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Title: High School tennis stars score religious liberty victory in Washington state
Source:
The Daily Sheeple
URL Source: https://www.thedailysheeple.com/hig ... y-victory-in-washington-state/
Published: Aug 31, 2019
Author: Sean Walton
Post Date: 2019-09-01 12:24:22 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 10229
Comments: 185
Siblings Joseph & Joelle Chung Two high school tennis stars scored a religious liberty victory in Washington state after being kicked off the court for their faith. The Chung siblings, Joseph, 15, and Joelle, 17, both Seventh-day Adventists, a Protestant denomination that observes Sabbath on Saturday as recorded in the Bible, sued the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association (WIAA) earlier this month after Joelle was disqualified from her final state tennis postseason competition because she doesn’t play on Saturdays. The Chung family, represented by Becket, a religious liberty law firm, filed a motion to withdraw their federal suit on Tuesday after WIAA agreed to add religious observance to its reasons for missing games without being penalized. Paul Chung, Joelle’s father, told “The Ingraham Angle” earlier this month that his daughter, who was undefeated on the court, valued her commitment to God more than tennis. “She was disappointed that she couldn’t help the team but she shouldn’t have to choose between religion and playing tennis,” Chung said. Joe Davis, Becket counsel and attorney for the Chungs, told Fox News Friday “it’s an important win for religious student-athletes in Washington and sets a favorable precedent nationwide.” “It’s common sense that Sabbath observers shouldn’t be excluded from any postseason sports competition at all just because of the hypothetical possibility of a schedule conflict somewhere down the line—and after the rule change, they won’t be.” WIAA denied her family’s request for a religious accommodation last season because WIAA’s previous rules stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. WIAA had no exception for sincerely-held religious beliefs. “For the Chung family, keeping the Sabbath holy is a serious commitment,” Becket, a religious liberty law firm, wrote in a complaint filed Aug. 6. The Chungs, both playing for William F. West High School, had conflicts with the WIAA’s state championship schedule, which included a Saturday. While Joelle had to sit out her final postseason play, Joseph, a rising sophomore, was set to have the same fate this year before the rule change. “We’re hopeful that the WIAA will take the next step and eliminate the schedule conflicts altogether, as the law requires,” Davis added. Delivered by The Daily Sheeple
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 147.
#1. To: Deckard (#0)
She was disappointed that she couldn’t help the team I can't get behind this. If she is part of a team that is counting on her, she should fulfill her obligations. Other athletes are counting on her participation. It is not fair to them. I realize she is Seven Day Adventist, but if Sabbath worship is that important she should withdraw from the team. And...she sued the WIAA costing them money to defend themselves! I worship on Sunday. If my church has athletes that need to play on Sunday then they need to go and play. Church will still be there when they finish the season. Not to mention, I work seven days a week...and God blesses me mightily.
I'm with you. I'm all for religious freedom, but when you commit to a team you commit to their rules -- which clearly stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. I'm sorry but it really pisses me off reading where people (once again) know the rules, break the rules, then seek redress.
How dare a Christian or a Jew actually consider the solemn obligations of their religious observance around which revolves the eternal fate of their soul to actually be a higher obligation than playing an optional team sport so they can help The Team get a chance to win some crappy plastic trophy with hastily engraved lettering in a church youth league! Now you want to prevent those faithful and committed Christians (and Jews) from suing their way to victory over the Sabbath. Well, these fine young Adventists intend to win that trophy and still go to heaven to hang out at the bosom of Abraham with Lazarus. The rest of you will be hanging out with the Rich Man in hell, begging them to send Lazarus to warn your brethren not to play team sports on Sundays.
Yay, heathen though I may be, rules are rules.
You're saying you want to disqualify athletes on the basis of religious practice. It is interesting to see a sabbatarian court case. In 2019. With two Adventist athletes. The Chung family may be on the verge of setting vital legal precedent.
I don't want to, but they knew the rules when they signed up. Let's keep in mind, SHE refused to play. It's not as though the WIAA didn't allow her to play on the basis of her religious practice.
