LEFT WING LOONS
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Title: Chelsea Clinton's dubious 'earnings' She made big bucks in chemicals and TV, courtesy of nepotism, not skill
Source:
Washington Times
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 8, 2020
Author: Tammy Bruce
Post Date: 2020-01-08 09:05:57 by IbJensen
Keywords: None
Views: 28346
Comments: 162
With all the talk about Hunter Biden these days, one might get the impression that he is the only child of a politician to benefit from his parents’ position and the last name they inherited. Before Hunter Biden, the son of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden, got his strange but lucrative deal to sit on the board of energy company Burisma Holdings in Ukraine to the tune of $50,000 a month, there was Chelsea Clinton, the only child of former President Bill Clinton and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. She was similarly rewarded with jobs and board positions that had absolutely no relationship with that young woman’s interests, life, education or any perceived expertise. All of this has racked up to what the New York Post reported back in 2015 was an estimated net worth of $15 million for the then-34-year-old. More recently, Barron’s, the finance newspaper, revealed that Chelsea Clinton has now reaped $9 million from a corporate board position. In 2011, while her mother was still secretary of state, she was appointed to IAC/Interactive, an Internet investment company. She receives an annual $50,000 retainer and $250,000 worth of restricted IAC stock units, according to Barron’s. Ironically, and something the Clintons would be loathed to admit, they like most other American families benefitted from President Donald Trump’s leadership and correlating economic renaissance. The Hill reported, “IAC stock has risen 89%, 50% and 36% in 2017, 2018 and 2019, respectively, a far steeper rise in the broader stock market Consequently, Chelsea Clinton reported in December of last year her holdings ballooned to $8.95 million. In 2017, Chelsea Clinton was also named to travel site Expedia’s Board of Directors. Because she’s a … business genius? A travel genius? An investment prodigy? The Hill
Poster Comment: The Clintons are racketeers and murderers. The pile of dead bodies they leave behind them in their unhindered quest for illegal riches should be enough to lock the three of them away for 50 years. Incidentally, Chelsea is absolutely ghastly looking and watching her speak is like a Disney cartoon come to life. Her comments are always vacuously stupid.
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#1. To: IbJensen (#0)
Families look after their children. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as it is not illegal. Companies giving Chelsea Clinton board roles to have access to her famous and powerful parents is not illegal. So what's the issue, then, jealousy?
Are you out of your mind asking me a question like that? I recall thinking you were an asshole after reading some of your blurbs, but that comment puts you in the asshole category. That, of course, puts you in bed with the Democrat-Communist Party which you might enjoy.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
I simply have no problem with nepotism. People love their families, and absolutely have the right to promote them in things under their control. Why wouldn't they?
In general, in civ world, it is what it is. The rich and powerful can shower their money on their kids. There is a problem with nepotism when government favors are being doled out. For example, a government employee agrees to do something unethical in return for a family member being given a government job over more highly qualified applicants. Or two government employees act unethically for mutual benefit. Due to anti-nepotism regulations, a Navy officer could not hire his own wife to work for him as a civilian employee. But two Navy officers could team up and each hire the other guy's wife for a civilian position. In overseas locations, where civilian employment may be limited to on-base employment, this is a common sight. Anti-nepotism regarding military retirees required they be seperated from active duty for at least six months before obtaining civilian employment with the military. That ended a certain form of self-nepotism where the gentleman, before retiring, planned the conversion of his military position to a civilian position, and tailored the job requirements to mirror what was in his military records. That way, he could be the most highly qualified candidate. In a case such as Ukranians contributing millions of dollars to the Hunter Biden dope and hooker fund, they tend to be buying something in return. It can be viewed as access, or less altruistically as results. They are unlikely to keep pouring money into the hooker fund unless they are getting something for their money. The result would tend to be a corruption of some process or other.
Vic is a hardcore Catholic. They are always more sympathetic to monarchy, the very lifeblood of nepotism vs. meritocracy. Part and parcel of Catholic dogma over the centuries. The only surprise would be if he wasn't. And, yes, if he could advance his daughter's prospects by underhanded behavior or influence peddling, he would do it in a heartbeat and have no qualms about it. You might as well act shocked that your dog gobbled up a piece of steak that fell on the floor during a meal. They might feign some guilt but they don't feel any in that circumstance.
No reason to drag Catholicism into the mix. I just think it's natural for family to love family, and the grouse - for example - that "Trump got all of his money from his daddy!", as if that delegitimizes him, delegitimizes the commentator who raises the point, as far as I am concerned. So what? That's what family is SUPPOSED to do: take care of their own, pass the knowledge, experience and wealth down through the ages. Support each generation so they get further. The people who kick their kids out at 18 and tell them they are on their own are the real cocksuckers, as far as I am concerned. Anything they build will die with them, and their children will start adulthood at a crippling disadvantage. Would I resort to DISHONEST methods to advance my daughter in her sport? Say, poisoning the opponents? Of course not. And that's not "Catholic" either. I want her to win on her own merits. But I will certainly, and do certainly, use my money to make sure she gets the best training, has the best equipment, and gets to travel to all of the important tournaments. Others of lesser means cannot necessarily do that. I don't look down on them, but I'm not going to hold back on what I can do for mine just because somebody else cannot do the same. And I think that any normal right-thinking person does the same. Which is WHY I think that broad social welfare needs to be done through government policies. It is not natural to give away enough of what we have to actually make a difference and pull everybody up out of poverty. We want to help, and will, but not to the extent that it cuts into what we want to do for ourselves and our own children. It works against our proper instincts. Having the state do it moves the burden off of individuals, who simply won't do enough, and put it in the hands of a structure that can extract what is necessary from an unwilling population to make sure that the bottom are not left in abject wretchedness. I don't support socialism, because that takes TOO MUCH, seeks to pull the top down and the bottom up, so they are equal in resources. That is intolerable (not the dream of equality, but the forcible creation of it). No. It is well that those at the bottom be lifted out of MISERY and placed in a position where they have adequate (not luxurious) housing, adequate heating, adequate health care, healthful food, and where their children have good educations, so they can rise out of the poverty by their own efforts, being properly equipped. That's expensive, but proper. BEYOND that, where the Communists and Socialists want to go, is NOT proper. Beyond that, I want the remaining of my resources for myself, MY family, MY causes (or lack thereof). My Catholicism means that I cannot be so selfish that I ignore the plight of the bottom, and want ADEQUATE coverage of them, and GOOD education for their children. But it stops there. After that, God gave ME a family to look after, and that's MY job. Accumulating resources to have independence at the end of career, and so that my daughter can enjoy greater independence and opportunity early: this is normal and right - what ELSE are we supposed to be doing with our talents. Breaking the opponents' knees, a la Tonya Harding? No. That's wrong. Nepotism - favoring one's own - is giving a leg up, it's not breaking somebody else's knees. That's why I don't mind it. Of course, if a child or a colleague is a wastrel, one does not press that person upward to fail. One recalibrates. Most people aren't wastels, and most jobs are such that it hardly matters who is in it. Why, then, not my own? I suppose there are people who really believe it's a virtue to treat family the same as everybody else, and who toss their kids out at age 18 and tell them they are on their own. And people like that praise each other, I guess. If it's "Catholic" to not be like that, then it's one more example where Catholicism is a good thing. And no, I have no problem with the royal families of the world. To stay royal, they have to please their people, and they do tend to hold their countries together.
Vic you said you supported a global welfare system where we give our tax dollars to foreigners. You said that and were quite dogmatic about it. That is what commie socialists think.
I think that we are all cousins, literally blood relatives, through Adam and Eve, and Noah and Na'amah. As such we have a certain responsibility to every human being on earth, that they not live in misery, squalor and die young for preventable reasons. My comments above, about adequate (not luxurious) housing, health care, nutritious food and a decent education for children (so they can rise and be productive) is a human minimum that humanity owes to all of its members, irrespective of their ability, or the ability of their parents, to pay. Where they can't pay, at the moment, it needs to be extended as welfare, with the education such that they can find work in whatever field and eventually pay it forward. If you want to call that Socialism, or Communism, or whatever, you can. I call it "Christianity", because it's what Christ demanded of us: feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the sick - that's full on Jesus, and everybody who is a Christian knows that already. There is certainly more than enough money in the world to do THAT, and still have a vibrant capitalist economy - indeed a MORE vibrant one, because of all of the new construction, education, and jobs. The poorest parts of the world lack sufficient wealth to get this done, so the wealthier parts of the world need to fund it, yes. As before, I do not speak of people living in luxury. One must be rich to do that. I speak only of the basic needs of all mankind. Jesus commanded us to look to those. I agree with him, and I find it puzzling when self- described "Christians" don't.
I speak only of the basic needs of all mankind. Jesus commanded us to look to those. I agree with him, and I find it puzzling when self- described "Christians" don't. Christ commanded the church, the local church, to feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the sick. Not a global welfare system of any kind. A global system, such as the one the Pope is calling for, is an attempt to reunite the world against God, after He scattered the people and confused their language at the Tower of Babel. Jesus said: "The poor you will always have with you..." Part of what God is telling us here is that, because of the rebellion of man against God, there will always be poverty. There will always be multitudes of humanity who cannot be 'given' anything, because they will use what you give them to further distance themselves from God. Try giving a poverty stricken drunk some money, clothing, a car, a house...he'll just trade it for a bottle. But the local church can and does create shelters where such a man can come when he's ready. Here's a Christian work in Newark, NJ This mission would be a disaster if operated by a global (or even a local) government.
There are nowhere near enough shelters to house everyone, and there is not enough private charity to feed everyone who needs it, and the Churches don't heal the sick at all - that's a massively expensive undertaking. So no, Church is not good enough. It's not enough, and it never has been.
My wife was a medical missionary (Zambia) before we married. There are thousands of Christian medical staff all over the world, overseen by the local churches through sending ministries. Surgery, dentistry, general medicine, the whole nine. Even so, yes, it's not enough. But what has the WHO really done. Or any other alphabet org. How could any existing global organization lift every one up to, say, the American standard of living? Take a look at Rhodesia, where the government took fully developed farms! away from one group of people and gave them to another...mass starvation. Now imagine that globally. But guess who's going to give it a shot...the ole anti-christ hisself is going to do it, with the world believing that he is god. So when you say global welfare you are singing his tune. You may not have to wait too long to see him promise the world that he'll lift everyone up to heaven-on-earth status.
