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Watching The Cops
See other Watching The Cops Articles

Title: Dallas Police Officer Who Walked into Wrong Apartment and Killed Neighbor Found Guilty of Murder
Source: Townhall
URL Source: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattv ... ound-guilty-of-murder-n2553985
Published: Oct 1, 2019
Author: Matt Vespa
Post Date: 2019-10-01 15:45:49 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 7457
Comments: 31

Former Dallas police officer Amber R. Guyger thought she had entered her own apartment. It wasn’t. Instead, she shot and killed her neighbor, which sparked national headlines. Guyger is white. Her neighbor and victim, Botham Shem Jean, was black. Guyger said she felt threatened and acted in self-defense. The jury rejected that argument and Guyger now faces 5 to 99 years in prison. There is no evidence that Guyger had any racial motivations concerning this horrible event. Yet, here’s The New York Times trying to stoke up racial tensions, which is juxtaposed with their own reporting that race was never really mentioned during the trial, though decided to add that drama in there because…why not make an already tense situation worse (via NYT):
A former Dallas police officer who shot her unarmed black neighbor in his own apartment was found guilty of murder on Tuesday, in an unusual and high-profile case that dealt with issues of race, policing and mistaken identity.

The former officer, Amber R. Guyger, who is white, was charged in the death of her 26-year-old neighbor, Botham Shem Jean, after she said she accidentally went to the wrong floor of their apartment complex, entered the unit directly above hers and fatally shot him last year.

Ms. Guyger claimed she thought she was entering her own apartment and was acting in self-defense against an intruder.

[…]

The shooting and its aftermath in September 2018 ignited protests and calls for justice, with demonstrations outside Police Headquarters and inside City Hall. At a time when other police officers have been cleared of wrongdoing in the deaths of unarmed black men, Ms. Guyger was arrested several days after the shooting on a charge of manslaughter, then released from jail the same day. After weeks of community tensions and accusations of preferential treatment for the police, a grand jury came back with the charge of murder.

[…]

Though the issue of race was not mentioned explicitly in the courtroom, the trial unfolded against the backdrop of a diverse city that is 24 percent black, 29 percent white and 42 percent nonwhite Hispanic. The mayor of Dallas, the police chief and the Dallas County district attorney are all black, as is the judge presiding over this case. Of the 12 jurors and four alternates, seven are African-American, four appear to be white and five are of other races and ethnicities.

[…]

Ms. Guyger testified that she was returning home from a long day of work when she accidentally parked on the wrong floor of the complex’s garage. As Ms. Guyger walked down the fourth-floor hallway, she said, she did not notice that anything was amiss, including the red doormat outside Mr. Jean’s door.

The door strike plate was defective and not fully latched closed, according to the defense, allowing Ms. Guyger to enter using her own keys.

When Ms. Guyger saw someone inside, she said, she drew her gun and shouted, “Let me see your hands.” She testified that Mr. Jean was walking toward her and shouting “Hey” when she fired her weapon twice, striking Mr. Jean once in the torso and killing him.

Again, highlighting things that weren't even brought up at the trial because the Left is obsessed with race. And this ridiculous news alert is quite different from the Times' actual headline: "Amber Guyger, Former Dallas Police Officer, Found Guilty of Murder in Death of Neighbor."

Now, with that aside, there are some things about this whole case that doesn't really make sense concerning Guyger. She's going to jail and it seems as of now it's very much deserved. 


Poster Comment:

Okay, copsuckers, take a deep breath and swallow it all the way to the base. ... And that is the taste of criminally reckless police getting the same taste of justice they hand out to the public every day.

I like that her teary I-am-a-victim-of-that-Negro-ice-cream-gobbler just didn't impress the jury. (2 images)

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Tooconservative (#0)

I bet she will be real popular on Cell Block C, especially with the tan klan !

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

"No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

People that say money can't buy you happiness, have never paid an adoption fee

Stoner  posted on  2019-10-01   17:14:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Stoner (#1)

They will house her in a special prison.

I think she should have been charged, and found guilty. However the most appropriate criminal charge should have been Manslaughter. recklessly causing the death of another person.

