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Title: High School tennis stars score religious liberty victory in Washington state
Source:
The Daily Sheeple
URL Source: https://www.thedailysheeple.com/hig ... y-victory-in-washington-state/
Published: Aug 31, 2019
Author: Sean Walton
Post Date: 2019-09-01 12:24:22 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 10180
Comments: 185
Siblings Joseph & Joelle Chung Two high school tennis stars scored a religious liberty victory in Washington state after being kicked off the court for their faith. The Chung siblings, Joseph, 15, and Joelle, 17, both Seventh-day Adventists, a Protestant denomination that observes Sabbath on Saturday as recorded in the Bible, sued the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association (WIAA) earlier this month after Joelle was disqualified from her final state tennis postseason competition because she doesn’t play on Saturdays. The Chung family, represented by Becket, a religious liberty law firm, filed a motion to withdraw their federal suit on Tuesday after WIAA agreed to add religious observance to its reasons for missing games without being penalized. Paul Chung, Joelle’s father, told “The Ingraham Angle” earlier this month that his daughter, who was undefeated on the court, valued her commitment to God more than tennis. “She was disappointed that she couldn’t help the team but she shouldn’t have to choose between religion and playing tennis,” Chung said. Joe Davis, Becket counsel and attorney for the Chungs, told Fox News Friday “it’s an important win for religious student-athletes in Washington and sets a favorable precedent nationwide.” “It’s common sense that Sabbath observers shouldn’t be excluded from any postseason sports competition at all just because of the hypothetical possibility of a schedule conflict somewhere down the line—and after the rule change, they won’t be.” WIAA denied her family’s request for a religious accommodation last season because WIAA’s previous rules stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. WIAA had no exception for sincerely-held religious beliefs. “For the Chung family, keeping the Sabbath holy is a serious commitment,” Becket, a religious liberty law firm, wrote in a complaint filed Aug. 6. The Chungs, both playing for William F. West High School, had conflicts with the WIAA’s state championship schedule, which included a Saturday. While Joelle had to sit out her final postseason play, Joseph, a rising sophomore, was set to have the same fate this year before the rule change. “We’re hopeful that the WIAA will take the next step and eliminate the schedule conflicts altogether, as the law requires,” Davis added. Delivered by The Daily Sheeple
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#66. To: misterwhite (#62)
And that invalidates any insistence that amateur league high school sports reasonably accommodate requests for respecting religious observance obligations which occur on weekends completely outside the official hours of school attendance. You're on far weaker legal grounds than you can apparently imagine.
Why progress to the regulation of sodomy if you can't even agree on keeping the sabbath holy? Apparently, you have some sodomy issue you're trying to work out. "Well, if you Yankees don't give in to sports on Saturday, we'll all start buttfucking each other just to get revenge on you." Where's the connection in your mind between sodomy and remembering the sabbath, to keep it holy? You don't have a fetish about committing sodomy on the sabbath, do you?
Well, against fellow-Christians in the same church or even denomination. The apostles, while railing against divisiveness and false teachers in local churches that they had established by missionary work, were not shy about calling out the false teachers and nominal Christians in their midst. They did so by name and left a record which is still in the New Testament today. The New Testament never says anything about never suing anyone for any reason. It does discourage, in Paul's voice primarily, taking a fellow-Christian from the local church to court for any reason. So, no sale. What you're saying here is not even an argument really.
What bothers me is them using the threat of a lawsuit to make changes to long-established rules (which they initially accepted) simply to accommodate their personal needs. Maybe you should consider whether anyone should ever stand at your back in a similar situation. Or whether they'll just dismiss it all because they don't want to "accommodate" misterwhite's "personal needs". Are you sure you really want it that way? How many defeats do traditional types have to suffer before they recognize that there is some value in solidarity against those who hate them and their entire way of life and will, if not stopped, impose those values on everyone in society? It's a threat far greater than "Osama will win if we let these Adventists win and force schedule changes so no puny high school tennis gets played on Saturday. Or Sunday. Defending the Saturday sabbath is a rare opportunity. Both sabbath days should be protected against secular intrusion.
