obvious you have none.

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole, and injure myself on a metal tool, who do I sue -- him or the city?

I'd say you should sue yourself for failing to be responsible enough to watch where you are running.

" I'd say you should sue yourself for failing to be responsible enough to watch where you are running. "

LOL !! BINGO !!

When the tourist business dollars dry up, the PD budget may shrink. That will make them proud.

"You'd never question any cop or ask to see the ordinance that you are supposedly violating."

You mean set up a mini-courtroom on the beach to present evidence and call witnesses? You sure you want the police to do that, not a judge?

"I'd say if you are too stupid or blind to see a hole in the ground where kids are having some fun, then you alone are responsible."

And the people who are too stupid or blind to see water on the floor at Walmart and slip and fall -- they alone are responsible, too? Is that what happens? They take full responsibility for being stupid and blind?

And the people who are too stupid or blind to see water on the floor at Walmart

Last time I checked, Walmart did not have any stores located on any beaches.

Not a bad idea though. You can go shopping with the seagulls.

"This may come as a shock to you, but it's actually in the best interests of the police to maintain a good relationship with the general public, and taking a kind rather than militant approach to people having fun on a public beach who don't know that they *might* be violating an ordinance can go a long way to promoting those good relations."

From the article: "It is important to note that the officer explained to Rylee that she would let him off with a warning if he simply filled in the hole." But the asshole refused.

So, who was acting nice and who was acting like a jerk?

"Last time I checked, Walmart did not have any stores located on any beaches."

Really? Then where could the water have possibly come from?

"Where is the notice posted on that public beach that says metal shovels are prohibited there?"

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

How the Supreme Court Made It Legal for Cops to Pull You Over for Just About Anything (Even an Air Freshener)

Legal principles can be complicated, but in most courts, until eight months ago, there was a pretty simple one: Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Then came Heien v. North Carolina, decided by the U.S. Supreme Court in December.

Now the principle is: Ignorance of the law is no excuse — unless you’re the cop enforcing the law, in which case it is, or at least can be, depending upon whether your ignorance is reasonable or not, to be determined upon later review.

8 Ways We Regularly Commit Felonies Without Realizing It

You might even commit a felony or two today, who knows?

The fact is that we live in an overcriminalized society where vague federal laws are dangerous for everyone, lawyers, judges and police officers included. This ambiguity invites varying interpretations and could stamp a permanent criminal record on the otherwise squeaky clean slate of an unknowing, harmless individual.

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole, and injure myself on a metal tool, who do I sue -- him or the city?

That would mean you are a dumb ass and messed up my kids sandcastle. That means you get your ass kicked. That is what happens to assholes. They get their asses kicked.

Well, here we go again. As far as I'm concerned, anything that happened after he refused a reasonable offer is on him. Asshole.

As far as I am concerned you are a police state asslicker. You really need your ass kicked. I'm going to cry because I tripped in a hole because I am a stupid geezer to stupid to see there is a sandcastle. Your mom must have raised you as a little pussy who got bullied in school. Then you ran to your mommy and the principal. Now you run to the police man because some kid built a sandcastle. Pathetic.

The pig needs to have his ass kicked too. Oink Oink.

You mean set up a mini-courtroom on the beach to present evidence and call witnesses?

No he means just slam your head with a shovel until you shut the fuck up.

And the people who are too stupid or blind to see water on the floor at Walmart and slip and fall -- they alone are responsible, too?

No you are responsible. The cops should beat you up for it.

"It is important to note that the officer explained to Rylee that she would let him off with a warning if he simply filled in the hole."

I'd fill in the hole. After I went to the store and got some concrete and stuck her head in it.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

That is why the police should just shoot you. I'm sure you broke some law.

So, who was acting nice and who was acting like a jerk?

Because the cop offered to let the family enjoying a day at the beach off with a "warning"?

A good cop, seeing a potential problem, if indeed there was a real reason why the hole was a real problem, would have approached the family in a friendly way, complimented them on the well above average work of the sand castle, and then informed them that the only problem with it was the hole, that in fact, it was a violation of ordinance to have one that deep, and that it's a good ordinance because [fill in the blank] and then ask them to please fill it in because she's got a job to do and she sees they are having a good time, and thank you! If they ask about the exact ordinance, then take the time to look it up and show them, and if they disagree, provide them some information about how they could do their civil part to change the ordinance, and in fact, encourage them to try because it's always good when more people get involved in voicing their say in government big and small.

But no, it seems she didn't do that. Instead she employed the ransom method of diplomacy, demanding they comply in exchange for a reduced punishment. The guy is going to get written up either way. There will be file created with his name on it at the police station, so they'll know who he is the NEXT time they see him making a f**king sand castle, dammit. So, in answer to your question of who was acting like a jerk, given the story as reported, which granted is slanted, I'd answer that the the cop was a jerk.

Really? Then where could the water have possibly come from?

Stores are private property employed as commercial zones open to the public. As such, store owners are responsible for maintaining them so they are safe for public use.

The beach in question is not privately owned and is not a place of business, so there is no owner that has a commercial level of responsibility for it's safe maintenance. So your analogy falls apart on those grounds (no pun intended). Beaches are shared public property for personal use, and making sand castles and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA. Now perhaps you want to take the liberal stance that would mandate restrictions in beach use that would help ensure that stupid people don't get hurt. If so, that's your right.

"As such, store owners are responsible for maintaining them so they are safe for public use."

As is the city in maintaining the beaches for public safety.

They also prohibit glass containers on the beach. Do you object to that also? Are individuals who cut themselves on broken glass responsible because they're either "too stupid or blind" to see it?

"A good cop, seeing a potential problem, if indeed there was a real reason why the hole was a real problem, would have approached the family in a friendly way, complimented them on the well above average work of the sand castle, and then informed them that the only problem with it was the hole, that in fact, it was a violation of ordinance to have one that deep, and that it's a good ordinance because [fill in the blank] and then ask them to please fill it in because she's got a job to do and she sees they are having a good time, and thank you!"

