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Faith, Apocalypse, and Nationalism: Why Evangelicals Are Vulnerable to Conspiracy Theories

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What drives belief in conspiracy theories, a lack of religion or too much?

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Talking With Tucker Carlson, the Most Powerful Conservative in America

Beyond bias


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Title: Tucker Investigates: What is destroying rural America?
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Published: Dec 4, 2019
Author: Tucker Carlson
Post Date: 2019-12-04 13:22:21 by Anthem
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#74. To: A K A Stone (#70)

Then what rights toes the 9th protect. It doesn't list any. You have to use your common sense.

Use YOUR common sense. SCOTUS has held that abortion is a constitutional right. If you want to go there, the right to abortion, not enumerated elsewhere, is protected by the 9th Amendment.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-08   11:19:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: nolu chan (#74)

If you want to go there, the right to abortion, not enumerated elsewhere, is protected by the 9th Amendment.

Kook talk. You're better than that Chan.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:23:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: nolu chan (#74)

SCOTUS has held that abortion is a constitutional right.

If their opinons differ from the words of the constitution it is color of law.

They usurped power that is why you can't cite their power in the constitution.

If you want to worship the Supreme court as infallible that is your prerogative.

Sure they rule and their rulings are enforced. Their rulings can put you in jail. But it is still TRUTHFULLY color of law.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:25:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: A K A Stone (#72)

I wanna see that law. Can you cite it? Why not?

Obergefell v. Hodges, 576 U.S. ___ (2008)

Held: The Fourteenth Amendment requires a State to license a mar­riage between two people of the same sex and to recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex when their marriage was lawful­ly licensed and performed out-of-State.

Obergefell at 4:

(3) The right of same-sex couples to marry is also derived from the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee of equal protection. The Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause are connected in a profound way.

I didn't write it, but it is now the law. You can make believe otherwise.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-08   11:32:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: nolu chan (#77)

That isn't a law it is an opinion.

Laws are passed by congress and signed by the president.

Can you cite a law? Because you said it was a law.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:33:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: nolu chan (#77)

I didn't write it, but it is now the law. You can make believe otherwise.

More color of law.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: A K A Stone (#76)

If their opinons differ from the words of the constitution it is color of law.

Yo8u quite obviously refuse to recognize what "color of law" signifies, despite my quoting it to you from Black's Law Dictionary. Your attempted usage is meaningless.

What SCOTUS is the law. What you say is your opinion and does not displace the opinion of SCOTUS. They are empowered by the Constitution as the final arbiter of federal law, you are not.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-08   11:35:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: A K A Stone (#79)

More color of law.

If you do not know what it means, stop trying to use it.

Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.

Color of law. The appearance or semblance, without the substance, of legal right. Misuse of power, possessed by virtue of state law and made possible only because wrongdoer is clother with authority of state, is action taken under "color of state law.” Atkins v. Lanning, D.C.Okl., 415 F.Supp. 186, 188.

When used in the context of federal civil rights statutes or criminal law, the term is synonymous with the concept of "state action" under the Fourteenth Amendment, Timson v. Weiner, D.C.Ohio, 395 F.Supp. 1344, 1347; and means pretense of law and includes actions of officers who undertake to perform their official duties, Thompson v. Baker, D.C.Ark., 133 F.Supp. 247; 42 U.S. C.A. § 1983. See Tort (Constitutional tort).

Action taken by private individuals may be "under color of state law” for purposes of 42 U.S.C.A. § 1983 governing deprivation of civil rights when significant state involvement attaches to action. Wagner v. Metropolitan Nashville Airport Authority, C.A.Tenn., 772 F.2d 227, 229.

Acts "under color of any law” of a State include not only acts done by State officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of an official to be done "under color of any law”, the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his official duties; that is to say, the unlawful acts must consist in an abuse or misuse of power which is possessed by the official only because he is an official; and the unlawful acts must be of such a nature or character, and be committed under such circumstances, that they would not have occurred but for the fact that the person committing them was an official then and there exercising his official powers outside the bounds of lawful authority. 42 U.S.C.A. § 1983.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_(law)

Color of law refers to an appearance of legal power to act that may operate in violation of law. For example, if a police officer acts with the "color of law" authority to arrest someone, the arrest, if it is made without probable cause, may actually be in violation of law. In other words, just because something is done with the "color of law" does not mean that the action was lawful. When police act outside their lawful authority and violate the civil rights of a citizen, the FBI is tasked with investigating.

