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Title: High School tennis stars score religious liberty victory in Washington state
Source:
The Daily Sheeple
URL Source: https://www.thedailysheeple.com/hig ... y-victory-in-washington-state/
Published: Aug 31, 2019
Author: Sean Walton
Post Date: 2019-09-01 12:24:22 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 10022
Comments: 185
Siblings Joseph & Joelle Chung Two high school tennis stars scored a religious liberty victory in Washington state after being kicked off the court for their faith. The Chung siblings, Joseph, 15, and Joelle, 17, both Seventh-day Adventists, a Protestant denomination that observes Sabbath on Saturday as recorded in the Bible, sued the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association (WIAA) earlier this month after Joelle was disqualified from her final state tennis postseason competition because she doesn’t play on Saturdays. The Chung family, represented by Becket, a religious liberty law firm, filed a motion to withdraw their federal suit on Tuesday after WIAA agreed to add religious observance to its reasons for missing games without being penalized. Paul Chung, Joelle’s father, told “The Ingraham Angle” earlier this month that his daughter, who was undefeated on the court, valued her commitment to God more than tennis. “She was disappointed that she couldn’t help the team but she shouldn’t have to choose between religion and playing tennis,” Chung said. Joe Davis, Becket counsel and attorney for the Chungs, told Fox News Friday “it’s an important win for religious student-athletes in Washington and sets a favorable precedent nationwide.” “It’s common sense that Sabbath observers shouldn’t be excluded from any postseason sports competition at all just because of the hypothetical possibility of a schedule conflict somewhere down the line—and after the rule change, they won’t be.” WIAA denied her family’s request for a religious accommodation last season because WIAA’s previous rules stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. WIAA had no exception for sincerely-held religious beliefs. “For the Chung family, keeping the Sabbath holy is a serious commitment,” Becket, a religious liberty law firm, wrote in a complaint filed Aug. 6. The Chungs, both playing for William F. West High School, had conflicts with the WIAA’s state championship schedule, which included a Saturday. While Joelle had to sit out her final postseason play, Joseph, a rising sophomore, was set to have the same fate this year before the rule change. “We’re hopeful that the WIAA will take the next step and eliminate the schedule conflicts altogether, as the law requires,” Davis added. Delivered by The Daily Sheeple
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
She was disappointed that she couldn’t help the team I can't get behind this. If she is part of a team that is counting on her, she should fulfill her obligations. Other athletes are counting on her participation. It is not fair to them. I realize she is Seven Day Adventist, but if Sabbath worship is that important she should withdraw from the team. And...she sued the WIAA costing them money to defend themselves! I worship on Sunday. If my church has athletes that need to play on Sunday then they need to go and play. Church will still be there when they finish the season. Not to mention, I work seven days a week...and God blesses me mightily.
Other athletes are counting on her participation. It is not fair to them. I realize she is Seven Day Adventist, but if Sabbath worship is that important she should withdraw from the team. Oh, okay. So you would think that's fine for other sabbath-keepers too? Let's rewrite your statement with another group. Other athletes are counting on her participation. It is not fair to them. I realize she is So maybe we should just make some rules that Jews need not apply and Seventh Day Adventists need not apply. And people who think that schools should hold their sports and other events during their own working hours Monday-Friday should not apply. Personally, I don't think they should allow sports and school events on weekends. At all. Let the kids and families have their time free. The same applies to early starts for summer practice for kids' sports.
Other athletes are counting on her participation. It is not fair to them. I realize she is Seven Day Adventist, but if Sabbath worship is that important she should withdraw from the team. Would you say the same things about Eric Liddel?
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. Sure, why not? Never heard of him before. And don't give a hoot who he was. Apparently a distance runner and missionary, judging by a quick read of the DDG synopis. I assume he was some sort of sabbatarian (that is the official term for those who keep a sabbath even if they can't agree which day of the week is the sabbath). Nope, I don't care who he was and I don't think he is relevant to my wise and well-informed opinions on the policy issue. BTW, did you actually know who this Liddell was or see some documentary about him or what? Given how long ago he died, you either did a search engine hit job to search for such an example or you knew of him before you ever read my post. So, which is it, did you know and care who Liddell was before you read my post or are you just being a search-engine-smartass?
