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Title: PA man convicted of firing ‘finger gun’ at neighbor
Source: From The Trenches
URL Source: https://fromthetrenchesworldreport. ... -finger-gun-at-neighbor/253427
Published: Aug 30, 2019
Author: Victor Skinner
Post Date: 2019-08-31 14:33:55 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 957
Comments: 15

American Mirror – by Victor Skinner

A Pennsylvania man was fined $100, plus court costs, for waving a finger gun at his neighbor, who reportedly felt “extremely threatened” by the ordeal.

The incident occurred last June when 64-year-old Manor Township resident Stephen Kirchner was walking in his neighborhood with a female neighbor and a homeowner who had a simmering dispute with the woman flipped him two middle fingers, he told police.

Court records allege Kirchner then “stopped, made eye contact with (the male neighbor) and then made a hand gesture at him imitating the firing and recoiling of a gun,” Fox News reports.

The pretend shooting was caught on cameras installed by the homeowner as part of the dispute with Kirchner’s female companion, who was also the subject of a no-contact order, according to WGAL.

The gesture allegedly made the targeted neighbor feel “extremely threatened,” while another who witnessed the reckless finger firing told police she also felt “insecure” about the situation and called 911.

Police issued Kirchner a citation for disorderly conduct and he was convicted in January after testifying in his own defense. Kirchner did not deny he made the gesture, but said it was in response to the neighbor who “gave (him) the finger with both hands,” according to court records.

Kirchner appealed the conviction and “argued on appeal that the gesture did not cause a hazardous or physical offensive condition, that he did not intend to cause public alarm, and that there essentially was no harm done to the victim or society,” according to a statement from the DA’s office to WGAL.

The Superior Court of Pennsylvania on Tuesday disagreed with Kirchner’s argument and concluded he did create a “hazardous condition” when he popped off his finger gun because it “risked an altercation.”

“… Kirchner … approached (the neighbor) in his own backyard, created a gun-like hand gesture, pointed it at (the neighbor), and made a recoil motion as if to suggest he had shot him,” according to the court ruling. “This act served no legitimate purpose, and recklessly risked provoking a dangerous situation.”

The court found Kirchner “did, in fact, cause public alarm, annoyance or inconvenience” because the neighbor “felt extremely threatened and (the neighbor witness) felt insecure enough following her observation of the incident that she called emergency services.

“The (lower) court concluded that Kirchner’s conduct ‘caused the very harm sought to be prevented by the law defining the offense’” and the Superior Court could “discern no abuse of discretion of this analysis,” according to the ruling.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 7.

#1. To: Deckard (#0)

Court records allege Kirchner then “stopped, made eye contact with (the male neighbor) and then made a hand gesture at him imitating the firing and recoiling of a gun,” Fox News reports.

The pretend shooting was caught on cameras installed by the homeowner as part of the dispute with Kirchner’s female companion, who was also the subject of a no-contact order, according to WGAL.

Kinda stupid to make handgun gestures toward someone who already has a non-contact court order against you. The gesture can never be a friendly one in any way.

There's more to this story of hostile neighbors than we are reading in this article.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-31   14:38:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Tooconservative (#1) (Edited)

Kinda stupid to make handgun gestures toward someone who already has a non-contact court order against you.

I disagree. Even tho the burden to “stay away” is on the defendant/respondent, they were still BOTH in a public access area. They both live in the same neighborhood. So, I feel he should be allowed his constitutional freedoms, around his home. This was a bad ruling... and a slippery slope of loss of 1st amendment protections. To wit; a finger gun is harmless... who gives a shit if the plaintiff is a scared fucking sheep.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-08-31   15:48:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: GrandIsland, nolu chan, Deckard (#2)

Even tho the burden to “stay away” is on the defendant/respondent, they were still BOTH in a public access area.

True. And they are neighbors so there is a limit to how much the judge's order can separate them without it running afoul of their equal right to choose the location of their residency.

However, the guy making the pistol gesture had already lost in court by him and his GF having no-contact court orders filed against them. In any subsequent complaint, they were automatically disadvantaged unless another superior court judge could be persuaded to countermand the first judge. And the odds against that happening are very high.

There is a strategic advantage in being the first person to run to court and tell some lies or half-truths about your opponent, a dirty secret of the rule of law.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-31   17:41:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Tooconservative (#3)

There is a strategic advantage in being the first person to run to court and tell some lies or half-truths about your opponent, a dirty secret of the rule of law.

Well, in most cases, and most states, after a restraining order is issued (if it’s not part of a plea deal), there is a separate hearing to determine if there is just cause for it... so there is some due process.

I’d have felt better about the ruling if the issue was the defendant made “contact”, via a hand gesture, when any and all contact (including through third persons) was ordered to not happen. In this case, the arresting officer worked off the premises of “harassment” because the plaintiff was “scared” of a finger gun. I find that ridiculous, and a violation of his freedoms of expression.

