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Title: Res ipsa loquiTur - The ... Thing iTself ... speaks
Source: jonathanturley.org
URL Source: https://jonathanturley.org/2021/04/ ... dings/comment-page-3/#comments
Published: Apr 6, 2021
Author: JONATHAN TURLEY
Post Date: 2021-04-06 03:21:14 by BorisY
Keywords: huTus mau maus devilcraTs, huTus mau maus devilcraTs, huTus mau maus devilcraTs
Views: 252
Comments: 5

Res ipsa loquitur – The thing itself speaks

JONATHAN TURLEY

April 5, 2021

Prosecutors Ask Jurors To Dismiss George Floyd Autopsy Findings I previously wrote that the key to conviction in the Derek Chauvin trial (and avoiding a cascading failure in all four cases) is the autopsy findings and the role of drugs (including fentanyl) in the body of George Floyd. Prosecutors are now asking the jury to effectively dismiss the findings of the only official autopsy in the case and insist, contrary to those findings, that Floyd died from asphyxia, or, lack of oxygen. Some new disclosures may make that claim more difficult for the prosecution.

Last week, special prosecutor Jerry Blackwell admitted to jurors that Hennepin County Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker pointed to cardiac arrest as Floyd’s cause of death. However, he insisted that the state would prove that “was … not a fatal heart event,” but asphyxiation.

It is a bold move since it could invite reasonable doubt on the cause of death. The question is whether a case of manslaughter could have been advanced without the need of opposing the state’s own coroner on such findings. The failure of Chauvin to respond to a medical emergency speaks more to manslaughter than murder but it could be framed consistently with these findings. Instead, the prosecution has asked the jury to effectively reject the coroner’s findings — a risky maneuver.

We have previously discussed key defense elements in the case:

►When called to the scene due to Floyd allegedly passing counterfeit money, Floyd denied using drugs but later said he was “hooping,” or taking drugs.

►The autopsy did not conclude that Floyd died from asphyxiation (though a family pathologist made that finding). Rather, it found “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).” The state’s criminal complaint against Chauvin said the autopsy “revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation. Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease.” He also was COVID-19 positive.

►Andrew Baker, Hennepin County’s chief medical examiner, strongly suggested that the primary cause was a huge amount of fentanyl in Floyd’s system: “Fentanyl at 11 ng/ml — this is higher than (a) chronic pain patient. If he were found dead at home alone & no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD (overdose). Deaths have been certified w/levels of 3.” Baker also told investigators that the autopsy revealed no physical evidence suggesting Floyd died of asphyxiation.

►The toxicology report on Floyd’s blood also noted that “in fatalities from fentanyl, blood concentrations are variable and have been reported as low as 3 ng/ml.” Floyd had almost four times the level of fentanyl considered potentially lethal.

►Floyd notably repeatedly said that he could not breathe while sitting in the police cruiser and before he was ever restrained on the ground. That is consistent with the level of fentanyl in his system that can cause “slowed or stopped breathing.”

►Floyd’s lungs were two to three times the normal size and filled with fluid. “Pulmonary edema is a condition caused by excess fluid in the lungs” and it is symptomatic of an opioid overdose, according to Mayo Clinic. However, it should be noted that the Mayo Clinic report also addresses “Non-heart-related (non cardiogenic) pulmonary edema” and “Negative pressure pulmonary edema,” which could be used to support the prosecution’s theory.

►Finally, the restraint using an officer’s knee on an uncooperative suspect was part of the training of officers, and jurors will watch training videotapes employing the same type of restraint as official policy.

What is interesting is that the prosecution is putting on experts like they are making a defense case. It is usually the defense that brings in a host of doctors to challenge official autopsy findings. Here however the state doctor’s findings contradict the prosecutor’s case.

Conversely, Chauvin’s attorney, Eric Nelson, sounds more like the typical prosecutor noting that there is only one official autopsy and one official report on the cause of death. He told the jury “Dr. Baker found none of what are referred to as the telltale signs of asphyxiation. There was no evidence that Mr. Floyd’s airflow was restricted and he did not determine [it] to be a positional or mechanical asphyxia death.”