Sure, why not? Never heard of him before. And don't give a hoot who he was. Ever seen the movie Chariots of Fire? He was portrayed in that film - won some Oscars I believe, Best Picture being one. Liddell was born in China to Scottish missionary parents. He attended boarding school near London, spending time when possible with his family in Edinburgh, and afterwards attended the University of Edinburgh. At the 1924 Summer Olympics in Paris, Liddell refused to run in the heats for his favoured 100 metres because they were held on a Sunday. Instead he competed in the 400 metres held on a weekday, a race that he won.
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. Didn't know who he was until I saw the movie when it came out in 1981. Gee whiz, I thought everyone had at least heard of his story or had seen the movie.
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. I saw that movie. Most boring movie ever to win best picture. Yawn.
The sabbath is truly on Saturday. I wonder why people changed gods day that he said to remember. I'm included in that.
I wonder why people changed gods day that he said to remember. Blame the Catholics. Catholic Church Admits They Made the Change In the Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, we read: In Catholic Christian Instructed, God warned that a blasphemous power would “seek to change times and laws,” and the Catholic Church openly admits doing it, even boasts about it. In a sermon at the Council of Trent in 1562, the Archbishop of Reggia, Caspar del Fossa, claimed that the Catholic Church’s whole authority is based upon the fact that they changed the Sabbath to Sunday. Does this not fulfill the prophecies of Daniel and Paul?
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. I was aware that the Catholics were involved. It was kind of a rhetorical question. I asked my former pastor one day about it. He said paraphrasing here that it was important to keep the 7 day cycle but not the actual day. I'm just relaying what I was told. Not that I agree with it.
Big deal. Everyone engaged in animal husbandry works seven days a week. Even sabbath-keeping Jews will hire Christians to work on their sabbath. Even the heathen do the same. But what you are really saying is that sabbath-keeping is completely unimportant and completely inconsequential to you when compared to important events like voluntary sports participation related to schools (or church leagues). But the Apostle Paul certainly gave strong warning against pursuing athletics as a worthy Christian pursuit. And that is scripture. And then you need to contend with the Ten Commandments. 2I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13Thou shalt not kill. 14Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15Thou shalt not steal. 16Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. The first commandment forbids worshiping false gods (other gods, monotheism and Jehovian supremacy). The second commandment forbids the worship of idols or depiction of religious events or ideas as any sort of art. And it goes on about it for three verses, to drive its point home and leave no wiggle room. The third commandment crisply forbids cursing in the name of God or by the name(s) of God. The fourth commandment is about keeping the sabbath. It also goes on at some length - through four verses total - to eliminate all the loopholes and clever dodges of this prohibition. And commandments 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 (parents, killing, adultery (but not fornication!) stealing, false witness, covetousness) are all completely unimportant if you don't bother to observe the key commandments on monotheism, idols, cursing and keeping the sabbath holy. Maybe we should just toss all these commandments, once and for all. It seems very few Christians have any interest in being inconvenienced by any of them. They are more honored in the observance than in the breach, to use a classic phrase. But didn't Jesus quote nine of the 10 commandments Himself? Including the one on keeping the sabbath? But we can't allow Jesus quoting some musty old scripture ruin the fun of some young people who want to play sporting events in some amateur league. Why, that would be more horrible than crucifying them in public for their faith! So, what we need to do is just accept that keeping any sabbath is just plain stupid and only for the gullible or for cult members or just some dusty old idea that's been hanging around since ancient times and which only serves the interest of the priests (Jewish or Catholic) who find it lucrative and a source of personal power to condition their flocks to accept the necessity of keeping the sabbath (and also to staking a claim to their followers schedule on a sabbath so they can schedule other lucrative or power-seeking over their flocks). Well, unless any of that conflicts with the scheduling of some puny local sports league. Then, heaven be damned, we can just toss out all those commandments and all that scripture as unimportant, no longer relevant, not applicable to Christians, etc. if it happens to be inconvenient to the scheduling of a T-ball game for toddlers. The sabbath isn't important really. It's downright inconvenient when you think about it. Or maybe it's just: my sabbath good, your sabbath bad or inconsequential.