How do you know she didn't do that? I'm saying she could have written a ticket costing him $500 and up to 60 days in jail. She chose instead to give him a warning -- if he filled in the hole.

99.99% of good citizens, realizing they were given a break, would fill in the hole and be done with it. This jagoff refused to do so.

At that point, I would have written the ticket for the full amount and let him plead his case with the judge. I'm not going to stand there and argue with some asshole after I was nice enough to offer him a way out.

"I'm sure you broke some law."

If I did, it wasn't because I was so stupid as to argue with a cop who was trying to cut me some slack.

"I'd fill in the hole. After I went to the store and got some concrete and stuck her head in it."

Yeah! That'll teach her to enforce the law! Damn rogue cop.

Now, after you did that, I assume you would then organize an effort to repeal all these stupid beach ordinances and allow metal rakes and shovels, holes 10 feet deep, glass bottles, alcohol and animals on the beach.

No, you probablly wouldn't. Changing the law is just too much work. Besides, I'm guessing the vast majority of the people asked for these laws to begin with. You're in the minority. So sad.

Perhaps you can find a beach more suitable to your anarchistic philosophy. Here ya go. Use your rake to clear a spot:

If the law is immoral you follow it to a T.

If you lived in Germany in the 30's you would say it was the law the Jew were gassed. They should have lobbied and changed the law.

If you were alive during the revolutionary war. You would have said revolution is illegal and someone might get hurt.

You're such a wuss.

Here ya go. Use your rake to clear a spot:

I don't have a plastic rake, paulsen, you statist.

"If the law is immoral I ignore it."

There is nothing immoral about prohibiting deep holes, metal shovels, glass, alcohol or animals on a public beach. Other people have rights, too. Or do you you think the U.S. Constitution was written only for you?

You are one selfish individual, thinking that the world revolves around you and you can do anything you want. Society's rules are for other people, right?

I would suggest that you pack up your belongings and move above the tree lne where you're on your own and can do anything you want. You obviously don't fit in any organized society.

"I don't have a plastic rake, paulsen, you statist."

On that beach you can have any kind of rake your little heart desires. You have FREEDOM there, just like you want. Watch your step!

There is nothing immoral about building a sandcastle with a metal shovel.

Assholes who enforce stupid laws are the problem.

I'll do whatever I want and no one has ever stopped me and no one ever will.

Because my moral code God gave me is far superior to what is required by law.

You champion so called law over common sense and good morals.

"There is nothing immoral about building a sandcastle with a metal shovel."

Isn't violating a valid, constitutional law immoral? Isn't it immoral to teach your children to violate a valid, constitutional law? Isn't it immoral to violate the rights of others?

You don't even live there and you're going to tell the citizens of Panama City Beach what's moral and immoral and how they should live their life? Who are you to do that?

"Assholes who enforce stupid laws are the problem."

Why? Because it's easier to strike back at law enforcement than it is to change the stupid law? Change the law, idiot!

Isn't violating a valid, constitutional law immoral?

Fugitive slave laws were constitutional. Slavery was constitutional.

Back in the day you would have been shooting and maybe owning slaves.

You are not a leader you are a follower who just does what he is told. No thinking about if it is right or wrong involved. The exact kind of person God created us not to be.

Isn't it immoral to teach your children to violate a valid, constitutional law?

You teach your kids to obey the law.

You also teach them common sense and morals.

If the law says to do something immoral you are free to ignore it. There may be a cost but doing what is right. When you do what is right and disobey an immoral law you are doing the right thing.

You're probably having a typical liberal reaction in your mind. You are thinking but who says what is moral or immoral. That is a distraction. There is a true right and a true wrong and it is in our conscience. People who say things are moral that are not are just liars.

Isn't it immoral to violate the rights of others?

Yes it is.

For example some asshole coming down the beach and harassing people for playing in the sand.

You don't even live there and you're going to tell the citizens of Panama City Beach what's moral and immoral and how they should live their life?

Yes I am going to comment on this article and say what I believe to be moral.

Why? Because it's easier to strike back at law enforcement than it is to change the stupid law? Change the law, idiot!

No it is best to let them issue their puny citation. Then you fight them in court. You do it by burdening them with motions and not taking plea deals. Dragging it out and spending their money. So even when they win they still lose because you took up their time and they couldn't harass other people that they would have had the time to harass.

Do this on a mass scale and they will only have time to prosecute the real crimes and not harass someone playing in the sand. Sand that in a few hours time nature would turn the sand castle and the hole into a smooth sand surface.

"If the law says to do something immoral you are free to ignore it."

Aren't you also free to ignore moral laws?

How about this? If the law says to do something you consider immoral you are free to change it. Assuming, of course, you can find enough people with your sense of morality.

Isn't that the way we so things around here?

"There is a true right and a true wrong and it is in our conscience."

Right. So collectively we get together and vote on an issue based on our conscience. Those who believe the law is moral and just vote in favor. Those who believe the law is stupid and immoral vote against it.

The we count the votes. Majority wins.

No? Not a good system? Then what do you propose, Mein Fuhrer?

Aren't you also free to ignore moral laws?

Of course you are. But you would be acting immorally. So it is your duty to obey moral laws. Not that any of us always do what is our "moral duty" I'm talking theoretically.

If you read what I said there are consequences for breaking immoral laws. There obviously are also consequences for breaking immoral laws.

"For example some asshole coming down the beach and harassing people for playing in the sand."

That should read: A law enforcement officer coming down the beach and enforcing city ordinances. You don't think city ordinances should be enforced?

How about this? If the law says to do something you consider immoral you are free to change it.

You use the word consider. That makes me think you don't believe in absolute morals.

I do. I know them. I don't always follow them but I know them.

I know what your problem is with my thinking. There are to many stupid immoral people in the world who wouldn't lie and say they were following what is right. Well i'm not talking about them. I'm talking about me. I know right and wrong.

Assuming, of course, you can find enough people with your sense of morality.