The US Supreme Court has interpreted the US Constitution to construct laws regulating the actions of the law enforcement community. Under "color of law," it is a crime for one or more persons using power given by a governmental agency (local, state or federal), to deprive or conspire wilfully to deprive another person of any right protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States. Criminal acts under color of law include acts within and beyond the bounds or limits of lawful authority. Off-duty conduct may also be covered if official status is asserted in some manner. Color of law may include public officials and non-governmental employees who are not law enforcement officers such as judges, prosecutors, and private security guards.

"Color of law" is completely irrelevant to this discussion.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-08   11:37:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: nolu chan (#77)

I get you chan. Don't take my disagreement as desrespect.

You just quote what the governent currently says the law is. Even when they get it wrong. You quote what will happen to you if you disobey it.

See i'm different.

I'm interested in the truth of what the words actually mean and not some lawyer spin. The Constitution means what it actually says. Even when a usurping supreme court (yes small letters like in the Constitution) says differently. I agree that they have the actual power to do that. It doesn't make it truth though as the actual meaning and intent of the Constitution. Another example would be the interstate commerce clause doesn't mean what the traitors on the Supreme court said it means. You know that. You do know that. Admit it. Please.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:38:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: nolu chan (#81)

Acts "under color of any law” of a State include not only acts done by State officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority,

Yep color of law. The Supreme court usurped authority it didn't have. Now we all pretend the Constitution gave them that power. It didn't which is why you can't cite it.

You also can't cite any rights the 9th gives us. Except your pretend abortion argument that you know isn't true.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:40:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: nolu chan (#80)

What SCOTUS is the law. What you say is your opinion and does not displace the opinion of SCOTUS. They are empowered by the Constitution as the final arbiter of federal law, you are not.

What SCOTUS says is not law but opinion. They even call them opinions.

You are correct what I say does not displace opinions (you got it right that time and called them opinions) of the supreme court.

They are not empowered by the Constitution as the final arbiter of federal laws. If I am incorrect please cite me the passage in the constitution that says such. You can't it doesn't say that. Truthfully he Supreme court usurped authority and give themselves that power with no legislation and no constitutional provisions that say such. You can pretend all you want but truth is that it is not in the Constitution anywhere.

You are also correct that I am not the final arbitrator on the matter. But that doesn't mean I am wrong. It means that they are liars or stupid or corrupt. The words in the Constitution mean what they say. Not black robe spin like interstate commerce and abortion murders.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:45:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: All (#84)

Oh and the last comment I forgot to say it was color of law from the little s supreme court.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:45:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: nolu chan (#81)

cts "under color of any law” of a State include not only acts done by State officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of an official to be done "under color of any law”,

You can beat me and shut me up. If you could only prove that the Supreme court is the final arbitrator using the Constitution. You can't do that though. You just ignore that point. You can't do it because those words aren't in there. They aren't Chan and you know it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-08   11:47:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: nolu chan (#60) (Edited)

Cite the statute.

"You shall not murder"

--Exodus 20:13

Not that you or your fellow Log Cabin Pipe Fitters would ever care about any of those statutes.

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-08   12:52:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: A K A Stone (#86)

If you could only prove that the Supreme court is the final arbitrator using the Constitution. You can't do that though. You just ignore that point. You can't do it because those words aren't in there. They aren't Chan and you know it.

U.S. Constitution, Article III.

Article III

Section 1.

The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.

Section 2.

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;—to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;—to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;—to controversies between two or more states;—between a state and citizens of another state;—between citizens of different states;—between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

[...]

Who do you think is the final arbiter when interpreting the Constitution? Liberty's Flame? Free Republic? Democratic Underground? dKos?

Cite the authority which empowers anyone but the U.S. Supreme Court. SCOTUS is the only court created by the Constitution.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-08   14:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: nolu chan, A K A Stone (#88)

you think is the final arbiter when interpreting the Constitution

Natural Law, as illustrated in Romans Chapter 1.

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-08   15:51:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Anthem, Socialist Trumpkins, Wealth Spread, *The Two Parties ARE the Same* (#0)

What is destroying rural America?

Socialist Trumpkin Republican, Wealth Spread.