It is. Why won't more churches face up to that? They preach it but they refuse to practice what they actually do preach from their pulpits. Cowards. Hypocrites. And they relinquish much of their power when they allow their day to be taken away for secular purposes. Soon, you won't get certain jobs if you won't work on a sabbath. You won't get a spot on the sports team if you keep the sabbath. You won't get invited to certain social events if you keep the sabbath. All because the churches didn't want to keep the sabbath. In the last 25 years, people are now forced to work Sundays. Christians have to work on Christmas and Easter (Passover). I think most states sell liquor on sabbaths too. Personally, I have always objected to downgrading the sabbath, even for secular people. Close the stores and other other businesses. Make it clear that they will face consequences if they do open and try to conduct business, protect their employees from being exploited by their employers on the sabbath. But then, the churches and synagogues would actually have to care and be willing to put their foot down in order to make keeping the sabbath a standard public policy. We had it until only a few decades back. Now we treat the idea as somehow being so odd. Yet over half of American society does clearly recall when that was exactly what we did. And it was considered a plus, for people to be able to worship, to be able to have family time together when parents weren't working and kids weren't in school.
My wife was fired from work at a steak house she was working at in the 90's for skipping a meeting and going to church in the morning. It was Sunday. Yeah i'm as bad as the rest of you.
I'm with you. I'm all for religious freedom, but when you commit to a team you commit to their rules -- which clearly stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty. I'm sorry but it really pisses me off reading where people (once again) know the rules, break the rules, then seek redress.
I saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yesterday. It could take that title away.
I was thinking about seeing that movie. I still might. Maybe you just have a different taste then I do in movies. Or maybe I would agree with you.
I saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yesterday. It could take that title away. Interesting - I thought you were a big Tarantino fan?
Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen. Sabbath breaker!
How dare a Christian or a Jew actually consider the solemn obligations of their religious observance around which revolves the eternal fate of their soul to actually be a higher obligation than playing an optional team sport so they can help The Team get a chance to win some crappy plastic trophy with hastily engraved lettering in a church youth league! Now you want to prevent those faithful and committed Christians (and Jews) from suing their way to victory over the Sabbath. Well, these fine young Adventists intend to win that trophy and still go to heaven to hang out at the bosom of Abraham with Lazarus. The rest of you will be hanging out with the Rich Man in hell, begging them to send Lazarus to warn your brethren not to play team sports on Sundays.
I'm a big Quentin Tarantino fan and have seen all his movies more than once. I was disappointed by this one. Great acting and cinematography, though.
I wonder why people changed gods day that he said to remember. I'm included in that. We didn't change the Sabbath Day...but we did change the day we worship! The precedent is found in Scripture. Note the use of THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK...(emp mine) The "first day of the week" is now called Sunday. At the Resurrection Jesus appeared on a Sunday. The disciples began to assemble, break bread, and listen to preaching on Sunday. Offerings of money were to be made on Sunday. The we see John "in the Spirit" on the "Lord's Day". Christians don't usually call Sunday the Sabbath Day. We call it the Lord's Day.
We don't have to make these rules! The observant Jews do not bother anybody about their day of worship. They just close up go home and observe the Sabbath. They certainly don't sue to close down Gentile sports. So if the Seven Day Adventist demand non-Christains observe Saturday, and the rest of Christians demand non-Christians to observe Sunday...when DO they get to play their college and pro sports? We Christians are choosing to be part of THEIR sports. What gall we have in making demands that they accommodate us! By the way, let's see this chick or any of her fellow Seven Day Adventist start suing the NCAA. She be an instant martyr! lol Here's a thought...if God has given you the ability to hit or catch a ball, or run like crazy...go out and use that talent to be an example for Christ among those non-Christians. I love to see Christian athletes out there on Saturday and Sunday being an example for Christ!
I don't know his story completely but I do note some important differences between him and Joseph & Joelle Chung. Firstly, Liddel took a stand for Sunday observance. He had the majority of Christendom behind him. Second, he took a stand in a different era all together. Back in his day, Christians closed up shop, work stopped and people went to church. It was a big deal! Try to do something like that now and all you are going to do is alienate everybody and/or confuse them. Times have change, for better or worse. Third, I note that he chose an event he COULD run in and won that!
Yay, heathen though I may be, rules are rules.
I'm sorry that she was fired. That is a painful thing no matter how it happens. Did she make any arrangements before hand with management? Was management particularly negative against Christians. Just some questions... Stone, do you observe Sabbath (Saturday) worship? As noted, your wife observes Sunday. Some areas of the country are more Sunday oriented. More businesses close, even non-Christian ones out of respect. In those areas a Christian could miss a business meeting and the management would just factor your absence right in. "Where's so-and-so? Oh, yeah, they went to church."