There you go again "sense".

There is moral and immoral. Not a sense of moral and a sense of immoral.

"So it is your duty to obey moral laws."

Unless I think they're immoral.

I think I should be able to play my music as loud as I want, even if it keeps you awake all night.

Isn't that the way we so things around here?

No. That is not the way it works. It is more random and inconsistent. I might be pissed one day because someone said something that made me. Or I might think someone is an asshole. They don't get treated the same as someone that I like. That's just the way it is. Truth.

"So it is your duty to obey moral laws." Unless I think they're immoral.

Not think, know.

I think I should be able to play my music as loud as I want, even if it keeps you awake all night.

Well you're a liar too then. Because you don't really think that. You really believe the opposite. So do I. So I wouldn't do it. Neither would you.

You had to lie to try to make your point and all you did is help prove mine.

Misterwhite- "I think I should be able to play my music as loud as I want, even if it keeps you awake all night." is a flat out lie. That is not moral it is immoral.

You don't think city ordinances should be enforced?

No….no….no….misterwhite!

Wait, you simply don’t understand what went on here.

Please….let me try to help you understand and carefully consider the facts.

First of all, Bryant Rylee is from Moundville, Alabama.

Yep, Moundville really is the name of the town.

And in Moundville, it is Bryant Rylee’s duty to serve as a …

… wait for it …

… wait for it just a bit longer for it …

It is Bryant Rylee’s most responsible duty to:
      ”serve as a youth minister for the children of Moundville.”

Because in one article, it was explicatively pointed out that Bryant is …

… a devout Christian, [who] says he supports law enforcement and prays “daily for their protection.”

Maybe you can find it in your heart to somehow cut him a little slack….just a a tiny bit, maybe.

For, you see …

This was the weekend spring break at Panama City Beach and what else should youth minister from Moundville be doing on a Sunday morning…except ministering to the children and teaching them by his shining example as a “devout Christian who prays daily for the protection of all law enforcement officers” the correct way to interact properly and safely with law enforcement.

Ole Bryant was just “youth ministering” on this particular Sunday morning…. like a good old youth minister from Moundville, Alabama, should be doing.

There you go …

"Because you don't really think that. You really believe the opposite."

You're right. I do. But if I lived next to you, I would play my music at maximum just to show you what it's like to live under your own philosophy.

I make my own rules. I play my music loud at 3:00 AM. I think it's "moral" to do so, and I don't care what YOU think.

First of all, everyone knows….or should know….after all these years, what goes on at Panama City Beach during spring break.

Therefore, this begs the attention of Bryant …

Why any responsibly intelligent parent would ever take a minor to Panama City Beach during spring break is beyond comprehension by any normal reasoning person.

"The [ordinance] was put in place because a couple of years ago, during Spring Break, we were having college kids dig holes that were probably larger than my desk, where they could play beer pong, we had some sexual assaults down there, we enacted where they couldn't take full size shovels down there, that's what the ordinance states, because kids were using them as weapons, fighting other kids," Panama City Beach Police Chief Drew Whitman said. ¹

Probably not to libertarians, anarchists and cop-haters …

Can I get an "Amen"?

You most certainly do….and a big AMEN at that …

Cue, Sir Sidney Poitier …

Bryant refused and insisted to see a copy of the ordinance that required him to do this.

However, again …

Bryant refused and insisted on paying a fine if he could at least see the ordinance that declared his son’s activities to be illegal. ²

So, WTF, is Bryant’s beef?

Bryant got what he wanted and he did what he said he would do.

So what we have here folks with Bryant is NOT a …

It is quite obvious that Bryant communicated his desires and intentions very clearly to the officer.

Finally, Bryant posted on his social media account that …

I do believe that ‘we the people’ have a right to ask what ordinance number or to see the ordinance.

“We the Police” did not in any way deny Bryant that right….they graciously complied with his insistent request.

So what we now have here, folks….is a showing that Bryant got his 15 minutes of fame and all the libertarians, anarchists and cop-haters, who wanted to do so, got the opportunity to once again bash law enforcement..

Hallelujah….and everyone should now be happy.

Aije raison?

I’d say the asshole, Bryant, is lucky that he dealt with some really benevolent cops.

For, no doubt some officers would have taken action to see Bryant pay a $500 fine and spend up to 60 days in jail….the maximum sentence.

N'est-ce pas vrai?

I do believe that ‘we the people’ have a right to ask what ordinance number or to see the ordinance.

The judge should throw the case out on the basis that you can't charge someone just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce.

The cops should know their ordinances before they enforce them. Particularly this officer who was assigned specifically to stop people from building big sand castles.

I also think that the beach rules should be prominently posted or judges should be pretty lenient. The public should see a big sign or receive a handout telling them specifically what they can and can't do on the beach.

Chicken shit tactics by the cops. The judge should not reward their laziness and ignorance of the ordinances they are empowered to enforce with guns and violence (if needed).

They also prohibit glass containers on the beach. Do you object to that also?

No, I would agree that prohibition is reasonable. Holes, however, if made in reach of high tide are filled in by the wave action. And of course, high tides are no more than 12 hours away. In the present case, it seems from the photo the sand castle construction was specifically located at the water's edge for the express purpose of challenging the forces of nature to take it down, and because of the police interference, we will never know if the sand castle would have survived.

How do you know she didn't do that? I'm saying she could have written a ticket costing him $500 and up to 60 days in jail.

A punishment you would find reasonable, I'm sure.

99.99% of good citizens, realizing they were given a break, would fill in the hole and be done with it. This jagoff refused to do so.

....until he was shown the ordinance. And whether the hole was actually a violation was even in question.

At that point, I would have written the ticket for the full amount and let him plead his case with the judge. I'm not going to stand there and argue with some asshole after I was nice enough to offer him a way out.

Yes, I'm sure you would have. Marring the reputation of the city you'd work and harming it's economy by dissuading visitors from coming to the beach city is what you consider smart policing.

