Watching that video, I can in no way agree the cop had any legit claim to being in fear for his life. The guy getting out of the car did so in a very reasonable manner and never made any action to give the cop any legit concerns. He complied with the cops instructions as speedily as any reasonable person could manage but was shot anyway.

Those that claim otherwise are simply fostering a climate where cops should be feared at all times, and should have no problem with classes being given to school children about how to behave around a cop to avoid getting shot by them. The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the judgment of the Southern District Court of Iowa in that the use of force by Ofc. Hancock was reasonable.

What does matter and has consequences is that the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the judgment of the Southern District Court of Iowa [and claimed otherwise] in that they ruled the use of force by Officer Hancock was reasonable.

The two courts watched the same video you did….then reviewed all evidence and heard complete testimonies before carefully arriving at their decision.

It is noteworthy to mention that you libertarian anarchists assholes have never cared what both a circuit court and an appeals court decides when it goes against your agenda….have you?

"and never made any action to give the cop any legit concerns."

So you think it's a good idea to hold your black wallet in both hands, at night, while getting out of your vehicle without being ordered to do so?

The cops made a mistake …

And so did you….I will explain this later.

But first, you are only expressing your opinion, based on viewing a few short seconds of a video and after knowing the facts as explained to you by an author with an agenda, Matt Agorist.

You of course are entitled to your opinion. But fortunately, our system of justice does not make rulings based on a person’s opinion after viewing ONLY 5 SECONDS [between 00:21-00:26 on the video]

Now, Stone….I would like you to please pay close attention to some information I am going to share with you.

The cops made a mistake and a man is dead.

It will no doubt come as a great surprise to you to learn that Michael Edwards, the man you said was shot dead is back home in Texas in the process of completing community college, while working part-time jobs and taking care of his mother.

     [http://wrbl.com/2017/03/08/dashcam-video-of-2014-opelika-police- officer-involved-shooting-released/]

You now see what happens when you make a snap decision, pass quick judgment and come to the wrong conclusion when you don’t get the facts straight….don’t you?

The cops should be fired at the least for being such a dumb ass. Possibly prosecuted and executed. I'd have to know more. But fired at the least for being to stupid to carry a gun.

”I'd have to know more.”

Yep, we are in agreement about that.

You should have known more before you came to your conclusion.

You should know what the judges on the two different courts knew before you passed judgment based on viewing only 5 seconds of a video …

Please….PLEASE….don’t become a Deckard …

"and never made any action to give the cop any legit concerns."

So you think it's a good idea to hold your black wallet in both hands, at night, while getting out of your vehicle without being ordered to do so?

In West St. Paul, officer Scott Patrick, 47, was shot as he approached a vehicle, unaware the driver was not the registered owner but a wanted fugitive with a long rap sheet who faced three years in prison for a probation violation. Witnesses said Patrick never got a word out or a chance to pull his gun in defense. He was ambushed from the driver's side by an individual who will likely now face life in prison without parole for the murder. http://www.forcescience.org/nosuchthing.html]

An officer being shot as he approaches the driver’s side of a stopped vehicle occurs all too often….there are numerous cases on record of this repeatedly happening.

So, Matt Agorist and Deckard expect me to see 5 seconds of a video and read a yellow journalism article to then condemn an officer who shot an individual that QUICKLY jumps out of a vehicle with a dark object in his hand …

Fuck ‘em….both ‘em!

There is such a thing as Kevin's Wallet Holster….a full-concealment holster that's perfect for carry at work or campus, where legal. It completely hides the gun from the view of anyone.

The young lad made a mistake, an unfortunate and stupid mistake….he QUICKLY jumped out of his car towards the officer with something dark in his hands.

Everything you read everywhere, says you should stay in your vehicle as an officer approaches you with both hands on the dash board fully visible and wait for instructions …

….he QUICKLY jumped out of his car towards the officer with something dark in his hands.

In both hands. You know, the way you hold a firearm.

the way you hold a firearm.

The way you hold a box of donuts too.

based on viewing a few short seconds of a video

A few short seconds is all the time the cop gave the man.

The man was getting out of his car, holding a wallet for pete's sake.