So you think the holiest thing you can do is let them deprive the Adventists of their Saturday sabbath on the road to depriving you of your Sunday sabbath? Or are you just confident that they'll mostly leave the Sunday as the default Sabbath in America, at least in your region? I don't grasp why you are so opposed to the idea of any sabbath-keeping. Because you do sound opposed.
I think it's shallow, hypocritical and, frankly, non-Christian of me to say I'm observing the tenets of my faith by forcing others to make changes to accommodate me.
What?? Deprive?? I'm not depriving anyone of anything. As I said before, she's free to observe her Saturday sabbath and not participate in sports. "I don't grasp why you are so opposed to the idea of any sabbath-keeping. Because you do sound opposed." I'm not opposed to the idea of sabbath-keeping. I'm impressed that she observes it and I support her observation of it. But I oppose her use of the legal system to force the school system to void long- standing rules (rules she was aware of) simply to accommodate her fanatical interpretation of what constitutes "working" on the sabbath.
Are you saying I have to keep the sabbath holy? I think I see your problem. And it is your problem.
I'm not opposed to Sabbath keeping...which btw means many different things to many different people. No one is stopping the girl from keeping her Sabbath. I just don't want her to impose her Sabbath on all the other athletes who have trained very hard to compete. Let HER sacrifice her tennis for God, no? I also don't believe she has the Biblical right to take non-Christians to court in order to impose her belief on them. Are her teammates going to think Christianity is a good thing after she drags them through the courts? She gets to ruin others so she can play tennis when it is convenient for her?
So you're fine with the idea of abolishing Sundays or any other day as a day of worship, reserved for religious observation? The world you know was changed to enforce Sunday as a sabbath and it still prevails as a (much diminished) custom even in 2019. Damn, I didn't think you'd just admit to it outright. You're kind of a sabbath-hater. You've displayed nothing but contempt for these two Adventists who just want to play tennis at school on schooldays, not weekends when they expect to be left in peace to worship as they please. I hate to tell you but that is no cloak of righteousness you're wearing.
They're school sports. Participating in them requires school attendance. Why should it not be expected that these sports - for which children have to attend the public schools daily in order to participate - hold their competitions on scheduled school days. The extracurricular part of school, the sports, are being allowed to invade the weekends and the worship habits of Christians (Adventists and others), Muslims and Jews. Or is the only Sabbath-keeping you're willing to tolerate the people who observe Sunday as a sabbath and then only if the local high school hasn't scheduled some puny game or tournament outside school hours?
These two Adventists intend to make it your problem. I couldn't be more pleased. Anti-sabbath Christians don't appeal to me. I have more respect for Christians who respect their own sabbath and the sabbaths of others. But thanks for your honesty.
You seem to think the only solution is to exclude certain participants, people who aren't so popular or so common in your neck of the woods. Like Adventists, Muslims, Jews for instance. Why not hold all school sports during school hours? Or at least as an event after a scheduled school day? Is it important enough to you to have weekend high school sports that you'll deprive (some) Christians, Jews and Muslims from participation in those sports if they refuse to stop observing their religious holidays and obligations? I'm surprised at how fast people are to slam the door on non-Sunday sabbatarians. Or even on sabbath-keeping on Sunday, if push comes to shove with high school or church league sports events. Fortunately, I can cheer on these two courageous Asian Adventists in their tennis victory. They won far more in court than they could have won if they'd won every scheduled match in the season. I hope they keep suing the WIAA and the school(s) so they can win again and pound the lesson home.
How other Christians follow their faith is none of my business. I don't understand why it's yours. She was free to follow her faith. No one interfered with that.
You mean, like, after school? After the scheduled school day? Outside of school hours? Perhaps even off school property? Well, gosh, if that's OK with you, then why not on a Saturday or Sunday? What's the difference?
Other than this girl, who was complaining? 800 schools in the WIAA and she was the only one? Say 50 kids from each school involved in the WIAA program. That's 40,000 kids. ONE complained? Doesn't seem like she's all that common in HER neck of the woods.
It's not a sacrifice if nothing is lost. It's an inconvenience. She wants her cake and to eat it, too.
And she followed it right into a courtroom to demand her God-given right to worship as she pleases, a right explicitly recognized under constitutional law. Not just when some puny high school sports association tells her she can worship.
