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Title: High School tennis stars score religious liberty victory in Washington state
Source:
The Daily Sheeple
URL Source: https://www.thedailysheeple.com/hig ... y-victory-in-washington-state/
Published: Aug 31, 2019
Author: Sean Walton
Post Date: 2019-09-01 12:24:22 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 7726
Comments: 185
Siblings Joseph & Joelle Chung Two high school tennis stars scored a religious liberty victory in Washington state after being kicked off the court for their faith. The Chung siblings, Joseph, 15, and Joelle, 17, both Seventh-day Adventists, a Protestant denomination that observes Sabbath on Saturday as recorded in the Bible, sued the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association (WIAA) earlier this month after Joelle was disqualified from her final state tennis postseason competition because she doesn’t play on Saturdays. The Chung family, represented by Becket, a religious liberty law firm, filed a motion to withdraw their federal suit on Tuesday after WIAA agreed to add religious observance to its reasons for missing games without being penalized. Paul Chung, Joelle’s father, told “The Ingraham Angle” earlier this month that his daughter, who was undefeated on the court, valued her commitment to God more than tennis. “She was disappointed that she couldn’t help the team but she shouldn’t have to choose between religion and playing tennis,” Chung said. Joe Davis, Becket counsel and attorney for the Chungs, told Fox News Friday “it’s an important win for religious student-athletes in Washington and sets a favorable precedent nationwide.” “It’s common sense that Sabbath observers shouldn’t be excluded from any postseason sports competition at all just because of the hypothetical possibility of a schedule conflict somewhere down the line—and after the rule change, they won’t be.” WIAA denied her family’s request for a religious accommodation last season because WIAA’s previous rules stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. WIAA had no exception for sincerely-held religious beliefs. “For the Chung family, keeping the Sabbath holy is a serious commitment,” Becket, a religious liberty law firm, wrote in a complaint filed Aug. 6. The Chungs, both playing for William F. West High School, had conflicts with the WIAA’s state championship schedule, which included a Saturday. While Joelle had to sit out her final postseason play, Joseph, a rising sophomore, was set to have the same fate this year before the rule change. “We’re hopeful that the WIAA will take the next step and eliminate the schedule conflicts altogether, as the law requires,” Davis added. Delivered by The Daily Sheeple
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#13. To: Tooconservative (#12)
My wife was fired from work at a steak house she was working at in the 90's for skipping a meeting and going to church in the morning. It was Sunday. Yeah i'm as bad as the rest of you.
I'm with you. I'm all for religious freedom, but when you commit to a team you commit to their rules -- which clearly stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. I'm sorry but it really pisses me off reading where people (once again) know the rules, break the rules, then seek redress.
I saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yesterday. It could take that title away.
I was thinking about seeing that movie. I still might. Maybe you just have a different taste then I do in movies. Or maybe I would agree with you.
I saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yesterday. It could take that title away. Interesting - I thought you were a big Tarantino fan?
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. Sabbath breaker!
How dare a Christian or a Jew actually consider the solemn obligations of their religious observance around which revolves the eternal fate of their soul to actually be a higher obligation than playing an optional team sport so they can help The Team get a chance to win some crappy plastic trophy with hastily engraved lettering in a church youth league! Now you want to prevent those faithful and committed Christians (and Jews) from suing their way to victory over the Sabbath. Well, these fine young Adventists intend to win that trophy and still go to heaven to hang out at the bosom of Abraham with Lazarus. The rest of you will be hanging out with the Rich Man in hell, begging them to send Lazarus to warn your brethren not to play team sports on Sundays.
I'm a big Quentin Tarantino fan and have seen all his movies more than once. I was disappointed by this one. Great acting and cinematography, though.
I wonder why people changed gods day that he said to remember. I'm included in that. We didn't change the Sabbath Day...but we did change the day we worship! The precedent is found in Scripture. Note the use of THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK...(emp mine) The "first day of the week" is now called Sunday. At the Resurrection Jesus appeared on a Sunday. The disciples began to assemble, break bread, and listen to preaching on Sunday. Offerings of money were to be made on Sunday. The we see John "in the Spirit" on the "Lord's Day". Christians don't usually call Sunday the Sabbath Day. We call it the Lord's Day.