And Vic will be right there, lecturing all of us about how deficient and horrible we are and how that nice Antichrist guy gets a bad rap. We'll hear the same crap from the False Prophet, either Pope Frank or one of his successors.
Here's how global welfare works out in reality...consider the aftermath of the earthquake in Haiti. From Wiki Oddly enough, after 10 years!, the people are still living in tents. Missionaries are reporting that the situation is dire. The mainstream news confirms... Wonder where the $54 million went? Chlesea again? These two molech worshipers represent the very best of a global welfare system. Nepotism? Hell yeah, funnel some money to the Bush kids, too.
No way! Vic will recognize that AC guy, thanks to me lecturing HIM right here on this forum :-)
I don't doubt your ability to convince him. I doubt your ability to persuade him not to support that kind poor-lovin' Antichrist handing out goodies left and right. Recall that scripture says plainly that the vast majority of the church(es) will fall away and follow the Antichrist willingly and they will aid the Antichrist's government in persecuting the Remainder.
I doubt your ability to persuade him not to support that kind poor-lovin' Antichrist handing out goodies left and right. Recall that scripture says plainly that the vast majority of the church(es) will fall away and follow the Antichrist willingly and they will aid the Antichrist's government in persecuting the Remainder. Well, TC, only the Holy Spirit can reach Vic, or any of us, for that matter. My ability to persuade has faded with time, and certainly in written form, as anyone can see by my attempts at posting... I am not a writer but a speaker and neither if you consult my harshest critic (my wife). The church is indeed fallen away (primarily through the spiritual condition of Laodicea). We Christians are aiding the rise of the AC by not loving the true. We have convinced ourselves that we are rich, and have need of nothing. It's quite evident. The false believers will certainly be lost but the true Christians WILL wake up (probably too late, but they will wake up).
Jeez Louise. May as well call me "Lucifer's little helper". Go Trump.
Bookmark for the next time you decide to make an unrequested change to someone's handle here at LF...
Maybe. The impression I get is that Christians will wake up one day, see an Antichrist dictator on TV, and mention it at church and discover that 90% of their "brethren" are ready to turn them in to the new world government as subversives. The true Christians won't be suddenly surprised by the Antichrist. They will be the only ones who see him coming a mile away. The False Prophet is the tipoff that the Antichrist is near. It parallels how John the Baptist foreshadowed the appearance of Christ. Scripture indicates that the Remnant will be an extremely small portion of those who claim to be Christian. Like 1% or less. People never really believe that that "strait is the gate and narrow...the way" stuff applies to them.
But think about it, doesn't everybody know and expect the Antichrist? How many movies have been made about him...dozens. That can mean only one thing...the entire world will recognize the Antichrist. The awful part is...they are going to convince themselves that accepting him will be okay.
The big tipoff will be the events of Ezekiel 38. A confederation of nations north of Israel (entitled Gog and Magog) will be drawn down to make war with Israel. God will supernaturally destroy the armies, but the heretofore unrecognized Beast (as he is actually called in the Bible) will broker a peace agreement between Israel and all her enemies. This will give the AC the street creds to begin his reign (of ever increasing terror). I hope and pray my family and friends are somewhere else by then.
So you think all they want is "access"? Just to hang out with them at parties and such?
The true Christians won't be suddenly surprised by the Antichrist. They will be the only ones who see him coming a mile away. The False Prophet is the tipoff that the Antichrist is near. It parallels how John the Baptist foreshadowed the appearance of Christ. Scripture indicates that the Remnant will be an extremely small portion of those who claim to be Christian. Like 1% or less. People never really believe that that "strait is the gate and narrow...the way" stuff applies to them. You really see this all the literal script of a movie to come. You're absolutely certain of that things will be just exactly that way, because that is what you really see in those pages. It is very difficult to wrap one's head around that, that you folks are really not posturing, you're really not speaking in metaphors or coded language to each other - that you literally think this is the script of the future. Of course it's very hard to communicate across this gap. What makes it harder is that you're similarly absolutely certain that even those of us who try to are "of the world", and thralls of the anti-Christ, and you speak to us with such condescension and hostility...hostility that you folks call "love" (completely flipping the meaning of that word from anything recognizable). Of course this "love" provokes an equally, or more, sarcastic reaction, and the enmity builds between "the world" and you folks - and you wouldn't have it any other way. I've always tried hard to keep a bridge across that gulf, but I do have to ask myself why I do it. I do not believe pretty much anything you believe. I read the same book (well, yours is an abridged version, but the abridgements barely matter), and I come away with a completely different point of view (which you folks will ascribe to being "lost" and to the Devil). Politically, the hardening of the positions has gotten more acute over the years. I remember how vilified I was by you "Christians" over my strong support for Trump back in the primaries. I remember being told how immoral he was, and how, therefore, immoral and un-Christian I was for supporting him. I listen very carefully to you folks when you talk, and I remember what you've said over the years. And when I look at it as a tableau, what I see is a remarkably inconsistent and utterly self-serving pattern of flip- flops and changes of heart, compared to which I look at myself and see somebody who has been as constant as the sun about the things that are right and true. There is not much in common between Catholics and you guys, not really. And what little there is arises practically by accident. I guess what we do have in common is that we're both certain that we're the genuine People of God, that we have it right, and that God is with us. Nothing you've said to me on this and other threads has ever done anything more than deepen that certitude. The level of vituperation that comes out of you "Christians", the legalism that amounts to nullification of the social responsibility of Christians to do anything more than they personally feel like doing - none of it sounds to me remotely like Christ. So I think I'll just leave it at that. Your beliefs are a well-developed script, that's how you see it, nothing on the earth or in the heavens is going to change your mind, and you don't want us "people of the world" mingled with you, because we might lead you astray. For my part, I simply don't like being talked to the way you folks always talk to me, with this supercilious air as though you know something I don't know, have read something I haven't read. I've read the same book, and honestly, you sound like cartoon villains. I'm taking my leave of Liberty's Flame again for awhile. Even the other Catholic here, Anthem (I think he's Catholic), was raging at me in full asshole mode the other day. What's the point of listening to this? The world goes on. Bye for now.
And you don't recognize that you are exactly the same? LOL. And, as usual, your notions of Christianity amount to a big welfare state. Jesus and the disciples somehow never mentioned that Big Gooberment and a welfare state was the road to salvation. You're just rehashing the usual arguments of Rome for a social welfare state. Paying for welfare by thee but not for me. So, you're going to run away and pout for a while. Nothing new. It's been done to death really. A better question is what is the point of constantly trying to sell discredited and failed Catholic social gospel ideas to Prots. But you never consider that, despite many years of bitter frustration in your ongoing attempts to do exactly that. Until next time. You almost had me convinced until you decided to run away again.
Believe it or not, I did 8 years of Catholic grade school back during Vatican II and was even an altar boy doing the Latin Mass... Fallen away now for a variety of reasons, but it still rubs me the wrong way when someone launches into their "The Pope is the AntiChrist" bullshit... So just to let you know, you & Anthem aren't the only Catholics around here... (even if I only qualify as a former Catholic, those nuns made sure I was never gonna convert to something else. LOL)
I too am a Roman Catholic. The difference between myself and V is perhaps that I am Sedevacantist.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
Rome sits on 7 mountains as I understand it. The Roman church is blasphemous in their worship of sinner Mary the non virgin. The pope is a false teacher and is probably the false prophet. 1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. The Mystery Explained 7And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. The Victory of the Lamb 14These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Catholics don't worship Mary... They only worship God... However, as the Mother of Christ, Mary does merit special status of honor & respect within Catholic doctrine... So if you really want to risk eternal hellfire & damnation by being so disrespectful of Christ's Mother, that's your problem, not mine... I already knew years ago that it was pointless to try to convert you.... Especially when I have my own reasons for no longer believing in these ancient myths & fairy tales.
They pray to Mary. prayer /prer/ Learn to pronounce noun a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship. So is she a God or an object of worship?
How is telling the truth being disrespectful. It is a fact that she is a sinner, we all are. It is a fact that she had other kids. Making her a non virgin. I'm not saying that she wasn't a good person. I'm just saying she isn't someone you are supposed to pray to. She was a person.
She's an intermediary... They know she's already in heaven, so they're just asking her to put in a good word with God for them.... They figure since she's Christ's Mom, she must have some kind of influence in these matters... But they still aren't actually worshipping her.
Wrong again... It doesn't matter how she conceived any other kids she may have had... Are you trying to tell us that Joseph was actually Christ's biological daddy?
She is dead. She can't hear shit. The resurrection takes place in the future when Christ returns according to the Bible. There is not one single bible verse that says to pray to a dead sinner. Not one verse about an intermediary to pray to. Anyone who thinks dead Mary hears their prayers is a stupid person. They are also a person who doesn't believe the Bible because as I pointed out she is dead and there has been no resurrection as yet. They add to scripture and pervert the word of God. Idiots. She's dead Jim.
No you are wrong again. They are talking in present tense. She is the former virgin Mary mother of the Christ. But she isn't a virgin anymore. She can't hear you because she is dead. And she is a sinner she said so in scripture. You don't believe the Bible is what is sounds like to me. Which is your choice to not believe the truth. Evil people and dummies do it all the time.
Nope that would be a dumb position. Christ was born of a virgin. Mary was a virgin when Christ was born according to scripture. I believe that to be the case. Mary had an important role. She just isn't someone you are supposed to pray to. Because she is dead and not risen.
So what's that in Heaven with all the angels? Her cold, stiff, worm-eaten corpse? Don't you believe that people have souls/spirits? They don't need a pile of rotting flesh to know what's going on down here on Earth.
Don't you believe that people have souls/spirits? They don't need a pile of rotting flesh to know what's going on down here on Earth. The resurrection has not happened yet. Or has it?