Nelson can rely on other aspects of the official record. When Baker went over findings in a meeting last December with the Minnesota Attorney General’s Office, he specifically noted that the knee restraint was not likely to produce asphyxiation: “[I]t appeared to Dr. Baker that the pressure to the neck was coming from the back or posterior lateral portions of the back, and none of these strictures would impact breathing or cause loss of consciousness,” said a document summarizing the meeting.” He noted a study that found that placing 200 pounds of weight or more on a healthy person did not have an “observable impact on breathing.”

Instead, Baker cited the drugs in the system as well as the 75-80% narrowing of coronary arteries that “put him at risk for a sudden cardiac arrest.” The record of the meeting states “Dr. Baker offered that one possibility for the pathway of Floyd’s death is that Floyd’s heart was starting to fail because of the stress, drugs, enlarged heart, and [heart] disease . . . He said that once the heart starts to fail … one of the symptoms is the perception that you cannot breathe.”

After those findings were released, Baker’s office had to be put under police protections due to threats to him and his staff.

By focusing the jury on the autopsy report, and asking them to effectively dismiss the conclusions of the only official report, the prosecutors increase the chances of a hung jury and even an acquittal. I previously expressed reservations about the push for murder charges because the case is better suited for a manslaughter case. If a jury feels the prosecutors have over-charged a case, it can produce a loss of credibility in the case. When you add an argument to dismiss the state’s own autopsy findings, you risk magnifying such skepticism or mistrust with jury members.



Karen S - April 5, 2021

I’m just a lay person, but I strongly feel this case was not charged correctly. It seems more like mob justice than actual justice.

From my perspective, I think Chauvin behaved in a callous way towards George Floyd. After he stopped struggling, he should have been sat up, and different positions tried to help alleviate his respiratory distress while they awaited EMT. Based upon the condition of his heart and lungs, the presence of a fatal overdose of Fentanyl along with meth in his system, and his Covid-19 positive status, I surmise that George Floyd would have died anyway. But he would have died while the police were trying to help him.

George Floyd was an instrument in his own destruction. You don’t take Fentanyl if you want to live. Best case scenario is that it’s Russian roulette with your life for recreation. Worst case is that it’s deliberate suicide. How the heck do anesthesia drugs get to the street? This stuff is poison. George Floyd’s life was going very wrong, hurtling down the drain, the moment he took Fentanyl. There must have been a lot going wrong that led up to that fateful choice.

Chauvin featured at the end of his life. I have not heard evidence yet proving Chauvin killed George Floyd. But he sure as heck made his passing harder and more frightening. George Floyd’s lungs were filling with fluid and his respiration slowing due to the overdose. His heart was racing due to the meth, and likely panic. His instinct might have been to fight and run, but he couldn’t run away from what he’d done to his own body. I wish he had admitted to the police what he had taken, and how much, to get help. Why keep it a secret what he took? They’d give him a blood test anyway. Why not just say what he took and get specific help? But I guess when you’re that high you can’t think rationally.

Unless evidence is presented that change my mind, I don’t think Chauvin killed George Floyd. I think he acted with negligence, and maintained a hold that was in police policy far longer than reasonably indicated. I don’t think he tried to help his breathing, which was negligent, but I believe Floyd was dying because of the overdose. It is still possible that evidence might prove that Chauvin hastened the death of a dying man.

The other police officers were rookies one week on the job. I don’t think they should have been charged at all. The hold had been part of their training, and Chauvin was their superior officer. Chauvin was holding him, waiting for EMTs to arrive.

I am glad that this hold has already been removed from so many police training, as it had years ago with the LAPD. A silver lining is that this tragedy induced more police departments to abandon this type of hold, and to review how to deal with strong drug addicts who are fighting and out of their minds on drugs. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to deal with someone on drugs and fighting.



