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Foreign Invaders crisis cost $150B in 2023, forcing some areas to cut police and fire services: report Israel kills head of Hezbollah Intelligence. Status: Not Logged In; Sign In United States News See other United States News Articles Title: Trump To Address Nation Monday Over Mass Shootings, Says More Gun Control May Be Needed Source: Zero Hedge URL Source: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019 ... more-gun-control-may-be-needed Published: Aug 4, 2019 Author: Tyler Durden Post Date: 2019-08-05 10:44:33 by Deckard Keywords: None Views: 5137 Comments: 57 In the wake of multiple mass shootings over the weekend, President Trump told reporters in Morristown Airport before departing for the White House on Sunday that "hate has no place in our country and we're going to take care of it." As The Hill reports, Congressional Democrats, 2020 presidential candidates and others have rushed to draw comparisons between the motives of the El Paso shooter and Trump’s immigration rhetoric and suggested he helped fuel the environment that led to the attack. “Let’s be very clear about what is causing this and who the president is. He is an open avowed racist and encouraging more racism in this country,” former Rep. Beto O’Rourke (D-Texas), whose hometown is El Paso, said Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union.” Notably, however, even Trump nemesis, former FBI Director, Jim Comey admitted in his latest op-ed (albeit in the 20th paragraph) that: "...according to a 'manifesto' widely attributed to him, the Texas terrorist who killed at least 20 people in El Paso on Saturday wasn’t directly motivated by Donald Trump..." The president ignored shouted questions about whether the El Paso shooter's anti-immigrant manifesto shared similarities with his rhetoric and noted instead that the shootings are part of “a mental illness problem.” The president then added that he had spoken to Attorney General William Barr, FBI Director Christopher Wray, the Ohio and Texas governors as well as members of Congress. “We have to get it stopped,” he said. “This has been going on for years, for years and years in our country.” He added that "perhaps" more needs to be done with respect to gun control.  Trump added that he will deliver a formal statement on Monday at 10 a.m. Monday at the White House. On Saturday, a gunman entered an El Paso, Texas Walmart, killing 20 people and wounding 26 others. Less than 24 hours later, at least nine people were killed and 26 more injured when 24-year-old Connor Betts of Bellbrook Ohio used a .223 caliber rifle to open fire at a crowd on East 5th street in the city's popular downtown Oregon district. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: Deckard (#0) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. You are not going to legislate away occurrances that are already extremely rare. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-05   11:26:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #2. To: Pinguinite (#1) (Edited) You are not going to legislate away occurrances that are already extremely rare. However rare these might be it happens frequently and the significant factor is the availability of a particular type of weapon. We long ago learned not to stand under a tree in a thunder storm paraclete  posted on  2019-08-05   17:46:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #3. To: paraclete, Pinguinite, All (#2) You are more likely to be beaten to death by a blunt object such as a hammer than an AR15 rifle. You are more likely to be beaten to death by human fist/feet than a rifle, period. And all those combined will not touch being stabbed to death! The number 1 problem is mental illness and the left refuses to address the real reason. Truth is once you remove gangs out of the equation America is one of the safest places to live in the world. Just about the same amount of people are shot and killed in Chicago on a weekend(50shot/6killed on average). Its not the gun its the person. The people are mentally ill and have shown that they want to murder people but no one in government will listen or give a damn until blood is spilt. "Socialism corrupts and Democratic Socialism corrupts Absolutely"! Justified  posted on  2019-08-05   18:41:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #4. To: Deckard (#0) It will be under a Republican/conservative President that the guns are taken away. Just as it was under a Dem President that welfare reform passed. Big items make their most "hay" from the party that is seen as being against what is being pushed. THIS IS A TAG LINE...Exercising rights is only radical to two people, Tyrants and Slaves. Which are YOU? Our ignorance has driven us into slavery and we do not recognize it. jeremiad  posted on  2019-08-05   18:42:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #5. To: jeremiad (#4) America will long be dead before they take half the guns away. Police protect the people and the people protect the police. If the balance is broken then it will not be long before the republic dies a very horrible civil war death. "Socialism corrupts and Democratic Socialism corrupts Absolutely"! Justified  posted on  2019-08-05   18:48:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #6. To: Justified (#3) (Edited) You are more likely to be beaten to death by a blunt object such as a hammer than an AR15 rifle. I am certainly not likely to be murdered by an AR-15 rifle. What is mentally ill is the obsession with the gun. There is a complete disconnect between the fact that the AR-15 is the weapon of choice for