Is the Constitution Libertarian?
Irene Warren
In honor of the 221st Constitutional Day, guest speaker Randy Barnett gave the Annual B. Kenneth Simon Lecture at the Cato Institute in an effort to set the record straight about whether the Constitution is libertarian.
Randy Barnett, a professor of legal theory at Georgetown University Law Center, explained that the Constitution is a governing document which governs those who are in power and who govern others. However, he explained that the Constitution also defines the limit of powers on those who govern us.
As it turns out, this is not an easy question to answer, Barnett said. There is a difference between constitutional interpretation and constitutional construction.
The original Constitution protected the rights of life, liberty and property against infringement by the federal government in two different ways: First, and foremost, Congress was not given a general legislative power, but only those legislative powers herein granted, referring to the powers that were specified in Article 1, Section 8, Barnett said. You dont need the Tenth Amendment; just look at the first sentence of Article 1 which defines legislative powers and limits those powers herein granted. It is striking how these powers, the powers on the list, Article 1, Section 8, avoid expressively restricting the rightful exercise of liberty.
Thus, Barnett explained that the first ten Amendments only restricted federal powers, but the states still retained their power to enslave some of their citizens. This, Barnett explained, caused the original Constitution to be greatly flawed from a libertarian perspective. However, he pointed out, fortunately, it was amended, which made it far more libertarian.
Barnett explained that modern libertarianism is based on five principles: defense of self and others; restitution; first possession; freedom of contract; and private property. Nevertheless, he explained that the original Constitution was far from a libertarian base since it allowed the states power to enslave people.
According to Barnett, there are only three powers on that list that might be construed as restricting the rightful exercise of liberty. Thus, Barnett explained that the Necessary and Proper clause, the power of Congress to promote science and useful arts, and the power of taxation rate high on the list in restricting individual liberties. For example, Barnett explained that the Necessary and Proper clause gives Congress the power to make all laws that are necessary and proper. Conversely, libertarians are divided about granting exclusive rights to some authors and inventors that might violate the rights of others through their writings and discoveries. Also, Barnett briefly explained that the power to tax can also pose a problem concerning liberties.
I would just merely say that whether a general power to tax does or does not violate the pertaining rights of the people to their property, it is certainly a restriction of liberty on a different order than a direct tax: regulation or restriction on the property rights that we have.
Of course the Supreme Court has upheld countless federal laws restricting liberty, primarily under the powers of Congress to regulate commerce, with an open-ended reading of the Necessary and Improper clause, Barnett said. Pretty much every Commerce clause case that has been used to restrict liberty has been done in combination with an over-broad reading of the Necessary and Proper clause; its done by not using the Commerce clause alone.
Barnett explained that the courts have upheld the power of Congress to spend tax revenues for purposes other than procuring its enumerated powers. With respect to federal power, the text of the original Constitution is far more libertarian than the retroactive Constitution enforced by the Supreme Court.
Barnett explained that the Thirteenth Amendment abolished slavery, but pointed out that it was the Fourteenth Amendment that radically altered the federalism of the original Constitution.
For the first time, Barnett explained, Congress and the courts could invalidate any state laws that abridged the privileges of immunities of the citizens of the United States. However, Barnett explained that we have more than the Constitution to ensure liberties now, because two years after the Constitution was enacted, the Bill of Rights was adopted onto the Constitution.
Barnett explained that the Bill of Rights gave American citizens express liberties; liberties that included freedom guarantees, such as Freedom of Speech, The Right to Bear Arms and The Right to Peaceably Assemble.
According to Barnett, The Bill of Rights provided different procedural assurances that laws would be applied accurately and fairly to particular individuals. Further, he added, All are consistent today with libertarian philosophy.
Barnett also indicated that he believed that the United States Constitution is the most liberal document ever adopted into law.