Natacha - April 5, 2021

Good God –you again. You state as if it were an established fact that Floyd: 1. had a fatal overdose in his system; THERE IS NO RELIABLE EVIDENCE OF THIS; yet you know better; postmortem levels of Fentanyl bear no relation to pre-death levels; fentanyl overdose was not listed as a cause of death, and no amount of posts from Turley will change this fundamental fact; 2. “the condition of his heart and lungs” what about it? What condition, Dr. Karen? Whatever these conditions were, he was fine until Chauvin knelt on his neck; how you you know that kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion? 3. COVID 19 status–what does this have to do with anything? Was he symptomatic? What role did COFID + status play? Any role? None is listed by the doctors. 4. Floyd would have died anyway. Did the video in the store appear that he was in distress or dying?

As your posts always prove, you think you are more sophisticated and knowledgeable than you are, especially about medical things. What you are is racist and gullible and an unsophisticated know it all who thinks her opinions on medical and legal matters are important. We can just hope there aren’t some of your kind on the jury.



Karen S - April 5, 2021

In which Natacha, with her usual hysterical disregard for facts, claims that a man with Fentanyl and meth in his system, who complained that he couldn’t breathe and started struggling, while speaking with the police, was “fine” before Chauvin knelt on his neck. Remember the part where an officer told Floyd he would sit with him in the back to help him calm down and get more air back there because he said he couldn’t breathe and was claustrophibic? Remember when they kept asking him what he took? That’s not “fine.”

Postmortem redistribution of Fentanyl will be discussed at trial.

It is frightening to think of you on a jury, as you’ve shown a consistent disregard for the facts or investigations. There have been so many times you have boldly stated that you just knew someone was guilty, only to be proven wrong, and then sullenly stop making such assertions. Eventually.

Falsely accusing me of racism is a real dirtbag thing to do, but hardly noteworthy in a troll who claimed to be both a nurse and a lawyer at one point.

Someone who claims she is a nurse thinks someone taking Fentanyl and meth is “fine” and not in imminent danger of death. My God, if you really are a nurse, that’s a problem.

See, here is how juries work. The prosecution has to prove their case. The evidence has to convince jurors beyond a reasonable doubt. Evidence like that autopsy that the prosecution is trying to throw out.

This isn’t a lynch mob; it’s supposed to be justice.

I have kept an open mind, and still caution that evidence might be brought that will prove Chauvin hastened or contributed to Floyd’s death.

Too bad you jump to so many conclusions, because you probably get jury summons like everyone else. The thought is chilling. You’d fit right in with a lynch mob.



Natacha - April 5, 2021

This has always been your know-it-all modus operandi: claim that I’ve been corrected numerous times, which is a lie. You did the same thing with the Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony about Brett Kavanaugh. I’m still waiting for her to cash in on her fame, which is what you claimed was her motivation to lie about what he did to her. Last I heard, she still couldn’t return to teaching and her family still can’t return to their home. When is she going on the talk show circuit to promote her book, like you claimed she would do? When did I “boldly state” someone was guilty, only to be proven wrong? I didn’t say taking fentanyl or meth were “fine”. I said that the video of Floyd in the store minutes before Chauvin knelt on his neck showed someone who was standing, walking, talking and apparently unimpaired– not someone on the verge of death, like you try to claim. Turley threw in the fentanyl as a red herring: to get the jury distracted from Chauvin’s outrageous conduct.

Someone who panics over claustrophobia isn’t going to calm down because someone is sitting with him. Now I’m a dirtbag and troll, lying about my education and jumping to conclusions? That describes you perfectly. You demonstrate the height of hypocrisy by claiming you have an “open mind”. You have anything but. You’re willing to read into the cause of death carefully couched language that did not actually state that fentanyl caused his death. You’re willing to believe whatever Turley writes because you are racist and not well educated, just like you fell for Trump and his lies. The only defense Turley can come up with is to exaggerate what the ME’s report actually said, which was NOT fentanyl overdose. Yet, you know better.



Natacha - April 5

This has always been your know-it-all modus operandi: claim that I’ve been corrected numerous times, which is a lie. You did the same thing with the Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony about Brett Kavanaugh. I’m still waiting for her to cash in on her fame, which is what you claimed was her motivation to lie about what he did to her. Last I heard, she still couldn’t return to teaching and her family still can’t return to their home. When is she going on the talk show circuit to promote her book, like you claimed she would do? When did I “boldly state” someone was guilty, only to be proven wrong? I didn’t say taking fentanyl or meth were “fine”. I said that the video of Floyd in the store minutes before Chauvin knelt on his neck showed someone who was standing, walking, talking and apparently unimpaired– not someone on the verge of death, like you try to claim. Turley threw in the fentanyl as a red herring: to get the jury distracted from Chauvin’s outrageous conduct.

