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I'm here for the moneuy Red Tides Plague Gulf Beaches Tucker Carlson calls out Nikki Haley, Ben Shapiro, and every other person calling for war: Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Video and Audio See other Video and Audio Articles Title: Ukraine to become 'Big Israel'? Source: The Grayzone URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmICm4qO3i4 Published: Sep 20, 2023 Author: Max Blumenthal Post Date: 2023-09-20 00:18:04 by Charles_Byrd Keywords: None Views: 3799 Comments: 87 The Grayzone's Max Blumenthal addresses the Ron Paul Institute's 2023 Washington DC conference on the disturbing plans in Kiev and Washington to convert Ukraine into a "Big Israel," and what this means for the region and the future of US politics. Click for Full Text! Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-20) not displayed.       .       .       . #21. To: Vicomte13 (#20) Anything I could say might be insulting No, not really. I may be right...I may be wrong. I look at scripture...I look at events taking place. We come from different poles of existence. You live in some other world? No. I think your reply is a cop-out. I think you simply do not wish to deal with Bible prophecy. Regardless of prophecy, Israel awaits their "messiah" and it does involve a Russia-Ukraine conflict. Just one random example...this from haaretz.com: FYI: Putin=Gog, Crimea=Magog, the Apocalypse Is Here and the Messiah Is Coming...https://www.haaretz.com/2014-03-29/ty-article/.premium/fyi- putin-gog-crimea-magog/0000017f-dc4b-db22-a17f-fcfbe4440000 watchman  posted on  2023-09-28   21:49:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: watchman (#21) It isn't that I don't want to "deal" with Bible prophesy. It is that you see the Bible as something very, very different than I do. And there isn't going to be meaningful conversation across this divide. You are certain that it's an account of divine origin of what will happen. And I think revelation is a fever dream of a guy named John in a period of persecution when he and what he believed was under terrible pressure. So, you look for signs of it coming to be, and I know that any such signs are just coincidental patterns with the wild and random stuff that some poor soul wrote 1900 years ago. You cannot understand why I don't fear God and the Bible. And while I understand that you really take Revelation literally, to me that is outside any realm of possibility. I don't want to insult you for doing it, but anything I say will, if pressed, end up being insulting, because I don't believe that what you believe in is real. I think it's make-believe, pretend. To be nice, I'll edge around the matter, treating it with kid gloves, but it's like dealing with a child who believes in the Easter Bunny. These are both harmless beliefs, in my eyes (if you were a Muslim, you would have already blocked me, because I have no patience at all for their ridiculous, evil, dystopian "Allah", with all of his villainy and misogyny, so I attack him by name, repeatedly, and anybody who sincerely believes that crap, as the evil that they actually ARE, BECAUSE they believe that crap, and the crap is bad.) I do not view contemporary evangelical Christianity in the same light as I view Islam, so I don't want to attack it. But when you get right down to it, I think revelation was a dream - and nothing more. So looking for traces of that dream in current events is, ultimately, not something I'm going to spend any time on. So, when I run into someone like you, that really believes it, I am patient and I try to be friendly. But the dire warnings about what awaits me if I don't believe it wears thin. Nothing awaits me if I don't believe it that wasn't awaiting me anyway. And if I do believe it (somehow), that won't change anything. This is the Truth. Obviously, you see a different truth. It's not a cop out to say that we really cannot communicate. If either one of us tries to build a bridge across the chasm, the other actively tears it down. Which is why I simply say "Peace" and try to move on. All we can do is bicker otherwise, and life is too short for that. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-09-29   9:07:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Vicomte13 (#22) I think revelation is a fever dream What about the Book of Daniel...is that prophetic work a fever dream too? (Daniel and Revelation are companion books) I think revelation was a dream - and nothing more. What if you are wrong? watchman  posted on  2023-09-29   13:08:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: watchman (#23) The Book of Daniel is Old Testament Jewish fiction. I note that the Jews themselves do not consider Daniel to be among the "Prophets" - Nevi'im. They put it down with the Writings - Kethuvim - the least authoritative t parts of the Bible. I think that the Old Testament is the story of Jewish fascination with themselves, with being Jewish, with their chauvinism. And the New Testament letters are essentially fanfiction about Jesus...each writer being very different. Jesus is the only one in the Bible I actually care about, because what he taught, through through the filter of his Judaism, is the most enlightened set of ideas to come out of anybody in history. There's a reason so many people love him, and it's because he presents about the only way for men to make a better world. As far as "What if I'm wrong?" What if I'm wrong about anything? If I'm wrong about Allah, I'm headed for an eternity of torture. If I'm