We don't have to make these rules! The observant Jews do not bother anybody about their day of worship. They just close up go home and observe the Sabbath. They certainly don't sue to close down Gentile sports. So if the Seven Day Adventist demand non-Christains observe Saturday, and the rest of Christians demand non-Christians to observe Sunday...when DO they get to play their college and pro sports? We Christians are choosing to be part of THEIR sports. What gall we have in making demands that they accommodate us! By the way, let's see this chick or any of her fellow Seven Day Adventist start suing the NCAA. She be an instant martyr! lol Here's a thought...if God has given you the ability to hit or catch a ball, or run like crazy...go out and use that talent to be an example for Christ among those non-Christians. I love to see Christian athletes out there on Saturday and Sunday being an example for Christ!
I don't know his story completely but I do note some important differences between him and Joseph & Joelle Chung. Firstly, Liddel took a stand for Sunday observance. He had the majority of Christendom behind him. Second, he took a stand in a different era all together. Back in his day, Christians closed up shop, work stopped and people went to church. It was a big deal! Try to do something like that now and all you are going to do is alienate everybody and/or confuse them. Times have change, for better or worse. Third, I note that he chose an event he COULD run in and won that!
Yay, heathen though I may be, rules are rules.
I'm sorry that she was fired. That is a painful thing no matter how it happens. Did she make any arrangements before hand with management? Was management particularly negative against Christians. Just some questions... Stone, do you observe Sabbath (Saturday) worship? As noted, your wife observes Sunday. Some areas of the country are more Sunday oriented. More businesses close, even non-Christian ones out of respect. In those areas a Christian could miss a business meeting and the management would just factor your absence right in. "Where's so-and-so? Oh, yeah, they went to church."
I do have sympathy for that situation. Maybe the steak houses shouldn't open up so early so their employees can attend services and have some family time. Even waiting to open at 11am would help a lot. This is something that was once taken for granted, that businesses would routinely close on Sunday or would open later. A business should really be up front when hiring employees that they may be required to work on Sundays. I think people would prefer that most businesses close on Sunday. We don't require federal mail service 7 days a week and it doesn't cause much problem to close the post offices on Sundays. The panicked mobs have not rioted for lack of Sunday U.S. mail services.
My point is: at the present time I do not observe Saturday or Sunday. God seems like He's okay with it. He understands that I farm. He understands that Christians play sports on Saturday or Sunday. We are not under the Law! Nobody can keep the Law anyway. Except Christ keeps it for us! There is no Law that says: if you don't go to Church you'll be stoned to death.
They never opened on Sunday morning. It was a one time special meeting. Or perhaps occasionally.
Well, these Adventists differ with you. And they have lawyers apparently.
I would side with your wife if she sued them. There are no special steakhouse emergencies that require Sunday attendance. It sounds like wrongful termination.
You're saying you want to disqualify athletes on the basis of religious practice. It is interesting to see a sabbatarian court case. In 2019. With two Adventist athletes. The Chung family may be on the verge of setting vital legal precedent.
I don't want to, but they knew the rules when they signed up. Let's keep in mind, SHE refused to play. It's not as though the WIAA didn't allow her to play on the basis of her religious practice.
This is how it was when I was a kid. High School football was on Friday nights...only. I was shocked when I found out that high schools in other parts of the country had games on Saturday. I remember this because I photographed high school sports and I thought how nice it would be to photograph a daytime game. Of course, week day games would never work for college and pro. It's not going to happen...well, aside from Monday Night Football and Thursday Night Football.
Maybe you'd be even happier if Christian athletes were free to spend Sunday in worship and demand that society honor their commitment to their lord and savior, Jesus Christ. Wouldn't that be just as good? Wouldn't it be better? But perhaps you prefer instead to insist to young people that their religious practice (unless Muslim or pagan) is completely unimportant compared to playing games that less then 0.1% of them will ever get a full scholarship to play in college, let alone play professionally. Or is it that you just don't like having a sabbath at all and don't want any dusty old bible verse telling you to "remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy", the same way that Jesus Himself kept it holy?
No, the WIAA decided to schedule games to punish the participation of these athletes who the WIAA had cause to know would not participate on their sabbath. The WIAA could have scheduled around these conflicts but they chose exclusion and persecution, possibly depriving these athletes of a chance to earn a scholarship. Surprising how anti-Christian some Christians suddenly are when you pit something they actually like (high school sports) against something they don't really like, like some cruddy old 4th Commandment that stretches on through multiple verses about keeping the sabbath holy and no dodging the rule cleverly. So should this rule you like requiring participation on a sabbath apply to Christians only? Should it apply to Muslims? How about Jews? Would you allow Jews to keep the 4th commandment and not punish them for it?
Well, if they are building a career, using their God given talents, they may have to miss some church, wouldn't you say? Christians aren't known for making demands The Bible says "Not by power, nor by might, but by the Spirit" Now, please tell how YOU keep the Sabbath holy...
