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Title: Fire Did Not Cause 3rd Tower’s Collapse on 9/11, New Study Finds
Source:
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth
URL Source: https://www.ae911truth.org/wtc7?fbc ... L0IDQYyB2d7IvRLn0Qb0pH4Q3b91iA
Published: Sep 4, 2019
Author: AE911Truth staff
Post Date: 2019-09-05 06:15:20 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 11246
Comments: 69
On September 11, 2001, at 5:20 PM, the 47-story World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed into its footprint, falling more than 100 feet at the rate of gravity for 2.5 seconds of its seven-second destruction. Despite calls for the evidence to be preserved, New York City officials had the building's debris removed and destroyed in the ensuing weeks and months, preventing a proper forensic investigation from ever taking place. Seven years later, federal investigators concluded that WTC 7 was the first steel-framed high-rise ever to have collapsed solely as a result of normal office fires.
Today, we at Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth are pleased to partner with the University of Alaska Fairbanks (UAF) in releasing the draft report of a four-year computer modeling study of WTC 7’s collapse conducted by researchers in the university's Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering. The UAF WTC 7 report concludes that the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11 was caused not by fire but rather by the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.
Download the Report
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#4. To: misterwhite (#3)
I have yearly chimney fires that get hotter than that (1000-2000F). The flimsy pipe just glows red without any warping (it is scary though!). Think about that massive beam hidden deep in the structure. You'd have to heat that beam (probably coated in fire retardant?) way beyond cherry to cause any movement. The joint, which is either welded or riveted, would then have to fail. The joint is designed not to fail, especially with mere warping. Multiple inspectors signed off on the joint as it was created. The problem with heating, cutting or melting steel is that as you heat the surface, the heat is wicked away by the rest of the steel. Those beams in sky scrapers are massive, probably minimum 3/4 inch plate (although I don't have the exact specs). The possibility of getting any uniform heat into that beam by normal building fire is, well, impossible. That's why I listen when the engineers speak. They know the exact specs, load capacity, deflection under every temperature, wind velocity, etc. You name it, they know it.
The fire burned for 7 hours. "The flimsy pipe just glows red without any warping" Was it supporting 100,000 tons?
That's an important factor. The building is an integral unit, all the pieces of the building supporting itself as one rigid structure. All that tonnage load would be distributed evenly, by architectural and engineering calculation. Also, for one beam to move, first, there would have to be space for it to move to. And I'm not talking about some space created by a fire. Think of how much effort it would take to extricate that beam and replace it. A huge void around the beam would need to be created. Other massive beams that are connected to the beam would need to be disconnected. In other words, the beam and joint that we are told failed was not just sitting out in space, with a toasty fire heating it up to melting point. I say melting point because somewhere along the beam or joint there would need to be extensive cutting taking place.
It would soften and sag, causing the end to pull away from the support column.
A new study by Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven. Perfect. One look at that headline in the sidebar and I knew what it was. I must be psychic.
Someone should attend and record the meetings of these Nine-Eleven whack jobs. I'll bet it's a riot. And then there are the after-hours orgies. Dancing Israelis and jubilant Muslims (which Donald Trump saw personally), they can cater to every kink.
Study: Fire Did Not Cause 3rd Tower’s Collapse on 9/11. Video:
Fake news huh? The Five Dancing "Israelis" Arrested On 9-11
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. There is no need to because Deckard will be along shortly to represent them. Edit - Uh, I now see that he is already here. Salute,
At every step of the 'controlled fire' experiment they tell you that it does not replicate any situation in the WTC complex. In fact they tell you important information that confirms what I basically knew: the WTC beams were massive, they were covered in fire retardant, the jet fuel was burned up in seconds. The toothpick beam they show in the video is not connected at either end. It is given maximum room to move (warp). The fire was controlled and focused directly under the beam. Not even close to being a true test of the WTC, but it looks convincing to the average American citizen looking for answers. You should listen carefully to what the architects/engineers say (at great peril in losing their careers)
Users (the few that remain) of this site can always count on a healthy dose of 9/11 or flat earth kookery. We are like the One Who Flew Over The Kookoo’s nest or the political forums.
