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Charles Cooke calls this an ideological Turing test, i.e. a question whose answer reveals how plausible it is that Trump really is who he claims to be. The standard answer from nearly all serious pro-lifers is that its the abortionist, not his patient, who should be sanctioned if and when abortion is banned. The March of Life explains why:
Ted Cruz, when hes inevitably asked about this now, will give some variation of that same response. Trump, whom his conservative critics suspect of being an opportunist on abortion rather than committed to the cause, went a different route. You can almost see the wheels turning in his head here: He knows, as a political matter, that he cant let Cruz get to his right on abortion. Republicans will let him slide on a lot a lot but if he gives them reason to think hes BSing them on an issue at the very core of social conservatism, it could give Cruz the break he needs to take off. And so, when he gets the question from Matthews about what to do with women who insist on having abortions in a hypothetical future where the practice is banned, he goes with his gut and his gut is stay to the right. So sure, lets punish women for abortion. This is the message the partys carrying into the general election against the first woman major-party nominee, huh? By a guy whos already having major problems polling among women, no less. Its easy to understand how an amateur would stumble into this answer, writes Matt Lewis, but why would you want to nominate an amateur?
Trumps already trying to walk it back even though the townhall with Matthews from which this was clipped hasnt aired yet:
Hillarys already attacking him over it. So is Team Cruz, as youll see in the second clip below. Trump can run from it but its on tape and every down-ballot Republican will wear it now if hes the nominee. And the best part, as one Twitter pal said, is that Trump will eventually (eventually as in probably within the next few hours) deny that he ever said it to begin with. Still think this is all part of a master strategy or could it be that he really is winging it?
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Poster Comment:
The next Trump scandal.This will keep Vannity and Coulter and the other Mini-Me's busy Trumpsplaining it away for the next few days.
#61: A K A Stone To: Deckard (#57)
I don't agree with gay marriage but I don't support murdering anyone.
I support the death penalty for abortion.
If it is a life then it is murder. That is science.
You sound like you come from the dark ages.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:36:54 Reply Private Reply
#62: A K A Stone To: Deckard (#60)
That is a stupid question. No on is born queer.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:37:29 Reply Private Reply
#63: Deckard To: TooConservative (#59)
Don't confuse him with facts - he's on a roll.
Deckard posted on 2016-03-30 19:37:42 Reply Private Reply
#64: Tooconservative To: hondo68 (#58)
Won't you have to go after the bank or credit card company that paid for the transaction as well?
We're gonna need a lot more execution chambers.
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-30 19:38:01 Reply Private Reply
#65: A K A Stone To: TooConservative (#59)
Well you have to respect that about them. They get something right.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:38:04 Reply Private Reply
#66: Deckard To: A K A Stone (#65)
Along with the faggot killing too, right?
Deckard posted on 2016-03-30 19:39:27 Reply Private Reply
#67: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#51)
And what if he decides to correct his "mistake" of being pro-life 4 hours after he is sworn in as prez? You'll be okay with that too?
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-30 19:39:41 Reply Private Reply
#68: misterwhite To: goodnessmarlok (#56)
Trump came out with a written statement clarifying his position. I would think that would settle the issue.
But Too Conservative doesn't want to let it go.
misterwhite posted on 2016-03-30 19:41:39 Reply Private Reply
#69: A K A Stone To: Deckard (#66)
Wrong.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:41:50 Reply Private Reply
#70: A K A Stone To: TooConservative (#67)
There you go making stuff up again.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:42:58 Reply Private Reply
#71: Tooconservative To: A K A Stone (#70)
Not at all.
Trump just flipped from punish-the-woman to punish-the-abortionist in less than 4 hours. He has a track record of major flipflopping on this and many other issues.
You just don't like it when someone notices this and points it out.
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-30 19:46:43 Reply Private Reply
#72: misterwhite To: TooConservative (#67)
Are you concerned that he might?
All right. I'll play your stupid game. What if he did? He calls a press conference and says he's pro-choice. What changes? Nothing.
Obama was pro-choice. What changed? Nothing.
Hey, Bush was pro-life. What changed? Nothing.
Take your "issue" and slink away. Nothing will change without Roe v Wade being overturned, and no President has that power.
misterwhite posted on 2016-03-30 19:48:03 Reply Private Reply
#73: A K A Stone To: TooConservative (#71)
Trump 2016
Ok, I'll admit it I can be an asshole too.