My opinion is not swayed by her profession... but by her acts.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-10-01   18:41:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Tooconservative (#0)

Okay, copsuckers, take a deep breath and swallow it all the way to the base. ...

Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article, refuse to read the rest and then whine and carp and complain to A K A.

Mr. Jury Foreman whitey will hem and haw and rant about how the guy eating ice cream was putting the cop in mortal danger with his spoon.

Neither one of them will condemn this murderous cop lady.

And that is the taste of criminally reckless police getting the same taste of justice they hand out to the public every day.

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed.

The good news here is that juries are finally starting to see through the bullshit excuse "I feared for my life.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-10-01   18:51:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GrandIsland (#2) (Edited)

They will house her in a special prison.

Let's all hope not.

She'll be a real popularity queen in the TX prison system!

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-10-01   18:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: GrandIsland (#2) (Edited)

However the most appropriate criminal charge should have been Manslaughter. recklessly causing the death of another person.

Murder and homicide charges do vary by state as we all know. And sometimes what we call murder in one state is a homicide in another or manslaughter or wrongful death in another.

Since she is convicted and can be sentenced for 5-99 years, it sounds like what most states would call second-degree murder. The most serious charge is always first-degree murder and involves premeditated murder and intent to murder someone, generally with some malice or a profit motive.

In an earlier thread with a FNC article, we learned that the jury could have convicted her of 3 different charges.

Three days after the shooting, Guyger was arrested for manslaughter. She was subsequently fired from the Dallas Police Department and charged by a grand jury.

The jury will have to decide whether Guyger committed murder, a lesser offense such as manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, or no crime at all.

So the jury had a range of charges to consider. They chose the most serious one so we can be pretty sure they were unanimous on this and that no juror tried to hold out for manslaughter. We all can recall those cases where one or two jurors held out for a lesser charge and prevailed over the rest of the jury.

My opinion is not swayed by her profession... but by her acts.

Her profession probably did hurt her. She chose to serve and took an oath to execute her duties as a peace officer to enforce public safety laws.

There can be no doubt the public would have been safer if she hadn't been given a badge.

I think the jury took that out on her. A civilian walking through the wrong door because they were sexting their fellow-worker might have gotten a lesser charge. She was likely held to a higher standard because she was a cop. It could also be the case that her defense team said things that made the jury angry, trying to get her acquitted.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   19:40:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Deckard (#3)

Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article, refuse to read the rest and then whine and carp and complain to A K A.

No doubt.

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed.

We can ruin that for him by telling him that the she-cop was a Libertarian voter. Perhaps even a Ron Paul voter.

Word.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   19:42:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Tooconservative (#5)

There can be no doubt the public would have been safer if she hadn't been given a badge.

If she grew up to be a porn star, prostitute or centerfold model, the world would have been a better place. I’ve never had much use for a chick I a uniform.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-10-01   20:03:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: GrandIsland (#7) (Edited)

If she grew up to be a porn star, prostitute or centerfold model, the world would have been a better place. I’ve never had much use for a chick I a uniform.

You have to wonder if the jury was harder on her for being a woman cop than if she were a male cop. It is possible. Maybe a male cop with the same jury would have only got the manslaughter or wrongful homicide conviction.

Hard to determine overall though. We have so few cases that we can't study them statistically. But I did think of that angle earlier. Sort of a "well, lady, if you want to be a cop, you'd better not ever shoot a citizen by mistake" kind of verdict. I like to think no jury would do that but you never know. Juries are the most dangerous and unpredictable element in the justice system.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   20:15:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Tooconservative (#8) (Edited)

"well, lady, if you want to be a cop, you'd better not ever shoot a citizen by mistake" kind of verdict.

I did respond once as a back up, to a female officer that was dispatched to check the welfare of some guy (that was a paranoid schizophrenic) that hasn’t answered the phone from his family for days, so one of his LAZY asshole relatives called the police to do what they were too fucking lazy to do... check on the dude.

Well, the dude was off his meds, so when the officer knocked on his apartment building door, the paranoid freak opened his door and attacked the officer with a golf club. She folded like a blanket... and cowered as she was being beat. I’d have shot the fucker.

Anyway... as officers arrived and ran up the stairs, he retreated behind his locked door. Needless to say, the door was kicked in, he resisted arrest... and his arm snapped as he was resisting the cuffing procedure.