Someone who panics over claustrophobia isn’t going to calm down because someone is sitting with him. Now I’m a dirtbag and troll, lying about my education and jumping to conclusions? That describes you perfectly. You demonstrate the height of hypocrisy by claiming you have an “open mind”. You have anything but. You’re willing to read into the cause of death carefully couched language that did not actually state that fentanyl caused his death. You’re willing to believe whatever Turley writes because you are racist and not well educated, just like you fell for Trump and his lies. The only defense Turley can come up with is to exaggerate what the ME’s report actually said, which was NOT fentanyl overdose. Yet, you know better.



Reply

Young - April 5, 2021

Natch: “Turley threw in the fentanyl as a red herring: to get the jury distracted from Chauvin’s outrageous conduct.”

*** I wonder if you actually know that Professor Turley is not part of either trial team and he will not be handing red herrings to the jury for evidence of for lunch.



Reply

YSL - April 5, 2021 Natacha is an attorney and a nurse. She is also in her 70s and likely does her fair share of meds.



Reply

Young April 5, 2021

YSL – She might need more meds if she thinks Professor Turley is submitting evidence to confuse the jury.

If she is a lawyer I wish she had joined the other loons who volunteered to help the prosecution. So far the state has presented nothing to show that any of the police officers caused the death of George Floyd.

Apparently the chief brought up something about the department’s transgender policy. I can’t imagine why. They can’t possibly salvage this case by saying George Floyd was a black, transgender beauty queen trying to pirouette her life around before Evil Chauvin choked her to death. Can’t wait for the new tutu wall paintings in her honor, though.

Maybe Natch is part of the prosecution team.



Karen S - April 5, 2021

Natacha:

“I’m still waiting for her to cash in on her fame, which is what you claimed was her motivation to lie about what he did to her.” You believed Christine Blasey Ford without any supporting evidence, and in the face of exculpatory evidence.

Women should be believed unless they accuse Joe Biden or Cuomo, is that it?

Again, you insist on disregarding facts. You just believe what you want to believe. It is a frightening possibility to think of you on a jury. I’m curious. Why do you think that George Floyd said he couldn’t breathe and began struggling, long before Chauvin ever put his knee on him? I’m not talking about at the end, while he was on the ground. I can post the transcript of the entire interaction with the police.

You can lie and call me racist all you want. It won’t make it true; but it does make you look dishonest. Falsely accusing someone of being racist because you are over faced with a discussion is a reprehensible act.

YOU are the only person claiming you know better than the facts presented at trial. You are the personification of the lynch mob, unreachable. By contrast, I’ve said I’m open to changing my mind if evidence convinces me.

Here is the transcript of the 911 call, during the time in which you claim Floyd was “fine”…while on Fentanyl and meth.

Operator: 911 what’s the address of the emergency?
Caller: This is ah 3759 Chicago Ave.
Operator: How can I help you?
Caller: Um someone comes our store and give us fake bills and we realize it before he left the store, and we ran back outside, they was sitting on their car. We tell them to give us their phone, put their (inaudible) thing back and everything and he was also drunk and everything and return to give us our cigarettes back and so he can, so he can go home but he doesn’t want to do that, and he’s sitting on his car cause he is awfully drunk and he’s not in control of himself. Operator: Okay, what type of vehicle does he have?
Caller: And …. um he’s got a vehicle that is ah … one second let me see if I can see the license. The driver license is BRJ026.
Operator: Okay, what color is it?
Caller: It’s a blue color. It’s a blue van.
Operator: Blue van?
Caller: Yes, van.
Operator: Alright blue van, gotcha. Is it out front or is it on 38th St.?
Caller: Ah it’s on 38th St.
Operator: On 38th St. So, this guy gave a counterfeit bill, has your cigarettes, and he’s under the influence of something?
Caller: Something like that, yes. He is not acting right.
Operator: What’s he look like, what race?
Caller: Um, he’s a tall guy. He’s like tall and bald, about like 6 … 6 1/2, and she’s not acting right so and she started to go, drive the car.
Operator: Okay so, female or a male?
Caller: Um…
Operator: Is it a girl or a boy?
Caller: (Talking to somebody else) — he’s asking (inaudible) one second. Hello?
Operator: Is it a girl or a boy that did this?
Caller: It is a man.
Operator: Okay. Is he white, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?
Caller: Something like that.
Operator: Which one? White, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?
Caller: No, he’s a black guy.
Operator: Alright (sigh).
Caller: How is your day going?
Operator: Not too bad.
Caller: Had a long day, huh?
Operator: What’s your name?
Caller: My name is (deleted)
Operator: Alright, a phone number for you?
Caller: (Deleted)
Operator: Alright, I’ve got help on the way. If that vehicle or that person leaves before we get there, just give us a call back,
otherwise we’ll have squads out there shortly, okay?
Caller: No problem.
Operator: Thank you.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/us/minneapolis-george-floyd-911- calls/index.html

