Then these addled ninnies confuse themselves by having to recite this talking point over and over and then they end up blathering about letting the good become the enema of the perfect. Or some such crap. They're confused people, not very bright. And they're very very angry to be exposed for what they really are.

Easy. Mitch McConnell: suspend the filibuster rule and ram through all of the legislation in a Republican majority Senate. There. Done. No negotiation with Democrats at all. No ability to stop anything.

If the Republicans are right, their programs, fully enacted, will unleash great prosperity, and they'll never lose another election because they'll control the whole budget, everything.

Truth is, the bulk of Republicans are NOT on the side of the people. They are crony capitalists who want tax breaks for the rich and stockjobbing contracts that privatize the government on a for-profit basis for the well- connected.

There are more Republican legislators like that than there are Republican populists are true-blue conservatives. Unfortunately, sand is running through the hour glass. The GOP was elected on Trump's coattails. HE was elected to do things the bulk of the traditional GOP does not want. But they have to swallow their desires and follow him. Or they can resist, divide, fail, and be replaced by Democrats.

You can be sure that if the DEMOCRATS take back power, THEY will maintain party discipline, kill the filibuster and ram through their whole agenda.

Truth is, the bulk of Republicans are NOT on the side of the people.

Don't pretend the Dems are any better. They represent a lot of profiteers as well, probably more than the GOP does at present.

But Ryan refused to offer the House the same bill written by Tom Price. Because it was the RINOs who wouldn't vote for it again. The Freedom Caucus was ready before and is still ready to vote for the 2015 Price bill.

Don't pretend the Dems are any better.

Well, the Dems want single payer - that's better. Of course they want to use it to fund unlimited abortion too.

And the Dems want generous family leave. That's much better.

And the Dems don't keep trying to privatize Social Security, so they're better on that too.

On foreign policy they're equally incompetent as Republicans, and they both treat Israel better than they are willing to treat states of their own country, which is discouraging.

The Republicans could be better, but they just love money and power so very much they can't seem to accept that redistribution of SOME excess wealth is necessary to keep suffering down.

But Ryan refused to offer the House the same bill written by Tom Price. Because it was the RINOs who wouldn't vote for it again.

Those Republican house members who wouldn't vote for a clean repeal are in the majority, so they're not RINO's. They're the REAL majority Republican, ObamaCare lovers.

The minority Republicans who rejected Obamacare Lite are the RINO's. God bless the House Freedom Caucus and the other RINO's who killed Ryan/Trump commie care.

Down with the REAL Republicans, like Ryan, Trump, and Gatlin! The good news is that they lost, and that's an awesome trend which needs to continue.

And they're very very angry to be exposed for what they really are.

They are also terrified that the bags of cash are going to stop showing up on their doorsteps,and they will have to actually live off their salaries.

Truth is, the bulk of Republicans are NOT on the side of the people. They are crony capitalists who want tax breaks for the rich and stockjobbing contracts that privatize the government on a for-profit basis for the well- connected.

Preach it,brother,preach it!

We don't agree all that often,but we are in perfect agreement on that.

The Republicans could be better, but they just love money and power so very much they can't seem to accept that redistribution of SOME excess wealth is necessary to keep suffering down.

Don't kid yourself. NOBODY is greedier than the Dims. Nobody. They make the RINO's look like shoplifters by comparison.

"The Freedom Caucus was ready before and is still ready to vote for the 2015 Price bill."

Again. What's the difference between the 2015 Price bill and what Trump proposed? Nothing. So I don't believe you or the Freedom Caucus.

As Ted Poe said, they'd vote against the Ten Commandments.

What's the difference between the 2015 Price bill and what Trump proposed? Nothing.

Fine. Bring it back for a vote and we'll find out who the chickenshit hypocrites in the House GOP really are. I'd bet the Freedom Caucus people would have no problem voting for it again. It's the RINOs that wouldn't vote for it. I think it was likely the RINOs that were going to spike it if it came to a vote.

On the Wall Street Jornal Report, an hour show on FNC on Saturday, one of their younger (fortyish) reporters had followed this and had a lot of contacts with House aides (he claimed). He said the RINOs were unhappy with it all along with a number of them looking for a reason to desert. As the Freedom Caucus kept insisting on the various repeal provisions (as they had all along), the RINOs got madder. The reporter said that by the time Ryan called Trump to let him cancel the bill, they didn't even have 100 votes left in favor of it. It wasn't just a loss by a few votes in the House, something they would have tried for like they did with the Pill Bill in 2004. It was an utter humiliation because they wanted to pass their own 0bamaCare but one that screwed a lot of working-class people in Red states to punish them for being dumb enough to trust Republicans would do what they campaigned for.