Quite simply, I feel that society is being pussified, and that will play a large part in the indoctrination of over sensitivity, and an emotionally WEAK sheep, is easier to keep enabled.

I loath weakness. It is the single biggest enemy to our number one concern as a species... survival.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-08-31   18:09:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: GrandIsland (#5)

Well, in most cases, and most states, after a restraining order is issued (if it’s not part of a plea deal), there is a separate hearing to determine if there is just cause for it... so there is some due process.

We'd have to find out PA's laws and court precedents to know. And I know that you know that already.

I’d have felt better about the ruling if the issue was the defendant made “contact”, via a hand gesture, when any and all contact (including through third persons) was ordered to not happen. In this case, the arresting officer worked off the premises of “harassment” because the plaintiff was “scared” of a finger gun. I find that ridiculous, and a violation of his freedoms of expression.

I hate to defend the judge here but that hand gesture implies a threat if made to someone that a court has already determined has legal cause to fear you and restrain your freedom of action so they no longer feel threatened.

If you've already been adjudicated as legally threatening to some individual, stop trying to be cute and find other ways to threaten them with gestures and other types of threats. The judge will naturally see any such as not only a continuing threat to the protected individual but also as a direct challenge to the authority of the court.

As though you didn't already know that. I think you or I could argue either side of this one with equal ease.

Quite simply, I feel that society is being pussified, and that will play a large part in the indoctrination of over sensitivity, and an emotionally WEAK sheep, is easier to keep enabled. I loath weakness. It is the single biggest enemy to our number one concern as a species... survival.

Well, some people would rather run to court for a small filing fee to get the (fake) protection a court order will give them. Of course, it doesn't deter a truly determined aggressor at all. Their only alternative is to train physically or acquire firearms and enough range time to defend themselves. And that takes months and hundreds or thousands of dollars. The time needed and the financial resources are a lot more than just running to Da Judge to get a quick order to see if that solves it. Which it never really does anyway.

I loath weakness. It is the single biggest enemy to our number one concern as a species... survival.

I agree. I would say overall that I agree with Da Judge. Is it really that hard for people to just ignore their asshole neighbors and try to live in peace without constant provocation and gameplaying?

Maybe I can close with some words that I know that you will find inspiring:

  • People, I just want to say, you know, can we all JUST get along? Can we get along? Can we stop making it, making it horrible for the older people and the kids? … It’s just not right. It’s not right. It’s not, it’s not going to change anything. We’ll, we’ll get our justice … Please, we can get along here. We all can get along. I mean, we’re all stuck here for a while. Let’s try to work it out. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to beat it. Let’s try to work it out.
    • Rodney King appealing for calm during the Los Angeles riots (May 1, 1992)

LOL

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-31   18:20:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Tooconservative (#6)

Well, some people would rather run to court for a small filing fee to get the (fake) protection a court order will give them. Of course, it doesn't deter a truly determined aggressor at all.

I’ve never been a fan of Orders of Protection, PFA’s or Restraining Orders. They give a false sense of security, that causes WEAKNESS. They enable people to be weak.

When someone makes a gun gesture with their hand at you, instead of cowering in WEAKNESS, you should giggle in humor, knowing that asshole has a gun that will shoot a rubber band at best, and I’ve got a Glock model 30, tucked in my waist band. What a fool is he.

Instead, government wants to provide the illusion that they can protect you... because from that illusion and expectation, the government can sell to the sheeple that gun laws are needed... more illusions of safety.

GrandIsland  posted on  2019-08-31   18:33:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 7.

#9. To: GrandIsland (#7)

I’ve never been a fan of Orders of Protection, PFA’s or Restraining Orders. They give a false sense of security, that causes WEAKNESS. They enable people to be weak.

I'm sure you've noticed the government doesn't publish how many people get hurt or killed who have obtained a protection order. They just aren't effective at all against a truly dangerous person. They may even escalate the situation.

When someone makes a gun gesture with their hand at you, instead of cowering in WEAKNESS, you should giggle in humor, knowing that asshole has a gun that will shoot a rubber band at best, and I’ve got a Glock model 30, tucked in my waist band. What a fool is he.

But you're trained over decades, already own a pricey handgun that you know how to use and get free ammo to practice with. You're not that person who knows nothing about guns, has no guns, and suddenly feels threatened by a neighbor.

Instead, government wants to provide the illusion that they can protect you... because from that illusion and expectation, the government can sell to the sheeple that gun laws are needed... more illusions of safety.

And you're right that the establishment will always try to sell these ineffective remedies for personal safety. The truth is that the government and its workers will never care more about your life than you do. They will, however, dutifully show up 20-40 minutes too late to haul your corpse away if you do meet up with the dangerous individual and they kill you or injure you.

I still agree with Da Judge and the Superior Court overall though. We don't have a perfect system, we have the system we have. The defendant would have been well advised by his attorney to avoid any sort of deliberate provocation due to exactly the results we see in this case.

Tooconservative  posted on  2019-08-31 18:50:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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