Ron Paul - Lake Jackson Texas Values

Hondo68  posted on  2019-12-08   20:36:38 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Peromischievous leucopus (#89)

Natural Law, as illustrated in Romans Chapter 1.

Appeal Roe and Obergefell to the imaginary court of natural law. Enjoy your Big Mike lunch and good luck.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-08   23:49:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: nolu chan (#91)

imaginary court of natural law

The CDC provides a plethora of documentation establishing how UN-imaginary the court of Natural Law is.

Got Due Penalty?

Romans Chapter 1. RTFM.

Judas Goat  posted on  2019-12-09   12:20:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: Hondo68 (#90)

Misleading photo. There is no such critter as the traditional farmer anymore. They are all owned by Corporations,and ruled by the corporate board.

The traditional "family farm" only exists now as a "hobby farm".

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-12-10   19:15:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: sneakypete (#93)

There is no such critter as the traditional farmer anymore.

Very true. A farmer either has to go big, specialize, or have a second job "in town".

With one exception...the organic farmer. There are an ever increasing number of organic farmers here in Maine. And I know they are plentiful in upstate NY.

These farmers are making good money on small acreage. Their vegetables and meats are in high demand...and they take food stamps!

There are two organic farms within a mile of my place. One guy has been here for 20 years. The other guy started his farm about 6 years ago. They make big bucks.

A good friend of mine is just starting out. He grew 800 Cornish cross chickens this year and sold every one of them (at around $20 per bird). He grows several organic crops as well.

watchman  posted on  2019-12-10   20:01:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: watchman (#94)

I don't doubt that is happening in some areas where the farms are small,but what about the HUGE farms in the mid-west,and some areas of the south. We are talking farms that have thousands of acres of tillable land.

No way are they going to survive from roadside stands.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-12-12   17:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: sneakypete (#95)

what about the HUGE farms in the mid-west,and some areas of the south.

Those huge farms will be okay. As you mentioned, many of them are owned by corporations.

It's the midsize farms that have my attention. The farmer who supplies my hay was running 300 head of beef cattle until this year. Now he has reduced his herd to maybe 50 head. He told me that he cannot sell a year old calf for $700 and make money. He's heading for the door. I'm hearing this from others, as well.

My hay supplier's calves are the calves that find their way to the feed lots and eventually to the grocery stores, etc. And when he quits farming cattle he'll stop making hay which will affect me.

You don't even want to know what is happening to dairy farms. Suffice it to say, I'm glad just to be in the "hobby farm" category...

Today, grain prices went up 15% from my supplier.

People say, "Why do we need farmers? We can just go to the grocery store and get our food" ;-)

watchman  posted on  2019-12-13   22:44:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Judas Goat (#92)

[nc #91] Appeal Roe and Obergefell to the imaginary court of natural law.

[Judas Goat #91] The CDC provides a plethora of documentation establishing how UN-imaginary the court of Natural Law is.

By all means, take your case to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) and argue God's law in the imaginary CDC Ecclesiastical Court. Good luck and may ooga booga be with you.

Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Ed.

Natural law. This expression, "natural law,” or jus naturale, was largely used in the philosophical speculations of the Roman jurists of the Antonine age, and was intended to denote a system of rules and principles for the guidance of human conduct which, independently of enacted law or of the systems peculiar to any one people, might be discovered by the rational intelligence of man, and would be found to grow out of and conform to his nature, meaning by that word his whole mental, moral, and physical constitution. The point of departure for this conception was the Stoic doctrine of a life ordered "according to nature,” which in its turn rested upon the purely supposititious existence, in primitive times, of a "state of nature;” that is, a condition of society in which men universally were governed solely by a rational and consistent obedience to the needs, impulses, and promptings of their true nature, such nature being as yet undefaced by dishonesty, falsehood, or indulgence of the baser passions. In ethics, it consists in practical universal judgments which man himself elicits. These express necessary and obligatory rules of human conduct which have been established by the author of human nature as essential to the divine purposes in the universe and have been promulgated by God solely through human reason.

Constitutional Law, 6th Ed., Jerome A. Barron and C. Thomas Dienes, Black Letter Series, West Group, 2003, p. 165.