"The reporter said that by the time Ryan called Trump to let him cancel the bill, they didn't even have 100 votes left in favor of it."

How would that be any different than if the Freedom Caucus got their way and wrote the bill? That's what you want, right? Hardcore repeal and replace, slash and burn, out with the old and in with the new?

"Notice Jordan saying here that the House Freedom Caucus was united on starting with the 2015 bill passed in both chambers and then following up with another 'replace' bill."

Again, no different than Trump who called the repeal bill Part I, regulatory rollback by the HHS secretary Part II, and the replace portion (which needs 60 votes) Part III.

As Ted Poe said, they'd vote against the Ten Commandments.

Ted Poe would know, he was on the "inner circle" until he got wise and told them to go to Hell ...

How would that be any different than if the Freedom Caucus got their way and wrote the bill? That's what you want, right? Hardcore repeal and replace, slash and burn, out with the old and in with the new?

Just bring back the Price bill from 2015 for a vote. That's all.

It passed both chambers then. And again in a veto override attempt.

Pass it again.

Now that we control everything -- which they demanded -- they can't stop. If they're not obstructing Democrats, why, they'll switch to obstructing Republicans. They don't know how to govern, and they're demonstrating why they shouldn't be given the power to govern.

Nobody in the GOP leadership sat down with the Freedom Caucus before Trump introduced the bill and had a come-to-Jesus meeting with them? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

"Just bring back the Price bill from 2015 for a vote. That's all."

The 2015 Price bill is no different than what Trump offered. If it was, I'd agree with you. But it's not.

Republicans voted for the Price bill and 53 other similar bills because they knew Obama would veto them. Even if the 2015 Price bill was flawed, who cares? It's not going to pass anyways.

But when the 2015 Price bill was turned into a real bill by Trump, the Freedom Caucus got cold feet.

But when the 2015 Price bill was turned into a real bill by Trump, the Freedom Caucus got cold feet.

They are not the same.

And the idea that Trump even read it is laughable.

"They are not the same."

What do you know that I don't? If they are not the same then tell me the difference.

H.R.2653 — 114th Congress (2015-2016), the American Health Care Reform Act of 2015

The list of changes is quite extensive. High-risk pools at the state level, extensive support for medical savings accounts, VA reform, tort reform, association plans (for self-insured and small businesses), and more.

That. Pass that. Like they did twice only 14 months ago.

H.R.2653 — 114th Congress (2015-2016), the American Health Care Reform Act of 2015

That's not the Tom Price bill. That bill went nowhere.

I gave you the link to the Tom Price bill which Congress DID pass and looks just like what Trump proposed.

"Tort reform, interstate purchasing, and a lot of other elements aren't there"

Where did you see "tort reform, interstate purchasing, and a lot of other elements" in the 2015 Tom Price bill?

Where did you see "tort reform, interstate purchasing, and a lot of other elements" in the 2015 Tom Price bill?

Here, for instance:

They don't know how to govern, and they're demonstrating why they shouldn't be given the power to govern.

Yep ...

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/3762

No mention of "tort reform, interstate purchasing, and a lot of other elements". From now on, use HR3762.

Uh, no. That was "tort reform, interstate purchasing, and a lot of other elements" in a 2015 Tom Price bill (HR2300)that was introduced and went nowhere.

Just how many 0care repeal bills did Price write in 2015 anyway?

I see this one has a title of "Restoring Americans' Healthcare Freedom Reconciliation Act of 2015". Yet other reporting did indicate that its title was AHCRA.

At any rate, the Price bill does not go far enough. It will result in another 0bamaCare death spiral. But the GOP will own it 100% with the voters and the Dems will be happy to point out that the entire exercise was just so the GOP could deliver big tax cuts to the richest Americans (with a few tax cut scraps for middle-class Americans to go along with it). And the GOP has publicly admitted that this was just something to cut costs so they could make their tax cuts bigger while complying with budget law and reconciliation.

Trump should get on his knees and thank God for the Freedom Caucus spiking this atrocity of a bill. It fulfills every negative stereotype in the public's mind about the GOP.

"Just how many 0care repeal bills did Price write in 2015 anyway?"

That went through the House and Senate and was vetoed by Obama? Just one.

"At any rate, the Price bill does not go far enough."

Correct. But it goes as far as it can for a reconciliation bill. Which is why there is a Part II and a Part III to Trump's plan.

"was just so the GOP could deliver big tax cuts to the richest Americans (with a few tax cut scraps for middle-class Americans to go along with it)."