Trying to talk to the dead is an occult practice and a sin. Leviticus 19:31 ESV / 89 helpful votes “Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God. Isaiah 8:19 ESV / 54 helpful votes And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living? Deuteronomy 18:9-14 ESV / 50 helpful votes “When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before the Lord your God, ... Leviticus 20:6 ESV / 48 helpful votes “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people. 1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 45 helpful votes Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, Ecclesiastes 9:5 ESV / 45 helpful votes For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 2 Corinthians 11:14 ESV / 33 helpful votes And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Psalm 146:4 ESV / 28 helpful votes When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish. Psalm 115:17 ESV / 26 helpful votes The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence. 1 John 4:1 ESV / 22 helpful votes Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. Deuteronomy 18:10 ESV / 18 helpful votes There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer Hebrews 9:27 ESV / 17 helpful votes And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, Revelation 16:14 ESV / 16 helpful votes For they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty. Revelation 21:8 ESV / 15 helpful votes But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” James 2:19 ESV / 15 helpful votes You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! Isaiah 8:20 ESV / 14 helpful votes To the teaching and to the testimony! If they will not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn. 1 John 4:1-3 ESV / 12 helpful votes Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Romans 10:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. John 3:16 ESV / 12 helpful votes “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:18 ESV / 11 helpful votes Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. Exodus 22:18 ESV / 11 helpful votes “You shall not permit a sorceress to live. John 11:11-14 ESV / 10 helpful votes After saying these things, he said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him.” The disciples said to him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that he meant taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus has died, Deuteronomy 18:11-12 ESV / 10 helpful votes Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you. Ephesians 2:9 ESV / 9 helpful votes Not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Matthew 22:32 ESV / 9 helpful votes ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” 1 Timothy 2:5 ESV / 8 helpful votes For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, Acts 10:43 ESV / 8 helpful votes To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” John 6:44 ESV / 8 helpful votes No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. Deuteronomy 18:11 ESV / 8 helpful votes Or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, Hebrews 5:14 ESV / 7 helpful votes But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. Ephesians 4:30 ESV / 7 helpful votes And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Acts 17:11 ESV / 7 helpful votes Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Malachi 4:3 ESV / 7 helpful votes And you shall tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet, on the day when I act, says the Lord of hosts. Luke 1:37 ESV / 6 helpful votes For nothing will be impossible with God.” Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 ESV / 6 helpful votes For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. Revelation 1:1-20 ESV / 5 helpful votes The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood ... Romans 6:23 ESV / 5 helpful votes For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. 1 Chronicles 10:13-14 ESV / 5 helpful votes So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the Lord in that he did not keep the command of the Lord, and also consulted a medium, seeking guidance. He did not seek guidance from the Lord. Therefore the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David the son of Jesse. Leviticus 20:27 ESV / 5 helpful votes “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:26-27 ESV / 5 helpful votes You shall be holy to me, for I the Lord am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine. “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.” Revelation 21:4 ESV / 4 helpful votes He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” John 6:40 ESV / 4 helpful votes For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 5:28-29 ESV / 4 helpful votes Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. Luke 16:19-31 ESV / 4 helpful votes “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. ... Matthew 28:20 ESV / 4 helpful votes Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matthew 24:24 ESV / 4 helpful votes For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. Ecclesiastes 12:7 ESV / 4 helpful votes And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. Exodus 13:9 ESV / 4 helpful votes And it shall be to you as a sign on your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that the law of the Lord may be in your mouth. For with a strong hand the Lord has brought you out of Egypt. 1 Peter 5:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Peter 3:18-19 ESV / 3 helpful votes For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, James 2:26 ESV / 3 helpful votes For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 ESV / 3 helpful votes So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord. Romans 14:8 ESV / 3 helpful votes For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord's. John 14:6 ESV / 3 helpful votes Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Luke 23:43 ESV / 3 helpful votes And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” Matthew 10:28 ESV / 3 helpful votes And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Daniel 2:2 ESV / 3 helpful votes Then the king commanded that the magicians, the enchanters, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans be summoned to tell the king his dreams. So they came in and stood before the king. Psalm 23:4 ESV / 3 helpful votes Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me. Psalm 6:5 ESV / 3 helpful votes For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise? 1 Samuel 28:1-25 ESV / 3 helpful votes In those days the Philistines gathered their forces for war, to fight against Israel. And Achish said to David, “Understand that you and your men are to go out with me in the army.” David said to Achish, “Very well, you shall know what your servant can do.” And Achish said to David, “Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life.” Now Samuel had died, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in Ramah, his own city. And Saul had put the mediums and the necromancers out of the land. The Philistines assembled and came and encamped at Shunem. And Saul gathered all Israel, and they encamped at Gilboa. When Saul saw the army of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart trembled greatly. ... Revelation 22:12 ESV / 2 helpful votes “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done. Revelation 20:14 ESV / 2 helpful votes Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. Revelation 20:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Revelation 13:13-14 ESV / 2 helpful votes It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived. Revelation 12:9 ESV / 2 helpful votes And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 1 John 3:8-10 ESV / 2 helpful votes Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. 1 Timothy 6:15-16 ESV / 2 helpful votes Which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. 2 Thessalonians 2:9 ESV / 2 helpful votes The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 ESV / 2 helpful votes For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Colossians 3:1-25 ESV / 2 helpful votes If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. ... Colossians 2:1-23 ESV / 2 helpful votes For I want you to know how great a struggle I have for you and for those at Laodicea and for all who have not seen me face to face, that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, to reach all the riches of full assurance of understanding and the knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible arguments. For though I am absent in body, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ. ... Colossians 1:1-29 ESV / 2 helpful votes Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colossae: Grace to you and peace from God our Father. We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love that you have for all the saints, because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, ... Philippians 1:21 ESV / 2 helpful votes For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Ephesians 4:27 ESV / 2 helpful votes And give no opportunity to the devil. Galatians 6:7 ESV / 2 helpful votes Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. Galatians 5:19-21 ESV / 2 helpful votes Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 15:51 ESV / 2 helpful votes Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:22 ESV / 2 helpful votes For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 10:20-21 ESV / 2 helpful votes No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Romans 12:2 ESV / 2 helpful votes Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Romans 8:38-39 ESV / 2 helpful votes For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:18 ESV / 2 helpful votes For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. Romans 8:10 ESV / 2 helpful votes But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. Romans 5:8 ESV / 2 helpful votes But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Acts 9:37 ESV / 2 helpful votes In those days she became ill and died, and when they had washed her, they laid her in an upper room. Acts 8:2 ESV / 2 helpful votes Devout men buried Stephen and made great lamentation over him. Acts 2:34 ESV / 2 helpful votes For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, “‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, Acts 2:29 ESV / 2 helpful votes “Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. John 20:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 14:27 ESV / 2 helpful votes Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. John 14:26 ESV / 2 helpful votes But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. John 14:3 ESV / 2 helpful votes And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. John 13:7 ESV / 2 helpful votes Jesus answered him, “What I am doing you do not understand now, but afterward you will understand.” John 11:26 ESV / 2 helpful votes And everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:25-26 ESV / 2 helpful votes Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?” John 11:1-57 ESV / 2 helpful votes Now a certain man was ill, Lazarus of Bethany, the village of Mary and her sister Martha. It was Mary who anointed the Lord with ointment and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was ill. So the sisters sent to him, saying, “Lord, he whom you love is ill.” But when Jesus heard it he said, “This illness does not lead to death. It is for the glory of God, so that the Son of God may be glorified through it.” Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. ... John 10:10 ESV / 2 helpful votes The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. John 3:16-17 ESV / 2 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. John 1:12 ESV / 2 helpful votes But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, Suggest a Verse
Ancient myths & fairy tales, just like I told you earlier... It doesn't matter to me whether it's your version, the Catholic version, the Mormon version, the Hebrew version, the Muslim version, the Zoroastrian version, L. Ron Hubbard's Sci-Fi version, or the Buddhists, Shintos, Norse/Vikings or whatever other mythology you mental midgets want to go to war over because you want to claim that your God is better than your neighbor's God... Fuck all that stupid bullshit... But since I was raised Catholic, I thought I'd explain to you what Catholics actually believe instead of whatever it was you learned in that anti-Catholic Echo Chamber you live in... But if you're spiritually fulfilled by all that mumbo-jumbo, then your not the only pinhead that I'll never convince before I croak... So it's just not worth my time to even try... You're a big boy.... Make up your own goddam mind instead of swallowing what someone else spoon-feeds you hook, line & sinker...
So what do you think the Easter Bunny is all about? Just another excuse to sell chocolate?
We all get to choose to believe in God or not. I guess you made your choice to be an atheist. Your position is that Jesus was a liar. Ok got ya.
The easter bunny isn't biblical. Are you going bring up the tooth fairy next?
Second verse, same as the first... The Church of England is built on a pile of bullshit too.. What kind of so-called "Christian" lops off his wifes head & starts his own church just because his first child wasn't a boy? Shit... You all can countinue to argue about that for another 500 years and kill tens of thousand more people over that stupid bullshit...
Nope.... I wasn't around back then so I don't even know if he was actually a real person or just some fictional character that Jews like to write about hoping that someone like him might actually show up some day and rescue them from the Romans... Every fairy tale has to get started somehow, I suppose.... And then the so-called "leaders" and "rulers" discovered that they can use those fairy tales to manipulate & control the vast majority of imbeciles who actually believe that crap...
So what makes ancient papyrus or clay tablets so magical that they can be the only source of "Truth?"
The only one manipulated is you. You were manipulated to believe evolution. Then you apparently lost your faith and got o the highway to hell. There is still an off ramp if you swallow your pride repent and seek the truth. I shall pray for you. Wise up aaWillie there is no evolution.
No contradictions perfect truth.
Well that's what makes me smarter than a monkey, so I'm OK with that... Sorry you haven't gotten quite that far along just yet...
Oh your one of those people who fuck monkeys. You're a stupid person Willie. Maybe you will wise up. Probably not. You seem to prefer evil people over good ones and hell over heaven. I'll pray you repent.
Thanks, Willie.
Good morning Count.
No problem... I hope you didn't find my irreverent perspective to be too disrespectful... I try not to be militant about my beliefs because I recognize that there are still many, many honest, good-willed people who still practice my former religion.... and they have the fundamental human right to figure out things for themselves...
Good evening.
Don’t worry about irreverence with me. In my men’s group at Church they have nicknamed me “Lucifer” because of the countrrpoints I always raise. Irreverence amuses me. Personal insult annoys me. It’s so unnecessary.