A. THE ORIGINAL CONSTITUTION

1. NATURAL RIGHTS

Despite some contrary judicial opinion in the early years of the Republic, the claim that there are extra-constitutional "natural rights" limiting governmental power has generally not been accepted by the courts. If the federal government exercises one of its delegated powers or the states exercise their reserved powers, some express or implied constitutional, statutory, or common law limitation must be found if the government action is to be successfully challenged.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-13   23:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: nolu chan (#97)

Despite some contrary judicial opinion in the early years of the Republic, the claim that there are extra-constitutional "natural rights" limiting governmental power has generally not been accepted by the courts.

That is because the courts have gone rouge.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Your post shows that originally they knew the truth before asshole liars came to power. Deceivers. Fakers. Murderers.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-14   0:36:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: A K A Stone (#98)

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Your post shows that originally they knew the truth before asshole liars came to power.

Ah, yes. They knew the troof before asshole liars came to power, and they inserted a clause, (The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people) ensuring that Natural Law, God's Law, philosophical speculations of the Roman jurists of the Antonine age, was retained by the people.

Not to be mistaken, slaves were considered persons. Before the assholes and liars took over, the Framers found a unique way to refer to slaves while bestowing to representation in Congress based on an enumeration of persons (census) and "adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding indians not taxed, three fifths of all other persons." Slaves were that "three fifths of all other persons."

And before the asshole liars came to power, the Framers enshrined slaves with the rights of livestock and other property. All men were created equal, but only white people were accorded the right to naturalization. All men and women were equal, but only white, male landowners could vote. In adopting the Law of God into the American legal system, so said the Founders and Framers before the assholes took over.

About seventy-five years later, President Abe Lincoln went on a three-day drunk and passed out in his bed, his bed perhaps being the bed at the Soldier's Home cottage where President Lincoln frequently went to stay, to be joined in his bed by Captain David Derickson, but I digress. A cabinet member awakened Abe from his slumber and gave him the news. Lincoln jumped from his bed startled, and exclaimed, "I freed the who?"

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-14   11:55:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: watchman (#96)

Today, grain prices went up 15% from my supplier.

WHOLESALE prices?????

Yikes!

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-12-16   22:21:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: nolu chan (#99)

troof

????

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-17   7:05:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: nolu chan (#99)

Ah, yes. They knew the troof before asshole liars came to power, and they inserted a clause, (The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people) ensuring that Natural Law, God's Law, philosophical speculations of the Roman jurists of the Antonine age, was retained by the people.

Not to be mistaken, slaves were considered persons. Before the assholes and liars took over, the Framers found a unique way to refer to slaves while bestowing to representation in Congress based on an enumeration of persons (census) and "adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding indians not taxed, three fifths of all other persons." Slaves were that "three fifths of all other persons."

And before the asshole liars came to power, the Framers enshrined slaves with the rights of livestock and other property. All men were created equal, but only white people were accorded the right to naturalization. All men and women were equal, but only white, male landowners could vote. In adopting the Law of God into the American legal system, so said the Founders and Framers before the assholes took over.

About seventy-five years later, President Abe Lincoln went on a three-day drunk and passed out in his bed, his bed perhaps being the bed at the Soldier's Home cottage where President Lincoln frequently went to stay, to be joined in his bed by Captain David Derickson, but I digress. A cabinet member awakened Abe from his slumber and gave him the news. Lincoln jumped from his bed startled, and exclaimed, "I freed the who?"

blah blah blah

The 9th amendment is real. It was voted on. It is part of the constitution.

Can you name some of the rights it protects? Or are you going to go off on a strange tangent again?

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-17   7:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: sneakypete (#100)

Yikes!

Your comment prompted me to investigate.

Grain prices went up 15%...but it was specific to this local mill...and specific to dairy grain...go figure.

Not the end of the world yet lol

watchman  posted on  2019-12-17   11:10:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: watchman (#103)

Grain prices went up 15%...but it was specific to this local mill...and specific to dairy grain...go figure.

Thanks.

I wonder why? Could it be the bank is trying to force them to sell so they can buy it at a bankruptcy sale?

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-12-17   18:43:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: sneakypete (#104)

I wonder why?

This mill is a big facility that sells custom blended grain in bulk to farmers.

But I noticed they were making improvements...adding a retail space.

Perhaps they're passing those costs on to me.

Thing is, I can buy Blue Seal Milk Maker at full retail (for 15% cheaper!) at the farm co-op.

