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Title: What It's Like At The Training Camp Where US Troops Learn To Survive If They Are Captured
Source: Business Insider
URL Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/her ... -like-at-sere-training-2014-12
Published: Dec 25, 2014
Author: WARD CARROLL
Post Date: 2020-04-23 06:27:53 by Gatlin
Keywords: None
Views: 914
Comments: 33

What It's Like At The Training Camp Where
US Troops Learn To Survive If They Are Captured

Poster Note: It is like: “Holy Hell” – And a training experience that will put the ultimate test on the personality traits that distinguish the qualities and characteristics that are the embodiment of an individual's will and determination to undergo torture. It will shape your habitual patterns of behavior, temperament and emotion for the good and benefit your thorough your entire life span.

SERE was referred to in the REMEMBERING HUMBERT “ROCKY” VERSACE, MOH, 29 OCTOBER 1963 article posted here.

For my crime of earning a Naval Flight Officer’s Wings of Gold and being selected for training as an F-14 Tomcat radar intercept officer (like “Goose” in the movie “Top Gun”) I was sent to the Navy’s Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape – SERE – School in Brunswick, Maine during the winter of 1984.

My fellow trainees and I stepped off the C-9 from Norfolk and were hit by a biting wind, the kind that’s normal for Maine in January. I immediately wondered why I hadn’t tried to push off SERE School until June or July.

The first couple of training days were conducted in a classroom. The lead instructor had been in the backseat of an F-4 Phantom that was shot down over Hanoi and had spent nearly three years as a POW. He explained that since we were all aviators there was a likelihood that we could fall into the hands of the enemy as well, therefore we needed to pay attention and take SERE training to heart. “This is the most important school the Navy will ever send you to,” he said.

The crux of the classroom training was an in-depth review of the Code of Conduct, a list of six “articles” created after American POWs suffered at the hands of their captors during the Korean War. They were all tortured in one form or another. Many were brainwashed; some even refused to return to the United States after the war.


A US flag and a POW flag fly over the SERE training school.

Here are the six articles of the Code of Conduct:

1) I am an American fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

2) I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

3) If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

4) If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information nor take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

5) When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

6) I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

The night before we were bussed across Maine and dropped in the mountains that border Canada, we decided to stuff ourselves with KFC, hoping that would give us the energy we needed to get through the field portion of SERE. Early the next morning we were issued cold weather clothing and reminded that it was more than we’d have if we’d had our jets shot from under us.

And the fact we were also given snowshoes should have been a warning sign that the weather where we were going was more brutal than the already miserable weather at Naval Air Station Brunswick on the Atlantic Ocean side of the state.

After a four-hour drive westward into higher elevations we wandered off the bus and were greeted by a group of “partisans,” friendly locals who welcomed us to the Peoples Republic of North America – PRONA. The partisans explained that PRONA was a Soviet satellite (remember, this was 1984 and the Cold War was still in full swing) and that they were a small band of rebels fighting for freedom.

We found out later that the partisans, like everyone else in the land of PRONA, were actually a combination of local outdoorsmen on retainer and DoD personnel on loan to SERE School. The partisans spoke English with thick eastern European accents. They were acting, of course, but it was believable.

The partisans broke us into groups of 10 and led us into the forest where they gave us instruction in some of the basics of survival, including how to use the snowshoes to navigate the massive snowdrifts we encountered.

That night we were allowed to make a campfire and eat meat of unknown origin and huddle as a group to stay warm.

The next day our partisan told us that the army of PRONA was looming and we needed to break up the group and attempt to evade individually. I spent the balance of the daylight hours crunching through the forest trying to be sneaky in spite of the fact there was no way to be while wearing snowshoes. Right before it got dark I fashioned a quick snow fort as our partisan had instructed and climbed into my sleeping bag for a few hours of trying to keep the exposed part of my face from freezing.

At daybreak one of the partisans came and got me –obviously my hiding place sucked – and said that the enemy threat was gone for the time being and we were going to form up the entire group and march to a safe place. It was actually a trap (and a lesson in who not to trust during wartime).

The formation was interrupted by gunshots. The partisans disappeared into the forest and suddenly we were surrounded by military trucks and dudes in uniform yelling at us in a foreign tongue. Whatever training scenario context remained in our minds evaporated as our new captors slapped us – like hard – and threw us to the ground.