"and harming it's economy by dissuading visitors from coming to the beach city"

Nah. Just dissuading this jerk.

I do believe that ‘we the people’ have a right to ask what ordinance number or to see the ordinance.

The judge should throw the case out on the basis that you can't charge someone just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce.

AHEM …

But wait, show me exactly where you read that Bryant Rylee …

… was charged just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce?

But wait, show me exactly where you read that Bryant Rylee …

… was charged just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce?

Based on this from the article:

It seems pretty obvious that she escalated and he got the ticket for insisting on knowing the ordinance. And she called backup and stalled for a while until someone figured out which ordinance they were trying to enforce. Then they wrote the ticket.

But first he was offered the chance just to fill in the hole even though he was no less guilty of an ordinance infraction whether he filled the hole in or not.

I also think that the beach rules should be prominently posted …

And what evidence do you have to present that will show the Beach Rules were not propminently posted?

But wait, show me exactly where you read that Bryant Rylee was charged just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce?

Based on this from the article …

The article in no way shows that that as factual.

You even said…”It seems pretty obvious …”

What you are attempting to do, is pass off what “seems pretty obvious” to you….must be accepted as “factual reality” to all others.

Stop trying to do that….please.

And what evidence do you have to present that will show the Beach Rules were not propminently posted?

How dull your life must be to care so much over this minor incident.

The fine officer didn't even shoot bother the guy's kid or his dog. I'm not sure how this even rated a headline at the Free Thought Project.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non-national news story.

"Particularly this officer who was assigned specifically to stop people from building big sand castles."

You shouldn't believe every headline you read. He wasn't ticketed for building a big sand castle. He was ticketed for digging a big hole.

"The judge should throw the case out on the basis that you can't charge someone just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce."

He was charged for violating the ordinance. However, the cop was willing to simply let him off with a warning if he filled in the hole. He refused. So she wrote the ticket.

"It seems pretty obvious that she escalated and he got the ticket for insisting on knowing the ordinance."

No. She de-escalated by offering to give him a warning instead of a ticket -- if he filled in the hole. He refused, escalating the situation to a ticket.

"But first he was offered the chance just to fill in the hole even though he was no less guilty of an ordinance infraction whether he filled the hole in or not."

Correct. His guilt was never in question. Whether or not he was to be punished was. Had he filled in the hole, he would not have been. He chose his fate.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non-national news story.

Code for: You guys are correct.

"Attention: MISTERWHITE. Have you seen any such ridiculous charge being made against Bryant Rylee?"

According to the headline, he was threatened with jail for building a sand castle. How's that for a ridiculous charge?

"Code for: You guys are correct."

Yep. Like when the MSM made a big deal about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration using photos taken hours before the event. They went on and on and on.

Then when Trump showed the photos during the inauguration proving that he was right, the MSM responded by saying, "Hey. Why are you so obsessed about this?"

I also think that the beach rules should be prominently posted …

I cannot show you an example from the Panama City Beach, but posted below is a notice from Orange Beach, Alabama….just across the state line from the beaches in Florida.

You will note in the “DO NOT” section of the Beach Notice, it specifically states …

Dig large holes on the beach or have steel shovels.

We're proud you're considering visiting the World's Most Beautiful Beaches. In order to maintain public safety during spring break, we will be STRICTLY enforcing the following ordinances. -Chief Drew Whitman

- Drinking alcoholic beverages on the sandy beach is prohibited during the month of March.
- Possession and consumption of alcohol is prohibited in the commercial parking lots.
- All alcohol sales end at 2 a.m. throughout the entire month of March.
- Parking in a closed business' parking lot is prohibited.
- Overnight scooter rental is not permitted.
- It is illegal to climb, jump from or throw things from balconies.
- Parking is prohibited on unmarked or unpaved portions of the road after dark.
- Metal shovels are not permitted on the beach, and any holes dug in the sand not be deeper than two feet.

Violation of these laws will result in;
- Arrest and at least a night in the county jail
- A criminal record that will follow you past your spring break
- Up to a $500 fine or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed 60 days.

"Code for: You guys are correct."

Yep. Like when the MSM made a big deal about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration using photos taken hours before the event. They went on and on and on.

Then when Trump showed the photos during the inauguration proving that he was right, the MSM responded by saying, "Hey. Why are you so obsessed about this?"

Yea, always the same. They will fight tooth and nail to their last breath to spin, duck and dodge everything and anything in order to promote their isolated opinion of what is right and wrong….while they absolutely refuse to ever admit the fact that they are/were wrong.

During the spring breaks at Panama City Beach, there have been numerous murders, rapes and drug/alcohol abuse arrests. Just a quick Internet search showed:

Panama City Spring Break shooter sentenced to seven life sentences - Source.

Third person arrested in alleged spring break gang rape on crowded Panama City Beach - Source.

Spring Break rapists get 10 years in prison - Source.

Code for: You guys are correct.

Code for: you're idiots to worry over this on a fine spring day.

Code for: You guys are correct.

Code for: you're idiots to worry over this on a fine spring day.

Weather has nothing to do with being correct ...

Besides, it beats the Hell out of discussing those Freedom Caucus assholes....Which I will do, if I must to keep setting you straight.

and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA

Part of the problem is that there is entirely too much fun in this country.

We need to redefine the parameters of what is considered "fun" and thus provide limits to unsociable behavior.

Then perhaps careless parents would be more likely rein in the behavior of their undisciplined offspring and so prevent them from creating hazards to life and limb for beachgoers on our national shores.

Time for some sanity.

Besides, it beats the Hell out of discussing those Freedom Caucus assholes...

After you posted 25 articles about them, I just assumed you wanted ongoing non-stop coverage of them. I was only trying to please you.

What an ingrate.

I just followed your lead....for once.

You did not say anything about all other times …

After you posted 25 articles about them, I just assumed you wanted ongoing non-stop coverage of them.

Hey, when it's not the Freedom Caucus, it's the Libertarians!

