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Corrupt Government
See other Corrupt Government Articles

Title: If A Picture is Worth a Thousand Words, Then What Do These Memes Say? (Parts VIII & I)
Source: The Potters Clay
URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6ulv9aQno
Published: Oct 10, 2018
Author: The Potters Clay
Post Date: 2019-10-07 12:02:10 by Liberator
Keywords: Truth, Memes, Hmmm
Views: 45543
Comments: 340

A little Meme action...
If you haven't seen them, checkout the rest!

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part I
https://youtu.be/ptar5YtS_Sk

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth A Thousand Words - Part II
https://youtu.be/FchgUVA4SxE

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part III
https://youtu.be/Kth6X1g7bWk

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part IV
https://youtu.be/eVk3DIwf66c

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part V
https://youtu.be/qJAsGkP99rg

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part VI
https://youtu.be/z2a6g-nfQRU

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part VII
https://youtu.be/9Xsh2LJ1SvY

A Flat Earth Picture is Worth a Thousand Words - Part IX
https://youtu.be/X-D54GbpPjQ


Poster Comment:

Get bored easily? No time to watch long videos? MEMES TO THE RESCUE! Short & Sweet.

These are found at a Christian You Tube called, 'The Potters Clay'...

These are REALLY good. Fun stuff. I promise. Spectacular AND clever. It doesn't matter what your core belief is; you will come upon several memes that will stop you dead in your tracks and challenge you.

(STRONG SUGGESTION: To adjust and slow these memes down, go to your YouTube 'Settings', then adjust 'Playback Speed to .75. It will give you more time to contemplate the meme, since they move along pretty fast.)

When you have the time, please give them all a look; I consider them a crash-course in Earth-Science Truth, Logic, and Reason.

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#58. To: Pinguinite (#54)

I guess it's when the time and effort I expend to debate and, what I would consider "enlighten" simply goes absolutely nowhere. That is when it becomes frustrating.

Like I said a long time ago. It is like debating if 7 + 8 = 9. It is pointless and a waste of time and makes everyone stupider.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-10-16   8:26:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Pinguinite (#53)

#1) He claims the flight was from Bali to LAX. It wasn't. It was from Taiwan. I found 2 youtubes on the subject. Both were news reports, one in english, and the other in a foreign language. The english one stated and illustrated the flight being from Taiwan. The non-english one didn't show a map but the vid was titled as saying it was from Bali. The woman was from Taiwan. I searched and found a site saying no non-stop flights from Bali to LAX exist. I searched Kayak which gave flight opportunities only with 1 or more stops, no direct flights.

Crap. I got up, full of my righteous sense of duty to keep all the Rounders from being corrupted into Flattism (as a duly-appointed Gatekeeper) and wasted a bunch of time on Expedia and other sites.

Only to post it and discover that you had covered the same ground in far fewer words.

You, sir, are the Master Gatekeeper.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   8:29:27 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Pinguinite (#54)

There's too much faith in the world. Faith in things that are simply not true. Our capacity to believe things is grossly underestimated and unappreciated.

For years and years you claimed to be a Christian. What is it that changed your mind? Or were you never really a Christian and you just said that because you were raised with Christians or something like that? Or you just said it without thinking about what it was? Seriously what changed your mind to believe in someone who suggests things to people while they are in a trance like state?

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-10-16   8:29:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Liberator (#51)

1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

How does that apply to you Liberator. You have itching ears jumping from youtube to youtube channel hoping to find something that tickles your ears and is new. You've been duped rube.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-10-16   9:06:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Liberator (#54)

I feel I was a bit harsh on my prior post yesterday. I apologize for that. I don't consider it a "sin" to be wrong about the shape of the earth or any other academic subject. If it honestly makes sense to you then keep believing it. But you should know that the youtube vid narrator, at the bare minimum in this case, has simply not done anything close to sound research on the subject. Either than or he is, yes, intentionally using false facts to support the allegations he claims.

I contend all these flat earth videos are defective. Proving insincere intent behind the mispresentation and arguments is quite hard and not our job, as seekers of truth. But they are nonetheless defective, for whatever reason.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   9:32:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Tooconservative (#55)

A direct flight on Round Earth Airlines is possible for this route, using the two long-range airliners I mentioned above.

One thing I did notice but didn't mention on the Taiwan - LAX flights is that the east-west flights were a couple hours longer than the west-east flights. I supposed that was due to the routine air currents being easterly. In that case, the Bali-LAX leg might be possible for LAX bound flights but not for the return trip. Obviously the flight ranges you gave would be the theoretical ranges, and assume no wind at all.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   9:36:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: A K A Stone (#58)

Like I said a long time ago. It is like debating if 7 + 8 = 9. It is pointless and a waste of time and makes everyone stupider.

As I said before, if the debate is honest and real, it can yield an understanding as to why someone believes what they do.