If Mary is any sort of spiritual intermediary, then Paul was a liar when he wrote his first letter to Timothy:
Interesting. It does raise a lot of interesting questions about religion to take the Sedevecantist position. I can barely imagine what you think about Pope Frank and his colorful opinions (when he isn't busy slapping women away if they dare to touch his sleeve). LOL. I notice that Pope Frank is now telling Catholic youth that it is a profound error to convert non-Christians to Catholicism. Well, finally something us Prots can agree with. : ) And, finally, in honor of the latest stupid Star Wars movie, here's a bit from the same satirists on C3PO crash-landing into a Pentecostal church. [redleghunter loves these Lutheran satires as much as I do.]
Does Mary hear every prayer from every person on earth in every language?
I'm afraid not. You see, she's dead.
Paul doesn't have the final word. God sent Mary repeatedly to earth - the only person he has seny back since Jesus ascended. He sent her to Guadelupe, and thereby rapidly effected the conversion of the Mesoamerican and Latin American Indians to the faith of Jesus. He sent her to Lourdes, and the healing miracles still proliferate. Your great theological error is to close off God's interactions with man with the end of the Bible. He has continued to do so, with miracle and with visitations. The public visitations, the person sent from Heaven for these things, is Mary. Over and over. So yeah, the Catholics are right about this. You're like a Jew resisting Jesus. God manifestly does something new, it's not in your book, so you deny it. Some of your ilk even ascribe the actions of God to Satan. Jesus warned against doing that.
She's dead? Those who have fallen asleep in the Lord are dead? 'Fraid not. Jesus, call your office!
Not true. You are making shit up again like you do with dead lizards. What verse is that? Oh it isn't in the Bible. Did a pedophile Pope tell that?
Your great theological error is to close off God's interactions with man with the end of the Bible. He has continued to do so, with miracle and with visitations. The public visitations, the person sent from Heaven for these things, is Mary. Over and over. So yeah, the Catholics are right about this. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. You are a deceived idiot. It seems TC is right you will embrace the beast.
Does Mary hear every prayer from everyone on earth in every language? Is she the queen of heaven? When you said exterminate the Iranians. When you said exterminate the rightwingers. I thought. By their fruit ye shall know them. This verse also came to mind. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. You are pegged. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. The abundence of you heart said kill all right wingers. That sounds like something satan would say. You also said it about other people like the Iranians. And more I believe.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: Has judgement day come? Oh and there is this Mr Denier of Gods word. The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN...that they may provoke me to anger. Jeremiah 7:18
No you are not right about this and neither are the idiot Catholics. You pray to her not God. The Mary you pray of is not the Mary of the Bible. For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5
And he said unto them, Full well ye REJECT the commandment of God, that ye may KEEP your own tradition. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Mark 7:9, 13
"something in your book" It isn't your book is it. You don't believe it. You think it is full of errors. You think God is to weak to preserve his word that he can't do that. Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; That includes the pope--he is a man. If his word contradicts the word of God, then he is lying according to the Bible.
Everything that happened during and after Vatican II, including the popes during that dark time is invalid.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
Neither is there salvation in ANY other: for there is NONE other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
This is in my book. They way you said that it was like an insult. Like it isn't your book. Jesus said, "They that worship the Father must worship him in spirit and in TRUTH." We have to worship God according to the truth. God will not accept worship based on a lie.
5 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying, 16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. 17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. 18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. 19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men? 20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying, 21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and came it not into his mind? 22 So that the Lord could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day. 23 Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the Lord, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day. 24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the Lord, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt: 25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. 26 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the Lord, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord God liveth. 27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them. 28 Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah, and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall know whose words shall stand, mine, or their's. 29 And this shall be a sign unto you, saith the Lord, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil: 30 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will give Pharaohhophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies, and into the hand of them that seek his life; as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, his enemy, and that sought his life.
You're right, it's not in the Bible, because these things happened over a thousand years after the Bible was written. Jesus' advent, the way he did it, is not in the Jewish Bible either - that was their complaint - that the Messiah was supposed to liberate them, be a warrior king in the mode of David, and they had all their Biblical passages lined up to prove it. But then Jesus came as he did, and did what he did, and they were baffled, and disappointed, so they REJECTED him - HE can't be true, because he's not what we expected, it isn't written that way - not openly. God sent Mary, and mass conversion followed. God sent Mary, and healings follow, in abundance, clear open miracles. No, it's not in the Bible. SO WHAT? God never said that he was going to stop interacting with men once the last Apostle died. That's the doctrine of idolators who have denied God the power of miracle, and of sending prophesy, and of sending Mary, etc., BECAUSE they want to limit everything to one book. Just exactly like the Jews did before. Same error. Same result.
Mary has never said "I am the Christ." It's always perfectly obvious she is Christ's mother, calling people to her son. No Catholic leader has said "I am the Christ". There's no Christ but Christ.
A K A Stone, you like the judge Catholicism by judging me and my faults. If we judge Protestantism by your behavior, the religion is a foul disgrace.
No Catholic leader has said "I am the Christ". There's no Christ but Christ. You deny Christs book. You are saying your pope and his cult is the new christ.
If we judge Protestantism by your behavior, the religion is a foul disgrace. Not true. You're not a real Catholic. You have adopted some of their practices into you personal I know God cult. Now go ahead and address every point I made. I made several excellent points. For example if Mary hears all prayers in every language? Or about Jesus being the only to go to to get to God. Not babylonian queen of heaven cult satanic bullshit lies.
What about praying to Mary in violatoin of scripture. That was before Vatican II. The Catholics have been perverting scripture for centuries before Vatican II.
You wont because you are stumped and looking quite dumb.
What do you think "pray to" means? Hint: it doesn't mean "worship". It means "ask". Catholics ask Mary to pray FOR them. e.g.: "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death. Amen." Mary is asked to pray to God for us, just as we ask other people to pray for us. She is not dead.
Mark 7:9, 13 Yep. And you have a tradition that your book is the be all and end all of divine revelation. God never said that, and it is manifestly not true, considering the various revelations God has made SINCE then. But nope, you cling tight to your mere tradition that it's all in the book, and blind yourself to what God has done since, even calling it Satanic.
Mary was always a revered figure in the Catholic Church as well as other Christian denominations. She became recognized as a Saint in the Dark Ages and therefore close to God and Jesus. Believers aren't praying TO Mary, rather they come to her for solace.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
My book has 9 additional books in it that you people cut out of it fifteen hundred years after the fact, because they conflict with the theology that you want to believe. So yes, YOUR book. Even your book contains a lot of truth, but your pretensions that it contains all the truth and all revelation, forbidding God to reveal anything new or perform any public miracles (even though he HAS), is idolatry. It's repeating the error of the Jews.
See, you're doing it again. That passage in Acts is talking about Jesus. And here you go, pretending that your book IS Jesus. That is idolatry, pure and simple.
Could you please post the chapters in your book that we supposedly cut out? On a separate thread please. Vic I may come across as hating you. I don't. You have me curious how someone could believe what to me is nonsense. That is why I give you a hard time. When I talked about your fruit above. I pointed that out because it did come out of your mind. I've said similar stuff so I am not without fault.
Of course it is talking about Jesus. My point is you are going to Mary and praying to her who can't hear you because she is dead instead of to Jesus as instructed by Jesus Christ himself. You skipped a lot of hard questions. That means you have no answers for them and I am right. Like does Mary hear everyones prayers in every language all over the earth? Don't be a pussy answer the question. Yes so I can blast your response because there is no adequate response you area capable of giving.
For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5 You wuzzed out on this one too. Because it shows your position to be hollow bullshit.
Yes. And the truth is that revelation did not stop when the last words in the book were written, and God did not stop interacting with the world and sending emissaries. But you pretend that he did, and that everything is in the book. There's ENOUGH in the book, to be sure. It's a matter of following Jesus, who said to feed the poor, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, visit the prisoner, take care of the widowed and the orphan. But you twist the book to say that this is purely voluntary (it isn't) and that people getting together through the institutions they control (e.g. government)is contrary to God, which it isn't. Your religion fits the contours of your political beliefs - and where your political beliefs don't match what Jesus said, you don't see it at all and genuinely assert that your book says exactly what your politics believes. This is the great sin and obvious howling error of American political evangelism. By comparison, I recognize and freely admit that my bloodyminded militaristic urge to kill my enemies certainly stems from my upbringing, military training, and long military service. I recognize that it is not in accordance with Jesus, and that it is a struggle between my personality, and the expressed will of my God. It is something that I struggle with. You evince no struggle at all in squaring your book with your politics. The difference between you and me is that you call me out with loud braying every single place where my humanity shows through and I depart, in anger (or in lust) from what the Savior said was right. By contrast, I don't generally call you out in the same way, and if I were to, you would deny that there is any difference between what the Savior said and your political beliefs, even though the daylight shining through that gap is obvious to anybody who looks. Also, the fact that God has touched me with miracles and I am unashamed to speak about them seems to drive you nuts. It's a recurring theme that you mention them - not the broken neck healed - but the two little animals - you return to them over and over. You use these things as a point of ridicule, but I think they spook you. As in: why would God do that for that CATHOLIC who doesn't even properly believe in my BOOK, and not for me? That's what's going on in your head. But I let you beat on me with it over and over without saying anything in return. Until this morning.
She became recognized as a saint.... That is not the way it works. The saints are the christains. It is as simple as that. They are living. It is not something bestowed on you by popes who worship the pagan babylonian queen of heaven. Who is not Mary of the Bible mother of Jesus.
I agree with that. God still works in this world. Miracles still happen. People are healed. But it is also true that Mary is dead. Judgement didn't come yet so she is still dead. Enoch is the only one who didn't die and is still alive and will probably return some day if my reading comprehension is correct.
16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. 17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. 18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. 19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men? 20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying, 21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and came it not into his mind? 22 So that the Lord could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day. 23 Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the Lord, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day. 24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the Lord, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt: 25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows. 26 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the Lord, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord God liveth. 27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them. 28 Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah, and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall know whose words shall stand, mine, or their's. 29 And this shall be a sign unto you, saith the Lord, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil: 30 Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I will give Pharaohhophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies, and into the hand of them that seek his life; as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, his enemy, and that sought his life. Poor Judah, poor Egypt, poor Pharaohhophra. And what has this to do with thee and me?