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole, and injure myself on a metal tool, who do I sue -- him or the city?

You would sue the city, because they have a legal obligation (not so much as moral) to prevent accidents like this from happening. Unlike Malibu Beach, Ca, this is not a private beach as it belongs to the visitors to enjoy. You could also join the individual as well if you chose to and sue both parties for comparative damages (depending on who was more at fault; the one with the metal shovel 40% and the city 60% for their failure to provide public notice). Also attach compensatory damage for seeking declaratory relief.

Unlike Malibu Beach, Ca, this is not a private beach as it belongs to the visitors to enjoy.

I thought you might want to know that the area about which you speak in Malibu is called “billionaire’s Beach” and it is not a “private beach”…. there is public access.

There is no such animal as a “private beach” in California.

In California, the area between the water line and the mean high tide line is public land by law. To put it simply, wet sand means public beach.

In theory, anyone could walk the length of California's coast -- some 1,100 miles -- and never set foot on private property.

… and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA

Part of the problem is that there is entirely too much fun in this country.

Then perhaps careless parents would be more likely rein in the behavior of their undisciplined offspring and so prevent them from creating hazards to life and limb for beachgoers on our national shores.

Time for some sanity.

We need to redefine the parameters of what is considered "fun" and thus provide limits to unsociable behavior.

Why are making yourself the sole arbiter of what parents should be allowed to do with their kids, when and where?

Below is the scene referred to in the article.

Your holier-than-though, self-righteousness is growing tiresome.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non-national news story

:)

I lived next to you, I would play my music at maximum just to show you what it's like to live under your own philosophy.

Except that I don't blare my music at 3am.

Miss White would divorce you.

I'd simply call the friendly police and they would come and shoot you. Then there would be some discussion in cyberspace about what a dumb ass you were and you deserved it.

…. and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA.

Furthermore, digging holes in the sand “is not normal and acceptable in the USA for the purposes of beach fun” when a teenager dies after being trapped in sand hole he dug at the beach.

An Oklahoma teenager has died after a sand tunnel he was digging at a Florida beach [Panama City Beach] collapsed on him, KOTV 5 in Tulsa reports. The report says 17- year-old Travor Brown of Broken Arrow, Okla. was found Wednesday (June 8, 2016) trapped in a hole he had been digging into sand bank on Panama City Beach. Emergency responders were unable to revive the boy and he was transported to an area hospital in critical condition. A family friend told KOTV 6 Brown's mother made the decision to take Brown off life support and "let him go home to Jesus."

Now perhaps you want to take the liberal stance that would mandate restrictions in beach use that would help ensure that stupid people don't get hurt.

I will strongly support what Panama City Beach Police Chief Drew Whitman said:

"The rule was put in place because a couple of years ago, during Spring Break, we were having college kids dig holes that were probably larger than my desk, where they could play beer pong, we had some sexual assaults down there, we enacted where they couldn't take full size shovels down there, that's what the ordinance states, because kids were using them as weapons, fighting other kids." ¹

A young woman was watching a video on the news when she discovered a nightmare scenario: She may have been drugged and gang-raped on a crowded Florida beach in broad daylight, as bystanders watched.

It's not the first time this has happened to a young woman in Panama City Beach, authorities say. The woman's face can't be seen in the video, and parts of it were blurred. But she recognized her tattoos and contacted authorities.

Four young men were involved in the assault, authorities say. Two have been arrested and an arrest warrant has been issued for a third suspect, who federal marshals are trying to track down, said Bay County Sheriff Frank McKeithen. Investigators are also hoping to talk with a fourth person who is a possible witness.

Within feet of where the attack was happening, "There's hundreds, hundreds of people standing there -- watching, looking, seeing, hearing what's going on," McKeithen said.

"And yet our culture and our society and our young people have got to the point where obviously this is acceptable somewhere. I will tell you it is not acceptable in Bay County."

Ryan Calhoun, left, and Delonte Martistee were arrested in connection with an alleged gang rape in Panama City, Florida.

[….]

The video shows the suspects pushing the victim's hand aside and holding her legs down, Corley said.

"You can see in the video there are people two feet away. They were assaulting her and we believe the people around her knew she was being assaulted."

The suspects can be heard commenting about what they are doing to her, Corley said.

Authorities have three sworn statements from witnesses stating that the assault happened, Corley said.

[….]

'This is not the first time.

While the video is "one of the most disgusting, repulsive, sickening things that I've seen this year on Panama City Beach," it's not an isolated incident, said McKeithen.

"This is not the first video we've recovered. It's not the second video. It's not the third video. There's a number of videos we've recovered with things similar to this, and I can only imagine how many things we haven't recovered."

Corley said that through social media, "we have been able to find video of girls, incoherent and passed out, and almost like they are drugged, being assaulted on the beaches of Panama City in front of a bunch of people standing around." There's a major problem investigators are dealing with, McKeithen said: Spring break has gotten out of control. About 100,000 spring break revelers come to the beach community every year. This year, the Bay County Sheriff's Office made more than 1,000 arrests for various crimes -- about triple the number of arrests made in the same period last year.

McKeithen said he is being more and more aggressive in trying to stop the assaults.

"I have asked for help and I have asked for changes" for more than two years, he said. "People talk, and people promise, and nothing gets done."

A recent county ordinance stated that "the overpopulation of College spring Break and the violence and disrespect for law and order which now are accompanying College Spring Break have overwhelmed the valiant efforts of law enforcement to protect the community and the spring breakers themselves," and that additional restrictions were needed immediately "to help address the dangers being observed."

[….]

From my post above …

Within feet of where the [rape] attack was happening, "There's hundreds, hundreds of people standing there -- watching, looking, seeing, hearing what's going on," McKeithen said.

"And yet our culture and our society and our young people have got to the point where obviously this is acceptable somewhere.”

Please don’t ever tell me again that I was wrong when I said that I lived during The Greatest Generation.

I'm going to Panama City beach this summer. Going to be fun.