If you go into a debate without an interest in understanding the opponent's thought processes, then you are not really debating. You are just wasting everyone's time, including your own.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   9:40:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: A K A Stone (#57)

The first real challenge to God was Newtonian physics. By reducing the universe to a predictable place, determinism became fashionable among SOME intellectuals (like Voltaire). But even the French Revolutionaries with their "Cult of Reason" were generally more reacting to the abuses of clericalism in the organized churches than the idea of God as such. And the people didn't really follow that: the Reign of Terror with its "Cult of Reason" only lasted 6 months before the "Thermidorean Reaction" ended the nonsense and chopped off the heads of the madmen. Soon enough Napoleon signed a Concordat with the Pope and the French people by and large settled back into a (regulated, less overmighty) Church. It wasn't really until Darwin and man as a sapient ape that actual belief in God himself began to decline. Looking to the Scriptures, the Hebrews and the early Christians were not contending with atheists, but with other gods and religions.

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-10-16   9:46:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Pinguinite (#63)

One thing I did notice but didn't mention on the Taiwan - LAX flights is that the east-west flights were a couple hours longer than the west-east flights. I supposed that was due to the routine air currents being easterly. In that case, the Bali-LAX leg might be possible for LAX bound flights but not for the return trip. Obviously the flight ranges you gave would be the theoretical ranges, and assume no wind at all.

It may also have to do with scheduled inspections and maintenance. They have to have factory-qualified techs to inspect and repair these airliners every so often. Typically, even in domestic flights, the planes get routed to a particular airport which has the qualified techs. When I worked for a railroad many years ago, I spent some time at the roundhouse and I observed the same thing. Some things can only be done in a hub with qualified techs on hand and you just schedule according to that requirement.

You also have required rest periods for flight crew. If your pilot has X many hours on duty, they have to be off-duty for a certain number of hours. Same for truckers, same for railroad engineers, etc. If you have, for instance, an extra hour of layover at Taipei airport to accommodate connections to other flights, that extra hour would show up in the required rest period for the pilots and air crew. Don't think that required rest and deadheading issues don't play a big role in scheduling. They do. And airlines are very rigorous about enforcing them. So are big trucking companies, bus companies and railroads.

I was interested somewhat in why the flight diverted to Alaska since I thought that Hawaii would be closer. However, there could be reasons for this. Prevailing cross-Pacific flight lanes might be one. Another might be that all flights must have an emergency alternate destination. In the event that a major airport like LAX is closed, where do you re-route the planes already in the air with LAX as their destination? In some cases, like these long trans-Pacific flights with so few airports, you can't just say that they'll all go to Honolulu because they would not be able to handle so much traffic. So it would make sense to have Alaska as an alternate for some of those flights. You have to spread them around. Think about, for instance, what you do if there is an outbreak of disease (Ebola, smallpox) and they close the airports. Or what happened on 9/11 where all air traffic gets grounded for days (unless you're a Saudi who is a member of the bin Laden family which gets you a special flight out of the country).

I would bet that factors like that would explain the flight hours being different on east-west vs. west-east flights on the same route and on the choice of an emergency alternate destination for a particular flight. But you would probably have to be an airline pilot or an airline fleet management person to know exactly what the particular reasons are for these scheduling/routing decisions are. You really have to keep in mind how much is preplanned for worst-case scenarios once you put people in the air and they must come down in X hours or they'll all die in a watery grave and all their heirs will sue your ass off after you get a lot of bad publicity that can end careers of top company officials.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   10:28:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Pinguinite (#62)

But you should know that the youtube vid narrator, at the bare minimum in this case, has simply not done anything close to sound research on the subject. Either than or he is, yes, intentionally using false facts to support the allegations he claims.

I think you know that some of these videos are deliberate frauds, not merely some accident. That Santiago-Sydney one in particular. There is no way to explain that other than fraudulent intent, the kind that gets con men sent to jail on a regular basis.

I understand being polite and giving the benefit of the doubt and not attributing fraud/malice when ignorance is as good an explanation but there are instances where only fraudulent intent offers an adequate explanation in a court of law.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   10:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: A K A Stone, Liberator, Vicomte13, watchman, Tooconservative (#60)

For years and years you claimed to be a Christian. What is it that changed your mind? Or were you never really a Christian and you just said that because you were raised with Christians or something like that? Or you just said it without thinking about what it was? Seriously what changed your mind to believe in someone who suggests things to people while they are in a trance like state?

Or were you never really a Christian...

Tell me, Stone, how do you/we qualify a "real Christian"? How do you quantify what constitutes "real" belief?

What does it really mean to "believe"? Vicomte13 just posted a bit about the meaning of the term concluding the difference with the term "faith" meaning "trust" more than "belief". I do not know about the tech defs of terms between languages. That's not my area, but I do concur that "belief", if it is to be on par with "head knowledge", regardless of whether the knowledge is correct or not, is not something that God cares about.