We were forcibly loaded into the back of the troop transports and driven along a long road down the mountain, repeatedly told during the trip not to look out the back of the trucks or we’d be shot.

The guard removed my blindfold and forced me to sit on a box that was barely a foot tall and place my arms along my legs with my palms facing upward – what he called “the po-seesh.” “Get in po-seesh!” he yelled, Prona-ese for “position,” I assumed.

The guard told me I was “War Criminal Number One Five” and that I should refer to myself as such. Then he pointed to a tin can lined with a plastic bag in the corner and explained that it was my “sanitary facility” in the event I had to use the bathroom, but I was not to use it without permission.

He slammed the door to my cell shut and then peered through the small hatch in the door and, seeing I was not in the po-seesh, promptly re-entered the cell and roughed me up for a bit. I spent the next hours doing the calculus of holding the uncomfortable po-seesh and relaxing with the understanding that if the guard caught me I’d weather another beating.

As I sat there wondering what was going to happen next a wide variety of psyops stuff blared through the speaker mounted high in one corner of the small cell. A mind-numbing cacophony of an out-of-control saxophone was followed by Rudyard Kipling reciting his poem “Boots” over and over in a very haunting voice. (No one who ever attended Navy SERE will forget “Boots.”)

Occasionally instructions from the guards were piped over the speaker, for instance, the rules for heeding calls of nature: “War criminals wishing to use the sanity facilities must ask permission by saying, ‘War criminal numbering whatever wishes to urinate or defecate.’ Do not do so until you are told to do so!”

At some point a guard entered my cell, blindfolded me, and led me to an interview with the camp commander. His friendly demeanor led me to believe this was the “soft sell” portion of my interrogation. He asked me how I was feeling. I joked I was hungry. He looked concerned and said he’d get me some hot food right after I got back to my cell. I also joked that the music was terrible and I’d prefer the Beatles, and he said he’d make that happen right away too. Then he asked me where I was stationed. I said I couldn’t answer that. He asked me what kind of airplanes I flew. I said I couldn’t answer that either. After a second round of refusals his friendly mood shifted into anger, and he ordered the guard to take me back to my cell, saying I was “insincere” and needed to see the provost marshal for further “re-edu-ma-cation.”

After another extended period in solitary confinement in my cell accompanied by “Boots” on repeat, I was blindfolded again and taken to another part of the camp. As I was led through the snow I heard loud banging and people screaming. Once inside the building my blindfold was removed and one of the guards told me to climb into a small box, barely big enough for me to fit.

Once I’d wedged myself in, the guard slammed the lid. He instructed me that when he banged on the box once I was to yell my war criminal number, and when he banged twice I was to yell my social security number. This went on for a while, and fortunately I don’t get claustrophobic, cause if I did the confined space would have freaked me out.

The box treatment was followed by some “up and jumps,” known to the rest of us as jumping jacks, and other calisthenics punctuated by guards slapping me and throwing me to the floor. When I was good and winded a guard led me to a room where a big burly man with a red beard was waiting.

Red Beard asked me a few questions about my military profile, and each time I didn’t answer he slapped me. He produced an American flag and threw it on the ground and told me to dance on it. I tried to avoid it but he pushed me and I wound up stepping on the flag and as I did a photographer appeared and snapped a shot.

After another round of questions I didn’t answer, Red Beard decided it was time for stronger measures. He pushed me to the floor and made me sit on my hands. He straddled my legs as he fired up some pipe tobacco and started blowing smoke into my face using a large rubber tube.

I couldn’t breathe. The room started spinning. My head hit the floor. I puked.

And to my horror – even though I’d hadn’t quite finished puking – Red Beard blew more smoke in my face.

This felt like real torture, and I was convinced he was going to kill me. As I fought to get a clean breath of air, I managed to beg him to stop and offered to tell him something, hoping to employ the technique where you try to bend but not break by throwing out some meaningless bullshit.

I told him I was stationed in Florida even though I was really stationed in Virginia and that I flew helicopters even though I flew jets. Red Beard laughed and called the guard back in, telling him to give me as much food and water as I wanted because I’d been very helpful.