It has been said by many, you will find the most beautiful beaches in the world there….westward from Panama City Beach through Fort Walton and over to Pensacola.

Having grown up in a small farming community some miles North of there, I agree with those who made the comments about the beauty, since I had the occasion to spend lots of time on the beach at Panama City Beach. Also, our Summer 4-H Club camp was not too far away from there.

During week days, it was not uncommon to stand on the beach and not see anyone when looking either to the East or the West. The big traffic [big for that period] was only on weekends.

Y'all enjoy your stay there, ya hear….I just couldn’t pass that up.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non- national news story

:)

Yea...

But every point I made was a valid one ...

"This dude would lose in court."

Which it where it should be settled.

Within feet of where the [rape] attack was happening, "There's hundreds, hundreds of people standing there -- watching, looking, seeing, hearing what's going on," McKeithen said.

"And yet our culture and our society and our young people have got to the point where obviously this is acceptable somewhere.”

Yet you guys have wasted all these posts ranting over some crappy trench that is one foot deep on this beach instead of the rampant crime by hordes of outsiders committed every year there. People go there from around the country for the criminal mob activity, much as they once went to Mardi Gras for the same thing.

This is you generation, TC, not mine ...

What, you think I am a millennial? Wrong again. And you can't insult my own generation much more than I already do.

Please don’t ever tell me again that I was wrong when I said that I lived during The Greatest Generation.

You weren't even out of high school during WW II (unless you've been lying to us).

So you were part of the So-So Generation that lost the Korean War and the Vietnam War.

Stop trying to steal the glory (such as it is) of the WW II generation. You aren't one of them. You're just a wannabe.

I'm going to Panama City beach this summer. Going to be fun.

For God's sake, don't dig a dinky hole in the sand with a metal hand shovel or Gatlin and misterwhite will be calling for your arrest and execution.

Hey, when it's not the Freedom Caucus, it's the Libertarians!

But posting an article about Justin Amash who is a libertarian and in the Freedom Caucus and is an Arab congresscritter is like winning the Triple Crown.

    ; )

But posting an article about Justin Amash who is a libertarian and in the Freedom Caucus and is an Arab congresscritter is like winning the Triple Crown.

Disturbing images come to mind about how Gatlin would celebrate.

Ah ha … The Panama City Beach Spring Break Rules Notice:

. . . We're proud you're considering visiting the World's Most Beautiful Beaches. In order to maintain public safety during spring break, we will be STRICTLY enforcing the following ordinances. -Chief Drew Whitman

Which does imply that, as a matter of policy, that the local PD does not strictly enforce those ordinances at other times of the year.

"Which does imply that ... the local PD does not strictly enforce those ordinances at other times of the year."

This is insane….spring break at Panama City Beach:

Looks like fun to me and my kind of crowd.

Part of the problem is that there is entirely too much fun in this country.

Too much fun? We are the country that is the most overtaxed and overworked nation than any other country in this world. We shell out much of our income taxes which go to USAID through the IRS and it goes to feed foreign countries. Betcha' didn't even know that. So when it comes to Spring Break, you damn right those kids are gonna party like there is no tomorrow and oggle gorgeous babes.

Nevertheless, if words have meaning, then the police chief was telling us that some of the listed ordinances are not enforced rigorously except during spring break with its huge crowds.

Which is an entirely valid observation and counterpoint on this stupendously irrelevant non-news steaming turd of a thread.

"Nevertheless, if words have meaning, then the police chief was telling us that some of the listed ordinances are not enforced rigorously except during spring break with its huge crowds."

But he never said they weren't enforced at all. Just not as rigorously.

Does that make you uncomfortable? Would you rather he enforce the law rigorously year round?

Which does imply that, as a matter of policy, that the local PD does not strictly enforce those ordinances at other times of the year.

There you go ….

Hey, what are you doing on this thread anyway?

Aren’t you the one who said:

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non- national news story.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/competent-authority-assistance

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/tax-treaties

But he never said they weren't enforced at all. Just not as rigorously.

Does that make you uncomfortable? Would you rather he enforce the law rigorously year round?

Some posters on this thread seemed to be trying to portray this as a strictly enforced ordinance year-round despite the fact that the officer who was on patrol for exactly these kinds of infractions was so unfamiliar with enforcing them that it took her and several backup units of police to finally know the correct statute number to cite if they were to write a ticket for the infraction. Which means that the cops themselves are extremely unfamiliar with writing tickets for that infraction for beach holes (which was not violated) and the "metal implement" infraction.

I suppose the perp should be happy that the cops didn't just shoot his dog and his kid.

Which as a matter of policy does imply, or mean, that during other times of the year there are no gang rapes, no murders, no people jumping off balconies and no folks digging 10-foot diameter holes 4-feet deep where rapes occur….so there are no violations of these ordinances to be strictly enforced.

I don't even get your point. I doubt anyone else does either.

Hey, what are you doing on this thread anyway?

It seems I've been sucked into the vortices of a Complete Bullshit Thread.

"Some posters on this thread seemed to be trying to portray this as a strictly enforced ordinance year-round ..."

Whoa! Who? According to the article the officer said she'd let him off with a warning. That's not strict enforcement. Why would anyone think this ordinance was strictly enforced?

You're just making shit up again.

"I suppose the perp should be happy that the cops didn't just shoot his dog and his kid."

And yet he never thanked the cops for not shooting his dog and his kid. What a jerk.

Reading this thread is likely to make LF readers more stupid than before they read it. It sucks your brain slowly, a Dracula of a soul-sucking thread.

Delete it now. Before someone gets hurt.

Some posters on this thread seemed to be trying to portray this as a strictly enforced ordinance year-round despite the fact that the officer who was on patrol for exactly these kinds of infractions was so unfamiliar with enforcing them that it took her and several backup units of police to finally know the correct statute number to cite if they were to write a ticket for the infraction. Which means that the cops themselves are extremely unfamiliar with writing tickets for that infraction for beach holes (which was not violated) and the "metal implement" infraction.

