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Title: 'I'd do it again' former President Bush tells Grand Rapids crowd about waterboarding terrorists
Source: Grand Rapids Free Press
URL Source: http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rap ... _it_again_former_presiden.html
Published: Jun 3, 2010
Author: Ted Roelofs
Post Date: 2010-06-03 14:27:03 by no gnu taxes
Keywords: None
Views: 739
Comments: 47

Former President George W. Bush was by turns affable, relaxed -- and deadly serious in his local appearance Wednesday.

"Yeah, we water-boarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed," Bush said of the terrorist who master-minded the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington. He said that event shaped his presidency and convinced him the nation was in a war against terror.

"I'd do it again to save lives."

In a speech and question-and-answer session before the Economic Club of Grand Rapids, Bush defended his decision to go to war in 2003 with Iraq.

"Getting rid of Saddam Hussein was the right thing to do and the world is a better place without him," Bush said.

But he also made it clear he would leave political potshots at President Barack Obama to others, saying: "You are not going to see me in the public square criticizing the president."

Bush underlined the role religion played in his life in the White House, saying prayer gave him strength to go forward.

"I prayed a lot. I really did. I prayed before every major speech. I prayed before debates. It was a very important experience."

The speech may offer a glimpse of Bush's forthcoming memoir, "Decision Points," to be released in November. Bush said it would dissect the major decisions of his presidency.

Bush, 63, has for the most part avoided the political spotlight since leaving the White House. In sharp contrast to former Vice President Dick Cheney, he also has restrained from speaking out against Obama.

"I'm trying to regain a sense of anonymity," he said in February.

"I didn't like it when a certain former president made my life miserable," he said, a reference to former President Jimmy Carter and his frequent criticisms of Bush.

Cheney has been especially disparaging of Obama's conduct on security issues, accusing him in 2009 of projecting "weakness" by delaying his decision on whether to send more troops to Afghanistan.

Bush and his wife, Laura, live in a secluded Dallas suburb, where Bush has been at work on his memoir.

In his most conspicuous public commitment since his presidency, Bush in January joined with former President Bill Clinton to establish a fund for relief and recovery efforts following the Haiti earthquake.

Bush on Wednesday spoke to a DeVos Place crowd of approximately 2,300, mixing humor, anecdotes and serious moments from his presidency.

Referring to his decision to wear an old tuxedo and Laura Bush's reaction to it, Bush said: "'Read my lips, no new tuxes.'"

Bush said his greatest disappointment as president was failing to push through Social Security reform, a major campaign issue of his in 2004. Bush said Republican leadership balked at the proposal, saying it would cost them votes: "And the leadership of our party looked at me and said no."

He also confessed that the failed 1992 campaign of his father, then-President George H. W. Bush, was one of the hardest years of his life.

"Being a son of the president is a lot harder than being president," he said.

Bush recalled the morning of the 2001 attacks, how he learned that first one, then two planes had hit the World Trade Center and then a third plane had hit the Pentagon.

The third plane, he said, "was a declaration of war on our country."

Bush recounted the story of former East Grand Rapids resident Bill Krissoff, an orthopedic surgeon who pressed Bush at age 61 in 2007 to let him join the Navy as a combat surgeon in honor of his son. Marine Lt. Nathan Krissoff, 25, had been killed in a December 2006 roadside bomb explosion in Iraq.

Krissoff served a year in Iraq and now is serving at age 63 in Afghanistan, Bush said.

"America produces amazing people like Dr. Krissoff," Bush said.

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#8. To: war (#7)

Have someone explain "perspective" to you.

Would that be like the difference between locking thousands of innocent civilians because they have slanty eyes and waterboaring in a very controlled manner 2 or 3 murdering terrorists to obtain information that would save thousands of American lives?

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-03   15:58:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: no gnu taxes (#8)

(chuckle)

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-03   16:00:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: no gnu taxes (#8)

Would that be like the difference between locking thousands of innocent civilians because they have slanty eyes and waterboaring in a very controlled manner 2 or 3 murdering terrorists to obtain information that would save thousands of American lives?

Uh, you might want to read this:

http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=3842&wit_id=7906

From my experience – and I speak as someone who has personally interrogated many terrorists and elicited important actionable intelligence– I strongly believe that it is a mistake to use what has become known as the "enhanced interrogation techniques," a position shared by many professional operatives, including the CIA officers who were present at the initial phases of the Abu Zubaydah interrogation.

These techniques, from an operational perspective, are ineffective, slow and unreliable, and as a result harmful to our efforts to defeat al Qaeda. (This is aside from the important additional considerations that they are un-American and harmful to our reputation and cause.)