No, the WIAA decided to schedule games to punish the participation of these athletes who the WIAA had cause to know would not participate on their sabbath. The WIAA could have scheduled around these conflicts but they chose exclusion and persecution, possibly depriving these athletes of a chance to earn a scholarship. Surprising how anti-Christian some Christians suddenly are when you pit something they actually like (high school sports) against something they don't really like, like some cruddy old 4th Commandment that stretches on through multiple verses about keeping the sabbath holy and no dodging the rule cleverly. So should this rule you like requiring participation on a sabbath apply to Christians only? Should it apply to Muslims? How about Jews? Would you allow Jews to keep the 4th commandment and not punish them for it?
Oh? They said that? Or are you just making shit up again? "So should this rule you like requiring participation on a sabbath apply to Christians only?" She wasn't "required" to do shit. She chose not to participate, knowing full well she would be disqualified. The rules were written long before she signed up. They apply to everyone. She wanted the league to make an exception just for her.
Isn't it time that we just rewrite that pesky Fourth Commandment? How about: "Forget the Sabbath. And don't you dare to keep it holy." Seems to be about what most of you think about the 4th commandment and any idea of keeping a sabbath holy (whatever that entails). I find it interesting, how people apply or refuse to even acknowledge these supposed landmark ideas about religion in the Jewish or Christian context. You know who is going to really like these two Adventists? Jewish lawyers and judges and Jewish legal scholars. For obvious reasons. I would not bet against the chances for the two Adventists to make Saturday a more respected sabbath under the law than Sunday is at present. I, of course, am cheering for the Adventists, those two lone witnesses for holiness and religious observation.
Other than these two Adventists, how many people has this rule actually affected? Hundreds of Christians? Thousands? How many people, other than these two, will a rule change affect? Any? You are turning this issue into a grand theological debate when it only affect two fanatics who interpret the fourth commandment differently than everyone else.
I see. So, in your opinion, it is only "fanatics" that would insist on observing the 4th commandment in any meaningful way instead of dismissing their religious obligations entirely so they can play some crappy bush league sport at which they have a 0.1% chance of ever getting a scholarship, let alone make a living at? I liked you better when you stuck to simple copsucking as a hobby.
I don't call a tennis tournament "meaningful". They insist on changing the rules of a crappy bush league sport which affected nobody before they showed up and will affect nobody when they leave.
Or so you hope. You fear that this might spread or you wouldn't be so vehement against these Adventist commandment fanatics. You realize, perhaps, that the two Adventists could set a legal precedent to stop all school sports on weekends while the churches continue playing their puny little league sports on Sundays? Making the churches the most unholy commandment-breakers in American society? That outcome is entirely possible. I think you know it.
If it spread and more and more players refused to play because of their devotion to their faith, then perhaps the WIAA would be open to a rule change. That's how things used to be done. "You realize, perhaps, that the two Adventists could set a legal precedent to stop all school sports on weekends … …" You say that like it's a good thing. Two people, for purely selfish reasons, changing the rules for participants from 800 statewide schools through threat of legal action just so they can play under their interpretation of the fourth commandment.
And good for them. They adhere to their religion. In much the same way that Abraham, for purely selfish reasons, adhered to his new religion. In much the same way that Jesus and the Apostle Paul, for purely selfish reasons, adhered to their religious tenets. You can apply "purely selfish" to almost any religious figure who ever made any history at all. And it is generally the case that those who do stand up for their "purely selfish reasons" are despised in their own era by a majority of the public. And this case is no different. You underestimate the power of this case. It has genuine disruptive potential. And you just can't stand the thought of it. I'd like to see it go all the way to the Supreme Court and set national precedents.
What if they strictly adhered to Leviticus 20:13 in the Bible: "And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Should we change the laws to accommodate them? Is it still, "Good for them"?
So do you want them to violate Leviticus or are you suggesting they have already violated Leviticus? I don't even understand why you want to drag sodomy into an issue about reasonable accommodation of religious observance of the 4th commandment. Yes. No. Maybe. I'm not sure what you're even driving at here. Wanting to play tennis on a schoolday instead of your sabbath day should not be compared willy-nilly to acts of sodomy. You're becoming deranged over these Adventists and their subversive sabbath-keeping ways. You sound like you're afraid of them or something.
If you're willing to change the rules to accommodate the religious observance of the 4th commandment (that apparently only two people observe), I'm asking if you're willing to change the rules (laws) to accommodate the religious observance of the Bible -- specifically Leviticus 20:13? Don't act so obtuse.