The moral of the story, people in authority positions that often can’t physically handle situations as dangerous for them as Dicktard demands it handled, they either shoot too soon or give up and die.

I’ve seen it all.... it’s what happens when your police force is made up from the same group of humans every other profession is made from. A few winners, a few average players... and a whole lot of losers.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-10-01   20:26:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Deckard (#3)

Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article …
Finding that someone has posted an article with a fabricated lie is no “minor issue.” Lying is probably one of the most common wrong acts that a person can carry out.

There are many reasons why people think lying is wrong; look at them and tell me which ones best resonate with your reason for posting lies. The ones you choose will depend on your regard for ethics.

  • Lying is bad because a generally truthful world is a good thing: lying diminishes trust between human beings:
    • if people generally didn't tell the truth, life would become very difficult, as nobody could be trusted and nothing you heard or read could be trusted - you would have to find everything out for yourself
    • an untrusting world is also bad for liars - lying isn't much use if everyone is doing it
  • Lying is bad because it treats those who are lied to as a means to achieve the liar's purpose, rather than as a valuable end in themselves
    • Many people think that it is wrong to treat people as means not ends
  • Lying is bad because it makes it difficult for the person being lied to make a free and informed decision about the matter concerned
    • Lies lead people to base their decisions on false information
  • Lying is bad because it cannot sensibly be made into a universal principle
    • Many people think that something should only be accepted as an ethical rule if it can be applied in every case
  • Lying is bad because it's a basic moral wrong
    • Some things are fundamentally bad - lying is one of them
  • Lying is bad because it's something that Good People don't do
    • Good behaviour displays the virtues found in Good People
  • Lying is bad because it corrupts the liar
    • Telling lies may become a habit and if a person regularly indulges in one form of wrong-doing they may well become more comfortable with wrong-doing in general
  • Some religious people argue Lying is bad because it misuses the God- given gift of human communication
    • God gave humanity speech so that they could accurately share their thoughts - lying does the opposite
  • Some philosophers say lying is bad because language is essential to human societies and carries the obligation to use it truthfully
    • When people use language they effectively 'make a contract' to use it in a particular way - one of the clauses of this contract is not to use language deceitfully
Now, let Let me look at the first sentence as see if there is a lie.
Former Dallas police officer Amber R. Guyger thought she had entered her own apartment. It wasn’t.
This first sentence – unlike the article you posted where there was a blatant lie in the headline and the one you are still pouting about me pointing it out so strongly – is not a lie.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:03:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Deckard (#10)

… refuse to read the rest …

I will now read the remainder of the article.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:04:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Deckard, A K A Stone (#11)

… then whine and carp and complain to A K A.
No, I will never again waste my time to call a blatant lie to the attention of Stone since I have learned he doesn’t give a shit about how many lies you post on your personal LF blog by Matt Agorist.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:06:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Deckard (#12)

Neither one of them [misterwhite or Gatlin] will condemn this murderous cop lady.
I can only speak for myself to say that I accept the verdict of the jury when it found Amber Renee Guyger, 31, guilty of murder in the Sept. 6, 2018, death of Botham Shem "Bo" Jean.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:08:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: GrandIsland (#9)

Anyway... as officers arrived and ran up the stairs, he retreated behind his locked door. Needless to say, the door was kicked in, he resisted arrest... and his arm snapped as he was resisting the cuffing procedure.

The moral of the story, people in authority positions that often can’t physically handle situations as dangerous for them as Dicktard demands it handled, they either shoot too soon or give up and die.

Your story brings to mind that case a few years back where a female jailer was caught in a stairwell or hallway without a camera and she got beaten and raped.

I had to wonder at the time if her attacker got more leniency, less leniency or if it made no difference that she was a female jailer and not a male jailer (who probably wouldn't have been raped even if he did get beaten). You never know what those jurors are really thinking; you just hear their verdict.

Like I said, these cases are rare enough with women jailers and women cops that it's hard to assemble statistics or case studies to prove anything about them in general.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   21:08:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Deckard (#13)

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories …

Following the statistical average , today 23 law enforcement officers from the total of 850,000 sworn officers in America will be investigated or disciplined for misconduct. Repeating: that is only 23 out of a total of 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers. You do the percentage math.

