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United States News
See other United States News Articles

Title: Goldi-Lox Explains the Civil War
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://69.164.197.124/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=287235&Disp=13#C13
Published: Apr 9, 2010
Author: Goldi-Lox
Post Date: 2010-04-09 19:08:35 by Skip Intro
Keywords: None
Views: 18264
Comments: 145

THAT is bullshit.

The civil war was all about MONEY.

The South wanted to sell their crops to Foreign Nations and use their own ports.

FEDGOV said NO. You have to ship them up North, and let our middlemen sell them to nations WE choose at prices we select.

The South was getting HOSED. One of the reasons they had slaves was due to the North imposing these rules on them. They couldn't afford to pay wages.

Now, some of them were very greedy, no doubt...and that is evidenced in the grand homes they built.

However, many southern farmers were barely breaking even and were sick and tired of it. They wanted to use the ports in SC and GA to ship their products and wanted to sell to France and others at better prices than they were getting.

FEDGOV imposed rules on them....so they seceded in order to run their own farms.

However, once fighting broke out, and a civil war was in place Lincoln decided to break the backs of the South, by freeing the slaves who he hoped would fight them in their own towns and plantations. That didn't happen.

Lincoln used Slavery as an excuse for a lot of the actions he engaged in. He was as bad as Obastard...he imprisoned the entire Maryland Assembly (Govt) including the Governor, so they could not vote to seceed. He kept them imprisoned in Fort McHenry for MONTHS. He committed a lot of atrocities. He is no hero. He was a jerk - and an abuser of our Constitution. In fact, read the words of the state song "Maryland my Maryland" - where it says "The tyrants food is on our shores/neck"...that tyrant was Lincoln.

Most blacks who were slaves were well treated, and did not want to leave their homes...and most didn't. Those who were mistreated did, and flooded the cities in the north...from which they have never recovered.

But few slaves - or freedmen - were engaged in the fighting.

Booth was a hero to the South. And still is today.

Goldi-Lox posted on 2010-04-09 18:57:04 ET Reply Trace

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Skip Intro (#0)

oh my...I'm so glad I'm not associated with stormfront lite.

Somebody should tell this silly woman it was about State Rights.

The primary Right the South asserted was to allow Slavery. Hence its being codified within the CSA's Constitution, cleary...consisely..and beyond any doubt of even a total idiot.

Which is why the CSA never could obtain an intervention from any civilized nation, and lost the war.

More to it, obviously...but given Sally's small mind, figure I'd keep it simple.

What a fuckin nutcase.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-09   19:22:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Badeye (#1)

Goldi is outdoing herself today. I guess she's out of work again.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-09   19:29:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Skip Intro (#2)

Goldi is outeydoing herself today.

But hey!!! She did the research...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-09   19:30:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Badeye (#1)

Somebody should tell this silly woman it was about State Rights.

Somebody needs to tell YOU that State's Rights include the right to export goods without having to go through a central government.

Goldi is pretty much correct with everything she wrote.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-09   19:32:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: war (#3)

Don't tell me,let me guess. You think it was about slavery,huh?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-09   19:34:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: sneakypete (#4)

Somebody needs to tell YOU that State's Rights include the right to export goods without having to go through a central government.

That could be but not in the US. The executive branch is charged with all aapects of foreign relations which includes commerce. States are expressly forbidden in Article I Section 10 from entering into any treaty with a foreign nation.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-09   19:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: sneakypete (#4)

Goldi is pretty much correct with everything she wrote.

You've got to be kidding.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-09   19:41:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: sneakypete (#5)

You think it was about slavery,huh?

So did these guys:

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.

In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Confederate States of America - Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Confederate States of America - A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union

exas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated Union to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slaveholding States.

By the disloyalty of the Northern States and their citizens and the imbecility of the Federal Government, infamous combinations of incendiaries and outlaws have been permitted in those States and the common territory of Kansas to trample upon the federal laws, to war upon the lives and property of Southern citizens in that territory, and finally, by violence and mob law, to usurp the possession of the same as exclusively the property of the Northern States.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-09   19:55:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: war (#8)

So did A. H. Stephens, VP of the CSA.

"But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other -- though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution -- African slavery as it exists amongst us -- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-09   20:02:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Skip Intro (#9) (Edited)

A houses divided against itself cannot stand...eventually it will be all of the one thing or all of the other...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-09   21:58:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Skip Intro, sneakypete (#9)

I can excuse sneak tho...he and I have this conversation once or twice a year but he's old so he fergits what I learned him...[wink]

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-09   22:00:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: sneakypete, badeye (#4)

Somebody needs to tell YOU that State's Rights include the right to export goods without having to go through a central government.

I hate agreeing with Badeye as much as the next guy, but when he's right, he's right:

---

Confederate President Jefferson Davis, April 29, 1861:

[T]he productions in the South of cotton, rice, sugar, and tobacco, for the full development and continuance of which the labor of African slaves was and is indispensable, had swollen to an amount which formed nearly three-fourths of the exports of the whole United States and had become absolutely necessary to the wants of civilized man. With interests of such overwhelming magnitude imperiled, the people of the Southern states were driven by the conduct of the North to the adoption of some course of action to avert the danger with which they were openly menaced.

-----------

Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens. March 26, 1861

The prevailing ideas entertained by … most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. … Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of the races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a government built upon it — "When the storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new government is built upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-04-09   22:34:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: go65 (#12)

This one is a keeper:


#15. To: JoeSnuffy (#12)

Israel will never do something just because the UOTUS wants it, but only what is in Israel's interest. Contrary to the general idea circulating here and there, Israel is NOT the US vassal.

Marguerite posted on 2010-04-09 21:53:10 ET

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-04-09   23:39:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Fred Mertz (#13)

Here's a goody from our friend.

#6. To: Goldi-Lox (#5)

He should send a few Mossad agents over here to poke the bogus potus in the chest - but I don't think they'd use a finger.

You know that I have no beef with Israel and will chose it over the Muzzies any day but at some point the Jews are going to have use what ever influence they have to support conservatives.

Even with their small numbers its just symbolic.

The put themselves in the situation they are in.

Mossad out to target the liberal Jewish community and "persuade" them to support conservatives.

WhiteSands posted on 2010-04-10 0:02:39 ET Reply Trace

LOL These people never learn from history.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   0:13:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: go65 (#12)

(chuckle)

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-10   1:13:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sneakypete (#4)

Ah...no.

You have nothing to export from the Antebellum South without SLAVES. Thats simply fact. Without the RIGHT to OWN SLAVES, everything Sally writes is IRRELEVANT.

What you are citing is the infamous 'Lost Cause Theory' thats so ridiculously discredited by historians from both the North and the South its amusing anyone clings to it in the year 2010. You're actually bird talking Jubal Early's defense of The South from the 1868 - 1880's. Early concocted this ridiculous revisionist history in an attempt to paint the South in 'glory' but also to discredit that evil Republican, former General James 'Pete" Longstreet, who despised each other til the day they died.

I'm not making any of this up, you can read it in dozens of legitimate historical texts, or the letters and books from the particpants themselves.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-10   1:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: sneakypete, Badeye, War (#4) (Edited)

Somebody needs to tell YOU that State's Rights include the right to export goods without having to go through a central government.

Goldi is pretty much correct with everything she wrote.

Okay, it's late, but maybe I can contribute something of value to this thread. I believe there is "some" truth on each side, but it is not nearly one-sided as some would have us believe. Let me state for the record, slavery is a great evil. Now to my comments.

My family owned 3 plantations in the York, S.C. area, and a couple were fair sized. However, the were certainly not the size of Tara, and it's important to note plantation simply means farm. None of the families owned slaves at any time, which was typical for the large majority of Southern farmers. The idea drummed into our heads by the black radicals that all southerners owned slaves is a bald faced lie. Furthermore, my family considered slavery wrong. I remember hearing my grandfather and uncle talking that way prior to the push for civil rights, and this talk was by Southerners. My family did fight on the side of the South for States Rights, and I lost my great-great grandfather at Sharpsburg. Two of the plantations were lost because of carpet-baggers.