If a cop can't tell the difference between a wallet and a gun or pisses his pants at the slightest perceived threat, then he has no business being a cop.

Not that it matters because cops can use the magic words "I feared for my life" and be exonerated of murder.

Oh and your "wallet gun"?

That's almost as absurd as the keychain gun you used to defend a school for suspending a student.

You really think that a guy who has just been in an accident and is trying to get out of his car is going to come out shooting?

….he QUICKLY jumped out of his car towards the officer with something dark in his hands.

Something dark, flat and rectangular.

Yeah - it must have been a gun.

….he QUICKLY jumped out of his car towards the officer with something dark in his hands.

Something dark, flat and rectangular.

Exactly….now YOU are getting the picture clearly.

The “something dark, flat and rectangular” looked like a Kevin's Wallet Holster …

… right?

Police departments are now using 300-degree screen to train in every possible tactical situation. The Phoenix PD also uses another method….live simulated training with real time actions.

I would like you to please watch a video and see what happened to someone who like you, thought he could - and had the right to - decide when an officer should “Shoot or Don’t Shoot” as he went through the “Shoot or Don’t Shoot” training course here in Phoenix conducted by the Maricopa County Sheriff Department.

Remember, you will be watching a civil right activists who led marches in Phoenix protesting a police shooting that killed an unarmed man….and he is the most outspoken critic of police use of force here in the Valley.

Thank you …

The “something dark, flat and rectangular” looked like a Kevin's Wallet Holster …

I doubt the cop is even aware that those exist, and secondly - how many accident victims stumble out of their cars with guns a-blazing?

I would say zero, but don't let that stop you for defending this POS coward who shot a man holding a wallet.

Let’s see what happens …

Interesting …

Yes, the officer was shot!

And you folks are trying to sell me on the fact that you can decide perfectly well what to do when in a “Shoot or Don’t Shoot” situation?

Well, I ain’t buying it …

Notice that the officer placed his full hand on the trunk as when he came into contact with the vehicle.

Do you know why? No? Then I will tell you.

They do that so their fingerprints will be on the trunk of the vehicle for evidence.

The officer was shot in the head and survived …

A few short seconds is all the time the cop gave the man.

It takes less time than that for the officer to die. If the officer is in reasonable fear for his life, he has a right to self defense. Your perception from the safety of your computer is not part of the equation. Is what the officer perceived.

What is this perp pulling out of his right rear pocket at 2:55 in the video?

Oh yea, sure…it’s his wallet, of course….to show the officer his driver’s license.

Does “that” look like a wallet?

Could you have made a properly “Shoot or No Shoot” decision here?

When they exit their vehicle... that's a good sign things are going to SHIT.

I figured that out a long long time ago....and I am not even a trained cop.

… secondly - how many accident victims stumble out of their cars with guns a-blazing?

I would say zero …

And I would say you are wrong …

The guy was stumbling out of his car, wallet in hand - not a gun or anything remotely resembling a gun.

And you copsuckers insist it was justified.

It really doesn’t matter what YOU agree with, it changes nothing and has no consequences…. although you certainly have a right to your opinion.

I sensed a disturbance in the force on this thread, and took you off bozo, and sure enough....

You see, Gatlin, this is the kind of stupidity for which the bozo list was especially made for. YOUR stupidity. To wit, your response to my stated opinion about the video is as stupid as it gets, and the reasons why really need not be explained beyond reading it.

What does matter and has consequences is that the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit affirmed the judgment of the Southern District Court of Iowa [and claimed otherwise] in that they ruled the use of force by Officer Hancock was reasonable.

The two courts watched the same video you did….then reviewed all evidence and heard complete testimonies before carefully arriving at their decision.

It is noteworthy to mention that you libertarian anarchists assholes have never cared what both a circuit court and an appeals court decides when it goes against your agenda….have you?

More stupidity. By your logic, Obamacare should be accepted and left in place because the USSC decided it was sound legislation, and anyone who differs in opinion from the UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT is just a "libertarian anarchist asshole", so they should grow up, shut up and STOP POSTING THEIR DAMNED LIBERTARIAN OPINIONS.