My interest in speaking about this issue is not to advocate the prosecution of anyone. People were given misinformation, half-truths, and false claims of successes; and reluctant intelligence officers were given instructions and assurances from higher authorities. Examining a past we cannot change is only worthwhile when it helps guide us towards claiming a better future that is yet within our reach.

And my focus is on the future. I wish to do my part to ensure that we never again use these harmful, slow, ineffective, and unreliable techniques instead of the tried, tested, and successful ones – the ones that are also in sync with our values and moral character. Only by doing this will we defeat the terrorists as effectively and quickly as possible.

That George W. Bush would say that he would again resort to measures that didn't work isn't exactly surprising.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   16:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: go65 (#10)

He wasn't there.

Ex-CIA agent says 'waterboarding' worked

In an interview with ABC News, retired agent John Kiriakou told of the capture of Abu Zubaydah in Pakistan and his role in interrogating him. Kiriakou said he repeatedly questioned Zubaydah, but was not present when he was strapped to a board with cellophane around his mouth and nose as water was pumped down his throat.

Kiriakou said agents told him Zubaydah "broke" after 35 seconds.

"From that day on, he answered every question," Kiriakou said. "The threat information he provided disrupted a number of attacks, maybe dozens of attacks."

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2007/12/11/Ex-CIA-agent-says-waterboarding-worked/UPI-25711197388602/

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-03   16:22:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: no gnu taxes (#11)

Of course it worked. Leftwingers have to pretend it didn't to make a case against this technique, because Americans simply don't care as long as a terror attack is stopped.

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-03   16:26:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Badeye (#12) (Edited)

he Federal Law upon this is based almost word for word

Yep...by Cheney's own admission...waterboarding KSM in 2005 stopped a terrorist attack in 2003.

/dumbfuck

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-03   18:25:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: war, badeye (#13)

Yep...by Cheney's own admission...waterboarding KSM in 2005 stopped a terrorist attack in 2003.

Oh yeah, forgot about that!

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   18:26:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: go65 (#14) (Edited)

Dude that tagline is like adding "in bed" to a Chinese fortune cookie fortune....

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-03   18:27:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: no gnu taxes (#11)

he wasn't there

Yes, Ali Soufran was there. And Soufran testified that the CIA's tactics failed.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   18:28:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: go65 (#16) (Edited)

It's pretty handy being a republican:

"He wasn't there!!!" when he was...

"It's word for word the same as federal law!!!" when it's not.

"It's such a disaster that it's Obama's Katrina!!!" after protesting for years that..."Katrina wasn't a disaster!!!"

It goes on and on...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-03   18:32:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: war (#17)

"Obama is dropping in the polls! when he isn't

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   18:34:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: go65 (#18)

Comedy is better in threes although with these people editing them down becomes a task of Oscar winning proportions...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-03   18:35:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: no gnu taxes (#11)

Sorry, when you said "he wasn't there" I didn't realize you were referring to John Kiriakou. Yes, he has since admitted that he wasn't there when he claimed that Zubaydah broke after 35 seconds.

Ali Soufran, who was there, says it's bunk.

"In his book published in 2010, Kiriakou acknowledged he wasn't present and had no direct knowledge of how long it took to break Abu Zubaydah."

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   18:37:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: go65 (#16)

Should have said that he wasn't one of the CIA interrogators there who got the information.

In any event, he's been thoroughly discredited:

On Friday, the Justice Department released reams of newly declassified documents on the CIA interrogation program. Among the documents is a revised, October 2009 version of the Justice Department Inspector General’s report on the FBI’s involvement in detainee interrogations.

This report proves, once and for all, that FBI interrogator Ali Soufan lied about his role in the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGJiYWMwMGYwNmRmOGU0NjY3NzZhYWUyNzhhMjZhOTA

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-03   18:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: no gnu taxes (#21)

You can't be serious.

Abu Zubaydah was arrested on March 28, 2002

Padilla was arrested on May 8th, 2002.

Waterboarding authorized: August, 2002.

Abu Zubaydah waterboarded in August.

See: http://judiciary.house.gov/issues/issues_OPRReport.html

and:

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/2010/02/20/justice-report-cia-memo-used-by- cheney-to-justify-waterboarding-was-inaccurate.html

But a just released report by the Justice Department’s Office of Professional Responsibility into the lawyers who approved the CIA’s interrogation program could prove awkward for Cheney and his supporters. The report provides new information about the contents of one of the never released agency memos, concluding that it significantly misstated the timing of the capture of one Al Qaeda suspect in order to make a claim that seems to have been patently false

But as the Justice report points out, this was wrong. “In fact, Padilla was arrested in May 2002, not 2003 … The information ‘[leading] to the arrest of Padilla’ could not have been obtained through the authorized use of EITs.” (The use of enhanced interrogations was not authorized until Aug. 1, 2002 and Zubaydah was not waterboarded until later that month.) “

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   19:20:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: go65 (#22)

Didn't I go over this already?