Why progress to the regulation of sodomy if you can't even agree on keeping the sabbath holy? Apparently, you have some sodomy issue you're trying to work out. "Well, if you Yankees don't give in to sports on Saturday, we'll all start buttfucking each other just to get revenge on you." Where's the connection in your mind between sodomy and remembering the sabbath, to keep it holy? You don't have a fetish about committing sodomy on the sabbath, do you?
Are you saying I have to keep the sabbath holy? I think I see your problem. And it is your problem.
These two Adventists intend to make it your problem. I couldn't be more pleased. Anti-sabbath Christians don't appeal to me. I have more respect for Christians who respect their own sabbath and the sabbaths of others. But thanks for your honesty.
How other Christians follow their faith is none of my business. I don't understand why it's yours. She was free to follow her faith. No one interfered with that.
And she followed it right into a courtroom to demand her God-given right to worship as she pleases, a right explicitly recognized under constitutional law. Not just when some puny high school sports association tells her she can worship.
Who took away her God-given right to worship as she pleases?
The weekend tennis Nazis, that's who.
For the third (fourth?) time, no one is forcing her to play. She's free to worship any time she wants.
Then, since the idea of keeping a sabbath is so repugnant to you, you would have no objection at all if the school sports leagues decided to schedule all their weekend sports activities and tournament play on Sunday mornings instead of Saturday mornings? Since you obviously don't care, why not accommodate the Jews and the Adventists and others who do take the ancient Saturday sabbath seriously as a defining practice of their religion? Put all these school events on Sunday, spread them around throughout the day. Leave Saturday as the true sabbath established since ancient times, the only real sabbath worth observing.
The Sabbath isn't repugnant to me...but snowflakes who demand special treatment...yeah, they are a little repugnant to me. Are they going to shut down the ski team, the golf team, the track and field team, the debate team, the basketball team, the marching band, the Junior and Senior Prom, the foreign student exchange program, the Senior Trip...most of which meet and compete on weekends. Scroll up to the top and take another look at their special snowflake grin now that they've screwed everybody out of extra curricular activity...now that's repugnant!
Extend the school year by a week or two. That would make plenty of time for all these extra sports events. The teens now hardly ever work summer jobs anyway. And most farmers I know are mechanized enough that they aren't relying on their kids for summer labor. That usually involves more mundane stuff like painting buildings or cleaning barns and such anyway. Again, why not make reasonable accommodation? Why is a shorter school year (by a week or two) more important than excluding Saturday sabbatarians from those same taxpayer-funded sports? If you want the freedom to schedule school events any time, night or day, then send your kids to private schools. And would you mind if they just moved all the Saturday sports events to Sundays? Since you don't value a sabbath to begin with, why would you object if Saturday were sports-free and all weekend sports were conducted only on Sundays? Or are you just content to deprive Jews and Adventists of their Sabbath while you know that your (nominal) sabbath (which you've said you don't actually care about) is respected when the schedules are set up for the season?
If they did move sports to Sunday, I would not sue them, and demand they bend to my religion...never. I love freedom of religion and I love freedom from religion. Let them move their sports to Sunday...the pros play on Sunday anyway. Let them make Sunday a school day, a work day. Let them make laws that prohibit me from assembling (as already happens around the world). I do not need blue laws or sharia laws or any other man made laws to help me assemble and worship. I am not a snow flake...
Too bad really. This is one reason Christians in America keep losing so steadily. Because the other side and the courts know you're happy to take it on the chin, no matter what they do. Then why not accommodate these two Adventists since you don't care what days these amateur bush-league events are held on to begin with? No. You're a doormat. And when doormats finally get popular in America, you've got it made.
I'd rather be a doormat, than a snowflake.
I was hoping you'd help resolve those contradictions in 1 Corinthians. I'm still not sure what, on balance, Paul intended to convey to that Corinthian. Then he had to go and write to the Two Corinthians after that. The church at Corinth required a lot of apostolic supervision, it seems.