What we have witnessed here is the criminal justice system that is made up of three separate institutions process a case from inception, through trial and now awaits punishment. This case began with law enforcement officials who investigated a crime and gathered evidence to identify and use in the trail against former Dallas police officer Amber R. Guyger. The case was presented through the court system which weigned the evidence to determine if the defendant was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. After carefully considering the jury found former Dallas police officer Amber R. Guyger guilty as charged. And now the corrections system will use whatever means at their disposal, which in his case will be namely incarceration to punish former Dallas police officer Amber R. Guyger.

It is noteworthy to mention that throughout each state of this trial process, all constitutiaonal protections existed and did ensure the the rights of accused and convicted former Dallas police officer Amber R Guyger were respected. It is comforting to know that these protections balance the requitement of the criminal justice system when it investigates and prosecutes all criminals while maintaining the fundamental rights of former Dallas police officer Amber R Guyger who was presumed innocent until proven guilty.

God Bless America and our great criminal justice system.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:10:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Deckard (#15)

and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed.
Honoring the police officers killed in 2019 and pictured when clicking here should NEVER be considered SPAM – you ungrateful and irresponsible low life sub-human Paultard bastard.

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:16:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Deckard (#16)

The good news here is that juries are finally starting to see through the bullshit excuse "I feared for my life.
Your statement is unjustified since it is not demonstrably correct or judicious and is therefore warranted and inappropriate.

I will show you why.

The list of American police officers convicted of murder:

John Baughman

Charles Becker

Laurie Bembenek

Michael Harold Chapel

Frank James Coppola

Michael J. Corbitt

Bobby Cutts

Sidney Dorsey

Louis Eppolito and Stephen Caracappa

Antoinette Frank

Stephanie Lazarus

Robert Leroy Nelson

Mohamed Mohamed Noor

Manuel Pardo (serial killer)

Drew Peterson

Craig Peyer

Gerard John Schaefer

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   21:20:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Gatlin (#10)

Finding that someone has posted an article with a fabricated lie is no “minor issue.”

Give it up freakshow. You lost.

You STILL haven't commented on the numerous lies the cops told while trying to frame an innocent man.

Which is worse - a headline that may not have come true yet and was expressing a likely outcome, or lying costumed thugs violating the rights of an innocent citizen by fabricating a bullshit story?

Don't bother answering copsucker, we all know your track record here.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-10-01   21:23:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Gatlin, Deckard (#10) (Edited)

  • Lying is bad because...
  • Lying is bad because...
  • Lying is bad because...

In general, most people are habitual liars. And they usually lie multiple times per hour. Only relatively solitary persons are not habitual and constant liars. The more you interact with others, the more of a liar you almost certainly are.

Forbes: Lying Is Good For You, 2005

I tend to be anti-lying myself and generally try to be silent rather than tell an untruth deliberately but I do recognize that lying is often the social grease that keeps people functioning. And I think I would be more popular if I made it more of a habit to lie. I do chide myself about being too priggish over white lies and drunk lies. Honesty does become more important in your primary relationships with parents, spouses, and children. A co-worker telling you a lie about a work matter or a friend spreading some lying gossip to you is rarely as important as your spouse lying to you and/or cheating on you.

The acid test of honesty is whether you tell your wife the truth about whether those jeans actually do make her ass look fat. Or the brutal truth that her ass is fat enough that she can't blame any jeans for making it look fat.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   21:24:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: GrandIsland, Stoner (#2)

I think she should have been charged, and found guilty. However the most appropriate criminal charge should have been Manslaughter. Recklessly causing the death of another person.

But she was a trained cop and her actions were intentional. She pulled her gun, aimed it, shot for effect and hit her intended target. She intended to kill or down the person she shot at.

That's a cold reading of the law, but it seems to apply. She probably didn't realize she was in the wrong apartment, but being spaced out and reacting is not reckless. It's a tough one to call.

Texas has capital murder and murder. The do not have degrees as elsewhere. Manslaughter is as you describe. I posted the statutes on another thread here.