wrong about Ganesh, I'm going to have to deal with Shiva. If I'm wrong about Revelation? Jesus didn't say I had to believe in Revelation, so the consequences from the perspective of most of Christianity is minimal. The important thing, according to Jesus, is whether or not I do what he said to do. And what if I'm wrong about my investments? I'll end up poorer than otherwise. What if I am wrong about my child's development? She will not rise as far as she could. What if I'm wrong about there not being any space aliens? Well, if they ever show up, I'll admit I'm wrong. What if I'm wrong about good nutrition? I might shorten my life? There's nothing worse than being wrong about Allah, and he can go piss up a rope. If I'm wrong, it will be bad, but I'm not. All those people who blight their lives believing in him are wrong, and they won't ever get those years back, or the children they kill, etc. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-09-29   16:02:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: Vicomte13 (#24) Well, you've got your god in a nice little box, all under your control. Your god cannot do much (unless you say so). He cannot create the Universe and all that is in it. He cannot foretell the future. He cannot communicate his thoughts to his creation. Your god cannot save man eternally (he can just help men make a temporal "better world"). What else can your god not do? watchman  posted on  2023-09-29   17:00:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: watchman (#25) God can do all of those things, and he's gonna kill me in the end. So I really don't know what you're talking about. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-09-29   20:21:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: Vicomte13 (#26) God can do all of those things According to you, God cannot present a trustworthy Bible. God has somehow allowed error to be canonized (Daniel, Revelation, the Pauline epistles, etc.) I suppose before any hungering soul sets out to know God, he should check in with Vic to find out if what he is reading is actually something God said is His Word. watchman  posted on  2023-09-29   21:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Vicomte13 (#26) he's gonna kill me in the end Yup. The pale horse rider will kill you (along with 1/4 of the earth's population) Sooner than you think. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. This isn't in your bible...but it is in mine. watchman  posted on  2023-09-29   22:08:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: Vicomte13 (#26) he's gonna kill me in the end This is actually a troubling statement...something a fallen angel would say. Are you a demon? watchman  posted on  2023-09-30   10:42:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: watchman (#27) He could, and if he ever presented a Bible, I'm sure it would be. But men put the Bible together, of the writings of men, and they disagreed over its contents - and still do. The different strains of Orthodoxy, Catholicism and Protestantism have different collections of books in their Bibles. And there are three primary, differing, strains of ancient manuscripts, and no two of them are the same. And there was no Bible at all until the religion was legalized circa 325 AD. So the very first Bibles date from around 350, a long, long time after Jesus. God didn't make the Bible, men did. And they still don't agree as to its contents. There are multiple Bibles. based on multiple different manuscript traditions. And of course Muslims say exactly the same thing about the Koran...and they'll kill you for saying about the Koran what I just said about the Bible. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-01   20:18:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: watchman (#29) Are you a demon? Sure. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-01   20:19:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: Vicomte13 (#30) Vic: He could, and if he ever presented a Bible, I'm sure it would be. But men put the Bible together, of the writings of men God: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness Vic: And there was no Bible at all until the religion was legalized circa 325 AD Wrong...the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) was complete by the time of Christ. The NT Bible (in the form of letters) was written, circulated, and recognized as the Word of God long before Athanasius merely compiled the canonized letters. In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of the books that would become the twenty-seven-book NT canon, and he used the word "canonized" Vic: There are multiple Bibles. Wrong. There many translations of the original manuscripts, which are derived from the original autographs (which no longer exist). You really don't know much about Christianity, do you Vic? All I see is a rebellious heathen raging about this or that...finding any excuse to deny God. Lucifer in the Garden to Eve: "Did God really say that?" Vic on the forum to anyone dumb enough to listen: "Did God really say that?" You speak just like your father the devil. You don't wish to be with God in eternity, so you will go to be with the one you choose. Next stop for you...the Lake of Fire. You can change your heart and mind before it's too late but I doubt you will. You've hardened your heart as in the rebellion Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: Stupid really. Choosing to miss out on heaven. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. watchman  posted on  2023-10-01   21:05:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: Vicomte13 (#30) God didn't make the Bible, men did. So men created God. Ok A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-01   21:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: A K A Stone (#33) You call the Bible God? The Bible is your God. God is God. Men created the Bible. Obviously. Which Bible is God? They are all different you know. The Catholic Bible differs from the Orthodox Bible. The Orthodox Bibles differ from one another. The Protestant Bibles differ from the Catholics and the Orthodox, and from each other, depending on which manuscript source they use as their base. So, multiple Gods? Or the Truth: the Bible is not God. God is God. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-02   6:51:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: watchman (#32) There's no denial of God in anything I write. In fact, I focus very explicitly upon the words of Christ. This clearly annoys you, probably because you think you have some sort of monopoly over God. If you don't think that, you sure talk that way. Anyway, enough of this. I'm going back to work, and later in the day I will continue by slow plod through the Gospels and Revelation (the only places in the Bible where Jesus himself speaks, other than a single line of Paul regarding the eucharist), picking out the words of Jesus and laying them back to back to make a point. The point I am making is to someone else, but you, of course, are free to look at the evidence yourself. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-02   10:09:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Vicomte13 (#35) I focus very explicitly upon the words of Christ. through the Gospels and Revelation (the only places in the Bible where Jesus himself speaks But you just got done saying "Men created the Bible". The "words of Christ" you "focus on"...are they not found in the Bible? Didn't man merely create the words of Christ too? You constantly contradict yourself. Why don't you just admit it...you do not believe in the God of the Bible. You believe in your interpretation of God, who is someone/something you can control. watchman  posted on  2023-10-02   11:32:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: watchman (#36) Men did create the Bible, and every other written thing. Words do not hang on the air. If we know them and did not hear them ourselves, it is only because men recorded them. The only way to record them before the latter half of the 19th Century was to write them down. So, the only way to know what Christ said is to read it in a book men wrote? Are the quotes accurate? Made up? A bit of both? There is no way to tell that. We have wag at those men at that time recorded, and we use that as the basis to analyze what Christ, or Thomas Acquinas, or Shakespeare, or Caesar said. There is nothing remotely contradictory in anything I have said on this matter. You need to go look up “contradictory” and read the definition again. I can read the Koran too, and see what Allah is said to have said, and analyze that. Do I think that is actually the will of God? Not mostly, no. A stopped clock is right twice a day. When it comes to Jesus, I have very great respect for what he said, in part because I agree with it. I think he was the son of God, somehow, but that assertion is just a bald one to me. So what? Even if he was, that’s useless information unless we know what he SAID. That is what we can evaluate. When I evaluate what Jesus said, it is quite remarkable. Did Jesus say some of that? Almost certainly yes. Did he say every word of it? I don’t know. But nothing about what he says seems very contradictory to me, and it’s excellent, so I am willing to listen to HIM and think that if by listening to anybody I can act in accordance with the will of God, that this is it. Now, I note clear contradictions between Jesus and Paul, Jesus and James, and Jesus and John, so I have to make a choice. My choice is to come down on the side of Jesus 100% of the time. You will say they don’t conflict. I see how they do, and side with Jesus. And that’s all there is to be said here. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-02   13:33:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Vicomte13 (#37) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1cor2.12-14 You are a "natural" man, that is, without the indwelling Holy Spirit. You cannot understand what God is saying in His Word...it is foolishness to you...so you toss out the parts that don't make sense. Does it annoy me, as you say? No, it grieves me, and it grieves Stone and others. watchman  posted on  2023-10-02   16:03:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: watchman (#38) I toss out the parts that contradict Jesus. Example: You shall not suffer a witch to live. Or “You shall take the daughter of the priest who fornicates and put her into the fire. Or If you have broken any law, you have broken them all. Or.. Kill the sabbath breaker. Or Women shall not teach in the Church Etc. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-02   17:25:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Vicomte13 (#39) (Edited) I toss out the parts that contradict Jesus. Edit: These verses about burning witches, etc. are foolishness to you, but not to me. No matter how hard I work to explain it to you, your mind refuses to accept the explanation. After you are born again you will understand what God did in the OT, and what He is doing in the NT. watchman  posted on  2023-10-02   20:45:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: Vicomte13 (#37) so basically you're saying you dont have faith that the Bible is the word of God. A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-02   20:45:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: Vicomte13 (#16) surplus you are mistaken www.stripes.com/theaters/us/2023 -10-02/pentagon-congress-ukraine-war- funding-11569941.html A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-02   23:16:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: A K A Stone (#41) (Edited) I am saying that the words of Jesus stand supreme, because he was the Son of God, and he said to follow him. He did not say to follow the Bible, and he did not leave a Bible. That didn’t come to be until the 300s. There were no Christian Scripture when Paul wrote, for example. There were none until decades after Jesus. What Jesus said and did is recorded in the Scriptures, yes. And what he said is supreme over everything else for, as the Scriptures tell you, HE was the begotten son of God, HE was the divine one, HE knew what was what. So therefore, I focus on him. The Scripture say to stone the woman found in adultery, but HE said “Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone.” The Scriptures say “eat no pork nor shellfish”, but HE said that nothing that goes into a man’s mouth makes him unclean, only that which come out of it. The Scripture says to kill the sabbath breaker who so much as gathers firewood, but HE said that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; and that it is right to heal on the sabbath, to do good.. The Scripture (James) says that if you break one law, you’ve broken them all, but Jesus always speaks of greater and lesser sins. The Bible had at least 95 authors, each with a different viewpoint in a different age. But Jesus was one man, recorded in five different texts, largely consistent between them. What Jesus says is very distinctive, and often different from what other people in the Bible said. And Jesus was very self-consciously the son of God, and said so. The Bible can take you myriad ways, but Jesus takes you in a very distintive direction. Example: Paul says to not let women teach, but Jesus had the woman at the well teach her whole people. Where other parts of the Bible go in different directions, you correct all of that to Jesus. So, within the Bible itself, Jesus is above the rest of it. And that means that no, you can’t burn witches, even though another part of the Bible orders you to. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-03   7:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: A K A Stone (#42) I am at page 80 of 180, still moving through methodically and taking notes for you. It will be several days before I am done. Then I will send it to you. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-03   8:11:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Vicomte13 (#20) "There's just no point. We come from different poles of existence. Anything I could say might be insulting, and I don't want to do that. So, go in peace." Wow...I am impressed. Very enlightened response, V13...MUD "NOW...Devolve Power Outta the Federal Leviathan!!" Mudboy Slim  posted on  2023-10-03   11:03:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: Mudboy Slim (#45) Yeah. But obviously the conversation continued. I have decided that all I can do to state my faith is what I have promised to Stone: systematically go through Jesus, and lay end-to-end the things HE said, because HE is the son of God. Everything else ends up being "Jesus PLUS", and in my experience, everything that's "Jesus PLUS" ends up being Minus Jesus. And the only person in that whole Biblical milieu I'm willing to listen to is Jesus. The trouble with Moses, Ezra, etc., is that they're pronouncing death and exclusion. And the trouble with Paul, James and John is that what they say contradicts Jesus, and always, inevitably, in a way that I disagree with. I'm aligned with Jesus, and when somebody says something different from Jesus, that difference is invariably worse, in my experience. So I just stick with him. This makes sense, given that he's God. But many people have replaced Jesus with the Bible, making the Bible God. Jesus did not say to do that. He said "Follow ME", and he didn't leave a Bible. So, when I see Jesus excoriating the Jews time and again for their traditions that completely close off what Jesus was saying, I see Christians and their Bible doing exactly the same thing. And I am unimpressed with this. I am also unimpressed with how mean and carping they are about it. the Bible ain't God. God is God. Now, what God said is IN the Bible, in the mouth of Jesus. Follow THAT. But the Bible ALSO contains things out of other people's mouths, that contradict Jesus. Don't follow that. This makes some people accuse me of being a demon. I would say that they are tradition-mongering Pharisees, and the Bible is their tradition. Obviously we are never going to see eye to eye, just as most of the Jews never saw eye to eye with Jesus (and the ones who did, stopped being Jews in time and became Christians). But the Christians, in later ages, erected their OWN traditions that replace Jesus, and did various terrible things like murdering people. I have no patience for any of that. And I have only limited patience for the cheerleaders of that, which is precisely what Christian tradition-mongers are. Just shut up and follow Christ, and all will be well. Is that so hard? Why do people work so hard to follow everybody BUT Christ? The answer is that Christ demands things of people they don't want to do, while the others present a way of thinking and being that is easier, lets them feel holy, without actually DOING what Jesus said to do. It's "Christian", but it ain't following Jesus. I stick with Jesus, and I see the tempests of anger that raises. And I provoke them - just like he did. But I need to get through the Scriptures and present Jesus, Just Jesus. And let the storm wail away after that - I won't care! Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-03   12:15:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Vicomte13 (#44) no rush. take your time A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-03   13:51:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Vicomte13 (#46) blah, blah, blah watchman  posted on  2023-10-03   14:15:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: Mudboy Slim (#45) V13 13 is the number of rebellion in the Bible. "Biblically, the number 13 is also believed to be associated with lawlessness and rebellion. This symbolism associated with this number dates as far back as the Book of Genesis, where it’s implied in Genesis 10:9 that Nimrod, a mighty hunter, was before God. This is interpreted as Nimrod trying to take up the place of God, even though he belonged to the 13th generation in the line of Ham". "...Judas Iscariot, the 13th guest to make an appearance during Jesus Christ’s Last Supper. Judas is also the one who betrayed Jesus Christ..." https://christianfaithguide.com/biblical-spiritual-meaning-of-number- 13/ watchman  posted on  2023-10-03   15:10:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: watchman (#49) (Edited) I happen to be the 13th Vicomte of a place in France. If I were the 11th, I would have “Vicomte11” as my name. But I’m the 13th, so that is my name. Does genealogy render me a rebel? Doubt. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-03   16:08:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: watchman (#49) Superstitious about the number 13? Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-03   18:04:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: Vicomte13 (#50) I happen to be the 13th Vicomte of a place in France. Well, I shouldn't be associating with someone of such low degree as yourself because your commonness always rubs off on those of us who are of true nobility. I am, after all, a child of the King, the Most High God. Does genealogy render me a rebel? Unfortunately, in a matter of speaking, yes. Your rebellious nature was passed down to you from your father. watchman  posted on  2023-10-03   19:31:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: watchman (#52) We're all children of God. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-03   19:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: Vicomte13 (#53) We're all children of God. Worn out cliché. You can't merely claim to be a child of God any more than I can claim to be a child of a Vicomte. You were born an enemy of God...you must be reborn to become a child of God. watchman  posted on  2023-10-03   20:01:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: Vicomte13 (#53) We're all children of God. No jesus didnt say that about the warmongers who would supply foreigners with weapons to kill people that they politically hate. Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God". Youre not a peacemakers but someone who supports war to kill as many russians as possible so we will be dominant in the world. A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-04   7:08:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Vicomte13 (#53) A bit off topic but this thread is at the moment off topic. I cant find where jesus says to pray to dead sinners, you know Mary. So in truth you dont listen to Jesus but to sinful man. Just saying A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-04   7:17:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: Vicomte13 (#39) (Edited) I toss out the parts that contradict Jesus Then as above why do you pray to a dead sinner. Mary never claimed to be someone to pray to. jesus never said to pray to Mary. so what you said is not the truth. A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-04   7:22:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: A K A Stone (#57) I don’t pray to Mary. However Mary, being a disciple of her son, is not dead. Neither are any of the others of his disciples, if you believe him anyway. I am at page 116 of 183. Steadily moving. Jesus says a lot. Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-04   8:32:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: Vicomte13 (#58) However Mary, being a disciple of her son, is not dead. Neither are any of the others of his disciples, Where did Jesus say that? I don't think he did. Only Elijah and that other dude never died. A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-04   8:33:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: A K A Stone (#55) Tell me, does your church allow divorce and remarriage? What do you think of that? Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-04   8:33:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #61. To: Vicomte13 (#58) Steadily moving. Jesus says a lot. Take as much time as you want or need. I'm sure you will do a thorough job. A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-04   8:35:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (62 - 87) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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