these urban terrorists and its availability. People buy these guns and yet it must be obvious to someone that there is something odd about the situation. Everyone is wise after the fact about the shooter.. Let us examine this for a moment. There are millions of illegal handguns available but the weapon of choice is this "sporting" weapon. Why? because you don't have to go down a dark alley and associate with criminal types to buy one. These weapons belong in armories when not in use paraclete  posted on  2019-08-05   21:36:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #7. To: paraclete (#6) That's kind of like Hitler disarming the Jews. I believe you mean the best and are a decent person. But you lack common sense on the gun issue. Just remember Hitler and other tyrants love a disarmed popularion. A K A Stone  posted on  2019-08-05   22:04:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #8. To: Pinguinite (#1) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. Do you really believe that you can equate random physical characteristics of the Universe with irrational human behavior? buckeroo  posted on  2019-08-05   22:36:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #9. To: Deckard (#0) https://mobile.twitter.com/neiltyson/status/1158074774297468928 Neil deGrasse Tyson @neiltyson In the past 48hrs, the USA horrifically lost 34 people to mass shootings. On average, across any 48hrs, we also lose… 500 to Medical errors 300 to the Flu 250 to Suicide 200 to Car Accidents 40 to Homicide via Handgun Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data. 12:58 PM · Aug 4, 2019 nolu chan  posted on  2019-08-05   22:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #10. To: paraclete (#6) I am certainly not likely to be murdered by an AR-15 rifle. I bet the new Zealanders moslem thought the same. Guns are not the issue. Its the mentally ill people. That is and has always been the issue since western society decided to not deal with the mentally ill. Which encompasses liberal progressives(Which a study confirmed). Guns protect people. It makes a 100lb women equal to a 400lb man. God made man but Sam Colt made them equal! Fact is most mass shootings using hand guns and shot guns. Why do you want to punish the good citizens because of the mentally ill criminals? Look at London. They took away the gun and they still have gun crime. If they can not get guns they use knives or something else. Its so bad in London that they are banning knives!! OMG what's next ban good people from living in London?/s "Socialism corrupts and Democratic Socialism corrupts Absolutely"! Justified  posted on  2019-08-06   9:49:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #11. To: A K A Stone (#7) I didn't know Koodaid stands were so widely distributed paraclete  posted on  2019-08-08   20:13:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #12. To: Justified (#10) Why do you want to punish the good citizens because of the mentally ill criminals? I don't wish to punish good people and I think not only should the mentally ill not be allowed to own guns they should be locked up where they can't harm good people. Should we ban people from living in London or any over stuffed city. NO! we should ban weapons within their precincts paraclete  posted on  2019-08-08   20:17:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: buckeroo, Pinguinite (#8) Pinguinite: Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. Buekeroo: Do you really believe that you can equate random physical characteristics of the Universe with irrational human behavior? That was a really stupid question to ask. You must remember that Pinguinite is a libertarian. Anyone using sound practical judgment and having a discerning mind would be fully conscious of the fact that libertarians believe only what they want to believe. Therefore, instead of asking such a dumbass question – just check the data? Had you checked, then you would have found references showing the odds of death in mass shooting (US only): 1 in 11,125 while the odds of death by lightning strike (US only): 1 in 161,831. Conclusion: So it seems that it's actually a lot more likely for an American to die in a mass shooting than it is for us to die in lightning strikes. After realizing that we all have just witnessed one libertarian, Bucky, asking another libertarian, Pinguinite, if he “really believes” something – Then, this has gotta be the funniest thing we have read in a long while. Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   4:08:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #14. To: Gatlin (#13) 1 in 11,125 That number is bullshit. That would mean there are 29393 people killed in mass shootings in the usa each year. Not true. Which would mean 81 killed each day in mass shootings. I don't believe that. A K A Stone  posted on  2019-08-09   6:58:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #15. To: A K A Stone (#14) [The statistical odds of death in mass shooting (US only) is} 1 in 11,125 That number is bullshit. Bullshit? That would mean there are 29393 people killed in mass shootings in the usa each year. Not true. That [the computation of statistical odds] in no way mans “there are 29393 people killed in mass shootings in the usa each year. Which of course, is definitely “not true.” Which would mean 81 killed each day in mass shootings. I don't believe that. I don’t believe that either because the “statistical odds” does not “mean 81 killed each day in mass shootings. So, let’s examine what is true and what to believe. To begin, we must first understand that “statistical odds” are an “expression of