I do have sympathy for that situation. Maybe the steak houses shouldn't open up so early so their employees can attend services and have some family time. Even waiting to open at 11am would help a lot. This is something that was once taken for granted, that businesses would routinely close on Sunday or would open later. A business should really be up front when hiring employees that they may be required to work on Sundays. I think people would prefer that most businesses close on Sunday. We don't require federal mail service 7 days a week and it doesn't cause much problem to close the post offices on Sundays. The panicked mobs have not rioted for lack of Sunday U.S. mail services.
My point is: at the present time I do not observe Saturday or Sunday. God seems like He's okay with it. He understands that I farm. He understands that Christians play sports on Saturday or Sunday. We are not under the Law! Nobody can keep the Law anyway. Except Christ keeps it for us! There is no Law that says: if you don't go to Church you'll be stoned to death.
They never opened on Sunday morning. It was a one time special meeting. Or perhaps occasionally.
Well, these Adventists differ with you. And they have lawyers apparently.
I would side with your wife if she sued them. There are no special steakhouse emergencies that require Sunday attendance. It sounds like wrongful termination.
You're saying you want to disqualify athletes on the basis of religious practice. It is interesting to see a sabbatarian court case. In 2019. With two Adventist athletes. The Chung family may be on the verge of setting vital legal precedent.
I don't want to, but they knew the rules when they signed up. Let's keep in mind, SHE refused to play. It's not as though the WIAA didn't allow her to play on the basis of her religious practice.
This is how it was when I was a kid. High School football was on Friday nights...only. I was shocked when I found out that high schools in other parts of the country had games on Saturday. I remember this because I photographed high school sports and I thought how nice it would be to photograph a daytime game. Of course, week day games would never work for college and pro. It's not going to happen...well, aside from Monday Night Football and Thursday Night Football.
Maybe you'd be even happier if Christian athletes were free to spend Sunday in worship and demand that society honor their commitment to their lord and savior, Jesus Christ. Wouldn't that be just as good? Wouldn't it be better? But perhaps you prefer instead to insist to young people that their religious practice (unless Muslim or pagan) is completely unimportant compared to playing games that less then 0.1% of them will ever get a full scholarship to play in college, let alone play professionally. Or is it that you just don't like having a sabbath at all and don't want any dusty old bible verse telling you to "remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy", the same way that Jesus Himself kept it holy?
No, the WIAA decided to schedule games to punish the participation of these athletes who the WIAA had cause to know would not participate on their sabbath. The WIAA could have scheduled around these conflicts but they chose exclusion and persecution, possibly depriving these athletes of a chance to earn a scholarship. Surprising how anti-Christian some Christians suddenly are when you pit something they actually like (high school sports) against something they don't really like, like some cruddy old 4th Commandment that stretches on through multiple verses about keeping the sabbath holy and no dodging the rule cleverly. So should this rule you like requiring participation on a sabbath apply to Christians only? Should it apply to Muslims? How about Jews? Would you allow Jews to keep the 4th commandment and not punish them for it?
Well, if they are building a career, using their God given talents, they may have to miss some church, wouldn't you say? Christians aren't known for making demands The Bible says "Not by power, nor by might, but by the Spirit" Now, please tell how YOU keep the Sabbath holy...
Ah, you don't like the mention of keeping the sabbath holy. That's okay. There's a lot of people now who are hostile to the very idea of holiness. People don't want to measure their own lives against a word like "holiness". It's funny how "keeping the sabbath" devolved in Western countries over last century or two. "Keeping the sabbath" turned into "attend church for an hour or so on Sunday morning". And the "keep it holy" part kind of disappeared from Christian thinking altogether. Along with wisdom, holiness has disappeared as being among the most desirable traits - really the most essential traits - that any Christian can develop over decades. I can't recall the last time I heard a sermon extolling holiness, holy living or prayer to ask God to impart His grace and His wisdom to us. When I was young, we still heard a few sermons like that a year. We're too busy on Facebook to pursue wisdom. Holiness will have to wait until after we get a few more spiritualish tattoos on our thighs. It hasn't been all that long since the pursuit of holiness and wisdom were sermon topics heard in any church in America. You had churches that were all about holiness and holy living, like the old Wesleyan holiness churches. They were quite strict about courtship, secular entertainment, etc. Maybe they've all died out and their great-grandchildren are a bunch of tranny atheists or something like that. You do notice, though, that people don't seem to want to measure their lives against any yardstick of holiness.
