If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so- called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories.

The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Ronald Reagan

Now, I can't say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who CALL themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians [like you, Deckard, and hondope] who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy.

Probably not …

But Vic is a person who wants the government to force me to help people.

Correction: I want the government to continue to force you to pay taxes, along with everybody else, so that we can, as a polity, continue to help people. That's right.

"Correction: I want the government to continue to force you to pay taxes, along with everybody else, so that we can, as a polity, continue to help people. That's right."

"The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."
-- James Madison, speech in the House of Representatives, January 10, 1794

Go genuflect before your statue of St. Donald slave-boy.

...effort to support your fanatical anarchist agenda to destroy America?

You neo-con pricks already did that with your support of Dubya.

It's a good mix of people, including some conservative critics (The New York Time's Ross Douthat, National Review's David French, Commentary's Noah Rothman) and Steve Horwitz of Bleeding Heart Libertarians along with yours truly.

Good mix of people for what,pop up targets?

BTW,*I* consider myself to be a Libertarian in the model set forth by Thomas Jefferson. Shitheads like YOU are "Libertarians" in the model of Hitler. The only viewpoint you consider to be acceptable is your own.

The Trump cultists here (and the Bush-Bots before them) will accept any level of tyranny as long as it's their guy in the Oval Office.

Wake up,dummy! It ain't tryanny if it is harmful to the current police state and helpful to setting America back on a Constitutional basis.

Just stop at, "Libertarianism is nothing." It's a 2% fringe group that no one supports because it's philosophy is more anarchy than anti-authoritarianism.

Well,it's understandable that a natural-born slave that longs for the boot heel of a dictator on the back of his neck to think that no one else values freedom.

"then it is ok and necessary to coerce them to get done what needs to be done."

Uh-huh. Take from each according to their ability to pay, and distribute to each according to their needs.

Where have I heard that before?

FOP union meeting?

Not according to dopey (hondopehead). Dopey said at least 100 times we should support Gay Johnson.

So what?

You DO understand we are all free to think for ourselves,right?

WTH would I or anyone else care about what Johnson thinks?

I never have claimed to be an anarchist.

You are what you are….and Ted Bundy was what he was!

Drug use is immoral. Libertarians champion it.

Case closed you lose.

WRONG X 2.

Drug use is NOT immoral,and Libertarians do NOT "champion" it.

What Libertarians stand on is the ground that says all free adults have the right to live their own lives in peace as long as they are not harming others.

What is TRULY immoral is some witch doctor telling the sheep in his flock what is moral and what is immoral,when clearly THEY have no idea of what morality means.

One came to our high school back in the 80's. I thought they guy had a lot of weird ideas.

Do you base your opinion of all members of a political party on the public utterances of ONE of them?

Does John McLunatic or Lady Lindsey speak for you?

Libertarians believe in moral relativism -- that there is no universal moral truth.

Really? Find me ONE prominent actual Libertarian that claims murder,rape,slavery,etc,etc,etc are all just peachy-keen.

Either that,or STFU about things you don't understand.

But for longer-term prospects, Jesus made clear what we must do.

Be slaves to the Pope?

Teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles when Priest enters the room?

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals — if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so- called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories.

The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

Ronald Reagan

Ronald Reagan was not talking about what you fanatical Paultard assholes call libertarianism.

When Ronald Reagan said that “If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism,” he didn’t mean today’s dope-and-sodomy libertarianism.¹.

He was talking about the western character of conservatism he shared with other western Republicans. In the open spaces of the west, one comes to believe in a live-and-let-live way of operating.”¹.

Reagan's record, while generally conservative, is not particularly libertarian.².

Ronald Reagan was NO Libertarian.³

Get that through your thick skull …

"The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specified objects. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." -- James Madison, speech in the House of Representatives, January 10, 1794

James Madison, the slaveholder, is dead.