It is voluntary in the sense that is is our personal responsibility to do those things. Not to have the government do those things in your individual place. How is letting the government give out welfare the same as what you said?
The book of Sirach, the book of Wisdom, the book of Judith, the book of Tobit, the books of 1 Maccabbees and 2 Maccabbees, about half of the book of Daniel - all present in the oldest complete Bible, all excised by Martin Luther and his ilk.
My religion came before I even thought about politics. My politics are based on what God taught in the Bible. So you have me pegged incorrectly.
If you post it in a separate thread I will read it or at least some of it as it is obviously long.
Christ never wrote anything. It's a book. I listen very carefully to Christ's words IN the portions of the book that contain them (which are, to be specific: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, the first two or three chapters of Acts, Revelation, and one single line in one of Paul's letters. I note the extent to which Christ spoke about taking care of the poor and sick. I then compare that to the politics espoused by Protestants such as yourself, and I wonder how you can think that way and claim Christ, just as you wonder how I can be so bloodyminded and militaristic and claim Christ. The difference is that I recognize that I am a sinner and have to fight both my bloodlust and my plain old lust for beautiful flesh. But you and yours actually believe yourselves to be right and godly when you oppose aid to the poor if it doesn't come through your churches. It's mind-bogglingly blind.
I don't know. And neither do you.
Like I said I only bring that up to say why should I believe someone who is saying things that are in the Bible are not true. Then saying things that are without scriptural basis and in fact in contradiction of scripture is Gods word. So I am like why should I believe this guy when the abundence of his heart seems to be murder me and others.
Mary is not dead. Neither are the Apostles, the saints and the rest of the dead. You are very much mistaken. They are alive, elsewhere, in Gan Eden/Paradise or Gehenna/Purgatory/"Hell".
Yes I know. Since it is appointed to man once to die then comes judgement. Since judgement day hasn't come yet Mary is still dead and can't hear shit. Also For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5 Notice not Mary. No where in the Bible does it say Mary is Holy. It never says to pray to her. It never says she has Gods power to hear all prayers in every language. But since you admit you don't know and she didn't speak english. Do you think she hears your prayers?
That is true according to you and it isn't in the Bible. Jesus never said a word about it. But Paul is a liar according to what you have said in the past.
He never said Purgatory. So you add to scripture like the Catholics.
I try to turn the other cheek and not bring up your over-the-top behavior, because judging your God by the way you behave, I wouldn't want anything to do with him or his religion. It's really easy to reject virtually any human being for human weakness. We are imperfect. Lord knows I am. I don't generally skewer you personally for your graceless behavior, because I think it's wrong to do so. But if I copy you, your vitriolic behavior renders Protestantism and angry religion of poop-flinging apes with very poor reading comprehension, who make no allowance for human weakness and oblivious to their own raging unChristian fury. There. How does that feel? It doesn't even feel like a slap to you, because you are oblivious to your offensive behavior, and actually think that it's "righteous wrath". Pharisees and idolators.
He did, over and over: Gehenna is Purgatory, but it's function. "Until the last penny is paid." Until means "not forever".
IF you said only that God healed your broken neck. I wouldn't challenge you even if I didn't completely believe you. I may even believe you. In my family before i met my wife when she was a kid. Her family tells me of how her sister had a severe medical condition. Her father prayed and gave up alcohol and became a preacher because they tell me she was healed and the tumor was completely gone never to return. I didn't witness that but I believe it. But when you go around talking about rats and lizards being raised from the dead. That is a bridge to far for me.
You and your ilk are the sorts who like to call people who are wrong about something "liars". I don't. Paul was not right about a great many things in his life. He was a fanatic and a murderer before he converted, then he was a fanatic for what he believed, and that's fine, but it caused him to state some things in ways that diverge from what Jesus said. Also, Paul, the Pharisee, was incredibly impressed, still, with the who Jewish apparatus, and continued to exalt it (and to insert features of it into Christianity), where Jesus did not do so. But this is not a discussion we can have. We cannot simultaneously discuss text from an academic viewpoint and fling poop at each other. That doesn't work. If you're going to fling poop, and I'm flinging it back you personally, for once, we're not going to bring in Scripture in a serious discussion.
Good conversation. My behavior is over the top sometimes. Sometimes I like to get reactions out of people by saying stuff. I should do better. But that doesn't excuse any of your denying Scripture and adding to it. Vic I just like the truth and I consider the Bible to be true. So when you go around saying Mary is alive and such nonsense. *It contradicts scriputure and I wonder why someone who says the believe in God is willing to say the Bible is full of truth and also lies. What you call God must be cruel not giving us a clear truth. Having to add to the word and subtract and change babylonian tradition about the queen of the earth into Mary of the Bible in order to convert people back then.
nope
Uh. You have quoted zero scripture. You have made excuses why scripture doesn't mean what it says. You make stuff up like purgatory and praying to Mary. Ok you didn't make it up personally but you believe the crap in contradiction to Gods word found in the Bible and only the Bible.
Factually wrong. Jesus came back to convert Saul to become the Apostle Paul on the road to Damascus. Paul went on to defeat Peter, the alleged first Roman pontiff, in a major theological battle over the conversion of Gentiles at the council of Jerusalem.
Those books were all rejected when the first canon was estabished. The first canon has never been challenged. It was only at the council of Trent that Roman Catholics decreed that those 9 additional books were official scripture. Despite this, even Rome does not elevate those extra 9 false books to the same status as that held by the books of the original NT canon. Because they know better. And so they are termed the Apocrypha.
Excised by the Council of Hippo and confirmed subsequently in the ancient NT canon. By the Roman Catholic church. It was only in 1546 at the Council of Trent that these dodgy books were again added to the Rome's official canon, though never granted equal status by Rome with the books of the original ancient canon.
Uh-huh. Paul, who was the only human converted by Jesus after his ascent to heaven, is considered by Count Vicula to be inferior in authority to Jesus' baby-mama, Mary who the Count claims has converted millions. Notice how the Count never gives Jesus even the slightest credit for converting any of those souls. It's all for the glory of the Queen of Heaven, Mary. Yet scripture never mentions her as having any spiritual authority whatsoever and Jesus merely assigned disciples to help care for her after His own death. Funny how that works.
You have shed light on what Vic posted. He didn't put those books in context like you did. I always enjoy your posts. Well almost always.
Nothing is 'simple' when it comes to religion! You're a big boy and you should know that.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
They had a dispute. He appears to have persuaded Peter of something. The text hardly gives a trial transcript.
She always came in the name of her son, and always called people to follow her son, and they did. You calumniate a messenger of God with your nonsense.
It was only in 1546 at the Council of Trent that these dodgy books were again added to the Rome's official canon, though never granted equal status by Rome with the books of the original ancient canon. Utterly false. Go back to school. Those books have been part of the Catholic Canon, East and West, since the first complete Bibles of the 300s. Local synods disagreed about this and that. The Orthodox and the Catholics both have proceeded forth with these books. Jerome protested some of them but he translated them nevertheless, because the Pope was firm on the matter.
Lie all you want. They were affirmed only by the Council of Trent and they were never included in the canon approved by the Council of Hippo. Stuff that in a dead mouse and smoke it. So what happened to your announced plan from two days ago to run away and pout for a while? You didn't carry through on your little threat.
A lot of Gentiles converted when they found out they didn't have to give up their foreskins like a Jew would have. Or follow Jewish dietary laws, etc. Probably those Christians with foreskins numbered in the millions over the centuries. We know what the dispute was. And Paul prevailed over Peter before the Council, very clearly. Which does throw into question how Peter could be the first Roman pontiff if Paul, who had never even met Jesus during his lifetime, could and did beat Peter like a rug, theologically speaking. And Paul was by far the greater missionary as well. Peter seems to have accomplished very little, perhaps the reason why Rome chose to depict him as their purported first pope. Peter himself never wrote epistles that indicated he knew anything about holding such a status or commission of leadership.
You'd worship her as the Queen of Heaven (and the Immaculate Queen of the Universe, as the sedevecantists do) if the Romans had just nailed one of her bloody tampons to a cross. Were it possible, the Mariolatrists would replace Jesus altogether. Certainly, they make little mention of Him at any time. It's all "Mary, Mary, quite contrary (to scripture)" with you lot.
These books (the Apocrypha), though valuable documents, were never in the Hebrew canon of Scripture. The Hebrews excluded the Apocrypha because these books contain errors.
Paul prevailed over Peter because Peter was in error. Peter was causing a division in the church because of his fear of displeasing the Judaizers. Paul rebuked Peter and corrected the whole lot of them...that we are saved by grace not by works of the Law. The conflict was short lived. By Acts 15:7 Peter affirms the gospel message. BTW Peter was never a stinking Pope...there is no such office listed in the Bible.
I think Paul had a very aggressive personality. That trait does come through in his writings and these other descriptions we have of him. He must have had a very powerful and charismatic effect on people. Anyway, that's how I read him from what the bible describes.
Yeah, all the apostles were a pretty rough bunch. Saul before he was Paul participated in stonings, you know, killing people with rocks. Peter, a fisherman, used a sword to hack an ear off a dude. James and John were known locally as the "Sons of Thunder" Even so, God tenderized them...and made them useful.
The Hebrews excluded those books at Jamnia, 90 years into the Christian era. They also insist that Isaiah does not speak of the son of a virgin, but the son of a young woman. If one wishes to hitch one's star to the Jews, in for a penny, in for a pound. Stop eating shrimp and bacon, and cut off the end of your dick.
That's novel. Keep it up, please. Keep heaping derision on Mary.
I want to urge you to keep saying evil things, to get so full of yourself and such a head of steam on you keep right on down that self-righteous road of yours, spewing nonsense and contempt at holy things.
You are suggesting that the Apocrypha was part of the Hebrew canon up until Jamnia, and then tossed out. That isn't the case at all.
Every time you elevate Mary, you diminish Jesus Himself. Can Jesus do anything without his baby-mama? Anything at all? Catholics elevate Mary to the point that she replaces the Father/Son/Spirit entirely in their minds. You know it's true.