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Thinkitthrough - April 5, 2021

Natacha, the last time I looked the Christine Blakey Ford go fund me page had collected over $1,500,000. Just a little manner of a million and a half of cashing in. Another convenient lapse of memory by the prestigious Doctor Natacha. I’ll offer a little leeway to Dr. Natacha. Maybe she just doesn’t know.

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The libs keep feeding This monsTer

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I never wore Those ugly ass shoes

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Karen S - April 5, 2021

Full transcript of police body cam footage during their incident with George Floyd from beginning to end. He acted erratically and became increasingly frantic before he ever was on the ground:

https://www.twincities.com/2020/07/09/george-floyd-transcript-read- it-in-full-here/

I can’t copy and paste this transcript, as it is an image.

Some interesting quotes. I’ve put a space between different parts of the transcript:

Lane to Shawanda Renee Hill: “Why’s he getting all squirrelly and not showing us his hands, and just being all weird like that?”

Hill: “I have no idea. Because he’s been shot before.”

Lane to Hill: “Okay, well, so here’s the thing, someone passed a fake bill in there. We came over here, he starts grabbing for the keys, and all that stuff, starts getting weird, not showing us his hands. I don’t know what’s going on, so you’re coming out of the car.”

Lane to Floyd: “Are you on something right now?”

Floyd: “No, nothing.”

Kueng: “Because you’re acting a little erratic.”

Floyd: “I’m scared, man.”

Lane: “Let’s go.”

Kueng: “You’ve got foam around your mouth too?

Floyd: “Yes, I was just hooping earlier.”

Kueng: “Stand up, stop falling down! Stand up! Stay on your feet and face the car door!”

Floyd: “I’m claustrophobic, man, please, man, please.”

Then he argues about not wanting to get in the car, feeling claustrophobic, and arguing why they don’t believe him.

Floyd: “I can’t choke! I can’t breathe, Mr Officer! Please! Please!” (Note that this is still pretty early in the confrontation.)

Kueng: “Fine”

Floyd: “My wrist! My wrist, man! Hooping is taking the drug rectally.

If you ... don'T use exclamaTion poinTs --- you should'T be Typeing ! Commas - semicolons - quesTion marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2021-04-06   4:21:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#0)

Karen S - April 5, 2021

Full transcript of police body cam footage during their incident with George Floyd from beginning to end. He acted erratically and became increasingly frantic before he ever was on the ground:

https://www.twincities.com/2020/07/09/george-floyd-transcript-read- it-in-full-here/

I can’t copy and paste this transcript, as it is an image.

Some interesting quotes. I’ve put a space between different parts of the transcript:

Lane to Shawanda Renee Hill: “Why’s he getting all squirrelly and not showing us his hands, and just being all weird like that?”

Hill: “I have no idea. Because he’s been shot before.”

Lane to Hill: “Okay, well, so here’s the thing, someone passed a fake bill in there. We came over here, he starts grabbing for the keys, and all that stuff, starts getting weird, not showing us his hands. I don’t know what’s going on, so you’re coming out of the car.”

Lane to Floyd: “Are you on something right now?”