Irene Warren is an intern at the American Journalism Center
#1: tpaine To: All (#0)
Must be a typo.-- I'm sure he really meant: ---
The United States Constitution is the most libertarian document ever adopted into law.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-01 19:30:41 Reply Private Reply
#2: BorisY To: tpaine (#1)
CLASSICAL
liberal
Adam
Smith
(( invisible ))
(( hand ))
GOD
Ten
Commandments
Thou
shall
not
lie
steal
murder
covet
worship
false
gods
religions
science
esp
Marxism
evolution
based
on
DIVINE
law
design
NOT
anarchy
man
made
law
politics
mobacracy
degenerate
libertarian
degenerate
liberal
same
thing
Make
America
straight
great
again
love
boris
ps
the
... blind
leading
the
... blind
BorisY posted on 2016-07-01 19:48:50 Reply Private Reply
#3: misterwhite To: BorisY (#2)
I think it's Presbyterian.
misterwhite posted on 2016-07-01 20:04:14 Reply Private Reply
#4: BorisY To: misterwhite (#3)
Martin
Luther
reformation
separation
elimination
of
... tyrannies
Make
America
America
again
love
boris
ps
the
enlightenment
was
just
the
evolution
of
the
serial
battered
husband
syndrome
we
experience
via
... savages
continously
BorisY posted on 2016-07-01 20:18:58 Reply Private Reply
#5: Roscoe To: misterwhite (#3)
Bwahahahaha.
Roscoe posted on 2016-07-01 20:21:40 Reply Private Reply
#6: misterwhite To: Roscoe (#5)
misterwhite posted on 2016-07-01 20:29:12 Reply Private Reply
#7: BorisY To: All (#4)
sixties
social
science
text
books
mentioned
very
often
* individual *
* plural *
* property *
rights
meaning
man
w / o
his
property
has
no
freedom
such
is
the
case
any
more
a
guy
in
hand
cuffs
said
so
< quote >
is
this
STILL
America
I'm
in
< quote / >
on
60
minutes
going
to
jail
for
property
he
leased
for
trash
disposal
business
for
a
pollution
violition
he
wasn't
involved
in
Make
America
America
again
love
boris
BorisY posted on 2016-07-01 21:37:18 Reply Private Reply
#8: nolu chan To: tpaine (#1)
http://www.cato.org/multimedia/events/7th-annual-constitution-day-annual-b-kenneth-simon-lecture-constitution
It is at the end of his speech and is the second sentence spoken in the Conclusion which begins at 40:51. Barnett clearly said,
http://scholarship.law.georgetown.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1839&context=facpub
In his expanded published version, he tweaked the language slightly,
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-01 21:55:08 Reply Private Reply
#9: tpaine To: Roscoe, misterwhite, constitutional idiots (#5)
Thus, Barnett explained that the first ten Amendments only restricted federal powers, but the states still retained their power to enslave some of their citizens.
Maniacal laughter from roscoe, agreeing that States had the right to ignore individual rights. (and still do about guns, according to misterwhite)
He and misterwhite are anti-constitutional idiots.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-02 10:53:15 Reply Private Reply
#10: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#8)
He should tweak it again to say, "As written, the original Constitution of the United States, together with its first ten amendments, may be the most explicitly libertarian governing document ever written into law.
misterwhite posted on 2016-07-02 11:15:55 Reply Private Reply
#11: nolu chan To: tpaine, Roscoe, misterwhite (#9)
Randy E. Barnett, Constitutional Law, Cases in Context, Aspen Publishers, 2008, pg. 158, Section D, The Bill of Rights:
The people delegated certain powers to the Federal government, other powers to their State government, and retained the rest to themselves. The original Bill of Rights acted as a negative statement of restraint upon the Federal government. There was no grant of any new power therein.
Regarding the delegation of powers to the State governments, the people retained to themselves the power to effect such delegation. They had largely done so prior to the existence of the Constitution. They had largely adopted their own Bills of Rights prior to the Constitution. The Federal Bill of Rights was largely adapted from the Virginia Bill of Rights of June 12, 1776, which preceded the Virginia constitution of June 29, 1776, which followed the Virginia declaration of independence from Great Britain prefacing its constitution: "By which several acts of misrule, the government of this country, as formerly exercised under the crown of Great Britain, is TOTALLY DISSOLVED."
The people of 1789 or 1791 did not delegate to the Federal government the power to dictate what the powers of their State government would or would not be. The BoR delegated no powers to the Federal government, then or now. There was no enforcement mechanism akin to the 14th Amendment.
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-02 20:12:57 Reply Private Reply
#12: Roscoe To: misterwhite (#6)
Wouldn't make any difference to his willful ignorance.
Roscoe posted on 2016-07-02 22:15:14 Reply Private Reply
#13: tpaine To: nolu chan (#11)
He and misterwhite are anti-constitutional idiots.
Most people, yes, but roscoe, misterwhite, and YOU do not. ALL THREE OF YOU ARE GUNGRABBING ANTI-CONSTITUTIONALIST's.