The pseud-documentary called "The Secret", espouses a "Law of Attraction", which claims that whatever attitude you have in your heart is what will come to fruition in your life, whether good or bad. Leaving aside the question of how true that is (I think it is credible) I do think that describes what faith really is. It's not clenching your fists with your eyes shut trying to force your brain cells into aligning with a certain intellectual understanding, kinda like the child's fable story entitled "The Little Engine That Could" which I think we all know (a story that sure, is applicable for accomplishing challenging physical tasks) but it simply not applicable when it comes to understanding God.

No, when it comes to God, understanding or acknowledging the truth doesn't come forcefully. It comes from being open minded, which you are not. You proved it by your prior post about how debating the question of 7+8=9 is a waste of time. In the same way, in your mind, debating the age of the earth is similarly a waste of time. You don't care why I and a great many people think it's far older.

Unlike you, I am open minded. I always have been, even while I claimed to be a Christian. And my open minded nature allowed me to explore beyond the Bible. As a matter of theology, I subsequently found Michael Newton's work very credible. It fully qualified God as having all the patience the Bible talks about him having, in spite of the Bible's overall claim of the end of human life being the time when God's patience runs out. I find the theology of sin to be rather "messy" and always have, even while a Christian. Messy because sin must be done with intent, and intent is simply not qualifiable in many cases, particularly with very young children. Our comprehension of right and wrong varies abstractly. Under Newton, one's actual theological understanding of God isn't important. This solves the problem of God condemning people to hell for all eternity because of their sinful nature in spite of the fact that they may never had any opportunity to even hear about this one theological message about Jesus dying for our sins even though "Jesus" a name we are not spelling or pronouncing correctly as we have the wrong language. (But somehow, God knows who we mean anyway, right, so He allows us that leeway but not any other kind of leeway?) Sure you have your explanation about how it's okay for God to condemn people -- or allow them to condemn themselves. I, on the other hand, have an explanation for how that doesn't happen at all.

If "faith" is indeed not mere head knowledge, but rather expresses actual trust, then I think I can say that I have faith that God doesn't act this way with non-Christians, and will not act that way with me.

I will point out, as I have before, that over 90% of what Christianity teaches is compatible with Michael Newton's findings. Namely in terms of loving others, the Golden Rule, putting others first before yourself, loving your enemies, embellishing virtues and quashing vices. All of that is 100% the same. The only thing different is the theology of sin (though even there, there is some overlap), a final judgment after one life, the idea that our humanity is modeled after God, and of course, the question of how many times a soul can incarnate into a human body. And yes, I think it is accurate to say that Christianity does espouse that we did incarnate when soul merged with the human body. The difference is that Christianity says this can only happen once, while according to Newton, it can happen multiple times. In that light, "reincarnation" is not such a far-fetched theology.

Michael Newton makes more theological sense. At least to me. Everything falls in place with this model. Contemporary accounts which are easy to find claim past life experiences, and the one account I've posted of several times of the young boy recalling being a pilot that was shot down and killed in WW2 being exceptionally compelling as he allegedly was even able to recall shipmate names at a veteran reunion. Sure you write that off as demons, but then again, you're close minded. You won't listen to any arguments that contradict the Bible, just as Liberator won't, it seems, listen to any arguments that the earth is round.

I may not be a Christian, Stone, but it doesn't mean I don't have faith. God is better than anything you or I can possibly imagine. You may agree with that statement superficially, and yet you nonetheless still keep God in a box, not allowing him to be anything more than what the Bible depicts. You think that under God's watch and in accordance to a design that He signed off on, the vast majority of his children will end up burning in hell for all eternity. I say, God is better than that. And under Newton, God IS better than that. Our path is more than a single lifetime. Why shouldn't it be? And I have found what I believe to be validation in my own life that I have had past lives. No, not lives I can remember consciously, but experiences in past lives that would explain certain fears I've had in this life, and fears I am overcoming. Our journey is far longer, far more sophisticated, far deeper than a single lifetime could possibly offer.

It all makes more sense.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   10:59:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Tooconservative (#66)

The main reason West to East flights are shorter is that the Jet Stream blows at 200 mph, so one's airspeed may be the same, but one's speed-over- ground is 200 mph faster West to East than East to West. Now, East to West we try not to fly directly into the most intense headwinds, but the Flight levels are only 1000 feet apart, so there's only so much you can do on the established airways. Up to a certain point, you can overcome the effect of the wind, but to do it you have to burn more fuel.

The reason the flight paths loop up like that is that they are flying great circle routes, which are the shortest distance between two points on the curved world. We're used to flat maps that distort everything. If you take a length of string and a properly shaped globe, and lay out a shortest- distance path, you'll use less string flying what looks to be an arc on a flat map. then by flying what looks to be straight on the flat map.