The disputed books were not included in the original NT canon for sound reasons. The Maccabees were just a history of a series of recent wars for Jewish independence from Rome. A few others were dubious rehashes of Daniel. And so on. They were considered carefully and rejected as inferior at Hippo. The account of the Maccabees is interesting and sets the stage historically for the appearance of Christ and the rebellion that ended with the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70AD. But they had no greater spiritual merit than the history written by Josephus a little later after he went Benedict Arnold and threw in with the Roman conquerors. A history book is not a spiritual book. Such was the judgment of the council of Hippo and subsequent ratifications of Hippo's NT canon.
I know that’s completely untrue, pure falsehood produced by the distempered Protestant mind.
You ought to Google the Council of Hippo to see those books you say were rejected in fact confirmed by that council, which was, by the way, a regional synod, not an ecumenical Council. Please do continue to spout falsehood.
The account of the Maccabees... Errors in the Apocrypha...Money as an offering for the sins of the dead: From https://carm.org/catholic/errors-apocrypha Vic can buy you a stairway to heaven TC...but I have a feeling it is gonna cost way more than twelve thousand drachms of silver to save your sin blighted soul ;)
Vic isn't a follower of Christ. He is a follower of the Pope. If Vic always prays in Marys name God don't even hear his prayers. Vic is deceived and trying to deceive with his doctrine of demons. He is to educated to have common sense. In other words brainwashed.
She is dead and you even admitted that you don't even know if she hears your prayers. She is a dead sinner that practiced repentance. Here is another verse that shows you are not to worship sinners. Even Mary mother of Jesus. 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
No purgatory fool. It isn't in the Bible and this proves it scripturally. You are scriptureally challenged that is why you never quote it like Jesus did. You just worship some stupid Pope who covers up fore pedophiles. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
It is false teaching and a lie that Jesus said the Church was to be based on Peter. Do you understand that Count? 24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest. 25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. 26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. 27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
Yes it is simple if you just ignore all the lies taught in Catholic "Church". A saint is a Christian. A saint isn't a saint because some poop stained Pope says so. 1 Corinthians 1:2 King James Version 2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
Don't worship the Pope and don't pray to the fake Mary. 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
It's not Mary you fools. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
The Catholic Cult changed Gods plan for Bishops too. 1 Timothy 3:2 King James Version 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Since they changed it unmarried faggots are running rampant in the church molesting thousands of kids. Come out of the whore church,
Hey Count. You should actually read the Bible and believe it instead of lying to us here about the word of God. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
The Catholics lie and disobey God by prohibiting marriage. Why would anyone be so stupid after all these things the fake church Catholics does. 1 Timothy 4:3-4 King James Version 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
Vic is a good guy, a caring person who would give you his coat and his shirt too. This is a fact. And yet, if he believes all the Catholic nonsense he posts here, then yes, he is deceived. The Catholic religion is a powerful force in the minds of those who are caught up in it. The Catholics can no more free themselves from their beliefs than the Jehovah's Witnesses can. (ever try to win a JW to Christ?) Looking in on Catholic comment sections, you find the Catholics will recognize that the Pope is false...but they turn right around and encourage one another to pray to Mary for deliverance. Heartbreaking.
Those are not errors. Those are words that demonstrate the belief in the efficacity of prayers for the dead. Your later, bogus and quite bloody-handed traditions ripped those pages out of the Bible precisely BECAUSE they conflicted with your 16th-century theories of the way things ought to be. But you're never going to be persuaded by anything, and trying to do so is a fool's errand.
It is in the Bible. Gehenna is purgatory. This is what JEWS of Jesus' day thought Gehenna was - and when he used that word, he was speaking to them, not you with your closed and historically ignorant and malicious Protestant mind: Source: "What is Gehenna: Jewish views of the Afterlife" "In rabbinic texts Gehenna played an important role as a place where unrighteous souls were punished. The rabbis believed that anyone who did not live in accordance with the ways of God and Torah would spend time Gehenna. According to the rabbis some of the transgressions that would merit a visit to Gehenna included idolatry (Taanit 5a), incest (Erubin 19a), adultery (Sotah 4b), pride (Avodah Zarah 18b), anger and losing one's temper (Nedarim 22a). Of course, they also believed that anyone who spoke ill of a rabbinic scholar would merit time in Gehenna (Berakhot 19a)." "In order to avoid a visit to Gehenna the rabbis recommended that people occupy themselves "with good deeds" (Midrash on Proverbs 17:1). "He who has Torah, good deeds, humility and fear of heaven will be saved from punishment in Gehenna," says Pesikta Rabbati 50:1. In this way the concept of Gehenna was used to encourage people to live good, ethical lives and to study Torah. In the case of transgression, the rabbis prescribed teshuvah (repentance) as the remedy. Indeed, the rabbis taught that a person could repent even at the very gates of Gehenna (Erubin 19a)." "For the most part the rabbis did not believe souls would be condemned to eternal punishment. "The punishment of the wicked in Gehenna is twelve months," states Shabbat 33b, while other texts say the time-frame could be anywhere from three to twelve months. Yet there were transgressions that the rabbis felt did merit eternal damnation. These included: heresy, publicly shaming someone, committing adultery with a married woman and rejecting the words of the Torah. However, because the rabbis also believed that one could repent at any time, the belief in eternal damnation was not a predominant one." Gehenna is Purgatory, not eternal Hell.
1 Timothy 3:2 King James Version 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Since they changed it unmarried faggots are running rampant in the church molesting thousands of kids. Come out of the whore church, What Jesus said: "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” The Latin Church decided to take this literally and make celibacy a disciple of the Latin Clergy, and this was generally practiced from the 400s onward.
The Catholics can no more free themselves from their beliefs than the Jehovah's Witnesses can. (ever try to win a JW to Christ?) The Protestant religion is a powerful force in the minds of those who are caught up in it. Protestants can no more free themselves from their beliefs than the Catholics can.
When I married her, my wife was a Jehovah's Witness, as is her entire family. She grew up in that denomination and practiced it for many years. I've attended meetings with her and her family. She attended Mass with me as well. 15 years ago, she converted to Catholicism, was confirmed, and is a more reliable churchgoer than I am. No, I did not "win a JW for Christ". JW's are already very much for Christ. She changed the form of her religion, because of what she saw at the Mass, and what she saw among Catholics. Came to her own decision to do that. The Church won her over, not me. She was with Christ before, she's still with Christ, but now she puts up a Christmas tree and sings along with the carols. Catholicism is a happier religion than Jehovah's Witness-ism, and she prefers to be happy.
Those are not errors. Those are words that demonstrate the belief in the efficacity of prayers for the dead. Here's another example of error in the Apocrypha: Tobit 12:9, "For alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting." Alms can "purgeth away sin"? No! Only the blood of Christ can purge away sin. This is why the Apocrypha was excluded from the canon. Do you believe that sins are purged by alms? Can a person buy salvation from God? Can you just give some cash and receive everlasting life? That's precisely what the Catholic Church teaches. Nice little side hustle. Ka-ching! Another soul cleared from purgatory!
JW's deny the deity of Christ...rendering His death on the cross to no avail.
Protestants for the most part come to Christ after they have come to an age of accountability...many never having been brought up in a Christian environment. They receive Christ willingly, knowingly. Catholics inculcate their children from birth...often passive but always pervasive. And if its not the parents its the aunts and uncles, or the rest of the extended family. I see this first hand in all my Catholic friends. I performed the marriage ceremony of a dear Catholic couple, but only after they had attended my house church for a very long time and clearly understood salvation. I have to tell you, they found love and fellowship with us, while the priest would not give them the time of day. Some damnable Catholic issue he had, I forget exactly what. That marriage was many years ago and they are happily married today. But that Catholicism had a terrible hold on them...guilt and fear that they were somehow not right.
Jesus said that God judges based on sin, forgiveness and deeds. He said that those who forgive, are forgiven, to the extent they forgive, and spoke of those who do not help the poor as being sent into the lake of fire. What are alms? Helping the poor. So yes, giving money to help the poor is certainly a deed on which one is judged - favorably - by God. Just like the Bible says. You Protestants took the parts out of the Bible that don't fit your cranky 450 year old theology.
Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.
So, you can buy your way into heaven?
Sort of. By doing what Jesus said, you can guarantee yourself a passing grade at the final judgment. For men are judged on their deeds. Alms are deeds. So is forgiving.
You like to boast a lot. About how you are more ho.y because of some rats you imagined God raised. You like to brag that you are rich. You are wrong. Not sure if you are lying or just ignorant. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I DO ignore all the lies that have been foisted upon a once pious and religious people. Since Vatican II the church, once called Roman Catholic Church, is gone. Gone is the adulation and awe that was once this great institution but now is enmeshed in secular humanism, slander and pedophilia. It is today an insult to God and to all those who have died in and died for the faith. It has fomented a new religion that worships mankind and the earth.
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
In the case of the politically powerful,it is ALWAYS about money laundering in payment for getting new laws passed that benefit the people doing the hiring,or old laws being repealed that hurt them. In plain language,it is political corruption.
In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.