Might I conclude you don't like it either? I have asked how YOU keep the Sabbath holy... What day do you consider to be the Sabbath...Saturday? Sunday? For instance, do you refrain from posting on the Sabbath? (Would you be found quarreling on those Sabbath posts). Do you attend church or temple? Do you shop for groceries on Sabbath? Go out to eat? My Mennonite folks will not even answer the phone on Sunday. How exactly do YOU keep the Sabbath holy?
I don't care that much. I'm more interested in how people reconcile their use of scripture to how they conduct their lives. It's a total disconnect. In the vast majority of churches, they only invoke the fury of OT writings for That Stuff that they don't like. Not because it is a great sin but because they have fewer things they agree to be publicly condemning about. What I'm waiting for is the invention of the sinless church for the sinless Christians. We're almost there. And I don't give out very much personal info online. An old habit. And this is an anonymous chat board after all. I get it, the idea of being totally holy on the sabbath. But what if that phone call was to summon them to put out a small fire near their church. And by not answering the phone, their church burns to the ground and requires they restrict their missionary funding and their local charity efforts for years. Answering a phone is not unholy on any day of the week. Do they think, perhaps, it is only unholy on Sunday but perfectly holy the rest of the week? Or are they willing to compromise with the sin of phone use 6 days a week but go for holiness only on the sabbath. The phrase "to keep it holy" can be read several ways. You might keep it holy by dedicating a whole day of worship and family activity and charity work. That probably counts as holiness in any Christian church. However, there is a minimalist element of observation of the sabbath: the one day a week you avoid doing unholy things. The one day a week you really restrain your usual impulses to gossip or overlook the needy or break traffic laws or see your mistress or spend a little alone time with Pornhub, well, whatever your usual sin habits are. I've been interested in this sabbatarianism for many years. From farmers doing no work on Sunday (unless a heifer is calving) down to "no gross sins on Sunday" and now to Christians who resent other Christians who do observe a sabbath day faithfully and expect their civil rights to be respected by society. And so we have misterwhite and you on this thread, expressing considerable resentment toward these two Adventists who expect to have their sabbath respected? What, do they think they deserve equal rights with Muslims or Jews or something? They're going to ruin everything with their sabbath nonsense!
Never gonna happen. As long as we are in this world we are going to sin. The church is made up of sinners. Paul, speaking in the present tense, is saying he is, at that moment, the chief of sinners...what does that say about the rest of us Christians? Thanks, TC, I appreciate your answers.
Oh? They said that? Or are you just making shit up again? "So should this rule you like requiring participation on a sabbath apply to Christians only?" She wasn't "required" to do shit. She chose not to participate, knowing full well she would be disqualified. The rules were written long before she signed up. They apply to everyone. She wanted the league to make an exception just for her.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latesta Protestant denomination that observes Sabbath on Saturday as recorded in the Bible, sued the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association (WIAA)
#2. To: watchman (#1)
If she is part of a team that is counting on her, she should fulfill her obligations.
If she is part of a team that is counting on her, she should fulfill her obligations. Seven Day Adventist Jewish, but if Sabbath worship is that important she should withdraw from the team.
#3. To: watchman, Tooconservative (#1)
f she is part of a team that is counting on her, she should fulfill her obligations.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#4. To: Deckard, watchman (#3)
(Edited)
Would you say the same things about Eric Liddel?
#5. To: Tooconservative (#4)
(Edited)
Would you say the same things about Eric Liddel?
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#6. To: Tooconservative (#4)
BTW, did you actually know who this Liddell was or see some documentary about him or what?
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#7. To: Deckard (#5)
Ever seen the movie Chariots of Fire?
#8. To: watchman (#1)
#9. To: A K A Stone (#8)
The sabbath is truly on Saturday.
Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea, (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday….
Q. Has the [Catholic] church power to make any alterations in the commandments of God?
A. ...Instead of the seventh day, and other festivals appointed by the old law, the church has prescribed the Sundays and holy days to be set apart for God’s worship; and these we are now obliged to keep in consequence of God’s commandment, instead of the ancient Sabbath.