I have never encountered anyone with a sicker obsession with any political philosophy as you have with your fetish of all things libertarian. Hell, you'd probably choose a communist government over a libertarian government, wouldn't you? I've never seen you post anything bad about communism.

So you think it's a good idea to hold your black wallet in both hands, at night, while getting out of your vehicle without being ordered to do so?

What I think is that a significant consideration that may well be getting overlooked is the fact that this was NOT a traffic stop. This was a road incident that the cop was responding to, and the man in the car was waiting for the cop to arrive. This was NOT a case of a hot pursuit of a suspected bank robber or other criminal event. If the guy in the car was in any fear of the police, then he would not have been sitting there waiting for the cop to arrive. He would have fled the scene beforehand. So unlike a traffic stop, the man in the car was willing to wait for the police to come. Since it was not a traffic stop, the normal procedure of waiting for police instruction to get out of the car would not reasonably apply. Instead, getting out of the car to greet the officer would be a normal response for someone who was waiting for them to come.

Everything you read everywhere, says you should stay in your vehicle as an officer approaches you with both hands on the dash board fully visible and wait for instructions …

This was NOT a traffic stop.

As for whether he was stupid, arguably, yes he was stupid. He was stupid because he didn't realize that the cop that was arriving was not only armed, but in perpetual fear for his life and legally permitted to use deadly force against anyone who might be in any theoretical position to harm him in any way whatsoever, regardless of the circumstances of the encounter or whether any crime or offense was commited. The man should have realized that by choosing to wait for the cop to arrive, he was putting himself in danger. The man was stupid for thinking that the cop that was arriving to perform a public service would shoot to kill him at the drop of a hat. He was stupid for not realizing that he should have exited a car differently from how he usually exits a car around people who are not cops.

So yes, if he was stupid, it was for these reasons. Clearly, classes need to be given in high schools about how to behave around cops to avoid giving them a reason to shoot you, and I'm totally serious about that, given the ruling in this case that this shooting was justified.

If cops want a pass to be so paranoid as to shoot in these situations, then the public needs to be aware of it and be trained to give that paranoia the respect you say this man should have provided.

You really think that a guy who has just been in an accident and is trying to get out of his car is going to come out shooting?

Bingo. The man was making a voluntary encounter with the police, unlike with traffic stops in which the stopped driver is not given any choice.

Bingo. The man was making a voluntary encounter with the police, unlike with traffic stops in which the stopped driver is not given any choice.

Just seems obvious to me. The cop had no reason to "fear for his life". The man exiting the car was laboring to get the door open since it was tilted to the side - there is no possible way a person in that situation could open the door and exit in an aggressive manner, especially with a gun.

It was an accident scene and the cop's first priority should have been to check to see that everyone was OK.

Seems to me that the police have lost sight of their responsibilities and have been trained to view any situation as a threat to their own safety.

The fact that the courts sided with the police is really no surprise - that doesn't make them correct.

It amazes me that some posters here are so enamored with police that they will defy any semblance of logic in order to excuse their egregious behavior such as in this case.

I mean a freaking wallet gun? Give me a break.

I'd bet money that if something like this happened to one of them, if a cop shot paulsen or Gatlin, the two of them would kneel down and thank the cop.

Just seems obvious to me. The cop had no reason to "fear for his life". The man exiting the car was laboring to get the door open since it was tilted to the side - there is no possible way a person in that situation could open the door and exit in an aggressive manner, especially with a gun.

I wouldn't say that it couldn't be done. If the guy did want to shoot the cop, then I think he could have managed to come out with a gun and tried. But if that were the case, the guy could have just hidden somewhere down the embankment and ambushed the cop as he came out of the cruiser instead of waiting so predictably in the driver seat of his car, especially when he has to push the door up hill to get out.