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-10-16   12:54:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: Tooconservative, Pinguinite, A K A Stone, Vicomte13, Deckard, Watchman, A K A Stoneredleghunter, (#55)

Too Conservative:

"Flat Earth should be considered a religious belief, much as 9/11 Truthers should be considered a religious belief."

I'll let TC's statement stand alone a moment...

Liberator  posted on  2019-10-16   13:11:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: A K A Stone, redleghunter (#70)

Sorry. I messed up the "recipient" line to the above post.

Liberator  posted on  2019-10-16   13:13:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Tooconservative, Pinguinite, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#55)

These are con men and Liberator is their rube....[blah, blah]...kooks ...nonsense... Fakebook or Twitter or whatnot [YouBoob]....The CT cultist...

Flat Earth should be considered a religious belief, much as 9/11 Truthers should be considered a religious belief....cultic.

Ok...I laughed. (sorry folks -- I'm only pinging you because TC pinged you to witness his unhinged CT about CTers.)

Q: Who exactly is "conning" who here? As has been pointed out often, the moniker "Too Conservative" is more irony than truth. By your own words, you appear to be no more "conservative" and tolerant of ideas than any other closet fascist.

Of further humorous curiosity:

In that you have comically self-anointed yourself LF's 'Captain of Gatekeeping,' the questions that must be asked:

Why do discussions, beliefs, and theories that challenge every single Powers-That-Be, institutional narrative or "Official Report" be immediately derailed, dismissed, derided, and otherwise spammed by you?

The consensus and THE truth? Everyone (other than apparently you) knows we have been and continue to be LIED TO. Whether by the Body Politic, Globalists, so-called "Science," the Media, and especially by the so-called, "Powers-That-Be" -- aka 'The Elites'. The only people who despise "Truthers" are...Gatekeepers AND those with something to hide. LIKE AN AGENDA.

People like Liberator are self-winding toys with a lot of energy to devote to helping the con men swindle them and other people as well.

Hilarious. "Swindle"? Who?? And out of what? Never mind. I'm still enjoying this inane insanity.

But speaking of "energy"....

What is it about "conspiracies theories" and challenging ALL official narratives that viscerally energizes and upsets YOU? After all, who cares about a tiny inconsequential forum of 25 posters, right?

Liberator  posted on  2019-10-16   13:50:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Pinguinite, A K A Stone, Vicomte13, watchman, redleghunter (#68)

I find the theology of sin to be rather "messy" and always have, even while a Christian. Messy because sin must be done with intent, and intent is simply not qualifiable in many cases, particularly with very young children.

Our comprehension of right and wrong varies abstractly.

(We can literally spend months or years on your post, this convo...)

But for now...

God is better than anything you or I can possibly imagine.

Yes He is! Amen!

Then again..."Sin" IS "messy." If we can agree with your statement, then now -- how exactly does sin get "cleaned up"? Or erased from our "Record"?

We obviously commit sins consciously in our heart, but even inadvertently (Ex: lust, jealousy, negativity) exactly because it is inexorably part man's nature. Even so-called "saints" cannot remain sin-less.

This evokes a logical question: HOW do WE and WHO are we -- as mere men as sinners, as created beings -- judge God??

With respect to children and "innocence," the Lord's supreme judgement considers age, comprehension of Right & Wrong, and ability to discern intent and personal responsibility. In other words, if we can't trust God, we can we trust?

Man's conscience and DNA has been hardwired to know "Right & Wrong" -- that's why acts and thoughts like murder, lying, "dishonor," are universally discouraged and regarded as "sins" within every society in history.

That the concept or act of "sin"-- why even ONE single sin is God's "death penalty" in the event of admittance into Heaven is abstract for many people. On the surface it may seem patently unfair. But is it?

How can God allow even one sin to enter (and taint) Heaven, an eternal realm of spiritual purity and perfection?

This is how and why the concept of the embodiment of spiritual purity, innocence, and perfection -- Jesus Christ, God in the flesh/as a man -- becomes our substitute, our proxy, our Salvation *for* that sinlessness.

In what is the most generous, loving act of God the Father, our Creator, He offers ALL sinners who believe on Jesus Christ's blood-sacrifice of his Innocence and Purity in Heart this divine gift of ultimate Grace. It is the greatest Gift possible -- all we have to do is open our heart and accept it.

Liberator  posted on  2019-10-16   14:39:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: Vicomte13, Pinguinite (#69)

The reason the flight paths loop up like that is that they are flying great circle routes, which are the shortest distance between two points on the curved world.

I've read about them before but never had any reason to learn more about them. It does make sense as do your remarks on the jet stream.

