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Title: The Very Book The Government Does Not Want You To Read Just Went #1 In The World
Source: Collective Evolution
URL Source: https://www.collective-evolution.co ... read-just-went-1-in-the-world/
Published: Sep 18, 2019
Author: Arjun Walia
Post Date: 2019-09-20 07:27:10 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 14267
Comments: 88

In Brief

  • The Facts:

    Edward Snowden recently released a book titled "Permanent Record." The US government is now suing the publisher of the book for not giving the CIA and the NSA a chance to erase classified details from the book.

  • Reflect On:

    What is the government really protecting? Are they protecting the well being of the citizenry or are they protecting immoral, unethical, political, corporate and elitist interests?

George Orwell’s 1984 is a classic book depicting a populace ruled by a political regime that persecutes individualism and independent critical thinking as “thoughtcrimes” that must be enforced by the “thought police.” This party seeks power above all, and, through the propagandist Ministry of Truth, presents the people with their version of truth and casts away all other information and opinion. Sound familiar?

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This is exactly what’s happening today right in front of our eyes. The “ministry of truth” comes in the form, at least on social media, as FakeNews watchdogs. These are entities that are flagging information that threatens corporate and political interests and labels it as “fake news” when a lot of it, is in fact, the complete opposite. Since when does an authoritative entity like the government have to step in and decide for the people what is real and what is not? Are people not capable of examining sources and determining this for themselves? These fake news watchdogs have some interesting sponsors. One of these sponsors, for example, is NewsGuard. They are funded by Clinton donors and big pharma, with ties to the CFR. You can read more about that entity here.

Companies and government agencies who are threatened by information also seem to be employing an “army of bloggers, surrogates, trolls, and bots on Twitter, Facebook, and by email” (Robert F. Kennedy Jr.) to try and sway discussion and brainwash people. We here at Collective Evolution have been experiencing them as well.

The world knows why the hunt for Julian Assange was ongoing for so long, it’s because he leaked secrets and exposed those who keep them. He exposed the lies, corruption and deceit that represents the backbone of the Western military alliance and the American empire. He exposed, in the words of John F. Hylan, former Mayor of New York City, the “real menace of Republic”, the “invisible government, which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation.” He exposes the ones “who virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes.” (source)(source)

He exposed immoral and unethical actions that have no basis and justification, he is a hero.

The same thing goes for National Security Agency (NSA) whistleblower Edward Snowden, who leaked classified documents regarding the scope of the US governments surveillance programs, which is and was huge. He is and was not the first, William Binney did the same, along with Thomas Drake and many others.

Keep in mind that this is a global mass surveillance program. Snowden recently released a book about it, and more.

In the book, Snowden goes into great detail about how he risked everything to expose the US government’s system of mass surveillance. In it, he reveals the story of his life, including how he helped to build that system and what motivated him to try to bring it down.

Mass surveillance, facial recognition, etc, are justified by the national security state for the purposes of combating terrorism, for example. But, what does the connection between terrorist organizations and the US government say about these programs? If the US government itself, or factions of it, are arming these terrorists, creating them, and carrying out false flag events blaming them on terrorism in order to justify infiltration of a country for ulterior motives as well as a heightened the national security state which involves mass surveillance, this means that their justification for these programs is a complete lie. So what’s the real reason for them?

This is well known, a few years ago current democratic presidential candidate Tulsi Gabbard introduced the stop arming terrorist act, which would stop the U.S. government from using taxpayer dollars to directly or indirectly support groups who are allied with and supporting terrorist groups like ISIS and al Qaeda in their war to overthrow the Syrian government. (source)

As far as false flag terrorist attacks go, many believe the chemical gas attacks in Syria were orchestrated by the western military alliance in order to justify the infiltration of the country. The evidence for this is quite grand. 9/11 is another example many people believe was false flag terrorism.

‘Protecting National security’ has now become an umbrella term to justify immoral and unethical actions.

Perhaps Snowden’s book sheds light on that. I have yet to read it.

William Binney is a former high ranking intelligence official with the National Security Agency (NSA). He’s had quite the go, starting in 2002 when he let the public know of a system ( ‘trailblazer’) intended to analyze data carried on communication networks (like the internet). He exposed the agencies eavesdropping program and has faced harassment from the FBI, NSA and more. He has been in and out of the court room ever since he decided to resign and blow the whistle.

