"There is a true right and a true wrong and it is in our conscience."

Right. So collectively we get together and vote on an issue based on our conscience. Those who believe the law is moral and just vote in favor. Those who believe the law is stupid and immoral vote against it.

The we count the votes. Majority wins.

No? Not a good system? Then what do you propose, Mein Fuhrer?

Aren't you also free to ignore moral laws?

Of course you are. But you would be acting immorally. So it is your duty to obey moral laws. Not that any of us always do what is our "moral duty" I'm talking theoretically.

If you read what I said there are consequences for breaking immoral laws. There obviously are also consequences for breaking immoral laws.

"For example some asshole coming down the beach and harassing people for playing in the sand."

That should read: A law enforcement officer coming down the beach and enforcing city ordinances. You don't think city ordinances should be enforced?

How about this? If the law says to do something you consider immoral you are free to change it.

You use the word consider. That makes me think you don't believe in absolute morals.

I do. I know them. I don't always follow them but I know them.

I know what your problem is with my thinking. There are to many stupid immoral people in the world who wouldn't lie and say they were following what is right. Well i'm not talking about them. I'm talking about me. I know right and wrong.

Assuming, of course, you can find enough people with your sense of morality.

There you go again "sense".

There is moral and immoral. Not a sense of moral and a sense of immoral.

"So it is your duty to obey moral laws."

Unless I think they're immoral.

I think I should be able to play my music as loud as I want, even if it keeps you awake all night.

Isn't that the way we so things around here?

No. That is not the way it works. It is more random and inconsistent. I might be pissed one day because someone said something that made me. Or I might think someone is an asshole. They don't get treated the same as someone that I like. That's just the way it is. Truth.

"So it is your duty to obey moral laws." Unless I think they're immoral.

Not think, know.

I think I should be able to play my music as loud as I want, even if it keeps you awake all night.

Well you're a liar too then. Because you don't really think that. You really believe the opposite. So do I. So I wouldn't do it. Neither would you.

You had to lie to try to make your point and all you did is help prove mine.

Misterwhite- "I think I should be able to play my music as loud as I want, even if it keeps you awake all night." is a flat out lie. That is not moral it is immoral.

You don't think city ordinances should be enforced?

No….no….no….misterwhite!

Wait, you simply don’t understand what went on here.

Please….let me try to help you understand and carefully consider the facts.

First of all, Bryant Rylee is from Moundville, Alabama.

Yep, Moundville really is the name of the town.

And in Moundville, it is Bryant Rylee’s duty to serve as a …

… wait for it …

… wait for it just a bit longer for it …

It is Bryant Rylee’s most responsible duty to:
      ”serve as a youth minister for the children of Moundville.”

Because in one article, it was explicatively pointed out that Bryant is …

… a devout Christian, [who] says he supports law enforcement and prays “daily for their protection.”

Maybe you can find it in your heart to somehow cut him a little slack….just a a tiny bit, maybe.

For, you see …

This was the weekend spring break at Panama City Beach and what else should youth minister from Moundville be doing on a Sunday morning…except ministering to the children and teaching them by his shining example as a “devout Christian who prays daily for the protection of all law enforcement officers” the correct way to interact properly and safely with law enforcement.

Ole Bryant was just “youth ministering” on this particular Sunday morning…. like a good old youth minister from Moundville, Alabama, should be doing.

There you go …

"Because you don't really think that. You really believe the opposite."

You're right. I do. But if I lived next to you, I would play my music at maximum just to show you what it's like to live under your own philosophy.

I make my own rules. I play my music loud at 3:00 AM. I think it's "moral" to do so, and I don't care what YOU think.

First of all, everyone knows….or should know….after all these years, what goes on at Panama City Beach during spring break.

Therefore, this begs the attention of Bryant …

Why any responsibly intelligent parent would ever take a minor to Panama City Beach during spring break is beyond comprehension by any normal reasoning person.

"The [ordinance] was put in place because a couple of years ago, during Spring Break, we were having college kids dig holes that were probably larger than my desk, where they could play beer pong, we had some sexual assaults down there, we enacted where they couldn't take full size shovels down there, that's what the ordinance states, because kids were using them as weapons, fighting other kids," Panama City Beach Police Chief Drew Whitman said. ¹

Probably not to libertarians, anarchists and cop-haters …

Can I get an "Amen"?

You most certainly do….and a big AMEN at that …

Cue, Sir Sidney Poitier …

Bryant refused and insisted to see a copy of the ordinance that required him to do this.

However, again …

Bryant refused and insisted on paying a fine if he could at least see the ordinance that declared his son’s activities to be illegal. ²

So, WTF, is Bryant’s beef?

Bryant got what he wanted and he did what he said he would do.

So what we have here folks with Bryant is NOT a …

It is quite obvious that Bryant communicated his desires and intentions very clearly to the officer.