Since it is school-sponsored and school-staffed, most people think it is appropriate to hold regular games in school facilities which are better equipped to deal with handicapped people, insurance, parking, etc. You really can't suggest a better venue than the school itself. Preferably during school hours but directly after school hours otherwise.
How much more hatred and contempt can even you muster against these children who just want to honor their commitment to keep the sabbath holy? It's like you really resent them venomously. As surprising as it may be, did you know that at one time, schools did not have intramural sports at all? Schools were provided to educate the public, not provide sports venues. You know, back when we achieved 98% adult literacy by eighth grade even among the most rural uneducated people.
I'll send you cash if you post, "Let them eat cake." followed by "Off with their heads." It would be a dream come true.
Who took away her God-given right to worship as she pleases?
One child. Out of 40,000.
You can believe whatever you want, just don't force your belief on me.
The weekend tennis Nazis, that's who.
But aren't you trying to force your belief that it's fine to schedule school events on a Saturday (or Sunday) even if it conflicts with a student athlete's solemn commitment to their faith? Are these sports about you and other adults or are they about youth having a chance to participate in their high school sports programs on an equal footing without being singled out because of their professed religious beliefs? I'm for The Children on this.
Which children? The other children have rights, too...to be free from religious beliefs/obligations that they do not hold.
And they are free. As long as they don't insist on forcing other children to participate in sports on days that school is not in session. These are school sports here. Therefore they are subject to equal opportunity and non-discrimination laws. Maybe if you want your kids to play sports on Saturday or Sunday, you'd better just send them to a private school where you are not subject to all the same laws that the public schools are subjected to. I'm sure the Adventists would be sad to see you do that but they are not going to back down. And they have winning lawyers. And you have no standing with the court. You've got an opinion but they got a win in court and one that may set precedent across the nation.
They WERE free. Now they must observe, by force of law, the Adventist Sabbath.
Not at all. They are free to observe or not observe anything they like on the weekends. Because the school is closed on the weekend and there will be no school sports events while the school is closed for business on the weekend.
Mission accomplished.
There is no Sabbath. That was the Mosaic covenant, exclusively for Jews in Israel, which we are not. End of subject.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Supreme Court, I expect, will uphold freedom of sport over against enforced respect for anybody's "Sabbath".
I would have to agree with Vic on this one.
For the third (fourth?) time, no one is forcing her to play. She's free to worship any time she wants.
There you go again.
I kinda thought you'd say so. And what about Jesus teaching those same commandments repeatedly? Commandment 2 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8). "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam...to eat things sacrificed to idols" (Revelation 2:14). "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow...My servants to...eat things sacrificed to idols" (Revelation 2:20). Commandment 3 "pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name" (Matthew 6:9). "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Matthew 12:31). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,...blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts ... blasphemy, pride, foolishness" (Mark 7:20-22). Commandment 4 "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Matthew 12:11-12). "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath" (Matthew 24:20); there would be no reason to pray this if the Sabbath was not going to be in existence. "And He said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath'" (Mk 2:27); this verse tells all who will see which day is the Lord's Day. "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue" (Mark 6:2). "And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read" (Luke 4:16). "Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths" (Luke 4:31). "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath...Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?" (Luke 6:5,9). "But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath...The Lord then answered him and said, 'Hypocrite...So ought not this woman...be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?'" (Luke 13:14-16). "'Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'...And they could not answer Him regarding these things" (Luke 14:3,6). "are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" (John 7:23). Commandment 5 "For God commanded saying, 'Honor your father and your mother' and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death'" (Matthew 15:4). "Honor your father and your mother" (Matthew 19:19). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mark 7:10). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Honor your father and your mother" (Luke 18:20). Commandment 6 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Matthew 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20). Commandment 7 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery'. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Matthew 5:27-28). "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 5:32). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery, and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Matthew 19:9). "You shall not commit adultery" (Matthew 19:18). "...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:21,23). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12). "Do not commit adultery" (Mark 10:19). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18). "You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20). "'Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery'...And Jesus said to her...'sin no more'" (John 8:4,11). "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation" (Revelation 2:22). Commandment 8 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...thefts...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "You shall not steal" (Mat 19:18). "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer', but you have made it a den of thieves" (Matthew 21:13). "...thefts...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:22-23). "Do not steal" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:... Do not steal" (Luke 18:20). Commandment 9 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. But I say to you, do not swear at all" (Matthew 5:33-34). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...false witness...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "You shall not bear false witness" (Matthew 19:18). "Do not bear false witness" (Mark 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not bear false witness" (Luke 18:20). "And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Revelation 2:2). Commandment 10 "Do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on" (Matthew 6:25). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...These are the things which defile a man" (Matthew 15:19-20). "...covetousness...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mark 7:22-23)."I have kept My Father's commandments" (John 15:10). So there is that, written in red letters which you like. Notice how often Jesus said, "You know the commandments..." in everyday conversation. Nor did He ever say anything like, "You know the commandments but those will only count against you until after I'm crucified." Nothing that Jesus said indicated that there would soon be an end to keeping the commandments, either for Jews or anyone else. I still think these two Adventist youth are the greatest thing among Christian youth in decades. They're inspiring, very spiritual litigants.