I did find some info on North Atlantic Tracks system for anyone wanting to learn more about airliner routing and the jet stream. Apparently, the jet stream effect and air traffic is so much greater over the Atlantic that Wiki doesn't have any matching North Pacific Tracks system. There is a system for Pacific flights but it is not as important as the Atlantic routing system. I get the impression that the prevailing winds and jet stream pattern over the Pacific are simply more of a wash where the Atlantic has a more pronounced effect on airliners. And the Atlantic system itself does get re-evaluated twice a day. The timing of flights (night or daytime) is also involved due to solar activity, it seems. Apparently it does matter a lot in flight time and fuel economy to have this Atlantic system; the Pacific not so much.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   14:51:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: Liberator (#72)

In that you have comically self-anointed yourself LF's 'Captain of Gatekeeping,' the questions that must be asked:

I am, at best, only the Junior Gatekeeper. Neil is the Master Gatekeeper as I declared in a previous post.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   14:54:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Liberator, Pinguinite, A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#73)

(We can literally spend months or years on your post, this convo...)

This is yet another instance where a fact-based discussion is dragged off into a religious discussion. "Blah-blah-blah, you're a Catlick so I don't believe your Rounder propaganda." "Blah-blah-blah, you're not much of a Christian at all so I think you're a Flattard." "Blah-blah-blah, I'm losing this argument so I'd better remind everyone that you have ideas about reincarnation."

People who want to participate on religious threads should post religious threads and wait for people to show some interest in them. It really is more than a little unpleasant to hijack threads on political or science or current events topics and use them to try to "investigate" people's religious beliefs. Or to dispute someone's private religious views publicly when they were just posting on politics or current events. Or to attack someone's religious opinions when there's no other way to win a particular argument with them.

This is an anonymous little news forum, not the Spanish Inquisition.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   15:04:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: Pinguinite (#62)

I feel I was a bit harsh on my prior post yesterday. I apologize for that...

No offense taken. But I appreciate your sentiments.

Your opinion is your opinion. Your points are still considered, valued and respected even if/when we disagree (a view we often share.)

I contend all these flat earth videos are defective. Proving insincere intent behind the mispresentation and arguments is quite hard and not our job, as seekers of truth. But they are nonetheless defective, for whatever reason.

My perspective, understanding and regard is obviously much different. Once the mask came off of our formerly "trusted" institutions, the real world became unveiled.

Even if you manage to find "defects" in half or even 90% of the assertions, that still leaves 10-50% to legitimately ponder over. Once a NASA caught repeatedly fudging is eliminated from the quotient, what is there? THIS is why NASA and their theater, their studios, their "Mars" future and obsession with "Deep Space" has been promoted so heavily during the last few years.

As a reminder, there are now 11 such "memes" that challenge institutionally presumed "truths" regarding our natural realm and "science" in a simple, brief formats.

FWIW, as to any "agenda" of seeking/sharing Truth; why shouldn't we consider seeking, then sharing truth a duty or valuable? (Though I can understand why it is not everyone necessarily wants to leave a state of bliss or know they are being lied to.)

Liberator  posted on  2019-10-16   15:30:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: Tooconservative (#76)

It really is more than a little unpleasant to hijack threads...

STOP. Before you beclown yourself into oblivion.

OH WAIT....too late. smh

Liberator  posted on  2019-10-16   15:32:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: Tooconservative (#74)

The Jet Stream occurs at certain latitudes. Look at the Atlantic. Europe is pretty far north - Paris is the same latitude as Quebec City, and Moscow is about at Hudson's Bay. The great circle routs to Europe largely follow the Jet Stream, which is pretty much on the route across to Europe.

Asian civilization is a bit more southerly, and the great circles (shortest distance) practically go over the Arctic, where there is not much in the way of winds. The routes then pretty much plunge back south perpendicular to the wind patterns, such that one does not really approach China East-to- West, but from the North East. So one is cutting across the winds, not flying directly into them. The winds are still THERE, but their most intense locations cut across the Great Circles at an angle, and thus are not blowing as nearly direct tailwinds or headwinds the way they do on the trans-Atlantic routes. It's still faster to fly FROM Asia TO America than vice versa, because of the headwinds, tailwinds, but if the winds were as direct head-on, or tail on as in the routes to Europe, it would be 6 hours faster to fly TO America from China, and 6 hours slower to fly to China from America.

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-10-16   16:55:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: Liberator (#73)

Then again..."Sin" IS "messy." If we can agree with your statement, then now -- how exactly does sin get "cleaned up"? Or erased from our "Record"?

Jesus said that God forgives men their sins against him in proportion to the degree to which men forgive other men their sins against them. The forgiving are forgiven, and the unforgiving are unforgiven. Those who judge with mercy are judged mercifully, those who judge mercilessly are judged without mercy.

In other words, do unto others as you would have God do unto you: if you forgive, you'll be forgiven. If you're a judgmental bastard, you will find God to be as obdurate.

As Jesus put it: You shall be measured by the measure by which you measured. So, to be forgiven sin, you have to forgive others theirs. That's what Jesus said. Other men say different things.