Barnett would agree that many any people did NOT agree with the 'settled view', which was one of the causes of the civil war.
Your attempt to cite Barnett fails, as he does not side with you clowns on this issue. Barnett is a patriot.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-03 11:39:03 Reply Private Reply
#14: nolu chan To: tpaine, Roscoe, misterwhite (#13)
Gee, it look like you just called Randy Barnett a "GUNGRABBING ANTI-CONSTITUTIONALIST." He's the author of the quote.
It's from his big ol' lawbook, one of those things you don't read.
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-03 12:06:23 Reply Private Reply
#15: tpaine To: nolu chan (#14)
Barnett would agree that many people did NOT agree with the 'settled view', which was one of the causes of the civil war.
Your attempt to cite Barnett fails, as he does not side with you clowns on this issue. Barnett is a patriot.
Gee, it looks like you didn't read the last part of my reply, you idiot.
Or, is their something wrong with you, mentality, besides your idiocy?
Really, seek help.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-03 12:35:38 Reply Private Reply
#16: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#14)
He cites Barnett all the time when it supports his opinion.
misterwhite posted on 2016-07-03 12:54:53 Reply Private Reply
#17: tpaine To: misterwhite, roscoe, nolu Chan, Y'ALL (#16)
Damn right. I've read a lot of Barnetts writing, and I agree with his constitutional outlook, by and large.
It's obvious you anti-constitutionalists do not..
tpaine posted on 2016-07-03 13:02:25 Reply Private Reply
#18: Roscoe To: misterwhite (#16)
He cites Barnett even when it doesn't support his opinion.
Roscoe posted on 2016-07-03 13:10:40 Reply Private Reply
#19: nolu chan To: tpaine (#15)
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-03 14:07:01 Reply Private Reply
#20: tpaine To: nolu chan (#19)
Barnett would agree that many people did NOT agree with the 'settled view', which was one of the causes of the civil war.
Thus your attempt to cite Barnett fails, as he does not agree with you anti-constitutionalists.
Mocking you clowns is how I deal with it.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-03 15:46:33 Reply Private Reply
#21: nolu chan To: tpaine (#20)
Damn, if the settled view that the Bill of Rights did not apply to the States was a cause of the Civil War, the North must have lost. The BoR did not apply to the States when the U.S. Supreme Court handed down the still standing precedent in Barron v. Baltimore, 32 U.S. 243 (1833). That precedent stood throught the Civil War and it stands today.
See, for example:
Southport Lane Equity II, LLC v. Downey, 3:15-cv-0335-RCJ-VPC (D. Nev. Mar 30, 2016)
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-03 23:36:32 Reply Private Reply
#22: tpaine To: nolu chan (#21)
Most people, yes, but roscoe, misterwhite, and YOU do not. ALL THREE OF YOU ARE GUNGRABBING ANTI-CONSTITUTIONALIST's.
Barnett would agree that many any people did NOT agree with the 'settled view', which was one of the causes of the civil war.
Your attempt to cite Barnett fails, as he does not side with you clowns on this issue. Barnett is a patriot.
It was ONE of the causes, you idiot.
That was the 'settled opinion', but it was wrong, and in any case, even 'settled' opinions do not change our Constitution.
Our right to bear arms has never been subject to banns by ANY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-04 00:28:22 Reply Private Reply
#23: nolu chan To: tpaine (#22)
The Bill of Rights has never applied to the States. It did not apply then, and it does not apply now.
The 14th Amendment provides in relevant part:
It does not apply the BoR to the States, it applies "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" against the States. What are the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, as opposed to the priviliges and immunities of citizens of a member state of the United States?
By a process called incorporation, the Supreme Court has decided privileges and immunities are derived from being a citizen of the United States and incorporated them into the 14th Amendment. Those are applicable against the States via the 14th Amendment, not the Bill of Rights.
Which explains:
It is settled law almost two centuries old. The BoR does not to the States. The privileges and immunities of U.S. citizens apply to the States via the 14th Amendment.
Your absurd claim on gun rights shows your ignorance. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010) held that the Fourteenth Amendment made "the right to keep and bear arms fully applicable to the States."
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-07 20:33:37 Reply Private Reply
#24: tpaine To: nolu chan (#23)
It was ONE of the causes, you idiot.
That was the 'settled opinion', but it was wrong, and in any case, even 'settled' opinions do not change our Constitution.
