A Revision on the Bill of Rights, Part III
04/26/2016 01:07 pm ET 2.5 K
Justin Curmi
A blogger that seeks to engage people in thought and conversation through presenting new views to matters, new or old.
A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The Second Amendment is highly contested. There is no doubt that people do have the right to carry and have a stockpile of guns (the right of the people to keep and bear arms) and a state has the right to organize a well-regulated Militia. But, the main issue is on the right to self-defend with a firearm.
The main problem with the notion of self-defense is it imposes on justice, for everyone has the right for a fair trial. Therefore, using a firearm to defend oneself is not legal because if the attacker is killed, he or she is devoid of his or her rights. In addition, ones mental capacity is a major factor in deciding whether a man or woman has the right to have a firearm. There are two reasons for ensuring mental capacity. First, one of the Five Aims is to ensure domestic tranquility and there can be no tranquility if one does not have the capacity. Second, if ones brain is distorting his or her reality, they do not have the proper reasoning and deduction skills to use a firearm.
Therefore, if we ponder and meditate on the recent events in news about guns, it would be obvious that the current state is incorrect. A gun for civilians is a weapon for a revolution and not for ordinary use. The belief that a gun is a useful tool to protect one is counterintuitive because guns get into the hands of people who use them for horrible reasons. In addition, there are reasons why cops are trained to use a firearm in stressful situations. It is not to keep their mind at ease or anything of that sort, but to be able to fire accurately at the target in the correct location. It is immensely difficult to fire when under pressure. Moreover, one may argue this is an analogous argument and yes it is because the United States government is lobbied to not study or fund research that observes the effects of guns. This cripples the chance of evaluating a proper policy to deal with gun violence. But, there was one study by ABC, which observed using guns in a classroom. All the participations poorly performed at the mock situation.
Once again, if there is an argument in the reasoning of this amendment and others, one must filter it through the Five Aims of the USA and the Bill of Rights. This is to ensure that any argument can be answered, avoiding a political divide.
Poster Comment:
What in hell is the "Five Aims of the USA"?
#1: ConservingFreedom To: tpaine (#0)
English the language firstly I not have.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-05-04 21:58:21 Reply Private Reply
#2: ConservingFreedom To: tpaine (#0)
Defined in Part I: "establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity".
Part I ends with this gem: "Furthermore, one must understand the Bill of Rights to complete the check and balance system in the Constitution of the USA. These rights give certain powers to an individual and withhold certain powers from the person."
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-05-04 22:01:57 Reply Private Reply
#3: nolu chan To: tpaine (#0)
A state has the right to a well-regulated, UNorganized Militia, comprised of all its age-eligible able bodied citizens.
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-04 23:22:18 Reply Private Reply
#4: nolu chan To: tpaine (#0)
The Five Aims of the USA is an apparent arithmetically challenged reference to the Preamble to the Constitution, written by the committee on style, and not a part of the Constitution adopted at the Convention.
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-04 23:27:47 Reply Private Reply
#5: nolu chan To: tpaine (#0)
A gun for civilians is a protected right for self-defence.
The second amendment establishes no right, it forbids the Federal government from infringing upon a pre-existing right.
The pre-existing right was established in English common law long before the creation of the Constitution.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/blackstone_bk1ch1.asp
Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England
Book the First - Chapter the First: Of the Absolute Rights of Individuals (1765)
Gun do get into the hands of people who use them for horrible reasons. So do knives, yet we are not required to forego knives.
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-04 23:52:53 Reply Private Reply
#6: nolu chan To: tpaine (#0)
Nothings needs to be filtered through the Five Aims of the USA. The preamble is a rhetorical flourish appended by the Committee on Style after the Convention which adopted the Articles. The preamble is of no legal significance whatever.
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-04 23:56:13 Reply Private Reply
#7: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#3)
Sure. The state can do whatever it wants. But if the state wants second amendment protection for their Milita, that Militia needs to be well-regulated -- -- -- meaning organized, armed and disciplined with officers appointed by the state.
misterwhite posted on 2016-05-05 09:52:53 Reply Private Reply
#8: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#5)
When written, not by the second amendment. As evidenced in Miller, the only weapons protected by the second amendment were those "suitable for use" by a state Militia.
State constitutions protected the individual right of civilians to keep and bear arms. States have always (until Heller) defined who may own weapons, what kind of weapons, and how they may be used. Which is why the gun laws in each state were different.
misterwhite posted on 2016-05-05 10:01:47 Reply Private Reply
#9: tpaine To: misterwhite, defends statism, y'all (#7)
ALL levels of gov't are bound by our Constitution, and can NOT do what they "want".
--- Which includes assuming that the state has the power to appoint officers in our military organizations.. -- A power best divided.