As I was led back to my cell blindfolded I felt like a total pussy who’d caved too easily.

After another period in solitary with my morale at an all-time low, a guard came and got me and led me back to the camp commander’s office. The camp commander told me about a junior enlisted man who’d gone through the same torture but instead of talking he’d come off the floor screaming “Article Five!” – a reference to the Code of Conduct where it states a POW should only give name, rank, and date of birth. “You are supposed to be an officer, but an enlisted man is stronger than you,” he said. “And you are insincere. You told us wrong information. I am sending you back to the provost.”

Sure enough, after more time in my cell to contemplate my shortcomings as an officer, I was back in front of Red Beard.

I hated Red Beard. I hated PRONA. And I felt another emotion that was like an epiphany: I wasn’t about to let America down again. The nation was depending on me to be strong. That’s why they’d given me my Annapolis education and put me through flight school. (Seriously, all of these things ran through my brain in that torture chamber.) If I had to die, so be it. Let the smoke blow . . .

After some more passing out and puking followed by more passing out and puking, Red Beard let me go.

The next day we were let out of solitary confinement and forced to do hard labor around the camp where our tasks included carving a “heli-mo-copter pad” in the ice-covered ground – an impossible task for which we were beaten for our lack of progress. One guy was stripped to his underwear and forced to stand at attention as his clothes were burned in front of him.

The camp commander gathered us together and, holding a Bible aloft, told us our beliefs were bullshit and that the only religious figure Americans truly worshiped was St. Walt Disney. He threw the Bible down and stomped it, which caused some of the prisoners to react enough that the guards felt obliged to slap them and throw them on the ground.

This cycle of hard labor in the freezing cold followed by “re-edu-ma-cation” sessions from PRONA’s propaganda machine went on for hours and hours, until the sun was about to set on our miserable existence once again. Morale was low. We were sure we were never getting out of there and our lives as we knew them were over.

Suddenly there was another burst of gunfire and a group of guys in cammies rappelled over the walls of the compound at various spots. They took the camp personnel into custody and announced that they were Navy SEALs. The flag of PRONA hung against the main guard tower was replaced by the Stars and Stripes as the National Anthem played over the camp PA.

There wasn’t a dry eye among us as we sang along. We were Americans, and we were free again. The Senate Intelligence Committee’s recent report on the CIA’s enhanced torture techniques during the early years of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has restarted discussions about DoD’s methods and where they’re taught and learned. The SERE School curriculum has been lumped into those discussions.

But for me SERE wasn’t about the torture. It was about the realization that the pomp and ceremony, the pageantry and adulation that surrounded wearing a Navy officer’s uniform was meaningless without the courage and commitment that underpins them.

SERE taught me a big lesson in sacking up, and I can say without any hesitation that it was, in fact, the most important school the Navy ever sent me to.

Poster comment:
… and the most important school the US Air Force ever sent me to.

(6 images)

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TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Gatlin (#0)

The camp commander gathered us together and, holding a Bible aloft, told us our beliefs were bullshit and that the only religious figure Americans truly worshiped was St. Walt Disney. He threw the Bible down and stomped it, which caused some of the prisoners to react enough that the guards felt obliged to slap them and throw them on the ground.

Highly doubt the "camp commander" was acting when he did this.

He did tell the truth though..."that the only religious figure Americans truly worshiped was St. Walt Disney".

His little bit of truth telling will not save him from the Lake of Fire, though.

Add this guy to your list of "10 people who give Christianity a bad name".

Go ahead and add yourself, too, Gatlin.

watchman  posted on  2020-04-23   8:38:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: watchman, Deckard (#1)

You're misinterpreting Gatlin's psychotic game; In this particular exercise, forum respondents are "captured" by his spider web game as HE plays the role as forum "Captor".

He's been trying so very hard to tell you who and what his "situation" is and was.

Liberator  posted on  2020-04-23   8:50:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Gatlin, Sneakypete (#0) (Edited)

I did go through a course on Survival, Escape, & Evasion of a few days at Ft Belvoir. But definitely not of the intensity that this story implies. During that course, we met a Maj Rowe, Colonel Rowe when he was killed in the Phillipines. Some of you may be familiar with him.