But when things get to the point where the discussion turns to if there was any conceivable way where the guy could have assaulted or killed the cop, then we've accepted that we live in a state of perpetual street warfare. Yes, cops get killed. But so do people of every profession. That's life. And there's the point I made I think on the other thread that if a cop shooting in this situation is okay, then why wouldn't it be okay for anyone else to shoot a guy getting out of a car with a wallet in both hands? And of course it wouldn't be okay. A concealed carry holder gunning down a guy like this would never be allowed a "I feared for my life" defense. I see this as a 14th Amendment Equal Protection clause issue where the law applies differently between cops and non-cops.

If society grants cops this entitlement to a "fear for life" defense when it comes to traffic stops which puts the general public in greater danger, then it really begs for a review of whether traffic stops for minor infractions increases or decreases overall public safety.

Seems to me that the police ..... have been trained to view any situation as a threat to their own safety.

That's precisely what the court has implicitly decided in saying the shooting was justified.

The fact that the courts sided with the police is really no surprise - that doesn't make them correct.

It does to Gatlin. At least when the courts agree with him.

It amazes me that some posters here are so enamored with police that they will defy any semblance of logic in order to excuse their egregious behavior such as in this case.

Either they are enamored, or they are just not posting honestly.

I mean a freaking wallet gun? Give me a break.

Hell, he could have had a Get Smart style shoe gun.

No? Then shut your fucking Black Lies Matters anarchist shat flap. It Yes, then what are you bitching about?

Find a different AGENDA, drug addict lover.

I sensed a disturbance in the force on this thread, and took you off bozo, and sure enough....

Don’t make an excuse, grovel or act in an obsequious manner to try in some way to explain why you took me off bozo …

Just get on with it and say WTF you want to say.

I'd bet money that if something like this happened to one of them, if a cop shot paulsen or Gatlin, the two of them would kneel down and thank the cop.

I'd bet If Gatlin or White were stopped by a marked patrol car, they'd be smart enough to stay in their car. Natural selection indicates that those you hate WILL SURVIVE LONGER THAN THOSE YOU DEFEND.

lol

Just seems obvious to me. The cop had no reason to "fear for his life".

And tell the whole forum why your OPINION of the event means ANYTHING?

lol

So you think it's a good idea to hold your black wallet in both hands, at night, while getting out of your vehicle without being ordered to do so?

What I think is that a significant consideration that may well be getting overlooked is the fact that this was NOT a traffic stop. This was a road incident that the cop was responding to, and the man in the car was waiting for the cop to arrive. This was NOT a case of a hot pursuit of a suspected bank robber or other criminal event. If the guy in the car was in any fear of the police, then he would not have been sitting there waiting for the cop to arrive. He would have fled the scene beforehand. So unlike a traffic stop, the man in the car was willing to wait for the police to come. Since it was not a traffic stop, the normal procedure of waiting for police instruction to get out of the car would not reasonably apply. Instead, getting out of the car to greet the officer would be a normal response for someone who was waiting for them to come.

Oh, I get it. I know exactly what you mean. It was like the accident on Interstate 10 on the outskirt of Phoenix that was also not a traffic stop.

Let’s look a a partial video of that one …

Wait, this Phoenix incident was NOT a traffic stop either. This was also an accident the highway patrolman was responding to, and the man was waiting for whatever. You are right, this Phoenix incident was also NOT a case of a hot pursuit of a suspected bank robber or other criminal event. And if the guy in this car or waiting beside the car on Interstate 10 was in any fear of the police, then he too would not have been sitting [kneeling or standing] there waiting. He also had to have known the Arizona Highway Patrol would be responding to this accident and he too would have fled the scene beforehand. The highway patrolman was to expect someone crawling out of the overturned car or waiting by the car to greet him would have a “normal’ response for waiting to greet him…RIGHT?

Oh, I’m so sorry that I just crapped all over your beautifully portrayed scenario plot of dramatic work where you gave such detailed particulars as to the scene every officer is SUPPOSE to expect upon arriving at an accident….outlining the action in order in which the event is suppose to take place, the description of the event, characters, their actions, etc.

The bold reality simply is that when an officer arrives at any scene - be it a traffic accident, domestic home disturbance or any of the numerous other incidents officers respond to daily – the officer never knows exactly what to expect. Other than to know he must ALWAYS expect to be attacked or shot and therefore he must constantly watch for and anticipate any apparent aggressive move towards him.