These fucking guys are loons. Not one claim that has been made about EIT's has withstood scrutiny...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-03   19:44:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: war (#23)

Not one claim that has been made about EIT's has withstood scrutiny...

very few claims made by Gnu or Badeye ever stand up to scrutiny. :-)

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-03   21:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: go65 (#24) (Edited)

very few claims made by [Padlock] or [Boofer] ever stand up to scrutiny. :-)

Neither have said anything new in a decade. (laughing)

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-04   7:31:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: go65 (#14)

Waterboarding works.

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-04   9:20:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Badeye (#26)

Not one claim that has been made about EIT's has withstood scrutiny...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-04   9:20:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Badeye (#26)

Waterboarding works.

Works for who?

lucysmom  posted on  2010-06-04   9:57:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: lucysmom (#28)

For those who employ it, goofy.

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-04   10:00:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Badeye, lucysmom (#29)

Not one claim that has been made about EIT's has withstood scrutiny...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-04   10:03:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Badeye (#29)

For those who employ it, goofy.

If its so effective, why was it used over 200 times on the same person?

lucysmom  posted on  2010-06-04   10:08:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: lucysmom (#31)

Now you've done it...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-04   10:09:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: lucysmom (#31)

why was it used over 200 times on the same person?

Was it?

(roaring with laughter)

That ridiculous claim is in the same catagory as 'fake moonlandings' goofy.

Simple math debunked this years ago.

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-04   10:12:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: war (#30)

Not one claim that has been made about EIT's has withstood scrutiny...

That, and its use diminishes the United States.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-06-04   10:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Badeye (#33)

Simple math debunked this years ago.

Chuckles...chyea...being strapped and "dunked" 20 times over an hour was only "one" waterboarding.

More like "tortured" math...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-04   10:14:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: go65 (#20)

I didn't realize you were referring to John Kiriakou.

He didn't need to be in the same room to observe the difference in cooperation before and after the waterboarding:

--

John C. Kiriakou, a former C.I.A. counterterrorism officer who was the first to question Abu Zubaydah, [...] was not present for the waterboarding but read the resulting intelligence reports, said he had been told that Abu Zubaydah became compliant after 35 seconds of the water treatment.

"It was like flipping a switch," Mr. Kiriakou said of the shift from resistance to cooperation. He said he thought such "desperate measures" were justified in the "desperate time" in 2002 when another attack seemed imminent.

--

It worked.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-04   10:32:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: war (#35)

being strapped and "dunked" 20 times

They weren't dunked. They had water poured over their mouth for about 13 seconds at a time. That constituted a "waterboarding."

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-04   10:33:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: no gnu taxes (#37)

Facts are meaningless on this topic to the liberals.

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-04   10:35:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: no gnu taxes (#36)

"In his book published in 2010, Kiriakou acknowledged he wasn't present and had no direct knowledge of how long it took to break Abu Zubaydah."

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-04   10:49:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: go65 (#39)

But he saw the difference in cooperation before and after the waterboarding.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-04   10:54:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: no gnu taxes (#40)

He never admitted to the Lindbergh baby's kidnapping and murder.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-06-04   10:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: no gnu taxes (#40)

But he saw the difference in cooperation before and after the waterboarding.

And the info needed to capture Padilla was obtained BEFORE waterboarding, so obviously he was cooperating.

Keep digging.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-06-04   10:59:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: go65 (#42)

Better to error on the side of waterboarding, then allowing a single American to die of a terrorist act.

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-04   11:02:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: go65 (#42)

No need to dig. They got a lot of information from him after the EITs that they couldn't get before.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-06-04   11:06:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Badeye (#43)

Better to error on the side of waterboarding, then allowing a single American to die of a terrorist act.

Engaging in torture is like selling your soul to the devil.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-06-04   11:53:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: go65 (#42)

Didn't I go over this already?

These fucking guys are loons. Not one claim that has been made about EIT's has withstood scrutiny...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-06-04   11:56:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: lucysmom (#45)

Engaging in torture is like selling your soul to the devil.

Seperation of Church and State!

(laughing)

For approximately 72K, BP Oil bought Owe-bama. And as President, he let them Spill, Baby, Spill! Its documented.

Badeye  posted on  2010-06-04   12:20:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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