After hearing his presentation, my hatred / disgust for Hanoi Jane intensified !

I will withold my comments, until Pete posts his opinion of this !

I am of the opinion he is far more qualified.

How about it Pete ? Hope you are feeling well, and can give your comments !

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

"No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

People that say money can't buy you happiness, have never paid an adoption fee

Stoner  posted on  2020-04-23   11:51:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Liberator (#2)

He's been trying so very hard to tell you who and what his "situation" is and was.

The cat has Gatlin's tongue.

You seem to know all about Gatlin's "psychotic game".

Why don't you tell me 'who and what his "situation" is and was'.

I'll wait.

watchman  posted on  2020-04-23   12:13:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: watchman (#4) (Edited)

Why don't you tell me 'who and what his "situation" is and was'.

I'll wait.

Wait not. Especially now that I understand your own game.

I've over-estimated you.

Liberator  posted on  2020-04-23   12:18:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Stoner (#3) (Edited)

I did go through a course on Survival, Escape, & Evasion of a few days at Ft Belvoir. But definitely not of the intensity that this story implies. During that course, we met a Maj Rowe, Colonel Rowe when he was killed in the Phillipines. Some of you may be familiar with him.

For those who don't know,Nick Rowe was a 1st Lt (I don't think he was a Captain yet )on a SF A detachment in the Delta in the early days of the VN war,and after the patrol he was leading was caught in an ambush and the two other SF advisors with him were seriously wounded,he decided to surrender so he could provide medical care to his two teammates.

They later credited him with saving their lives. They were captured by the VC in VN instead of the NVA in Laos or Cambodia,so IIRC were released when the war ended.

AFAIK,NO ONE who went missing in action in either Laos or Cambodia was ever released,or identified as a POW by the North Vietnamese government.

Search teams have found and identified the remains of several pilots who were shot down in Laos or Cambodia,though. They were found because they mostly died in aircraft crashes,and the US government knew where the aircraft crashed.

This was not true of the SF guys running covert ground operations in Laos or Cambodia,though. The NVA didn't keep them in a prison camp for the most part. The moved them around from one base camp to another to make them hard to find.

Since none were ever recovered and their remains never found,it is assumed the NVA just executed them at the end of the war and buried them in remote locations.

A couple of years later Nick Lowe escaped from his VC captors when a helicopter happened to be passing over a jungle clearing as his captors were getting ready to lead him through it,and he broke free and ran out into the open and waved his arms to attract the chopper crew. They saw the beard,knew he was an American instead of a VC,so they made a gun run around him to kill his captors,and then landed to rescue him

Unbelievable as it was,by chance the chopper pilot who landed to pick him up was a OCS classmate of his from years before.

He was promoted to Major due to his time in grade and length of service,and IIRC,his next stop was at the Special Warfare Center at Bragg,where he taught SF students how the VC operated on both combat operations as well as setting up base camps and patrolling,and taught classes in escape and evasion.

Later he went to Philippines to help them with the Moro (I THINK that is what they were called) communists in revolt on some of the southern islands.

Ironically enough,he was killed in a city when a bomb planted in the car he was driving exploded when he started it.

BTW,I never knew Nick Lowe personally,or was even in the same country as him at the same time,AFAIK. EVERYBODY that was in SF in the middle to late 60's knew who he was and what his history was,though.

If you spend a couple of years in SF back then,EVERYBODY knew you by reputation if they didn't know you personally,and your reputation determined what teams you were allowed to become a member on,and what other assignments you might get.

Trust that you would do your duty was EVERYTHING.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-23   12:45:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Stoner, sneakypete (#3)

Stoner: "I did go through a course on Survival, Escape, & Evasion of a few days at Ft Belvoir. But definitely not of the intensity that this story implies. During that course, we met a Maj Rowe, Colonel Rowe when he was killed in the Phillipines. Some of you may be familiar with him."

Pete: "For those who don't know,Nick Rowe was a 1st Lt (I don't think he was a Captain)on a SF A detachment in the early days of the VN war,and after the patrol he was leading was caught in an ambush and the two other SF advisors with him were seriously wounded,he decided to surrender so he could provide medical care to his two teammates.