Typical of the lies told by the Black racists to foster hate is the demonization of General Nathan Bedford Forrest. I brought his war record to the attention of a film producer, and he was very interested in doing a historical novel about Forrest, but that was before he ran into the PC crowd.

Lee considered Forrest to be the best general in the war. True, he was a slave dealer prior to the war, and for that he was dead wrong. However, he was known to be kind, fair, and defended his slaves from harm. After the war was over he was asked by Generals Lee and Gordon to head an organization to help restore the peace, which had broken down. Forrest accepted leadership of the KKK, with strong stipulations. Only former officers could be members, and if it got out of control, then he could dissolve it. It did get out of control, and Forrest disbanded the organization in less than two years after it was formed. Others later re-formed the organization, and many of its actions were evil. The black radicals need a white demon for their hate, and they coverup the truth about Forrest, and his record of helping the blacks after the war. Indeed, he was invited to speak before the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association, forerunner of the NAACP.

Forrest : Memphis' first White Civil Rights Advocate

Lt. General Nathan Bedford Forrest (1821-1877) was a renowned Southern military leader and strategist during the War Between the States. During the Civil War, Forrest's Confederate cavalry wrecked havoc among Union forces throughout the mid-South. He gained worldwide fame from his many battlefield successes, but the wartime heroics have overshadowed his post-war work as a community leader and civil rights advocate. He fought fiercely on the battlefield, yet was a compassionate man off the field. After the war, Forrest worked tirelessly to build the New South and to promote employment for black Southerners. Forrest was known near and far as a great general, and was a well-respected citizen by both blacks and whites alike. The Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association (predecessor to the NAACP) was organized by Southern blacks after the war to promote black voting rights, etc. One of their early conventions was held in Memphis and Mr. Forrest was invited to be the guest speaker, the first white man ever to be invited to speak to the Association.

After the Civil War, General Forrest made a speech to the Memphis City Council (then called the Board of Aldermen). In this speech he said that there was no reason that the black man could not be doctors, store clerks, bankers, or any other job equal to whites. They were part of our community and should be involved and employed as such just like anyone else. In another speech to Federal authorities, Forrest said that many of the ex-slaves were skilled artisans and needed to be employed and that those skills needed to be taught to the younger workers. If not, then the next generation of blacks would have no skills and could not succeed and would become dependent on the welfare of society.

Forrest's words went unheeded. The Memphis & Selma Railroad was organized by Forrest after the war to help rebuild the South's transportation and to build the 'new South'. Forrest took it upon himself to hire blacks as architects, construction engineers and foremen, train engineers and conductors, and other high level jobs. In the North, blacks were prohibited from holding such jobs. When the Civil War began, Forrest offered freedom to 44 of his slaves if they would serve with him in the Confederate army. All 44 agreed. One later deserted; the other 43 served faithfully until the end of the war.

Though they had many chances to leave, they chose to remain loyal to the South and to Forrest. Part of General Forrest's command included his own Escort Company, his Green Berets, made up of the very best soldiers available. This unit, which varied in size from 40-90 men, was the elite of the cavalry. Eight of these picked men were black soldiers and all served gallantly and bravely throughout the war. All were armed with at least 2 pistols and a rifle. Most also carried two additional pistols in saddle holsters. At war's end, when Forrest's cavalry surrendered in May 1865, there were 65 black troopers on the muster roll. Of the soldiers who served under him, Forrest said of the black troops: Finer Confederates never fought.

Forrest was a brilliant cavalryman and courageous soldier. As author Jack Hurst writes: a man possessed of physical valor perhaps unprecedented among his countrymen, as well as, ironically, a man whose social attitudes may well have changed farther in the direction of racial enlightenment over the span of his lifetime than those of most American historical figures.

When Forrest died in 1877 it is noteworthy that his funeral in Memphis was attended not only by a throng of thousands of whites but by hundreds of blacks as well. The funeral procession was over two miles long and was attended by over 10,000 area residents, including 3000 black citizens paying their respects.

Forrest's speech to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association July 5, 1875.

A convention and BBQ was held by the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association at the fairgrounds of Memphis, five miles east of the city. An invitation to speak was conveyed to General Nathan Bedford Forrest, one of the city's most prominent citizens, and one of the foremost cavalry commanders in the late War Between the States. This was the first invitation granted to a white man to speak at this gathering. The invitation's purpose, one of the leaders said, was to extend peace, joy, and union, and following a brief welcoming address a Miss Lou Lewis, daughter of an officer of the Pole-Bearers, brought forward flowers and assurances that she conveyed them as a token of good will. After Miss Lewis handed him the flowers, General Forrest responded with a short speech that, in the contemporary pages of the Memphis Appeal, evinces Forrest's racial open-mindedness that seemed to have been growing in him.

"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. ( Immense applause and laughter.) I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand." (Prolonged applause.)

Whereupon N. B. Forrest again thanked Miss Lewis for the bouquet and then gave her a kiss on the cheek. Such a kiss was unheard of in the society of those days, in 1875, but it showed a token of respect and friendship between the general and the black community and did much to promote harmony among the citizens of Memphis.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-10   2:38:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: war (#6)

That could be but not in the US. The executive branch is charged with all aapects of foreign relations which includes commerce. States are expressly forbidden in Article I Section 10 from entering into any treaty with a foreign nation.

Ahhhh,the Commerce Clause that you lefties so dearly love!

Exporting to a foreign nation that the US has trade agreements with out of a seaport located in your own state is not a violation of the Commerce Clause.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:34:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Skip Intro (#7)

Goldi is pretty much correct with everything she wrote.

You've got to be kidding.

I'm not. If anything I am stunned that people are still so ignorant as to believe it was over slavery.

Then again,I shouldn't be shocked at this late date over seeing lefties believe everything their mommy and daddy state has taught them. The government is your Gawd,and you only fail to trust them when non-commies are in charge.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:39:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: war (#8)

You think it was about slavery,huh?

So did these guys:

Nice spin. Ever heard of a gun named Abraham Lincoln? He's the guy that started the war,and he said he slavery had nothing to do with it.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:43:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: war (#10)

A houses divided against itself cannot stand...eventually it will be all of the one thing or all of the other...

You are right about that. Communism won.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:44:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: war (#11)

..he and I have this conversation once or twice a year but he's old so he fergits what I learned him..

Yeah,that must be what it is.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:45:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: go65 (#12)

Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens. March 26, 1861

Ahhhh,so I guess this means we should accept the words of wisdom from Goober Gore and Joe Biden as reality?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:49:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: mininggold (#14)

but at some point the Jews are going to have use what ever influence they have to support conservatives.

NOT going to happen. Not now,not ever. Israel is a socialist nation.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   8:50:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: sneakypete (#18)

Ahhhh,the Commerce Clause that you lefties so dearly love!

Nope. Re-read what I wrote. This is an Article II issue.

Exporting to a foreign nation that the US has trade agreements with out of a seaport located in your own state is not a violation of the Commerce Clause.

States don't and never have had supreme authority of regulation of ports of egress.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-10   8:58:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: sneakypete (#20)

He's the guy that started the war,and he said he slavery had nothing to do with it.

No secession no war.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-10   8:59:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Badeye (#16)

Ah...no.

You have nothing to export from the Antebellum South without SLAVES. Thats simply fact. Without the RIGHT to OWN SLAVES, everything Sally writes is IRRELEVANT.

Not true. We (the original colonies)started out exporting goods to Europe before slavery existed here. We used indentured servants,both black and white.

In fact,it was a former indentured servant that created slavery as a legal institution by going to court and having his indentured servant declared to be his property. This man was black and the indentured servant he enslaved were both black.