I dish it out to you and you take it.
I guess you're ok.
We're all just passionate about our beliefs.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:51:33 Reply Private Reply
#74: A K A Stone To: tooconservative (#73)
Oh well.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:52:06 Reply Private Reply
#75: A K A Stone To: misterwhite (#72)
All the president has to do is start prosecuting.
They do have the power.
Appoint a pit bull pro life attorney general.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:53:21 Reply Private Reply
#76: A K A Stone To: misterwhite (#72)
Is abortion murder?
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 19:53:48 Reply Private Reply
#77: goodnessmarlok To: Vicomte13 (#76)
goodnessmarlok posted on 2016-03-30 20:18:06 Reply Private Reply
#78: Vicomte13 To: goodnessmarlok (#77)
He didn't. He changed what he said in haste, to make it more reasonable-sounding.
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 20:23:29 Reply Private Reply
#79: goodnessmarlok To: Vicomte13 (#78)
goodnessmarlok posted on 2016-03-30 20:31:02 Reply Private Reply
#80: Vicomte13 To: misterwhite (#72)
The next President will have that power.
There is a vacancy on the Supreme Court. Three of the sitting justices, two liberal Democrats and the most liberal Republican, are over 80.
If Trump is elected, he will have the opportunity to appoint a pro-life justice to the Supremes. He can assure that the justice by applying a LITMUS TEST to each nominee. Democrats do. Republicans can.
No appointments to the Supreme Court who are not passionate pro-lifers.
So, if Scalia is replaced with a passionate pro-lifer, what do you have?
You have Thomas, who is pro-life. You have Alito, who is probably pro-life. You have Kennedy, who is not, but who is over 80. And you have Roberts, who is a treasonous crapweasel we can assume is not pro-life. that will make three pro-lifers on the court, one of them certain.
Ginsburg, Breyer or Kennedy will go next, either in death, or retirement. Litmus tedst. Now you have two certain pro-lifers (the new one and the Scalia replacement), and two probably (Thomas and Alito).
We know that Roberts can be bought and turned by pressure, and at that point, he'll be on a Republican court in a Republican-run country. He may decide to move back. There's your five.
But if not, then the next of the aged trio goes, and one more sure pro-life vote comes on. Now you have three certains, two probables and Roberts. That's 6-3.
The last of the aged fogeys goes. Litmus test. Now you have FOUR certains, two probables, and Roberts. 7-2.
That pretty much guarantees Roe is overturned during the next President's two terms, if the President is Trump, and if he applies a litmus test.
The President can control this process because of the ages and states of health of three ancient supremes, plus a vacancy.
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 20:31:40 Reply Private Reply
#81: Vicomte13 To: goodnessmarlok (#79)
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 20:32:38 Reply Private Reply
#82: Vicomte13 To: hondo68 (#58)
Of course.
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 20:34:30 Reply Private Reply
#83: Vicomte13 To: TooConservative (#67)
Then he'll be like every other fucking Republican since Nixon, won't he?
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 20:35:49 Reply Private Reply
#84: Tooconservative To: Vicomte13 (#83)
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-30 20:45:46 Reply Private Reply
#85: A K A Stone To: Vicomte13 (#80)
Hopefully Trump delivers. It isn't a sure thing. You know that right?
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 20:55:26 Reply Private Reply
#86: A K A Stone To: TooConservative (#84)
Who works harder you or Trump?
I say Trump does. You sit and play on the internet. Trump does things like build sky scrapers. Businesses.
It is a joke that you think he is a joke. You're not being honest. Another lie.
It is ok to disagree. But why do you have to make stuff up/lie?
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-30 20:57:01 Reply Private Reply
#87: Fred Mertz To: Stoner (#10)
I'm trying to think of that Vermont guy that was crucified a number of years ago.
It wasn't Sanders. I guess I'll look it up now.
Howard Dean...the media made him out to be a lunatic with his maniacal laugh at a rally. Look it up.
This could be Trump's moment now.
Fred Mertz posted on 2016-03-30 21:47:45 Reply Private Reply
#88: redleghunter To: TooConservative, rlk (#9)
I understand the pro life position politically. However rlk is correct legally and logically.
If I paid you to off someone you would be clearly the murderer and I would be guilty of conspiracy to murder or complicit.
A woman seeks out an abortionist to kill her child. That is the first law violated if Roe overturned. The second law broken by the woman would be obtaining an illegal medical procedure.