"A couple of years later he escaped from his VC captors when a helicopter happened to be passing over a jungle clearing as his captors were getting ready to lead him throught it,and he broke free [and was rescued]....

"Unbelievable as it was,by chance the chopper pilot who landed to pick him up was a OCS classmate of his from years before....

"He was promoted to Major due to his time in grade and length of service,and IIRC,his next stop was at the Special Warfare Center at Bragg,where he taught SF students how the VC operated on both combat operations as well as setting up base camps and patrolling,and taught classes in escape and evasion...."

I'm not familiar with Nick Rowe or his story. Thanks. It is apparently the stuff of movies. And books.

Liberator  posted on  2020-04-23   12:56:07 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: sneakypete, Stoner (#6)



Col. James 'Nick' Rowe

Gatlin  posted on  2020-04-23   13:02:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Liberator (#7)

I'm not familiar with Nick Rowe or his story.

Well,it wasn't the type of thing that drew any attention in the press back then.

After all,he didn't murder a single baby.

There was no one in SF in the late 60's through the 70's that didn't know who he was or what he did,though.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-23   13:03:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Gatlin (#8)

Yup,1st Lt,executive officer on an A Team.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-23   13:04:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: sneakypete, Stoner (#9) (Edited)

Well,it wasn't the type of thing that drew any attention in the press back then...

There was no one in SF in the late 60's through the 70's that didn't know who he was or what he did,though.

Unfortunately, the Media and it's Tentacles didn't draw much attention to war heroes and that kind of sacrifice either. It'd have made you guys look...well, GOOD. Too good.

I'm sure in your circles, Rowe was a legend to you guys.

After all,he didn't murder a single baby.

Right. THAT would have elevated him to a Liberal god. Maybe even Dem President or Senator.

Liberator  posted on  2020-04-23   13:11:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Gatlin (#8)

Didn't really look old enough to have a drivers license,never mind be an XO on a SF A Detachment,did he?

Just goes to show,you really can't tell who or what someone is by looking at them.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-23   13:12:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Liberator (#11)

I'm sure in your circles, Rowe was a legend to you guys.

A safe bet to make.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-23   13:13:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: watchman. And All Other Faux-Christians. (#1)

From the article: The camp commander gathered us together and, holding a Bible aloft, told us our beliefs were bullshit and that the only religious figure Americans truly worshiped was St. Walt Disney. He threw the Bible down and stomped it, which caused some of the prisoners to react enough that the guards felt obliged to slap them and throw them on the ground.

Wahtchmn: Highly doubt the "camp commander" was acting when he did this.

Kindly reveal how it was that you came to be the stereotypical “Doubting Thomas” where you constantly display that you are an eternal skeptic who displays that he refuses to believe without direct personal experience.

Can you?

Also, please share with everyone your illustrious military combat experience - if you had any and what your job was.

Go ahead and add yourself, too, Gatlin.

Right after I add you to the top of my list of “holier-than-thou” faux-Christians – who claim to follow God yet pretends to be God by judging others – I have grown to despise.

It is a position you have distinctly earned through the constant display of your sanctimonious judgmental attitude to unseat Stone from the top of the list.

Gatlin  posted on  2020-04-23   14:12:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Gatlin (#14) (Edited)

who claim to follow God yet pretends to be God by judging others

John 7:24 King James Version 24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

We are commanded to judge. Just not to judge as hypocrites.

For example if a kid was so unfortunate to have you as a father. If you had a neighbor who was on the sex offender list as a pedophile. Would you judge that neighbor and not ask them to babysit for you? Or would you judge them and say hell no they will not babysit for me?

You're an idiot by the way.

A K A Stone  posted on  2020-04-23   14:19:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sneakypete (#12)

Just goes to show,you really can't tell who or what someone is by looking at them. /font>

And for that matter, you really can’t tell who or what someone is by judging them from the content of their posts on a chit-chat forum.

[Note to self – Start a new thread on: “Why Do We Misjudge Others”].

Gatlin  posted on  2020-04-23   14:19:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: All (#16) (Edited)

[Note to self – Start a new thread on: “Why Do We Misjudge Others”].

Mission Accomplished here.

Gatlin  posted on  2020-04-23   14:28:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Gatlin, Liberator (#14)

Kindly reveal how it was that you came to be the stereotypical “Doubting Thomas” where you constantly display that you are an eternal skeptic who displays that he refuses to believe without direct personal experience.