Slavery was just more profitable at that time. A condition which would have changed as machinery became available to do the work more efficiently and cheaply.

After all,the slaves all had "free health care,free housing,free food,and free clothing".

Hell,they even had a retirement plan that allowed them to sit around and still be fed and housed once they got too old to work. Slavery was a wet dream come true for the left,and Obama is trying to bring it back to thundering applause from them. The only difference is he wants the whites to be the slaves.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   9:00:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: sneakypete (#27) (Edited)

You're out of your mind if you believe it was a cushy life. The fact that movement was restricted should be enough to convince you otherwise.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-10   10:42:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: war (#28)

it was a cushy life.

Slavery...what a hoot...and the underground railroad was a happy-go-lucky field trip.

Suzanne  posted on  2010-04-10   11:12:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: sneakypete, White Sands (#24)

NOT going to happen. Not now,not ever. Israel is a socialist nation.

I agree but White Sands who made that statement evidently hasn't caught on yet. He wants the Mossad to enforce a type of group think.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   11:17:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: sneakypete (#23)

Ahhhh,so I guess this means we should accept the words of wisdom from Goober Gore and Joe Biden as reality

If they were part and parcel of the formation of the original US government... you betcha. Just what other authorities would you cite?

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   11:24:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: sneakypete (#24)

Israel is a socialist nation.

Socialism will work under a system of non-freeloading, like minded moral people.

The problem is keeping the riff-raff out.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-10   11:28:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: sneakypete, war (#20)

Nice spin. Ever heard of a gun named Abraham Lincoln? He's the guy that started the war,and he said he slavery had nothing to do with it.

The Civil War started when Confederate soldiers on Morris Island, SC fired a salvo toward Fort Sumter, alerting other Confederate units that it was time to shell the fort.

Unless Lincoln somehow commanded Confederate forces, he didn't start the war.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-04-10   11:28:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: no gnu taxes (#32)

Socialism will work under a system of non-freeloading, like minded moral people.

The problem is keeping the riff-raff out.

LOLOLOL So when does the free loading off the rest of the world stop there?

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   11:38:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mininggold (#34)

Give me a comparison of what the so called Palestinian people get from the the rest of the world versus what Israel gets.

I mean, when you use your resources to equip your toddlers with suicide bombs, what kind of lifestyle can you hope to have?

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-10   11:46:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: sneakypete (#20)

Nice spin. Ever heard of a gun named Abraham Lincoln?

So I provide you with the words of the VP of the CSA saying flat-out that secession was due to slavery, and you blow it off.

The war was over secession, and secession was over slavery. I don't know how much clearer it can be.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   11:50:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: no gnu taxes (#35)

Give me a comparison of what the so called Palestinian people get from the the rest of the world versus what Israel gets.

I mean, when you use your resources to equip your toddlers with suicide bombs, what kind of lifestyle can you hope to have?

As long as Israel does not abide by the contract it made in exchange for the land and the restrictions on it's use it has no standing, period. All troubles either internal or external are the price paid for being a country. Every country has them.

You Israel Firsters are such utopians.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   11:55:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: mininggold (#37)

As long as Israel does not abide by the contract it made in exchange for the land and the restrictions on it's use it has no standing,

WTF are you talking about/

For all the money spent attacking Israel's stance on defending one tiny little sliver of land in in the ME, every single "Palestinian" person could be transfered to some other Muzzie country and live like kings.

Do you support the goal of destroying Isreal?

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-10   12:00:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: no gnu taxes (#38)

For all the money spent attacking Israel's stance on defending one tiny little sliver

How much money are you talking about, Eric?

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   12:03:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: no gnu taxes (#32)

Socialism will work under a system of non-freeloading, like minded moral people.

Are you referring to Heaven, because it doesn't work in any of the countries I have been in.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-10   12:11:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Skip Intro, sneakeypete (#36)

So I provide you with the words of the VP of the CSA saying flat-out that secession was due to slavery, and you blow it off.

And the comparison he used really shoots his credibility too. I'm surprised.

It's not like your source wasn't instrumental in the forming of the CSA. I guess only second party sources or less should count as "authorities". lol

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:11:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: mininggold (#37)

You Israel Firsters are such utopians.

No, were Christians, not those cursed by God.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-10   12:13:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: no gnu taxes (#38)

Do you support the goal of destroying Isreal?

Do you support the EQUALLY stated goal of including most of the middle east including parts of Syria and Iran, as the new Jewish Homeland?

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:14:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: GarySpFC (#40)

Socialism will work under a system of non-freeloading, like minded moral people.

Have you ever lived in such a system as I have described?

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-10   12:16:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: no gnu taxes (#44)

Have you ever lived in such a system as I have described?

What you are describing is just one big tribe.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:18:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: mininggold (#43)

Answering a question with a question. Typical ploy of libtards and Paultards. Answer my question and I will answer yours'.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-10   12:18:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: no gnu taxes (#46)

Answering a question with a question. Typical ploy of libtards and Paultards. Answer my question and I will answer yours'.

I didn't fall for your bait so you are pissed. Poor baby.

I don't care if you answer or not, as you already have stated that certain countries get an automatic pass for whatever they want to do.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:21:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: sneakypete (#20) (Edited)

Nice spin. Ever heard of a gun named Abraham Lincoln? He's the guy that started the war,and he said he slavery had nothing to do with it.

I suppose history being written by the victors, it's no wonder many are confused today.

Years ago I ran across a website (I'll try and find them again), of the decendents of black slaves that discovered the truth about the War of Aggression, and made it their goal to get the truth out, once and for all, that the war was not fought over slavery, as they had been spoon fed all their lives. They found that their ancestors did fight in that war, but they fought for the South.

Lincoln had given Maine the option of keeping their slaves, if they didn't secede, he didn't give a damn about the slaves, he wanted control over the states...Lincoln actually did what our government today is threatening, they're going to turn their federal thugs loose on the citizens they have declared 'terrorist'...anyone who dares question their agenda, it's a Federal takeover, but it won't be called that, the people themselves will be the combatants, the enemy!

Murron  posted on  2010-04-10   12:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: mininggold (#41)

I'm still trying to find Goldi's source for this:

The South wanted to sell their crops to Foreign Nations and use their own ports.

FEDGOV said NO. You have to ship them up North, and let our middlemen sell them to nations WE choose at prices we select.

The South was getting HOSED. One of the reasons they had slaves was due to the North imposing these rules on them. They couldn't afford to pay wages.

Maybe it's hidden in Israel and only Marguerite knows where.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   12:24:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Murron (#48)

if they didn't secede, he didn't give a damn about the slaves

That's right, he cared about preserving the Union.

Why can't you gomers figure that out?

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   12:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: mininggold (#47)

Answer my question and I will answer yours'

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-10   12:27:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: GarySpFC (#42)

No, were Christians, not those cursed by God.

I don't quite know what you are saying but Jesus made it real clear what he thought of the Pharisees and I don't see it mentioned that Christians should donate blood and treasure so they could have a homeland.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:28:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Skip Intro (#50)

That's right, he cared about preserving the Union.

Why can't you gomers figure that out?

As evidenced by the mandating of non secession clauses in their new revised state constitutions. Texas which was even it's own republic just a few years prior to the CW cannot now secede legally.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:36:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: mininggold (#53)

Secession began before Lincoln took office, although his election was definitely a catalyst for it. The previous president, Buchanan didn't want to deal with it.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   12:42:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Skip Intro (#0)

Israel can expect a new immigrant in the near future. Who wouldn't want to live in the country with the bestest, brightest people? Other than that, what she says makes some sense though so probably she needs a little more reeducation before making the big move.

Oh I initially didn't read the part about it only needing to toe the line for 2.5 years when evidently it will get unfettered access to our treasury after the GOP takes back the presidency.

