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Title: Trump To Address Nation Monday Over Mass Shootings, Says More Gun Control May Be Needed
Source:
Zero Hedge
URL Source: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019 ... more-gun-control-may-be-needed
Published: Aug 4, 2019
Author: Tyler Durden
Post Date: 2019-08-05 10:44:33 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 4499
Comments: 57
In the wake of multiple mass shootings over the weekend, President Trump told reporters in Morristown Airport before departing for the White House on Sunday that "hate has no place in our country and we're going to take care of it." As The Hill reports, Congressional Democrats, 2020 presidential candidates and others have rushed to draw comparisons between the motives of the El Paso shooter and Trump’s immigration rhetoric and suggested he helped fuel the environment that led to the attack. “Let’s be very clear about what is causing this and who the president is. He is an open avowed racist and encouraging more racism in this country,” former Rep. Beto O’Rourke (D-Texas), whose hometown is El Paso, said Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union.” Notably, however, even Trump nemesis, former FBI Director, Jim Comey admitted in his latest op-ed (albeit in the 20th paragraph) that: "...according to a 'manifesto' widely attributed to him, the Texas terrorist who killed at least 20 people in El Paso on Saturday wasn’t directly motivated by Donald Trump..." The president ignored shouted questions about whether the El Paso shooter's anti-immigrant manifesto shared similarities with his rhetoric and noted instead that the shootings are part of “a mental illness problem.” The president then added that he had spoken to Attorney General William Barr, FBI Director Christopher Wray, the Ohio and Texas governors as well as members of Congress. “We have to get it stopped,” he said. “This has been going on for years, for years and years in our country.” He added that "perhaps" more needs to be done with respect to gun control. Trump added that he will deliver a formal statement on Monday at 10 a.m. Monday at the White House. On Saturday, a gunman entered an El Paso, Texas Walmart, killing 20 people and wounding 26 others. Less than 24 hours later, at least nine people were killed and 26 more injured when 24-year-old Connor Betts of Bellbrook Ohio used a .223 caliber rifle to open fire at a crowd on East 5th street in the city's popular downtown Oregon district.
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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 55.
#1. To: Deckard (#0)
Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning. You are not going to legislate away occurrances that are already extremely rare.
As of August 4, 2019, 11 lightning fatalities have occurred in 2019. These numbers certainly do not show that “mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.”
Yes, with two fewer fatalities than "mass shootings". Get a grip Gatlin. (Hey, try saying that 5 times real fast!) It's about time to put you back on bozo.
Go ahead. I have more data to post for others to read ...
Okay. Ooooohh... maybe I should wait!
Good choice ...
there were 38 lightning fatalities in 2016. These numbers certainly do not show that “mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.”
There were 38 lightning fatalities in 2016. In 2016, there were 37,806 deaths in motor vehicle accidents in America. So in 2016, you were 995 times as likely to die in a vehicle accident than by lightning. And in 2016, you were only 532 times as likely to die by a motor vehicle accident than you were to be killed in a mass shooting. Deaths by lightning are only 0.1% of the number who die in vehicle accidents. Deaths by mass shootings are only 0.19% of the number who die in vehicle accidents. We are talking about vanishingly small numbers of deaths from lightning or mass shootings. BTW, you don't have that much less chance of dying while rock climbing in America or Canada than of being struck by lightning or killed in a mass shooting. Quora: How many people die rock climbing each year? ...: I just found these 2013 numbers in a quick search. You could do comparable searches for dying by slipping in a bathtub or shower or dying by electrocution from kitchen or bathroom gadgets and you'd probably get more fatalities than from lightning or from mass shootings.
Yes, we are ... I did not bring up the subject. I only responded to a faulty analogy. Have you even known me to pass up a chance not to?
You and Neil were arguing over very very tiny percentages of annual deaths in America. Vanishingly small. I've never known a person shot in a mass shooting. I've never known 500 vehicle fatalities. And I've never known a person struck by lightning. We all generally have much better things to worry about than lightning or mass shootings. Like car accidents, heart disease, strokes and cancer. It's discouraging we allow the pols to stage these little political pillow fights on these peripheral issues that simply do not affect the vast majority of the population. It's almost like it is a deliberate tactic of the two-party duopoly to keep the peasants busy. Perhaps you recall the old Wizard Of Id comics. Strange how they dragged that one out for years.