Our right to bear arms has never been subject to banns by ANY LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT.
It applies to States in it's words: ----
--- "nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property" ---
Guns are property...
tpaine posted on 2016-07-07 21:17:26 Reply Private Reply
#25: nolu chan To: tpaine (#24)
tpaine #24 quoting from the 14th Amendment of 1868, leaving out the phrase "without due process of law." If this were the people's protection of the RKBA, any state could take your guns after establishing the process it deemed due for doing so. The RKBA would be the same as the right pertaining to all ordinary property.
To be sure, the 14th Amendment did nothing prior to 1868.
Of course, various rights were incorporated after the 14th Amendment was adopted. This is as I said, and contrary to your ignorant blathering that the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
The Bill of Rights has never applied to the States. It did not apply then, and it does not apply now.
The 14th Amendment provides in relevant part:
It does not apply the BoR to the States, it applies "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" against the States. What are the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, as opposed to the priviliges and immunities of citizens of a member state of the United States?
By a process called incorporation, the Supreme Court has decided privileges and immunities are derived from being a citizen of the United States and incorporated them into the 14th Amendment. Those are applicable against the States via the 14th Amendment, not the Bill of Rights.
Which explains:
It is settled law almost two centuries old. The BoR does not apply to the States. The privileges and immunities of U.S. citizens apply to the States via the 14th Amendment.
Your absurd claim on gun rights shows your ignorance. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010) held that the Fourteenth Amendment made "the right to keep and bear arms fully applicable to the States."
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-10 20:25:09 Reply Private Reply
#26: tpaine To: nolu chan (#25)
Opinions do not change our Constitution. -- And you are quite mad to insist they do.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-10 20:45:49 Reply Private Reply
#27: nolu chan To: tpaine (#26)
On the contrary, I post a different court opinion with a different citation every time. it's just that there are so many cases over a period of almost two centuries, and they all say your crap has no merit.
tpaine #24 quoting from the 14th Amendment of 1868, leaving out the phrase "without due process of law." If this were the people's protection of the RKBA, any state could take your guns after establishing the process it deemed due for doing so. The RKBA would be the same as the right pertaining to all ordinary property.
To be sure, the 14th Amendment did nothing prior to 1868.
Of course, various rights were incorporated after the 14th Amendment was adopted. This is as I said, and contrary to your ignorant blathering that the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
The Bill of Rights has never applied to the States. It did not apply then, and it does not apply now.
The 14th Amendment provides in relevant part:
It does not apply the BoR to the States, it applies "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" against the States. What are the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, as opposed to the priviliges and immunities of citizens of a member state of the United States?
By a process called incorporation, the Supreme Court has decided privileges and immunities are derived from being a citizen of the United States and incorporated them into the 14th Amendment. Those are applicable against the States via the 14th Amendment, not the Bill of Rights.
Which explains:
Henry A. v. Willden, 2:10-cv-00528-RCJ-PAL (D. Nev. Feb 27, 2013)
It is settled law almost two centuries old. The BoR does not apply to the States. The privileges and immunities of U.S. citizens apply to the States via the 14th Amendment.
Your absurd claim on gun rights shows your ignorance. McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010) held that the Fourteenth Amendment made "the right to keep and bear arms fully applicable to the States."
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-11 13:31:05 Reply Private Reply
#28: tpaine To: nolu chan (#27)
Opinions do not change our Constitution. -- And you are quite mad to insist they do.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-11 14:41:36 Reply Private Reply
#29: nolu chan To: tpaine (#28)
On the contrary, I post a different court opinion with a different citation every time. it's just that there are so many cases over a period of almost two centuries, and they all say your crap has no merit.
tpaine #24 quoting from the 14th Amendment of 1868, leaving out the phrase "without due process of law." If this were the people's protection of the RKBA, any state could take your guns after establishing the process it deemed due for doing so. The RKBA would be the same as the right pertaining to all ordinary property.
To be sure, the 14th Amendment did nothing prior to 1868.
Of course, various rights were incorporated after the 14th Amendment was adopted. This is as I said, and contrary to your ignorant blathering that the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
The Bill of Rights has never applied to the States. It did not apply then, and it does not apply now.
The 14th Amendment provides in relevant part:
It does not apply the BoR to the States, it applies "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" against the States. What are the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, as opposed to the priviliges and immunities of citizens of a member state of the United States?