Finally, Bryant posted on his social media account that …

I do believe that ‘we the people’ have a right to ask what ordinance number or to see the ordinance.

“We the Police” did not in any way deny Bryant that right….they graciously complied with his insistent request.

So what we now have here, folks….is a showing that Bryant got his 15 minutes of fame and all the libertarians, anarchists and cop-haters, who wanted to do so, got the opportunity to once again bash law enforcement..

Hallelujah….and everyone should now be happy.

Aije raison?

I’d say the asshole, Bryant, is lucky that he dealt with some really benevolent cops.

For, no doubt some officers would have taken action to see Bryant pay a $500 fine and spend up to 60 days in jail….the maximum sentence.

N'est-ce pas vrai?

I do believe that ‘we the people’ have a right to ask what ordinance number or to see the ordinance.

The judge should throw the case out on the basis that you can't charge someone just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce.

The cops should know their ordinances before they enforce them. Particularly this officer who was assigned specifically to stop people from building big sand castles.

I also think that the beach rules should be prominently posted or judges should be pretty lenient. The public should see a big sign or receive a handout telling them specifically what they can and can't do on the beach.

Chicken shit tactics by the cops. The judge should not reward their laziness and ignorance of the ordinances they are empowered to enforce with guns and violence (if needed).

They also prohibit glass containers on the beach. Do you object to that also?

No, I would agree that prohibition is reasonable. Holes, however, if made in reach of high tide are filled in by the wave action. And of course, high tides are no more than 12 hours away. In the present case, it seems from the photo the sand castle construction was specifically located at the water's edge for the express purpose of challenging the forces of nature to take it down, and because of the police interference, we will never know if the sand castle would have survived.

How do you know she didn't do that? I'm saying she could have written a ticket costing him $500 and up to 60 days in jail.

A punishment you would find reasonable, I'm sure.

99.99% of good citizens, realizing they were given a break, would fill in the hole and be done with it. This jagoff refused to do so.

....until he was shown the ordinance. And whether the hole was actually a violation was even in question.

At that point, I would have written the ticket for the full amount and let him plead his case with the judge. I'm not going to stand there and argue with some asshole after I was nice enough to offer him a way out.

Yes, I'm sure you would have. Marring the reputation of the city you'd work and harming it's economy by dissuading visitors from coming to the beach city is what you consider smart policing.

"and harming it's economy by dissuading visitors from coming to the beach city"

Nah. Just dissuading this jerk.

I do believe that ‘we the people’ have a right to ask what ordinance number or to see the ordinance.

The judge should throw the case out on the basis that you can't charge someone just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce.

AHEM …

But wait, show me exactly where you read that Bryant Rylee …

… was charged just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce?

But wait, show me exactly where you read that Bryant Rylee …

… was charged just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce?

Based on this from the article:

It seems pretty obvious that she escalated and he got the ticket for insisting on knowing the ordinance. And she called backup and stalled for a while until someone figured out which ordinance they were trying to enforce. Then they wrote the ticket.

But first he was offered the chance just to fill in the hole even though he was no less guilty of an ordinance infraction whether he filled the hole in or not.

I also think that the beach rules should be prominently posted …

And what evidence do you have to present that will show the Beach Rules were not propminently posted?

But wait, show me exactly where you read that Bryant Rylee was charged just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce?

Based on this from the article …

The article in no way shows that that as factual.

You even said…”It seems pretty obvious …”

What you are attempting to do, is pass off what “seems pretty obvious” to you….must be accepted as “factual reality” to all others.

Stop trying to do that….please.

And what evidence do you have to present that will show the Beach Rules were not propminently posted?

How dull your life must be to care so much over this minor incident.

The fine officer didn't even shoot bother the guy's kid or his dog. I'm not sure how this even rated a headline at the Free Thought Project.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non-national news story.

"Particularly this officer who was assigned specifically to stop people from building big sand castles."

You shouldn't believe every headline you read. He wasn't ticketed for building a big sand castle. He was ticketed for digging a big hole.

"The judge should throw the case out on the basis that you can't charge someone just as punishment for asking what statute or ordinance they are trying to enforce."

He was charged for violating the ordinance. However, the cop was willing to simply let him off with a warning if he filled in the hole. He refused. So she wrote the ticket.

"It seems pretty obvious that she escalated and he got the ticket for insisting on knowing the ordinance."

No. She de-escalated by offering to give him a warning instead of a ticket -- if he filled in the hole. He refused, escalating the situation to a ticket.

"But first he was offered the chance just to fill in the hole even though he was no less guilty of an ordinance infraction whether he filled the hole in or not."

Correct. His guilt was never in question. Whether or not he was to be punished was. Had he filled in the hole, he would not have been. He chose his fate.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non-national news story.

Code for: You guys are correct.