What we need is a new theory of 9/11 and the Flat Earth. Not just 9/11, not just a flat earth - they've both been done to death - but a grand theory to unify the two into one giant Kookarama. That would really put LF on the map. We could get dozens of new
Maybe Stone could change the LF title to Lithium Forever.
Catchy. I think we should sell lithium mineral water over the counter. It would likely reduce a lot of demand for other pharmaceuticals. The history of the lithium mineral water sales from upstate New York is interesting. That was quite a booming little industry back in the day.
Have you shifted from WTC7 to WTC1 & WTC2? OK. Those fires burned for 1-2 hours, not four minutes, the impact of the plane knocked the fire retardant off the beams, and the average building fire reaches temperatures of 2,000 degrees without jet fuel. The jet fuel exacerbated the problem by starting fires on multiple floors simultaneously.
With you, misterwhite, I was talking wtc7 Gatlin's video deals primarily with wtc1&2 (Gatlin pinged me to his vid) Wtc7 received no plane hit or jet fuel
This is true. This is true. This is true. That is true. Since I am a very old man somewhat set in my ways, you will perhaps be ever so kind as to forgive me if I completely ignore the guidance you recommended with regard to any prudent future actions by me. For, during the course of many long years I have found – as others have also found on numerous occasions - that experts are not always right. As I said, I am an old man and I have poor eyesight. Therefore, perhaps I cannot fully capture what is going on in videos I am presenting below. I can however, increase the font size on my computer to read that information which is being presented to me. With this in mind, can you please explain to me exactly what I am missing when it is said that “fire” caused the collapse of a 17 story building in Terhran Italy. Another video … Thank you ever so kindly for this… It seems that you keep saying what did not cause the collapse of the old 7 World Trade Center based on you “listening carefully” to the “expert” architect and engineer comments. Well, this old man believes that if those architects and engineers were as damned smart as you wish me to believe they are, then after 18 long years those expert architects and engineers who are “at great peril in losing their careers” can finally both definitively and decisively – and with their great authority – say conclusively what caused 3rd Tower’s Collapse on 9/11. Can they? If they cannot, then if you don’t mind, I will continue holding to the belief that … Salute,
You mean, without having a Con-Ed power station with diesel fuel in the large storage tanks? Or just questioning the quality of building materials used in major NYC construction projects from time to time? NYC is known for building projects of sub-standard construction overall, part of its longstanding reputation for corruption in the building and sanitation trades.
Good points – ALL. You are quickly right on top of this and your addition was most reinforcing. I did edit out the jet fuel remark because it may have been misleading since no jet fuel was involved in this fire. Salute,
WTC 7 had multiple generators on multiple floors with fuel lines running all over, including some pressurized lines. The Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven rarely want to discuss those in detail.
So what happened with the third airplane? Did it hit the WTC7, or missed?
Yet another reason I like you ...
Couldn't find Terhran Italy... Do you mean the Plasco Building in Tehran, Iran. I doubt that the Plasco Building even needed a fire to cause it's collapse. Have you ever watched videos of construction in places like Iran? They don't even know how to operate cranes in Tehran.
Now, who is responsible for the destruction of Notre Dame?
Liberals are like Slinkys. They're good for nothing, but somehow they bring a smile to your face as you shove them down the stairs.
I dunno, you tell me. Sounds like you already have a strong opinion.
They seem to know how to hang homosexuals in public from them. I'm not sure why their appalling human rights record is so overlooked. Probably because the Interracial Wonder Boy (0bama) cut a deal with the butchers of Tehran. It's our duty to bring regimes like that to their knees, not placate their nuclear ambitions and give them tons of money to lead the entire region in going nuclear.
Ha ha ha. It is YOU who "already have a strong opinion"! I do not know what really happened. But since you are so smart, please explain me why the third building was destroyed. What exactly caused it?
Do you mean the Plasco Building in Tehran, Iran. For it was long ago during my youthful days gone past that I educated myself to never tie things together by “assessing associations in observational studies” – as you may be trying to do here. An association does not prove that one thing caused the other since there is no true cause-and-effect relationship evidence of proof. Therefore, watching “videos of construction in places like Iran” will not tell me anything about how the Plasco Building was constructed. With all this in mind, it is until I am shown convincing evidence otherwise, that I must continue to believe the official finding as stated: “The fire was determined to be the sole cause of Plasco’s collapse.” Salute,
Since you're doing your passive-aggressive Grand Inquisitor routine, why don't you explain it to us? You obviously have some very strong kook mojo going about it.