I'm not sure why you posted the Corinthian passage. I posted the Colossians passage... ...because you were judging me in respect to how I kept, or regarded, the Sabbath. You said... and also... Colossians 2:16 was given for just such an occasion as this. In all the years I had read that passage I never dreamt I'd need to quote it. (There's plenty of good commentary on it ;)
If you don't care about the sabbath or recognize it, why do you care if the Adventists do take their sabbath seriously? Or if Jews take their sabbath seriously? You seem to mind more that these Adventists are demanding that their sabbath be respected as much as anyone else's sabbath. Because we both know that regular Sunday high school sports aren't on the schedule anywhere. At least, I never see any games listed on Sundays, not even makeup games or playoffs or tournaments where scheduling would be expected to be tighter. You might be surprised. I know when I was young, there was discussion in the local church of which daily work could be considered routine and which was essential or emergency work. The consensus was that it was an emergency and excusable if you were hard up to finish a harvest or hay crop. Or if you were pulling a calf or feeding cows or checking cows. Other than that, you would be treating the sabbath like an ordinary day of the week. You shouldn't be too surprised if your neighbors might observe the same sort of things. Because rural areas are boring and everyone does know too much about their neighbors. I always went with that standard. I found I could check/feed cattle on Sunday morning early and do another check after church, then an evening check. But I didn't do things like fix fence or do summer fallow or things like that on Sunday. I would try to avoid cutting down hay on Friday or Saturday so I was less likely to need to stack/bale hay on a Sunday. If you don't have too much of a full-time haying schedule, it can be made to work. I'm not sure if anyone even has any regard for sabbaths and farm work any more. Perhaps what I recall and what I did (as a regular churchgoer back then) are just a relic of the old days and no one today pays any attention to sabbath keeping of any sort. Maybe it is now just another day of the week on America's farms and nothing else. We don't grow olives and figs and grapes as they did in the Bible. They didn't have cattle that needed help birthing or crops like wheat or alfalfa that are very time-critical to harvest. We have a different kind of agriculture, often more time-sensitive. So at least some differences do apply IMO. I always thought it was important not to erase the sabbath, to set aside the day if at all possible.
For the millionth time...I don't care if they take it serious or not. I do care that they are using their Sabbath observance to take away American freedom. Others, I think, are trying to tell you the same thing...don't take away someone's freedom to play a sport, when and where they want to, just because you believe a certain way! It's wrong! Let the Adventists go and start a private school. How hard is that! Now, as for your farming work/Sabbath discussions in your old church... How one keeps the Sabbath or any holy day for that matter just ends up as something to boast about: "I keep the Sabbath better than you" "I go to church more than you" "I'm a better Christian than you because I piled up a bunch of hay for my cows the day before Sabbath. See, I didn't do a ANY work on Sabbath". The Bible calls it being "vainly puffed up" by one's fleshly mind. TC, the Sabbath and all the holy days were just a "shadow" of things to come...namely Christ. Read it...it's right there in the Bible. The Sabbath is there to TEACH you about Christ, how He lay in the tomb "resting" after He finished His work on the cross. That's what Sabbath (Shabbat)means, "to rest from labor" It's Christ resting from HIS labor! Please! Try to understand. Christ...fulfilled...Sabbath...already. All you have to do is trust in Him and it is accredited to you as well. And maybe this is why Christians have been instructed to move to a new day, the first day of the week, the Lord's Day. The "rest" is over, it's time to praise and rejoice! Hey, this repetitive stuff is wearisome. I'm old and I've been cutting firewood all day:-)
The Sabbath is there to TEACH you about Christ, how He lay in the tomb "resting" after He finished His work on the cross. That's what Sabbath (Shabbat)means, "to rest from labor" It's Christ resting from HIS labor! Please! Try to understand. Christ...fulfilled...Sabbath...already. But was He "just resting", like a parrot in a Monty Python skit? What point is there in resting for the dead whose bodies don't become weary? Then we have a few passages in scripture to deal with. But we have another explanation as well. So Jesus was "resting" in another tiresome too-easy explanation about some OT "foreshadowing". Or he was partying in Paradise with the thief. Or he was preaching in hell. Or maybe he partied for one day with the thief in Paradise then spent 2 days in hell preaching to the semi-righteous who had been burning in hell ever since Noah's flood drowned them all. One of those things. Or something else entirely.
Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. another tiresome too-easy explanation about some OT "foreshadowing". Jesus, being God, can certainly be where ever and whenever He wants, no problem there. As for as OT foreshadowing, that's what the OT is all about. The OT uses historical events to help us understand spiritual truths. For instance, circumcision in the OT helps us understand the spiritual circumcision of the heart. In the same way, Antiochus Epiphanes is a "type" of the Anti-christ, a foreshadowing. Why do you say "foreshadowing" is tiresome? Just curious.