To add insult to injury, the mill had to stop selling molasses from their bulk tank (because the FDA inspector decided it was unsanitary). I was only paying $1.80/gallon. The co-op wants $6/gallon for the same molasses!

Between the grain increase and the FDA...well, I'm stunned I tell ya

But that's okay, Pete, we'll just keep on milking!

watchman  posted on  2019-12-17   22:31:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: All (#0)

It appears that youtube has disabled the embed. The video is still there. www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdwH066g5lQ

Anthem  posted on  2019-12-17   23:24:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: Anthem (#106) (Edited)

It embeds fine. You have to wait for the ad to finish playing first. The embed wasn't present when ad was playing.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-18   0:10:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: nolu chan (#99)

I appreciate what you've done on this thread. You'd be a fine lawyer in the legal realist tradition (where I also reside).

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-12-23   18:02:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: A K A Stone (#78)

That isn't a law it is an opinion.

Laws are passed by congress and signed by the president.

Thank you, A K A Stone! Finally, somebody's figured it out.

goldilucky  posted on  2019-12-23   18:12:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: Vicomte13 (#108)

Lets see how real you are. What does interstate commerce mean in the constitution?

Do you pretend like the Supreme court or are you REAL honest?

Will Vic go with color of law or real truth?

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-24   9:06:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: A K A Stone (#110)

Do you pretend like the Supreme court or are you REAL honest?

Well, let's see how honest you are.

The FAA regulates interstate flights. I'm sure you agree they have that power.

But they also regulate intrastate flights. According to you they don't have that power, correct?

So let's leave it up to the 50 individual states to do that. Hey, a few mid-air collisions are a small price to pay for honoring the "honest" meaning of the Commerce Clause.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-12-24   10:23:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: misterwhite (#111)

The FAA regulates interstate flights. I'm sure you agree they have that power.

But they also regulate intrastate flights. According to you they don't have that power, correct?

Never thought about it.

I'm talking about something else.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-24   10:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#102)

The 9th amendment is real. It was voted on. It is part of the constitution.

Can you name some of the rights it protects?

No. The 9th Amendment states a rule of constitutional construction and does not, in itself, contain a guarantee of any right, or proscription of any infringement.

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Can you name the rights protected by the 9th Amendment? Which ones does the 9th Amendment name?

It only protects against construing the constitution’s enumeration of some rights to attack or deny or disparage others because they are not enumerated. As the right to keep and bear arms is enumerated in the 2nd Amendment, the 9th Amendment has no application to it whatever. However, assuming arguendo the the RKBA were not enumerated, the 9th Amendment would not prohibit restrictions or regulations upon the RKBA.

If the RKBA were not enumerated, the 9th Amendment would prevent denying that right on the sole and exclusive basis that it was not enumerated. That is all.

As an historical note, I would observe that James Madison did NOT write the 2nd Amendment. Madison proposed a set of amendments on 8 June 1789. The introduction of the proposed amendments and the associated colloquy on that occasion are in The Annals of Congress I, at pp. 439-68.

Madison’s draft of what led to the 9th Amendment reads:

The exceptions here or elsewhere in the con­stitution, made in favor of particular rights, shall not be so construed as to diminish the just importance of other rights retained by the peo­ple, or as to enlarge the powers delegated by the constitution; but either as actual limitations of such powers, or as inserted merely for greater caution.

The assholes of 1789 put Madison’s wording through the congressional committee sausage making process to create the wording that was ultimately offered and ratified, as quoted above.

The purpose of the 9th Amendment was to gain approval for the Constitution as a whole, and the inclusion of a Bill of Rights in particular. Several of the eleven (11) states in the Union at that time were opposed to the enumeration of any rights, lest the enumerated rights be construed as a denial of those rights not so enumerated. Two states were opposed to the Constitution as it was framed and adopted, and had not joined the new Union.

As an historical note I reference the comments of James Madison and Roger Sherman upon the introduction of the proposed amendments.