Ah, you don't like the mention of keeping the sabbath holy. That's okay. There's a lot of people now who are hostile to the very idea of holiness. People don't want to measure their own lives against a word like "holiness". It's funny how "keeping the sabbath" devolved in Western countries over last century or two. "Keeping the sabbath" turned into "attend church for an hour or so on Sunday morning". And the "keep it holy" part kind of disappeared from Christian thinking altogether. Along with wisdom, holiness has disappeared as being among the most desirable traits - really the most essential traits - that any Christian can develop over decades. I can't recall the last time I heard a sermon extolling holiness, holy living or prayer to ask God to impart His grace and His wisdom to us. When I was young, we still heard a few sermons like that a year. We're too busy on Facebook to pursue wisdom. Holiness will have to wait until after we get a few more spiritualish tattoos on our thighs. It hasn't been all that long since the pursuit of holiness and wisdom were sermon topics heard in any church in America. You had churches that were all about holiness and holy living, like the old Wesleyan holiness churches. They were quite strict about courtship, secular entertainment, etc. Maybe they've all died out and their great-grandchildren are a bunch of tranny atheists or something like that. You do notice, though, that people don't seem to want to measure their lives against any yardstick of holiness.
Might I conclude you don't like it either? I have asked how YOU keep the Sabbath holy... What day do you consider to be the Sabbath...Saturday? Sunday? For instance, do you refrain from posting on the Sabbath? (Would you be found quarreling on those Sabbath posts). Do you attend church or temple? Do you shop for groceries on Sabbath? Go out to eat? My Mennonite folks will not even answer the phone on Sunday. How exactly do YOU keep the Sabbath holy?
I don't care that much. I'm more interested in how people reconcile their use of scripture to how they conduct their lives. It's a total disconnect. In the vast majority of churches, they only invoke the fury of OT writings for That Stuff that they don't like. Not because it is a great sin but because they have fewer things they agree to be publicly condemning about. What I'm waiting for is the invention of the sinless church for the sinless Christians. We're almost there. And I don't give out very much personal info online. An old habit. And this is an anonymous chat board after all. I get it, the idea of being totally holy on the sabbath. But what if that phone call was to summon them to put out a small fire near their church. And by not answering the phone, their church burns to the ground and requires they restrict their missionary funding and their local charity efforts for years. Answering a phone is not unholy on any day of the week. Do they think, perhaps, it is only unholy on Sunday but perfectly holy the rest of the week? Or are they willing to compromise with the sin of phone use 6 days a week but go for holiness only on the sabbath. The phrase "to keep it holy" can be read several ways. You might keep it holy by dedicating a whole day of worship and family activity and charity work. That probably counts as holiness in any Christian church. However, there is a minimalist element of observation of the sabbath: the one day a week you avoid doing unholy things. The one day a week you really restrain your usual impulses to gossip or overlook the needy or break traffic laws or see your mistress or spend a little alone time with Pornhub, well, whatever your usual sin habits are. I've been interested in this sabbatarianism for many years. From farmers doing no work on Sunday (unless a heifer is calving) down to "no gross sins on Sunday" and now to Christians who resent other Christians who do observe a sabbath day faithfully and expect their civil rights to be respected by society. And so we have misterwhite and you on this thread, expressing considerable resentment toward these two Adventists who expect to have their sabbath respected? What, do they think they deserve equal rights with Muslims or Jews or something? They're going to ruin everything with their sabbath nonsense!
Never gonna happen. As long as we are in this world we are going to sin. The church is made up of sinners. Paul, speaking in the present tense, is saying he is, at that moment, the chief of sinners...what does that say about the rest of us Christians? Thanks, TC, I appreciate your answers.
Oh? They said that? Or are you just making shit up again? "So should this rule you like requiring participation on a sabbath apply to Christians only?" She wasn't "required" to do shit. She chose not to participate, knowing full well she would be disqualified. The rules were written long before she signed up. They apply to everyone. She wanted the league to make an exception just for her.
Isn't it time that we just rewrite that pesky Fourth Commandment? How about: "Forget the Sabbath. And don't you dare to keep it holy." Seems to be about what most of you think about the 4th commandment and any idea of keeping a sabbath holy (whatever that entails). I find it interesting, how people apply or refuse to even acknowledge these supposed landmark ideas about religion in the Jewish or Christian context. You know who is going to really like these two Adventists? Jewish lawyers and judges and Jewish legal scholars. For obvious reasons. I would not bet against the chances for the two Adventists to make Saturday a more respected sabbath under the law than Sunday is at present. I, of course, am cheering for the Adventists, those two lone witnesses for holiness and religious observation.