I like to annoy the holier-than-thou crowd of pious "Christian" hypocrites, for whom the rules are "Good for me, but not for thee." I have never said that I am more holy because God talks to me, saved me from drowning paralysed with a broken neck when I was boy, and raised two dead animals in my hands. I note those things as the facts they are, and explain that they are the REASON I am certain about the existence of God. The people who are worried that this makes me "holier than thou" are you, not me. You keep returning to those things, AS THOUGH I were claiming authority on account of them - I don't even bring them up. I know my proximity to God, at least at times, because of those events. I never presume to talk about yours. Rather, my proximity to God worries you, annoys you, enrages you, to the point YOU keep returning to it like a dog who can't help licking a wound. Of course, my blessings are not a wound to you at all, UNLESS you're one of those holier- than-thou Christian hypocrites, for whom it is OUTRAGEOUS that God would be so forward with someone who "Believes wrong", like me (in your oft-stated opinion). It's you who changes my blessings into boasts, because you want to find a handhold, some purchase, by which to attack those experiences (because blessed, holy you has not experienced them, and YOU practice RIGHT religion...according to you, and because there's no reason that a CATHOLIC sinner should be so blessed.) It angers you, at God, so you direct your rage at me - calling me a liar (I'm not), saying I boast about these things (I don't - YOU keep bringing them up, because the thought of them torments YOU, I am completely serene about it all). And, typical of your breed, you can't even choose passages of Scripture that make your point. You're focused on the old Catholic/Lutheran faith versus works business, and asserting something about works. But I didn't heal my own neck, and I didn't raise those two animals from the dead - if I had the power to do works like that I'd be in the world news everyday, healing everybody in hospital after hospital, bringing back kids who got hit by busses or drowned in the lake. Obviously those miracles were not MY works, they were acts of God. Really what you're trying to do is forbid God from healing a Catholic and raising animals from the dead. That's not the world you want to live in. It's not RIGHT, according to YOUR religion. Evidently God doesn't agree with you. You're mad at HIM for doing what he did, so you yell at me. And you don't even see that that is what you're doing. Rage on! For my part, it simply lets me set the record straight over and over - and in the process relive the most gloriously stunning moments of my life. For your part, well, God hears and sees everything, so really by punching at me about miracles he did, you're goading him to do the same for you. Maybe he will. I certainly do not presume to know the intentions of God half as much as you do with your off-topic Bible quotes and your hyperbolic "Christian" hypocrisy.
I dont doubt god does miracles. I just dont think god raised a dirty rodent from the dead in your hands. It either wasn't dead but and you were honestly mistaken. Or you as re lying to boast. O believe you were mistaken. That is my opinion.
#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
So what's the issue, then, jealousy?
#3. To: IbJensen (#2)
#4. To: Vicomte13, IBJensen (#3)
I simply have no problem with nepotism.
#5. To: IbJensen, Vicomte13 (#2)
(Edited)
I recall thinking you were an asshole after reading some of your blurbs, but that comment puts you in the asshole category. That, of course, puts you in bed with the Democrat-Communist Party which you might enjoy.
#6. To: Tooconservative (#5)
The only surprise would be if he wasn't. And, yes, if he could advance his daughter's prospects by underhanded behavior or influence peddling, he would do it in a heartbeat and have no qualms about it. You might as well act shocked that your dog gobbled up a piece of steak that fell on the floor during a meal. They might feign some guilt but they don't feel any in that circumstance.
#7. To: Vicomte13 (#6)
I don't support socialism, because that takes TOO MUCH,
#8. To: A K A Stone (#7)
Vic you said you supported a global welfare system where we give our tax dollars to foreigners. You said that and were quite dogmatic about it. That is what commie socialists think.
#9. To: Vicomte13 (#8)
I call it "Christianity", because it's what Christ demanded of us: feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the sick - that's full on Jesus, and everybody who is a Christian knows that already.
1Now the whole world had one language and a common speech...3They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; 5But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.8”So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. Gen. 11
#10. To: watchman (#9)
#11. To: Vicomte13 (#10)
and the Churches don't heal the sick at all - that's a massively expensive undertaking.
#12. To: watchman (#11)
But guess who's going to give it a shot...the ole anti-christ hisself is going to do it, with the world believing that he is god. So when you say global welfare you are singing his tune. You may not have to wait too long to see him promise the world that he'll lift everyone up to heaven-on-earth status.
#13. To: Vicomte13 (#8)
The poorest parts of the world lack sufficient wealth to get this done, so the wealthier parts of the world need to fund it, yes.
The Clinton Bush Haiti fund raised $54.4 million from more than 2,000,000 individuals, businesses, and organizations. It dispersed funds to more than 50 organizations through grants, loans, and equity investments. As of December 2012, the Fund estimated that its programs sustained or created 7,350 jobs, trained 20,050 individuals, and had an additional positive impact on the conditions of more than 311,000 Haitians.
#14. To: Tooconservative (#12)
And Vic will be right there, lecturing all of us...
#15. To: watchman (#14)
No way! Vic will recognize that AC guy, thanks to me lecturing HIM right here on this forum :-)
#16. To: Tooconservative (#15)
I don't doubt your ability to convince him.
#17. To: Tooconservative (#12)
And Vic will be right there, lecturing all of us about how deficient and horrible we are and how that nice Antichrist guy gets a bad rap. We'll hear the same crap from the False Prophet, either Pope Frank or one of his successors.
#18. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#17)
Jeez Louise. May as well call me "Lucifer's little helper".
#19. To: watchman (#16)
The false believers will certainly be lost but the true Christians WILL wake up (probably too late, but they will wake up).
#20. To: Tooconservative (#19)
The impression I get is that Christians will wake up one day, see an Antichrist dictator on TV
#21. To: Tooconservative (#19)
The False Prophet is the tipoff that the Antichrist is near.
#22. To: Vicomte13 (#1)
Companies giving Chelsea Clinton board roles to have access to her famous and powerful parents is not illegal.
#23. To: Tooconservative (#19)
Maybe. The impression I get is that Christians will wake up one day, see an Antichrist dictator on TV, and mention it at church and discover that 90% of their "brethren" are ready to turn them in to the new world government as subversives.
#24. To: Vicomte13 (#23)
There is not much in common between Catholics and you guys, not really. And what little there is arises practically by accident. I guess what we do have in common is that we're both certain that we're the genuine People of God, that we have it right, and that God is with us. Nothing you've said to me on this and other threads has ever done anything more than deepen that certitude.
he level of vituperation that comes out of you "Christians", the legalism that amounts to nullification of the social responsibility of Christians to do anything more than they personally feel like doing - none of it sounds to me remotely like Christ.
I'm taking my leave of Liberty's Flame again for awhile.
Even the other Catholic here, Anthem (I think he's Catholic), was raging at me in full asshole mode the other day. What's the point of listening to this?
Bye for now.
#25. To: Vicomte13 (#23)
I'm taking my leave of Liberty's Flame again for awhile. Even the other Catholic here, Anthem (I think he's Catholic), was raging at me in full asshole mode the other day. What's the point of listening to this?
#26. To: Tooconservative (#5)
#27. To: Willie Green (#25)
"The Pope is the AntiChrist" bullshit...
#28. To: A K A Stone (#27)
The Roman church is blasphemous in their worship of sinner Mary the non virgin.
#29. To: Willie Green (#28)
Catholics don't worship Mary...
#30. To: Willie Green (#28)
So if you really want to risk eternal hellfire & damnation by being so disrespectful of Christ's Mother, that's your problem, not mine...
#31. To: A K A Stone (#29)
So is she a God or an object of worship?
#32. To: A K A Stone (#30)
It is a fact that she is a sinner, we all are. It is a fact that she had other kids. Making her a non virgin.
Catholics are only referring to the birth of Christ...
That was a miraculous act of God... No horny human poked her in the pussy to do that.
I sure hope not... I've heard plenty of strange conspiracy theories before, but that one's out there in la-la-land....
#33. To: Willie Green (#31)
She's an intermediary... They know she's already in heaven,
#34. To: Willie Green (#32)
Wrong again... It doesn't matter how she conceived any other kids she may have had... Catholics are only referring to the birth of Christ... That was a miraculous act of God... No horny human poked her in the pussy to do that.
#35. To: Willie Green (#32)
Are you trying to tell us that Joseph was actually Christ's biological daddy?
#36. To: A K A Stone (#33)
She is dead. She can't hear shit.
#37. To: Willie Green (#36)
So what's that in Heaven with all the angels? Her cold, stiff, worm-eaten corpse?
#38. To: Willie Green (#36)
#39. To: A K A Stone (#34)
You don't believe the Bible is what is sounds like to me.
#40. To: A K A Stone (#37)
The resurrection has not happened yet. Or has it?
#41. To: Willie Green (#39)
Fuck all that stupid bullshit...
#42. To: Willie Green (#40)
So what do you think the Easter Bunny is all about? Just another excuse to sell chocolate?
#43. To: A K A Stone (#38)
Suggest a Verse
#44. To: A K A Stone (#41)
Your position is that Jesus was a liar. Ok got ya.
#45. To: A K A Stone (#42)
The easter bunny isn't biblical.
#46. To: Willie Green (#44)
#47. To: Willie Green (#45)
#48. To: A K A Stone (#46)
You were manipulated to believe evolution
#49. To: Willie Green (#48)
#50. To: Willie Green (#25)
#51. To: All, *Music* (#48)
Well that's what makes me smarter than a monkey,
#52. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
#53. To: Vicomte13 (#50)
#54. To: A K A Stone (#52)
#55. To: Willie Green (#53)
#56. To: A K A Stone, Willy Green, (#33)
Given that Paul is the most prolific author of various books (epistles) in scripture and the most theological of the writers of NT scripture, Rome really can't elevate Mary to a position of co-Savior so easily. It is clear enough that they did this to aid in proselytizing those who belonged to ancient pagans who celebrated fertility goddesses, much as they have compromised scripture in other eras to hoodwink non-Christians into accepting the state religion of the Roman empire, namely Roman Catholicism.
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
#57. To: IbJensen, redleghunter (#26)
I too am a Roman Catholic. The difference between myself and V is perhaps that I am Sedevacantist.
#58. To: Tooconservative, Willie Green, Vicomte13 (#56)
#59. To: A K A Stone (#58)
Does Mary hear every prayer from every person on earth in every language?
#60. To: Tooconservative (#56)
(Edited)
#61. To: Tooconservative (#59)
#62. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
God sent Mary repeatedly to earth
#63. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
Paul doesn't have the final word. God sent Mary repeatedly to earth - the only person he has seny back since Jesus ascended. He sent her to Guadelupe, and thereby rapidly effected the conversion of the Mesoamerican and Latin American Indians to the faith of Jesus. He sent her to Lourdes, and the healing miracles still proliferate.
#64. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
#65. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
the only person he has (sic) seny back since Jesus ascended.
#66. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
our great theological error is to close off God's interactions with man with the end of the Bible. He has continued to do so, with miracle and with visitations. The public visitations, the person sent from Heaven for these things, is Mary. Over and over. So yeah, the Catholics are right about this.
#67. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
our great theological error is to close off God's interactions with man with the end of the Bible. He has continued to do so, with miracle and with visitations. The public visitations, the person sent from Heaven for these things, is Mary. Over and over. So yeah, the Catholics are right about this.