A blacksmiTh has a forge Anvil - hammer He makes meTal objecTs OuT of iT The volcano - Tower Torch - GraviTy Made a molTen mess Of The TT's Bldg # 7 Too Love If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
Here we have the same old bleating sheep and "official" government fairy-take shills weighing in with their ignorance. I can understand why you left.
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. If you REALLY understood, you’d fucking leave too... and hide out on a few acres of wooded land, far from big bad gov, located in the corner of the flat earth.
Therefore I read a journal review by the Hong Kong Polytechnic University, International Journal of High Rise Buildings, Preliminary Modelling of the Plasco Building. Conclusion: The Plasco collapse is only SIMILAR to the WTC collapse. The final sentence of the conclusion is that the similarities have NOT actually been found and significant further studies are required. Of note: the authors believe that it is extremely important for structural engineers to analyze major failures with great care and dedication, such as is routine in other industries, in order to promote robustness/resilience of buildings that have similar vulnerabilities. That is why all of our architects and engineers need to study the WTC collapse and be given our utmost support. The Institute of Northern Engineering is conducting such a study and are at this moment reaching conclusions that differ from the official report.
As I said, I do not know what happened there. It seems, you do not know either. But you are ranting and raving for some reason.
I thought you were the hysterical one, judging by your posts.
A nice cop out.
I stated: The word “preliminary” immediately grabbed my attention. With that aside, I ask that you please go right ahead and read to me. Which you did: Of note: the authors believe that it is extremely important for structural engineers to analyze major failures with great care and dedication, such as is routine in other industries, in order to promote robustness/resilience of buildings that have similar vulnerabilities. That is why all of our architects and engineers need to study the WTC collapse and be given our utmost support. I find that I have become most inquisitive over time so as to become inordinately curious about things I am told by other people. I may well attribute this to my advancing age. It is because of my inquisitive nature that I would like to read directly from the source the “conclusion” – which you summarily read to me – in its entirety and consider the context. And – forgive me, please, with all respect – not have you try to tell me what it said. I was going to ask you to cite your source, but in the meantime through diligent research I “therefore find I also read a journal review” titled Preliminary Modeling of Plasco Tower Collapse by authors from Department of Building Services Engineering, the Hong Kong Polytechnic, Hong Kong, China. I read it a wee bit differently than what you told me. I will share with you what I read by presenting a direct quote and citing the source: The authors believe that it is extremely important for structural engineers to analyze major failures with great care and dedication, such as is routine in the aerospace industry. This will help the profession learn from these failures and help improve the robustness and resilience pf the buildings and urban structures that may similarly vulnerable through appropriate strengthening and retrofit. While this particular analysis is not conclusive at this initial stage of investigation, the authors feel that the structural system of the Plasco Tower has considerable similarity to that of the WTC Towers specifically the two floor systems, and collapse mechanisms described by Lange el al. (2012) could very well be responsible for the collapse. However, this so far has not been found and significant further studies are required. Uh, did you catch where it stated that “significant further studies are required.” I am pretty sure that means before any scientific conclusions can be reached, right? You went on to say: Thank you for letting me know this and I ask that you please let me know the “end results” when the INE “completes” the study they are currently “conducting” and can definitely support definitive conclusions after the have finally “reached” those conclusions. In the meantime, and after considering all the information – or the lack thereof – that we have exchanged, I sincerely hope you can understand how I must continue holding to the my belief that:
I may well attribute this to my advancing age. Looks about the same to me. The only difference is that you pasted the whole conclusion, while I provided a simple summation of the conclusion. I did that primarily because it was late and I couldn't figure out how to copy/paste from a pdf. That's why I gave you the exact title of the journal review...so you could find it and read it for yourself. Well, your advancing age hasn't spared me from your biting wit, Mr. Gatlin! I say let's encourage more studies. There has been a vilification of anyone who would dare challenge the "official report". Engineers are funny creatures...they have their reputations, and their inquisitive minds. On a lighter note, I think you like gospel music and the mandolin. Maybe you have heard these boys before, but lately I think of you when I play this particular album of theirs... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q...uQH_UIHGQfty_y87uEXtGLdNp
There can possibly be no more beautiful way to begin a Sunday morning than with an in-home worship started with great music. And what better way is there to get off of the boring subject of buildings burning down. Your music takes me back to the days of my childhood when I used to hear … I'll catch up with you another day. And in the vernacular of a police radio call, this is the "Old Major" signing of for now with a "Ten Dash Seven Alpha." Good Day to You, Sir … Hand Salute,
Archtect: Well, I finished the design of the building. It meets all the engineering standards and will cost $10 million. Buyer: Ah. But will it survive a fully fueled 767 crashing into it at 600 mph, extensive structural damage, and fires burning out of control for 7 hours? Architect: Sure. But that will bring the cost to $100 million. Still want the building?