You can't be serious. Schools are closed on Saturdays and Sundays. They have no curricular activities on either Saturday or Sunday in this country. They may assign homework but that could be done in school, riding a schoolbus, on the non-sabbath weekend day for sabbatarians and on either or both days for kids who aren't religious. The schools have no right to intrude upon students' lives and their religious practice on the weekend when the schools are officially and legally closed. The Court would rule for the Adventists decisively on the basis that the school made no attempt to accommodate their schedule of extracurricular sports toward the schedule of sabbath observance on weekends when the schools are officially closed to all students. And they are discriminating against Saturday sabbath keepers like Adventists and Jews (there are still a few Jews on the Court) but not discriminating against Sunday sabbath keepers. Nor did they discriminate against both types of sabbath keepers equally. Any good lawyer could drive a truck bomb through the school's legal defense. I think it would lead to a unanimous Court verdict in favor of the Adventists. Unfortunately, the sports leagues now have a heads-up on this issue and have seen the result of the first court case and so they may try to tiptoe around it a bit, fearing litigation and attracting some plaintiffs who will take it all the way to the Supreme Court. Maybe you just don't like treating all students equally, regardless of religion. Or maybe you think the current system of discriminating against Saturday sabbatarians works for you and others like you so you don't want any changes. I can't stop laughing at all the hijinks and weird dodges my own alma mater came up with in recent years, trying to deny that they'd run out of having enough boys to play 11-man football. In the end, it's been an utter humiliation for them. And they've discovered what the other small towns around them actually think of them. It's a comedy gold mine there in Hooterville.
Then, since the idea of keeping a sabbath is so repugnant to you, you would have no objection at all if the school sports leagues decided to schedule all their weekend sports activities and tournament play on Sunday mornings instead of Saturday mornings? Since you obviously don't care, why not accommodate the Jews and the Adventists and others who do take the ancient Saturday sabbath seriously as a defining practice of their religion? Put all these school events on Sunday, spread them around throughout the day. Leave Saturday as the true sabbath established since ancient times, the only real sabbath worth observing.
I believe I said I respected her decision to keep the sabbath. "you would have no objection at all if the school sports leagues decided to schedule all their weekend sports activities and tournament play on Sunday mornings instead of Saturday mornings?" Only if it were done vindictively.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestWe have pork and you can choose not to eat it.
#67. To: misterwhite (#63)
If you're willing to change the rules to accommodate the religious observance of the 4th commandment (that apparently only two people observe), I'm asking if you're willing to change the rules (laws) to accommodate the religious observance of the Bible -- specifically Leviticus 20:13?
#68. To: watchman (#65)
Christians must avoid going to the courts...with believers and non-believers.
#69. To: misterwhite (#64)
Hate them? No. I admire them for their devotion to their faith. If they believe their faith says they can't play, they don't play. Period. If that results in negative consequences, so be it.
#70. To: watchman (#65)
The Adventists make a big fuss about being "holy"...the word means set apart/separate. They are not exactly being separate from the world when they use the world's court system to impose their will.
#71. To: Tooconservative (#69)
Maybe you should consider whether anyone should ever stand at your back in a similar situation.