—The Catholic Christian Instructed in the Sacraments, Sacrifices, Ceremonies, and Observances of the Church By Way of Question and Answer, RT Rev. Dr. Challoner, p. 204.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#10. To: Deckard (#9)
#11. To: watchman, Vicomte13 (#1)
I worship on Sunday. If my church has athletes that need to play on Sunday then they need to go and play. Church will still be there when they finish the season.
Not to mention, I work seven days a week...and God blesses me mightily.
In the Bible, as here in the Ten Commandments, when you enumerate a list of rights or duties, the most important ones and the ones upon which the authorities all agree upon are listed first. Those which are more controversial or which are added centuries later, appear later in the list. BibleHub: Exodus 20 KJV 1And God spake all these words, saying, BibleGateway: Mark 2 KJV 27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
#12. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13, watchman, redleghunter (#8)
The sabbath is truly on Saturday.
#13. To: Tooconservative (#12)
#14. To: watchman (#1)
I can't get behind this.
#15. To: A K A Stone (#7)
I saw that movie. Most boring movie ever to win best picture. Yawn.
#16. To: misterwhite (#15)
I saw Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yesterday. It could take that title away.
#17. To: misterwhite (#15)
Most boring movie ever to win best picture. Yawn.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.
#18. To: A K A Stone (#13)
Yeah i'm as bad as the rest of you.
#19. To: misterwhite, redleghunter (#14)
I'm with you. I'm all for religious freedom, but when you commit to a team you commit to their rules -- which clearly stated that if an athlete could not commit to playing in every level of the tournament, barring injury or illness, they were not allowed to participate at all and would be subject to penalty.
#20. To: A K A Stone (#16)
I was thinking about seeing that movie. I still might. Maybe you just have a different taste then I do in movies. Or maybe I would agree with you.
#21. To: A K A Stone (#8)
The sabbath is truly on Saturday.
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Then the same day at evening, being THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
And upon THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Upon THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
I was in the Spirit ON THE LORD'S DAY, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
#22. To: Tooconservative (#2)
So maybe we should just make some rules that Jews need not apply
#23. To: Deckard (#5)
(Edited)
Would you say the same things about Eric Liddel?
#24. To: Tooconservative (#19)
#25. To: A K A Stone (#13)
My wife was fired from work at a steak house she was working at in the 90's for skipping a meeting and going to church in the morning. It was Sunday.
#26. To: A K A Stone (#13)
My wife was fired from work at a steak house she was working at in the 90's for skipping a meeting and going to church in the morning. It was Sunday.
#27. To: Tooconservative (#11)
Big deal. Everyone engaged in animal husbandry works seven days a week.
#28. To: Tooconservative (#26)
I do have sympathy for that situation. Maybe the steak houses shouldn't open up so early so their employees can attend services and have some family time. Even waiting to open at 11am would help a lot.
#29. To: watchman (#27)
God seems like He's okay with it. He understands that I farm. He understands that Christians play sports on Saturday or Sunday.
#30. To: A K A Stone (#28)
They never opened on Sunday morning. It was a one time special meeting.
#31. To: misterwhite (#24)
Yay, heathen though I may be, rules are rules.
#32. To: Tooconservative (#31)
You're saying you want to disqualify athletes on the basis of religious practice.
#33. To: Tooconservative (#2)
Personally, I don't think they should allow sports and school events on weekends. At all. Let the kids and families have their time free. The same applies to early starts for summer practice for kids' sports.
#34. To: watchman (#22)
I love to see Christian athletes out there on Saturday and Sunday being an example for Christ!
#35. To: misterwhite (#32)
Let's keep in mind, SHE refused to play. It's not as though the WIAA didn't allow her to play on the basis of her religious practice.
#36. To: Tooconservative (#34)
Maybe you'd be even happier if Christian athletes were free to spend Sunday in worship
and demand that society honor their commitment...
#37. To: watchman (#36)
Now, please tell how YOU keep the Sabbath holy...
#38. To: Tooconservative (#37)
Ah, you don't like the mention of keeping the sabbath holy.
#39. To: watchman (#38)
(Edited)
Might I conclude you don't like it either?
My Mennonite folks will not even answer the phone on Sunday.
#40. To: Tooconservative (#39)
What I'm waiting for is the invention of the sinless church for the sinless Christians. We're almost there.
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 1Tim. 1:15
#41. To: Tooconservative (#35)
No, the WIAA decided to schedule games to punish the participation of these athletes who the WIAA had cause to know would not participate on their sabbath.
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