Archtect: Well, I finished the design of the building. It meets all the engineering standards and will cost $10 million. Buyer: Ah. But will it survive a fully fueled 767 crashing into it at 600 mph, extensive structural damage, and fires burning out of control for 7 hours? Architect: Sure. But that will bring the cost to $100 million. Still want the building? Hand Salute,
Comments (45 - 69) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestThe steel doesn't need to melt, just soften, and it does that around 1,000°F (500°C).
#5. To: watchman (#4)
The problem with heating, cutting or melting steel is that as you heat the surface, the heat is wicked away by the rest of the steel.
#6. To: misterwhite (#5)
Was it supporting 100,000 tons?
#7. To: watchman (#6)
Also, for one beam to move, first, there would have to be space for it to move to.
#8. To: Deckard, misterwhite (#0)
#9. To: misterwhite (#1)
#10. To: misterwhite, Watchman (#7)
(Edited)
misterwhite: Uh, yeah, it did.
Watchman: An uncontrolled fire will not touch steel, which just begins to melt at 2500F.
misterwhite: The steel doesn't need to melt, just soften, and it does that around 1,000°F (500°C).
Watchman: The problem with heating, cutting or melting steel is that as you heat the surface, the heat is wicked away …
misterwhite: The fire burned for 7 hours.
Watchman: The flimsy pipe just glows red without any warping
misterwhite: Was it supporting 100,000 tons?
Watchman: That's an important factor.
Watchman:Also, for one beam to move, first, there would have to be space for it to move to.
misterwhite: It would soften and sag, causing the end to pull away from the support column.
#11. To: Tooconservative (#9)
Dancing Israelis
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#12. To: Tooconservative (#9)
(Edited)
Someone should attend and record the meetings of these Nine- Eleven whack jobs.
Gatlin
#13. To: Gatlin (#10)
#14. To: Tooconservative (#8)
A new study by Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven.
#15. To: GrandIsland (#14)
Users (the few that remain) of this site can always count on a healthy dose of 9/11 or flat earth kookery.
kooks members posting here with something like that.
#16. To: Tooconservative (#15)
#17. To: GrandIsland (#16)
#18. To: watchman (#13)
the WTC beams were massive, they were covered in fire retardant, the jet fuel was burned up in seconds.
#19. To: misterwhite, Gatlin (#18)
(Edited)
Have you shifted from WTC7 to WTC1 & WTC2?
#20. To: watchman, misterwhite, GrandIsland (#13)
(Edited)
At every step of the 'controlled fire' experiment they tell you that it does not replicate any situation in the WTC complex.
In fact they tell you important information that confirms what I basically knew: the WTC beams were massive, they were covered in fire retardant, the jet fuel was burned up in seconds.
The toothpick beam they show in the video is not connected at either end. It is given maximum room to move (warp). The fire was controlled and focused directly under the beam.
Not even close to being a true test of the WTC, but it looks convincing to the average American citizen looking for answers.
You should listen carefully to what the architects/engineers say (at great peril in losing their careers)
“… on September 11, 2001, the structure was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building's internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm, according to FEMA, while the 2008 NIST study placed the final collapse time at 5:20:52 pm. The collapse began when a critical internal column buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of a rooftop penthouse structure at 5:20:33 pm. The collapse made the old 7 World Trade Center the first tall building known to have collapsed primarily due to uncontrolled fires,[7] and at the time, the only steel skyscraper in the world to have collapsed due to fire” [At That Time].