Binney hasn’t stopped, one of the highest-level whistleblowers to ever come out of the NSA. He is now saying:

“At least 80% of fibre optic cables globally go via the US, this is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores. The ultimate goal of the NSA is total population control.” (source)

The Takeaway

At the end of the day, the US government suing the publisher of Snowden’s book is only bringing more attention to the truth of mass censorship and that this global elite is losing power. The more the global elite respond the way they are, with this like the mass censorship of information, alternative independent media outlets being shut down, and jailing people like Julian Assange, the more they hurt their own interests… which is inspiring for humanity as we awaken.

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#32. To: sneakypete (#15)

When you have a security clearance you sign documents promising you will never reveal any information you gain due to the access your clearance gives you,and agree to the punishments outlined on the papers you sign.

This applies to Snowden.

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?

If you don't want to go to prison,either don't sign the papers and take the job,or stay silent.

So. Break the law. Murder people. It's ok cuz, "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS", eh? Worked well in the Reich.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-22   9:58:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: sneakypete (#17)

So they are cleverly keeping it out of circulation by allowing Amazon to sell it via mail order?

They apparently haven't much choice in the matter. Unless they openly assassinate him.

It's not as though the reptilian global spy agencies are "cleverly" and secretly wanting Snowden's book published -- is that what you're inferring?

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-22   10:01:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Liberator (#11)

They still don't want the book read and info shared, do they?

I have no idea. It does appear, however, that they don't want classified information released.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-09-22   11:28:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: misterwhite (#34)

...they don't want classified information released.

I concur.

But additionally, they also don't like their entire operation exposed as illegal, immoral, dishonest, and abuse of authority and resources.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-22   11:32:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Gatlin, A K A Stone, Deckard (#31)

Please permit me to give you an example …

Okay. Let’s say that you [A K A Stone} want to come to work for me [Gatlin] and before I hire you, I have you sign a written agreement [contact] whereby you formally and legally agree that you will never tell anyone anything about me. But after you sign that agreement [contract] and come to work for me, you learn some things about me that you want to tell everybody about.

Maintaining privacy about personal matters are one thing....

It's when acts and events start adversely affecting others.

Would this mythical case of this written/oral contract (or oath) also necessarily exonerate you from extenuating circumstances -- like committing treason, hurting people, and committing other highly illegal, immoral acts?

By demanding oaths, isn't one justifying a "Code of Honor" among thieves, rogues and scoundrels?

THIS is one reason God has explicitly frowned upon taking oaths to men in Scripture. THEY become authority over God's Law.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-22   11:44:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Liberator (#35)

But additionally, they also don't like their entire operation exposed as illegal, immoral, dishonest, and abuse of authority and resources.

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-09-22   11:56:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Gatlin (#31)

I understand that you are saying the DOJ is using a law to prohibit Snowden’s “freedom of speech.” Although he admittedly is in full violation of the non-disclosure agreement [contract] he signed with the agencies. Let me see – how shall I properly express my take on this to you …

No matter how you cut it they are using a law to silence him.

No search warrants shall be issued except describing the exact place to be searched and what they are searching for with the permission a a judge.

Well they don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls. They were breading the law. Snowden is a brave patriot for exposing the treasonous government.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-09-22   12:01:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: misterwhite (#37)

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

You are hinting that he said what we already knew.

Well if that is the case then you should shut up we already knew what he said.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-09-22   12:02:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: misterwhite (#37) (Edited)

Yep. We never would have known all that without this book.

Well to be honest, most people still did NOT believe Snowden's revelations -- given the MSM and goobermint tag-teaming smear of Snowden as a malcontent and rat who "jeopardized America's national security."

THIS BOOK DOCUMENTS an entire operation of what was/is still an illegal, immoral, dishonest polcy and abuse by authority and resources.

Q: Do you believe there is good moral standing, legal standing and reason to surveil every single American's movement and life of every America? And if so, by what Constitutional Law or common sense reason?

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-22   12:03:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: misterwhite (#34)

It does appear, however, that they don't want classified information released.