#30. To: Marguerite (#29)

In the face of the Obastard, Israel should be a nation unto itself.

Have NO relationships with any nation that requires them to run their nation other than how they choose to run it.

That would be parity with every other nation.

They need to ramp up quickly to manufacture the missiles they had previously planned to buy from the USA. Obastard has frozen those sales. Likely permanently.

Israel CAN make them themselves...and should do so immediately.

The Israeli Jews are the smartest people on earth, and the most productive. Now they need to be 100% self-reliant.

...At least for the next 2.5 years until we can flush this piece of s**t from our White House

Goldi-Lox posted on 2010-04-10 12:32:12 ET Reply Trace

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:51:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Skip Intro (#54)

Secession began before Lincoln took office, although his election was definitely a catalyst for it. The previous president, Buchanan didn't want to deal with it.

I also think part of it was not wanting the ocean confluence of the mighty Mississip to be controlled by another country.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   12:57:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: mininggold (#56)

I also think part of it was not wanting the ocean confluence of the mighty Mississip to be controlled by another country.

That's true.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   12:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: mininggold (#55)

The Israeli Jews are the smartest people on earth, and the most productive. Now they need to be 100% self-reliant.

A good place to start would be to refuse the $3 billion or so in welfare payments we give them every year.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   12:59:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Skip Intro (#58)

A good place to start would be to refuse the $3 billion or so in welfare payments we give them every year.

They supposedly wondered in circles in the wilderness for forty years taking manna from God and bitching about it. Nothing has changed.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   13:18:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: war (#3)

Hey! Dem darkies liked bein slaves!

Bartcoprules  posted on  2010-04-10   14:07:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Bartcoprules (#60)

Hey! Dem darkies liked bein slaves!

Too bad that couldn't have been determined before a large percentage of two generations of mostly male citizens were slaughtered opposing it or affirming it.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   14:33:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Badeye (#1)

oh my...I'm so glad I'm not associated with stormfront lite.

So Lincoln went to war to free the slaves?????

Is that what you're here to tell us?

Now I believe Goldi is a loon, but why don't you share with us your take on the civil war?

Goldi-Lox, War, Fred Mertz: Go back to liberty post where you belong.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-04-10   14:35:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Skip Intro (#49)

The South wanted to sell their crops to Foreign Nations and use their own ports.

Irrelevant, the war wasn't about slavery.

Goldi-Lox, War, Fred Mertz: Go back to liberty post where you belong.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-04-10   14:36:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#63)

Irrelevant, the war wasn't about slavery.

Sure it was ....only it wasn't just about slavery.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-10   14:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: mininggold (#64)

What in the hell happened to this guy?

#14. To: Goldi-Lox (#13)

Good post. The war was more about money and federal power than it was about slavery. Slavery was the flashpoint and is used to justify it. The South and North were also pretty antagonistic toward each other in general, much like the divide between Red States and Blue States now.

TooConservative posted on 2010-04-09 19:42:56 ET Reply Trace

How hard is to understand that if there were no slavery there would have been no war?

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-10   21:13:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: mininggold (#64)

Sure it was ....only it wasn't just about slavery.

I'm sorry, you're saying Lincoln started the war to free the slaves?

Goldi-Lox, War, Fred Mertz: Go back to liberty post where you belong.

Nebuchadnezzar  posted on  2010-04-10   21:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: war (#28)

You're out of your mind if you believe it was a cushy life.

Where did I ever make that claim?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   21:56:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: mininggold (#31)

Ahhhh,so I guess this means we should accept the words of wisdom from Goober Gore and Joe Biden as reality

If they were part and parcel of the formation of the original US government...

The VP of the Confederacy was a Founding Father?

Who knew?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   21:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: go65 (#33)

The Civil War started when Confederate soldiers on Morris Island, SC fired a salvo toward Fort Sumter, alerting other Confederate units that it was time to shell the fort.

No,the War of Northern Aggression started when the yankees refused to get the hell out and had to be forced out.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   21:59:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Skip Intro (#36)

Nice spin. Ever heard of a gun named Abraham Lincoln?

So I provide you with the words of the VP of the CSA saying flat-out that secession was due to slavery, and you blow it off.

Of course. Who was he compared to the president that was the one that started the war?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   22:00:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: mininggold (#41)

And the comparison he used really shoots his credibility too. I'm surprised.

It's not like your source wasn't instrumental in the forming of the CSA.

Abraham Lincoln was the one who was most responsible for forming the CSA.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   22:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Bartcoprules (#60)

Hey! Dem darkies liked bein slaves!

They must,since most of them are still slaves today.

They are OWNED by the Dim Party,and live on the Dim Plantation.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-10   22:06:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: no gnu taxes (#44)

Socialism will work under a system of non-freeloading, like minded moral people.

Have you ever lived in such a system as I have described?

I am married to a Russian lady, and we have a second home in Volgograd, Russia, and so I am more than a little familiar with socialism.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-10   22:06:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: sneakypete (#70)

Of course. Who was he compared to the president that was the one that started the war?

He's the one explaining why the South succeeded, triggering the war.

Personally, I wish Lincoln had let the South go. Of course,if he had then we'd have another turd world country along our souther border to deal with.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   22:07:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: sneakypete (#71)

Abraham Lincoln was the one who was most responsible for forming the CSA.

The CSA was formed before Lincoln took office.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-10   22:08:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: sneakypete (#67)

"Slavery was a wet dream come true for the left,and Obama is trying to bring it back to thundering applause from them."

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-10   23:15:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: war (#65)

How hard is to understand that if there were no slavery there would have been no war?

I turn on CNN maybe once a year. I did happen to see Roland Martin debate this issue with Brag Bowling on Anderson Cooper. Roland is a professing Christian, but all I could feel for the man was pity. The only thing I saw reflected in him was a seeking after power, which left him filled with hate, and not the love of Christ.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-11   0:12:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: no gnu taxes (#35)

Give me a comparison of what the so called Palestinian people get from the the rest of the world versus what Israel gets.

I mean, when you use your resources to equip your toddlers with suicide bombs, what kind of lifestyle can you hope to have?

I wonder why, o why, doesn't the oil rich Islamic world help the poor Palestinians? Maybe they want to keep them as victims.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-11   0:21:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: sneakypete (#68)

The VP of the Confederacy was a Founding Father?

Of the CSA, of which Biden and Gore were not of the ....U S of A. It's not hard to understand.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   1:14:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#66)

I'm sorry, you're saying Lincoln started the war to free the slaves?

Your duplicity is getting rather tedious, just where did I say that? Are you Paul CJ? As you post just like him.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   1:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: GarySpFC (#78)

I wonder why, o why, doesn't the oil rich Islamic world help the poor Palestinians? Maybe they want to keep them as victims.

Why should they have to help them? Isn't that more of that socialism that you hate but evidently advocate for others to follow when it's convenient?

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   1:37:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: GarySpFC (#77)

Funny...I usually see that in people who CLAIM to be filled with Christ...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-11   7:54:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: mininggold (#81)

C'mon man...you looking for consistency?

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-11   7:58:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Skip Intro (#74)

Personally, I wish Lincoln had let the South go. Of course,if he had then we'd have another turd world country along our souther border to deal with.

Proving once again that all you lefties are delusional.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-11   10:17:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Skip Intro (#74)

Personally, I wish Lincoln had let the South go.

I'm getting to the point of sharing your opinion.

lucysmom  posted on  2010-04-11   10:59:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: mininggold (#81)

Why should they have to help them? Isn't that more of that socialism that you hate but evidently advocate for others to follow when it's convenient?

There is a major difference between the state and individuals helping people. Helping individuals with other people's money is just a form of selfishness.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-11   11:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: GarySpFC (#86) (Edited)

There is a major difference between the state and individuals helping people. Helping individuals with other people's money is just a form of selfishness.