Can you?

Your opening statement makes absolutely no sense. Please decipher that for me, would you?

Also, please share with everyone your illustrious military combat experience - if you had any and what your job was.

I graduated HS in '75. The military at that time was a freaking disaster in the wake of the Vietnam War. The people I blame for weakening our military were the very CIA clowns you slobber over, which tells me of your character, as well.

As if you have had an illustrious military combat experience. Your character presented here on the forum just screams "stolen valor", right tater peeler?

Before you get back to pissing on Christianity, would you address Liberator's claim that you are playing a "psychotic game". Thanks in advance.

watchman  posted on  2020-04-23   14:38:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: watchman, Anti-Christian Shill (#18)

As if you have had an illustrious military combat experience.

Exactly.

Bumming plane rides and gophering back in the old OLD days isn't exactly glorious or noteworthy.

The people I blame for weakening our military were the very CIA clowns you slobber over, which tells me of your character, as well.

+500. Truth.

And nor can this sad character borrow faux glory, nor buy honor and integrity on Wall St.

Liberator  posted on  2020-04-23   14:56:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Gatlin (#14)

Right after I add you to the top of my list of “holier-than-thou” faux-Christians – who claim to follow God yet pretends to be God by judging others – I have grown to despise.

It is a position you have distinctly earned through the constant display of your sanctimonious judgmental attitude to unseat Stone from the top of the list.

Perhaps that judgmental feeling you have is not coming from me. I myself am a sinner saved by grace.

What if you are sensing the conviction of the Holy Spirit of your need for God's saving grace.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

An old preacher once said, "I have no hope except that Christ died for my sins according to the Scriptures. I expect to swing out into eternity on that".

What hope do you have, Gatlin? Where will you spend eternity?

watchman  posted on  2020-04-23   19:39:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: watchman (#1)

The camp commander gathered us together and, holding a Bible aloft, told us our beliefs were bullshit and that the only religious figure Americans truly worshiped was St. Walt Disney.

Hmmm, that sounds like a line from a movie, well the "St Walt Disney" part anyways.

He threw the Bible down and stomped it, which caused some of the prisoners to react enough that the guards felt obliged to slap them and throw them on the ground.

All of these "rituals" are a form of "Delta” mind control programming. No big deal.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2020-04-23   20:18:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Deckard (#21)

The camp commander gathered us together and, holding a Bible aloft, told us our beliefs were bullshit...

Maybe they are prepping our troops in the event that they are captured by Atheist Alliance International, or the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

watchman  posted on  2020-04-23   20:41:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Gatlin (#14)

To: watchman. And All Other Faux-Christians.

And......,there goes the neighborhood.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-23   22:55:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: watchman (#18) (Edited)

Gatlin  posted on  2020-04-24   1:10:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Gatlin (#24)

The military at that time was a freaking disaster in the wake of the Vietnam War.

I was promoted to 12 different ranks with 10 different pay grades

There you go.

We all saw guys like you floating around in the military toilet bowl...it was sickening.

My dad (a WWII combat veteran) forbade me from joining any branch of the military.

Your military conduct in those days is the very same conduct you display here on the forum. Enough said.

watchman  posted on  2020-04-24   7:30:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: watchman, gatlin (#25)

Gatlin

The military at that time was a freaking disaster in the wake of the Vietnam War.

I was promoted to 12 different ranks with 10 different pay grades

Good trick when there are only 8 enlisted pay grades,and each pay grade has it's own pay schedule.

You were never in the military,were you?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-04-28   11:28:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: sneakypete (#26)

Good trick when there are only 8 enlisted pay grades

What military has “only 8 enlisted pay grades?”

Gatlin  posted on  2020-04-30   15:39:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: watchman (#25) (Edited)

I was promoted to 12 different ranks with 10 different pay grades

There you go.

Yep, I was really going.

I was promoted to Tech Sergeant [E6] after only 4 years and 11 months service. I was then only one promotion from the highest enlisted rank – a Master Sergeant [E7] – in the Air Force at that time.