When a vehicle occupant gets out of a vehicle, without being instructed to, on a vehicle stop, that's a good indication that real bad shit is going to happen.

As for whether he was stupid, arguably, yes he was stupid. He was stupid because he didn't realize that the cop that was arriving was not only armed, but in perpetual fear for his life and legally permitted to use deadly force against anyone who might be in any theoretical position to harm him in any way whatsoever, regardless of the circumstances of the encounter or whether any crime or offense was commited. The man should have realized that by choosing to wait for the cop to arrive, he was putting himself in danger. The man was stupid for thinking that the cop that was arriving to perform a public service would shoot to kill him at the drop of a hat. He was stupid for not realizing that he should have exited a car differently from how he usually exits a car around people who are not cops.

The remainder of your statement is so asininely foolish that I simply will not take time to address your assertions.

There's a video where a white male exits a pick up truck on a V&T stop, the officer orders him back in his truck. The scumbag reaches in his truck, pulls out an AK47 and starts shooting at the officer in an instant... killing the officer. The officer in reality SHOULD HAVE SHOT the scumbag as soon as he exited the vehicle, it was his only chance for survival. You can even hear the officer gurgling blood as he died behind the patrol car. Post that video. That is shown in police academies across this country.

When a vehicle occupant gets out of a vehicle, without being instructed to, on a vehicle stop, that's a good indication that real bad shit is going to happen.

I I posted a similar video on this thread showing a man getting out of a pickup truck in the same manner that Davidson got out of his car in the video on this thread. The man in the video I posted shot the officer.

These fuckin’ libertarians try to mentally live in some imagined utopistic world where everything relates to a perfect or ideal existence according the ways they dream of and try to prescribe.

They are nothing but wannabes zealots and impractical reformers of human society. Well, that is not actually all true….they are also ASSHOLES without a rationally operating brain.

You really think that a guy who has just been in an accident and is trying to get out of his car is going to come out shooting?

Bingo.

This is not some stupid little game where you mark off numbers on cards.

The highway patrolman in Phoenix [Post #21 and other posts] did not really think the guy there who had just been in an accident and was trying to get out of his car [or had just already gotten out of his car] was going to come out shooting.

That highway patrolman is alive today. Had he been the responding officer present when Davidson jumped out of his vehicle with both hands grasping something dark in the same manner someone would be grasping a gun….do you think he would have said to Davidson: “Good evening, Sir – may I please see your registration and license?” Or he also have shot his stupid ass?

I am no libertarian idiot….I’ll go with the second choice.

Im happy the man is alive.

Still the cops actions were wreckless. He should be fired. Maybe he can get a job at McDonald's.

The fact remains the cop was wrong. He made a very terrible decision. Oerhaps he would serve society better by flipping burgers.

I know he had to react fast and he did act fast. Fast and wrong. He should be fired.

Just seems obvious to me.

You have mastered the Art of Non-Conformity in that you set your own rules to live your life the way you want to live it….and fuck everyone who doesn’t agree with you or live their lives like you think they should.

The fact remains the cop was wrong.

That is not a FACT.

That is a gross mischaracterization.

“Your OPINION remains the cop was wrong.”

And you of course are entitled to your opinion.

That is a different incident and not relevant to the current topic.

All incidents are DIFFERENT….no two are ever the same.

When a cop shoots someone, or someone shoots a cop….everything becomes REVELENT.

Cop needs to work on his burger flipping skills. Maybe that is a job he can handle. His actions of shooting an unarmed person shows that his brain reacts way to slow to be a police officer. Dumb people shouldnt have the responsibility of making decisions like the incorrect one his lame brain made.

He didnt have a gun wallet. Not to relevant.

And you can’t tell either for looking only at the video….but it is easily seen after you were informed what to see.

Yes he was.

Yes he was....what?

The officer didn’t know what in the Hell Davidson had with his hands held together like someone would grasp a fun.

So the officer didn't know and shot anyway. After he is fired he should be drug tested. Maybe that is why he failed so miserably. Maybe all cops should be drug tesred after a shooting. You know just to dot the i's and cross the t's.