"Attention: MISTERWHITE. Have you seen any such ridiculous charge being made against Bryant Rylee?"

According to the headline, he was threatened with jail for building a sand castle. How's that for a ridiculous charge?

"Code for: You guys are correct."

Yep. Like when the MSM made a big deal about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration using photos taken hours before the event. They went on and on and on.

Then when Trump showed the photos during the inauguration proving that he was right, the MSM responded by saying, "Hey. Why are you so obsessed about this?"

I also think that the beach rules should be prominently posted …

I cannot show you an example from the Panama City Beach, but posted below is a notice from Orange Beach, Alabama….just across the state line from the beaches in Florida.

You will note in the “DO NOT” section of the Beach Notice, it specifically states …

Dig large holes on the beach or have steel shovels.

We're proud you're considering visiting the World's Most Beautiful Beaches. In order to maintain public safety during spring break, we will be STRICTLY enforcing the following ordinances. -Chief Drew Whitman

- Drinking alcoholic beverages on the sandy beach is prohibited during the month of March.
- Possession and consumption of alcohol is prohibited in the commercial parking lots.
- All alcohol sales end at 2 a.m. throughout the entire month of March.
- Parking in a closed business' parking lot is prohibited.
- Overnight scooter rental is not permitted.
- It is illegal to climb, jump from or throw things from balconies.
- Parking is prohibited on unmarked or unpaved portions of the road after dark.
- Metal shovels are not permitted on the beach, and any holes dug in the sand not be deeper than two feet.

Violation of these laws will result in;
- Arrest and at least a night in the county jail
- A criminal record that will follow you past your spring break
- Up to a $500 fine or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed 60 days.

"Code for: You guys are correct."

Yep. Like when the MSM made a big deal about the crowd size at Trump's inauguration using photos taken hours before the event. They went on and on and on.

Then when Trump showed the photos during the inauguration proving that he was right, the MSM responded by saying, "Hey. Why are you so obsessed about this?"

Yea, always the same. They will fight tooth and nail to their last breath to spin, duck and dodge everything and anything in order to promote their isolated opinion of what is right and wrong….while they absolutely refuse to ever admit the fact that they are/were wrong.

During the spring breaks at Panama City Beach, there have been numerous murders, rapes and drug/alcohol abuse arrests. Just a quick Internet search showed:

Panama City Spring Break shooter sentenced to seven life sentences - Source.

Third person arrested in alleged spring break gang rape on crowded Panama City Beach - Source.

Spring Break rapists get 10 years in prison - Source.

Code for: You guys are correct.

Code for: you're idiots to worry over this on a fine spring day.

Code for: You guys are correct.

Code for: you're idiots to worry over this on a fine spring day.

Weather has nothing to do with being correct ...

Besides, it beats the Hell out of discussing those Freedom Caucus assholes....Which I will do, if I must to keep setting you straight.

and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA

Part of the problem is that there is entirely too much fun in this country.

We need to redefine the parameters of what is considered "fun" and thus provide limits to unsociable behavior.

Then perhaps careless parents would be more likely rein in the behavior of their undisciplined offspring and so prevent them from creating hazards to life and limb for beachgoers on our national shores.

Time for some sanity.

Besides, it beats the Hell out of discussing those Freedom Caucus assholes...

After you posted 25 articles about them, I just assumed you wanted ongoing non-stop coverage of them. I was only trying to please you.

What an ingrate.

I just followed your lead....for once.

You did not say anything about all other times …

After you posted 25 articles about them, I just assumed you wanted ongoing non-stop coverage of them.

Hey, when it's not the Freedom Caucus, it's the Libertarians!

So if I run along the public beach, fall in his hole, and injure myself on a metal tool, who do I sue -- him or the city?

You would sue the city, because they have a legal obligation (not so much as moral) to prevent accidents like this from happening. Unlike Malibu Beach, Ca, this is not a private beach as it belongs to the visitors to enjoy. You could also join the individual as well if you chose to and sue both parties for comparative damages (depending on who was more at fault; the one with the metal shovel 40% and the city 60% for their failure to provide public notice). Also attach compensatory damage for seeking declaratory relief.

Unlike Malibu Beach, Ca, this is not a private beach as it belongs to the visitors to enjoy.

I thought you might want to know that the area about which you speak in Malibu is called “billionaire’s Beach” and it is not a “private beach”…. there is public access.

There is no such animal as a “private beach” in California.

In California, the area between the water line and the mean high tide line is public land by law. To put it simply, wet sand means public beach.

In theory, anyone could walk the length of California's coast -- some 1,100 miles -- and never set foot on private property.

… and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA

Part of the problem is that there is entirely too much fun in this country.

Then perhaps careless parents would be more likely rein in the behavior of their undisciplined offspring and so prevent them from creating hazards to life and limb for beachgoers on our national shores.

Time for some sanity.