In America today we have rejected James Madison's slavery, and we have also rejected his view on public charity. We have decided that poverty relief is an object to which government at all levels is properly engaged in combating.

Madison would have opposed this, and you still do.

But I think that poverty relief is a proper goal of government. And my view is in the majority, so it's the law of the land.

Be slaves to the Pope?

Teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles when Priest enters the room?

No, Jesus didn't tell us to be slaves to the Pope, or to teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles for priests.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach those things either.

"But I think that poverty relief is a proper goal of government. And my view is in the majority, so it's the law of the land. "

And what happens when the percentage of those in poverty reach 51%? What's to stop them voting themselves all the money of those who work?

"In total, the Census Bureau estimated, 151,014,000 Americans out of a population then estimated to be 306,804,000 received benefits from one or more government programs during the last three months of 2011. Those 151,014,000 beneficiaries equaled 49.2 percent of the population".
-- Oct 23, 2013

James Madison, the slaveholder, is dead.

Vic is alive too.

Vic would vote for HIllary the baby Killer if she ran against Cruz the christian.

No, Jesus didn't tell us to be slaves to the Pope, or to teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles for priests.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach those things either.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach little boys to bend over. But they did cover up quite a bit of it for quite a long period of time.

Be slaves to the Pope?

Teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles when Priest enters the room?

You know very well that that isn't the teachings of Christ.

And what happens when the percentage of those in poverty reach 51%? What's to stop them voting themselves all the money of those who work?

Common sense. The filibuster. The Courts. The whole system of checks and balances in our system. The fact that Congressmen and Senators and state legislators are themselves all people of means who won't vote for that because it won't work.

Truth is, there's no risk of that happening.

Vic is alive too.

Vic would vote for HIllary the baby Killer if she ran against Cruz the christian.

That choice was not on offer.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach little boys to bend over. But they did cover up quite a bit of it for quite a long period of time.

And it was disgusting that they did so, and is a reason why Catholics do not docilely do whatever the Church says. In the Middle Ages, many did, but men in power, whether in government or in the Church, sometimes grotesquely abuse that power.

Which means that men in power, including men of the Church, cannot be completely trusted and always have to be watched. One of the 12 Apostles, handpicked by Jesus, was a scumbag.

The priestly pedophilia cases, and the Church's coverup of them, teach us what we all should have known already: you cannot completely trust anybody with your kids - you have to be vigilant.

Anyone who does questions authority, demands accountability for cops, is against the drug war, criticizes Trump and exposes corrupt criminal government actions.

No, Jesus didn't tell us to be slaves to the Pope, or to teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles for priests.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach those things either.

Hard to believe after looking at history.

Be slaves to the Pope?

Teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles when Priest enters the room?

You know very well that that isn't the teachings of Christ.

Yes,I do,but we both know very well that might as well have been the teachings of the Catholic Church for hundreds of years,and for hundreds of years they were the only Christian Church.

It was the corruption and evil done by the Catholic Church that led to the revolution that created Protestantism,and it was started by Martin Luther,a Catholic Priest himself that was fed up with the corruption from Rome.

Ronald Reagan was NO Libertarian.

The fact remains - what he said about "...the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism" is true.

BTW, your obsession with sodomy is just a bit bizarre - do you think you could keep your fantasies to yourself?

This place doesn't need another homo like yukon defiling the character of this site.

Hard to believe after looking at history.

Yes, yes, you detest the Catholic Church. We know.

You needn't worry. Catholics make up maybe 20% of the population of the US, and half of them are only nominal Catholics, not real practitioners. So there's zero danger of them doing anything that will interfere with your life.

I would like to know is just ONE authoritarian thing Trump has done as President...JUST ONE?....

I'm betting that he has told Melina at least once to "Shake it,baby!"

The priestly pedophilia cases, and the Church's coverup of them, teach us what we all should have known already: you cannot completely trust anybody with your kids - you have to be vigilant.