That's actually not true. I made an observation comparing the number of deaths in "mass shootings" to those killed by lightning saying they were similar. I've made this observation elsewhere to counter the illusion put forth by gun grabbers about mass shootings being an "epidemic" and how people claim to be afraid to go shopping because there might be a mass shooting at their mall. Gatlin, I guess because he doesn't care about gun rights, decided that this was an opportunity to slam a libertarian because, you know, we libertarians are demon spawn and all, so he got on his high horse and tried to attack me by suggesting that "mass shooting" deaths were in fact far more common than lightning deaths citing some stats and seemingly assuming that a "mass shooting" was any shooting incident in which more than one bullet leaves a gun. When I pointed out the common but non-standard definition of "mass shooting" was a single shooting incident in which at least 4 people die by gunfire, he threw a hissy fit because it didn't fit his attack narrative and it was me, as a libertarian, lying and twisting stats and redefining terms and so on, because that's what we conniving demon spawn libertarians do when we are backed into a corner with no hope of escape. So the entire argument -- not a discussion or debate -- began because Gatlin, rather than addressing and agreeing with my 2rd Amendment point just wanted to score personal points in bashing a libertarian. That is all it was. TC, you are correct about the numbers of deaths due to lightning and "mass shootings" (using the more conservative definition of 4+ deaths in a single incident, or something similar to differentiate them from targeted murders and what not) are both "vanishingly small", and that is, to me, true even if one form of death is 10x more than the other if the larger number is still only a fractional sliver compared to the size of a country of 320 million, though I don't consider the MS/Lightning death ratio to be that far apart. I think I said some where the numbers were "on par" which Gatlin chose to define as "equal to" as part of his personal anti-libertarian bashing effort, but which I have always defined in that context as "on similar scale". If I meant "equal to" I would have said so. And in the "vanishing small" context I would consider even a 10x difference to be "on par" **if** both are highly unlikely to occur with any single person. I.e. I'd consider a drop of gasoline to be "on par" with 1/10th that amount absorbed by a piece of paper, but I would not consider 10 gallons of gas to be "on par" with 1 gallon. But leave it to Gatlin to ignore the pro-gun point coming from a demon-spawn libertarian and instead seize on a perceived opportunity to act out his obsessive-compulsive anti-libertarian fetish, and fall flat on his face in the process. So no, this was not really about arguing over tiny numbers. This was simply Gatlin at his most embarrassing worst. I've known of people via personal links killed by lightning, gunned down with a shotgun and killed in a car accident. None close to me though. Precisely true! Well, us libertarians are demon-spawn and must be stopped somehow. The world hangs in the balance. What good it is to restore justice, eradicate corruption and spread freedom all over the world if there is even one demonic libertarian running around demanding his right to smoke a naturally occurring plant? That was one of my favorites, though Calvin and Hobbs is, for me, the hands-down best comic of all time.
What I like about Libertarians is leave me alone and I will leave you alone. Let me live my life and you live yours. The thing I don't like about libertarian philosophy is it treats moral and immoral as equal it seems to me.
That's accurate. This I would say is a misconception. I would say that is, potentially, more applicable to atheist philosophy than libertarian philosophy. Libertarians are not necessarily atheists, and neither are libertarians anarchists. Libertarians are as likely as members of any other group to make an effort to correct injustice they see that does not directly involve them out of a sense of just wanting to do the right thing -- the libertarian version of social justice (and don't let the "social justice warrior" label typically applied to PC advocates confuse this point. Everyone, conservative or liberal believes in some form of social justice, even if there is no agreement on what type of social justice is moral). I've not looked up stats to see religious persuasion of libertarians vs R's or D's. That might be interesting.