It becomes an excuse to pretend the OT is still relevant, even in its most obscure and inapplicable passages. The greatest sources of heresy, after the gnostics, was a constant series of attempts to apply OT Jewish scripture to the Christians. When, for instance, Paul or other NT writers refer in quotes back to OT scriptures, they were most certainly not telling us that those elements of Judaism are authentical Christian doctrine. Yet every flimflam preacher and theologian in the last two thousand years dips their brush in the OT inkwell, to make it say what they want it to say and to make that applicable to their own favored theology. So you have, for instance, the defenses of American slavery using passages from the Old Testament, not the New Testament. Or defense of public morals laws using the OT when no such condemnation can be found in the NT. The examples are endless and they do blight people's lives, often over centuries. All in the name of Jesus supposedly but actually just in the name of those who promulgate these anti-Christian doctrines that they can support only by trying to pretend that the Old Testament is applicable to Christianity and that "Judeo-Christian morality" is the reason for it. (Another lie: there is no Judeo-Christian anything and any Jew can tell you that if anyone ever bothered to ask them. But they make sure they don't ask the Jews about those things, don't they?)
The greatest sources of heresy, after the gnostics, was a constant series of attempts to apply OT Jewish scripture to the Christians. When, for instance, Paul or other NT writers refer in quotes back to OT scriptures, they were most certainly not telling us that those elements of Judaism are authentical Christian doctrine. Yet every flimflam preacher and theologian in the last two thousand years dips their brush in the OT inkwell, to make it say what they want it to say and to make that applicable to their own favored theology. So you have, for instance, the defenses of American slavery using passages from the Old Testament, not the New Testament. Or defense of public morals laws using the OT when no such condemnation can be found in the NT. The examples are endless and they do blight people's lives, often over centuries. All in the name of Jesus supposedly but actually just in the name of those who promulgate these anti-Christian doctrines that they can support only by trying to pretend that the Old Testament is applicable to Christianity and that "Judeo-Christian morality" is the reason for it. (Another lie: there is no Judeo-Christian anything and any Jew can tell you that if anyone ever bothered to ask them. But they make sure they don't ask the Jews about those things, don't they?) Nailed it. Bingo. Bullseye. Target achieved. Exactly right. Perfect. What he said.
I appreciate the appreciation. However, I've posted about the mischief of heresy and false doctrines caused by misuse of the OT about as many times as you've posted about red letter quotes. Certainly, it's a tune I've sung many times online at LP and here at LF. So don't act quite so surprised. But thanks for the concurrence.
Certainly, it's a tune I've sung many times online at LP and here at LF. So don't act quite so surprised. But thanks for the concurrence. But THIS time you didn't tangle it up with some "defense of MY doctrine" or Catholic-bashing nonsense. You fired off a well-aimed torpedo and it went right up the poop-chute of your target and exploded. Boom! Slam dunk!
I rarely blamed Rome for things that the Prots had clearly done. After all, so much of this happened well before there was enough Catholic population in this country to influence anything. Besides, I still have plenty of ammo for Rome when I'm in the mood.
There are no replies to Comment # 147. End Trace Mode for Comment # 147.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latesta Protestant denomination that observes Sabbath on Saturday as recorded in the Bible, sued the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association (WIAA)
#14. To: watchman (#1)
I can't get behind this.
#19. To: misterwhite, redleghunter (#14)
I'm with you. I'm all for religious freedom, but when you commit to a team you commit to their rules -- which clearly stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty.
#24. To: Tooconservative (#19)
#31. To: misterwhite (#24)
Yay, heathen though I may be, rules are rules.
#32. To: Tooconservative (#31)
You're saying you want to disqualify athletes on the basis of religious practice.
#35. To: misterwhite (#32)
Let's keep in mind, SHE refused to play. It's not as though the WIAA didn't allow her to play on the basis of her religious practice.
#41. To: Tooconservative (#35)
No, the WIAA decided to schedule games to punish the participation of these athletes who the WIAA had cause to know would not participate on their sabbath.
#42. To: misterwhite, watchman (#41)
#44. To: Tooconservative (#42)
Seems to be about what most of you think about the 4th commandment and any idea of keeping a sabbath holy (whatever that entails).
#46. To: misterwhite (#44)
You are turning this issue into a grand theological debate when it only affect two fanatics who interpret the fourth commandment differently than everyone else.