I missed being promoted to Warrant Officer since I was 6 months short of the time in grade requirement as a Tech Sergeant in order to be eligible for the “special selection” of 200 E6s and E7s in my critical career field.

So, off to Officer Candidate School …

I was “spot promoted” to Major after only 5 years and 6 months commissioned service and two more promotion steps from looking at being a general.

Yep, I was really going.

A “fast burner” – we were called …

My dad (a WWII combat veteran) forbade me from joining any branch of the military.

Has your dad – a WWII combat veteran – always forbade you from doing things your entire life?

Or does your dad – a WWII combat veteran – only forbid you from doing things during your adult life, after determining that you were incapable of making good decisions as an adult?

If permanent damage hasn’t already been inflicted, you and your dad – a WWII combat veteran – may want to check this out:

Parents who exert too much control over their children could be causing them lifelong psychological damage, according to a study.

It could be of some help to you in your situation …

Incidentally, you dad made the right decision for you.

It is blatantly evident from your attitude that you never had the “right stuff” to serve in our nation’s military …

Gatlin  posted on  2020-05-02   8:12:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Gatlin (#28)

That you were not fragged is a testament to the rock bottom morale you caused. Those under you didn't even care enough to end the suffering.

in the Air Force at that time.

The only classmates from my senior year that joined the Air Force were girls.

I left home at a very early age to make a life of my own. I've always been a self starter. By my early twenties I had a thriving business in NYC. Then I became a Christian and everything changed. That's when my life really began. As the Bible says, "For now we really live".

two more promotion steps from looking at being a general.

Dear God. You're such a sad, miserable person, Gatlin. You truly need Christ in your life. Only He can restore the years that the locusts have eaten.

watchman  posted on  2020-05-02   9:01:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: watchman (#18) (Edited)

The people I blame for weakening our military were the very CIA clowns you slobber over, which tells me of your character, as well.

The CIA didn't have diddly-squat to do with the US Military in VN,other than sometimes going to NCO clubs to have a few drinks.

LOTS of people claimed they were in the CIA in VN,and 99.9 percent of them were lying,and I am suspicious of the remainder.

I was involved in covert operations in VN,Laos,and Cambodia. Went in wearing sterile uniforms,carrying foreign weapons or US weapons that had been reported stolen,no dog tags,no ID cards,nothing.

AND.......,I was an active duty NCO in the US Army.

If you want to take a look at who fucked things up in VN,look at the US Embassy and the US White House.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-05-02   22:06:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Gatlin (#27) (Edited)

What military has “only 8 enlisted pay grades?”

Typo. I MEANT to type "9" instead of "8",and I was writing about the US Military.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-05-02   22:10:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: sneakypete (#30) (Edited)

The CIA didn't have diddly-squat to do with the US Military in VN,other than sometimes going to NCO clubs to have a few drinks.

CIA pilots would come for a couple days R&R to the base where I was stationed. We spent time with them at some all-night poker games and shared drinks together at the Spectre hooch. It was always all social. They had no duty affiliation with the US military.

I was involved in covert operations in VN,Laos,and Cambodia.

I had a close friend who spent some time in Laos. You can read about him here. After spending considerable time together doing duty in the B-58 Hustler, we went our separate ways for a couple years. I then met up with him again to become his sponsor at the Air Command and Staff College when he arrived after his release as a POW to begin attending and I was graduating to leave for Ubon – his last duty station.

Gatlin  posted on  2020-05-03   5:32:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Gatlin (#32)

It was RUMORED that the North Vietnamese executed all the pilots and SOG POW's they were holding prisoner in both Laos and Cambodia because they had never admitted they even had troops in Laos or Cambodia,so how could they be holding POW's there?

I doubt there is anyone left alive today that knows the whole truth about this,but one truth we do know is that no American soldiers or pilots that went MIA in either Laos or Cambodia has ever been found. Not even their remains.

Those who ran SOG ops knew about this because we were the ones who were occasionally tasked with going into either country to try to rescue them if a location was known. AFAIK,none of these rescue attempts were successful,and the only result was a lot of people got shot up.

AFAIK,the ONLY US POW's returned to American control after the war were the pilots shot down over NVN,and any USMC or USA POW's captured during battle in SVN,and held as POW's in SVN.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2020-05-03   23:16:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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