I think the Prime Lesson learned from that is more universal,and has been expressed many times by the saying "Power corrupts,and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

None of us are entirely immune to those temptations,but I AM willing to bet more than 90 percent of us have no trouble not molesting children. That's a special kind of sickness that goes beyond normal temptations.

"The incidence of sexual abuse by teachers in public schools today has been estimated to be "more than 100 times" that by Catholic priests, and there is alarming evidence of school officials covering up abuse and failing to report suspected cases to authorities."

So you're saying the government will, and should, turn it's back on the needy? You're heartless after all.

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The fact remains -

Now, I can't say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who CALL themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians [like you, Deckard, and hondope] who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy.

for hundreds of years they were the only Christian Church.

That isn't true.

Your specialty.

Can’t you ever do anything but make up lies and post them?

Obviously not …

Vic would vote for HIllary the baby Killer if she ran against Cruz the christian.

That choice was not on offer.

True. But you did say that if Cruz got the nomination you would vote for Hillary.

"The incidence of sexual abuse by teachers in public schools today has been estimated to be "more than 100 times" that by Catholic priests

Sounds like you are saying since Muhammad molested hundreds of little kids it is ok if mistergreen molests one.

Be slaves to the Pope? Teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles when Priest enters the room?

You know very well that that isn't the teachings of Christ.

Yes,I do,

But you said it anyway.

our deception to cherry pick out certain words

r hondope

Your fake news team/alternative facts/lies specialists.....

ISIS Gatlin, and FireIsland

True. But you did say that if Cruz got the nomination you would vote for Hillary.

I probably did that, at a time when I was furious at Cruz for his attacks on Trump. I also said I would not vote for W after his goons took out McCain in South Carolina by insinuating that he had had relations out of wedlock that fathered a black child, when in fact he and his wife had adopted a child from India (I think it was).

I was so disgusted with W that I said I would not vote for him.

But come election time, I held my nose and voted for him anyway.

Same thing with Romney. With Romney I said it was the LAST TIME I would hold my nose and vote, and I meant it.

But the world moves on and new situations arise, and given that it was Hillary Clinton running, and her campaign reminded me just how odious she was, had Cruz been the nominee, or Jeb, or probably any of them, I very probably would have gone and angrily and sullenly voted for the nominee and then bitched about it forever afterwards, pretty much like most of the "NeverTrumpers" did, in the end, go vote for Trump - and hate it.

But yes, in the heat of the primary battle, I said I would not vote for Cruz, and at that moment in time I really truly meant it.

I had a girlfriend once in California who was just not my type, and I kept saying at the end of each weekend "I am NEVER doing that again - I've got to break this off..." But she had other...qualities...that overrode the personality incompatibility.

Sometimes we do what we don't want to do, even though we really meant it when we said "Never!" or "Never again!"

Drug use is NOT immoral

Let me guess, you're one of those asshole faggot loving libtards that call drug addiction a disease?

Illegal drug use IS immoral and prescription drug abuse is also immoral.

Illegal drug use IS immoral and prescription drug abuse is also immoral.

You make no sense. Clearly, you mean to write: "drug use is immoral" but some how you are convinced about some maegikal POWER of GOVERNMENT interference. Why?

for hundreds of years they were the only Christian Church.

That isn't true.

Really? Who else was there?

"The incidence of sexual abuse by teachers in public schools today has been estimated to be "more than 100 times" that by Catholic priests

Sounds like you are saying since Muhammad molested hundreds of little kids it is ok if mistergreen molests one.

Read that same way to me,too.

Be slaves to the Pope? Teach little boys to bend over and grab their ankles when Priest enters the room?

You know very well that that isn't the teachings of Christ.

Yes,I do,

But you said it anyway.

No,I wrote that was the teachings of the Catholic Church,and various Priests.

AFAIK,Christ was never a Catholic.

Let me guess, you're one of those asshole faggot loving libtards that call drug addiction a disease?

If you are anything,it is consistently wrong.