[...] In his late twenties, Trump began attending Marble Collegiate Church on Fifth Avenue. Founded in 1628 in the Dutch colony of New Amsterdam, Marble Collegiate is one of the few institutions that survives from the city’s founding. Peter Minuit, the governor of New Amsterdam, was the first church elder, and Peter Stuyvesant, the colony’s director general, led worshippers to service every Sunday. The high steeple of its current home, erected in 1854, rises two hundred feet above the pavement, a symbol of uprightness set in stone. Here Trump walked down the aisle after exchanging vows with Ivana and heard the sermons of Norman Vincent Peale, a man whose philosophy would become Trump’s own.
[...] Before Trump made his own foray into politics, he read Peale’s book and adopted its program of “positive thinking.” The two men began to trade public compliments. Peale, always generous in his assessments of human nature, said that Trump had a “profound streak of honest humility.” Trump, not exactly showing that humble streak, said that Peale “thought I was his greatest student of all time.” In a certain sense, Trump was right. Peale has had no more perfect disciple.
Peale distilled the optimism and self-sufficiency of the American character into a simple creed. The first article of his faith was a warm patriotism. He called the U.S. “the greatest country in the world” and addressed his writing to “everyday people of this land” who “are my own kind whom I know and love and believe in with great faith.” These were the people he met in masonic halls, resort hotels, and cruise-ship conference rooms. In them he sensed innate decency and ability. Any one of them could become efficient and successful—if only he would believe in himself, harnessing the power of positive thinking.
[...] Thus the necessity of repentance recedes. It is important to think positively, and a negative thought, such as Domine, non sum dignus, can be injurious to spiritual health. Yet the gloomy aspect of traditional Christian practice is also the wellspring of Christian compassion. At the moment a Christian asks for forgiveness, he must acknowledge his own weakness and look mercifully on the weakness of others. In the Our Father, the Christian asks that he be forgiven, just as he in turn forgives. From the holy terror that Peale called “fear thoughts” comes the light of Christian love.
At a campaign event in Iowa, Trump shocked the audience by saying that he had never asked God for forgiveness. All his other disturbing statements — his attacks on every vulnerable group — are made intelligible by this one. The self-sufficient faith Trump absorbed from Peale has no place for human weakness. Human frailty, dependency, and sinfulness cannot be acknowledged; they must be overcome. This opens up the possibility of great cruelty toward those who cannot wish themselves into being winners. A man who need not ask forgiveness need never forgive others. He does not realize his own weakness, and so he mocks and reviles every sign of weakness in his fellow men.
[...] Christianity is a religion of losers. To the weak and humble, it offers a stripped and humiliated Lord. To those without reason for optimism, it holds up the cross as a sign of hope. To anyone who does not win at life, it promises that whoever loses his life for Christ’s sake shall find it. At its center stands a truth that we are prone to forget. There are people who cannot be made into winners, no matter how positive their thinking. They need something more paradoxical and cruciform. [...]
#1: BorisY To: ConservingFreedom (#0)
seems
like
a
false
dichotomy
Material
success
negates
spiritual
success
vice
versa
Actually
Jesus
taught
wealth
can
generate
love
generosity
blessings
rewards
Many
are
called
few
are
chosen
they
would
certainly
know
what
they
are
talking
about
Make
America
rich
great
again
love
boris
ps
Bet
the
writer
understands
street
alley
urban
... marx
... ebonics
... fluently
BorisY posted on 2016-07-07 22:46:45 Reply Private Reply
#2: ConservingFreedom To: BorisY (#1)
Not what he said nor implied. Care to address what he did say? Do you think Trump needs forgiveness from God?
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-07 23:32:13 Reply Private Reply
#3: ConservingFreedom To: All (#0)
"I am not sure I have," Trump said when asked [at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, July 18, 2015] if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness. "I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't." - www.businessinsider.com/t...-like-to-have-to- ask-for-forgiveness-2016-1
"Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person." - www.christianpost.com/new...ave-to-repent-or-ask-for-forgiveness-if- i-am-not-making-mistakes-video-141856
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-07 23:48:56 Reply Private Reply
#4: BorisY To: ConservingFreedom (#2)
Lincoln
said
because
of
previous
difficulties
mother
children
dying
failed
business
romances
difficult
woman
marriage
commander
in
chief
in
an
endless
insufferable
war
He
didn't
surrender
himself
to
God
until
the
over
whelming
tragedy
success
sacrifice
of
the
Battle
of
Gettysburg
this
isn't
ritual
bell
ringing
mumbo
jumbo
praying
we're
talking
about
many
are
called
few
are
chosen
God's
hands
are
Donald
Trump
love
boris
ps
Did
Abraham
Lincoln
ever
attend
church
pss
He
did
have
a
very
Godly
step
mother
BorisY posted on 2016-07-07 23:55:03 Reply Private Reply
#5: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#0)
Sounds like something a Marxist/Jesuit Useful Idiot would say.