I'm all in favor of individuals giving to charity, but suggesting that others should do it is another form of socialism. Maybe you should get your church to organize an "adopt a Palestinian family" program. That might be one way that they can repay their never ending debt to Israel, by helping to keep it safe.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   11:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: sneakypete (#84)

Proving once again that all you lefties are delusional.

How is that left or right?

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   11:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: mininggold (#88)

How is that left or right?

If pete disagrees with you then, by definition, you are a "leftie".

It's Goldi-Lox logic.

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-11   12:54:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Skip Intro, sneakypete (#89)

If pete disagrees with you then, by definition, you are a "leftie".

It's Goldi-Lox logic.

I guess so. And he sticks with his comparison of Gore and Biden with the VP of the CSA.... that's pretty pathetic.

I do agree with him that the Lincoln candidacy was the catalyst but I also think it would have happened with almost any Yankee elected as president in that era.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   13:04:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: mininggold (#90) (Edited)

I do agree with him that the Lincoln candidacy was the catalyst but I also think it would have happened with almost any Yankee elected as president in that era.

The die was cast in 1858. Unless all future states were to be allowed to be slave states, the South was going to secede.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. - Thomas Jefferson

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-11   13:06:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Skip Intro (#91) (Edited)

The die was cast in 1858. Unless all future states were to be allowed to be slave states, the South was going to secede.

It was uncertain then that they would form another union though. Some states were still willing to go it alone. With the candidacy of Lincoln and the appearance that he probably would win, they decided they needed to unite ASAP.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-11   13:12:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Fred Mertz (#13)

This one is a keeper: (Rant by the Maggot)

It looks like Goldi is getting ready to purge her site of all Israel critics, even if they're Jewish.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. - Thomas Jefferson

Skip Intro  posted on  2010-04-11   20:34:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Skip Intro (#93)

I've been out of touch for nearly two days and I'm trying to catch up.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-04-11   21:03:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: mininggold (#88)

How is that left or right?

Such profound ignorance can only come from the left. It's not only taught in the public schools,but for northerners it is genetic.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-11   22:13:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: mininggold (#90)

I guess so. And he sticks with his comparison of Gore and Biden with the VP of the CSA.... that's pretty pathetic.

They were all VP's,numbnuts. And my comparison was in response to one of your brain farts.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-11   22:15:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: sneakypete (#96) (Edited)

They were all VP's,numbnuts. And my comparison was in response to one of your brain farts.

They were VPs from different countries and in different eras ....numbnuts. Why don't you just admit your apples to oranges comparison. It really does affect what's left of your credibility.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   1:12:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: sneakypete (#96) (Edited)

And my comparison was in response to one of your brain farts.

Which you neglected to mention or refer to in any post. And you talk about others having brain farts.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   1:19:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: mininggold (#97)

They were VPs from different countries and in different eras ...

Oh,well. That makes all the difference in the world,doesn't it?

Tell me,is a horse in NY still a horse in Florida? And the day I start to worry about what a cretin like you thinks of my credibility is the day I hang myself.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-12   6:14:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: sneakypete (#27)

Sorry, sneaky, but the fact is the South wanted slavery to continue. If it had not been THE issue throughout the 1850's, the Civil War would not have occured.

'The Lost Cause' myth says it was a war about 'States Rights'.

What was the 'primary Right' the South desired above all others?

As the CSA Constitution Clearly STATES - the Right to maintain SLAVERY as a institution.

Had the CSA abolished slavery, THEN fired on Ft Sumter, they would have won.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   9:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Nebuchadnezzar (#62)

So Lincoln went to war to free the slaves?????

Is that what you're here to tell us?

Now I believe Goldi is a loon, but why don't you share with us your take on the civil war?

Actually, the South fired the first shot. Lets at least agree on the timeline of events.

No, Lincoln did NOT go to war to 'free the slaves'. He responded to the initial attack on a Federal Government military installation.

My 'take' is the South wins if the abolish slavery as an institution, then fires on Ft Sumter. Europe would have broken the blockade that was eventually placed around the South's neck and effectively strangled it. Doubt they would have provided ground troops, but then again I don't think the South would have needed them as the first 3 years of the war demonstrated.

But anyone attempting to say the war wasn't about 'slavery' is kidding themselves. The Civil War has been accurately described as 'being bracketed by the actions of TWO madmen. Abolitionist John Brown, and John Wilkes Booth'.

'The Lost Cause' theory promulgated by Southerns such as Jubal Early is the one instance in world history (my opinion here specifically) where the 'Losing Side' was allowed to write 'the history' without rebuke or debunking or...punishment of some kind. Not saying there should have been 'punishment' for it...just noting its curious in the history of warfare, IE winners v losers.

It was designed to remove the obvious, it was about slavery...and it was designed to shift blame for the loss of the war from Robert E Lee specifically and shift it to General James Longstreet, who Early despised. The whole 'theory' came about after Longstreet threw in after the war with his good friend US Grant, and became a Republican appointee.

It wasn't helped that Longstreet after Lee died painted himself in a light that history simply didn't support on some key facts, especially related to the battle most attribute to leading to the South's defeat, Gettysburg. After that debacle, which Lee himself is to blame for, the ANV (Army of Northern Virginia) was never an effective offensive force, having gutted itself over those three bloody days.

My view is the South wins in the first 24 months of that war had they rejected the institution of slavery. Its also my view the CSA would have witnessed multiple states suceed from IT within a couple of years...and the end result is the 20th century would have seen a North America that resembled modern day Europe, fractured into as many as 12 'nation states'. Again here, my 'opinion' specifically.

Consider how WW1 and/or WW2 would have ended had that taken place....facinating the consider the ramifications...at least to me.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   9:16:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: Badeye (#100)

Sorry, sneaky, but the fact is the South wanted slavery to continue. If it had not been THE issue throughout the 1850's, the Civil War would not have occured.

Sorry Badeye, but you are dead wrong. You simply do not understand the Southern psyche. Southerners are a very proud group, and the aristrocrats by the time of the CW had already decided slavery was morally wrong, but in spite of that they were not about to allow outsiders to push something down their throats.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   10:15:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: GarySpFC (#102)

I posted the statements of seccession...given that they clearly state that SLAVERY IS THE MAIN REASON FOR THEIR SECCESSION it's insane to believe otherwise.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   10:18:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: GarySpFC (#102)

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

That statement is false, btw.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   10:20:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: war (#103) (Edited)

I posted the statements of seccession...given that they clearly state that SLAVERY IS THE MAIN REASON FOR THEIR SECCESSION it's insane to believe otherwise.

Cleary that is what was stated, and that was the reaction due to outsiders telling them how to run their business. Go read Forrest's speech to the Polebearers again, and remember it was from a former slave trader.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   10:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: GarySpFC (#105)

You want me to accept the statement of one person as being above the statements of a body of people?

You have the Calhoun problem too, you know...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   10:39:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: sneakypete (#99)

Oh,well. That makes all the difference in the world,doesn't it?

Tell me,is a horse in NY still a horse in Florida? And the day I start to worry about what a cretin like you thinks of my credibility is the day I hang myself.

Only if you are interested in accuracy.

Name calling..... such a lefty tactic.... too bad you used to be better than that. And yes you started it. Now you appear only interested in thinking you are right. Facts seem to not matter at all.

To compare those VPs as being similiar was to insult and minimize the role of the VP of the CSA.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   10:53:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: war (#106) (Edited)

You want me to accept the statement of one person as being above the statements of a body of people?

You have the Calhoun problem too, you know...

There have been so many lies told about Forrest, with a goal of maintaining victim status, that I simply do not see your side as moving one iota from your position regardless of the evidence. Hate is a important motivator from your side's POV, and he is the example.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   11:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: GarySpFC (#102)

Sorry, but those 'aristocrats' codified it in the CSA Constitution, as a post way up above quoted exactly.