Yeah they don't want their confidential crimes exposed. Snowden exposed treason and the people responsible should pay the heaviest price.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-09-22   12:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: A K A Stone, Gatlin (#38)

...They don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls.

They were brea[k]ing the law.

Snowden is a brave patriot for exposing the treasonous government.

Truth.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-22   12:05:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: A K A Stone (#41)

Snowden exposed treason

Where's THAT headline? Let's get those details out there into the public arena. Where are they?

misterwhite  posted on  2019-09-22   12:57:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Tooconservative (#30)

No, you were clear enough. Gatlin was merely "apologizing" strategically as a way to continue to try to advance his own argument that you are profoundly wrong (but you have every right to be wrong in a way so mysterious that Gatlin cannot possibly even comprehend that you might hold a reasonable fact-based opinion).

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology". If he isn't wrong about the matter, why should he apologize at all? Why should you accept this condescending "apology" if Gatlin continues to say he doesn't understand why he is "apologizing"?

This business of "I don't know what I'm sorry for but I sincerely apologize for everything" is never a sincere apology in any way. It is a way to placate an impulsive child or a vindictive hysterical woman or a senile person.

Gatlin is humoring you, probing for weakness. That's all his "apology" means. It's the sort of thing a con man makes their living from.

Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of humanitarians!

CZ82  posted on  2019-09-22   13:02:55 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: A K A Stone (#38)

Well they don't have a warrant to listen to everyone's calls. They were breading the law.
While hat is true about “everyone’s” calls, your old buddy Rand Paul said that the NSA is empowered to spy on Americans’ communications without a warrant.

Huh – you say.

Well, it turns out that Rand Paul is absolutely correct.

Let’s understand how that is …

Rand Paul was asked about President Trump’s accusation that President Obama ordered the NSA to wiretap his calls. The Kentucky senator expressed skepticism about the mechanics of Trump’s specific charge, saying: “I doubt that Trump was a target directly of any kind of eavesdropping.” But he then made a broader and more crucial point about how the U.S. government spies on Americans’ communications — a point that is deliberately obscured and concealed by U.S. government defenders.

Paul explained how the NSA routinely and deliberately spies on Americans’ communications — listens to their calls and reads their emails — without a judicial warrant of any kind:

The way it works is, the FISA court, through Section 702, wiretaps foreigners and then [NSA] listens to Americans. It is a backdoor search of Americans. And because they have so much data, they can tap — type Donald Trump into their vast resources of people they are tapping overseas, and they get all of his phone calls.

And so they did this to President Obama. They — 1,227 times eavesdrops on President Obama’s phone calls. Then they mask him. But here is the problem. And General Hayden said this the other day. He said even low-level employees can unmask the caller. That is probably what happened to Flynn.

They are not targeting Americans. They are targeting foreigners. But they are doing it purposefully to get to Americans.

Paul’s explanation is absolutely correct. That the NSA is empowered to spy on Americans’ communications without a warrant — in direct contravention of the core Fourth Amendment guarantee that “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause” — is the dirty little secret of the U.S. Surveillance State.

[…]

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/13/rand-paul-is-right-nsa-routinely-monitors- americans-communications-without-warrants/

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin  posted on  2019-09-22   20:42:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Liberator (#32)

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

How do you know the government didn't apply for,and get a search warrant?

You don't. There IS such a thing as classified search warrants.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-09-22   22:02:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Liberator (#33)

It's not as though the reptilian global spy agencies are "cleverly" and secretly wanting Snowden's book published -- is that what you're inferring?

No,I am merely stating the obvious. The book and the classified info in it are already in the public domain,and you can't unring a bell.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-09-22   22:03:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Liberator (#32)

EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

How the HELL are they doing that?

To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?

To the Federal Government,and NOBODY MAKES you take the oath or sign the paper. You are free to walk away if you want.

So. Break the law. Murder people. It's ok cuz, "JUST FOLLOW ORDERS", eh? Worked well in the Reich.

When did you turn into a hysterical drama queen?

One word for you,"Midol".

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-09-23   1:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Liberator (#40)

Q: Do you believe there is good moral standing, legal standing and reason to surveil every single American's movement and life of every America? And if so, by what Constitutional Law or common sense reason?