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-10-16   17:00:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: Vicomte13 (#79)

I get the impression that, on any given day, it is harder to predict the jet stream over the Pacific than it is for eastern CONUS and the Atlantic flight lanes.

There's a good animation of this at Wiki that I linked above. The Pacific region is just more chaotic and constantly in flux. The Atlantic jet stream is pretty predictable by comparison.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-16   18:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: Vicomte13 (#80)

+

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-10-16   20:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Liberator (#77)

Even if you manage to find "defects" in half or even 90% of the assertions, that still leaves 10-50% to legitimately ponder over. Once a NASA caught repeatedly fudging is eliminated from the quotient, what is there?

So you're saying that once NASA's credibility has been called into question with some issues and fabrications of whatever sort, they shouldn't be trusted. Well, shouldn't that same rule apply to flat earth advocates like this one that claims this flight came from Bali and not Taiwan? Why doesn't their credibility fall apart when they suggest wrong distances between cities, or state that the magnetic poles are in line with the geographic poles?

But yes, all allegations of flat earth can be refuted, not just 90% of them, provided they rely on factual info that can be researched. There's no way to refute someone simply claiming to have gone up in a plane and seeing a flat earth. When it comes to unsubstantiated claims, we just have to decide whether to accept them, reject them, or just set them aside as unsubstantiated.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   20:08:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Pinguinite (#68)

how do you/we qualify a "real Christian"?

A Christian is a human being who is indwelt by God's Spirit.

That's basically it.

watchman  posted on  2019-10-16   20:12:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: Liberator (#73)

Then again..."Sin" IS "messy." If we can agree with your statement, then now -- how exactly does sin get "cleaned up"? Or erased from our "Record"?

My meaning with "messy" was not in terms of dirty, soiled or unclean. I mean sin is messy theologically. That is, it's pretty much impossible to quantify whether an act is a sin or not. There is no binary switch in the human psyche that flips an LED light on in the brain that specifies a sin is in progress. Sin relies on bad intent to violate some law of God. And how do you measure intent in the mind of a 3 year old who takes a cookie without asking? Is it the commission of a sin against God of stealing or just a 3-year old acting on instinct to eat?

Consciousness varies in all of us from time to time. We are not always fully aware of why we do things or even of what's going on around us. In fact I don't think we can ever attest to being "fully" aware of our surroundings. Sometimes we are wide away and on high alert. Other times we are drousy, sick in bed or even in a coma, so the degree of our awareness of our environment and circumstances varies on a sliding scale. And since a factor in deciding whether sin occurs is how aware we are, then it necessarily also makes sin something that is measured on a sliding scale. But that's not something fundamentalist Christianity teaches, which is that sin is something you have on you, or you don't.

So it's messy. Not clean cut. Not clear. Difficult to qualify in terms of when it sin is committed. Under Newton, while there is right and wrong, virtue and vice, sin as a staining entity that condemns a soul for eternity and can only be washed away by the blood of an innocent is not a theological component. So in terms of theological modeling, the Newton model just works better as it doesn't have that messy issue.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   20:43:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: watchman (#84) (Edited)

A Christian is a human being who is indwelt by God's Spirit.

That's basically it.

With that definition, under Newton, everyone is a Christian.

Edit: Spelling that out, it's because all souls are born of God. It is that reason why we are considered children of God. It has nothing to do with our humanity (which is why evolution doesn't matter). What matters is our origins as souls, and all of us, as souls, originated from God.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-16   20:45:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Pinguinite (#86)

With that definition, under Newton, everyone is a Christian.

In Christian belief, a person is born with a human spirit. However, that human spirit does not function the way it should, and that person experiences emptiness, which then causes that person to seek to fill the void, so to speak. That person will seek and try many things to fill the emptiness, but nothing ever truly satisfies. Oh, maybe for a little while that person will find excitement, relationships, possessions, ect. but in the end, they are still empty.

However, when God's Spirit enters in, the human spirit becomes as it was intended, alive and in communion/fellowship with God. We have been created for this very reason, to have inward fellowship with God.

If, as you say, all souls are born of God, why does humanity experience such supreme emptiness? Contrariwise, why does the Christian experience such supreme fullness, peace and joy, that wells up from a source not of a persons making, but of God dwelling within?

watchman  posted on  2019-10-16   21:31:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: Tooconservative (#33)

I have regretted over the years that I didn't keep an archive of the antifreeper Clown Posse stuff. It seems that RimJob threatened them with lawsuits and they folded up and disappeared entirely.

No. JimRob had nothing to do with shutting down either Clown Posse site, first the Snitz site and shortly thereafter, the vBulletin site. The Snitz site was not brought down by a legal action. A legal action required a plaintiff who knew the real world identity of the site owner in order to effect service. The manner of the shutdown probably required a relationship with the host in the UK who pulled the plug. I believe the vBulletin site was brought down by the threat of legal action, but had nothing to do with JimRob.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-10-18   21:21:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: nolu chan (#88)

All the same, I wish I'd kept an archive of their stuff. Wildly funny but very mean.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-18   22:19:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: watchman (#87)

In Christian belief, a person is born with a human spirit.