Floyd: “No, nothing.”

Kueng: “Because you’re acting a little erratic.”

Floyd: “I’m scared, man.”

Lane: “Let’s go.”

Kueng: “You’ve got foam around your mouth too?

Floyd: “Yes, I was just hooping earlier.”

Kueng: “Stand up, stop falling down! Stand up! Stay on your feet and face the car door!”

Floyd: “I’m claustrophobic, man, please, man, please.”

Then he argues about not wanting to get in the car, feeling claustrophobic, and arguing why they don’t believe him.

Floyd: “I can’t choke! I can’t breathe, Mr Officer! Please! Please!” (Note that this is still pretty early in the confrontation.)

Kueng: “Fine”

Floyd: “My wrist! My wrist, man! I want to lay on the ground! I want to lay on the ground! I want to lay on the ground!"

Lane: “You’re getting in the squad.”

Floyd: “I want to lay on the ground! I’m going down. I’m going down. I’m going down.”

Kueng: “Take a squat.”

Speaker 9: “Bro, you about to have a heart attack and s*&^&t man, get in the car!”

Floyd: “I know. I can’t breathe. I can’t breathe.”

Then Floyd continues to say he can’t breathe, so they lay him on the ground. He keeps saying he can’t breathe. Then you hear Chauvin.

Chauvin, Lane, and Kueng all tell Floyd that he’s talking. Essentially, they use the line of reasoning that if you can talk, you can breathe. As an asthmatic, I really hate this myth. You can say at least a few words right up until you pass out and die. They escalate the EMS code from 2 to 3. They talk about him being high on something, and that they found a pipe.

At one point onlookers are calling out that he appears to have passed out. They keep asking the officers to check his pulse and if he is breathing. Two of the officers say he is still breathing. Lane repeatedly asks if they can move him to his side or something.

----------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------

Thinkitthrough - April 5, 2021

Oh my Natacha.

It doesn’t matter if Floyd knew that he was positive for COVID-19. He was suffering the symptoms whether knew it or not. The lungs fill up with thick mucus restricting the breathing of the infected person. If quickly placed on a respirator there’s a chance of survival. Even if on a respirator when co-existing conditions such as heart disease are present the possibility of death increases to a high degree. This is why protecting of our elderly with pre-existing conditions is so important. George Floyd made himself prematurely aged, did not protect himself and suffered the consequences.

----------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------

Karen S - April 5, 2021

I’m just a lay person, but I strongly feel this case was not charged correctly. It seems more like mob justice than actual justice.

From my perspective, I think Chauvin behaved in a callous way towards George Floyd. After he stopped struggling, he should have been sat up, and different positions tried to help alleviate his respiratory distress while they awaited EMT. Based upon the condition of his heart and lungs, the presence of a fatal overdose of Fentanyl along with meth in his system, and his Covid-19 positive status, I surmise that George Floyd would have died anyway. But he would have died while the police were trying to help him.

George Floyd was an instrument in his own destruction. You don’t take Fentanyl if you want to live. Best case scenario is that it’s Russian roulette with your life for recreation. Worst case is that it’s deliberate suicide. How the heck do anesthesia drugs get to the street? This stuff is poison. George Floyd’s life was going very wrong, hurtling down the drain, the moment he took Fentanyl. There must have been a lot going wrong that led up to that fateful choice.

Chauvin featured at the end of his life. I have not heard evidence yet proving Chauvin killed George Floyd. But he sure as heck made his passing harder and more frightening. George Floyd’s lungs were filling with fluid and his respiration slowing due to the overdose. His heart was racing due to the meth, and likely panic. His instinct might have been to fight and run, but he couldn’t run away from what he’d done to his own body. I wish he had admitted to the police what he had taken, and how much, to get help. Why keep it a secret what he took? They’d give him a blood test anyway. Why not just say what he took and get specific help? But I guess when you’re that high you can’t think rationally.

Unless evidence is presented that change my mind, I don’t think Chauvin killed George Floyd. I think he acted with negligence, and maintained a hold that was in police policy far longer than reasonably indicated. I don’t think he tried to help his breathing, which was negligent, but I believe Floyd was dying because of the overdose. It is still possible that evidence might prove that Chauvin hastened the death of a dying man.