Thanks for this reminder. I'd forgotten how funny Zechariah and Zerubabbel really were so I had to go back to re-read it.
Other than these two Adventists, how many people has this rule actually affected? Hundreds of Christians? Thousands? How many people, other than these two, will a rule change affect? Any? You are turning this issue into a grand theological debate when it only affect two fanatics who interpret the fourth commandment differently than everyone else.
She chose to participate on non-sabbath days, something well within the power of the sports conference to accommodate. You may not be aware of it but a lot of the civil rights we have today come from cases involving Jehovah's Witnesses back in the Thirties when they had an especially fiery and apocalyptic leader. And the Adventists have their place in our law books, though less so than the Jehovah gang. Heck, even the God-hates-fags Westboro Church won a very major victory at the Supreme Court some years back. (The Westboro church also likes God-hates-soldiers, God-hates-you, God-hates-America too.) All of the founder's children had gotten law degrees and one of the daughters, Margie Phelps, served as lead counsel in their case which was heard by the Supreme Court and which they won resoundingly. Associate justice Alito was the lone dissenter. I enjoy their rendition of "God Bless America" with their new lyrics: "God hates America". Very catchy. So you've got an opinion. But the Adventists have lawyers that have already won a significant civil rights victory and pinned back the ears of the local youth sports mafia. And it is just eating your shit alive to think about that, isn't it? Is it that you have surrendered so much already to accommodate the world, knowing you've gotten almost nothing in return or did you just hate the general idea of holy living to begin with? It's hard to get convincing answers to such questions.
I see. So, in your opinion, it is only "fanatics" that would insist on observing the 4th commandment in any meaningful way instead of dismissing their religious obligations entirely so they can play some crappy bush league sport at which they have a 0.1% chance of ever getting a scholarship, let alone make a living at? I liked you better when you stuck to simple copsucking as a hobby.
How about: "Remember the Sabbath, how Jesus Christ kept it perfectly holy for me, because I couldn't..." That is the substitutionary life that we Christians enjoy.
That's a good answer, as good as you'll get. I think Vic would like that if you've read some of his posts before. Jesus did quote nine of the ten commandments though. I'm not sure that you've dealt with that adequately. But maybe you prefer to plow on through and hope God doesn't hold a little deliberate commandment-breaking against your record.
I don't call a tennis tournament "meaningful". They insist on changing the rules of a crappy bush league sport which affected nobody before they showed up and will affect nobody when they leave.
Or so you hope. You fear that this might spread or you wouldn't be so vehement against these Adventist commandment fanatics. You realize, perhaps, that the two Adventists could set a legal precedent to stop all school sports on weekends while the churches continue playing their puny little league sports on Sundays? Making the churches the most unholy commandment-breakers in American society? That outcome is entirely possible. I think you know it.
If it spread and more and more players refused to play because of their devotion to their faith, then perhaps the WIAA would be open to a rule change. That's how things used to be done. "You realize, perhaps, that the two Adventists could set a legal precedent to stop all school sports on weekends … …" You say that like it's a good thing. Two people, for purely selfish reasons, changing the rules for participants from 800 statewide schools through threat of legal action just so they can play under their interpretation of the fourth commandment.
And good for them. They adhere to their religion. In much the same way that Abraham, for purely selfish reasons, adhered to his new religion. In much the same way that Jesus and the Apostle Paul, for purely selfish reasons, adhered to their religious tenets. You can apply "purely selfish" to almost any religious figure who ever made any history at all. And it is generally the case that those who do stand up for their "purely selfish reasons" are despised in their own era by a majority of the public. And this case is no different. You underestimate the power of this case. It has genuine disruptive potential. And you just can't stand the thought of it. I'd like to see it go all the way to the Supreme Court and set national precedents.
What these two Adventists have done is open the door for Muslims to sue. They'll be playing tennis in burkas soon thanks to the Adventists. What a terrible shame against the Adventists...how dare they take non-Christians to court against the clear teaching of Scripture.
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#14. To: watchman (#1)
I can't get behind this.
#15. To: A K A Stone (#7)
I saw that movie. Most boring movie ever to win best picture. Yawn.
#16. To: misterwhite (#15)
I saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yesterday. It could take that title away.
#17. To: misterwhite (#15)
Most boring movie ever to win best picture. Yawn.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#18. To: A K A Stone (#13)
Yeah i'm as bad as the rest of you.
#19. To: misterwhite, redleghunter (#14)
I'm with you. I'm all for religious freedom, but when you commit to a team you commit to their rules -- which clearly stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty.