By a process called incorporation, the Supreme Court has decided privileges and immunities are derived from being a citizen of the United States and incorporated them into the 14th Amendment. Those are applicable against the States via the 14th Amendment, not the Bill of Rights.
Which explains:
BARTEE v. YANOFF, (E.D.Pa. 1981), 514 F. Supp. 96 (E.D. Pa. 1981), n. 3
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-12 15:35:15 Reply Private Reply
#30: tpaine To: nolu chan, You keep posting your same tired opinions, over and over, Opinions do not change our Constitution. -- And you are quite mad to insist they do. (#29)
Opinions do not change our Constitution. -- And you are quite mad to insist they do.
tpaine posted on 2016-07-12 15:51:17 Reply Private Reply
#31: nolu chan To: tpaine (#30)
On the contrary, I post a different court opinion with a different citation every time. it's just that there are so many cases over a period of almost two centuries, and they all say your crap has no merit.
tpaine #24 quoting from the 14th Amendment of 1868, leaving out the phrase "without due process of law." If this were the people's protection of the RKBA, any state could take your guns after establishing the process it deemed due for doing so. The RKBA would be the same as the right pertaining to all ordinary property.
To be sure, the 14th Amendment did nothing prior to 1868.
Of course, various rights were incorporated after the 14th Amendment was adopted. This is as I said, and contrary to your ignorant blathering that the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
The Bill of Rights has never applied to the States. It did not apply then, and it does not apply now.
The 14th Amendment provides in relevant part:
It does not apply the BoR to the States, it applies "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" against the States. What are the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, as opposed to the priviliges and immunities of citizens of a member state of the United States?
By a process called incorporation, the Supreme Court has decided privileges and immunities are derived from being a citizen of the United States and incorporated them into the 14th Amendment. Those are applicable against the States via the 14th Amendment, not the Bill of Rights.
Which explains:
Bell v. Hood, 71 F. Supp. 813 (S.D. Cal. 1947)
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-13 12:50:25 Reply Private Reply
#32: tpaine To: nolu chan (#31)
Why does he WANT to give that power to the supreme court?
Because that's what socialists do?
tpaine posted on 2016-07-14 18:11:36 Reply Private Reply
#33: nolu chan To: tpaine (#30)
On the contrary, I post a different court opinion with a different citation every time. it's just that there are so many cases over a period of almost two centuries, and they all say your crap has no merit.
tpaine #24 quoting from the 14th Amendment of 1868, leaving out the phrase "without due process of law." If this were the people's protection of the RKBA, any state could take your guns after establishing the process it deemed due for doing so. The RKBA would be the same as the right pertaining to all ordinary property.
To be sure, the 14th Amendment did nothing prior to 1868.
Of course, various rights were incorporated after the 14th Amendment was adopted. This is as I said, and contrary to your ignorant blathering that the Bill of Rights applied to the States.
The Bill of Rights has never applied to the States. It did not apply then, and it does not apply now.
The 14th Amendment provides in relevant part:
It does not apply the BoR to the States, it applies "the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" against the States. What are the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States, as opposed to the priviliges and immunities of citizens of a member state of the United States?
By a process called incorporation, the Supreme Court has decided privileges and immunities are derived from being a citizen of the United States and incorporated them into the 14th Amendment. Those are applicable against the States via the 14th Amendment, not the Bill of Rights.
Which explains:
Vidal v. Garcia-Padilla, CIVIL NO. 14-1253 (PG) (D.P.R. Mar 08, 2016)
nolu chan posted on 2016-07-15 00:34:47 Reply Private Reply
#34: tpaine To: Obsessive compulsive nolu chan, cannot stop spam. (#33)
Poor sad nolu, obsessed with trying to prove that SCOTUS opinions change our Constitution.
Why does he WANT to give that power to the supreme court?
Because that's what socialists do?
tpaine posted on 2016-07-17 12:42:09 Reply Private Reply
#35: nolu chan To: tpaine (#34)
Poor sad yukon/tpaine in the ass, trapped like the rat that he is, has nothing better do than create and to address his pathetic non-responsive posts to very long non-existent handles which will not show up in any ping list.
Future responses have been consolidated onto a single thread. See:
http://www2.libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=46857&Disp=77#C77
For examples of his psychosis using non-existent handles, see:
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nolu chan posted on 2016-07-26 12:40:19 Reply Private Reply