I understand the 'Southern psyche' quite well. I also know today its based on the Lost Cause bullshit thats been utterly discredited by historians from both Northern and Southern perspectives.

The South today likes to either pretend it 'wasn't about slavery' or pretends the war never happened (See Atlanta - who's historical time line ends in the 1850's and picks back up in the 1870's).

Your statement is further 'gutted' by the simple fact that the notion of arming 'blacks' in the South to bolster the vastly outnumbered CSA forces was considered by a vast majority within the legislature to be 'treason'. Or suicidal, take your pick.

And tell me, if they had decided it was 'morally wrong' and only resisted because 'they wouldn't allow it to be pushed down their throats'....ah, morally wrong is MORALLY WRONG.

What you state here is something I noted way up above, the South - like the British Empire of that ear, would rather 'lose the war than admit the mistake'.

They could have won. The decision to codify Slavery in their Constitution was in the end the deciding factor. It prevented any possibility of the worlds great powers from siding with the CSA. It gave Lincoln a huge advantage in the North to 'define' the war as it was taking place, not only taking and holding the 'moral highground' of the era, but to this day. Not saying he was fighting the war over slavery, thats simply not true as his own words up until his assasination clearly demonstrate.

But the fact is the CSA died of a theory. The theory was they could suceed from the Union AND keep a Institution (Slavery) without repercussions that doomed it to failure.

The simple fact of this matter is the Union, despite all of its advantages in manpower, and manufacturing, couldn't get out of its own way til Grant was promoted to command of ALL Union forces, in both theaters. The war shouldn't have lasted more than 18 months, tops, given the disparity in military and economic forces. It was only due to Union incompetence the war lasted four years in my view.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   11:05:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Badeye (#109)

Sorry, but those 'aristocrats' codified it in the CSA Constitution, as a post way up above quoted exactly.

Codification seems to not matter here. And if you are from the south you are entitled to read into it what you want.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   11:08:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: GarySpFC (#108)

I don't hate anyone. And BFD is he gave a speech.

NO SLAVERY = NO WAR.

Period...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   11:21:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: Boofer (#109)

It was only due to Union incompetence the war lasted four years in my view.

And everyone else's, Boof. (eyes rolling)

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   11:24:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: war, GaryspFC (#111)

I don't hate anyone. And BFD is he gave a speech.

NO SLAVERY = NO WAR.

Period...

Evidently Gary is saying you can't believe those who made the military their career, even when it was put on the record. Maybe he is right... he ought to know.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   11:35:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Badeye (#109)

Have you considered what percentage of Southerners owned slaves?

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   12:10:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: GarySpFC (#114)

Have you considered what percentage of Southerners owned slaves?

Yep. Which is why your comment about 'artistocrats' previously simply doesn't hold water.

It wasn't the vast majority of Southerners that fought and died in that war that 'codified Slavery' in the CSA Constitution.

The average Southerner didn't own slaves. They were sold on supporting the war as a 'states rights' issue, and it was adroitly played by that aristocratic class as a 'matter of honor' to the hilt.

But it doesn't change the facts as written by the CSA's own hand in its Constitution. Yep, States Rights was a central, key theme. But the next question after that acknowledgement is 'States Rights to do WHAT?'

And the answer cannot be denied. 'To maintain the Institution of Slavery'.

The Federal Government was doing what it does to this day, taxing unfairly. No dispute. But there is a way to deal with that, via the Constitution. If that was the only issue, there would never have been a Civil War in my view.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   12:29:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: GarySpFC (#114)

In that case...what's a little child molestation...packrat probably wouldn't mind....

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   12:30:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: Badeye (#115)

The average Southerner didn't own slaves. They were sold on supporting the war as a 'states rights' issue, and it was adroitly played by that aristocratic class as a 'matter of honor' to the hilt.
But it doesn't change the facts as written by the CSA's own hand in its Constitution. Yep, States Rights was a central, key theme. But the next question after that acknowledgement is 'States Rights to do WHAT?'
And the answer cannot be denied. 'To maintain the Institution of Slavery'.

Why? Once again, because outsiders were cramming their views down the Southerner's throats.

The Federal Government was doing what it does to this day, taxing unfairly. No dispute. But there is a way to deal with that, via the Constitution. If that was the only issue, there would never have been a Civil War in my view.

Let's take a look at something interesting.'

In 1703, 42 percent of New York's households had slaves; the only city with more was Charleston, South Carolina. By 1775, in New York there were 3,100 slaves, accounting for 30 percent to 40 percent of the city's workforce.
Slavery was part of every American colony until Vermont got rid of it in 1777; emancipation "came grudgingly and not completely" in New York until 1827."
http://www.newyorkology.com/archives/2005/10/slavery_in...

The point being the South knew slavery was a dying institution. Yes, they codified it in their Constitution, and that due to hostility from the North. Likewise, prior to the Civil Rights movement I frequently heard many declare segregation was wrong. However, the CRM set progress back 30-40 years. Older Southern blacks will admit this as being true.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   13:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: GarySpFC (#117)

Okay...they 'knew' and did it anyway. And that act ensured they'd never get any support, or recognition, as a seperate nation when they suceeded.

Any way you cut it, they FUCKED UP on that one issue, and it doomed them.

As I noted, Lincoln didn't set out to 'free the slaves'. He took that tac when he needed to. I'm aware that slavery existed in the North and that the change came slowly.

Still doesn't contradict my noting Slavery as a codified institution doomed the CSA from day one.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   14:10:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: GarySpFC (#117) (Edited)

However, the CRM set progress back 30-40 years. Older Southern blacks will admit this as being true.

You - and the unnamed "they" - are out of your minds...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   14:10:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Badeye (#118)

Still doesn't contradict my noting Slavery as a codified institution doomed the CSA from day one.

I don't doubt that. However, once again, slavery was not the root cause of the CW. In fact many of the Founding Fathers were slave holders, and were still respected even though deceased prior to the breakout of the CW.

BTW, I live close to where John Brown lived and started his killing. The man was not respected in the area.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   14:30:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: GarySpFC (#120)

slavery was not the root cause of the CW

NO SLAVERY = NO WAR

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   14:31:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: GarySpFC (#120)

To: Badeye

Still doesn't contradict my noting Slavery as a codified institution doomed the CSA from day one.

I don't doubt that. However, once again, slavery was not the root cause of the CW. In fact many of the Founding Fathers were slave holders, and were still respected even though deceased prior to the breakout of the CW.

Damn you are a good spinmeister.

What's a code in black and white good for when one can make up authorities out of thin air, most who would have been born a hundred years later or more than a hundred years before?

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   15:03:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: mininggold (#122)

Anyone claiming that slavery was not the root cause of the Civil War is out of their goddam minds...

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-12   15:09:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: war (#123)

Anyone claiming that slavery was not the root cause of the Civil War is out of their goddam minds...

I'm tired of the same types saying that our constitution is cut in stone while other constitutions are open for interpretation citing nameless figments.

It's the war, stupid.

mininggold  posted on  2010-04-12   15:16:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: GarySpFC (#120)

BTW, I live close to where John Brown lived and started his killing. The man was not respected in the area.

(chuckle) Most nutcases aren't respected. ONe of my favorite ironies is that it was then Lt Colonel Robert E Lee, along with some captain named JEB Stewart that captured John Brown at Harpers Ferry.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   15:32:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: mininggold (#122) (Edited)

Damn you are a good spinmeister.

What you don't know is my family lived, suffered, and died beause of the CW. They were never slave owners, but saw slavery as evil. My great-great grandfather was killed at Sharpsburg, leaving my great-great grandmother as a widow with two young children, and one died shortly thereafter. My great- grandfather died shortly after I was born, and my grandmother's Mom died at an early age. My family lost everything they had, and moved from S.C. to Alabama in a covered wagon. I listened for years as my family and others passed down this information.