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-09-23   1:31:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: sneakypete (#16) (Edited)

You don't think the Feebs didn't spy on recent German immigrants during WW-2? Hell,they put Japanese people who were born as US citizens in internment camps for the duration of the war.

They put a significant number of Germans in America in the same kind of internment camps for the duration of the war. Interestingly, they were kept confined longer than the Japanese were after the war ended in 1945. These were the German American Bund which is a nice name to use instead of American Nazi Party (which was later established as a party in the Fifties).

Wiki: Internment of German Americans
Shortly after the Japanese strike on Pearl Harbor, some 1,260 German nationals were detained and arrested, as the government had been watching them.[26] Of the 254 persons not of Japanese ancestry evicted from coastal areas, the majority were ethnic German.[27] During WWII, German nationals and German Americans in the US were detained and/or evicted from coastal areas on an individual basis. Although the War Department (now the Department of Defense) considered mass expulsion of ethnic Germans and ethnic Italians from the East or West coast areas for reasons of military security, it did not follow through with this. The numbers of people involved would have been overwhelming to manage.[28]

A total of 11,507 people of German ancestry were interned during the war, comprising 36.1% of the total internments under the US Justice Department's Enemy Alien Control Program.[29] By contrast, an estimated 110,000–120,000 Japanese-Americans were forcibly relocated from the West Coast and incarcerated in internment camps run by the US War Department's War Relocation Authority.

WarHistoryOnline: The Internment Camps of Germans in America During WW2
... After Germany surrendered, many of the internees were released and sent to Germany. Others remained in the camp. It was not until 1948 that the last “enemy alien” was released – three years after the war had ended.

None of these internees was ever found guilty of a crime or proven to be a threat to national security.

Those who were released back to their homes were obliged to sign a secrecy agreement regarding the time they spent in the camp. They were under threat of being returned to Germany if they breached the terms of the agreement. Staff who had worked at the camps also had to agree to secrecy. ...

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-09-23   10:07:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Tooconservative, A K A Stone (#30)

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-09-23   10:13:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Deckard, A K A Stone (#51)

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

Look uo the “Columbo Method” … Never mind, just read this version:
The key to the Columbo Method is to remember that all you really know is that the facts are conflicting. You don’t know for sure what else might be going on. So you carefully approach the situation in a humble way pleading lack of knowledge for if you approach the situation with an accusatory tone, assuming that the person is either incorrect or lying, then they most probably will get defensive. They will then check out mentally from the conversation and you will get nowhere. When you politely use the Columbo Method, it is more likely that the person will courteously open up and you get your point across better. All the while leaving the relationship intact.
Uh, let me see now, Deckard.

Hmmm…

Where were we?

Please help me correctly understand.

I think you said that “gaslighting” is a “very apt description of Gatlin’s tactics.”

I am a very old man, and I sometimes don’t get things straight.

Did I get that right?

Well, if that be so – then I guess that my “Columbo Method” needs more practice.

Obviously …

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin  posted on  2019-09-23   10:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Deckard (#51)

Gatlin is gaslighting you with his manipulative so-called "apology".

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

Look up the “Columbo Method” … Never mind, just read this version:
The key to the Columbo Method is to remember that all you really know is that the facts are conflicting. You don’t know for sure what else might be going on. So you carefully approach the situation in an humble way pleading lack of knowledge for if you approach the situation with an accusatory tone, assuming that the person is either incorrect or lying, then they most probably will get defensive. They will then check out mentally from the conversation and you will get nowhere. When you politely use the Columbo Method, it is more likely that the person will courteously open up and you get your point across better. All the while leaving the relationship intact.
Uh, let me see now, Deckard.

Hmmm…

Where were we?

Please help me correctly understand.

I think you said that “gaslighting” is a “very apt description of Gatlin’s tactics.”

I am a very old man, and I sometimes don’t get things straight.

Did I get that right?

Well, if that be so – then I guess I need to practice on my “Columbo Method” needs more practice

Obviously … Edit: Since I am so generous this morning – I will let you in on another of my techniques. I always start my effective price negotiations with “ I am an old man on fixed income and …”

Depending on the price and profit margin involved, that usually will get me five to ten percent right from the start.

Then I move ever so slowly forward with a hesitantly speech pattern using a modified “dumb” Columbo Method and work towards twenty five percent in my favor. Or, as close as I can get. I do often time use the “walk away” knowing full well they need to sell more that I want to buy.