This I would say is a misconception. Do you have a misconception, Stone? Let’s look at what is wrong with libertarianism for an answer and also find out why Ron Paul – whose worldview is of course libertarian – will not say that homosexuality is a sin. Most Christians who call themselves “Christian Libertarians” don’t really know much about the roots or true ideology of the Libertarian political philosophy. They like the idea of small government, reduced taxes, gun rights, property rights and a free-market economy. So far, so good. [Like you, Stone] I’m right there with them. The problem is in the inherent presuppositions embedded within the Libertarian worldview. One of the foundational beliefs of Libertarianism is the idea that “Anyone should be allowed to do anything they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else.” Ever heard that? That is a Libertarian conception of Freedom and Liberty. That is NOT, however, a Christian view of Liberty and Freedom. That is a view of moral bondage. For example, Thomas Jefferson said: “A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.“ Thomas Jefferson (1801)“ Or: “It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others, and the moment governmental prohibitions extend beyond this line they are in danger of defeating the very ends they are intended to serve.” Henry George The Biblical definition of the role of government is found in 1 Peter 2:13- 14: “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. “ The civil government, according to Scripture is supposed to “punish those who do wrong and commend those who do right.” How do you determine what is right or wrong in a certain society or civilization? You really only have a few options: This is where Libertarianism falls short. Ayn Rand and other Libertarians have tried to create a moral order called Objectivism. It teaches that you can have a moral law, without a Moral Law-Giver (i.e. God). Libertarianism and Objectivism (concepts that are joined at the hip) are both deeply rooted in Secular Humanism and the Epistemology of human reason alone being sufficient to determine Ethics. Despite their protests to the contrary, a pure Libertarian can never truly say that anything is Objectively right or wrong. This is why Ron Paul (whose worldview is Libertarian) will not say that homosexuality is a sin: This is where Libertarianism falls short. Ayn Rand and other Libertarians have tried to create a moral order called Objectivism. It teaches that you can have a moral law, without a Moral Law-Giver (i.e. God). Libertarianism and Objectivism (concepts that are joined at the hip) are both deeply rooted in Secular Humanism and the Epistemology of human reason alone being sufficient to determine Ethics. Despite their protests to the contrary, a pure Libertarian can never truly say that anything is Objectively right or wrong. Any political philosophy that does not begin with Theism (a belief in a personal God) as THE FOUNDATION of all Law, will end up eventually in the ditches of Totalitarianism or Anarchy. It is important to view the political spectrum depicted above as a circle. Without the restraining influence of Biblical morality in our culture, Libertarianism quickly turns into Anarchy, which then quickly leads all the way back to Totalitarianism. Anarchy is not sustainable for any society, and only order and structural rule can hold it together. Continued here.
#56. To: A K A Stone (#55)
Stone, post 55 was for you. You should have included first on the ping list in Post 55. Sorry about that ...
Thank you.
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#31. To: Pinguinite (#1)
Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.
As of July 31, 2019, 248 mass shootings have occurred in 2019 with 246 fatalities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_ in_2019
https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-fatalities
#32. To: Gatlin (#31)
As of July 31, 2019, 248 mass shootings have occurred in 2019 with 246 fatalities.
#34. To: Pinguinite (#32)
It's about time to put you back on bozo.
#35. To: Gatlin (#34)
Go ahead.
I have more data to post for others to read ...
#37. To: Pinguinite (#35)
Ooooohh... maybe I should wait!
#38. To: Pinguinite (#37)
(Edited)
Mass shooting deaths are on par with getting killed by lightning.
There were 71 mass killings in 2016.
https://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/
https://www.google.com/search? ei=2exNXbm9JMPdtAbcn5jQBQ&q=lightning+deaths+in+2016&oq=lightning+deaths+in+20 16&gs_l=psy- ab.12..0i22i30l4.157498.158756..161534...0.0..0.90.172.2......0....1..gws- wiz.......0i71j0.nPvgH08xoMU&ved=0ahUKEwj5ja3a5PbjAhXDLs0KHdwPBloQ4dUDCAo
#42. To: Gatlin, Pinguinite, nolu chan (#38)
(Edited)
There were 71 mass killings in 2016.
In 2013 there were 143 US and 11 CAN accidents reported, with 283 US and 24 CAN persons involved, 100 US and 5 CAN injuries, and 21 US and 4 CAN fatalities.
#43. To: Tooconservative (#42)
We are talking about vanishingly small numbers of deaths from lightning or mass shootings.
#45. To: Gatlin (#43)
I only responded to a faulty analogy.
#48. To: Tooconservative (#45)
You and Neil were arguing over very very tiny percentages of annual deaths in America. Vanishingly small.
I've never known a person shot in a mass shooting. I've never known 500 vehicle fatalities. And I've never known a person struck by lightning.
We all generally have much better things to worry about than lightning or mass shootings. Like car accidents, heart disease, strokes and cancer.
It's discouraging we allow the pols to stage these little political pillow fights on these peripheral issues that simply do not affect the vast majority of the population. It's almost like it is a deliberate tactic of the two-party duopoly to keep the peasants busy.
Perhaps you recall the old Wizard Of Id comics. Strange how they dragged that one out for years.
#49. To: Pinguinite (#48)
we libertarians are demon spawn and all,
#54. To: A K A Stone (#49)
What I like about Libertarians is leave me alone and I will leave you alone. Let me live my life and you live yours.
The thing I don't like about libertarian philosophy is it treats moral and immoral as equal it seems to me.
#55. To: Pinguinite (#54)
The thing I don't like about libertarian philosophy is it treats moral and immoral as equal it seems to me.
Replies to Comment # 55.
#57. To: Gatlin (#55)
End Trace Mode for Comment # 55.
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