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War in Ukraine Turns on Russia what happened during total solar eclipse Israel Attacks Iran, Report Says - LIVE Breaking News Coverage Earth is Scorched with Heat Antiwar Activists Chant ‘Death to America’ at Event Featuring Chicago Alderman Vibe Shift A stream that makes the pleasant Rain sound. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Corrupt Government See other Corrupt Government Articles Title: 20 Way ObamaCare will Take Away Our Freedoms Source: Investors Business Daily URL Source: http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/capitalhill.htm Published: Mar 23, 2010 Author: David Hogberg Post Date: 2010-03-23 15:17:06 by Get Outta Dodge! Keywords: None Views: 48833 Comments: 161 20 Way ObamaCare will Take Away Our Freedoms By David Hogberg Sun., March 21, '10 3:24 PM ET Tags: Health Care - ObamaCare - Freedom With House Democrats poised to pass the Senate health care bill with some reconciliation changes later today, it is worthwhile to take a comprehensive look at the freedoms we will lose. Of course, the overhaul is supposed to provide us with security. But it will result in skyrocketing insurance costs and physicians leaving the field in droves, making it harder to afford and find medical care. We may be about to live Benjamin Franklin’s adage, “People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” The sections described below are taken from HR 3590 as agreed to by the Senate and from the reconciliation bill as displayed by the Rules Committee. 1. You are young and don’t want health insurance? You are starting up a small business and need to minimize expenses, and one way to do that is to forego health insurance? Tough. You have to pay $750 annually for the “privilege.” (Section 1501) 2. You are young and healthy and want to pay for insurance that reflects that status? Tough. You’ll have to pay for premiums that cover not only you, but also the guy who smokes three packs a day, drink a gallon of whiskey and eats chicken fat off the floor. That’s because insurance companies will no longer be able to underwrite on the basis of a person’s health status. (Section 2701). 3. You would like to pay less in premiums by buying insurance with lifetime or annual limits on coverage? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer such policies, even if that is what customers prefer. (Section 2711). 4. Think you’d like a policy that is cheaper because it doesn’t cover preventive care or requires cost-sharing for such care? Tough. Health insurers will no longer be able to offer policies that do not cover preventive services or offer them with cost-sharing, even if that’s what the customer wants. (Section 2712). 5. You are an employer and you would like to offer coverage that doesn’t allow your employees’ slacker children to stay on the policy until age 26? Tough. (Section 2714). 6. You must buy a policy that covers ambulatory patient services, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity and newborn care, mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment; prescription drugs; rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices; laboratory services; preventive and wellness services; chronic disease management; and pediatric services, including oral and vision care. You’re a single guy without children? Tough, your policy must cover pediatric services. You’re a woman who can’t have children? Tough, your policy must cover maternity services. You’re a teetotaler? Tough, your policy must cover substance abuse treatment. (Add your own violation of personal freedom here.) (Section 1302). 7. Do you want a plan with lots of cost-sharing and low premiums? Well, the best you can do is a “Bronze plan,” which has benefits that provide benefits that are actuarially equivalent to 60% of the full actuarial value of the benefits provided under the plan. Anything lower than that, tough. (Section 1302 (d) (1) (A)) 8. You are an employer in the small-group insurance market and you’d like to offer policies with deductibles higher than $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families? Tough. (Section 1302 (c) (2) (A). 9. If you are a large employer (defined as at least 50 employees) and you do not want to provide health insurance to your employee, then you will pay a $750 fine per employee (It could be $2,000 to $3,000 under the reconciliation changes). Think you know how to better spend that money? Tough. (Section 1513). 10. You are an employer who offers health flexible spending arrangements and your employees want to deduct more than $2,500 from their salaries for it? Sorry, can’t do that. (Section 9005 (i)). 11. If you are a physician and you don’t want the government looking over your shoulder? Tough. The Secretary of Health and Human Services is authorized to use your claims data to issue you reports that measure the resources you use, provide information on the quality of care you provide, and compare the resources you use to those used by other physicians. Of course, this will all be just for informational purposes. It’s not like the government will ever use it to intervene in your practice and patients’ care. Of course not. (Section 3003 (i)) 12. If you are a physician and you want to own your own hospital, you must be an owner and have a “Medicare provider agreement” by Feb. 1, 2010. (Dec. 31, 2010 in the reconciliation changes.) If you didn’t have those by then, you are out of luck. (Section 6001 (i) (1) (A)) 13. If you are a physician owner and you want to expand your hospital? Well, you can’t (Section 6001 (i) (1) (B). Unless, it is located in a country where, over the last five years, population growth has been 150% of what it has been in the state (Section 6601 (i) (3) ( E)). And then you cannot increase your capacity by more than 200% (Section 6001 (i) (3) (C)). 14. You are a health insurer and you want to raise premiums to meet costs? Well, if that increase is deemed “unreasonable” by the Secretary of Health and Human Services it will be subject to review and can be denied. (Section 1003) 15. The government will extract a fee of $2.3 billion annually from the pharmaceutical industry. If you are a pharmaceutical company what you will pay depends on the ratio of the number of brand-name drugs you sell to the total number of brand-name drugs sold in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the brand-name drugs in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2.3 billion, or $230,000,000. (Under reconciliation, it starts at $2.55 billion, jumps to $3 billion in 2012, then to $3.5 billion in 2017 and $4.2 billion in 2018, before settling at $2.8 billion in 2019 (Section 1404)). Think you, as a pharmaceutical executive, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 9008 (b)). 16. The government will extract a fee of $2 billion annually from medical device makers. If you are a medical device maker what you will pay depends on your share of medical device sales in the U.S. So, if you sell 10% of the medical devices in the U.S., what you pay will be 10% multiplied by $2 billion, or $200,000,000. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for R&D? Tough. (Section 9009 (b)). The reconciliation package turns that into a 2.9% excise tax for medical device makers. Think you, as a medical device maker, know how to better use that money, say for research and development? Tough. (Section 1405). 17. The government will extract a fee of $6.7 billion annually from insurance companies. If you are an insurer, what you will pay depends on your share of net premiums plus 200% of your administrative costs. So, if your net premiums and administrative costs are equal to 10% of the total, you will pay 10% of $6.7 billion, or $670,000,000. In the reconciliation bill, the fee will start at $8 billion in 2014, $11.3 billion in 2015, $1.9 billion in 2017, and $14.3 billion in 2018 (Section 1406).Think you, as an insurance executive, know how to better spend that money? Tough.(Section 9010 (b) (1) (A and B).) 18. If an insurance company board or its stockholders think the CEO is worth more than $500,000 in deferred compensation? Tough.(Section 9014). 19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015). That amount will rise to a 3.8% tax if reconciliation passes. It will also apply to investment income, estates, and trusts. You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Like you need to ask. (Section 1402). 20. If you go for cosmetic surgery, you will pay an additional 5% tax on the cost of the procedure. Think you know how to spend that money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9017). Welcome Power Line, Fark.com and Big Government readers. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#0) 19. You will have to pay an additional 0.5% payroll tax on any dollar you make over $250,000 if you file a joint return and $200,000 if you file an individual return. What? You think you know how to spend the money you earned better than the government? Tough. (Section 9015). A half a percent tax on every dollar over $200,000 earned, man that is tough! lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-23   20:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: lucysmom (#1) A half a percent tax on every dollar over $200,000 earned, man that is tough! Does that mean I'll only be clearing $.995 instead of $1.00? The bastards! "I’ll just tell you this, if this passes and it’s five years from now and all that stuff gets implemented — I am leaving the country. I’ll go to Costa Rica!" -Rush Limbaugh Skip Intro  posted on  2010-03-23   20:49:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: Skip Intro, lucysmom (#2) At least Mussolini made the trains run on time. Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-23   21:22:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#3) At least Mussolini made the trains run on time. At least they had trains to run. Here on the west coast we've got nothing. "I’ll just tell you this, if this passes and it’s five years from now and all that stuff gets implemented — I am leaving the country. I’ll go to Costa Rica!" -Rush Limbaugh Skip Intro  posted on  2010-03-23   21:26:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Skip Intro (#4) (Edited) I stopped at #2 if the first two were wrong the chances of any that followed being correct were slim to none. And, PS Investors.com, Congress sits on CAPITOL HILL... Day 30 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 28 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-23   21:35:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: Skip Intro (#4) Hey...you have BART and TED and The Big Blue Bus!!! Day 30 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 28 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-23   21:37:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: war (#5) (Edited) I stopped at #2 if the first two were wrong the chances of any that followed being correct were slim to none. Who writes this stuff? Most people get their health insurance through their employers. The only choices they have are to sign on or not, and what doctor to choose from the approved list. And the doctor wanting to buy or expand a hospital example - if that isn't a deal breaker for me, then I don't know what is. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-23   22:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: Get Outta Dodge!, WAR, Lucysmom (#0) People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both What "temporary" security have we had to date when it comes to health care? I lost a close relative recently. He had a heart attack at a relatively young age. His employer (a small company) apparently saw skyrocketing premiums in front of them, so the CEO laid off my relative a few years ago--just a reduction in force, nothing to do with my relative's health care crisis (wink, wink, nod, nod). My relative couldn't afford COBRA and couldn't find any other reasonably priced insurance on his own--especially since he was unemployed. His health care crisis ultimately meant that he ran into money troubles, which affected his credit score and hurt him while looking for a job (potential employers check FICO scores). Anyway, after a long time of menial employment, living with his mother, and visits to the emergency room, he died. Yup, that's the kind of health-care system we need to keep on a-goin'. Yeah, his death smacks of political and economic freedom (not). Suzanne  posted on  2010-03-23   23:38:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Suzanne (#8) (Edited) I'm sorry for your loss. I truly am. But since you seem to wish to make policy based on anecdotes, will you allow me to cite one too? I live in the US but somewhat near the Canadian border (I won't get more specific than that.) Several years ago, my then 80 something year old mother was in need of a CAT scan. Her doctor wrote her a prescription, and within a week she had one. I should note that this occurred in a rural area, and the hospital where the CAT scan took place was in a town of about 10,000 residents. The nearest city of any size is 40 miles away. It has about 250,000 residents. The reason I mention Canada? Well, when I took mom for her appointment, I struck up a conversation with some of the staff people. Indeed, I realized that CAT scans must be expensive and all - and I was somewhat surprised my mom was getting one. Someone remarked something like " well, it's a good thing you're not in Canada - cause there'd be a six month wait at least (if she qualified), and you'd probably have to travel to Toronto." Now, please understand. I'm not mentioning this to minimize your loss. It's just that it is ALWAYS bad policy to base laws on individual anecdotes. Because when you get down to it - for every instance one side can cite, the other side can cite one in opposition. Where does that get us - really? Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   0:40:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#9) Where does that get us - really? Our free will, and right to choose will be gone...forever! Murron  posted on  2010-03-24   0:44:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: Murron (#10) Where does that get us - really? Our free will, and right to choose will be gone...forever! I know. I'm not faulting Suzanne here - but it made me sick when dems were exploiting that 11 year old boy who lost his mother. I really believe these people will stop at nothing to get what they want. Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   0:49:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#9) As long as we're trading stories, a friend's doctor ordered a CAT scan and her insurance wouldn't approve it. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   0:57:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: Suzanne (#8) I am sorry. There are aspects of our system that just don't make sense. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   1:26:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: Get Outta Dodge!, Murron (#11) Our free will, and right to choose will be gone...forever! Neither mean much when you are sick or dead. I really believe these people will stop at nothing to get what they want. And what is it that we want? The same health care for our loved ones that your mother got. Its none of my business and you don't have to answer, but I can't help wondering, did Medicare pay for the CAT scan? lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   1:38:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: lucysmom (#14) Neither mean much when you are sick or dead. My ancestors survived just fine without government interference where medical and charity help was needed, whether their choices were right or wrong, they still belonged to them, not the KING! There are tens of thousands of insurrance companies to choose from, and millions of different options to pick and choose from, some are better than others, like any choice you make in everyday. I do not want it DICTATED to me what doctor I see, what treatment I can and cannot have. I do not want their 'assisted suicide', 'hospises' where the aged are sent to DIE, I choose to die at home when my time comes. What makes you think for one moment these COMMUNISTS will stop at Health Care? Murron  posted on  2010-03-24   2:03:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: Get Outta Dodge!, ALL (#0) "20 Way ObamaCare will Take Away Our Freedoms" "When government starts taking over private enterprise, it's COMMUNISM. Socialism is the buzzword they use because they know it's more palatable to the people, but make no mistake, this is just as totalitarian as Russia or China ever thought of being. With the laws they now have on the books there is virtually no aspect of your life they can't control. America...land of the free and home of the brave has become a sad joke." ~ freedomsnotfree Murron  posted on  2010-03-24   2:19:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: Murron (#16) I think that it is high time we all bought up as much stock in the FIREARMS COMPANIES as possible so that we patriots can gain control of them and "Gun Control" "Progressive" Thugocracies like the Fed "Alphabet" agencies, Commiefornia, Taxachussets, Chicago and New York in reverse (By refusing them firerarms sales and repair services until they clean up their Second Amendment act). This has replaced Jesuitism as my major issue since becomming an active poster again. (These days I don't see the totalitarian problem coming from ANY specific racial or religious group like Jews, Catholics, Mislems, Blacks, etc. It comes soully from PROGRESSIVISM and there are both "Progressives" and patriots in all of these religions and racial groups. You may not like Glenn Beck because of some of the beliefs he might hold on 9-11 and the Obama birth certificate issue but he is a very good and even handed teacher in the history of the Totalitarian problem which in a single word is "PROGRESSIVISM".) Oh what a DUFFLE-HEAD that Barack Obama is !!! Duffle-Head (As used in a Felix the Cat cartoon) A wicked person of limited intelegence but with pretenses of intelectual grandeur. Their only successful endevors are usually the invention of self punishment machines. Coral Snake  posted on  2010-03-24   3:47:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: lucysmom (#12) As long as we're trading stories, a friend's doctor ordered a CAT scan and her insurance wouldn't approve it. Was it for a potentially life-threatening condition, or did the doctor order it to shield him/herself from a potential malpractice lawsuit? Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   6:09:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: lucysmom (#13) There are aspects of our system that just don't make sense. In what "system" is that not true? Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   6:10:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: lucysmom (#14) Its none of my business and you don't have to answer, but I can't help wondering, did Medicare pay for the CAT scan? That and the "Medi-gap" insurance policy my mom and dad had. I answered your question, now please answer mine: How does adding 30 plus million people to an already strapped system (waited long in a waiting-room lately?) lower costs and improve health care? Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   6:16:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#9) Putting aside the fact that Canada is not a valid model as their system is based at the provincial level, the clinics in Sherbrooke and Magog are full of Vermont residents seeking healthcare... Day 30 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 28 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   6:49:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#20) How does adding 30 plus million people to an already strapped system (waited long in a waiting-room lately?) lower costs and improve health care? Potting aside the fact that for the first time these people will actually be paying something into the system, not all 30MM will get sick at the same time and if they do the situation would be so dire it wouldn t matter anyway. Day 30 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 28 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   6:51:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: lucysmom (#7) Who writes this stuff? Morons writing for suckers... Day 30 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 28 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   6:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: lucysmom (#14) I really believe these people will stop at nothing to get what they want. And what is it that we want? The same health care for our loved ones that your mother got. Tell you what: Let's really go for broke! Let's all DEMAND that we get the health care that CONGRESS gets. Think that'll happen? It's fair, isn't it? Isn't everything in life supposed to be fair? I can see the millions demonstrating outside the halls of Congress now: WHAT DO WE WANT: Your heath care! WHEN DO WE WANT IT: Now! Obammy sez it I believes it an' that settles it! Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   7:00:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: lucysmom, Get Outta Dodge!, Murron, war (#13) There are aspects of our system that just don't make sense. I agree. I see my relative's story as representative of so many others and not just a sad personal story. When half of all personal bankruptcies are linked to health care costs and debts, then we have an unsustainable system. And as far as being told what doctor to see or what procedure is approved, if you're lucky enough to have health insurance, the insurance company will decide that. If you have a personal health insurance policy, things are even tougher. These private plans don't have to follow the rules that apply to group plans and if you get sick, your insurance company can drop you. And if they drop you, it's unlikely any other insurance company will accept you, making you uninsurable. I just can't get nostalgic for that type of health care system. Suzanne  posted on  2010-03-24   10:19:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: Suzanne (#25) (Edited) The morons in this debate are the ones - like G.O.D. - who believe that we can get healthcare on demand in this nation. I have a dozen horror stories of my own...from my daughter's Lisfranc to my son's broken leg to my own broken legs to my brother in law having to pay our of pocket for a nuclear stress... It's moronic to believe that this debate centered around a health care system that was at the pinnacle of pro and "e" - fficiency... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   10:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: war (#26) pro and "e" - fficiency... Good one. Suzanne  posted on  2010-03-24   10:32:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Suzanne (#27) You doing any events? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   10:36:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: Suzanne (#25) I just can't get nostalgic for that type of health care system. Don't worry. You will "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   10:39:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Murron (#16) When government starts taking over private enterprise, it's COMMUNISM. Socialism is the buzzword they use because they know it's more palatable to the people, but make no mistake, this is just as totalitarian as Russia or China ever thought of being. Communism and Socialism are not necessarily totalitarian, nor is Capitalism necessarily free and Democratic. Without a moment's hesitation I would have picked Denmark and its Socialism over Pinochet's Chile, and its free market Capitalism as a place to live. If the US was just as "totalitarian as Russia or China ever thought of", you and I would both have been sent off to the gulags by now. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   10:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: lucysmom (#7) Most people get their health insurance through their employers. 20% unemployment rate in real numbers...and I question the validity of the statement overall. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   10:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: Suzanne (#8) Right. Its the employers fault your relative had a fatal heart attack years after he was let go. Riiiight. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   10:49:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: lucysmom (#14) Our free will, and right to choose will be gone...forever! Neither mean much when you are sick or dead. Most of us posting are alive and reasonably well....dumb assertion. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   10:50:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#18) or did the doctor order it to shield him/herself from a potential malpractice lawsuit? Bingo. Same for the ultra expensive use of MRI's. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   10:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: lucysmom (#30) Without a moment's hesitation I would have picked Denmark Without our "capitalism" (such as it was), Denmark (and the rest of Europe) would be living under a different kind of socialism right now. National Socialism You know - the guy with the funny mustache? "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   10:57:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#35) (Edited) Nazi Germany was as capitalist as they come...it's also why they were fascist... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   10:59:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#35) (Edited) National Socialism Had nothing to do with Economics... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:00:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Coral Snake (#17) This has replaced Jesuitism as my major issue since becomming an active poster again. That's good news to hear, CS. Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   11:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Fred Mertz (#38) Did you understand what he meant? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:02:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Boofer (#31) (Edited) ...and I question the validity of the statement overall. If only because what she stated is true... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: war (#39) Yes, he used to accuse the Jesuits of being the carburetor of the NWO/Globalism, etc. It made for interesting reading. CS is passionate in his beliefs and opinions, I give him respect for that, even if he might be out in left field. Now he is ready to take on the PROGRESSIVES. Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   11:08:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#20) How does adding 30 plus million people to an already strapped system (waited long in a waiting-room lately?) lower costs and improve health care? As to "strapped system" - I've spent many an hour waiting with my elderly father in the local ER (if one is taken by ambulance, no wait time). "Lower costs" - One way or another, we pay. We pay in higher costs when patients can't pay their bill for instance. The issue behind your questions seems to be rationing of medical care. I take it you are in support of rationing as long as its not your care that's being rationed. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:10:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Fred Mertz (#41) My youngest is being taught by Jesuits... Hal Turner's kid attends the same school. Should I be worried? Or does that balance it out? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:15:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: lucysmom (#42) As to "strapped system" - I've spent many an hour waiting with my elderly father in the local ER Get used to waiting a lot longer as it is a certainty that there will be a lot fewer doctors willing to practice under this system, and the ones that that do will be a lot less qualified (non English speaking graduates of Bob's Haitian School of Medicine) dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-24   11:17:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: war (#43) Should I be worried? I wouldn't worry too much. CS may have a different opinion. Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   11:18:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: lucysmom (#42) (Edited) As to "strapped system" - I've spent many an hour waiting with my elderly father in the local ER (if one is taken by ambulance, no wait time). Back in 2004, I laid in a hospital bed for three days waiting to have the surgery on my broken leg that I was told was so vital that I couldn't go get a second opinion as I had to have it within 24 hours of the injury. Thank whatever Sky Ghost you deem appropraite for morphine drips... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:19:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: dont eat that (#44) Get used to waiting a lot longer as it is a certainty that there will be a lot fewer doctors willing to practice under this system What are they going to do? Become auto mechanics? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:20:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Fred Mertz (#45) Thanks...PHEW... You're a better person than me, btw. A moonbat is a moonbat...a Boofer is a Boofer...no matter how passionate... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: Suzanne (#25) I just can't get nostalgic for that type of health care system. Me either. A friend's husband, uninsurable because he'd had a heart valve replacement, committed suicide when his new valve began to fail, rather than put his family through bankruptcy. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:22:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#29) "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." I like the post office. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:24:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: war (#47) Ask them 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-24   11:27:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: lucysmom (#42) The issue behind your questions seems to be rationing of medical care. I take it you are in support of rationing as long as its not your care that's being rationed. I would love to live in a world where we all get the healthcare we need, when we need it, at the lowest possible cost. Can we all agree that that world does not exist, has never existed, and will never exist? Because if we can't agree on that, then there's no point in discussing this futher. Most of us (me, anyway) agree that our healthcare system has/had problems. Incremental changes could have been tried. But since socialized medicine has been a democrat wet-dream since FDR, and Zero, Harry and Nancy saw their chance to finally achieve it, they've done it. Even though they had to say "damn the Constitution, full speed ahead" they ended up getting what they wanted. Politically, I cannot fault them for that. Oh they'll pay a short term price, but with amnesty on the horizon, the price will be short lived. We have the first brick in the foundation - and within 10 years, we will have single-payer socialized medicine. And, short of bankrupcy, we can never go back. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   11:27:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: lucysmom (#50) I like the post office. Take it up with Obama, then. He's the one who stated they were having problems "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   11:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: Badeye (#31) 20% unemployment rate in real numbers...and I question the validity of the statement overall. "The share of Americans with employment-based coverage continued to erode for the eighth year in a row from 59.3% of Americans covered in 2007 to 58.5% in 2008." www.epi.org/publications/.../health_picture_20090910/ lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:32:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#52) (Edited) I would love to live in a world where we all get the healthcare we need, when we need it, at the lowest possible cost. What does the phrase "more perfect" mean to you? It seems somewhat oxymoronic does it not? Is it metaphorical for a system that will continually progress toward or strive for perfection for perpetuity? It is moronic to throw up your hands and live with mediocity because you believe that penultimate is the best that you can hope for. Something has to be second to something. And as long as you believe that something exists beyond what HAS BEEN attained, there is no reason to stop. You could find that what you discovered beyond was not ultimate but simply another stop along the trail. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:33:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: lucysmom (#54) Fair enough. Thanks. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   11:35:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: Badeye, Get Outta Dodge! (#34) or did the doctor order it to shield him/herself from a potential malpractice lawsuit? Bingo. Same for the ultra expensive use of MRI's. My friend is still alive, still undiagnosed, and still living with debilitating pain, two years later. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: lucysmom (#57) Glad to here your friend is still alive. Now thats been said, any comment on why Doctors are forced to order extremely expensive tests due to insane malpractice lawsuits? my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   11:38:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: Badeye (#58) Now thats been said, any comment on why Doctors are forced to order extremely expensive tests due to insane malpractice lawsuits? Yea...the comment is "Wha...huh"? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   11:40:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: lucysmom (#50) I like the post office. So does the union representing the Postal Employees. Do you like the fact its lost hundreds of billions of tax dollars? That its never come close to 'breaking even'? We should have privatized it decades ago. The biggest irony is the only Postal Service to break even/turn a profit was between 1860 and 1865. In the Confederate States of America. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   11:40:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#35) Without our "capitalism" (such as it was), Denmark (and the rest of Europe) would be living under a different kind of socialism right now. Denmark ranks 9th on The Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, the US is 8th. National Socialism You know - the guy with the funny mustache? I guess China is Republican, you know, People's Republic of China. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:40:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #62. To: war (#36) Nazi Germany was as capitalist as they come...it's also why they were fascist... Its a credit to education in the US that people commonly confuse political systems with economic systems. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:54:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #63. To: lucysmom (#61) Denmark ranks 9th on The Heritage Foundation's Index of Economic Freedom, the US is 8th. That's nice for Denmark, but you do realize that with 5,534,738 people, it ranks 109th in the list of countries of the world in population. The US is 3rd on that same list, at almost 309,000,000 people. I guess China is Republican, you know, People's Republic of China. You may not be far wrong. "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   11:54:57 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #64. To: war (#43) My youngest is being taught by Jesuits... So was Jerry Brown and you know what they call him. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   11:58:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #65. To: Benjamin Franklin Boofer (#60) Geezus fuck boofer...the USPS HAS turned a profit several times in its history...as recently as two or three years ago.... Why do you insist on believing that your level of general knowledge dwells in reality? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:01:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #66. To: lucysmom (#64) Chyea...trust me when I tell you that my youngest is Alex Keaton. He's had a paper route since he was 10...he wheels and deals on ebay...and he's very good hockey player too... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:02:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #67. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#63) That's nice for Denmark, but you do realize that with 5,534,738 people, it ranks 109th in the list of countries of the world in population. That's nice for all of us...but what does that have to do with anything? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:03:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #68. To: lucysmom (#64) They were correct about Moonbeam. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:04:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #69. To: lucysmom (#62) The irony is that poster is a Titan of Wall Street! in his mind, anyway. (laughing) my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:05:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #70. To: Badeye (#68) (Edited) They called him "Moonbeam" because, among other things, he advocated exploring the unviverse and envisioned that the use of satellite technology would become a mainstream method of communication as if it was some kind of nutty idea. The columnist who put that tag on him...I think the guy's name was Mike Royco...later wrote a column apologizing for it and conceded that Brown, at the time was visionary. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:10:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #71. To: war (#28) You doing any events? I'm not sure, but will have to make a decision soon. I started a new job last fall and I've been crazy busy. So, I'm concerned about getting in enough training time. How 'bout you? Suzanne  posted on  2010-03-24   12:11:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #72. To: lucysmom (#62) (Edited) It's a credit to education in the US that people commonly confuse political systems with economic systems. Chyea... In a general system in which wealth provides a gateway to both influence and participation in government, it's a by product of man's natural tendency to be corrupt to use both as a means of one to advance the other. And while I would caution anyone towards temperance when describing us as a fascist nation, it is indisputable that corporatism, which we most definitely are, WILL give way to fascism. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:13:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #73. To: war (#47) What are they going to do? Become auto mechanics? Heh... at least auto mechanics don't get to bury their mistakes. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   12:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #74. To: dont eat that (#44) Get used to waiting a lot longer as it is a certainty that there will be a lot fewer doctors willing to practice under this system... I have never met a doctor who was happy to deal with insurance companies to get paid. Moreover, the other advanced nations provide comprehensive coverage to their entire populations, while the U.S. leaves 46.3 million completely uninsured and millions more inadequately covered. The reason we spend more and get less than the rest of the world is because we have a patchwork system of for-profit payers. Private insurers necessarily waste health dollars on things that have nothing to do with care: overhead, underwriting, billing, sales and marketing departments as well as huge profits and exorbitant executive pay. Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. Combined, this needless administration consumes one-third (31 percent) of Americans’ health dollars. www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-resources#myths_facts lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #75. To: Suzanne (#71) Doin St. Anthony's down in FL on the 25th April and am looking at a couple half Ironman's this Summer. But will mostly stay local. Think I'm going to do Ironman again next year. I did enter the Kona lottery and will find out next month if I got in. If that happens...boy will my life change... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:15:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #76. To: mininggold (#73) Nope...their mistakes are the gift that keeps on giving... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:18:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #77. To: Badeye (#32) Its the employers fault your relative had a fatal heart attack years after he was let go. Not a fan of reading comprehension, I see. The heart attack was not fatal and it occurred while he was employed. His employer (a small business) was concerned about rising annual premiums because of the heart attack and got rid of my relative. The combination of long unemployment and no health insurance made my relative uninsurable and harmed his health further. That's the reality for many Americans. Suzanne  posted on  2010-03-24   12:20:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #78. To: Suzanne (#77) Not a fan of reading comprehension, I see. Or facts...or truth... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:21:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #79. To: Suzanne (#77) In 1988, Pru-Bache let a man go who contracted HIV during heart surgery...his estate sued and won under ADA... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:25:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #80. To: Suzanne (#77) I'm a fan of facts, not sob stories. You insinuated he was let go because of his failling health. How's that for 'reading comprehension' sweetie? Have a nice day. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:26:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #81. To: war (#46) Back in 2004, I laid in a hospital bed for three days waiting to have the surgery on my broken leg that I was told was so vital that I couldn't go get a second opinion as I had to have it within 24 hours of the injury. Hey best health care in the world! lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:28:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #82. To: Boofer Schweitzer, Suzanne (#80) I'm a fan of facts, not sob stories. You insinuated he was let go because of his failling health. How's that for 'reading comprehension' sweetie? Not only did she "insinuate" it, you snobbish, misogynistic, insignificant wormprick, she STATED IT OUTRIGHT. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:29:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #83. To: lucysmom (#74) Doctors and hospitals must maintain costly administrative staffs to deal with the bureaucracy. So factoring in layer upon layer of government bureaucracy is going to make things better and cheaper? What kind of dope do you need to smoke to believe that? I've never had a problem with doctor's filing insurance. I doubt it actually costs very much as the same people who do it handle many other administrative duties, too. dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-24   12:30:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #84. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#52) We have the first brick in the foundation - and within 10 years, we will have single-payer socialized medicine. I hope you're right. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:30:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #85. To: Badeye (#56) You're welcome. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:32:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #86. To: lucysmom (#81) Last May I took an eye test to renew my drivers license and guessed at half the letters...which can't be good thing for for any of us... So, I made an eye appointment..._3 month wait...son got invited to a showcase...had to cancel...2 months...doctor got sick and cancelled...4 months...had it two weeks ago... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:36:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #87. To: war (#70) They called him "Moonbeam" because, among other things, he advocated exploring the unviverse and envisioned that the use of satellite technology would become a mainstream method of communication as if it was some kind of nutty idea. He also signed for state employees collective bargaining, only he required at least two tiers of management/supervisory/confidential employees be added throughout the system in order to assure a skeleton staff in case of strikes. Of course each needed an office and a secretary and most were told to develop their own job description.... I kid you not. I saw the memos..... And saw all the former patient areas being converted to offices. Then public health came through and said there wasn't enought patient area so more building/remodeling etc ensued. I preferred the collective begging era. The biggest raise I ever got was under Reagan. But this is a large part of the Cal state employee burden that most bitch about. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   12:36:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #88. To: mininggold (#87) They called him 'Moonbeam' because of his goofball POLITICAL STANCES. Hilarious attempt at rewriting history, though. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:37:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #89. To: Badeye (#58) Now thats been said, any comment on why Doctors are forced to order extremely expensive tests due to insane malpractice lawsuits? Because that's the Capitalist way. Seriously, law suits are a free market remedy to a perceived wrong. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:37:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #90. To: lucysmom (#84) I hope you're right. I am. Let me ask you another question - not necessarily related to health care (because that issue is settled) This bill was rammed through with an end-justifies-the-means mentality. While you'd say that George Bush shit on the Constitution, Zero and his gang not only shit on it, but flushed what's left of it down the crapper. So - let me ask: What are you going to say when it's Romney or the Huckster using Zero's precedents to shit on it even further? You won't complain, will you? The end justifies the means, right? "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   12:39:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #91. To: mininggold (#87) How Jerry Brown Became ‘Governor Moonbeam’ By JESSE McKINLEY Published: March 5, 2010 Sign In to E-Mail Print Reprints Share CloseLinkedinDiggFacebookMixxMySpaceYahoo! BuzzPermalink SAN FRANCISCO — On Tuesday, when Jerry Brown — California’s once and would-be-future leader — declared he was running to win back his old job, he brought with him more than questions about his age (71) and his record of political service (40 years and counting). Enlarge This Image Jeffrey Scales/HSP Archive OWN DRUMMER Jerry Brown, when he was young, idealistic and nontraditional. Related California Ex-Governor Announces Encore Run (March 3, 2010) In California, Brown Is Said to Be Seeking His Old Job Back (March 2, 2010) Times Topic: Jerry BrownHe brought Moonbeam with him, too. For the uninitiated, ‘Governor Moonbeam’ became Mr. Brown’s intractable sobriquet, dating back to his days as governor between 1975 and 1983, when his state led the nation in pretty much everything — its economy, environmental awareness and, yes, class-A eccentrics. The nickname was coined by Mike Royko, the famed Chicago columnist, who in 1976 said that Mr. Brown appeared to be attracting “the moonbeam vote,” which in Chicago political parlance meant young, idealistic and nontraditional. The term had a nice California feel, and Mr. Royko eventually