"Christ Frees Us"
What does this mean?
VxH posted on 2016-07-08 09:43:30 Reply Private Reply
#6: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#5)
It's your contention that our Lord was not stripped and humiliated? That the cross is not a sign of hope?
What does which mean: "Christ Frees Us", or that ugly POS sculpture? And what does either one have to do with the article?
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 10:36:57 Reply Private Reply
#7: ConservingFreedom To: BorisY (#4)
is not the standard for Godliness (presidential or otherwise).
Every sinner is a tool in God's hands ... which doesn't justify the sinner, nor those who make themselves his accessories.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 10:40:38 Reply Private Reply
#8: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#6)
"Christ Frees Us" is the name of the sculpture.
VxH posted on 2016-07-08 10:48:33 Reply Private Reply
#9: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#8)
No idea what this has to do with the article ... but it looks to me like the meaning is: Man is the measure and meaning, and the Cross is merely a backdrop. I hope for the sake of the "artist"s soul that I'm mistaken.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 11:39:35 Reply Private Reply
#10: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#9)
Which seems in keeping with:
"I am not sure I have," Trump said when asked [at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, July 18, 2015] if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness. "I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't." - www.businessinsider.com/t...-like-to-have-to- ask-for-forgiveness-2016-1
"Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person." - www.christianpost.com/new...ave-to-repent-or-ask-for-forgiveness-if- i-am- not-making-mistakes-video-141856
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 11:41:19 Reply Private Reply
#11: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#9)
Obviously.
Look closer.
http://www.google.com/? gws_rd=ssl#q=%22Christ+Frees+Us%22+lcms
VxH posted on 2016-07-08 11:43:59 Reply Private Reply
#12: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#11)
So? Of the three results on that page (relevant excerpts below), only the last appears problematic - and since it was not written by the article author, nor does the article author appear to even be a member of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, I still see no relevance. Perhaps you should simply state your point.
Here, in our worship, God is truly present. His words, his meal, his water- specific realities-invite us to him. His gracious character, so definitively revealed in the face of Christ, frees us from our shifting sentiments and religious fashions. As Luther put it so pointedly: "We see the deepest into God's heart when we see his Son on the cross."
Rom. 12:9-21 + The love of Christ frees us to love and serve one another.
Meeting us in his word and sacraments, that crucified and risen Christ frees us from the desperate need to be like God and raises us to live from the forgiveness of sins, not as a god but as children of God who "can experience deprivation and yet have joy and delight." In that encounter with the incarnate Lord who did not insist on equality with God but rather humbled himself for the sake of his neighbor, the church’s witness, mercy, and life together finds its most profound expression of the reality that transcends this life.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 12:00:25 Reply Private Reply
#13: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#11)
If you want me to comb through 153 links to assembke your point for you, my rate is $250 an hour.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 12:08:40 Reply Private Reply
#14: BorisY To: ConservingFreedom (#7)
PGMGN > TRUTH • 7 days ago
No, electing Trump or Clinton will not change the hearts of men. But the freedom to embrace and fully preach the Christian faith to the people of this county will be hogtied by a POTUS who is on record claiming that Churches need to change their position on abortion. Not to mention the wholesale importation of the tools of chastisement.
With each Our Father we pray to be delivered from temptation, not ushered into the end times because we're so prideful we think "we" can handle it.
So you may want to watch out for that presumption that the negation of common sense and the duty to engage where one can to effect the good is somehow entering through the narrow gate. In deed, such a toss off of duty under such flimsy pretext smacks of an absentee father who pretends he is helping his family by not working or rearing his children ... rather becoming a free-form monk --- just "praying" his days away.
free-form
monk
just
"praying"
his
days
away.
That's
the
libertarian
pot
smoking
holier
than
thou
way
love
boris
ps
Make
America
great
sober
again
http://www.wnd.com/2016/07/gop-millionaire-trump-worthy-of-christian-support/
BorisY posted on 2016-07-08 17:26:53 Reply Private Reply
#15: ConservingFreedom To: BorisY (#14)
More of your straw men: neither the article nor any poster on this thread has argued for abandoning the duty to engage where one can to effect the good, nor for becoming a free-form monk just praying his days away.
Do you think Trump needs forgiveness from God?