#72. To: Tooconservative (#70)
So you think the holiest thing you can do is let them deprive the Adventists of their Saturday sabbath
#73. To: Tooconservative (#67)
Why progress to the regulation of sodomy if you can't even agree on keeping the sabbath holy?
#74. To: Tooconservative (#70)
I don't grasp why you are so opposed to the idea of any sabbath-keeping. Because you do sound opposed.
#75. To: misterwhite (#71)
I think it's shallow, hypocritical and, frankly, non-Christian of me to say I'm observing the tenets of my faith by forcing others to make changes to accommodate me.
#76. To: misterwhite (#72)
What?? Deprive?? I'm not depriving anyone of anything. As I said before, she's free to observe her Saturday sabbath and not participate in sports.
#77. To: misterwhite (#73)
Are you saying I have to keep the sabbath holy? I think I see your problem. And it is your problem.
#78. To: watchman (#74)
No one is stopping the girl from keeping her Sabbath. I just don't want her to impose her Sabbath on all the other athletes who have trained very hard to compete. Let HER sacrifice her tennis for God, no?
#79. To: Tooconservative (#77)
Anti-sabbath Christians don't appeal to me.
#80. To: Tooconservative (#76)
Why should it not be expected that these sports … hold their competitions on scheduled school days.
#81. To: Tooconservative (#78)
people who aren't so popular or so common in your neck of the woods.
#82. To: watchman (#74)
Let HER sacrifice her tennis for God, no?
#83. To: misterwhite (#79)
(Edited)
She was free to follow her faith. No one interfered with that.
#84. To: misterwhite (#80)
You mean, like, after school? After the scheduled school day? Outside of school hours? Perhaps even off school property?
#85. To: misterwhite (#81)
Other than this girl, who was complaining? 800 schools in the WIAA and she was the only one? Say 50 kids from each school involved in the WIAA program. That's 40,000 kids. ONE complained?
#86. To: misterwhite (#82)
She wants her cake and to eat it, too.
#87. To: Tooconservative (#83)
to demand her God-given right to worship as she pleases
#88. To: Tooconservative (#85)
How much more hatred and contempt can even you muster against these children
#89. To: Tooconservative (#78)
you'll deprive (some) Christians, Jews and Muslims from participation in those sports if they refuse to stop observing their religious holidays and obligations?
#90. To: misterwhite (#87)
Who took away her God-given right to worship as she pleases?
#91. To: watchman (#89)
(Edited)
You can believe whatever you want, just don't force your belief on me.
#92. To: Tooconservative (#91)
I'm for The Children on this.
#93. To: watchman (#92)
Which children? The other children have rights, too...to be free from religious beliefs/obligations that they do not hold.
#94. To: Tooconservative (#93)
And they are free.
#95. To: watchman (#94)
They WERE free. Now they must observe, by force of law, the Adventist Sabbath.
#96. To: Tooconservative (#95)
there will be no school sports events while the school is closed for business on the weekend
#97. To: Tooconservative (#48)
#98. To: Vicomte13 (#97)
here is no Sabbath.
#99. To: Tooconservative (#52)
I'd like to see it go all the way to the Supreme Court and set national precedents.
#100. To: Vicomte13 (#99)
Supreme Court, I expect, will uphold freedom of sport over against enforced respect for anybody's "Sabbath".
#101. To: Tooconservative (#90)
The weekend tennis Nazis, that's who.
#102. To: Tooconservative (#93)
As long as they don't insist on forcing other children to participate in sports
#103. To: Vicomte13 (#97)
There is no Sabbath. That was the Mosaic covenant, exclusively for Jews in Israel, which we are not. End of subject.
Commandment 1 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Matthew 4:10). "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment" (Matthew 22:37). "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment" (Mark 12:30). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8).
#104. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#99)
Supreme Court, I expect, will uphold freedom of sport over against enforced respect for anybody's "Sabbath".
#105. To: misterwhite, Vicomte13, A K A Stone, watchman (#101)
For the third (fourth?) time, no one is forcing her to play. She's free to worship any time she wants.
#106. To: Tooconservative (#105)
Then, since the idea of keeping a sabbath is so repugnant to you,
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