BTW, my mother is 92, aunt 94, and my uncle just passed away last month at 88. Numerous relatives are still alive closing in on 100.

What's a code in black and white good for when one can make up authorities out of thin air, most who would have been born a hundred years later or more than a hundred years before?

Who is denying there was a constitution? I've seen a copy in the first capital at Montgomery. I simply disagree as to the cause of the war.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   15:47:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: Badeye (#125)

Grant's total war policy makes Iraq and Vietnam look like cake bakes. He would be condemned by both conservatives and liberals today.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   16:23:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: GarySpFC (#127)

No more than Truman for nuking.

Lincoln would have been condemed for appointing each of the Generals that proceeded Grant, for not removing Halleck and Stanton, and for not replacing the head of procurement for the Army of the Potomac.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-12   16:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: Badeye (#128) (Edited)

Grant's total war policy makes Iraq and Vietnam look like cake bakes. He would be condemned by both conservatives and liberals today.

No more than Truman for nuking.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military targets, with civilians in the area. Grant not onlyi targeted supplies the Confederates could use, which I understand, but he also took or destroyed anything women, children, and the aged could eat. He also destroyed their homes.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-12   17:01:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: Badeye (#100)

Sorry, sneaky, but the fact is the South wanted slavery to continue.

Yes,they did. So did many in the north. It still doesn't matter because slavery was NOT the centerpiece of the war from the point of view of the aggressive forces of the north.

Hell,the north practically enslaved immigrant Irish males right off the boat at Ellis Island,and swore them into the union army on the spot.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-12   20:54:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GarySpFC, Badeye (#102)

Sorry Badeye, but you are dead wrong. You simply do not understand the Southern psyche. Southerners are a very proud group, and the aristrocrats by the time of the CW had already decided slavery was morally wrong, but in spite of that they were not about to allow outsiders to push something down their throats.

Don't forget that the vast majority of the citizens of the south didn't own slaves,and many were against slavery.

They weren't fighting for slavery. They were fighting for their homes and for self-rule.

I can't remember the name now,but one Yankee officer is said to have asked a CSA enlisted man why he was fighting when it was obvious he couldn't afford to own slaves,and the man replied "Because you are here."

Which also explains why we will never run out of enemies as long as we are a occupying force in the Middle East.

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-12   21:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: mininggold (#107)

To compare those VPs as being similiar ......

Yeah,for one thing,if you combined the IQ's of Biden and Goober it wouldn't match the IQ of the typical rabid rat.

Besides,we all know a VP isn't really a VP,right?

"I adore John McCain, support him 100 percent and will do everything I can to support his reelection. As everyone knows, I was honored and proud to run with him. And Todd and I were with him in D.C. just a week ago." (Sarah Palin,Dec 2009) ************************************ DID Palin say or write these things or not? (Me) I don't know or F ing care. (Mad Dog posted on 2009-12-26 16:36:33 ET,post # 105 http://libertysflame.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=5510&Disp=114#C114)

sneakypete  posted on  2010-04-12   21:13:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: sneakypete, GarySpFC, Badeye (#131)

Don't forget that the vast majority of the citizens of the south didn't own slaves,and many were against slavery.

They weren't fighting for slavery. They were fighting for their homes and for self-rule.

Revisionist history at its finest there Sneaky.....

------

Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens. March 26, 1861

The prevailing ideas entertained by … most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. … Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of the races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a government built upon it — "When the storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

Our new government is built upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Being a Republican means you get to choose your own reality.

go65  posted on  2010-04-13   8:58:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: go65 (#133)

If you think the Northeners, in general, had any different opinion of Negros, you are delusional.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2010-04-13   9:01:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: GarySpFC (#129)

You are confusing Grant with Sherman here. In effect, two very different theaters of operation. Grant had a magnificent supply base, the largest ever created in the history of warfare up to that time, located at City Point. Shipping came directly from the Atlantic to the docks there. Trains had access as well. Grants 'supply line' was measured in YARDS more or less, from the point supplies were embarked upon the docks, or train yards.

Sherman's supply lines were more or less none existent once past Kennesaw Mountain, and measured in hundreds of miles. To execute the 'March to the Sea' from Atlanta, his only option was to 'live off the land'. Yes, it was his intention to 'make Georgia/south Carolina howl' and he did. Most don't realize the deep South was in fact vitually 'untouched' by the affects of the war on the front lines. Mary Chestnut's diaries make it very clear, once she left Richmond in that final eight months. The Union controlled New Orleans, but not the countryside around it. The Union blockaded Charleston, but never controlled it throughout most of the war. Same for every other Atlantic port, til Sherman took them from LANDWARD.

As for taking from the population...see Lee's second invasion of the North, see Jubal Early's late foray into the Washington DC vicinity near the end of the war. They did the same thing, more or less. Though they didn't burn to the ground storage facilities, rail yards, etc.

You bet Sherman burnt to the ground the Aristocrats gigantic homes when he came upon them. As we discussed earlier, it was they that insisted on codifying slavery in the CSA Constitution. It was they that benefited from it the most.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-13   10:32:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: sneakypete (#130)

It still doesn't matter because slavery was NOT the centerpiece of the war from the point of view of the aggressive forces of the north.

Actually, thats simply not true, as diaries, journals, statements from the administration, statements from the Brits and French demonstrate conclusively.

From their point of view, it was about Slavery in one key aspect or another, depending on which of the above you wish to discuss.

Brits wouldn't intervene because of it. Nor would the French, but they were more circumspect due to their own interests in taking over Mexico at that time. Look it up, 'Frances mad emperor' of the time frame.

Even Jefferson Davis worried what they would have to do about the French AFTER the war was won, as did Judah Benjamin, his Secretary of State.

Yes, the North did strongly encourage immigrants - from Ireland, Germany, France, various colonies throughout Africa, to enlist and thereby gain citizenship upon completion of service, along with a pension btw.

Its worth noting those immigrants couldn't fathom fighting for a nation that would, in REALITY, enslave THEM if given half a chance. They were fleeing Europe where they lived in similiar conditions. See 1860 Liverpool England for a good example.

Lincoln was about 'preserving the Union' at all costs.

The CSA was about 'preserving the Antebellum Southern way of Life'. That 'life' could not be realized without the institution of Slavery, or so they thought at the moment they signed the CSA Constitution. Thats why it codified slavery.

Had they given more thought, they would have realized 'share cropping' provided the same thing, more or less, without the worldwide STIGMA.

And maybe won the war. JMHO.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-13   10:42:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#137. To: sneakypete (#131)

They weren't fighting for slavery. They were fighting for their homes and for self-rule.

I can't remember the name now,but one Yankee officer is said to have asked a CSA enlisted man why he was fighting when it was obvious he couldn't afford to own slaves,and the man replied "Because you are here."

Its true, the vast majority of those in the CSA armies were not slave owners. But lets not forget they almost to a man believed blacks were in fact 'sub human' or the more enlightened, like Robert E Lee believed 'they are not ready for full citizenship due to their stage of development'.

The quote you are talking about is found in Shelby Foote's triology 'The Civil War' btw.

The irony is found in the fact the Union army wouldn't have 'been there' had the hotheads of the South not voted for a sucession that was doomed to failure based upon a Constitution that carried the seeds of its own defeat because it went so far in favor of 'States Rights' that in the end it couldn't defend itself fully.

Thats also found in Shelby Foote's triology, btw.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-13   10:46:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: no gnu taxes (#134)

Actually, there was a large minority that held it was a sin to enslave any human. If there wasn't, Lincoln never would have won the nomination in 1860, let alone the election itself.

He was very clear on his view of slavery as an evil institution throughout the proceeding decade, and throughout the Lincoln/Douglas debates.

His victory in the 1860 election cycle demonstrates how strong the feeling was when the votes were tallied.