I Have now shared with you, two secrets this morning. I will tell you more of my secrets. But it will cost you – dearly.

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin  posted on  2019-09-23   10:57:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Gatlin (#53)

I will tell you more of my secrets.

Keep your perversions to yourself freakshow.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-09-23   11:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Gatlin (#53)

“ I am an old man on fixed income and …”

Depending on the price and profit margin involved, that usually will get me five to ten percent right from the start.

I'm a contractor and I hear that line I think hmm. I'll charge them a little more for trying to con me. They pay. lol.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-09-23   11:55:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: sneakypete (#49)

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

So if the government wants to do something unconstitutional. They just make you sign a paper so if you find out you can't tell anyone.

That's a pretty fucked up view of how things should work imo.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-09-23   11:57:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Tooconservative (#50)

They put a significant number of Germans in America in the same kind of internment camps for the duration of the war.

I know. The difference is they were recent immigrants,not citizens. 2nd and 3rd generation Japanese went into the internment camps.

Nobody likes to talk about this,but the truth is the Japanese who had US citizenship should be happy about this because they had MP's protecting them from attack. I had a friend whose father enlisted in the 442nd Regimental Combat Team,a unit composed entirely of Japanese Americans,and rumored to have been the most decorated US Army unit of WW-2.

His uncle left home to enlist too,but was caught and beaten by his fellow Chicago citizens on the way to the enlistment office,and spent the rest of his life wearing diapers and being spoon fed.

The German Americans were lucky in that respect. The recent ones couldn't be told from any other American if they didn't have an accent or kept their mouths shut. The Japanese Americans weren't that fortunate.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-09-23   12:04:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: A K A Stone (#56) (Edited)

So if the government wants to do something unconstitutional. They just make you sign a paper so if you find out you can't tell anyone.

No. You obviously have never had a security clearance,and don't understand the concept.

MOST military/national defense secrets are more related to not letting the enemy know what you know because if they did,it would be easier for them to track down the source in their country that supplied you with this information.

There are also METHODS OF OPERATION that are secret because you don't want the enemy to know how you operate to keep them from catching and executing your agents,who may be soldiers,diplomats,embassy workers,CIA agents playing the role of tourists,etc,etc,etc. They mostly "mine" the citizens of the nation you are investigating,and those citizens are providing the intelligence and they need to be protected. In most cases if they were exposed,they would die.

I used to have a Top Secret Crypto security clearance while in the army,and held a Secret security clearance at various times while working with the Army in an advisory role.

The whole time I held security clearances,I did not know of ONE single damn thing or operation that was being used against America or American citizens. Never even heard rumors. Such things are under the domain of the FBI,and they are VERY jealous when it comes to guarding their secrets. Even they are overseen and kept slapped into line by their political masters. Sure,some agent or tech geek sometimes goes wrong,but when they do,the Feebs go after them like a hungry dog after a nice raw steak.

In the entire history of the world,the only nations that had to build walls to keep their own citizens from leaving were those with leftist governments.

sneakypete  posted on  2019-09-23   12:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: A K A Stone (#55)

“ I am an old man on fixed income and …”

Depending on the price and profit margin involved, that usually will get me five to ten percent right from the start.

I'm a contractor and I hear that line I think hmm. I'll charge them a little more for trying to con me. They pay. lol.

I know there is Financial Exploitation in Aging

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin  posted on  2019-09-23   13:13:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Deckard, A K A Stone, Deckard, sneakypete, misterwhite, tooconservative, CZ82, Gatlin, all (#0)

Nothng personal here; Just my observation and opinion:

This post & thread appears to have struck clear dividing lines of cynicism or support.

The respective subjects of "911" and role of gubmint Alphabet Agencies and military (in the name of "national security") seem always to evoke polarized opinion. Why is that? (Yes, I have my own theory)

The degree of support/criticism the respective two subjects receive appears to be based primarily on the fundamental trust OF Government, loyalty TO IT, and supposed function OF IT and its purported "mission" of "national Security" -- regardless of its proper role, lack of transparency, evolved political agenda, and especially, regardless of honesty, responsibility or ethics.