began applying it when he wrote about the Golden State’s young, idealistic and nontraditional chief executive. He found endless amusement — and sometimes outright agita — in California’s oddities, calling the state “the world’s largest outdoor mental asylum.” “If it babbles and its eyeballs are glazed,” he noted in April 1979, “it probably comes from California.” But as any New Age Californian can tell you, such hate is probably cover for a deeper love. And so it was with Mr. Royko, who after many vicious gibes at Mr. Brown’s expense offered an outright apology to the governor, and spent years trying to erase the moniker. In a 1991 column in The Chicago Tribune, he called the label, an “idiotic, damn-fool, meaningless, throw-away line,” and pleaded with people to stop using it. “Enough of this ‘Moonbeam’ stuff,” Mr. Royko concluded. “I declare it null, void and deceased.” It didn’t take. Mr. Royko died in 1997, and when Mr. Brown declared his candidacy last week, most, if not all, press accounts referred to his “Moonbeam” past. (This reporter included.) When The Sacramento Bee asked readers for potential slogans for the 2010 Brown campaign, one reader quipped: “From Moonbeam to Aspercreme.” (Suggesting that Mr. Brown, who would be the state’s oldest governor, is, like many of us, a little less limber than he once was. This reporter included.) For his part, Mr. Brown said it was initially flattering for a bigwig like Mr. Royko to write about him. “But obviously there’s a bit of frustration to have that moniker floating around for 30 years,” he said. Exactly when Mr. Royko first crowned Mr. Brown “Governor Moonbeam” is unclear. Mr. Royko said he didn’t even remember when he first landed on the phrase. He “was stringing some words together one evening to earn his day’s pay,” he wrote. But the nickname accompanied Governor Brown as he declared his fascination with outer space, proposed that California launch its own space satellite and made headlines dating the rock star Linda Ronstadt. The nickname became a whipping stick for Mr. Royko. And he flailed away as Mr. Brown was trying to convince fellow Democrats that he’d be a good presidential candidate. (His 1980 campaign slogan was “protect the earth, serve the people and explore the universe.”) Mr. Royko thought Mr. Brown would be a disaster. “I long ago gave up trying to figure out what Gov. Moonbeam stands for or believes in,” Mr. Royko wrote in April 1979, “besides getting his pretty mug on TV and confusing people into voting for him.” He added that Mr. Brown was an “intellectual hustler,” who “can jabber so nimbly that no one can figure what he’s talking about.” All of which made Mr. Royko’s epiphany even more striking. It came in 1980, at the Democratic National Convention, where Mr. Royko said that the best speech had come from — you guessed it — Governor Moonbeam. “I have to admit I gave him that unhappy label,” Mr. Royko wrote. “Because the more I see of Brown, the more I am convinced that he has been the only Democrat in this year’s politics who understands what this country will be up against.” Nicknames, like politics, can often be childish, but awfully sticky, too. California Republicans have already taken to bringing up Mr. Brown’s Moonbeam past, suggesting in a recent news release that “his unpredictable nature” makes him unsuitable for the governorship. Mr. Brown — not surprisingly — sees it differently, saying the nickname shows he’s “creative and not hidebound to the status quo.” “Moonbeam also stands for not being the insider,” said Mr. Brown. “But standing apart and marching to my own drummer. And I’ve done that.” Alain Delaquérière contributed research. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:43:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #92. To: Badeye (#88) They called him 'Moonbeam' because of his goofball POLITICAL STANCES. Hilarious attempt at rewriting history, though. I didn't rewrite anything. It's all easily researched and well, well documented. I didn't even mention why he was called Moonbeam either. Is English your second language? mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   12:43:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #93. To: All (#91) “If it babbles and its eyeballs are glazed,” he noted in April 1979, “it probably comes from California.” my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:44:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #94. To: Boofer (#88) They called him 'Moonbeam' because of his goofball POLITICAL STANCES. As Governor, Brown proposed the establishment of a state space academy and the purchasing of a satellite that would be launched into orbit to provide emergency communications for the state—a proposal similar to one that would indeed eventually be adopted by the state. In 1978 an out-of-state columnist, Mike Royko, then at the Chicago Sun-Times, nicknamed Brown "Governor Moonbeam" because of the latter idea. In 1992, almost 15 years later, Royko would disavow the nickname, proclaiming Brown to be "just as serious" as any other politician. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:45:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #95. To: lucysmom (#89) ecause that's the Capitalist way. Seriously, law suits are a free market remedy to a perceived wrong. I believe California has $250,000 limit. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   12:46:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #96. To: war (#66) My adolescent daughter had a major crush on Alex Keaton. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:48:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #97. To: Badeye (#91) Alain Delaquérière contributed research. Oh...... you finally found something and just needed an excuse to post it. More of your needing to use everyone for your own ends. But since you put it in italics and not quotes, no one will read it. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   12:49:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #98. To: Badeye (#68) They were correct about Moonbeam. I was not impressed with him in his days as California's governor, but he did a good job in an impossible position as Oakland's mayor. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:51:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #99. To: mininggold (#97) (eyes rolling) Only a pure, 100% KOOK could come up with that. And I didn't put anything in 'italics' you nutcase, I copy the articles and comments 'as is'. Sheesh...if you bathroom sink gets clogged, do you think its fuckin conspiracy? my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:52:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #100. To: mininggold (#92) (Edited) I didn't rewrite anything. Chuckles...it's just Irma La Boof using you to argue with me because he's too much of a pussy to do so directly. Sorry that you're caught up in the middle of his latest adolescent snit fit...it's the price that we pay for having Boofer here, routine meltdowns and drunken sputterings... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #101. To: Badeye (#69) Before or after the latest debacle? lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   12:53:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #102. To: lucysmom (#101) Before...During...After I AM Wall Street afterall...[snicker] Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:54:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #103. To: lucysmom (#98) We do agree here completely. But the fact is Brown was known as 'Moonbeam' for his ridiculous political stances early in his career. My anti groupie choose to pretend Brown's 'spin' was the 'reality'. He does that a lot. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:54:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #104. To: lucysmom (#101) Throughout, unless it displays his hypocrisy to overtly. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   12:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #105. To: Badeye (#103) (Edited) But the fact is Brown was known as 'Moonbeam' for his ridiculous political stances early in his career. My anti groupie choose to pretend Brown's 'spin' was the 'reality'. Royko wrote the column in 1976 when Brown proposed the Space Agency and satellite launch...Royko claimed that Brown was courting the Moonbeam vote. Once again, Boof...you are so fucking wrong...once again you are arguing from a 0 knowledge base. Once again you lost to....ME... Ha Ha Fuck You live with it... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:58:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #106. To: Boofer The Drunk (#104) Throughout, unless it displays his hypocrisy to overtly. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... I knew that this thread would send you running for the Crown Royal... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   12:59:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #107. To: war (#70) He was also an advocate of smaller government before it became a popular idea. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   13:01:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #108. To: lucysmom (#107) Ran on a flat tax in 1992... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   13:05:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #109. To: Badeye (#91) "Exactly when Mr. Royko first crowned Mr. Brown “Governor Moonbeam” is unclear. Mr. Royko said he didn’t even remember when he first landed on the phrase. He “was stringing some words together one evening to earn his day’s pay,” he wrote." Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   13:06:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #110. To: war (#72) Yep! lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   13:20:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #111. To: Badeye (#99) mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   13:21:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #112. To: Badeye (#99) (eyes rolling) Only a pure, 100% KOOK could come up with that. And I didn't put anything in 'italics' you nutcase, I copy the articles and comments 'as is'. Sheesh...if you bathroom sink gets clogged, do you think its fuckin conspiracy? Is there nothing you will not try to blame on others? YOU posted it in the area where it would show up in italics. Or maybe you have a secretary to blame it on. I gave you advice on why your article will not be reader friendly, which hardly can be considered a conspiracy. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   13:25:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #113. To: war (#100) Sorry that you're caught up in the middle of his latest adolescent snit fit...it's the price that we pay for having Boofer here, routine meltdowns and drunken sputterings... It's also getting a little too paranoid. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   13:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #114. To: dont eat that (#83) I've never had a problem with doctor's filing insurance. I doubt it actually costs very much as the same people who do it handle many other administrative duties, too. A friend is the office manager for a clinic. She says she spends hours on the phone with people in India getting approvals for patient treatment and that even after getting pre-approval the insurance provider may deny the claim when presented. That means more hours on the phone getting the denial reversed. Even then they may not get payment which means that she has to try and get payment from the patient. In the end, they have to raise rates to compensate for claims that are never paid. According to research presented on the site I linked to, 31% of medical costs are administrative and have nothing to do with health care delivery. So factoring in layer upon layer of government bureaucracy is going to make things better and cheaper? Do you think insurance is not grossly bureaucratic? lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   13:36:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #115. To: mininggold (#113) Yep...one step closer to total meltdown which usually includes the background checks... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   13:40:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #116. To: mininggold (#113) No paranoia here Kookie. And my anti groupie has no say in who posts anywhere on the net. He just likes to pretend otherwise on occasion. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   13:42:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #117. To: war (#115) Yep...one step closer to total meltdown which usually includes the background checks... He can check away, I'll see his ass in jail. I hope he has lots of assets. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   13:43:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #118. To: war (#86) In January a cardiologist referred me for a stress test. The earliest appointment I could get is May 28. (BTW, due to a pre-existing condition I am uninsurable and pay out of pocket) lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   13:43:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #119. To: Badeye (#116) (Edited) And my anti groupie has no say in who posts anywhere on the net. Wha...chuckle...huh? Where have I advocated that you not be able to post here, Boofer? I was one of the few who advocated your unconditional resinstatement @ LP despite the bullshit that you tried to pull with me. And no one knows what "anti-groupie" means. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   13:44:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #120. To: lucysmom (#118) Whiner!!!! [just kidding] Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   13:45:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #121. To: mininggold (#117) Another kook myth perpetuated by my laughable anti groupie. Only the self absorbed think they are worth the time, let alone the effort to conduct 'background checks' on SCREEN NAMES. As for 'have my ass in jail' your ignorance of public records is typical. They are PUBLIC, you dumbass. My anti groupie likes to pretend I did a 'background check' on him. This simply isn't true. Multiple forum owners that tossed his ass off their boards gave me his name, email and so on, years ago. But, like all kooks its a 'conspiracy'! (laughing) You two should get a room, and rub your conspiracy sores together. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   13:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #122. To: mininggold (#95) I believe California has $250,000 limit. Yes we have, since the 70s I believe - but then we're Socialist doncha know. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   13:47:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #123. To: Badeye (#103) Jerry Brown was just ahead of his time - some call that visionary and think its a good thing. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   13:49:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #124. To: Badeye (#121) Another kook myth perpetuated by my laughable anti groupie. Only the self absorbed think they are worth the time, let alone the effort to conduct 'background checks' on SCREEN NAMES. LOLOL That thread where you posted his name is still up on LP. Fred linked to it yesterday. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   13:50:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #125. To: lucysmom (#62) Its a credit to education in the US that people commonly confuse political systems with economic systems. Okay madam - educate me: Let me cite a few countries of the world today, and YOU tell ME what kind of political system and economic system they have. Ready? 1. China 2. Russia 3. USA 4. UK 5. Germany 6. Greece 7. Singapore "UPS and FedEx are doing just fine, right? It's the Post Office that's always having problems." –Barry Soetoro attempting to make the case for government-run healthcare, while simultaneously undercutting his own argument, Portsmouth, N.H., Aug. 11, 2009 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-24   13:50:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #126. To: Badeye (#121) (Edited) Multiple forum owners that tossed his ass off their boards gave me his name, email and so on, years ago. Wha...chuckle...huh? The only forum that you lasted longer on was Pipe and we knew who the other was by then. No one had to give you my name, email and "so- on" [even tho not even my name or "so on" was required to register just an email.] So you promoting name and so on is an obvious lie. After I was booted from Pipe, I snail mailed you a bottle of Crown Royal when I lost a bet to you, Boof, that we had made prior to Bill's purgings. This was back when you weren't so self absorbed. I still have OUR email exchanges. And as you like to say, Goldi has the emails. She knows what happened. As do you. As does the clerk of courts [who is my neighbor]...as does my credit alert. Do you believe that she booted you without any proof? You gave her 0 choice because you have 0 self control. Chuckles...you're well down the LF exit ramp now...as predicted... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:02:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #127. To: war (#120) Whiner!!!! More whine: The cardiologist was appalled that I drove myself home after the event that precipitated the visit to his office. He said, "You do know that when that happens you're supposed to call 911 don't you?" Without insurance there is no way I could pay the tens of thousands of dollars that would have cost. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   14:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #128. To: lucysmom (#127) Yea...I'm sorry that happened and I'm sorry that there are those who would rather have it continue to happen... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:06:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #129. To: mininggold (#124) Fred linked to it yesterday. I did? Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   14:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #130. To: lucysmom (#118) In January a cardiologist referred me for a stress test. How much will that cost you? Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   14:09:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #131. To: mininggold (#124) WhiteSands is back; gee, what a surprise in the article he posted. www.libertypost.org/cgi-b....cgi?ArtNum=286241&Disp=0 That dumb cracker. Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   14:11:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #132. To: Get Outta Dodge! (#125) 7. Singapore Capitalist - single party rule. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   14:14:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #133. To: Fred Mertz (#130) No Idea. Figure I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-24   14:15:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #134. To: Fred Mertz (#131) From about 2007 on he had two obssessions...child molestation and Boofer... Made you wonder, eh? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:16:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #135. To: mininggold (#124) Did he link the 200 times he posted mine over a three year period predating it? Somehow, I think not. I asked for it to be stopped for 18 months, Sally refused to address it, so eventually - after multiple warnings to him and Sally - I finally responded 'in kind'. I'm still wondering how you determine a person's legal name via a screen name in a internet forum....(laughing) Its not possible, unless its based upon the legal name, not initials. My anti groupie was outted by site hosts that found him despicable. They don't do that casually, for the obvious reason. Rather than admit the truth of this, he made up a fairy tale that doesn't hold up under even casual scrutiny. To be 100% honest, I've told multiple posters HERE I won't 'go there' with him here at LF via the mail system requests for that information. It doesn't do the forum any good. And whats the point anyway? So much for this topic. Lets move on. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   14:20:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #136. To: Fred Mertz (#129) I am kinda surprised if you did so, Fred. Whats the point? my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   14:21:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #137. To: Badeye (#135) So much for this topic. Lets move on. You want to move on, Boof? Start telling the goddam truth. How did I start posting on LP, Boof? Do you recall who invited me, via email? Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:22:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #138. To: lucysmom (#123) rotflmao! We disagree, but thats still allowed. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   14:24:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #139. To: Badeye (#135) I asked for it to be stopped for 18 months You posted my name on LP, Boof. Out of the blue...for no reason...YOU posted my name. Just as you did with Malodor. You hadn't asked for anything to be stopped because nothing had been started. And there is no reason for you to be posting Goldi's name here, either. And it undermines your entire argument. You really do need help, dude. Serious help. I cannot help but wonder if you really BELIEVE this absolute total bullshit that you are posting. And if you do, refer back to my first statement. You're truly living in a separate reality. Sad. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:26:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #140. To: Badeye (#135) Sally refused to address it, so eventually - after multiple warnings to him and Sally - I finally responded 'in kind'. Who is Sally? Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   14:28:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #141. To: Fred Mertz (#140) The fatal blow to his protests...[ironic laugh] Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:30:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #142. To: Fred Mertz (#140) Your insane host at LP. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   14:44:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #143. To: Fred Mertz (#129) did? Well, the thread you linked to had a link to that thread. Sorry, I take it back. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   14:45:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #144. To: lucysmom (#114) With Obamacrap, we are still going to have whatever Insurance company bureaucracy there is PLUS layers of government bureaucracy. According to research presented on the site I linked to, 31% of medical costs are administrative and have nothing to do with health care delivery. Even if a doctor didn't accept insurance, he will still have administrative costs. He has to pay a staff and stock Office supplies anyway. dont eat that  posted on  2010-03-24   14:48:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #145. To: Boofer, Fred Mertz (#142) Is he too stupid to realize this undermines his protests or is he just...well...stupid... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:49:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #146. To: Badeye (#135) So much for this topic. Lets move on. No one is stopping you from moving on. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   14:50:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #147. To: war (#145) Is he too stupid to realize this undermines his protests or is he just...well...stupid... When one has determined they are worthy of the status of a king every edict is deemed valid. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   14:53:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #148. To: mininggold, go65 (#143) (Edited) I've been perusing the elPee database, going down memory lane...there are lots of gems there...but I've resisted the temptation to link or cut and paste them here (the old ones, that is). Like this one: #85. To: GO65 (#79) I've found this week that this forum is far more enjoyable with Badeye on filter. yet you can't get through a day without me, as this demonstrates once again, and we both know you aren't being honest about the filter. Man, being called a 'bot' really screwed you up last week...LOL! Badeye posted on 2007-01-25 14:20:12 ET Oops, I just broke my own rule here...(wink)...but I did it show what I think is the original thought of Badeye's tagline - 2010... Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   14:55:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #149. To: Fred Mertz (#148) (chuckle) I don't bother perusing stormfront lite. my anti groupie can't get through life without me. Badeye  posted on  2010-03-24   14:56:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #150. To: mininggold (#147) (Edited) It takes a lot to stun me - I have four kids and, believe me, by the time the 4th one reaches age 16, you know what "absurd" is. I was seriously mouth agape reading that steaming pile of horseshit. He's a known quantity. Geezus...he's spoken of with derision on boards that he has never even once posted. I just do not get why he bothers. He did what he did. Own it. THEN you can move on. Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:57:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #151. To: Fred Mertz (#148) original thought of Badeye's DUDE!!!! That nearly blinded me...be careful with that syntax thingie...!!!! Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   14:59:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #152. To: Fred Mertz (#148) I think war posted the link. Sorry, I think I can still delete the post. Nope... the time is up, I get to live with the inaccurate statement. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   15:13:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #153. To: Fred Mertz (#148) Oops, I just broke my own rule here...(wink)...but I did it show what I think is the original thought of Badeye's tagline - 2010... If a king has no subjects, is he really a king? mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   15:17:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #154. To: mininggold (#152) Nope... the time is up, I get to live with the inaccurate statement. No problem whatsoever. Fred Mertz  posted on  2010-03-24   15:17:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #155. To: mininggold, Fred Mertz (#152) I think war posted the link. Sorry, I think I can still delete the post. Nope... the time is up, I get to live with the inaccurate statement. Oh...aha...sorry I would have owned up to it...I didn't make the connection. Boof claimed yesterday that he had me filtered "right up until [his] last post" at LP. It was a lie that was easily exposed. Sorry... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   15:19:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #156. To: war (#155) Boof claimed yesterday that he had me filtered "right up until [his] last post" at LP. It was a lie that was easily exposed. Sorry... The wonders of the internet must still be a mystery to some. mininggold  posted on  2010-03-24   15:58:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #157. To: mininggold (#156) Even the simplest toy is dangerous in the hands of the impetuously stupid... Day 31 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 29 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-24   20:56:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #158. To: dont eat that (#144) With Obamacrap, we are still going to have whatever Insurance company bureaucracy there is PLUS layers of government bureaucracy. Yep, you're correct. I'm still hoping for single payer. lucysmom  posted on  2010-03-25   11:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #159. To: lucysmom (#158) You're back. Have you had a chance to ponder my question(s) to you in post 90 yet? ""I've now been in 57 states — I think one left to go." —Barry Soetoro, at a campaign event in Beaverton, Oregon, May 9, 2008 Get Outta Dodge!  posted on  2010-03-25   11:33:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #160. To: mininggold (#156) The wonders of the internet must still be a mystery to some. It's true. It took boof years to understand you could use the same screen name from two different computers. Undoubtedly you've obvious refuse to read the link Bill D Berger posted regard 9/11 ... Luberator Biff Tannen  posted on  2010-03-25   11:54:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #161. To: Abu el Banat (#160) Chuckles... Day 32 of Packrat refusing to register here. Day 30 of Boofer The One Eyed Wonder Bot refusing to answer: When is Blackwell going to have the recount? Jan 30, 2006 ... by saveliberty (Proud to be Head Snowflake, Bushbot... war  posted on  2010-03-25   12:02:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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