Thats not to be confused with the populations view of blacks, overall, however.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-13   10:49:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#139. To: Badeye (#135)

You are confusing Grant with Sherman here. In effect, two very different theaters of operation. Grant had a magnificent supply base, the largest ever created in the history of warfare up to that time, located at City Point. Shipping came directly from the Atlantic to the docks there. Trains had access as well. Grants 'supply line' was measured in YARDS more or less, from the point supplies were embarked upon the docks, or train yards.

I am more than familiar with both, and either old age or my Parkinson's caused me to confuse the two. I have been a CW buff for years, with lots of books. My focus has been Forrest, and I have 9 of his biographies.

Sherman's supply lines were more or less none existent once past Kennesaw Mountain, and measured in hundreds of miles. To execute the 'March to the Sea' from Atlanta, his only option was to 'live off the land'. Yes, it was his intention to 'make Georgia/south Carolina howl' and he did. Most don't realize the deep South was in fact vitually 'untouched' by the affects of the war on the front lines. Mary Chestnut's diaries make it very clear, once she left Richmond in that final eight months. The Union controlled New Orleans, but not the countryside around it. The Union blockaded Charleston, but never controlled it throughout most of the war. Same for every other Atlantic port, til Sherman took them from LANDWARD.

I can appreciate Sherman destroying anything that could be construed as logistics for the CSA, and even the large homes. However, Sherman's army went much further and even took or destroyed the food Southern women, children and the aged needed to survive. Scarlet eating roots to survive was for real.

As for taking from the population...see Lee's second invasion of the North, see Jubal Early's late foray into the Washington DC vicinity near the end of the war. They did the same thing, more or less. Though they didn't burn to the ground storage facilities, rail yards, etc.

A forty mile swath? I don't think so.

You bet Sherman burnt to the ground the Aristocrats gigantic homes when he came upon them. As we discussed earlier, it was they that insisted on codifying slavery in the CSA Constitution. It was they that benefited from it the most.

I think you realize Sherman went much further.

"Maj. Gen. William T. Sherman, resting his troops in Savannah, declared, “When I go through South Carolina, it will be one of the most horrible things in the history of the world. The devil himself couldn’t restrain my men in that state.”

"Sherman’s cavalry commander, Brig. Gen. Hugh Judson Kilpatrick reportedly spent $5,000 in Savannah for matches for his troopers. Kilpatrick, better known as “Kill Cav” for his rashness in battle that got his own men killed, was obnoxious, boastful, and a notorious womanizer. At Savannah, he told his corps, “In after years when travelers passing through South Carolina shall see chimney stacks without houses, and the country desolate, and shall ask who did this? Some Yankee will answer: Kilpatrick’s Cavalry!” His men would soon leave a scorched swath across South Carolina burning homes, farms, mill, forests, and even churches.

OBAMA HAS SPENT MORE MONEY THAN ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND.

GarySpFC  posted on  2010-04-14   23:49:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: GarySpFC (#139)

1. Didn't claim Early created a '40 mile swath'. Said he and Lee both lived off the land. Thats accurate. We both know this.

2. Agree completely about Kilpatrick - apt nickname as we both know.

3. Sucession began in South Carolina. Given that, its amazing Sherman left ANYTHING standing after 600,000 dead, 1.2 million wounded.

4. Scarlet was a character created in a novel. Mary Chestnut was a real, living, Southern Belle of the aristocracy. Yes, there were hardships, horrific ones. But the poor in the South were the poor in the South BEFORE the war. And barely got by. Southern Aristocracy was hardly renowned for 'charity' prior to the war, as I'm pretty sure you realize. Far from it. It had more than a bit of 'let them eat cake' attitude.

By the fourth year of the war, it became crystal clear there was only one of two ways to bring it to an end. Take the Democrats platform of 1864 which called for a peace that allowed the CSA to become a seperate nation complete with the institution of Slavery. Or, gutted the South, bring the horror of war to those plantations in the Deep South that were virtually 'untouched' since the war began, and thereby end the cottage industry that was supporting the CSA war effort.

We can decry how it was done, the bringing about of the worst war in American history til the cows come home. But the ugly truth is that method worked, after four years of failed efforts. And as we both know, it became the model for 20th Century warfare around the world. Many of the same principals are still valid, and practiced today. With good reason.

It worked.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-15   9:50:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#141. To: Boofer (#140) (Edited)

Take the Democrats platform of 1864 which called for a peace that allowed the CSA to become a seperate nation complete with the institution of Slavery. Or

Here's the 1864 Democrat Party Platform, Boof. care to guess what's missing?

~~~~~~~~

Resolved, That in the future, as in the past, we will adhere with unswerving fidelity to the Union under the Constitution as the only solid foundation of our strength, security, and happiness as a people, and as a framework of government equally conducive to the welfare and prosperity of all the States, both Northern and Southern.

Resolved, That this convention does explicitly declare, as the sense of the American people, that after four years of failure to restore the Union by the experiment of war, during which, under the pretense of a military necessity of war-power higher than the Constitution, the Constitution itself has been disregarded in every part, and public liberty and private right alike trodden down, and the material prosperity of the country essentially impaired, justice, humanity, liberty, and the public welfare demand that immediate efforts be made for a cessation of hostilities, with a view of an ultimate convention of the States, or other peaceable means, to the end that, at the earliest practicable moment, peace may be restored on the basis of the Federal Union of the States.

Resolved, That the direct interference of the military authorities of the United States in the recent elections held in Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, and Delaware was a shameful violation of the Constitution, and a repetition of such acts in the approaching election will be held as revolutionary, and resisted with all the means and power under our control.

Resolved, That the aim and object of the Democratic party is to preserve the Federal Union and the rights of the States unimpaired, and they hereby declare that they consider that the administrative usurpation of extraordinary and dangerous powers not granted by the Constitution — the subversion of the civil by military law in States not in insurrection; the arbitrary military arrest, imprisonment, trial, and sentence of American citizens in States where civil law exists in full force; the suppression of freedom of speech and of the press; the denial of the right of asylum; the open and avowed disregard of State rights; the employment of unusual test-oaths; and the interference with and denial of the right of the people to bear arms in their defense is calculated to prevent a restoration of the Union and the perpetuation of a Government deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed.

Resolved, That the shameful disregard of the Administration to its duty in respect to our fellow citizens who now are and long have been prisoners of war and in a suffering condition, deserves the severest reprobation on the score alike of public policy and common humanity.

Resolved, That the sympathy of the Democratic party is heartily and earnestly extended to the soldiery of our army and sailors of our navy, who are and have been in the field and on the sea under the flag of our country, and, in the events of its attaining power, they will receive all the care, protection, and regard that the brave soldiers and sailors of the republic have so nobly earned.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOURCE: Reprinted in Donald Bruce Johnson, comp., National Party Platforms, vol. 1, 1840-1956, rev. ed. (Urbana: University of Illinois Press, 1978), pages 34-35.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-15   10:00:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#142. To: war (#141)

Patriots have no use for facts.

Bartcoprules  posted on  2010-04-15   10:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: Bartcoprules (#142)

And rive by posters like yourself just take up bandwidth.

my anti groupie can't get through life without me.

Badeye  posted on  2010-04-15   10:07:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: Bopofer, Badrtcoprules (#143) (Edited)

And rive by posters

You're a "rive by poster"? Cool...do you have meetings and t-shirts and other cool things?

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-15   10:20:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#145. To: Bartcoprules (#142)

The "fact" is that when conjecture contemporary to the adoption of that platform interpreted the platform as impling what Boof is advocating, McClellan went public and repudiated that interpretation. He said that the war should continue on to a conclusion and slavery abolished.

#67. To: war (#48) Keep hiding behind the bozo, bozo. (laughing) You've always been a world class pussy. Badeye posted on 2010-01-14 16:12:48 ET Reply Trace

war  posted on  2010-04-15   10:23:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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