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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Religion See other Religion Articles Title: Early Christian Philosophy and Aristotle Source: bionic mosquito URL Source: https://bionicmosquito.blogspot.com ... arly-christian-philosophy.html Published: Dec 11, 2019 Author: bionic mosquito Post Date: 2019-12-11 06:09:35 by Deckard Keywords: None Views: 2897 Comments: 17 About 1000 years before Aquinas, Christians had an encounter with Aristotle. It is an interesting bit of history.  The Christians as the Romans Saw Them, Robert L. Wilken Galen was a second century writer, studied in philosophy and medicine.  He was a native of Pergamum, located in western Asia Minor near the Aegean Sea.  Pergamum had a library second only to that in Alexandria; it was a wealthy city. Galen would arrive in Rome at the time when the Christian community was still not very large, yet it was one of the more significant Christian communities of the time.  Several of the most prominent Christian intellectuals and apologists were in Rome, including Justin Martyr.  Galen would write what became twenty-two volumes; while never directly writing of Christians, they were often mentioned. He commented several times on Christians who were like physicians that wrote with no scientific basis: “For one might more easily teach novelties to the followers of Moses and Christ than to the physicians and philosophers who cling fast to their schools.” The arguments presented by the Christians were little more than “God commanded” or “God spoke.”  Christians had developed a reputation for appealing to faith.  This was unsatisfactory for Galen.  Despite this – and due to the virtuous living that Galen saw in them – Galen treated the Christians with respect, not referring to them as a superstition, but instead as a philosophical “school.”  It was a dignified term.  It was also precisely at this time when writers like Justin Martyr were working to change this view.  There were other writers, such as Theodotus, who would lean on a rational foundation in the tradition of Aristotle.  This did not sit well with many of their fellow believers: “They have tampered with the Holy Scriptures without fear. …They put aside the holy scriptures of God, and devote themselves to geometry, since they are from the earth and speak from the earth, and do not know the one who comes from above.  Some of them give all their energies to the study of Euclidian geometry, they admire Aristotle and Theophrastus, and some of them almost worship Galen.” The use of Greek learning to interpret the Bible was frowned upon by most Christians at the time; in the few Christian sources where “philosophy” is mentioned, the word was used pejoratively.  As mentioned, Galen gave Christianity a bump up the ladder by referring to it as a philosophical school instead of a superstition.  This was because despite the flaws, as Galen saw these, he saw that Christianity was leading men to a virtuous life, and this was the sign of a good philosophy.  But the Christians were the simple people.  Simple people could not follow any demonstrative argument; they needed parables.  A good story beats a rational argument every time.  These Christian parables led to a virtuous way of living – and the proof of a good philosophy was if it brought people toward living a moral life, not merely a way of thinking about one. Piety and respect toward the gods; philanthropy and justice toward one’s fellow man.  These were the hallmarks of good philosophy, and Galen saw these in the Christians of his time. …they preached to men and women about how to live amid the twists and turns of fate and fortune. …Christians led people to embrace lives of discipline and self-control, to pursue justice, to overcome the fear of death. It was through their way of life, not their teaching, that Christians would catch the attention of the larger society.  This was somewhat difficult for Galen to understand, as there were aspects of Christian teaching that made little sense to him.  Like others educated in the Greek tradition, he believed it was impossible to do good without knowing the truth.  In his view, there was much truth that the Christians did not know, and much untruth that they did know.  The Mosaic view of creation falls squarely into this chasm.  Moses omitted the material cause and went straight to the efficient cause, with God creating something out of nothing merely by speaking. What follows is the debate that continues to this day: can God do anything, even that which against nature?  I am swayed by C.S. Lewis here: His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible.  You may attribute miracles to him, but not nonsense. Meaningless combinations of words cannot suddenly make sense just by adding the words “God can” to these.  I might go further and suggest that God created that which would not require Him to have to go against nature.  He is God, after all. But at the time, the Christian view offended the sensibilities of the Romans and the Greeks.  All things are possible to God – even, it seems, the nonsensical (to borrow from Lewis). Conclusion Galen was the first pagan author to place the Christian religion on the same footing as Greek philosophy.  Christianity would begin to be taken seriously in intellectual circles.  Obviously, a large part of this was due to the manner in which Christians lived – a real problem today, suggesting one reason Christians are no longer taken seriously. But returning to the purpose of this post: Aristotle might have been lost to Christianity for 1000 years, but he was there in the beginning.  One can also see, perhaps, something of the roots of the divide – even animosity – between the Eastern and Western traditions.  It was there, temporarily and due to Aristotle, in the first century after Christ. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: Deckard (#0) But the Christians were the simple people. Galen was the first pagan author to place the Christian religion on the same footing as Greek philosophy. Christianity would begin to be taken seriously in intellectual circles. Christianity was never meant to be intellectualized... ...For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand signs and Greeks search for (intellectual, philosophical) wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles...1 Cor. 1:21-23 (parentheses mine) So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and God-fearing Gentiles, and in the marketplace with those he met each day. Some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” while others said, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was proclaiming the good news of Jesus and the resurrection. So they took Paul and brought him to the Areopagus, where they asked him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? Acts 17:17-19 Attempts to intellectualize Christianity always fail, simply because those attempts undermine the SPIRITUAL power of faith in Christ. Seminaries run into this problem frequently...and end up being referred to as "cemeteries". And what could be more foolish than some jackass minister referring to himself or herself as Rev. Dr. So-and-so (Doctor of worldly wise Philosophy!). Women ministers always try to give themselves credibility by using that title. Gag. No. To intellectualize Christianity is to take it out of the reach of those who need it most...those who are perishing. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c] Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? ! Cor.1:18-20 watchman  posted on  2019-12-11   8:12:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: watchman (#1) Christianity was never meant to be intellectualized... "AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE" What does this mean? Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   9:42:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#2) What does this mean? You go first, Aristotle... watchman  posted on  2019-12-11   9:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: watchman (#3) (Edited) Let us begin with the fact that every human would have female external morphology without the production of, and response to, Androgen hormones... ...and how the self-worshiping caste of eunuchs have been propping up assorted "man-god" frauds atop their theocratic pyramid-schemes and assumimg dominion over the livestock thereunder... for 3000+ years. Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   10:19:53 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#4) how the self-worshiping caste of eunuchs have been propping up assorted "man-god" frauds You got that right...those Patriots fans are the WORST! watchman  posted on  2019-12-11   12:28:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: watchman (#5)     The world’s first city developed around its temples, and only later did palaces play a role. Its view of the world was conditioned, as in all ancient societies, by totalitarian religious belief. So the picture that comes into focus is that of a theocratic command economy, hierarchically organized , centrally directed, and regulated according to an ideology propagated by a priesthood, playing the role that, 5,000 years later, Soviet Marxists would call ‘the engineers of human souls’. Such was temple rule. Kriwaczek, Paul (2012-03-27). Babylon: Mesopotamia and the Birth of Civilization (p. 53). St. Martin's Press. Kindle Edition. https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Mesopotamia-Civilization-Paul-Kriwaczek/dp/1250054168   Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   12:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#6) https://www.amazon.com/Babylon-Mesopotamia-Civilization-Paul-Kriwaczek/dp/1250054168 Amazon reviews. An unfortunate purchase. The author's style is more Guardian than BBC. Not a scholarly work. (Fernando Alvarez) BORING! I love history, but this was so boring that I literally kept falling asleep trying to read it. Finally gave up on making it through the book and returned it to the library. (Bethany) watchman  posted on  2019-12-11   13:06:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: watchman (#7) (Edited) Cherry pick much? Amazon reviews. 5.0 out of 5 stars Great introduction for an educated, but non-expert audience. September 6, 2012 Format: Kindle EditionVerified Purchase The author uses a 'popular documentary' style, switching between current events/recent history, myths and stories, and the real meat of the book -- the history of ancient Sumeria and the Babylonians who followed them. I'd been searching for just such a book for quite a while. He makes a special effort to recreate a vivid sense of what life was like and discusses theories of how their first brilliant inventions were conceived and developed. The civilization is pretty much in full swing when he begins -- he does not spend much time in the development of agriculture, but still gives a brief overview of development from hunter-gathering, pastoralism, and early village life to full-blown urban civilization. I highly recommend the book. "Bethany" sounds like a typical MAGAtard with 3rd grade smarts. Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   13:11:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: watchman (#5) You got that right...those Patriots fans are the WORST! We try. Thanks for noticing. Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   15:04:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: Deckard, redleghunter (#0) Interesting choice for you to post here. We often look at the ancient churches through our own modern experience, not from the view of those in the ancient era and the dominant pagan culture. Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   15:06:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: Tooconservative (#10) (Edited) We often look at the ancient churches through our own modern experience "Those who control the past control the future Those who control the present control the past" --George Orwell How's that workin' for the caste of emasculated eunuch Sun/Aten-worshipers leading the cows to the state-established BBQ these days? [Akhenaten -- mad, bad, or brilliant?] www.telegraph.co.uk/cultu...mad-bad-or-brilliant.html Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   15:48:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: Peromischievous leucopus, A K A Stone (#11) I think Stone needs to put a sharp limit on your posts/articles per day. You're hijacking his forum. Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   16:17:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: Tooconservative (#12) (Edited) You haven't provided any evidence you "think" at all. C'mon. Rub that handful of functioning "conservative" dendrites together and tell the class why we shouldn't care how a bunch of syncretic eunuchs wearing silly hats pulled the Roman state-established "church" out of the Southern end of their Aten/self-worshiping digestive tract? Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   16:43:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: watchman (#7) An unfortunate purchase. The author's style is more Guardian than BBC. Not a scholarly work. (Fernando Alvarez) BORING! I love history, but this was so boring that I literally kept falling asleep trying to read it. Finally gave up on making it through the book and returned it to the library. (Bethany) "an unfortunate purchase" "Finally gave up on making it through the book and returned it to the library" So did "bethany" PURCHASE the book or not? Definitely Drump'f Maga-liar material! Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-11   17:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#14) "Finally gave up on making it through the book and returned it to the library" That's why her review is so believable. She didn't even buy the book from Amazon, but after reading it from the library she felt compelled to get on Amazon and warn others not to waste their time and money. Hilarious! Freaking hilarious! watchman  posted on  2019-12-11   18:09:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: Tooconservative (#9) You got that right...those Patriots fans are the WORST! We try. Thanks for noticing. Patriots fan! Noooooo! This is not the mental image I have of you, TC :-0 I thought you were from out west in cattle country. watchman  posted on  2019-12-11   18:16:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: watchman (#16) I thought you were from out west in cattle country. I am. I also completely ignore our state team and pretend they don't exist while I support the Patriots. I like to imagine that this combo makes me very popular. They haven't started throwing rocks at me yet anyway. I don't take sports seriously at all TBH. Tooconservative  posted on  2019-12-11   18:38:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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