The side from which respective relative position of support or criticism seems to be dependent on whether one has been in the employ of government or military to some major extent. That same side and perspective also appears to be determinate factor in whether one is more open and flexible to "Truther" issues, OR remains steadfast and more rigid in their respective loyalty to institutional/governmental narratives (as they present it.)

What say you?

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:14:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Deckard (#54)

I Have now shared with you, two secrets this morning. I will tell you more of my secrets. But it will cost you – dearly.

Keep your perversions to yourself freakshow.

I realize that is your embarrassed way of saying that you can’t pay for them.

It’s okay – I understand …

Salute,
Gatlin

Gatlin  posted on  2019-09-23   13:17:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Gatlin, Deckard (#61)

You're giving the distinct impression that you are OCD-sociopath. Maybe it's time to scale back on the hyper-ridiculousness.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:27:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: sneakypete (#46)

How do you know the government didn't apply for,and get a search warrant?

You mean all 325 million of them?

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:28:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: sneakypete (#46) (Edited)

There IS such a thing as classified search warrants.

Yes.

In theory.

Q: Since when do all 325 millions Americans warrant 24/7 surveillance? The Patriot Act and NSA -- are you familiar with both of their alleged "mission"?

Are you familiar with the degree of carte blanche to which they routinely justfy and ignore the US Constitution?

Are you someone who supported the absurd the airport strip-searches of gramma, nuns, and WW2 vets (See Joe Foss) while ignoring obvious suspects (see Mooses.)

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:34:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: sneakypete (#47)

I am merely stating the obvious. The book and the classified info in it are already in the public domain,and you can't unring a bell.

Have you read the book?

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:35:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: sneakypete (#48) (Edited)

ME: "EVEN when the gubmint is clearly illegally VIOLATING the 4A ("unreasonable search & seizure")?

YOU: How the HELL are they doing that?

Do you really wonder *how* the NSA and various Alphabet Agencies are engaging in 24/7 surveillance and recording of our every PRIVATE phone and internet conversation? Or even watch our movements (via ubiquitous street cameras?)

Seriously?

ME: "To whom is an Oath made? To certain people in a rogue Gubmint? Or on behalf of the US Constitution?"

YOU: "To the Federal Government,and NOBODY MAKES you take the oath or sign the paper. You are free to walk away if you want."

Sure -- no one has a gun to the others head. But that's not the point. Any oath or signed paperwork regarding silence may indeed be mutual. These are the TWO points you missed (as well as a bonus point):

1) Illegal/rogue/immoral/unethical acts & missions may STILL be performed on behalf of these ruling overlords/commanders. WITH IMPUNITY. In complete disregard to justice OR actual security.

2) To whom does one owe allegiance? In support of US Constitution and to the citizenry (who actually pay a serviceman's salary)? OR, to a specific military/secret organization?

3) There is an obvious reason "Black Ops" is a thang. Some might consider the Coup against President Trump a less horrific JFK example.

When did you turn into a hysterical drama queen? One word for you,"Midol".

Hey, the "Midol" line was mine first.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:53:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: sneakypete (#49) (Edited)

[Snowden] is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

Complete and utter BS.

...."damage the security of America if it [the illegal targeting & surveillance of all 325 million Americans for no good reason, having NOTHING to do with National Security] became general knowledge."

FIXED.

Liberator  posted on  2019-09-23   13:58:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: sneakypete, Deckard (#49)

Snowden is NOT a regular citizen whose mail is being read. He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

Exactly so. He signed an NDA that did not differ substantially from the NDAs that employees sign in the private sector to keep company secrets in confidence in perpetuity unless they are released by the employer to publish something. The difference with Snowden compared to people like Stormy Daniels violating an NDA is that DoJ/NSA/CIA all have a lot of power to do something about someone violating their NDAs.

Clearly, Snowden and his publisher knew the DoJ was very likely to take this action. A few of the books that were published by SEAL Team 6 members about the (alleged) Bin Laden assassination in Pakistan were subject to this but I don't think they actually sued to recover the profits. There was at least one book by a former CIA employee, maybe 5 years ago, that was threatened with a similar lawsuit. So Snowden and publisher both had cause to know that DoJ would likely take this action.