Now there are many cases where a battered woman hired another to kill the battering husband. Some of those women are not convicted due to mental and physical trauma.
However logically Trump is accurate. If a woman seeks an illegal abortion then she is involved in premeditated murder.
redleghunter posted on 2016-03-30 22:29:40 Reply Private Reply
#89: Vicomte13 To: TooConservative (#84)
There is no pretense. I do not think Trump is a joke. I think he's the real deal.
Remember, when I said this before you pointed out that you had really lost respect for my intelligence because I said that.
Well, here I am, the same droolin' rube you put down before, thinking the same thing I thought before, and saying it the same way I said it before: I believe Donald Trump is telling the truth about what he is. I think he has laid out an articulate and consistent set of policies. I think that people who don't hear it or see it or understand it do, in fact, hear it and see it, they just don't believe him.
Trump is the only Republican for whom I can vote.
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 23:11:06 Reply Private Reply
#90: Vicomte13 To: A K A Stone (#85)
In this life, nothing is sure but death and taxes, but I think Trump will deliver. I'm sure that none of the other Republicans will deliver anything I want.
I'm sure that Hillary and Bernie will deliver for their side.
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 23:11:59 Reply Private Reply
#91: Vicomte13 To: Fred Mertz (#87)
It could be, but it isn't.
The Republicans keep looking for a deus ex machina to save them from the big bad Trump. There will be none, and in retrospect they'll be happy Trump won.
Vicomte13 posted on 2016-03-30 23:13:49 Reply Private Reply
#92: SOSO To: Vicomte13, TooConservative (#89)
Well Elvis has just re-entered the building again.
"Trump is the only Republican for whom I can vote."
That's because Trump is no REP, in this regard he is just like Ron Paul. Given that you hate the REP Party it comes as no surprise that you still will not vote for one.
SOSO posted on 2016-03-30 23:26:47 Reply Private Reply
#93: SOSO To: rlk, TooConservative (#2)
Then why did Trump go into full reverse mode in just a couple of hours after he made the comment?
There is no hope for a Trump dupe.
SOSO posted on 2016-03-30 23:34:11 Reply Private Reply
#94: rlk To: SOSO (#93)
Send me a message of celebration when you learn how to read.
rlk posted on 2016-03-31 00:43:47 Reply Private Reply
#95: SOSO To: rlk (#94)
Send me a message when you get some understanding of the language. It is very simple for all but the simple minded. Trump reverse himself on this very legitimate question about a very contentious issue in less than a few hours once he saw how he sh*t hit the fan. What courage of his convictions this con artist has, eh? The man has, and always did have, flexible principles. He changes his position as lest as often as you change your underwear.
There is no hope for a Trump dupe.
SOSO posted on 2016-03-31 01:20:41 Reply Private Reply
#96: SOSO To: rlk (#94)
"GREEN BAY, Wisconsin After saying on Wednesday that he believes there should be punishment for women who undergo abortions if the procedure was outlawed, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump walked back the comment hours later.
In an exclusive interview with MSNBC's Chris Matthews, the GOP front-runner described himself multiple times as "pro-life" but struggled to define what the legal ramifications of that position should be. When continually pressed for what the answer is regarding punishing women who would break any theoretical ban, Trump said the "answer is that there has to be some form of punishment, yeah."
Later in the day, his campaign released a statement refocusing who would be punished should abortion become illegal. "If Congress were to pass legislation making abortion illegal and the federal courts upheld this legislation, or any state were permitted to ban abortion under state and federal law, the doctor or any other person performing this illegal act upon a woman would be held legally responsible, not the woman," the statement said. "The woman is a victim in this case as is the life in her womb. My position has not changed like Ronald Reagan, I am pro-life with exceptions."
HINT: The weak kneed con man screwed the pooch and had to publically eat his words hoping for forgiveness. Hillary has already kicked mud in his face over this (as well as the other REP candidates) and she will continue to sh*t on him and make him bark like a dog.
There is no hope for a Trump dupe.
SOSO posted on 2016-03-31 01:30:01 Reply Private Reply
#97: Tooconservative To: redleghunter (#88)
Then why did he flipflop and decide the woman should not be punished in only a few hours?
So did Trump have it right to begin with and now he's punking out to let these millions of women off the hook or is he correct now about the abortionist is the criminal?