"I am not sure I have," Trump said when asked [at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, July 18, 2015] if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness. "I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't." - www.businessinsider.com/t...-like-to-have-to- ask-for-forgiveness-2016-1
"Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person." - www.christianpost.com/new...ave-to-repent-or-ask-for-forgiveness-if- i-am- not-making-mistakes-video-141856
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 18:10:55 Reply Private Reply
#16: BorisY To: ConservingFreedom (#15)
Christians
people
have
no
idea
what
salvation
eternity
is
even
the
most
' knowing '
HARD
working
are
hard
working
their
way
to
nothingness
oblivion
damnation
KNOWING
passing
judgement
is
two
different
things
I'm
more
inclined
to
go
by
what
a
person
does
than
what
they
say
Ghandi
said
< quote >
an
ounce
of
experience
is
worth
more
than
a
ton
of
advice
< quote / >
Make
America
great
working
again
love
boris
ps
many
are
called
few
are
chosen
pss
the
liberal
blather
an
ounce
of
dreams
pc
heads
up
is
worth
more
than
any
hard
work
whatsoever
share
the
wealth
big
brother
sistah
BorisY posted on 2016-07-08 21:44:24 Reply Private Reply
#17: ConservingFreedom To: BorisY (#16)
Are you suggesting that Trump has in deed asked God's forgiveness although he says otherwise?
"I am not sure I have," Trump said when asked [at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, July 18, 2015] if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness. "I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't." - www.businessinsider.com/t...-like-to-have-to- ask-for-forgiveness-2016-1
"Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person." - www.christianpost.com/new...ave-to-repent-or-ask-for-forgiveness-if- i-am- not-making-mistakes-video-141856
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-08 22:37:27 Reply Private Reply
#18: BorisY To: ConservingFreedom (#17)
Pope to poor: Pray for the conversion of the rich
Today Francis received a group of poor and homeless people from the Lyon region of France who are taking part in a pilgrimage led by Cardinal Barbarin
Francis during his audience with poor people (and their escorts) from the diocese of Lyon.
06/07/2016
mauro pianta
vatican city
Pray for the ... rich - the wise --- the hypocrites. * Pray that “the Lord may bring about a conversion in their hearts”. In fact, go even further: “give them a smile from the heart, wish them all the best and ask Jesus for their conversion”.
http://www.lastampa.it/2016/07/06/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/pope-to- poor-pray-for-the-conversion-of-the-rich-cHolPhxU8ZifDfhBDFRf4M/pagina.html
the
country
is
20
trillion
$ $ $ $ ' s
in
debt
half
of
what
the
govt
gives
away
lands
up
in
liquor
stores
casinos
cartel
caves
chronic
poverty
is
a
crime
sin
put
the
blame
where
the
blame
belongs
Make
America
call
a
spade
a
spade
great
again
love
boris
ps
fight
your
inner
demons
privately
not
publicly
* pope judas
pss
oh
yeah
pluralism
individualism
protestant
work
ethic
where
did
all
that
go
BorisY posted on 2016-07-09 16:59:57 Reply Private Reply
#19: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#13)
VxH posted on 2016-07-11 22:08:50 Reply Private Reply
#20: Titorite2 To: ConservingFreedom (#2)
Lol, dont we all. Blessed is the gift of grace.
Titorite2 posted on 2016-07-11 22:59:43 Reply Private Reply
#21: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#19)
Not the same as making a point. Whether you ever do is up to you.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-12 16:45:45 Reply Private Reply
#22: ConservingFreedom To: Titorite2 (#20)
He doesn't seem to think so:
"I am not sure I have," Trump said when asked [at the Family Leadership Summit in Ames, Iowa, July 18, 2015] if he'd ever asked God for forgiveness. "I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't." - www.businessinsider.com/t...-like-to-have-to- ask-for-forgiveness-2016-1
"Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?" asked Trump. "I work hard, I'm an honorable person." - www.christianpost.com/new...ave-to-repent-or-ask-for-forgiveness-if- i-am-not-making-mistakes-video-141856
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-12 16:47:19 Reply Private Reply
#23: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#21)
VxH posted on 2016-07-13 12:13:16 Reply Private Reply
#24: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#22)
Well, at least then - but hearts can be changed.
Just ask Nebuchadnezzar about that.
VxH posted on 2016-07-13 12:15:25 Reply Private Reply
#25: ConservingFreedom To: VxH (#23)
Got a point?
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-07-13 14:40:23 Reply Private Reply
#26: VxH To: ConservingFreedom (#25)
Good luck with that.
VxH posted on 2016-07-14 09:21:58 Reply Private Reply