We need to redefine the parameters of what is considered "fun" and thus provide limits to unsociable behavior.

Why are making yourself the sole arbiter of what parents should be allowed to do with their kids, when and where?

Below is the scene referred to in the article.

Your holier-than-though, self-righteousness is growing tiresome.

I'll let you guys obsess over this virtual non-event of a non-national news story

:)

I lived next to you, I would play my music at maximum just to show you what it's like to live under your own philosophy.

Except that I don't blare my music at 3am.

Miss White would divorce you.

I'd simply call the friendly police and they would come and shoot you. Then there would be some discussion in cyberspace about what a dumb ass you were and you deserved it.

…. and, yes, digging holes in the sand for purposes of beach fun is normal and acceptable in the USA.

Furthermore, digging holes in the sand “is not normal and acceptable in the USA for the purposes of beach fun” when a teenager dies after being trapped in sand hole he dug at the beach.

An Oklahoma teenager has died after a sand tunnel he was digging at a Florida beach [Panama City Beach] collapsed on him, KOTV 5 in Tulsa reports. The report says 17- year-old Travor Brown of Broken Arrow, Okla. was found Wednesday (June 8, 2016) trapped in a hole he had been digging into sand bank on Panama City Beach. Emergency responders were unable to revive the boy and he was transported to an area hospital in critical condition. A family friend told KOTV 6 Brown's mother made the decision to take Brown off life support and "let him go home to Jesus."

Now perhaps you want to take the liberal stance that would mandate restrictions in beach use that would help ensure that stupid people don't get hurt.

I will strongly support what Panama City Beach Police Chief Drew Whitman said:

"The rule was put in place because a couple of years ago, during Spring Break, we were having college kids dig holes that were probably larger than my desk, where they could play beer pong, we had some sexual assaults down there, we enacted where they couldn't take full size shovels down there, that's what the ordinance states, because kids were using them as weapons, fighting other kids." ¹

A young woman was watching a video on the news when she discovered a nightmare scenario: She may have been drugged and gang-raped on a crowded Florida beach in broad daylight, as bystanders watched.

It's not the first time this has happened to a young woman in Panama City Beach, authorities say. The woman's face can't be seen in the video, and parts of it were blurred. But she recognized her tattoos and contacted authorities.

Four young men were involved in the assault, authorities say. Two have been arrested and an arrest warrant has been issued for a third suspect, who federal marshals are trying to track down, said Bay County Sheriff Frank McKeithen. Investigators are also hoping to talk with a fourth person who is a possible witness.

Within feet of where the attack was happening, "There's hundreds, hundreds of people standing there -- watching, looking, seeing, hearing what's going on," McKeithen said.

"And yet our culture and our society and our young people have got to the point where obviously this is acceptable somewhere. I will tell you it is not acceptable in Bay County."

Ryan Calhoun, left, and Delonte Martistee were arrested in connection with an alleged gang rape in Panama City, Florida.

[….]

The video shows the suspects pushing the victim's hand aside and holding her legs down, Corley said.

"You can see in the video there are people two feet away. They were assaulting her and we believe the people around her knew she was being assaulted."

The suspects can be heard commenting about what they are doing to her, Corley said.

Authorities have three sworn statements from witnesses stating that the assault happened, Corley said.

[….]

'This is not the first time.

While the video is "one of the most disgusting, repulsive, sickening things that I've seen this year on Panama City Beach," it's not an isolated incident, said McKeithen.

"This is not the first video we've recovered. It's not the second video. It's not the third video. There's a number of videos we've recovered with things similar to this, and I can only imagine how many things we haven't recovered."

Corley said that through social media, "we have been able to find video of girls, incoherent and passed out, and almost like they are drugged, being assaulted on the beaches of Panama City in front of a bunch of people standing around." There's a major problem investigators are dealing with, McKeithen said: Spring break has gotten out of control. About 100,000 spring break revelers come to the beach community every year. This year, the Bay County Sheriff's Office made more than 1,000 arrests for various crimes -- about triple the number of arrests made in the same period last year.

McKeithen said he is being more and more aggressive in trying to stop the assaults.

"I have asked for help and I have asked for changes" for more than two years, he said. "People talk, and people promise, and nothing gets done."

A recent county ordinance stated that "the overpopulation of College spring Break and the violence and disrespect for law and order which now are accompanying College Spring Break have overwhelmed the valiant efforts of law enforcement to protect the community and the spring breakers themselves," and that additional restrictions were needed immediately "to help address the dangers being observed."

[….]

From my post above …

Within feet of where the [rape] attack was happening, "There's hundreds, hundreds of people standing there -- watching, looking, seeing, hearing what's going on," McKeithen said.

"And yet our culture and our society and our young people have got to the point where obviously this is acceptable somewhere.”

Please don’t ever tell me again that I was wrong when I said that I lived during The Greatest Generation.