"... big tax cuts to the richest Americans?" You should change your screen name to Tooliberal".

They get the biggest tax cuts because they pay the biggest taxes. You want to scrap a bill because the middle class gets a tax cut, but it's not as big?

Neither should anyone else who actually gives a damn about the country.

OTOH, if you want to levy debts and taxes on children not even yet born to pay for your luxuries and your retirement, then I suppose you like it just fine.

"Me? I don't want any tax cuts until the national debt is paid down."

Again, spoken like a liberal.

A "tax cut" is a tax rate cut. Reagan cut tax rates and tax income to the treasury increased.

Liberals think that's voodoo.

You can cut taxes after the debt is reduced. And you stop robbing babies and unborn children by passing your debts on to them, ya deadbeat.

"Cut government spending, not tax rates."

What else do you suggest? Is the deficit something we can "cut" our way out of?

I'm not sure he will do that. This is why presidential budgets are routinely declared DOA on the Hill.

For Trump's budget to mean much

When's the last time you saw a President propose a budget like that? Yet it's not good enough for you.

When's the last time you saw a President propose a budget like that? Yet it's not good enough for you.

That's all it is, a proposal.

But if Trump wants to hold the line on a budget, he has to be ready to veto. Right up to closing down the government if need be.

I assume you do know that it is Congress that sets spending. The prez can only veto specific spending bills and dare them to override him.

"I assume you do know that it is Congress that sets spending."

Yes. But I thought we were discussing Trump.

Yes. But I thought we were discussing Trump.

That is because you somehow think everything is about your lord and savior, Donald Trump.

And Trump doesn't even care what is in the bill. "Forget about the little shit", is what he told the brave and wonderful Freedom Caucus when he went to the Hill to threaten them.

I was talking about Congress who is, after all, the only ones who can pass or repeal anything. Unlike you, I don't think Trump has read so much as a single page of RynoCare.

"And Trump doesn't even care what is in the bill."

What bill? The budget bill? The healthcare bill? You're jumping all over the place.

"I've only discussed RynoCare, not the upcoming budget (which doesn't exist yet)."

In your post #33, you said, "Cut government spending, not tax rates."

In your post #33, you said, "Cut government spending, not tax rates."

As a general principle, sure.

Naturally, there is no budget bill from Ryan so we have nothing to discuss yet. A president is required to propose one to indicate to Congress what he wants in the budget but Congress never pays that much attention. Well, unless the prez is insisting on massive new spending and expansion of federal power so they can dole out a lot of goodies and further control everyone's lives. This would be for major wars and such when they shift into high gear. LBJ and FDR and Lincoln would be prime examples.

"A president is required to propose one to indicate to Congress what he wants in the budget"

Correct. But he's not required to propose one with the massive cuts that Trump proposed.

"As a general principle, sure."

I see. In the middle of a healthcare debate, you just decided to throw in overall government spending as a general principle? In case I forgot? In case you forgot?

Correct. But he's not required to propose one with the massive cuts that Trump proposed.

The only way that the proposed budget means much is if Trump is willing to veto one or more of the 11 major spending bills if they don't bend spending seriously in the direction his budget requested.

Otherwise, Trump's budget means exactly zero.

In the middle of a healthcare debate, you just decided to throw in overall government spending as a general principle?

The reason they went with specific measures in RyanCare was to drive the CBO score downward so they could have a bigger tax cut.

As it stood, it sounds like they started out wanting a $350-$400 billion tax cut but after the House worked its magic, the savings would have been down to $150-$200 billion. And that was before it headed over to the Senate to get porked up some more.

And for all that bait-and-switch to pretend that this is the repeal the GOP dangled in front of us for the last four elections, you want these tiny cost savings for a small tax cut (which would go to the richest people in America who happen to be overwhelmingly Dem donors and advocates). And the GOP would utterly own it. The libmedia would accurately call it GOPcare, RyanCare, or TrumpCare.

The only way that the proposed budget means much"

My point was ... what other President had the balls to even propose such cuts? What comes later, well see. All you have now are "ifs".

"As it stood, it sounds like they started out wanting a $350-$400 billion tax cut but after the House worked its magic, the savings would have been down to $150-$200 billion."

The CBO scored it as a $337 billion savings. That's the only CBO number that I've heard.

So, where did you get your $150-$200 billion number? From the Tooconservative magic calculator?

I'm waiting to see whether the Ryan budget will give Trump even 50% of what he is asking for. And I'm pretty sure the Senate budget will be business-as-usual other than increased defense spending.