Did you see Gatlin's post #71 where there does exist a public notice on that beach? The city is supposed to work with local authorities to impose such ordinances as needed on public places so as to provide legal notice to the public to avoid liability. Local authorities are not only supposed to be informed about them but also to enforce them to avoid liability not just in their official capacities but also as personal.

Did you see Gatlin's post #71 where there does exist a public notice on that beach?

In #71, those were rules for an entirely different beach (as Gatlin noted).

In #72, Gatlin posted some recent actual published (or posted) rules from the same Panama City beach:

Keep in mind, they were trying to threaten someone with a $500 fine. But he hadn't broken that ordinance because his hole was only a 1' deep hole and the ordinance only fines those who have dug a 2' hole. So, after threatening and summoning backup units, they finally got a $25 fine out of him. That was a piss-poor use of the time of the 5 officers involved for a couple of hours. If that's all that that PD has to do with their time, they need to fire some unneeded cops.

Maybe this thread should just be deleted as Too Silly.

Reading this thread is likely to make LF readers more stupid than before they read it. It sucks your brain slowly, a Dracula of a soul-sucking thread.

Delete it now. Before someone gets hurt.

This is without question the most asinine post you have ever made.

And the good Lord knows….you have made many before.

Just pray tell, specifically who is going to get hurt?

Maybe only you….with your overly sensitive feelings and you may start bawling like a little baby.

Crying your heart out the same way your libertarian asshole buddy, Amash, did when he missed his first vote in the House and openly cried like a wussie in front of all his fellow Congressmen.

My goodness, TC, what is your generation coming to?

Your weak ass generation is nothing but a bunch of whining cry babies.

What are you to do …

     [Cue scene from the movie Top Gun here].

This is without question the most asinine post you have ever made.

It's not even a contender.

But he hadn't broken that ordinance …

From the ordinance notice….read this carefully.

Metal shovels are not permitted on the beach…

What is there that you don’t understand about that breaking the ordinance?

And BTW, you are correct….in that Chief Drew Whitman didn’t STICTLY enforce the ordinance year round.

Instead of his officer strictly following the rules year round, whereby the asshole minister would have seen that a ….

Violation of these laws will result in;
- Arrest and at least a night in the county jail
- A criminal record that will follow you past your spring break
- Up to a

The minister asshole was so lucky …

You can stop with your libertarian SPIN anytime you start to feel dizzy …

Wait, you libertarians are always dizzy …

This is without question the most asinine post you have ever made.

It's not even a contender.

Okay....so you have made more asinine posts than this.

I accept your concession with all humility.

Of course, this is precisely why I was always so deservedly your Literary Hero.

If that's all that that PD has to do with their time, they need to fire some unneeded cops.

This is not all they needed to do.

The PCB police can multi task when dealing with crime.

In addition to handling this minister asshole….the PCB police arrested “hundreds” of violators.
[No specific number has been released yet, only that generality]

Furthermore, the number of arrests were down this year….could be for various reasons, but most probably because of the new ordinance. One would objectively think so.

So, you see….that is not “all that the [PCB police] has to do with their time”….they did this and everything else they needed to do.

Again, crime was down this year….GREAT JOB, PCB Police Department!

But, you keep on spinning, TC….even thought it does no good.

You're just making shit up again.

TC ...

"This is without question the most asinine post you have ever made."

I don't think so. Let me check my various lists for Tooconservative: Stupid ... no ... Ignorant? ... no ... Dumb? ... no ... Ah. Here it is ... Asinine.

Whoo. It's a long list. And this latest post is ranking 26. So it's far from #1.

But hey. Let's give him some time. He'll get there.

asshole buddy

The most dangerous sand sculpture ever made.

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole, and injure myself on a metal tool, who do I sue -- him or the city?

Neither. You slink away in shame for being a dumbshit who doesn't watch where he's going.

In #72, Gatlin posted some recent actual published (or posted) rules from the same Panama City beach:

From what he recently posted in addition to the previous post #71, it looks like PCB Police made no exceptions to the rules especially during Spring Break. The rules stand. If you don't like those rules go to a different beach from a different county or city that is more lenient. I'd prefer to go to a different beach that is more tolerant than this. However, there has been a case where (I cannot remember where in the US) a beachgoer was digging so damn deep that the ground caved in and he fell in six feet and it took a firetruck crew, police and first responders to dig around him to get him out at he had buried himself alive. Amazingly though he survived. True story. I could be wrong but I think it occurred in Florida.

However, there has been a case where (I cannot remember where in the US) a beachgoer was digging so damn deep that the ground caved in and he fell in six feet and it took a firetruck crew, police and first responders to dig around him to get him out at he had buried himself alive. Amazingly though he survived. True story. I could be wrong but I think it occurred in Florida

...PCB Police made no exceptions to the rules especially during Spring Break. The rules stand. If you don't like those rules go to a different beach from a different county or city that is more lenient.

So all this fuss and this mindbogglingly stupid thread is about a guy getting a $25 ticket because his kid had a little metal hand shovel on the beach.

Much ado about nothing.

I assure you: this is not national news.

I can't believe people actually care about something this dumb.

In reference to my post #131 maybe after watching the above video, it might change your mind. All those people digging are beachgoers along with fire department and first responders; all trying to save this young man's life.

The sign plainly said "no metal shovels". If the guy was using a metal shovel he already violated the ordinance regardless of whether he was digging less than 2 feet.

I need to repeat that with emphasis …

The sign plainly said "no metal shovels". If the guy was using a metal shovel he already violated the ordinance regardless of whether he was digging less than 2 feet.

Alabama man's "metal shovel" on Panama City Beach Facebook post getting huge attention

[….]

The law banning metal tools on the beach says metal shovels, like the types sold in hardware stores, are not permitted on the beach. Digging holes deeper than two feet is also prohibited.

While Rylee's son wasn't digging a hole deeper than two feet, he did receive a $25 fine for using the metal tool.