Gatlin
#21. To: Gatlin (#20)
With this in mind, can you please explain to me exactly what I am missing when it is said that “fire” caused the collapse of 17 story building in Terhran Italy – an uncontrolled fire that occurred with no jet fuel even involved.
#22. To: Tooconservative (#21)
Gatlin
#23. To: Gatlin (#22)
#24. To: Tooconservative (#8)
(Edited)
I must be psychic.
#25. To: Tooconservative (#23)
The Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven ...
#26. To: Gatlin (#20)
Terhran Italy
#27. To: Deckard (#0)
#28. To: A Pole (#24)
So what happened with the third airplane? Did it hit the WTC7, or missed?
#29. To: watchman (#26)
They don't even know how to operate cranes in Tehran.
#30. To: Tooconservative (#28)
Sounds like you already have a strong opinion.
#31. To: watchman (#26)
Couldn't find Terhran Italy...
Yes. I doubt that the Plasco Building even needed a fire to cause it's collapse.
Expressing you doubt does in no way supply any scientifically supporting evidence. Have you ever watched videos of construction in places like Iran?
No, and I have no need to in the situation here. They don't even know how to operate cranes in Tehran.
Ahem, neither do they in New York City.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tChi81KfMa8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qoUjMBbbhQ
Gatlin
#32. To: A Pole (#30)
But since you are so smart, please explain me why the third building was destroyed. What exactly caused it?
#33. To: A Pole (#30)
(Edited)
boris
#34. To: Liberator, (#25)
The Nutjobs For Nine-Eleven ... Yet another reason I like you ...
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#35. To: Deckard (#34)
I can understand why you left.
#36. To: Gatlin (#31)
Expressing you doubt does in no way supply any scientifically supporting evidence.
The principal conclusion of our study is that fire did not cause the collapse of WTC 7 on 9/11, contrary to the conclusions of NIST and private engineering firms that studied the collapse. The secondary conclusion of our study is that the collapse of WTC 7 was a global failure involving the near-simultaneous failure of every column in the building.
#37. To: Tooconservative (#32)
Since you're doing your passive-aggressive Grand Inquisitor routine, why don't you explain it to us?
#38. To: A Pole (#37)
But you are ranting and raving for some reason.
#39. To: Tooconservative (#38)
I thought you were the hysterical one, judging by your posts.
#40. To: watchman, misterwhite, GrandIsland (#36)
(Edited)
Expressing your doubt does in no way supply any scientifically supporting evidence.
You replied: Therefore I read a journal review by the Hong Kong Polytechnic University, International Journal of High Rise Buildings, Preliminary Modelling of the Plasco Building.
Conclusion: The Plasco collapse is only SIMILAR to the WTC collapse. The final sentence of the conclusion is that the similarities have NOT actually been found and significant further studies are required.
5. Conclusions
The Institute of Northern Engineering is conducting such a study and are at this moment reaching conclusions that differ from the official report.
“… according to FEMA, while the 2008 NIST study placed the final collapse time at 5:20:52 pm. The collapse began when a critical internal column buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of a rooftop penthouse structure at 5:20:33 pm. The collapse made the old 7 World Trade Center the first tall building known to have collapsed primarily due to uncontrolled fires, and at the time, the only steel skyscraper in the world to have collapsed due to fire.”
Salute,
Gatlin
#41. To: Gatlin (#40)
a wee bit differently
#42. To: watchman (#41)
Gatlin
#43. To: Gatlin (#40)
That is why all of our architects and engineers need to study the WTC collapse and be given our utmost support.
#44. To: misterwhite (#43)
That is why all of our architects and engineers need to study the WTC collapse and be given our utmost support.
And even then – there may be no guarantee because the scale of the destruction in the 9/11 attacks initially puzzled engineers, who had expected the buildings to survive airplane impacts. "In September 2005, the National Institute of Standards and Technology published the results of its investigation into the collapse. The investigators did not find anything substandard in the design of the twin towers, noting that the severity of the attacks was beyond anything experienced in buildings in the past. They determined the fires to be the main cause of the collapses, finding that sagging floors pulled inward on the perimeter columns, causing them to bow and then to buckle. Once the upper section of the building began to move downwards, a total progressive collapse was unavoidable.”
Gatlin
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