You illustrate the paradigm difference between conventional Christian belief and the Newton model I subscribe to. Not just Christian belief but also Judaism and Islam. All 3 of these faiths tend to phrase it as though the soul or spirit is an add-on to the physical body. A person is born "with" a human spirit. This expression implies the physical body is the primary identity of the person, of who and what we are, with the soul being a lessor component thrown in as a bonus.

Under Newton, however, the soul **IS** the person, with the human body being the "add-on". It is the soul that defines the vast majority of our personal identity and even personality. Modern science has discovered DNA which has been accepted and presumed to be the defining element of all that we are, shaping our personality, favorite colors, virtues and vices. Under Newton, some qualities are indeed defined by our human structure, sexual preferences being one, but most of what we are is defined at the soul level. We are hybrid entities, mostly soul/spirit, but with a lessor human component, which would include capabilities of the human mind. The human body can be compared to a temporary rental unit instead of something that we own "for life" for the soul, and a rental unit that, once it stops working is disposed of and can be replaced at a future time.

Stated another way, we do not say that shoes have feet, gloves have hands, or that hats have heads. We say feet have shoes, hands have gloves and so on. Saying a body has a soul is the same as the former when in fact it is a soul that may or may not have, or wear, a body.

Certainly this is why fundamentalist Christians have a problem with evolution. Given the assumption that our DNA defines our full identity, it follows that if we are descended from apes, that apes define our origins. Under Newton, that is not a problem as our human nature is only incidental and does not define our true origins as souls. Under Newton, we have an alternate and more sensible explanation for why we are uniquely valuable to God over any other biological life form on earth. Fundamental Christianity, on the other hand, because it maintains our uniqueness revolves around human nature as being special and unique above all other life forms, has to impart something spiritually unique about the human body, about our DNA that other animals do not possess. It must rely on our humanity reflecting the "image of God", which is often inferred to be the human body itself.

Under Newton, that's not the case at all. We incarnate into human form because the human body allows for social interaction which permits all manner of spiritual lessons to be learned. If intelligent life exists on other planets, we could just as easily incarnate into alien bodies for the same purpose. The human race is not who we are. It's what we use, and in spiritual terms is completely disposable, as is planet earth itself.

If, as you say, all souls are born of God, why does humanity experience such supreme emptiness? Contrariwise, why does the Christian experience such supreme fullness, peace and joy, that wells up from a source not of a persons making, but of God dwelling within?

I won't attempt to explain why emotions are experienced as it is something that can't be quantified, but I will say that any emotions associated with a certain religious faith do not necessarily validate the theology of that faith.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-19   12:26:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Pinguinite (#90)

As you have lamented before that you have gone to great lengths, time and effort to explain your beliefs, only to have them hastily tossed aside, I wanted to say that I read your comment carefully, word for word, and...I actually understand your belief system much better now.

So just a point or two...

Under Newton, however, the soul **IS** the person, with the human body being the "add-on".

The Christian belief is pretty much the same. The soul (our thoughts, feelings, etc) is what defines us...that is, until our spirit comes into play. Until our spirit is reborn and comes to life we are regarded as "soulful". Being soulful is actually not a good thing. While our thoughts and feelings can lift us up to exhilarating heights, they can just as easily bring us down to devastating lows. That's because the spirit is not functioning fully, to act as a governor, so to speak. When God gives life to our spirit the human being is now finally able to exist in balance, as God planned. We become regenerated, starting with the spirit, which governs the soul, which in turn governs the body. I know I have written all of this before but it bears repeating.

Before rebirth and renewal we are known by our soul. Think of all the descriptive words: he's an intellectual, she's an emotional wreck, he's moody, she's energetic, on and on. But after rebirth we are known by our spiritual attributes (or should be): he's wise unto God, she's prayerful, he's has a servant heart, she has real peace and joy, and so on. But trust me, the soul is always trying to resume its control of us! Christians fail all the time, every day. Hence the desperate need for grace!

Certainly this is why fundamentalist Christians have a problem with evolution.

Just a word about evolution. We have a problem with evolution because we can see that life is just too complex to fit within the teachings of evolution. We believe God intentional made life so complex that we couldn't reasonably ascribe evolution to the creation. But man did it anyway!

Ping, I have more questions about your beliefs and hope to ask them in another post. I just need to think a bit more about what you have written.

watchman  posted on  2019-10-19   13:51:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Pinguinite (#90)

We incarnate into human form because the human body allows for social interaction which permits all manner of spiritual lessons to be learned.

What about evil? How does the Newton model deal with evil?