#20. To: A K A Stone (#16)
I was thinking about seeing that movie. I still might. Maybe you just have a different taste then I do in movies. Or maybe I would agree with you.
#21. To: A K A Stone (#8)
The sabbath is truly on Saturday.
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Then the same day at evening, being THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
And upon THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Upon THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
I was in the Spirit ON THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
#22. To: Tooconservative (#2)
So maybe we should just make some rules that Jews need not apply
#23. To: Deckard (#5)
(Edited)
Would you say the same things about Eric Liddel?
#24. To: Tooconservative (#19)
#25. To: A K A Stone (#13)
My wife was fired from work at a steak house she was working at in the 90's for skipping a meeting and going to church in the morning. It was Sunday.
#26. To: A K A Stone (#13)
My wife was fired from work at a steak house she was working at in the 90's for skipping a meeting and going to church in the morning. It was Sunday.
#27. To: Tooconservative (#11)
Big deal. Everyone engaged in animal husbandry works seven days a week.
#28. To: Tooconservative (#26)
I do have sympathy for that situation. Maybe the steak houses shouldn't open up so early so their employees can attend services and have some family time. Even waiting to open at 11am would help a lot.
#29. To: watchman (#27)
God seems like He's okay with it. He understands that I farm. He understands that Christians play sports on Saturday or Sunday.
#30. To: A K A Stone (#28)
They never opened on Sunday morning. It was a one time special meeting.
#31. To: misterwhite (#24)
Yay, heathen though I may be, rules are rules.
#32. To: Tooconservative (#31)
You're saying you want to disqualify athletes on the basis of religious practice.
#33. To: Tooconservative (#2)
Personally, I don't think they should allow sports and school events on weekends. At all. Let the kids and families have their time free. The same applies to early starts for summer practice for kids' sports.
#34. To: watchman (#22)
I love to see Christian athletes out there on Saturday and Sunday being an example for Christ!
#35. To: misterwhite (#32)
Let's keep in mind, SHE refused to play. It's not as though the WIAA didn't allow her to play on the basis of her religious practice.
#36. To: Tooconservative (#34)
Maybe you'd be even happier if Christian athletes were free to spend Sunday in worship
and demand that society honor their commitment...
#37. To: watchman (#36)
Now, please tell how YOU keep the Sabbath holy...
#38. To: Tooconservative (#37)
Ah, you don't like the mention of keeping the sabbath holy.
#39. To: watchman (#38)
(Edited)
Might I conclude you don't like it either?
My Mennonite folks will not even answer the phone on Sunday.
#40. To: Tooconservative (#39)
What I'm waiting for is the invention of the sinless church for the sinless Christians. We're almost there.
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1Tim. 1:15
#41. To: Tooconservative (#35)
No, the WIAA decided to schedule games to punish the participation of these athletes who the WIAA had cause to know would not participate on their sabbath.
#42. To: misterwhite, watchman (#41)
#43. To: watchman (#36)
The Bible says "Not by power, nor by might, but by the Spirit"
#44. To: Tooconservative (#42)
Seems to be about what most of you think about the 4th commandment and any idea of keeping a sabbath holy (whatever that entails).
#45. To: misterwhite (#41)
(Edited)
She wasn't "required" to do shit. She chose not to participate, knowing full well she would be disqualified.
#46. To: misterwhite (#44)
You are turning this issue into a grand theological debate when it only affect two fanatics who interpret the fourth commandment differently than everyone else.
#47. To: Tooconservative (#42)
How about: "Forget the Sabbath. And don't you dare to keep it holy."
#48. To: watchman, Vicomte13 (#47)
That is the substitutionary life that we Christians enjoy.
#49. To: Tooconservative (#46)
it is only "fanatics" that would insist on observing the 4th commandment in any meaningful way
#50. To: misterwhite (#49)
They insist on changing the rules of a crappy bush league sport which affected nobody before they showed up and will affect nobody when they leave.
#51. To: Tooconservative (#50)
You fear that this might spread or you wouldn't be so vehement against these Adventist commandment fanatics.
#52. To: misterwhite (#51)
Two people, for purely selfish reasons, changing the rules for participants from 800 statewide schools through threat of legal action just so they can play under their interpretation of the fourth commandment.
#53. To: misterwhite, Tooconservative (#51)
"You realize, perhaps, that the two Adventists could set a legal precedent to stop all school sports on weekends … …"
If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers! 1Cor.6:1-6
If we Christians are not to take other Christians to court, how much less are we to take non-Christians?
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