#49. To: Tooconservative (#46)
it is only "fanatics" that would insist on observing the 4th commandment in any meaningful way
#50. To: misterwhite (#49)
They insist on changing the rules of a crappy bush league sport which affected nobody before they showed up and will affect nobody when they leave.
#51. To: Tooconservative (#50)
You fear that this might spread or you wouldn't be so vehement against these Adventist commandment fanatics.
#52. To: misterwhite (#51)
Two people, for purely selfish reasons, changing the rules for participants from 800 statewide schools through threat of legal action just so they can play under their interpretation of the fourth commandment.
#55. To: Tooconservative (#52)
And good for them. They adhere to their religion.
#61. To: misterwhite (#55)
What if they strictly adhered to Leviticus 20:13 in the Bible:
Should we change the laws to accommodate them? Is it still, "Good for them"?
#63. To: Tooconservative (#61)
I don't even understand why you want to drag sodomy into an issue about reasonable accommodation of religious observance of the 4th commandment.
#67. To: misterwhite (#63)
If you're willing to change the rules to accommodate the religious observance of the 4th commandment (that apparently only two people observe), I'm asking if you're willing to change the rules (laws) to accommodate the religious observance of the Bible -- specifically Leviticus 20:13?
#73. To: Tooconservative (#67)
Why progress to the regulation of sodomy if you can't even agree on keeping the sabbath holy?
#77. To: misterwhite (#73)
Are you saying I have to keep the sabbath holy? I think I see your problem. And it is your problem.
#79. To: Tooconservative (#77)
Anti-sabbath Christians don't appeal to me.
#83. To: misterwhite (#79)
(Edited)
She was free to follow her faith. No one interfered with that.
#87. To: Tooconservative (#83)
to demand her God-given right to worship as she pleases
#90. To: misterwhite (#87)
Who took away her God-given right to worship as she pleases?
#101. To: Tooconservative (#90)
The weekend tennis Nazis, that's who.
#105. To: misterwhite, Vicomte13, A K A Stone, watchman (#101)
For the third (fourth?) time, no one is forcing her to play. She's free to worship any time she wants.
#110. To: Tooconservative (#105)
since the idea of keeping a sabbath is so repugnant to you
#111. To: watchman (#110)
Are they going to shut down the ski team, the golf team, the track and field team, the debate team, the basketball team, the marching band, the Junior and Senior Prom, the foreign student exchange program, the Senior Trip...most of which meet and compete on weekends.
#113. To: Tooconservative (#111)
And would you mind if they just moved all the Saturday sports events to Sundays?
#115. To: watchman (#113)
If they did move sports to Sunday, I would not sue them, and demand they bend to my religion...never.
Let them make Sunday a school day, a work day. Let them make laws that prohibit me from assembling (as already happens around the world).
I am not a snow flake...
#117. To: Tooconservative (#115)
No. You're a doormat.
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
To my great shame, I have come no where near to attaining this verse.
#118. To: watchman (#117)
#119. To: Tooconservative (#118)
I was hoping you'd help resolve those contradictions in 1 Corinthians.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days
since the idea of keeping a sabbath is so repugnant to you
your (nominal) sabbath
#120. To: watchman (#119)
(Edited)
...because you were judging me in respect to how I kept, or regarded, the Sabbath.
#121. To: Tooconservative (#120)
why do you care if the Adventists do take their sabbath seriously?
#123. To: watchman (#121)
(Edited)
TC, the Sabbath and all the holy days were just a "shadow" of things to come...namely Christ. Read it...it's right there in the Bible.
BibleGateway: 1 Peter 3 KJV 12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
13 And who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. BibleGateway: Luke 23 KJV 39And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
43And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
#124. To: Tooconservative (#123)
he went and preached unto the spirits in prison
#125. To: watchman (#124)
Why do you say "foreshadowing" is tiresome? Just curious.
#132. To: Tooconservative (#125)
It becomes an excuse to pretend the OT is still relevant, even in its most obscure and inapplicable passages.
#139. To: Vicomte13 (#132)
Target achieved. Exactly right. Perfect. What he said.
#143. To: Tooconservative (#139)
I appreciate the appreciation. However, I've posted about the mischief of heresy and false doctrines caused by misuse of the OT about as many times as you've posted about red letter quotes.
#147. To: Vicomte13 (#143)
But THIS time you didn't tangle it up with some "defense of MY doctrine" or Catholic-bashing nonsense.
Replies to Comment # 147.
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