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-31 02:07:54 Reply Private Reply
#98: redleghunter To: TooConservative (#97)
redleghunter posted on 2016-03-31 02:48:20 Reply Private Reply
#99: rlk To: SOSO (#95)
Please study the employment and interpretation of the conditional syllogism: If A, then B. If, and only if A, then B. Etc. You talk like a man with a wooden asshole.
rlk posted on 2016-03-31 03:12:59 Reply Private Reply
#100: Tooconservative To: redleghunter (#98)
I'm not sure Trump realizes he has crossed the pro-lifers in a way that deeply offends them. Over the years, I've noticed that offending pro-lifers or pro-gunners in a campaign is almost invariably fatal to a candidate. Giuliani in 2008 was a perfect example of this but far from the only one.
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-31 07:01:59 Reply Private Reply
#101: A K A Stone To: TooConservative (#100)
You don't speak for pro life people. You're not.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-31 07:10:06 Reply Private Reply
#102: Tooconservative To: A K A Stone (#101)
I don't claim to speak for them.
But I have noticed how they punish any deviation from their policy positions with many other candidates.
Crossing the pro-lifers is generally fatal to a candidate. Trump hadn't crossed them in this campaign until now.
Generally, the pro-lifers remain friendly and open to the idea of even rabidly former pro-abortion candidates like Trump or Giuliani. But one major deviation and they do turn on that new friend. And they have their own entire communications network outside the usual media, all female-dominated. You don't see it coming until it hits your candidate over the head like a 2x4.
We'll see if Trump did offend them deeply. It won't take long for the polls to show it.
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-31 08:07:49 Reply Private Reply
#103: misterwhite To: A K A Stone (#75)
Prosecuting who for what? Are you saying the President has the power to make abortion illegal and can start arresting and prosecuting people?
misterwhite posted on 2016-03-31 08:30:51 Reply Private Reply
#104: misterwhite To: Vicomte13 (#80)
He can submit his choice to the Senate, but that's about it. If Obama had the power to appoint a Supreme Court justice, Garland would be hearing cases.
misterwhite posted on 2016-03-31 08:35:26 Reply Private Reply
#105: misterwhite To: TooConservative (#102)
When did he cross them -- when he was for or against punishing women who murder their babies?
misterwhite posted on 2016-03-31 08:40:14 Reply Private Reply
#106: A K A Stone To: misterwhite (#103)
Murderers for murdering. Accessories to murder for accessories for murder. Hitmen for murder.
It is the truth that it is murder.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-31 08:44:53 Reply Private Reply
#107: A K A Stone To: TooConservative (#102)
100 percent of people who are truly pro life and think abortion is murder would expect to see punishment for the crime of murder.
I'm not talking about fake pro lifers like you appear to be.
A K A Stone posted on 2016-03-31 08:46:13 Reply Private Reply
#108: Tooconservative To: misterwhite (#105)
This particular policy item was hotly debated over the years in the pro-life organizations. Overwhelmingly, they reject any punish-the-woman policy.
In the meantime, the Dims constantly accuse us of wanting to punish the woman even though we have denied it for decades. They still use it as part of their War On Women strategy.
Certainly, the Dims will use this against Trump if he is the nominee but they will also use it against all GOP candidates.
This is why you've never heard any credible GOP candidate ever suggest a punish-the-woman policy. And that is why I think the women who quietly dominate the pro-life movement nationally may react very negatively toward Trump. This argument is long over. Until Trump opened this can of worms by running his big blabbermouth yesterday. Trump's gift to the Lefties and their propaganda. Less remarked upon is Trump mentioning that any change in abortion law would inevitably result in the return of back-alley abortions, yet another pernicious myth that will certainly rile the pro-lifers.
The nicest thing you can say of Trump's remark is he was ignorant. That's not a very positive quality.
If you're looking for signs that Trump has truly riled the pro-lifers, I'd watch for any statements about Trump's remarks by Phyllis Schlafly of Eagle Forum, the various state and national Right To Life orgs and the newer Susan B. Anthony List activists (the younger generation of pro-life women).
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-31 09:10:19 Reply Private Reply
#109: Tooconservative To: A K A Stone (#107)
Even here, there are only 3 of you. That should give you pause.
I'd be surprised if there are even 100 thousand such voters in the entire country.
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-31 09:11:12 Reply Private Reply
#110: Tooconservative To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#106)
So you really do want to execute the mother but only give the abortionist a prison sentence.
Tooconservative posted on 2016-03-31 09:12:47 Reply Private Reply