According to the copyright page of the book:

First published 2019 by Metropolitan Books, Henry Holt and Company, LLC
First published in the UK 2019 by Macmillan
This electronic edition first published in the UK 2019 by Macmillan
an imprint of Pan Macmillan 20 New Wharf Road, London N1 9RR
Associated companies throughout the world

So the publisher is Metropolitan, one of five divisions of the big Holt publishing empire, and on their website they brag about publishing Lefty books specifically, mentioning a number of books by Chomsky. So it is a publishing house focused on Lefty books. Perfect for Snowden.

Snowden and the publisher must have known the DoJ would try to seize the proceeds. So they probably put a pile of royalty money in an escrow account overseas, possibly in a Russian bank, and have an agreement beforehand with the bank to pay out or transfer a certain amount to Snowden based on officially published book sales from Metropolitan for a certain period of time. There are likely some banks in Russia who don't care about U.S. sanctions at all, given how many oligarchs and businesses are under sanctions already. America already sanctioned Sberbank, VTB, Gazprombank, Russian Agricultural Bank, and VEB and we got the EU to join in. So they have nothing to lose as far as we're concerned.

I bet Snowden is getting paid, no matter what DoJ is doing. This is pretty much his only chance for a real payday for the rest of his life. We should assume that the Russkies have already pumped all the info he had from him by various means. They may not have but I think they have. It's just too valuable to them to leave him alone. Snowden has info they could not otherwise obtain or that would cost them billions in espionage costs to get. His familiarity with NSA software alone would be very valuable to them. So that is probably how he's earned his keep to stay in Russia. But he wants a nice fat bank account in Western money or cryptocurrency just in case his Russia gig ever goes south.

This may be a DoJ case where they prosecute only to uphold their NDAs with all their other contractors. If they fail to pursue Snowden and can be demonstrated in court as not enforcing their NDAs to the maximum, it could impede any future claims they have to enforce their NDAs on other employees or former employees or contractors. So this may be a pro forma case, not one intended to actually stop Snowden from getting his payoff from these book sales. It's to stop the next Snowden(s) and show the courts that they are serious about enforcing their NDAs.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-09-23   16:50:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Deckard (#51)

I had to look that up - very apt description of Gatlin's tactics.

I'm surprised you hadn't heard it before, given the articles you post. Gaslighting has become something of a buzzword in certain circles in recent years.

In truth, I should have called Gatlin's #FakeApology something like "a gaslit apology". Clearly, it was manipulative and deliberately so but it was not technically gaslighting which is used by psychopaths or con men to make a person doubt their own memory or understanding of events. But the #FakeApology does reveals that Gatlin either thinks he's a lot smarter than the rest of us or that Gatlin thinks we really are total morons. Probably the former since it is more self-flattering for Gatlin to think we are smart but that he is so much smarter in online debate tactics. If it were the latter, it isn't as much fun for Gatlin to try to play people that he considers to be morons; it's more rewarding emotionally to think you're much smarter than your devious but inferior opponents/rivals.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-09-23   17:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: A K A Stone, Gatlin (#59)

Gatlin: I know there is Financial Exploitation in Aging …

There's a pretty ugly suggestion there that you are exploiting and preying upon your elderly customers.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-09-23   17:30:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: Liberator (#60)

Well, the government came out with a report that concluded "this is what happened".

The conspiracy theorists said "no it didn't".

I'm going with the guys with the facts and figures.

misterwhite  posted on  2019-09-23   18:32:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: sneakypete, Liberator (#49)

He is a man that AGREED to not disclose any classified information he would gain access to after ACCEPTING a job that gave him access to classified information that could damage the security of America if it became general knowledge.

The actual issue at litigation is the legal requirement for Snowden to have submitted his proposed publication to the agency, and to have obtained prior permission to publish it. As Snowden did not request permission, permission was not granted. The agency did not seek to prevent publication, but it has sought to prevent any financial income from the publication going to the benefit of Snowden.

As for the government acquisition of telephone and internet information, the 4th Amendment issue is muddied in that the information, or access to the information, was generally given to the government by entities such as AT&T or Facebook, or others. AT&T facilities (located at Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, New York City, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington, D.C.) were in partnership with the NSA. In this circumstance, it is a bit difficult to maintain that the NSA searched and seized.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-09-23   18:43:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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