Another source …

Bama Fan Fined $25 For Using Metal Shovel To Dig Holes For Sandcastle On Panama City Beach

Bama fan Bryant Rylee, a youth pastor, tangled (not really) with Panama City Beach cops last week after he was caught digging sandcastle holes with a metal shovel, which is a no-no on PCB after a 2015 ordinance preventing college kids from digging holes for what I assume were the sunken beer pong tables. Last week, one thing led to another and Rylee was fined $25 for his actions.

I have no idea why TC keeps up his mantra with the false narrative about the man being fined for digging a hole when he was definitely not fined for digging a hole. He was fined for using a metal shovel on the beach.

Well, I guess I do have good idea….TC’s extreme libertarianism causes him to be a contrarian firmly dedicated to opposing or rejecting any and all popular opinions, especially those supporting law enforcement; those going against his libertarian anarchist philosophy.

Maybe next time, the cops will find the courage to pull out their guns and shoot these scofflaw metal shovel maniacs.

You really should be ashamed of yourself, if that is what you must resort to.

You sound like Deckard….and that definitely is no compliment.

He resorts to the same type charge….each time he loses, and that is almost all the time.

I can't believe people actually care about something this dumb.

Be honest with yourself, at least once….admit that is true.

Try …

I only knew about the one that happened at Panama City Beach, the one I linked you to.

I'm starting to wonder if even an assassination of the Queen of England would get 130 comments here on LF.

Now you have resorted to groveling, acting in an abject manner showing great fear that you are completely without any reasonable ideas to support your position….a position that was tenuous from the start, with your first post on this thread.

I assure you: this is not national news.

Not everything must be national news to be of importance to some people. That statement shows evidence of your elitist mentality, something that keeps raising its ugly head during your discussion with us common folks.

Why don’t you just give it up. Say that you lost and your position to defend this guy ....but moreover, to castigate the police, was a wrong position to take.

Man up …

Confession is good for the soul …

Step in here, my son …

From my video, when I think about it now, I remember seeing it on The Weather Channel on matters concerning "What Would You Do in circumstances like this". They showed that Newport Beach video and how they managed to finally get the guy out alive. They dug around the hole area where he was buried and just kept digging as if they were working in a circumference-style distance all the way around the hole. That's how they managed to find the guy. It was unbelievable and great work from all who participated in that rescue effort. He's damn lucky to be alive.

... how they managed to finally get the guy out alive.

That WAS good news....he was lucky.

I want to tell you that I enjoy reading your posts and exchanging thoughts with you. We agree on some things and disagree on others. And this is good. Because after reading your posts, it looks to me like you are one of the few people who will consider both sides of a situation before forming your opinion and expressing it.

Above all, I cannot but help notice that you can, and you do, change your mind when you discover new and different information. Very few people on this forum ever do that. Stone is the only one who also does this, that comes to mind right now. It is a definitely a positive attribute for which you are to be complimented to possess. FWIT....I personally consider you a great asset to Stone’s forum. Keep up the good work …

I would obey the officer. Not worth the trouble. I just think it is a stupid law. The picture didn't look like it was anywhere near excessive.

Did you know they don't let you sleep on the beach at night either. I was at another beach in Florida. Daytona I think. Got up early at sunrise. The sun was up. So I put my beach blanket out laid down and closed my eyes. Some beach cop comes up and tells me I can't sleep on beach at night. The sun is already up. I know he thought I was there all night, but I wasn't, I just wanted to get there early and lay around with my eyes closed. I got up and went back to my room til piggy left. I told my wife what an asshole piggy was.

The picture didn't look like it was anywhere near excessive.

It was stated that the kid was 13-years old, as best I can remember. I could not find a body dimensions chart for 13-year old boys but I did find one for 15-year old boys. The knee height for 15-year boys, depending on their build, ranges from 14 3/8 to19 ½ inches. Since the kid was only 13-years old and definitely on the “porky” side, I would estimate that his knee height was around 12 to 13 inches.

So you are correct when you say the hole didn’t appear “anywhere near excessive”….and Bryant Rylee was correct when he said the hole was a foot deep.

Ah, but you, and everyone, has to watch ole Bryant Rylee, he operates using the typical Deckard and Tooconservative modus operandi. In that, they all will try to lead you down a deceptive path with an attempt to have you arrive at the same conclusion they did. Sneaky….Sneaky. So, it was to that end that Bryant Rylee made his post on face book “all about the depth of the hole” and the “sand castle”….when the issue was never about that.

For evidence, “let’s go to the video” as Warner Wolf would say. The headline on the video from the local TV news and the headline for the local newspaper both stated the $25 citation was given for having the metal shovel on the beach….not the hole depth. But how much sympathy was Bryant Rylee going to get if he posted that he had been “fined $25 for having a metal shovel on the beach?”

None….of course not.

So, operating under the Deckard and Tooconservative Libertarian Community Organizer Rules for Dissention….Bryant went the “little boy’s sand castle hole sympathy” route. And he made it all about that. Which everyone bought into….except “old Greatest Generation” Moi. [That’s French, ya know. I was stationed outside of Paris for 6 months and I still like to through that word around when I get a chance to….and I just had that chance].

I would obey the officer. Not worth the trouble. I just think it is a stupid law.

You have a right to think it is a stupid law. But the City Council had the right to make that law based on incidents of rape and other grossly nefarious law violations occurring in those holes that measured “10 feet in diameter and 4 feet deep.” Combine that with the fact that actual melees broke out where people were fighting like gladitors swinging metal shovels and getting severely injured. So, the City Council decided “enough was enough” and issued the ordinance with the changes in 2015.

Since that time, incidents and arrests have decreased each year….according to local news reports.

"You slink away in shame for being a dumbshit who doesn't watch where he's going."

Ah! So it's my fault.

I suppose it's also my fault if I step on a piece of broken glass because you'd also permit glass bottles on the beach?

I admit I do not always agree with you or on many issues with many posters here but I do try to see both sides of the issue while remain unbiased and with a reasoned point of view.