Misterwhite, of course, advocates that the state be ALL powerfull...
tpaine posted on 2016-05-05 10:20:37 Reply Private Reply
#10: Roscoe To: misterwhite (#8)
Can't have that. Freedom means centralized power.
Roscoe posted on 2016-05-05 10:21:16 Reply Private Reply
#11: Deckard To: misterwhite (#7)
Attaboy!
That one sentence demonstrates your totalitarian bent.
Deckard posted on 2016-05-05 10:26:49 Reply Private Reply
#12: tpaine To: Nolu Chan, Y'ALL (#8)
Misterwhite once again chants the anti-gun statist mantra.
Will he ever admit that some States have NOT protected our rights to arms?
Whatta weirdo..
tpaine posted on 2016-05-05 10:28:47 Reply Private Reply
#13: misterwhite To: Deckard (#11)
Taken out of context it demonstrates diddly-squat.
In context it means what it says. A state can certainly have an "unorganized" militia.
misterwhite posted on 2016-05-05 10:35:36 Reply Private Reply
#14: tpaine To: Roscoe, and misterwhite, anti-constitutional advocates (#10)
Centralized power by governments is NOT a goal of our Constitution.
Which is why the document ensures that ALL levels of government in our republic are restrained by its provisions..
tpaine posted on 2016-05-05 10:39:12 Reply Private Reply
#15: ConservingFreedom To: nolu chan (#4)
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-05-05 11:37:03 Reply Private Reply
#16: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#7)
No, absolutely not. The Second Amendment pertains to the UNorganized militia.
The well-regulated militia is not the organized militia.
Regarding the meaning of "well regulated," it is useful to consult 10 U.S.C. 311 to learn that, "The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard."
Nobody registers with the militia as they are automatically in the militia per statute.
Moreover, it is unconstitutional to enact any form of state or federal law that conflicts with the constitutional provision, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
http://www.constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2012/title-10/subtitle-a/part-i/chapter-13/section-311/
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-05 23:18:26 Reply Private Reply
#17: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#8)
Nonsense. The Second Amendment created no right to keep and bear arms. It protected a pre-existing right existing in the people by explicitly withholding from the Federal government, any power or authority to infringe upon that pre-existing right.
Your interpretation of Miller (1939) is nonsense, directly refuted by the holding in Heller in 2008.
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/000/07-290.html
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-05 23:40:21 Reply Private Reply
#18: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#17)
Correct. I never said it did.
"It protected a pre-existing right existing in the people ..."
It protected the pre-existing right for some people, not everyone.
"Your interpretation of Miller (1939) is nonsense, directly refuted by the holding in Heller in 2008."
My interpretation of Miller is 100% correct as evidenced by what the court actually ruled. Heller ignored Miller and was a horrible decision.
"United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes."
Which the Heller court totally ignored. The Miller decision states that the ONLY weapons protected are those used by the military. The court's only question was if the sawed-off shotgun qualified as military arms.
misterwhite posted on 2016-05-06 09:12:32 Reply Private Reply
#19: misterwhite To: nolu chan (#16)
I'm referring to conditions as they were when the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written.
The military was the state militias. There was only one type of state militia and it was organized under the Militia Act of 1792. The second amendment was written to protect those state militias and their arms from federal infringement, given that the states feared a federal army.
misterwhite posted on 2016-05-06 09:25:12 Reply Private Reply
#20: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#18)
Stop being absurd.
Oh nonsense. Heller is the binding precedent and explained why Miller is bullshit to cite as precedent as you have done.
http://laws.findlaw.com/us/000/07-290.html
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER
certiorari to the united states court of appeals for the district of columbia circuit
No. 07-290. Argued March 18, 2008--Decided June 26, 2008
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-06 12:26:20 Reply Private Reply
#21: ConservingFreedom To: nolu chan (#20)
I like the use of the word "crooks" in a Supreme Court decision.
ConservingFreedom posted on 2016-05-06 12:41:16 Reply Private Reply
#22: nolu chan To: misterwhite (#19)
The Militia Act of 1792 did not exist when the Second Amendment was ratified in 1791, and said Militia Act was repealed in its entirety in 1795.
At the time of the Framing and ratification of the Bill of Rights, the militia was viewed as a force for the people to defend against potential future usurpations of the federal government.
Madison, Federalist 46, re the Militia
The Militia Act of May 8, 1792 (repealed 1795).
Compare to current Federal law:
http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2012/title-10/subtitle-a/part-i/chapter-13/section-311/
http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2012/title-10/subtitle-a/part-i/chapter-13/section-312/
nolu chan posted on 2016-05-06 12:54:40 Reply Private Reply