She can produce mitigating factors at the sentencing phase.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-10-01   21:29:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: GrandIsland, nolu chan (#9)

I’ve seen it all.... it’s what happens when your police force is made up from the same group of humans every other profession is made from. A few winners, a few average players... and a whole lot of losers.

You made me consider a bit whether the jury might have been harder on her because she was considered off-duty at the time of the shooting. If she had gotten a wrong address serving an address warrant, she almost certainly would have gotten a lesser charge by making a mistake during execution of her assigned duties. Or never been charged at all, perhaps only losing her job or not even that much.

In a populated and armed state like Texas, surely there are a fair number of similar cases over the years where a woman or man has a CCW and is routinely armed and they wind up on the wrong floor of an apartment building and enter the wrong apartment and shoot someone. In such cases, I think you'd see more manslaughter and wrongful death convictions than murder verdicts (requiring intent, as nolu pointed out) that she got from this jury.

I keep thinking that she got held to a higher standard by the jury, even off-duty, because she had had police training and the jury expected her not to make such an elementary and tragic mistake. They might have excused the wrong-address-killing if she was serving a warrant. They might have convicted of a lesser charge if she wasn't a cop with weapons training and situational awareness training and experience.

[Before anyone says it, yeah, I know that cops are legally always on-duty, even when they're asleep.]

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   21:36:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: nolu chan (#20)

She probably didn't realize she was in the wrong apartment, but being spaced out and reacting is not reckless. It's a tough one to call.

IMHO, if she felt she was 100% justified to use deadly force, and that justification would have been spot on, had she actually entering her home, and mistaking what floor your on was common place, as reported by others in the building... and she wasn’t drunk or high, then I would consider that reckless.

I once investigated a dude that had narcolepsy. Was driving his vehicle around 5 pm, fell asleep at the wheel, drove through a glass foyer of a large grocery store, running over a small child... killing the child.

Driving with that condition is reckless. Zero intent to do anything unlawful. However a human life was taken. A punitive action should be taken, but imho, lack of intent should be a monumental consideration towards the length of sentence. With that said, if this bimbo should be sentence lightly, we have a few that will shit themselves here... start a whole other thread.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-10-01   21:47:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: GrandIsland (#22) (Edited)

A punitive action should be taken, but imho, lack of intent should be a monumental consideration towards the length of sentence. With that said, if this bimbo should be sentence lightly, we have a few that will shit themselves here... start a whole other thread.

I think she should get at least as much time as any other killer in a similar mistaken-location killing would get. The judge and jury should be badge-blind (even if I suspect they already were not badge-blind in convicting her on the murder charge instead of the lesser charges).

I think there is a distinction here where cops should not get any extra leniency just because someone gave them a badge. But I don't think they should get punished more for the exact same actions. And this murder conviction may, in part, reflect a higher expectation of a cop than it would for a woman with a CCW shooting someone in a mistaken-location shooting.

Justice will be best served if she gets the same sentence as any armed civilian would in a mistaken-location shooting. No more, no less. And that is often harder for a judge to achieve than it would seem.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   22:04:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Deckard (#18)

Give it up freakshow. You lost.
Nah, I will never give up pointing out the lies you post while I stand for truth.
You STILL haven't commented on the numerous lies the cops told while trying to frame an innocent man.
Unlike you and your mama here on LF. I do not respond to anything that has not been duly authenticated. Especially the edited YouTube video you are referring to.
Which is worse - a headline that may not have come true yet and was expressing a likely outcome, or lying costumed thugs violating the rights of an innocent citizen by fabricating a bullshit story?
Let me hear, see and review all available evidence and if available, the sworn testimony during a court trial then I can decide.

No intelligent person should ever view an edited video with audio and then immediately pass judgment.

Rushing to judgment is never a good thing. I will not do it and I will never be pressured into considering it. You and Stone can of course continue to do that.

Making a snap decision that can result in a wrong judgment is at all times a stupid thing to do. But sometimes more than others. For example:

8 People Who Were Executed and Later Found Innocent.

It should also be noted that since 1973, 166 people have been released from death row after evidence of their innocence was uncovered. A shocking rate of error has emerged: for every nine people executed in this country, one innocent person has been exonerated.