#68. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
You're like a Jew resisting Jesus. God manifestly does something new, it's not in your book, so you deny it. Some of your ilk even ascribe the actions of God to Satan. Jesus warned against doing that.
#69. To: Tooconservative (#57)
#70. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
it's not in your book, so you deny it.
#71. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
Paul doesn't have the final word. God sent Mary repeatedly to earth - the only person he has seny back since Jesus ascended.
#72. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
#73. To: A K A Stone (#62)
What verse is that? Oh it isn't in the Bible.
#74. To: A K A Stone (#63)
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
#75. To: A K A Stone (#64)
#76. To: Vicomte13 (#74)
Mary has never said "I am the Christ." It's always perfectly obvious she is Christ's mother, calling people to her son.
#77. To: Vicomte13 (#75)
A K A Stone, you like the judge Catholicism by judging me and my faults.
#78. To: IbJensen (#69)
Everything that happened during and after Vatican II, including the popes during that dark time is invalid.
#79. To: All (#77)
Now go ahead and address every point I made. I made several excellent points.
#80. To: A K A Stone (#66)
No you are not right about this and neither are the idiot Catholics. You pray to her not God. The Mary you pray of is not the Mary of the Bible.
#81. To: A K A Stone (#67)
And he said unto them, Full well ye REJECT the commandment of God, that ye may KEEP your own tradition. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
#82. To: A K A Stone (#78)
What about praying to Mary in violatoin of scripture. That was before Vatican II.
#83. To: A K A Stone (#68)
"something in your book" It isn't your book is it.
#84. To: A K A Stone (#70)
Neither is there salvation in ANY other: for there is NONE other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
#85. To: Vicomte13 (#83)
My book has 9 additional books in it that you people cut out of it fifteen hundred years after the fact, because they conflict with the theology that you want to believe.
#86. To: Vicomte13 (#84)
That passage in Acts is talking about Jesus. And here you go, pretending that your book IS Jesus. That is idolatry, pure and simple.
#87. To: Vicomte13 (#80)
#88. To: A K A Stone (#71)
Jesus said, "They that worship the Father must worship him in spirit and in TRUTH." We have to worship God according to the truth.
#89. To: IbJensen (#82)
She became recognized as a Saint
#90. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
Yes. And the truth is that revelation did not stop when the last words in the book were written, and God did not stop interacting with the world
#91. To: A K A Stone (#72)
5 Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
#92. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
It's a matter of following Jesus, who said to feed the poor, shelter the homeless, heal the sick, visit the prisoner, take care of the widowed and the orphan. But you twist the book to say that this is purely voluntary (it isn't) and that people getting together through the institutions they control (e.g. government)is contrary to God, which it isn't.
#93. To: A K A Stone (#85)
#94. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
Your religion fits the contours of your political beliefs - and where your political beliefs don't match what Jesus said, you don't see it at all and genuinely assert that your book says exactly what your politics believes. This is the great sin and obvious howling error of American political evangelism.
#95. To: Vicomte13 (#93)
The book of Sirach, the book of Wisdom, the book of Judith, the book of Tobit, the books of 1 Maccabbees and 2 Maccabbees, about half of the book of Daniel - all present in the oldest complete Bible, all excised by Martin Luther and his ilk.
#96. To: A K A Stone (#76)
You deny Christs book. You are saying your pope and his cult is the new christ.
#97. To: A K A Stone (#86)
Like does Mary hear everyones prayers in every language all over the earth? Don't be a pussy answer the question.
#98. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
By comparison, I recognize and freely admit that my bloodyminded militaristic urge to kill my enemies certainly stems from my upbringing, military training, and long military service. I recognize that it is not in accordance with Jesus, and that it is a struggle between my personality, and the expressed will of my God. It is something that I struggle with.
#99. To: A K A Stone (#90)
But it is also true that Mary is dead.
#100. To: Vicomte13 (#97)
I don't know. And neither do you.
#101. To: Vicomte13 (#99)
Purgatory
#102. To: Vicomte13 (#96)
I listen very carefully to Christ's words IN the portions of the book that contain them
#103. To: A K A Stone (#98)
Like I said I only bring that up to say why should I believe someone who is saying things that are in the Bible are not true.
#104. To: A K A Stone (#102)
He never said Purgatory. So you add to scripture like the Catholics.
#105. To: Vicomte13 (#88)
Also, the fact that God has touched me with miracles and I am unashamed to speak about them seems to drive you nuts.
#106. To: A K A Stone (#101)
But Paul is a liar according to what you have said in the past.
#107. To: Vicomte13 (#103)
#108. To: Vicomte13 (#106)
but it caused him to state some things in ways that diverge from what Jesus said.
#109. To: Vicomte13 (#106)
But this is not a discussion we can have. We cannot simultaneously discuss text from an academic viewpoint and fling poop at each other. That doesn't work. If you're going to fling poop, and I'm flinging it back you personally, for once, we're not going to bring in Scripture in a serious discussion.
#110. To: Vicomte13 (#60)
Paul doesn't have the final word. God sent Mary repeatedly to earth - the only person he has seny back since Jesus ascended.
#111. To: Vicomte13 (#83)
My book has 9 additional books in it that you people cut out of it fifteen hundred years after the fact, because they conflict with the theology that you want to believe.
#112. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#93)
The book of Sirach, the book of Wisdom, the book of Judith, the book of Tobit, the books of 1 Maccabbees and 2 Maccabbees, about half of the book of Daniel - all present in the oldest complete Bible, all excised by Martin Luther and his ilk.
#113. To: A K A Stone (#101)
That is true according to you and it isn't in the Bible. Jesus never said a word about it. But Paul is a liar according to what you have said in the past.
#114. To: Tooconservative (#113)
#115. To: A K A Stone (#89)
The saints are the christains. It is as simple as that
#116. To: Tooconservative (#110)
Paul went on to defeat Peter, the alleged first Roman pontiff, in a major theological battle over the conversion of Gentiles at the council of Jerusalem.
#117. To: Tooconservative (#113)
It's all for the glory of the Queen of Heaven, Mary.
#118. To: Tooconservative (#112)
Excised by the Council of Hippo and confirmed subsequently in the ancient NT canon. By the Roman Catholic church.
#119. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#118)
Utterly false. Go back to school. Those books have been part of the Catholic Canon, East and West, since the first complete Bibles of the 300s. Local synods disagreed about this and that.
#120. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#116)
They had a dispute. He appears to have persuaded Peter of something. The text hardly gives a trial transcript.
#121. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#117)
She always came in the name of her son, and always called people to follow her son, and they did.
#122. To: Vicomte13 (#118)
Those books have been part of the Catholic Canon, East and West, since the first complete Bibles of the 300s.
#123. To: Tooconservative (#120)
And Paul prevailed over Peter before the Council, very clearly.
After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
#124. To: watchman (#123)
#125. To: Tooconservative (#124)
I think Paul had a very aggressive personality.
#126. To: watchman (#122)
#127. To: Tooconservative (#121)
You'd worship her as the Queen of Heaven (and the Immaculate Queen of the Universe, as the sedevecantists do) if the Romans had just nailed one of her bloody tampons to a cross.
#128. To: Tooconservative (#119)
o what happened to your announced plan from two days ago to run away and pout for a while? You didn't carry through on your little threat.
#129. To: Vicomte13 (#126)
(Edited)
The Hebrews excluded those books at Jamnia, 90 years into the Christian era.
#130. To: Vicomte13 (#127)
Keep heaping derision on Mary.
#131. To: watchman, Vicomte13 (#129)
You are suggesting that the Apocrypha was part of the Hebrew canon up until Jamnia, and then tossed out. That isn't the case at all.
#132. To: Tooconservative (#130)
#133. To: Tooconservative (#131)
#134. To: Tooconservative, Vicomte13 (#131)
The disputed books were not included in the original NT canon for sound reasons.
2 Maccabbees 12:43, "And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection."
#135. To: watchman (#134)
#136. To: Vicomte13 (#99)
Mary is not dead.
#137. To: Vicomte13 (#126)
#138. To: Vicomte13 (#116)
#139. To: IbJensen, vicomte13 (#115)
he saints are the christains. It is as simple as that Nothing is 'simple' when it comes to religion! You're a big boy and you should know that.
#140. To: All (#139)
#141. To: vicomte13, antham (#139)
#142. To: Vicomte13, watchman (#141)
#143. To: Vicomte (#140)
#144. To: vicomte13 (#143)
#145. To: A K A Stone (#135)
(Edited)
Vic is deceived
#146. To: watchman (#134)
Errors in the Apocrypha.
#147. To: A K A Stone (#137)
No purgatory fool. It isn't in the Bible and this proves it scripturally.
#148. To: A K A Stone (#142)
The Catholic Cult changed Gods plan for Bishops too.
#149. To: watchman (#145)
The Catholic religion is a powerful force in the minds of those who are caught up in it.
#150. To: watchman (#145)
(ever try to win a JW to Christ?)
#151. To: Vicomte13 (#146)
Errors in the Apocrypha.
#152. To: Vicomte13 (#150)
No, I did not "win a JW for Christ". JW's are already very much for Christ.
#153. To: Vicomte13 (#149)
(Edited)
The Protestant religion is a powerful force in the minds of those who are caught up in it.
#154. To: watchman (#151)
#155. To: watchman (#153)
Catholics inculcate their children from birth...
#156. To: Vicomte13 (#154)
So yes, giving money to help the poor is certainly a deed on which one is judged - favorably - by God.
#157. To: watchman (#156)
So, you can buy your way into heaven?
#158. To: Vicomte13 (#157)
So, you can buy your way into heaven? Sort of. By doing what Jesus said, you can guarantee yourself a passing grade at the final judgment. For men are judged on their deeds. Alms are deeds. So is forgiving.
#159. To: A K A Stone (#139)
if you just ignore all the lies taught in Catholic "Church".
#160. To: Vicomte13 (#3)
I simply have no problem with nepotism. People love their families, and absolutely have the right to promote them in things under their control. Why wouldn't they?
#161. To: A K A Stone (#158)
#162. To: Vicomte13 (#161)
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