Is there a spiritual force of evil that acts upon, or in conjunction with human evil?

For Christians, of course, that would be fallen angelic beings aligning themselves with evil humans, or it might just be evil humans acting on their own.

You can't deny that there is evil in the world, and it goes beyond whatever evil is found in human nature.

And it stands to reason that such evil goes beyond the mere learning of spiritual lessons.

watchman  posted on  2019-10-19   17:20:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: watchman (#92) (Edited)

What about evil? How does the Newton model deal with evil?

On the question of demons and devils, Newton, in one of his online interviews, while he does not state in absolute terms that they do not exist, does state, in objective fashion, that in the many thousands of hypnotic sessions he's had with clients, not a single one has ever made any mention of such entities existing.

Having said that, he does in his books refer to souls having negative or bad energy, which seems to be essentially a sickness. And that bad energy and souls that emit it can have a negative impact on others. I theorize that such cases could be interpreted as demons at work.

You can't deny that there is evil in the world, and it goes beyond whatever evil is found in human nature.

I think Newton's explanation on the matter would qualify as agreement, except with your use of the adjective "human". Evil, or bad energy, arises as an indirect consequence of weakness of the soul, not from "human nature".

And it stands to reason that such evil goes beyond the mere learning of spiritual lessons.

"Spiritual lessons" are more than simply academic, head knowledge lessons. They are lessons of experience.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-20   15:37:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Pinguinite, watchman (#93)

Under the hyptnotists model. You can commit all kinds of evil with no consequences. You can rape 100 women, then cut the balls off of their husbands. Then go out an shoot up 50 schools. Then hijack the nukes and Nuke Iran until they are all dead. No matter with Newton you are still a good person there is no consequence for your actions, zero. You are just weak. Then you are still reborn or something.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-10-20   16:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: Pinguinite (#90)

Under Newton, we have an alternate and more sensible explanation for why we are uniquely valuable to God over any other biological life form on earth.

We incarnate into human form...

So there is a God in the Newton model.

What role does God play in your incarnation into human form?

Is God central to your being? Or is God on the periphery, while you, your spirit, your being is central to your existence?

If God isn't central to your existence, but is relegated to some ancillary role while you reincarnate, can you really say that this meets the definition of "God"?

It seems that you have a self centered belief as opposed to a God centered belief.

watchman  posted on  2019-10-20   20:28:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: A K A Stone (#94)

Thanks so much for the colorful illustrations.

I have stated many, many times, that in the Newton model, there most certainly is accountability for intentional actions which unjustly harm others. Absolutely there is. I'm sure it doesn't satisfy you that the accountability doesn't take the form of dumping them into a lake of fire for all eternity, but full accountability nonetheless exists.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-21   2:44:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: watchman (#95)

So there is a God in the Newton model.

In Newton's books, the actual term that is frequently cited for God is "The Source". My impression is that is the term repeatedly selected by clients to describe God but I won't swear to it. Obviously as an English, human term, it's definition is likely incomplete as, of course, English is certainly not the language of the spirit world. Rather, clients under hypnosis are using English to describe memories they are recalling of the spirit world.

I'm sure you can empathize with that sort of issue in comparing English to Greek and Hebrew versions of the Bible.

What role does God play in your incarnation into human form?

I'm not sure where you are going with that question, but it seems a very deep question and I'm not really inclined to recite the whole book.

Is God central to your being? Or is God on the periphery, while you, your spirit, your being is central to your existence?

If God isn't central to your existence, but is relegated to some ancillary role while you reincarnate, can you really say that this meets the definition of "God"?

It seems that you have a self centered belief as opposed to a God centered belief.

If you are asking about whether our purpose in life is all centered around God or centered around ourselves, I'd probably say it's centered around everyone, including God, and including ourselves. As we grow, all around us also benefit, so it's not like it's even possible to grow in a self-centered way that doesn't benefit everyone.

Consider an analogy to be the average family. The life of parents in a healthy family are pretty much centered around the children, in helping them grow and learn wisdom and knowledge. Why then would it, should it, be different between us and God? The idea that we are nothing and God is everything, which is a frequent theme in Christianity, is inaccurate. If God created us "in His image", which is one biblical description I agree with and which I think is largely how things work in the Newton model, then to say we are nothing is inaccurate. We are special. Not because God arbitrarily decided that we were special. We are special because we, as souls, were born of God. We are special because of our origin and nature. And that has absolutely nothing to do with human DNA or evolution or anything having to do with planet earth.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-10-21   3:08:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Pinguinite (#96) (Edited)

but full accountability nonetheless exists.

Made up bullshit. How would the hyptnotist know? Have some dead people come back to life? Or is he just bullshitting again? I say he is making the shit up for suckers.

You never answered why you used to say you were a christian. Then suddenly you weren't anymore. I guess you don't want to share that.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-10-21   7:45:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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