The other police officers were rookies one week on the job. I don’t think they should have been charged at all. The hold had been part of their training, and Chauvin was their superior officer. Chauvin was holding him, waiting for EMTs to arrive.

I am glad that this hold has already been removed from so many police training, as it had years ago with the LAPD. A silver lining is that this tragedy induced more police departments to abandon this type of hold, and to review how to deal with strong drug addicts who are fighting and out of their minds on drugs. I cannot imagine how difficult it is to deal with someone on drugs and fighting.

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Reply

Natacha - April 5, 2021

Good God –you again. You state as if it were an established fact that Floyd: 1. had a fatal overdose in his system; THERE IS NO RELIABLE EVIDENCE OF THIS; yet you know better; postmortem levels of Fentanyl bear no relation to pre-death levels; fentanyl overdose was not listed as a cause of death, and no amount of posts from Turley will change this fundamental fact; 2. “the condition of his heart and lungs” what about it? What condition, Dr. Karen? Whatever these conditions were, he was fine until Chauvin knelt on his neck; how you you know that kneeling on Floyd’s neck didn’t cause lung congestion? 3. COVID 19 status–what does this have to do with anything? Was he symptomatic? What role did COFID + status play? Any role? None is listed by the doctors. 4. Floyd would have died anyway. Did the video in the store appear that he was in distress or dying?

As your posts always prove, you think you are more sophisticated and knowledgeable than you are, especially about medical things. What you are is racist and gullible and an unsophisticated know it all who thinks her opinions on medical and legal matters are important. We can just hope there aren’t some of your kind on the jury.

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DSB - April 5, 2021

During interviews and at trial, the ambulance driver says George Floyd was on his left side. In the picture Eric Nelson showed in court, George Floyd appears to be at about a 45 degree angle to the ground. I don’t know how long he was in that position, but he was definitely not prone on the ground at that point.

Also, the drug was a speedball – fentanyl and methamphetamine. The meth prolongs the fentanyl high I believe. That is why in his opening remarks regarding fentanyl, Jerry Blackwell was disingenuous at best.

Hooping is taking the drug rectally.

If you ... don'T use exclamaTion poinTs --- you should'T be Typeing ! Commas - semicolons - quesTion marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2021-04-06   4:26:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: All (#2) (Edited)

Hooping is Taking The drug recTally.

Thinkitthrough - April 5, 2021

So what happens to people who have COVID-19?

Their lungs fill up with fluid which makes them unable to breath.

What happens to people with Covid-19 who have pre-existing conditions such as heart disease?

What happened to Floyd’s mask in his attempt to protect those around him from his virus?

Chauvin should have looked into his crystal ball and tested Floyd for COVID-19 and immediately put him on the respirator in the back of the squad car.

All else should be considered a shirking of his duty.

Reply

Natacha - April 5, 2021

Being COVID positive does not mean that you are symptomatic. Also, did Floyd know he was COVID positive?

Reply

Young - April 5, 2021

“did Floyd know he was COVID positive?”

*** I think he told the police he was.

He should have been wearing a mask and isolating.

Reply

Thinkitthrough - April 5, 2021

Oh my Natacha. It doesn’t matter if Floyd knew that he was positive for COVID-19. He was suffering the symptoms whether knew it or not. The lungs fill up with thick mucus restricting the breathing of the infected person. If quickly placed on a respirator there’s a chance of survival. Even if on a respirator when co-existing conditions such as heart disease are present the possibility of death increases to a high degree. This is why protecting of our elderly with pre-existing conditions is so important. George Floyd made himself prematurely aged, did not protect himself and suffered the consequences.

Reply

Anonymous - April 6, 2021

@Thinkitthrough.

COVID is not even a factor here unless you want to say that it contributed to the pulmonary edema which was due to the prolonged drug use.

With a level of 11 ng/ml of Fentanyl in his blood stream… that’s going to be a major factor in terms of his cause of death.