[Madison, 8 Jun 1789] It cannot be a secret to the gentlemen in this House, that, notwithstanding the unification of this system of Government by eleven of the thirteen United States, in some cases unani­mously, in others by large majorities; yet still there is a great number of our constituents who are dissatisfied with it; among whom are many respectable for their talents and patriotism, and respectable for the jealousy they have for their liberty, which, though mistaken in its object, is laudable in its motive. There is a great body of the people falling under this description, who at present feel much inclined to join their sup­port to the cause of Federalism, if they were satisfied on this one point. We ought not to disregard their inclination, but, on principles of amity and moderation, conform to their wish­es, and expressly declare the great rights of mankind secured under this constitution. The acquiescence which our fellow-citizens show under the Government, calls upon us for a like return of moderation. But perhaps there is a stronger motive than this for our going into a consideration of the subject. It is to provide those securities for liberty which are required by a part of the community; I allude in a par­ticular manner to those two States that have not thought fit to throw themselves into the bosom of the Confederacy. It is a desirable thing, on our part as well as theirs that a re-union should take place as soon as possible. I have no doubt it we proceed to take those steps which would be prudent and requisite at this juncture, that in a short time we should see that disposition prevailing in those States which have not come in, that we have seen prevailing in those States which have embraced the con­stitution.

[...]

[Roger Sherman, 8 June 1789] I do not suppose the consti­tution to be perfect, nor do I imagine if Con­gress and all the Legislatures on the continent were to revise it, that their united labors would make it perfect. I do not expect any perfec­tion on this side the grave in the works of man; but my opinion is, that we are not at present in circumstances to make it better. It is a won­der that there has been such unanimity in adopting it, considering the ordeal it had to un­dergo; and the unanimity which prevailed at its formation is equally astonishing; amidst all the members from the twelve States present at the federal convention, there were only three who did not sign the instrument to attest their opinion of its goodness. Of the eleven States who have received it, the majority have ratified it without proposing a single amendment. This circumstance leads me to suppose that we shall not be able to propose any alterations that are likely to be adopted by nine States; and gentle­men know, before the alterations take effect, they must be agreed to by the Legislatures of three-fourths of the States in the Union.

The 9th Amendment was part of a sales pitch and looks like it says more than it does.

I have frequently made disparaging reference to penumbras formed by emanations from various rights. With the 9th Amendment, you stepped squarely into the penumbras and emanations divined by the U.S. Supreme Court in Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 484 (1965).

The foregoing cases suggest that specific guarantees in the Bill of Rights have penumbras, formed by emanations from those guarantees that help give them life and substance. See Poe v. Ullman, 367 U. S. 497, 367 U. S. 516-522 (dissenting opinion). Various guarantees create zones of privacy. The right of association contained in the penumbra of the First Amendment is one, as we have seen. The Third Amendment, in its prohibition against the quartering of soldiers "in any house" in time of peace without the consent of the owner, is another facet of that privacy. The Fourth Amendment explicitly affirms the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures." The Fifth Amendment, in its Self-Incrimination Clause, enables the citizen to create a zone of privacy which government may not force him to surrender to his detriment. The Ninth Amendment provides: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

The Fourth and Fifth Amendments were described in Boyd v. United States, 116 U. S. 616, 116 U. S. 630, as protection against all governmental invasions "of the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life." * We recently referred

381 U. S. 485

in Mapp v. Ohio, 367 U. S. 643, 367 U. S. 656, to the Fourth Amendment as creating a "right to privacy, no less important than any other right carefully an particularly reserved to the people." See Beaney, The Constitutional Right to Privacy, 1962 Sup.Ct.Rev. 212; Griswold, The Right to be Let Alone, 55 Nw.U.L.Rev. 216 (1960).

We have had many controversies over these penumbral rights of "privacy and repose." See, e.g., Breard v. Alexandria, 341 U. S. 622, 341 U. S. 626, 341 U. S. 644; Public Utilities Comm'n v. Pollak, 343 U. S. 451; Monroe v. Pape, 365 U. S. 167; Lanza v. New York, 370 U. S. 139; Frank v. Maryland, 359 U. S. 360; Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U. S. 535, 316 U. S. 541. These cases bear witness that the right of privacy which presses for recognition here is a legitimate one.

The present case, then, concerns a relationship lying within the zone of privacy created by several fundamental constitutional guarantees.

While nobody can recite a list of rights guaranteed by the 9th Amendment, some may divine that such rights are found within a penumbra emanated by some fundamental constitutional guarantee within the Bill of Rights.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-24   20:19:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: nolu chan (#113)

No. The 9th Amendment states a rule of constitutional construction and does not, in itself, contain a guarantee of any right, or proscription of any infringement.

lol how cute. Words don't mean what they say.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-12-25   8:56:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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