relative probabilities” and in no way a prediction of something that will happen – is expected to happen – or a validation of anything that has happened. Are we clear on this? Hoping that we are, then let’s delve deeper and understand ... … the probability that an event will occur is the fraction of times you expect to see that event in many trials. Probabilities always range between 0 and 1. The odds are defined as the probability that the event will occur divided by the probability that the event will not occur. Now that we have that clear, we can then understand that if the probability of an event occurring is Y, then the probability of the event not occurring is 1- Y. I will cite you an example for further clarification: If the probability of an event is 0.80 (80%), then the probability that the event will not occur is 1-0.80 = 0.20, or 20%. So, we can now understand that the odds of an event represent the ratio of the (probability that the event will occur) / (probability that the event will not occur). Actually this can be expressed a follows in a formula: Odds of event = Y / (1-Y) In summary: The “statistical odds” by design allows for the calculation of a “relative risk” and should NEVER be looked upon as a “prediction.” I trust you now have a better perspective … Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   8:24:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #16. To: Gatlin (#15) Are we clear on this? No we are not even close. That statistics if determined by dividing the number of people in the country by the number of incidents. It is that simple. Made up numbers from your source are irrelevant. A K A Stone  posted on  2019-08-09   8:29:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #17. To: A K A Stone (#16) That statistics if determined by dividing the number of people in the country by the number of incidents. That be true of something that HAS happened, which is the way you are looking at it. That is not what the source was looking at. The number the source quoted is the “statistical probability” that something CAN happen. Are we closer to understanding? Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   8:41:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #18. To: A K A Stone (#17) You find the number “1-in-11,125” at a number of different source calculations. You can argue with ‘them” is you wish to. I have no reason to. I have obviously done a poor job of sharing this information with you, for which I apologize. Perhaps you can better understand the information if you read The odds that a gun will kill the average American may surprise you at https://www.businessinsider.com/us-gun-death-murder-risk-statistics-2018-3. This is yet another source that shows assaults by firearm kill about 13,000 people in the US each year, and this translates to a roughly 1-in-315 lifetime chance of death from gun violence. It also shows that the risk of dying in a mass shooting is about 35 times lower than that, with a 1-in-11,125 lifetime chance of death. This all I can possibly say on this. Enjoy your day … Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   9:22:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #19. To: Gatlin (#13) That was a really stupid question to ask. You must remember that Pinguinite is a libertarian. Anyone using sound practical judgment and having a discerning mind would be fully conscious of the fact that libertarians believe only what they want to believe. Therefore, instead of asking such a dumbass question – just check the data? This is one of the reasons I've put you on bozo. Your obsessiveness with libertarianism has just totally screwed your mind, and you cannot manage an intelligent debate without being condescending. Had you checked, then you would have found referenc-es showing the odds of death in mass shooting (US only): 1 in 11,125 while the odds of death by lightning strike (US only): 1 in 161,831. Conclusion: So it seems that it's actually a lot more likely for an American to die in a mass shooting than it is for us to die in lightning strikes. Number of people killed annually by lightning 2005 - 2014: 49 https://weather.com/storms/severe/news/lightning-deaths-by-state-2005-2014 Number of people killed annually by mass shootings, average 1982-2017: 27 https://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/ Stats can differ depending on the time periods analyzed. It could be that looking at this year alone would show mass shootings a couple times higher that lightning. If you only look at the single day of the Vegas shooting, then you'll certainly get a shooting figure far, far higher than lightning. But who cares about stats? You don't. You only care about disparaging libertarians. It's how you get your jollies. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   10:55:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #20. To: Gatlin (#18) You find the number “1-in-11,125” at a number of different source calculations. You can argue with ‘them” is you wish to. I have no reason to. I have no reason to either. My comparison of deaths was lightning to mass shootings, not death by gunfire, which maybe you were too stupid to understand. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   11:03:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: Pinguinite (#19) (Edited) You only care about disparaging libertarians. Not my "only" care. But .... How is that working out? Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   11:07:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: Pinguinite (#20) (Edited) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. My comparison of deaths was lightning to mass shootings, not death by gunfire, which maybe you were too stupid to understand. The question: “Is mass shooting deaths on par with getting killed by lightning?” No it isn’t. I would need to be really stupid – which I of course am not – to understand and believe the fake statistic you pulled out of your libertarian ass. In 2007, 45 people were killed by lightning in the USA. The average is 31 deaths per year. https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning- fatalities17 Last year there were 334 mass shootings resulting in 606 deaths. Overall there were 10,982 firearms homicides, not suicides, just murders. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the- u.s.-2017/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls You are over 19 times more likely to be killed in a mass shooting and 486 times more likely to be killed with a firearm than killed by lightning in the USA. Conclusion: Mass shooting deaths are DEFINITELY NOT on par with getting killed by lightning. Dictionary Definition of “on a par with” means “equal to.” Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   14:21:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: Gatlin (#22) Last year there were 334 mass shootings resulting in 606 deaths. Overall there were 10,982 firearms homicides, not suicides, just murders. I don't know where you get the mass shooting numbers you cite. Certainly don't see them on the link you gave. Also, using the "mass shooting" definition of 4 or more shooting deaths from a single incident, your stat doesn't fly because 606 deaths on 334 "mass shootings" only comes to an average of 1.8 deaths per "mass shooting". Wanna try again? Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   15:32:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Pinguinite (#23) … using the "mass shooting" definition of 4 or more shooting deaths from a single incident … No, you CANNOT ARBITARILY use a number you selected to define a “mass shooting.” Stop with the “using” shit. You libertarians continually lie and cheat to try to support your positions. I will never let you do that with me. There is no definition of the term "mass shooting" with respect to qny number of deaths. Dammit – You knew that yet you try to sleeze something by me. A mass shooting by its very nature is an incident involving multiple victims of firearm-related violence. Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   16:17:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: Pinguinite (#23) I don't know where you get the mass shooting numbers you cite. Certainly don't see them on the link you gave. I am not going t spoon feed you or fall to your tactic of placing me on the defensive. If you cannot find the numbers there – Then feel free to use any of the many charts available to get the mass shooting numbers for last year. Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   16:32:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: Pinguinite (#23) Wanna try again? Nope ... Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   16:33:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: Gatlin (#24) No, you CANNOT ARBITARILY use a number you selected to define a “mass shooting.” Sure I can. This is a claim I made, so I set the definitions. Yes, how very libertarian of me to define the terms I use. But it's not my definition. A net search shows that while there is no firm definition of a mass shooting, 4 deaths in a single shooting incident seems to be the most common definition. You libertarians continually lie and cheat to try to support your positions. Getting a bit testy there, are you! There is no definition of the term "mass shooting" with respect to qny number of deaths. The whole point I made had to do with deaths. In case you forgot. Dammit – You knew that yet you try to sleeze something by me. How do you define "sleeze" in your sentence? A mass shooting by its very nature is an incident involving multiple victims of firearm-related violence. A "mass shooting" in the context of MSM is one in which lots of people get killed sufficient to make it national news, which is, of course, when everyone starts talking about it and calling it an epidemic which, compared to the Black Plague or the more recent Spanish Flu of 1918, it is certainly not. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   16:42:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: Gatlin (#25) I am not going t spoon feed you or fall to your tactic of placing me on the defensive. If you cannot find the numbers there – Then feel free to use any of the many charts available to get the mass shooting numbers for last year. Fine. You made the claim and choose not to defend it. It is your libertarian right to do so. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   16:44:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: Gatlin (#26) Nope ... Good choice. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   16:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Pinguinite (#27) No, you CANNOT ARBITARILY use a number you selected to define a “mass shooting.” Sure I can. Then it means nothing … Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   16:47:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: Pinguinite (#1) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. As of July 31, 2019, 248 mass shootings have occurred in 2019 with 246 fatalities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_ in_2019 As of August 4, 2019, 11 lightning fatalities have occurred in 2019. https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-fatalities These numbers certainly do not show that “mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.” Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   17:41:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: Gatlin (#31) As of July 31, 2019, 248 mass shootings have occurred in 2019 with 246 fatalities. Yes, with two fewer fatalities than "mass shootings". Get a grip Gatlin. (Hey, try saying that 5 times real fast!) It's about time to put you back on bozo. Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   18:11:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: Pinguinite (#32) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. There were 25 mass killings in 2018, Mss killings claimed 140 lives in 2018. https://www.apnews.com/a027b328810d4a1cab100459b6033ecb There were 20 lightning deaths in 2018. https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-fatalities18 These numbers certainly do not show that “mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.” Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   18:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Pinguinite (#32) It's about time to put you back on bozo. Go ahead. I have more data to post for others to read ... Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   18:14:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: Gatlin (#34) Go ahead. Okay. I have more data to post for others to read ... Ooooohh... maybe I should wait! Pinguinite  posted on  2019-08-09   18:18:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: Pinguinite (#34) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. There were 117 mass killings in 2017 https://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/ There were 16 lightning-related fatalities in 2017. https://www.google.com/search? q=lightning+deaths+in+2017&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiqkom- 4vbjAhWWQc0KHckeCxkQBQgsKAA&biw=1097&bih=554 Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   18:18:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: Pinguinite (#35) Ooooohh... maybe I should wait! Good choice ... Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   18:19:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: Pinguinite (#37) (Edited) Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. There were 71 mass killings in 2016. https://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/ there were 38 lightning fatalities in 2016. https://www.google.com/search? ei=2exNXbm9JMPdtAbcn5jQBQ&q=lightning+deaths+in+2016&oq=lightning+deaths+in+20 16&gs_l=psy- ab.12..0i22i30l4.157498.158756..161534...0.0..0.90.172.2......0....1..gws- wiz.......0i71j0.nPvgH08xoMU&ved=0ahUKEwj5ja3a5PbjAhXDLs0KHdwPBloQ4dUDCAo These numbers certainly do not show that “mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.” Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   18:20:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: All, Pinguinite (#38) You said before that you could not find the data I had posted in my links. I have now posted enough researched data – with sources – to show to everyone that you were definitely WRONG when you posted : Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. I am finished thrashing you. You may now place me on bozo. So long … Gatlin  posted on  2019-08-09   18:30:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: Gatlin, Pinguinite (#24) [Pinguinite #23] … using the "mass shooting" definition of 4 or more shooting deaths from a single incident … [Gatlin #24] There is no definition of the term "mass shooting" with respect to qny number of deaths. Here is a legal definition of mass killing. "(I) the term 'mass killings' means 3 or more killings in a single incident." Public Law 112-265; 126 STAT. 2435. Carry on. https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/PLAW-112publ265/html/PLAW-112publ265.htm [112th Congress Public Law 265] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office] [[Page 126 STAT. 2435]] Public Law 112-265 112th Congress An Act To amend title 28, United States Code, to clarify the statutory authority for the longstanding practice of the Department of Justice of providing investigatory assistance on request of State and local authorities with respect to certain serious violent crimes, and for other purposes. NOTE: Jan. 14, 2013 - [H.R. 2076] Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, NOTE: Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012. 6 USC 101 note. SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. This Act may be cited as the ``Investigative Assistance for Violent Crimes Act of 2012''. SEC. 2. INVESTIGATION OF CERTAIN VIOLENT ACTS, SHOOTINGS, AND MASS KILLINGS. (a) Attorney General.--Title 28, United States Code, is amended-- (1) in section 530C(b)(1)(L)(i), by striking ``$2,000,000'' and inserting ``$3,000,000''; and (2) in section 530C(b)(1), by adding at the end the following-- ``(M)(i) At the request of an appropriate law enforcement official of a State or political subdivision, the Attorney General may assist in the investigation of violent acts and shootings occurring in a place of public use and in the investigation of mass killings and attempted mass killings. Any assistance provided under this subparagraph shall be presumed to be within the scope of Federal office or employment. ``(i) <> For purposes of this subparagraph-- ``(I) the term `mass killings' means 3 or more killings in a single incident; and ``(II) the term `place of public use' has the meaning given that term under section 2332f(e)(6) of title 18, United States Code.''. 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