Reply

______________

NO DEATHS FROM NECK RESTRAINT _ _ _ _ _

“Minneapolis Police Used Neck Restraints 237 Times, Left 44 People Unconscious Since 2015, Records Show”

Minneapolis Police Department officers have used neck restraints to subdue at least 237 people since 2015, according to an NBC News report published on Monday.

The report, which analyzed Minneapolis police records dating back roughly five years, also found that officers’ use of the disarming restraint tactic caused subjects to lose consciousness in 44 of those instances. Data showed that 60 percent of individuals restrained by police using this method were black, 30 percent were white, and the remainder were Native Americans, NBC News said in its evaluation.

– Newsweek __________

“Floyd tested positive for coronavirus in April, and again following his death last week,…final autopsy results show.”

“…final autopsy results released by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner.”

“Floyd had bruises and cuts on his head, face, mouth, shoulders, arms and legs from when the officer forced him to the ground and knelt on his neck.”

“It found no evidence of major neck injuries, skull or brain injuries. There was no damage to internal organs, it said.”

“The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact,”

“…finds no evidence that any of those injuries directly would have killed him.”

“The final autopsy says Floyd had heart disease and a history of high blood pressure.”

“It includes a more complete toxicology report that said Floyd had evidence of several drugs in his blood and urine, including morphine, fentanyl, cannabis and methamphetamine,…”

– CNN

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Reply

daveginoly - April 5, 2021

Floyd had ingested a lethal dose of fentanyl to prevent the officers from finding the drug on his person. He also had meth in his system. Fentanyl kills by filling the lungs with water (Floyd was reported by a witness to be “foaming at the mouth”) and meth causes extreme agitation (realized as resisting arrest and struggling after being handcuffed and restrained on the ground).

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Sam - April 6, 2021

“Fentanyl kills by filling the lungs with water . . .”

And by causing a *heart attack*:

“Fatal overdoses of fentanyl usually result from respiratory collapse, although the drug’s capacity to depress central nervous system activity can cause other dangerous or deadly side effects, including brain damage due to oxygen deprivation, heart attack, or organ failure.”

https://www.altamirarecovery.com/fentanyl/risks-fentanyl-overdose/

If you ... don'T use exclamaTion poinTs --- you should'T be Typeing ! Commas - semicolons - quesTion marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2021-04-06   15:59:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: BorisY (#3)

Thank you for the thread.

THIS IS A TAG LINE...Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it.

jeremiad  posted on  2021-04-08   21:01:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: jeremiad (#4) (Edited)

res ipsa loquitur noun

res ipsa lo·​qui·​tur

variants: also res ipsa loquitor -​ÈlM-​kwY-​tYr

Legal Definition of res ipsa loquitur

: a doctrine or rule of evidence in tort law that permits an inference or presumption that a defendant was negligent in an accident injuring the plaintiff on the basis of circumstantial evidence if the accident was of a kind that does not * ordinarily occur in the absence of negligence

a plaintiff who establishes the elements of res ipsa loquitur can withstand a motion for summary judgment and reach the jury without direct proof of negligence — Cox v. May Dept. Store Co., 903 P.2d 1119 (1995)

NOTE: For res ipsa loquitur to apply, the accident in question must not be due to any voluntary action or contribution by the plaintiff.

The doctrine has traditionally required that a defendant have exclusive control over the instrumentality of an injury, but now it is commonly applied when multiple defendants have joint or sometimes successive control (as by the manufacturer and retailer of a defective product). In addition to the control requirement, and sometimes superseding it, is the requirement that a defendant have responsibility for the instrumentality as well as responsibility to the plaintiff. In order for res ipsa loquitur to succeed in a medical malpractice suit, the fact that the accident is one that ordinarily does not occur without a failure to exercise due care must be readily apparent to the layperson as common knowledge.

The accident alone should afford reasonable evidence of negligence, * as when a foreign object * * is left inside a surgical patient.

History and Etymology for res ipsa loquitur

Latin, the thing speaks for itself

* heart disease - attack

* * The drugs killed him

* * * nobody puT - lefT ThaT There

ps

Typical liberalism

driving drunk

blaming The road kill

If you ... don'T use exclamaTion poinTs --- you should'T be Typeing ! Commas - semicolons - quesTion marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2021-04-11   14:41:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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