I never rush to judgment. When I reported for duty in the B-58 Hustler to fly at Mach 2 many time during teb years, my neighbor was my squadron commander - who later became the wing commander. During a discussion early on in our back yards, he told me to always remember that if an emergency hadn’t already killed me, then I had time to figure out how to take proper action to overcome it.

Twenty-six of the 116 Hustlers were lost to accidents and I had some occasions to follow his wise guidance. Guidance that I still today apply in my life.

Don't bother answering copsucker, we all know your track record here.
Of cours. Paultard asshole, I will answer – I will never let an opportunity pass to present rational information to you. I will try to keep my record in doing that as close to one hundred percent as possible.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin  posted on  2019-10-01   22:16:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: GrandIsland (#22)

IMHO, if she felt she was 100% justified to use deadly force, and that justification would have been spot on, had she actually entering her home, and mistaking what floor your on was common place, as reported by others in the building... and she wasn’t drunk or high, then I would consider that reckless.

I feel your reach for a just result, but I am giving a cold look at the law to explain the verdict of the jury. Aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur, does not fit with intentionally pulling her weapon, aiming and shooting. In her act of shooting, she did exhibit a conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result. Due to apparent disorientation, her decision to pull the weapon and shoot was due to a horrible mistake. But the result of the act was the intended result. She intended to shoot him but based on her mistaken assessment of the situation.

As for knowingly, she did not know the actual circumstances that existed, but she did know the probable result of her conduct and had a connscious objective or desire to cause the result.

I'm not sure what justice is in this case. Maybe it can be reached in the sentencing phase.

https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-6-03.html

Texas Penal Code § 6.03. Definitions of Culpable Mental States

(a) A person acts intentionally, or with intent, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to a result of his conduct when it is his conscious objective or desire to engage in the conduct or cause the result.

(b) A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to the nature of his conduct or to circumstances surrounding his conduct when he is aware of the nature of his conduct or that the circumstances exist. A person acts knowingly, or with knowledge, with respect to a result of his conduct when he is aware that his conduct is reasonably certain to cause the result.

(c) A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

(d) A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that the failure to perceive it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-10-01   22:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: nolu chan, GrandIsland (#25)

I'm not sure what justice is in this case. Maybe it can be reached in the sentencing phase.

This is why I went with "no more and no less than a civilian with a CCW would get under the same exact circumstances". And that is something that an appeals court in a big state could determine with some degree of accuracy.

This is why various states have sentencing commissions, why appeals courts consider the average sentences handed down for similar crimes, etc. But it can never be absolutely perfect in every case. Perfect justice is an illusion.

Of course this is, in part, why Lady Justice is always depicted as blind. But she does have nice hooters.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   22:41:01 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Tooconservative (#26)

Of course this is, in part, why Lady Justice is always depicted as blind. But she does have nice hooters.

Isn't that the statue that Ashcroft had covered up with drapes when he was AG in 2002?

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-10-01   22:47:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Deckard (#27)

Isn't that the statue that Ashcroft had covered up with drapes when he was AG in 2002?

Ah, I see you recognized those famous and ample titties of DoJ's topless Lady Justice instantly.

What tipped you off?

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   22:59:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Tooconservative (#28)

What tipped you off?

I'd have to go with cup size.

Not that big - 34B I'd guess.

Alternate text if image doesn't load

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-10-01   23:05:27 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Deckard (#29)

Woh, I hadn't even noticed that former A.G. John Ashcroft was in that photo at all. I was distracted, I guess. I did recognize him in the After photo though.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-10-01   23:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Deckard (#3)

" Gatlin will find some minor issue in the first sentence of your article, refuse to read the rest and then whine and carp and complain to A K A.

Mr. Jury Foreman whitey will hem and haw and rant about how the guy eating ice cream was putting the cop in mortal danger with his spoon.

Neither one of them will condemn this murderous cop lady.

Gatlin will then post reams of "good cop" stories and spam there thread with pictures and names of cops who have been killed. "

LOL !!!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." (Will Rogers)

"No one ever rescues an old dog. They lay in a cage until they die. PLEASE save one. None of us wants to die cold and alone... --Dennis Olson "

People that say money can't buy you happiness, have never paid an adoption fee

Stoner  posted on  2019-10-02   22:50:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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